Episode 4

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:00:00. > :00:00.A new attempt to change abortion law is launched at Stormont.

:00:00. > :00:10.Will this one succeed where others have failed?

:00:11. > :00:14.Should kids as young as ten be warned of the dangers of porn -

:00:15. > :00:18.We are heading live to the States, ahead of the third

:00:19. > :00:19.presidential debate showdown between Trump and Clinton.

:00:20. > :00:21.And there is classic rock, from Smokie.

:00:22. > :00:55.And it is all in front of a live studio audience.

:00:56. > :00:58.A fresh bid to change abortion law here in Northern Ireland

:00:59. > :01:08.It comes at day after Amnesty International is claiming that the

:01:09. > :01:15.majority of people here want to see abortion in days like rape incest

:01:16. > :01:19.and foetal foetal abnormality. We are going to discuss this in the

:01:20. > :01:24.studio to. Lots of audience will have differing views. When I was

:01:25. > :01:29.minister I attempted to introduce abortion in cases of fatal foetal

:01:30. > :01:33.abnormality were the foetus would either die during pregnancy at birth

:01:34. > :01:36.or shortly afterwards and no treatment could be offered which

:01:37. > :01:41.would prolong life for me life meaning. That was something which

:01:42. > :01:44.arose out of discussions between the Department of Health and justice

:01:45. > :01:50.when I was just Minister. You are well aware of the way after some of

:01:51. > :01:52.those discussions were happening the issue was highlighted, when Sarah

:01:53. > :01:55.highlighted her story. I promised that I would seek to do something

:01:56. > :01:59.about it. I was blocked as minister and not allowed to take things

:02:00. > :02:03.forward by the Executive but I am now seeking to take it forward as a

:02:04. > :02:07.private member. It was blocked before why has that changed now it

:02:08. > :02:11.was blocked because the Executive is to agree to Executive Bill but they

:02:12. > :02:18.do not have to agree to private member's bills. It was owed in

:02:19. > :02:22.February. And they produced lines like that a lot time to the lengthy

:02:23. > :02:25.consultation by the Department of Justice. There is no excuse for that

:02:26. > :02:29.now. We will treat it as a separate bill. We will see how it goes. I

:02:30. > :02:34.believe there is the prospect that we will actually get legislation

:02:35. > :02:37.through on this narrow area. Well I mean you will have seen this week we

:02:38. > :02:42.published our survey findings that show that 70 of people in Northern

:02:43. > :02:47.Ireland do agree that in cases of rape and incest women and girls

:02:48. > :02:53.should be able to access abortion here nor Northern Ireland. I just

:02:54. > :02:58.wanted to point out that we worked closely with David on the bill that

:02:59. > :03:02.he has admitting and while it is fantastic that FFA is on the agenda

:03:03. > :03:07.I want to impress upon everybody that they key things we are looking

:03:08. > :03:11.for a Amnesty International are instances of rape and incest. Those

:03:12. > :03:17.women and girls need to be able to access abortion is Northern Ireland

:03:18. > :03:22.and a. Let's have a look at your survey statistics. Amnesty

:03:23. > :03:35.International... What is your reaction first of all

:03:36. > :03:39.to that, Dawn the first thing I want to say is that there will be women

:03:40. > :03:46.who are watching this right now who are facing are have faced these

:03:47. > :03:50.situations. Nothing that I say I want to minimise the pain that they

:03:51. > :03:53.have felt or our feeling. We need to speak with compassion and

:03:54. > :03:59.sensitivity because these are real lives these are our family members

:04:00. > :04:04.and friends. We chose not to use the term fatal foetal abnormality

:04:05. > :04:07.because it is now recognised medical term let's stick with the statistic

:04:08. > :04:11.you have just seen. The vast majority of people in that survey by

:04:12. > :04:18.Amnesty International supporting abortion in those cases. Although

:04:19. > :04:22.72. Polling is really interesting, it serves a purpose. It depends on

:04:23. > :04:27.the question that is asked. When we look at those statistics we do not

:04:28. > :04:30.deny the statistics being offered. What we are seeing is one of are

