:00:00. > :00:00.The Brexit clock is ticking, so what will the impact be
:00:00. > :00:00.on Northern Ireland, the border, our economy,
:00:00. > :00:12.We're also talking about cyclists, they often get a hard time
:00:13. > :00:26.Find out why the Fire Service is visiting this studio tonight.
:00:27. > :00:50.And it's all in front of a live studio audience.
:00:51. > :01:06.The Prime Minister Theresa May has said the process is definitely
:01:07. > :01:09.going to start by the latest in March next year.
:01:10. > :01:14.The Stormont executive is split over this as well.
:01:15. > :01:16.Let's have a look at the mixed messages that have come
:01:17. > :01:33.We will invoke article 50 no later than the end of March next year. The
:01:34. > :01:38.issue around how we will make the border work in a way that will work
:01:39. > :01:44.from both sides in terms of trade, services. She's very engaged in that
:01:45. > :01:55.issue, I'm glad to say. This is all about the internal mass of the
:01:56. > :01:58.Conservative Party. I said it won't be plain sailing, there will be
:01:59. > :02:03.bumps in the road. We should always remember that the fundamentals of
:02:04. > :02:07.the UK economy are strong. We will work to ensure that Northern
:02:08. > :02:11.Ireland's unique interests are protected and advanced. No one wants
:02:12. > :02:22.to see the return to the borders of the past. What I want to do tonight
:02:23. > :02:27.is give the political parties that are coming, the executive, the
:02:28. > :02:30.opposition, those around the table tonight, a chance to tell them what
:02:31. > :02:38.they're thinking is. What their plans actually are, for what may or
:02:39. > :02:39.may not happen. We start with the border, for example.
:02:40. > :02:42.The message we are hearing from the First Minister Arlene Foster
:02:43. > :02:45.is she doesn't wish to see a return to the borders
:02:46. > :03:13.Govan Robinson. Spell out your plan of how we control the border when
:03:14. > :03:27.we're out of Europe. The first and most important thing is all of the
:03:28. > :03:33.remain as have changed their tune. Gnabry an island, Republic of
:03:34. > :03:38.Ireland or Her Majesty's government want to see a hard border. Talk
:03:39. > :03:43.about your party's policy. I want to probe the issues. What are you going
:03:44. > :03:48.to do? What is your party's policy on controlling the border? We are
:03:49. > :03:52.engaging with the government. We have told them, we have outlined our
:03:53. > :03:56.desire that we do not want to see a return to hard borders. That is what
:03:57. > :04:02.you don't want to see. What are you going to do? We recognise that we
:04:03. > :04:05.have a common travel area. With the Irish Republic. We recognise that
:04:06. > :04:10.that existed long before the European Union. We recognise that
:04:11. > :04:17.the Irish Republic lies outside the sharing arrangements. The Irish
:04:18. > :04:20.Republic while it would remain part of European union, it is not part of
:04:21. > :04:27.the border aspirations. Will need any checks on Europe when we leave
:04:28. > :04:30.Europe? There are two issues. One about the movement of people, and
:04:31. > :04:34.the other about the movement of goods. We already collaborate with
:04:35. > :04:38.the Republic of Ireland on border controls. In fact, the United
:04:39. > :04:41.Kingdom government invests heavily both financially and with personal
:04:42. > :04:45.on how the Republic of Ireland control their borders. Where outside
:04:46. > :04:50.the Common travel area, not part of Schengen and cooperate meekly. That
:04:51. > :05:00.is what is important about the statement. What is going to look
:05:01. > :05:04.like? Very much like it will today. If it is going to look like it does
:05:05. > :05:09.today, the difference is one side of the border's going to be in Europe,
:05:10. > :05:13.and the other isn't. And both the Republic of Ireland and the United
:05:14. > :05:17.Kingdom will be outside of the Schengen area. We will not be part
:05:18. > :05:20.of those borderless regions of European Union, and we will have
:05:21. > :05:25.mutually protected borders. That's what we have at the moment, that is
:05:26. > :05:30.what we will have after Brexit. When Arlene Foster was talking about new
:05:31. > :05:35.border technology just this week, what was she talking about? That
:05:36. > :05:42.about the movement of goods, about freight. What is her idea around
:05:43. > :05:48.that, how should we control it? It is cameras, new technology. We took
:05:49. > :05:53.extensive evidence from those who are engaged, controlled. What is the
:05:54. > :06:00.cameras check? The vehicle is moving across. They check with those
:06:01. > :06:05.companies, what is in the vehicles. And the electronics... Her new
:06:06. > :06:09.camera system is going to be able to detect how many people are in these
:06:10. > :06:15.buses? I just answered you and said this is about goods. I thought you
:06:16. > :06:20.started off... You couldn't have 20 people in a goods vehicle? Well, you
:06:21. > :06:25.started this off by saying he wanted a serious discussion. It is a
:06:26. > :06:30.serious discussion. If you recognise that through mutual cooperation, our
:06:31. > :06:33.borders, a Kingdom's and the Republic of Ireland's borders
:06:34. > :06:38.outside of Schengen with mutual borders protect the country and
:06:39. > :06:41.countries when people enter. Once you have entered, you have entered
:06:42. > :06:46.on a mutually agreed system between the United Kingdom and Republic of
:06:47. > :06:55.Ireland. There already are operating a system outside of with us. They've
:06:56. > :06:58.been doing it since 1923. Padded day usually say they don't know how this
:06:59. > :07:06.will work, but we don't. We will make it work. You can say you don't
:07:07. > :07:11.want a return to the borders, but nobody can demonstrate how it will
:07:12. > :07:16.work. Schengen is about the borders on the periphery of the European
:07:17. > :07:26.Union are secured. The point is, how can you give expression and validity
:07:27. > :07:30.and then not have a hard border? Everybody, I actually believe that
:07:31. > :07:32.the London government and Dublin governments don't want the hard
:07:33. > :07:37.border, but they still can't explain. As of Sunday we see that we
:07:38. > :07:42.had going for a hard Brexit, you can see that the Irish Foreign Minister
:07:43. > :07:46.is now very worried. At least Donaldson is now talking about a
:07:47. > :07:55.special status. But you can't explain how to work. The whole point
:07:56. > :07:58.of having the border presumably is to stop people traffickers etc. And
:07:59. > :08:02.you haven't explained how to do that. The difficulty is that the
:08:03. > :08:06.Prime Minister at the week and said they would take back control of
:08:07. > :08:09.emigration. That means there won't be the same freedom of movement in
:08:10. > :08:13.terms of UK as there is with European Union. That has to be
:08:14. > :08:17.controls and means I would rather that wasn't the case. Once the Prime
:08:18. > :08:20.Minister makes it clear will have a different freedom of movement resume
:08:21. > :08:28.from the rest of European Union, that has to be policed. Gavin is in
:08:29. > :08:31.denial of that point. There will be a different immigration policy in
:08:32. > :08:37.the Republic of Ireland and a different immigration policy...
:08:38. > :08:41.Dealing current people to leave Europe whose green I'm delighted
:08:42. > :08:52.that we are leaving the European Union. One is a passport border, and
:08:53. > :08:57.the other is a Customs border, affecting how goods move. We have
:08:58. > :09:01.never had a passport border. And we don't need to have a passport
:09:02. > :09:06.border, because since 1923, long before the EU, the whole British
:09:07. > :09:10.Isles was covered by the Common travel area. Which means whatever
:09:11. > :09:13.point you arrive at in the British Isles as your point of entry, you
:09:14. > :09:18.present your passport and you don't present it again. Now, how does that
:09:19. > :09:22.fit in with stopping free movement of Labour? Very simply. It's nothing
:09:23. > :09:26.to do with passports, it's to do with work permits. -- free movement
:09:27. > :09:34.of labour. We're not stopping tourists coming in. We are stopping
:09:35. > :09:40.people when we control our own immigration in respect of work by a
:09:41. > :09:44.work permit system. That is not the message sent out in the referendum.
:09:45. > :09:49.It was control our borders, stop people getting into the country!
:09:50. > :09:57.That is what the message was. That is done by work permits. What you're
:09:58. > :10:03.saying is they can get into the country. They can't work. And they
:10:04. > :10:08.can't draw benefits. And account rent a house. And they can't do any
:10:09. > :10:15.of the things that would cause us... How are illegal immigrants doing it
:10:16. > :10:19.all now? We have a total absence of control. No mechanisms of control. I
:10:20. > :10:24.think it's very important we deal with... You are relying on, you're
:10:25. > :10:28.happy with illegal immigrants coming into the country. The borders are so
:10:29. > :10:38.poor as we have no controls, but once they are in you are relying on
:10:39. > :10:41.us being able to stay stop them working, landlords to Tenormin.
:10:42. > :10:48.Becomes illegal to work without a work permit -- to turn them in. And
:10:49. > :10:54.you're denied benefits because you shouldn't be here, and you are
:10:55. > :10:59.denied a house, there will be no incentive to come. And therefore, we
:11:00. > :11:06.will only have coming in, those who are going to contribute. Because you
:11:07. > :11:15.have no controls now! Those who have something economic to contribute...
:11:16. > :11:21.Or where doing is turning legal in immigration into illegal
:11:22. > :11:27.immigration. -- all we are doing. Hold on now. Not shouting tonight,
:11:28. > :11:31.please. The point here is that the Leave campaign said they wanted
:11:32. > :11:35.control back of borders. I was not bothered by immigration, but I think
:11:36. > :11:39.they contribute a lot to society. What they are now saying is that
:11:40. > :11:46.simply immigration is going to continue, except that what was
:11:47. > :11:53.previously Eagle will now become illegal. It will be control. You
:11:54. > :11:56.will only be accepted if you're filling a vacancy that there isn't a
:11:57. > :12:02.local person to fill and therefore there is purpose and point in having
:12:03. > :12:06.you there. In Dublin, travel north into UK. I want you to have a look
:12:07. > :12:09.at what was happening this week. Not for the first time, but have a look
:12:10. > :12:17.at what was happening this week on the border. Look at that. What's the
:12:18. > :12:21.context? It is checkpoints, checking people's identity going across the
:12:22. > :12:26.border. What's the context? Who's doing it? There's a prison van that,
:12:27. > :12:32.what is the context of the control? What is the purpose of the police
:12:33. > :12:39.being the? Of their some illegal workers. They were checking
:12:40. > :12:50.everyone's identity. Are you sure, have you got any kind of word from
:12:51. > :12:58.the Garda that there won't be those checks? Nobody in politics Ivanov of
:12:59. > :13:03.the border or south of the border wants to see a return to hard border
:13:04. > :13:08.is -- in politics north of the border. They were asking for
:13:09. > :13:15.identification this week. They're asking for identification. We get
:13:16. > :13:22.checkpoints for a myriad of criminal justice reasons. What you are saying
:13:23. > :13:25.of what you will ensure happens, will it not actually be for the
:13:26. > :13:30.European Union to decide how the southern government need to control
:13:31. > :13:34.the border? Would they not have do comply with EU policy? There already
:13:35. > :13:41.sit outside it, they are not part of Schengen. Freedom of movement is one
:13:42. > :13:43.of the core points of the European Union. The European Union set up
:13:44. > :14:01.their principles. They are not bound by the rules. Go
:14:02. > :14:07.ahead. Hi. How are you is going to maintain the cost to go from the
:14:08. > :14:18.north to the South? How are people going to be safe going into the
:14:19. > :14:23.opposite to do their shopping? I think the currency exchange will
:14:24. > :14:29.attract them. I see no impediment to it and nor do I want to see any
:14:30. > :14:34.impediment to it. I think the cross-border relationship is hugely
:14:35. > :14:38.important. Do you think it will change? Back in the day, people used
:14:39. > :14:47.get their shopping check that the checkpoints. That is about security.
:14:48. > :14:55.Not regular borders. There will have to be checks on the movement of
:14:56. > :15:07.goods. If the EU imposes tariffs. Of course there will be carrots. --
:15:08. > :15:11.Carys. First of all, the UK will be outside of the single market. I
:15:12. > :15:14.think it is a disaster. You think it will be good. There will have to be
:15:15. > :15:18.a difference in terms of trading policy that will have to be policed.