:04:31. > :04:34.heard such stories over the past number of years and we hear about

:04:35. > :04:39.women being in crisis one someone is then told there is a woman in crisis

:04:40. > :04:43.she is suffering and they answer is abortion then people wanted to fix

:04:44. > :04:55.the problem. What we are saying is there are other ways to solve this

:04:56. > :04:57.problem then terminating the life of the number and child. Let's go

:04:58. > :05:00.straight to your audience. The lady here go ahead. If you're suggesting

:05:01. > :05:03.that there are other ways to fix something that has been proven to be

:05:04. > :05:08.on what are your suggestions the child has been diagnosed with a

:05:09. > :05:14.condition and the international perinatal... This is fatal foetal

:05:15. > :05:20.abnormality the care Association did not use that term because they say

:05:21. > :05:30.that you cannot definitively say with one certainty that is not

:05:31. > :05:34.question is it it? Yes it is. If you're a woman who has been told

:05:35. > :05:37.that your child has no survivability outside of the womb you are seeing

:05:38. > :05:42.that she is to carry it tells full term to give birth which is

:05:43. > :05:47.incredibly dramatic, and then what is your suggestion after that what

:05:48. > :05:50.she she supposed to do I don't know of you have been in this situation.

:05:51. > :05:56.I have not but we are also talking to women who have been, and the

:05:57. > :06:00.majority of women who have faced that situation continue to term and

:06:01. > :06:05.they are other studies that show their long-term mental health

:06:06. > :06:10.outcome is better. I think that you're forgetting that abortion is

:06:11. > :06:15.quite a wide range of issues. You're just focusing on fatal foetal

:06:16. > :06:21.abnormality that is because I was asked about that. You were asked

:06:22. > :06:26.about the entire service. The 70 does not refer to fatal foetal

:06:27. > :06:30.abnormality. Let's have a look at these statistic for that. Slightly

:06:31. > :06:36.lower. But still a significant majority. 60 according to this

:06:37. > :06:41.Amnesty International poll saying abortion should be available in

:06:42. > :06:46.cases again the Rowan centre in the north we support the work that they

:06:47. > :06:51.do. The rape crisis network in the side did their own statistics, there

:06:52. > :06:55.are and the majority of women who have become pregnant as rape choose

:06:56. > :06:59.to carry on and find that I meant a hideout comes sorry can I just ask

:07:00. > :07:05.what statistics you are going on because they have never seen Amnesty

:07:06. > :07:08.International takes a human race based approach.

:07:09. > :07:17.As we do with Oliver other campaigns. It is about the right to

:07:18. > :07:20.life of the child. One at a time. I think it is it disgrace that in this

:07:21. > :07:24.country we force women and girls children who are victims of rape to

:07:25. > :07:28.get on aeroplanes and travel to England to get abortions that the

:07:29. > :07:35.rest of the country are able to access and we are doing that to

:07:36. > :07:39.women in Northern Ireland. APPLAUSE there is loads of time

:07:40. > :07:43.loads of time. There you're just the flight so thank you for joining us

:07:44. > :07:46.from our studios in in Dublin. Amnesty International saying that

:07:47. > :07:52.they are taking a human rights approach to this good evening

:07:53. > :07:56.Stephen. There is nothing human about the destruction of an innocent

:07:57. > :08:00.unborn child. The child in the womb is a unique individual human being

:08:01. > :08:08.and what Amnesty are calling for is the killing of innocent human

:08:09. > :08:11.beings. It is a disgrace that this so-called human rights is at the

:08:12. > :08:15.killing of little boys little girls in their mother's worm. I find that

:08:16. > :08:24.quite offensive and inflammatory so I am going to that is a red herring

:08:25. > :08:33.and a misnomer. What it is because that is not what Amnesty is that

:08:34. > :08:38.for. What are you advocating? Little women in the womb are not protected

:08:39. > :08:42.because of Amnesty. Those who have been victims of sexual crime to no

:08:43. > :08:49.longer have to board aeroplanes and get abortions in England. I wanted

:08:50. > :08:53.to see women you talk about compassion where is the compassion

:08:54. > :08:57.and the human rights for the women that we are forcing two go in front

:08:58. > :09:01.of the court in Belfast on a regular basis in the last ten years 70

:09:02. > :09:08.people have been prosecuted for abortion related activity. That is

:09:09. > :09:15.a. If I can just come back and over 90 of abortions performed in the UK

:09:16. > :09:22.are for social reasons. It is a very rare according to which a survey?