:15:19. > :15:22.Let's bear in mind that people work on both sides of the border and
:15:23. > :15:30.businesses are organised on a cross-border basis. Our food sector
:15:31. > :15:34.is closely linked to the Republic. There would only be a Customs border
:15:35. > :15:44.if either party, either the EU or the UK imposed Carys. Now, why would
:15:45. > :15:48.that happen? In circumstances where the EU sells a ?70 billion worth
:15:49. > :15:54.more every year than we sell them. Are they going to cut off their nose
:15:55. > :15:57.to spite their face to direct tariffs against our goods, knowing
:15:58. > :16:05.that they depend more on selling to us than we sell to them? How long
:16:06. > :16:08.will it take us to do the deal? We have two years to do the deal. It is
:16:09. > :16:13.very much in the interest of the EU to do the deal because of the simple
:16:14. > :16:17.economic reality. They sell more to us than we sell to them. It is as
:16:18. > :16:21.simple and elementary as that in those who try to say that means
:16:22. > :16:25.Customs, double meaning customers if the EU decides a moment of madness
:16:26. > :16:31.that they are going to make it harder for us to sell to our primary
:16:32. > :16:34.market that we sell so much to. There are 30,000 people who cross
:16:35. > :16:38.the border every day for work and we have not explained how they will be
:16:39. > :16:44.able to get to work on time. The fact is, I strongly suspected border
:16:45. > :16:49.will be around this Ireland. So all that is what we are getting here.
:16:50. > :16:53.The whole point is that if there is goods, the fact is we are outside of
:16:54. > :16:56.the EU and there will be price differentials. There will be tariffs
:16:57. > :17:00.and there will be people either legally or illegally... Of course
:17:01. > :17:04.there will be tariffs. I will explain if you will let me. The
:17:05. > :17:07.whole point is we are in the single market, we are in the club and we
:17:08. > :17:11.accept the rights and responsibilities. If we say we do
:17:12. > :17:16.not want any of the bad stuff, we want to pick and choose, Europe has
:17:17. > :17:21.made very clear. Why would they give everyone in the union a preferential
:17:22. > :17:29.rate? But despite us giving them two fingers... Eyelid is like to say to
:17:30. > :17:36.Jim and Gavin that I was appointed in your party Bosman decision not to
:17:37. > :17:40.take part in the all Ireland Forum. Unfortunately, Northern Ireland will
:17:41. > :17:43.not be top of the UK Government's and is during the negotiations so
:17:44. > :17:47.don't you think it would be a good idea to have another ally in the
:17:48. > :17:52.Irish Government pushing on the EU side for our special circumstances?
:17:53. > :17:55.The second point is a fair one. If you have the Republic of Ireland,
:17:56. > :17:59.who have a shared interest in the border and they are going to be
:18:00. > :18:07.making decisions that affect us then of course that makes sense. But do
:18:08. > :18:17.we here in Northern Ireland executive... In the north - South
:18:18. > :18:24.ministerial Council. We see nothing further to gain. We are fully
:18:25. > :18:28.engaged in these discussions. We are fully engaged with the Republic of
:18:29. > :18:37.Ireland Government and with the UK Government. OK. I want to keep
:18:38. > :18:41.moving the sun. Emigration is obviously a big issue for many in
:18:42. > :18:49.the referendum. It is a big, big issue. What is net immigration into
:18:50. > :18:56.Northern Ireland? Is it high? Is it now? What I know is from some of the
:18:57. > :19:00.issues we have had in east Belfast around racist attacks is that the
:19:01. > :19:08.fear about immigration isn't as high as the reality. It is 2000. So do
:19:09. > :19:14.you think it should be lower than that are higher than that? Fair
:19:15. > :19:21.enough, you do not know. It is 2000. Does that sound reasonable? The
:19:22. > :19:29.quantum isn't on the issue. The need is the issue. So if we get... One of
:19:30. > :19:36.the big messages was immigration in the referendum. The point is, do we
:19:37. > :19:42.need 2000 more in our economy to work? If we needed 500 and got 2000,
:19:43. > :19:51.are we creating a burden for society? What is the assessment of
:19:52. > :19:56.the DUP of how much we do need? We have not got a figure. It is about
:19:57. > :20:00.need. It is that the demands for public service. Do we need more or
:20:01. > :20:09.less? Do we sufficiently provide those who work and build our economy
:20:10. > :20:13.from our own indigenous population? You're looking very confident about
:20:14. > :20:18.this but what is the plan of the SDLP. You need to be a Government in
:20:19. > :20:22.waiting if you are in opposition in terms of encouraging local people to
:20:23. > :20:27.take up those jobs which immigrants are doing. What is the plan? We
:20:28. > :20:31.currently have the worst economic activity figures in the whole of the
:20:32. > :20:34.UK. Absolutely. The fact is that we have just about net immigration
:20:35. > :20:37.because young people are leaving because they do not feel that the
:20:38. > :20:41.jobs and opportunities that they want all year and we need to address
:20:42. > :20:45.that. Attitudes like other people are not well, not going to help.
:20:46. > :20:49.Yes, we agree. We do not think the training is in place. We have asked
:20:50. > :20:52.for more investment and we do not think we have the right conditions
:20:53. > :20:55.for high-quality 21st century jobs to come here. And we're been
:20:56. > :21:00.campaigning on exactly that but if we just, to pick back up on
:21:01. > :21:11.immigration, everything that we feared has come to pass here. Amber
:21:12. > :21:13.Rod -- Amber Rudd has said that company should be named and shamed
:21:14. > :21:19.if they use foreign workers. Liam Fox has said that they do not know
:21:20. > :21:24.what to do about foreign workers. You are mentioning Amber Rudd and
:21:25. > :21:29.Liam Fox to these people. Sinn Fein and DUP are doing quite well and
:21:30. > :21:34.these -- you are having to go to Amber Rudd. One day end and this
:21:35. > :21:39.executive have written a letter and they did not get a reply. They wrote
:21:40. > :21:43.it six weeks ago. If you asked me to fix your streetlight and I came back
:21:44. > :21:47.six weeks ago and said that I wrote a letter and they did not reply, I
:21:48. > :21:54.would be letting you down. There is no plan. We have met the British
:21:55. > :21:57.Government continually. I can assure you that in the discussions that we
:21:58. > :22:06.have had since, whether it was the Prime Minister yesterday in
:22:07. > :22:10.Birmingham, whether it was the Secretary of State for leaving the
:22:11. > :22:13.EU, whether it was Liam Fox, we are fully engaged. But your partners in
:22:14. > :22:18.Government, Martin McGuinness, say that we are on a collision course
:22:19. > :22:23.for collateral damage. Martin McGuinness has also said that he has
:22:24. > :22:30.to recognise the decision to leave the EU and he will implement its.