:09:23. > :09:26.According to Department of Health figures. We see very clearly that

:09:27. > :09:34.rape incest and fit foetal abnormality are not the highest hold

:09:35. > :09:40.on, what percentage did you quote 99% of social reasons less than one

:09:41. > :09:44.are for incest and fatal abnormality.

:09:45. > :09:50.To social. Steve Mac contraceptive failures failures... . If I contact

:09:51. > :09:55.the Department of Health tomorrow morning which I will do they will

:09:56. > :10:00.confirm well that there is a survey saying mentioning percent of those

:10:01. > :10:04.who leave Northern Ireland for an abortion in England are for social

:10:05. > :10:09.reasons? The Department of Health figures for the UK state very

:10:10. > :10:13.clearly that there is less than one of abortions performed for a rape

:10:14. > :10:18.and incest and fit foetal abnormality. That includes women

:10:19. > :10:22.from Ireland. That is because a lot of women don't want to disclose the

:10:23. > :10:26.fact they have been raped because it is a dramatic circumstance to find

:10:27. > :10:31.yourself in. And killing the child makes it more dramatic for that

:10:32. > :10:34.matter. A lot of women who have been rooted or do not want her have to

:10:35. > :10:38.write down on a form that they have been the victim of incest. Then we

:10:39. > :10:43.should give compassion and support to those women. We have a situation

:10:44. > :10:46.where that we should have a situation where women can be treated

:10:47. > :10:53.with the GP the already have. She is fighting for the life of a child in

:10:54. > :10:57.her view. A human life. We advocate the human rights, and it is not just

:10:58. > :11:02.on international. We did not decide this on a whim. This is based on the

:11:03. > :11:04.United Nations making decisions. This is based on the European Court

:11:05. > :11:10.of Human Rights, based on the Belfast High Court. But you need to

:11:11. > :11:13.respect the views of people here. I think it is a disgrace that she

:11:14. > :11:17.thinks that calling it little girls and little boys Europe are basically

:11:18. > :11:21.guilt tripping the people that basis this decision every day of their

:11:22. > :11:29.lives. What are they if they are not little boys and girls they are

:11:30. > :11:34.foetuses that is what they are. Bundles of filth a woman woman. What

:11:35. > :11:38.are the foetus it is a human being at it earliest stage of development.

:11:39. > :11:44.The means little one. OK, all right! Second of all I am so happy that

:11:45. > :11:47.this bill is being passed on at the moment cos it is finally giving

:11:48. > :11:52.women the right to have control over their body and if you do not like

:11:53. > :11:56.abortion do not have it. That is my but you are not getting women

:11:57. > :12:04.control of their bodies. Your killing little babies. There was a

:12:05. > :12:07.working group an announced by the DUP leader that was asking they help

:12:08. > :12:11.Minister to set up a working group about something which is actually to

:12:12. > :12:14.do with criminal justice and there are responsibility of the Minister

:12:15. > :12:18.of Justice. It is now become a joint working group between the two

:12:19. > :12:22.departments and we gather it reported to the ministers last week.

:12:23. > :12:27.Any word on the report? No, I was asking yesterday in the Assembly, as

:12:28. > :12:32.were others why do would not publish the report. They covered it up with

:12:33. > :12:34.having to take issues to the Executive. They do have the

:12:35. > :12:39.Executive is going to take a decision, but is the ministers'

:12:40. > :12:43.report on the have a right to publish. What was this report

:12:44. > :12:48.looking into? Below are under abortion in general as I understand

:12:49. > :12:53.it. And they have it finished it is finished and was presented, as I

:12:54. > :12:57.understand it to the ministers last week. They have a right to publish

:12:58. > :13:00.it to inform public thinking in Northern Ireland and they ought to

:13:01. > :13:03.do it but the Health Minister yesterday was visibly stonewalling.

:13:04. > :13:09.Maybe they would say that they want time to discuss it in government

:13:10. > :13:12.before releasing it to the public. No, it an expert report to them.

:13:13. > :13:16.There is no reason why it cannot be published on the Executive committee

:13:17. > :13:20.decide what to do but to is clear that the Executive was previously

:13:21. > :13:25.unknown to do anything which is why have produced my own Private members

:13:26. > :13:28.Bill. What do you think was going on I think it discuss what is not going

:13:29. > :13:33.on nearly every week this is just another example. When I was in the

:13:34. > :13:36.Executive I released report if they came to me there were published

:13:37. > :13:40.pretty well immediately. They formed public debate. We did genuine

:13:41. > :13:48.consultations about I was minister and we reacted to them.

:13:49. > :14:04.The man with the glasses. Who are due did tell women what to do with

:14:05. > :14:12.her body? The role of the law is to protect life. But you are not taking

:14:13. > :14:17.into account people having been through traumatic cases. They are

:14:18. > :14:23.saying Amnesty International are coming from a human rights

:14:24. > :14:28.perspective. The unborn Child has rates in more and you are talking

:14:29. > :14:39.about removing laws. If it is not a human life, what is it? It is not

:14:40. > :14:45.just a collection of sales. By eight weeks, a 16 days, there is a

:14:46. > :14:52.heartbeat. By eight weeks, everything is fear. Within the first

:14:53. > :14:59.trimester, nothing else has. Does that not make you think again, when

:15:00. > :15:04.you hear that as a heartbeat? It because years for my wife to get

:15:05. > :15:14.pregnant and I do not see how you can vilify a vulnerable women.

:15:15. > :15:20.Please do not misunderstand me. I am not objectifying women in this. I am

:15:21. > :15:28.trying to be compassionate, but there are two lives. Why are the

:15:29. > :15:35.executive blocking this? It is my impression that we are being

:15:36. > :15:39.governed by a Christian government. Would it not be better to have the

:15:40. > :15:48.society which is mentally healthy rather than one which is protecting

:15:49. > :15:55.religious rubbish? Hold on. Would you like to respond to that? I think

:15:56. > :16:01.it is very clear that the government upholds the rates of the people. We

:16:02. > :16:08.protect older citizens. Can I tell you, here we are having a discussion

:16:09. > :16:11.about abortion and you have just mentioned the government. We as the

:16:12. > :16:16.government to come in. Lot of you have come from all over the country

:16:17. > :16:23.to sit here and thank you for doing so. We asked the government, all of

:16:24. > :16:27.those very well paid ministers, for just one to respect you and sit here

:16:28. > :16:31.and do you know what they said, no. When you ask the question of

:16:32. > :16:36.government, just know that the said no. They would not sit in front of

:16:37. > :16:44.you have this discussion. Does that answer your question? It speaks

:16:45. > :16:49.volumes. Go ahead. When you talk about the government, the government

:16:50. > :16:57.is very much represented in many of the campaigns that we have launched

:16:58. > :17:01.recently. 250,000 signatures were taken to the government in the

:17:02. > :17:06.petition. The government knows the views of the vast majority of the

:17:07. > :17:13.people of the country. According to this survey, it is not the opinion

:17:14. > :17:22.of the vast majority of people living here. This is a BBC poll that

:17:23. > :17:36.we did last year. That is the statistics.

:17:37. > :17:47.You can see the sample size and the outwardly but the point that that is

:17:48. > :17:53.just one opinion poll. But when you see the vast majority of people in

:17:54. > :17:58.Northern Ireland, to of these polls completely contradict what you are

:17:59. > :18:02.seeing. How can we take these seriously? We talk about abortion,

:18:03. > :18:07.too many people it is just a warrant. It is the violent

:18:08. > :18:15.destruction of an unborn child. It destroys women. When you inform

:18:16. > :18:20.people of the consequences of abortion on the unborn Child and the

:18:21. > :18:28.women, people show their opposition to it. That is patently incorrect.