:22:31. > :22:33.There is a problem here. The executive is pulling into different
:22:34. > :22:37.directions. One that foolishly wants to remain in does not accept the
:22:38. > :22:43.outcome. One that says we are going and let school. And that's why I am
:22:44. > :22:47.so delighted that this negotiation doesn't rest with the executive. As
:22:48. > :22:50.the Prime Minister made very clear, we joined the EU as one nation and
:22:51. > :22:57.we leave as one nation and the British Government, the sovereign
:22:58. > :23:04.Government will do the negotiation. Into the audience. Yes, go ahead.
:23:05. > :23:07.When we were in the EU, we did not have control over our laws. Now we
:23:08. > :23:14.have the chance to have control of our laws and build the economy. On
:23:15. > :23:27.immigration, I think it is a good idea. Certain cultures don't mix
:23:28. > :23:34.well? Is long, yes. -- is long, yes. I think when you look at those
:23:35. > :23:40.middle eastern countries. -- Islam. They make them worthy burqa and
:23:41. > :23:48.stuff. Have you seen much of that in Northern Ireland? We are doing a
:23:49. > :23:54.good job of treating people in Northern Ireland extremely well. Why
:23:55. > :24:01.should be any shame in a Government saying our priority is to provide
:24:02. > :24:09.jobs for our own people? Why should there be any shame in saying that?
:24:10. > :24:15.And those who live in the UK... And when we cannot... No one is
:24:16. > :24:22.suggesting that we grow immigrants out. We are drawing the line... Liam
:24:23. > :24:29.Fox says they are upon this to be traded. The moment we leave, those
:24:30. > :24:34.who have citizenship have citizenship, but thereafter, we as
:24:35. > :24:39.the UK decide if we need a certain quality of work and can't provide
:24:40. > :24:45.it, we bring it in. What is wrong with that. We know the net
:24:46. > :24:50.immigration figures. How many do you think we need? Whatever they can see
:24:51. > :25:01.that we cannot fill. Pseudo- toy figure? So you do not know a figure?
:25:02. > :25:10.Why cant you assess this? We know the figure across the UK is 300,000.
:25:11. > :25:14.You're not here to represent the UK. I am absolutely proud to be part of
:25:15. > :25:21.the UK. So should you be. Because it looks after you very well. The key
:25:22. > :25:33.thing about this is contoured. Why should a nation not control its own
:25:34. > :25:38.immigration? I want to move on because we are talking about the --
:25:39. > :25:42.the economy and I think we can agree that one of the big building blocks
:25:43. > :25:46.that we have said is going to put a rocket under this economy is the
:25:47. > :25:50.potential for us to have corporation tax at such an attractive rate that
:25:51. > :25:56.other companies will want to set up shop here. And what the agreement
:25:57. > :26:01.has been is that we will do is corporation tax to 12.5%. So lets
:26:02. > :26:05.hypothesise here. We have a big European business and they say that
:26:06. > :26:20.they like that. And they go to speak to some of Hamilton, -- Simon
:26:21. > :26:24.Hamilton, our economy minister. Here is the important question. A big
:26:25. > :26:28.European business says to him, what is the trading relationship going to
:26:29. > :26:33.be with the EU? What is he currently able to say? Well, if they come now,
:26:34. > :26:39.the trading relationship is as it is. They are interested in the
:26:40. > :26:47.future. He voted for us to leave, so if corporation tax... Even if the
:26:48. > :26:54.forecast is different, they will make a colossal killing just on the
:26:55. > :27:00.currency situation. And we will be free of the EU bureaucracy. He has
:27:01. > :27:11.to say, I don't know what the trading bullish on chip will be. --
:27:12. > :27:16.what the trading situation will be. If we do not have a free trade with
:27:17. > :27:30.the EU, then we fall back to the world trade organisations figures.
:27:31. > :27:38.Where there is a 40% tariff? There is not 40%. You do not automatically
:27:39. > :27:46.go to 40% tariffs. I am talking about for farming in Derry. Do you
:27:47. > :27:55.know our manufacturing exports? Where is our biggest market? You
:27:56. > :27:58.tell me. Great Britain. The Irish public is 1.4. What we do have the
:27:59. > :28:01.best of the world, where all of these trade issues apparent, paid
:28:02. > :28:07.more to the rest of the world outside of the U, this little
:28:08. > :28:18.province of Northern Ireland traits more than double and what we do with
:28:19. > :28:26.Irish but the? What is the EU's extra tariff? Let's look at how
:28:27. > :28:36.important farming is to us here. Have a look at some of these
:28:37. > :28:49.statistics here on farming. In 2015, we have these figures.
:28:50. > :28:59.It is British taxpayer's money Centre Brussels, siphoned off and
:29:00. > :29:04.sent back, that tribute. -- sent to Brussels, siphoned off and sent
:29:05. > :29:10.back, we are a net contributor. What about the promise that it would be
:29:11. > :29:13.sent to the NHS? What about farmers Omnibus posters? I didn't write the
:29:14. > :29:21.posters, but I'm telling you duality. Let's talk about the iron
:29:22. > :29:31.mask, who told us we would be bussed. -- let us talk about the
:29:32. > :29:42.IMF. To return to the matter. EU farming in incomes, guaranteed until
:29:43. > :29:47.2020. Within the EU, it is not guaranteed one day after that.
:29:48. > :29:51.Because it's into a new financial cycle. The UK Government has
:29:52. > :29:58.guaranteed to match it right up to that point. Thereafter, we will be
:29:59. > :30:03.able to share in the ?10 billion windfall that comes from leaving the
:30:04. > :30:12.EU and to look after our own farmers and their needs. Far better to do it
:30:13. > :30:19.ourselves to suck than to siphon it off. I'm learning about this as we
:30:20. > :30:26.speak. There are fun payments made by the EU to farmers. -- there are
:30:27. > :30:30.single payments. Can you guarantee that farmers will get at least that
:30:31. > :30:34.same level of money? I can guarantee because the British government has
:30:35. > :30:40.committed to it, that until 2020 it is guaranteed. What happens after
:30:41. > :30:48.2020? After 2020 and inside the EU there is no guarantee, because we
:30:49. > :30:52.are working... After that, there will be ?10 billion to be shared. It
:30:53. > :30:56.won't be shared, it's all going to the NHS. It will be going to need
:30:57. > :31:00.including those of farmers. The agriculture minister in the UK has
:31:01. > :31:06.made that clear. Here is another issue. If we look at how important
:31:07. > :31:12.agriculture is to the UK, someone sitting in England to the government
:31:13. > :31:18.over there, where obviously their votes are a lot more them than here.
:31:19. > :31:22.It represents 1% of their economy, so agriculture is not as important
:31:23. > :31:28.to them as it is here. Would you like it to be a devolved matter?
:31:29. > :31:32.Agriculture? In terms of funding for farmers. Would you like that to be
:31:33. > :31:36.devolved. The British government could say we're putting it into the
:31:37. > :31:41.block grant, you can decide how you will distribute it. Would you like
:31:42. > :31:44.that? That is predicated on the British government not doing what is
:31:45. > :31:48.in the best interests of our farmers. What you're asking me to
:31:49. > :31:52.expect is that we will fail. Would you like a parser that you can
:31:53. > :31:58.guarantee it, rather than relying on Amber Rudd and Theresa May. Would
:31:59. > :32:03.you like Arlene Foster and your party to have that devolved power?
:32:04. > :32:09.First of all, I said you are predicating it on failure. Secondly,
:32:10. > :32:15.we have devolved powers for agriculture in this country. The
:32:16. > :32:24.Barnett Formula suits Northern Ireland incredibly well. It wouldn't
:32:25. > :32:28.in agriculture. Let him finish. So there's going to be a new spent on
:32:29. > :32:34.agriculture whenever this money comes back from the European Union.
:32:35. > :32:38.That gives us 3%, not 1%. 3% of any new spend to Northern Ireland as a
:32:39. > :32:43.consequence is the Barnett Formula. We have agriculture devolved. We
:32:44. > :32:51.have the ability and the power, just like I have to say the announcement
:32:52. > :32:56.that she was bringing forward payments, advance payments, 95% by
:32:57. > :33:01.the end of the year... You would or wouldn't like the power? I'm just
:33:02. > :33:12.giving an example of devolution. 3% of the money under the Barnett
:33:13. > :33:16.Formula. We cannot match what we currently get under the European
:33:17. > :33:20.Union formula. That is the challenge. I'm asking you this
:33:21. > :33:24.question because you're in the executive, you have the controlling
:33:25. > :33:28.power with Sinn Fein. Can you give no matter what way it happens, can
:33:29. > :33:32.you give an undertaking to farmers tonight who may be considering
:33:33. > :33:34.investing in plants, machinery, whatever they are worried about
:33:35. > :33:38.their future. Can you give them an undertaking that they will not be
:33:39. > :33:41.getting any less of a subsidy that is equivalent to the single foreign
:33:42. > :33:45.payment than they are currently getting? That is the commitment the
:33:46. > :33:50.British government have given this far. Are not asking the British
:33:51. > :33:54.government, I'm asking the DUP. Can you give a commitment? I thought you
:33:55. > :34:00.said you wanted a serious conversation. That is the promise
:34:01. > :34:07.the British governed have given. Can you give them a commitment, Sir? Can
:34:08. > :34:14.you give the farmers tonight a commitment at that their income that
:34:15. > :34:19.in terms of income once we leave Europe. There has never been a
:34:20. > :34:25.circumstance where farmers have not been protected. They were before the
:34:26. > :34:29.European Union was created, and will be after we leave. No one in my
:34:30. > :34:36.party or the Stormont executive will damage what is a key part of our
:34:37. > :34:42.economy. OK. Very quickly. What makes Northern Ireland in the best
:34:43. > :34:46.interest of the Northern Ireland to keep -- of the British government to
:34:47. > :34:53.keep since we are so expensive? Could expel the end of the UK? The
:34:54. > :34:56.UK is four nations, the Prime Minister has been stressing it
:34:57. > :35:02.again. It is the unity of those nations that is the United Kingdom.
:35:03. > :35:07.Pretty offensive by someone who is supposed to be the guarantor and
:35:08. > :35:10.mediating here, to call people divisive nationalists, given that it
:35:11. > :35:21.was divisive English nationalism that got us here. Do you ever? We
:35:22. > :35:31.believe that Northern Ireland, Scotland... Give them a round of
:35:32. > :35:39.applause, thank you. We'll be containing the debate after
:35:40. > :35:48.the show on Twitter and Facebook. And not forgetting my Radio Ulster
:35:49. > :36:01.show tomorrow morning, It's 9am, it is the Nolan show on
:36:02. > :36:07.BBC radio Ulster. Let's see who is on line one. I couldn't believe how
:36:08. > :36:13.dirty they were. You'll have to tell me what you mean by that. That is
:36:14. > :36:17.absolutely disgraceful, inflammatory language. I thought you were up to
:36:18. > :36:21.speed! You don't even know what's going on around you. We have to
:36:22. > :36:23.pinch yourself this morning when you think that Northern Ireland's now
:36:24. > :36:35.national news because of a kick. If you remember anything from this
:36:36. > :36:40.programme tonight, it is this segment I want you to remember. Look
:36:41. > :36:45.at this. You think this couldn't be in your home? It could. It is a
:36:46. > :36:52.dishwasher that is completely gone on fire. Hello, good to see you.