:18:29. > :18:34.It is not. We have very robust figures that show that actually the

:18:35. > :18:42.vast majority, 72% would allow for actual abortion law reform and I

:18:43. > :18:48.think that you are totally misrepresenting women's rights and

:18:49. > :18:53.human rights. You are talking about compassion, but it is not in

:18:54. > :19:03.existence. The bill was passed around fatal foetal abnormality for,

:19:04. > :19:12.I would it has for more future relaxation of the all? If the law

:19:13. > :19:20.was changed, would you feel if supported? I want to be doubt this.

:19:21. > :19:29.Can you answer the question first? For example, the 1967 law. Would you

:19:30. > :19:33.support that? As a law-abiding citizen, I would not break the law,

:19:34. > :19:41.but I would not agree with it. Please do not read paragraphs out.

:19:42. > :19:45.Off the top of my head, this is not about Christianity. This is not a

:19:46. > :19:52.made up definition of human life that either of us are stating. The

:19:53. > :19:57.European Court of Justice, for reasons of patentability, because

:19:58. > :20:02.you cannot make money off human body parts, have defined life is

:20:03. > :20:06.beginning at fertilisation and said human dignity is comfort from

:20:07. > :20:12.fertilisation. If we can do that because of money, surely begin do

:20:13. > :20:20.that out of compassion? Can I just asked, if you are discussing human

:20:21. > :20:27.rights, of a woman has been raped, does that mean that you would force

:20:28. > :20:32.the women to meet the man who raped her? In America, they have brought

:20:33. > :20:40.in a lot to say that the biological father has no rates on their child

:20:41. > :20:46.in those circumstances. We are not in America. What does the law here

:20:47. > :20:57.in the United Kingdom see? The fat that has rates. Yes, the women would

:20:58. > :21:05.have to face the rapist. That is fundamentally wrong. I am not saying

:21:06. > :21:12.it this rate are wrong. In America. I am not talking about America, I am

:21:13. > :21:24.talking about here. What we do surely is look at their reality of

:21:25. > :21:27.the situation for someone. The majority of women who have become

:21:28. > :21:35.pregnant in this manner have continued with the pregnancy. But

:21:36. > :21:43.that is the choice. Structurally and systemically, we do not need to make

:21:44. > :21:51.changes. Hope traumatic must it be for the example raised by a member

:21:52. > :22:02.of the audience. The law says the rapist will have access to the

:22:03. > :22:06.Child. When you talk about the statistics of conception because we

:22:07. > :22:10.want to cater for both the mother and the Child. Any civilised

:22:11. > :22:18.society, we provide that key and loving support. But is that support

:22:19. > :22:26.the support for the women who might want an abortion because she has

:22:27. > :22:33.been raped. You want the law to force her to have a child. We do not

:22:34. > :22:41.want the law to force people into anything. When women have conceived,

:22:42. > :22:52.for them it was because they have raped been all the Child suffering a

:22:53. > :22:56.life threatening condition. What is the alternative? It is providing

:22:57. > :23:03.better health and support. What is that actually look like? Kelly you

:23:04. > :23:06.one serious question, do you genuinely think that by banning

:23:07. > :23:14.abortion in Northern Ireland, that it stops abortion? As we know, 1000

:23:15. > :23:21.women a year are travelling over to the United Kingdom to have

:23:22. > :23:33.abortions. I would like to see, the women on the television, that has a

:23:34. > :23:41.clear. Hold on, she is not a hussy. Address are properly. It is

:23:42. > :23:48.traumatic for the women, carrying each child in the instance raped of,

:23:49. > :23:57.it could affect the mental health, having to raise a baby conceived by

:23:58. > :24:04.the person who raped her. I want to achieve balance, to anyone people in

:24:05. > :24:11.the audience wanted to begin defence of the two ladies in the audience.

:24:12. > :24:18.-- on the panel. In 2013, people made their opinions known. 250,000

:24:19. > :24:25.people said no to a change in the law here. People should be listened

:24:26. > :24:33.to. That is a fact. I do not know where the figure comes from. You do

:24:34. > :24:39.not represent the people. Amnesty International do represent the

:24:40. > :24:46.people either? Or did you get the petitions from? From the people of

:24:47. > :24:55.Northern Ireland. You will see the boxes, the role piled up. Go on. Do

:24:56. > :25:03.that for us. Can I just come in. Are you a member of any campaign group?