:36:53. > :36:55.700 fires in the last three years in Northern Ireland have been caused
:36:56. > :36:58.by electrical equipment like tumble dryers, chargers and a dishwasher
:36:59. > :37:03.The message here that you're coming here tonight to tell us is that
:37:04. > :37:06.these things should not be left on overnight. Why not? That is the
:37:07. > :37:11.message we are trying to get across tonight. What I really like to is
:37:12. > :37:15.this hasn't been set up. This is a real dishwasher, a real fire that
:37:16. > :37:18.occurred in June this year. The family escaped from their home
:37:19. > :37:21.safely because they had a smoke alarm in place. The smoke alarm was
:37:22. > :37:26.tested and working, and working, and they had a fire escape plan in
:37:27. > :37:29.place. I understand if you have a 20-year-old appliance and you're not
:37:30. > :37:34.leaving it all night. You're saying don't leave brand-new, electrical
:37:35. > :37:36.goods on overnight. Washing machines, tumble dryers. In June
:37:37. > :37:43.going to the shop on the run on. This is what people do. That is what
:37:44. > :37:46.we trying to say, don't do the risk. Imagine what would've happened to
:37:47. > :37:50.that family of the fire alarm hadn't worked. Last year, 12 people have
:37:51. > :37:56.lost their lives. We could easily be looking at 14 people. For me, you
:37:57. > :38:00.don't leave these things on, run to the shop, that's scary because I do.
:38:01. > :38:04.Here is another example. Extension needs. I have these in my house. You
:38:05. > :38:10.don't think that the court should be tangled? Again, it is fire safety
:38:11. > :38:13.awareness week. You can see a fire started in the middle of this
:38:14. > :38:17.extension cable. It is used for a long period without this being
:38:18. > :38:21.disconnected. We have lots of simple fire safety advice on our website.
:38:22. > :38:24.That is all right, but you do know the vast majority of us have these
:38:25. > :38:29.tangled? We're trying to get the message across. This starts real
:38:30. > :38:34.fires. You're telling me you do the same thing? I do, this is behind my
:38:35. > :38:38.curtains all tangled up. Versus a fire risk? The more I talk to you
:38:39. > :38:44.tonight, the more I think we need to get our Chris at your house to check
:38:45. > :38:50.it out! Will have a look up here. This is very interesting. A chip pan
:38:51. > :38:57.fire in your home. People have lost their lives again, sadly, through
:38:58. > :39:02.this. Over the last you're years, 2500 fires in Northern Ireland. The
:39:03. > :39:06.biggest cause is cooking and cooking fires. We will leave a chip pan
:39:07. > :39:10.unattended and left overnight. What we're trying to convey to you at
:39:11. > :39:14.home is if this happens, get out of the house, don't try to put it out
:39:15. > :39:17.yourself. Because if you throw water on it, what will happen? You will
:39:18. > :39:27.see what will happen in a minute. For the last three years, 182 chip
:39:28. > :39:29.pan fires in Northern Ireland. Two people have lost their lives in the
:39:30. > :39:32.last few years. People think it doesn't happen any more, but it
:39:33. > :39:36.does. Chip pan fires are still happening today. What we'll do here
:39:37. > :39:48.is take the lid off this. Correct? Let us get the lid off it. This
:39:49. > :39:52.would be... Sometimes they are temperamental. Sometimes takes a bit
:39:53. > :40:01.of time, but it normally catches fire. Letters to see if it catches
:40:02. > :40:05.fire. -- let us see. What we want this to do is start catching fire,
:40:06. > :40:09.and then we will show you. That is what happens when you leave it
:40:10. > :40:14.unattended. If you try to put the fire at yourself, just watch. You
:40:15. > :40:17.will probably be wrongly throwing a bucket of water on it. This is a
:40:18. > :40:24.little glass of water. Watch what happens. Picture that in a small
:40:25. > :40:29.kitchen. Picture what that would look like the person who has just
:40:30. > :40:40.done it. You'd be dead. The fire would rapidly spread to house. Our
:40:41. > :40:45.campaign is smoke alarms, know the causes of fires, have a fire escape
:40:46. > :40:49.plan in place. Thank you for coming in tonight. Let us have a look at
:40:50. > :40:53.this one more time, in case you haven't got this in your head. Look,
:40:54. > :41:00.there it goes. That could be your home. Look at that. He was the
:41:01. > :41:07.bottom line: don't let that be your home. Don't let it happen. Thank you
:41:08. > :41:10.for joining us on BBC One tonight. We appreciate you getting involved
:41:11. > :41:15.in all the debates on Twitter and Facebook. The next item is about
:41:16. > :41:19.Facebook. It isn't about Facebook, it's about cyclists. We'll debated
:41:20. > :41:20.in the studio after we find out how Vinnie has been getting some of the
:41:21. > :41:38.thoughts of people on the streets. We're asking people about cyclists.
:41:39. > :41:43.A disgrace. How do you find the attitude from motorists soared
:41:44. > :41:48.cyclists? Aggressive, not good. With a shout out, get yourself off the
:41:49. > :41:53.road. They cause problems. When you're in the bus lanes. One
:41:54. > :41:57.cyclist, it defeats the purpose of a bus lane. Wherever I go to red
:41:58. > :42:03.light, I go into the pedestrian zone and cross at the green light.
:42:04. > :42:12.Whether pedestrians are meant to be? DC many cyclists in north Belfast
:42:13. > :42:15.they shouldn't be on the road, they don't pay tax, is the perception.
:42:16. > :42:22.What you say to people who think that? I have a husband like that,
:42:23. > :42:27.don't put that on television! Why should Stephen get on his bike?
:42:28. > :42:45.There is no bike made for him! You like that dig at me, didn't you?
:42:46. > :42:50.I would love to say something back, but I wouldn't get away with it on
:42:51. > :42:51.the BBC. Thank you, my dear licence fee payer for that comment about me.
:42:52. > :42:54.So do motorists and pedestrians unfairly give cyclists a hard time?
:42:55. > :42:57.Or should cyclists get on their bike and be more considerate
:42:58. > :43:03.Joining me is the commentator Malachi O'Doherty, a keen cyclist.
:43:04. > :43:15.I'm surprised you're not in your lycra! I thought you should know the
:43:16. > :43:24.full experience. What is that? What is that? It's what we were on our
:43:25. > :43:30.long journeys. This is bum comfort, essentially. That you'll be taken
:43:31. > :43:34.out and put down humanely. Don't touch his bum comfort! It's a
:43:35. > :43:40.reinforced gusset. This is what the modern cyclist wears to get full
:43:41. > :43:44.comfort in the cycle. You were the one who raised the subject of lycra.
:43:45. > :44:01.You wouldn't be their biggest fan? I live with the cyclist so I do see
:44:02. > :44:06.the value of cycling. The problem is that the infrastructure doesn't
:44:07. > :44:11.exist for motorists and cyclists to cohabit safely and all I want is for
:44:12. > :44:14.everyone to be safe, but the other problem is that because cyclists are
:44:15. > :44:19.more vulnerable because they are smaller and more exposed, in a lot
:44:20. > :44:22.of cyclists, not all, some of them cycle with a sense of entitlement.