:25:04. > :25:10.I am a member of precious life. We have been campaigning successfully

:25:11. > :25:18.for 20 years. When were they handed them? 2013. Talking about mental

:25:19. > :25:26.health and the health of unborn children. Surely that is a health

:25:27. > :25:38.issue, also a site psychological health issue. The government can or

:25:39. > :25:42.cannot play God. History shows us what happened when we self

:25:43. > :25:49.categorise lives as being not one of the protection in the law. In the

:25:50. > :25:55.documentary last week, the lady talked about her son who had Down's

:25:56. > :26:01.syndrome about the circle redraw about protecting some lives, is fine

:26:02. > :26:07.until you are in with the circle. Before we let our guests leave, you

:26:08. > :26:14.are front-page news in the newspapers after you had been

:26:15. > :26:17.removed as an elder from your local Presbyterian Church after you spoke

:26:18. > :26:25.out in favour of gay marriage. How long will you in the church? I put

:26:26. > :26:29.out a statement about exactly what happened. I support of the Alliance

:26:30. > :26:37.policy. I thought that should be civil marriage with full protection.

:26:38. > :26:45.But you are a member of the church for 30 years. I did not want to

:26:46. > :26:58.discuss me here. Hold on. It appears the audience agrees with me. I am

:26:59. > :27:02.not trying to entrap you. You are part of a church for 30 years and

:27:03. > :27:09.what I was going to Askew was doesn't hurt when you are kicked out

:27:10. > :27:13.of the church that you were part of when all you have done is voice an

:27:14. > :27:20.opinion? What is Christian about that? What hurts is when we come to

:27:21. > :27:28.discuss serious issues on the traumas inflicted on women carrying

:27:29. > :27:33.a foetus with an abnormality when you turn the subject round to what

:27:34. > :27:36.we are seeking to do. Of course it hurts me, but that is nothing like

:27:37. > :27:49.the heart which other people have gone through. -- hurt. You are a

:27:50. > :27:54.prominent politician in the country. EV tiling politician, people keep

:27:55. > :28:04.telling me. You are still a politician. What you have done. How

:28:05. > :28:08.much time as you wasted when we should be discussing the issue at

:28:09. > :28:18.hand? One question and know you keep going? You presented it as if it was

:28:19. > :28:25.a big surprise. You have at least been public and thank you for doing

:28:26. > :28:28.that. What I mean to say is, are there some people in society who

:28:29. > :28:32.will admire you for speaking out in favour of gay marriage and others

:28:33. > :28:36.will think you are wrong, but there is a question of public interest

:28:37. > :28:43.with someone like you, simply just by speaking your mind, you have been

:28:44. > :28:47.thrown out of the church. I guess I am just asking, tell me from the

:28:48. > :28:54.heart what that means, what that says about the church? See all the

:28:55. > :28:59.judges fell into that doctrine. Unless you follow our exact way, you

:29:00. > :29:05.we are going to throw out your friendship. You are gone. You are

:29:06. > :29:10.out of our lives. That is why my question was relevant. And it is the

:29:11. > :29:16.same answer. It is the seamers and I gave you in March. I would rather

:29:17. > :29:26.talk about what we are here to talk about.

:29:27. > :29:32.It matters more to me that as a public representative I do what I

:29:33. > :29:37.was elected to do to meet the needs of people in society who have

:29:38. > :29:45.problems and to seek compassion in public life. I think you have

:29:46. > :29:49.actually said it. The suffering... I know you knew I was going to ask you

:29:50. > :29:54.a question about it so thank you for coming in and by you for not ducking

:29:55. > :29:58.it. I respect you so thank you. Ladies and gentlemen get our guests

:29:59. > :30:07.the round of applause. CHEERING

:30:08. > :30:11.Right, America is on ten to. Last Vegas will be rocking. It will be

:30:12. > :30:15.one of the biggest showdowns in the incidence. The battle who should