:44:23. > :44:29.They weave through the traffic, they cut the red lights, someone nearly
:44:30. > :44:34.knocked a lady over when she was crossing at the pedestrian crossing
:44:35. > :44:39.and cyclists are not registered, you can't identify them, they do not
:44:40. > :44:44.have an MOT and they can zip off. If I cut a red light, I get a notice to
:44:45. > :44:50.the post and tell me. Just watch a clip that we found a guy who was
:44:51. > :44:55.cycling in the store a pedestrian about to cross at the zebra
:44:56. > :45:06.crossing. The pedestrian was not pleased. Have a look at this. This
:45:07. > :45:12.was last week. There is the pedestrian. He stops him and he is
:45:13. > :45:16.teaching that cyclist a lesson. Well, the behaviour of the cyclist
:45:17. > :45:21.was appalling. Cyclists are angels. There is no moral qualification that
:45:22. > :45:30.comes with having a bicycle. It does not make you a better person. It is
:45:31. > :45:35.appalling when they are riding down a road to a breast and they are
:45:36. > :45:39.holding 30 cars behind them. That is the sense of entitlement. That is
:45:40. > :45:47.the advice of the Highway code for their own safety. No, it's not. I
:45:48. > :45:52.have this phrase now. Ask Rosie. Inspectors Rosie has told the show
:45:53. > :45:56.that if a cyclist is riding two abreast on a busy road, that they
:45:57. > :46:04.should pull over into single file and let the car passed. Well, it
:46:05. > :46:10.happens to me. Now, I shout out that Rosie says to pull over. Rosie also
:46:11. > :46:15.said that a motorist should be giving a metre and a half to a
:46:16. > :46:19.cyclist. A cyclist takes up as much room on the road as a car does
:46:20. > :46:23.because if a cyclist is knocked over, you flop over and that is the
:46:24. > :46:29.space you need to survive. So Rosie said this and you know Rosie said
:46:30. > :46:34.this. A metre and they have space. Rosie did the say that. What is your
:46:35. > :46:39.view on the cyclists going two abreast with 30 cars behind? You're
:46:40. > :46:42.trying to go home at night and there they are and they may be losing
:46:43. > :46:52.calories and it is great. Oh, come on. And there we legs are going. If
:46:53. > :46:59.I was riding two abreast with a friend or whether Angela on the road
:47:00. > :47:03.and we were in that situation, I would make a judgment about whether
:47:04. > :47:06.it was safe will stop if we were on a winding road for instance and what
:47:07. > :47:09.I being asked to do is to move over to the curb and go single file to
:47:10. > :47:14.leave enough room for a car to squeeze past at my jeopardy, then I
:47:15. > :47:20.will not do that. I am entitled to space on delaying. You are right.
:47:21. > :47:24.You are entitled to be safe. But also the Highway code, the
:47:25. > :47:28.guidelines suggest that you have to cycle in the way that affords you
:47:29. > :47:32.most the safety, even though you're not supposed to cycle on the
:47:33. > :47:36.pavement. If it is safer for you to get onto the pavement, then you are
:47:37. > :47:39.advised to do that. The problem is there is no parity in the statute in
:47:40. > :47:43.the law between protection for the motorist and protection for the
:47:44. > :47:48.cyclist, so even though cyclists, not all of them, if they do
:47:49. > :47:56.something stupid, it is the motorist who copped it because... That is the
:47:57. > :48:03.most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Can we put this somewhere
:48:04. > :48:09.else? They are putting me off my stride. Don't be like one of those
:48:10. > :48:12.militant cyclists. If you hit a car, God forbid you will come off worse
:48:13. > :48:17.and the statute will immediately look at the way the driver was
:48:18. > :48:23.driving. You should see how some drivers do drive. Thanks to Johnny
:48:24. > :48:27.Bell from the Belfast Telegraph, he has been recording some footage.
:48:28. > :48:31.Where are you, Johnny? There you up. How long have you been recording
:48:32. > :48:36.this for? Probably about three years or so. Will we have a look at what
:48:37. > :48:54.you have captured? Let's have a look at this.
:48:55. > :49:19.That was close, that van. Was he in a bus lane? And is that a regular
:49:20. > :49:24.experience? It would be regular, yes. Well, it comes and goes. It
:49:25. > :49:30.happens quite a lot. That is why got the camera for my protection. And so
:49:31. > :49:38.what do you think? Do you think that the balance is right? You yourself
:49:39. > :49:41.say where is the parity, where is the statute? But when the two come
:49:42. > :49:48.together, there is only ever one winner on the road. That is the
:49:49. > :49:55.problem. Embarrassingly, I admit on television that I did have -- I did
:49:56. > :50:00.hit a car on my bike and I paid the money and sorted it out. You are a
:50:01. > :50:04.fine young man for doing that. Equally, it has been documented in
:50:05. > :50:08.the had been stories in the press where cyclists have misbehaved and
:50:09. > :50:12.they have shot off and you cannot apprehend them because there is
:50:13. > :50:16.nothing to identify them. There is nothing... And the other problem is
:50:17. > :50:21.there are a lot of cycle paths around but not a lot of cyclists are
:50:22. > :50:24.using them because cyclists do get impatient in traffic. They have the
:50:25. > :50:31.upper hand in terms of being able to weave around because. Guy with a
:50:32. > :50:34.beard. Go ahead. Particularly rural country roads, I find cyclists,
:50:35. > :50:39.especially groups of them when you are coming up in the car and they go
:50:40. > :50:42.out, I believe it is a serious hazard for a motorist. If you are
:50:43. > :50:46.trying to overtake them and you're having doubled back and then you're
:50:47. > :50:49.holding up the traffic. Essentially what they are doing is trying to
:50:50. > :50:54.protect themselves. They are taking up the wall wrote so you won't try
:50:55. > :50:59.to do a manoeuvre past them. What is wrong with that? But you're keeping
:51:00. > :51:04.the traffic behind you then add it could be dangerous the rest of the
:51:05. > :51:07.time. We do have a group of cyclist, particularly in a cycling club, it
:51:08. > :51:12.could be very dangerous for a motorist. I think there is a lot of
:51:13. > :51:16.impatience and roads rage. Everybody is very stressed. We are living in
:51:17. > :51:20.difficult times. There is a lot of agitation for the motorist as well.
:51:21. > :51:23.And that creates a hazard both for the cyclist and pretty motorist.
:51:24. > :51:31.There is no question of that. But the moment, the cyclists just have
:51:32. > :51:36.acquired quite a militant voice. Whenever I have written about
:51:37. > :51:42.cyclists in the way that they behaved, you should see the abuse
:51:43. > :51:46.that I get. We are trying to keep each other saviour. Rather than
:51:47. > :51:50.having a considered discussion, because the cyclists cycle with a
:51:51. > :51:57.sense of entitlement, they feel they have literally the moral high
:51:58. > :52:03.ground. They, they, they. I don't cycle. I am sure one day you will
:52:04. > :52:08.discover the joys of it. You are speaking as if there is some
:52:09. > :52:12.commonality of experience. 'S talking about cyclists as they
:52:13. > :52:16.having militant attitudes. You cannot divide the world into
:52:17. > :52:21.motorists and cyclists. Audience at the back there. Go ahead. I think
:52:22. > :52:25.that personally in my opinion the roads in Northern Ireland are not
:52:26. > :52:29.safe. I saw the video footage there. Motorists are going to close to
:52:30. > :52:35.cyclists. They need to be given more space. But is that because the roads
:52:36. > :52:42.aren't themselves equipped for cyclists to use them safely? It is
:52:43. > :52:50.Government policy to favour the cyclist. Why? Because they wanted
:52:51. > :52:57.the congested city. They don't get any revenue from a cyclist. They
:52:58. > :53:01.want to improve movement. The cyclists move faster. I will beat
:53:02. > :53:04.your car any day of the week. Yes, because you do not have to obey the
:53:05. > :53:10.lights changing and you can weave in and out. How does that help the
:53:11. > :53:18.traffic flow? Why is it Government policy? If I think of these bus
:53:19. > :53:24.lanes, one of my favourite subjects, bus lanes where you're not allowed
:53:25. > :53:28.to drive on half the road any more. Stay off half the road. You may not
:53:29. > :53:31.be lying in your bed all day, you may be getting up to go to work and
:53:32. > :53:35.paying thousands of pounds in tax and fuel every day to begin to your
:53:36. > :53:42.car, that do not be using half the road because that is a bus lane. The
:53:43. > :53:52.bus policy being let's carry 100 people rather than one or two. But
:53:53. > :53:59.that is not what it is, Malachi. The bus lane is actually a cycle lane!
:54:00. > :54:02.So I can drive down the bustling, but cyclists can go down there and
:54:03. > :54:05.go even slower and hold up more traffic and they get the whole bus
:54:06. > :54:13.lane to themselves. Because they can be stopped. I have never been the
:54:14. > :54:18.position where I am holding up a bus behind me. I don't know what the
:54:19. > :54:25.regular at buses is. I know life doesn't centre around my journey to
:54:26. > :54:33.work. But there is a woman and a little man and she is on the bike.
:54:34. > :54:38.And by the way, the bus is about 20 years behind the rest of the
:54:39. > :54:44.traffic. The bike is going at about 12 mph or 20 mph. The bus will be
:54:45. > :54:52.going probably not a lot faster than that. I see there is an in all me.
:54:53. > :54:57.-- an anomaly. But the policy is to reduce congestion. They want you on
:54:58. > :55:01.a nice bike and keeping yourself healthy. But if you use that
:55:02. > :55:05.bustling, you cannot be called to account. There is no records to the
:55:06. > :55:13.law in the courts if you are this man or woman on a cycle. Should you
:55:14. > :55:18.have a registration on your helmet? I think perhaps. In the Swiss
:55:19. > :55:22.system, they do. In the Swiss system, your number plate is issued
:55:23. > :55:25.to the person rather than the car and you have to wear it on your
:55:26. > :55:34.helmet as well. Should you pay road tax? You'll pay road tax. You pay a
:55:35. > :55:41.tax on the field that you excel from your car. I do not excel any fumes
:55:42. > :55:47.from a bicycle. I am not saying it is an either or situation. We have
:55:48. > :55:51.an epidemic and become at it is costing the NHS. There is no
:55:52. > :55:55.question that cycling is not a healthier option, but you touched
:55:56. > :55:59.upon helmets. Helmets are not even compulsory. We have to wear seat
:56:00. > :56:05.belts to make it safe for us and our passengers, but you swerve on a bike
:56:06. > :56:08.in front of a motorist and you have no helmet on, you got your
:56:09. > :56:13.headphones on. I saw a guy on his phone on his bike this afternoon. I
:56:14. > :56:18.wish they would put as much emphasis into urging motorists to be careful
:56:19. > :56:24.of cyclists. You have a blinkered view. It is only because URA cyclist
:56:25. > :56:27.that you're saying this. I love cycling, I really do. I know there
:56:28. > :56:28.are two different sized to this debate. Hopefully we can keep
:56:29. > :56:31.talking about this. Well, that's it for another week,
:56:32. > :56:34.but before we go we have some They are about to go on tour
:56:35. > :56:38.with shows across Ireland, including the Lyric Theatre in
:56:39. > :56:41.Belfast and Vicar Street next month. But now with their hit song
:56:42. > :56:51.Mary, it's The 4 Of Us! # Making lots of money
:56:52. > :56:57.and giving it to Frank # Oh Mary why don't
:56:58. > :57:09.you have some sense # Please do something
:57:10. > :57:17.to restore my confidence # He wrote a loving message
:57:18. > :57:23.and left it by the phone # Everyone has heard the truth
:57:24. > :57:31.but no one lets it show # Oh Mary why don't
:57:32. > :57:35.you have some sense # Please do something
:57:36. > :57:43.to restore my confidence # There are times
:57:44. > :58:09.I lie there thinking # Oh Mary why don't
:58:10. > :58:15.you have some sense # Please do something
:58:16. > :58:24.to restore my confidence # Oh Mary why don't
:58:25. > :58:29.you have some sense # Please do something
:58:30. > :58:37.to restore my confidence