:30:16. > :30:17.become the next president of the United States and just the viewers,

:30:18. > :30:20.the and final US presidential debate between Donald Trump

:30:21. > :30:36.and Hillary Clinton will take house similar ID fake candidates on

:30:37. > :30:41.the television show to the real candidates do you believe you can be

:30:42. > :30:48.edible devoted president to all the people that is a great question

:30:49. > :30:54.then. About the inner cities my name is James and I did not ask anything

:30:55. > :30:59.about the inner cities. Speaking of black men you know who else should

:31:00. > :31:05.be in jail Hillary Clinton. She has committed so many crimes she is

:31:06. > :31:12.basically a black. Secretary Clinton do you wish to respond no, I am

:31:13. > :31:16.cool. Let's also take a look at the club of Hillary Clinton well not

:31:17. > :31:23.really Hillary Clinton a reaction to the trail of her from an audience

:31:24. > :31:27.member in the same skit. Hi, Patrice. Let me start by walking

:31:28. > :31:36.over to you just as I practised. Right left right left plant feed.

:31:37. > :31:45.The trees you are a teacher you have children? Yes. You like children no.

:31:46. > :31:50.You have seen children? Yes. We are bonding already Let's go live to the

:31:51. > :31:54.States to talk to trump supporter and Clinton fan. Karl let start with

:31:55. > :32:00.you how close is this selection and what is it going to be like to I

:32:01. > :32:04.don't have to tell you Stephen in the UK satire is a great way of

:32:05. > :32:08.getting along a political point. Saturday Night Live has been on the

:32:09. > :32:11.ear for over 30 years in America and they have skewered with some

:32:12. > :32:15.equality both Republicans and Democrats. I wouldn't go so far as

:32:16. > :32:21.to say I wouldn't go so far as to the I am a Trump supporter an

:32:22. > :32:26.anti-Hillary Clinton... What is wrong with her these WikiLeaks

:32:27. > :32:30.documents have revealed just one position and private and another in

:32:31. > :32:34.public. She is not trusted. They ball have shown that most Americans

:32:35. > :32:36.do not believe she is honest and trustworthy and they say the same

:32:37. > :32:41.about Donald Trump although much higher than Hillary Clinton. I think

:32:42. > :32:44.there is is cynicism in the united states that is deeper than anything

:32:45. > :32:48.I have ever seen before. Neither candidate is discussing real issues

:32:49. > :32:54.that affect real people. It is all about the power and winning the

:32:55. > :33:05.election. The reason Laura why those that

:33:06. > :33:09.Saturday night live clips are going around the world as some people are

:33:10. > :33:11.watching them and thinking that is actually very close to reality! You

:33:12. > :33:14.know, a few years ago when Sarah Palin was on the ticket she was

:33:15. > :33:17.betrayed by Tina fey and then in a bowl Katie Couric and they are an in

:33:18. > :33:19.actual interview with the actual text from the interview. Saturday

:33:20. > :33:24.Night Live like many said really breaks through. If it gets people to

:33:25. > :33:29.not and tune into the campaigns I think that is is great. Sometimes it

:33:30. > :33:32.is much closer to the truth than I think most people would like. Spell

:33:33. > :33:46.out a world with Donald Trump as the president. Oh, gosh! The Hunger

:33:47. > :33:50.Games maybe a little bit. Donald Trump as a president I just do not

:33:51. > :33:54.see a world with Donald Trump as a president. If you were to become

:33:55. > :34:03.president I see a world development. I see allies is falling apart. I see

:34:04. > :34:07.the rise of rush I see the United States which consumes five of the

:34:08. > :34:12.world's a good a loss. So I really prefer not to see a Donald Trump

:34:13. > :34:16.future! And a world where it woman would be walking down the street and

:34:17. > :34:23.maybe would get scored between one to! It is not funny. Let me answer

:34:24. > :34:27.the question Stephen. The reason for the rise of Donald Trump in the

:34:28. > :34:32.United States is the discussed with the establishment. It was also the

:34:33. > :34:36.reason for the rise of Bernie Sanders the independent Socialist

:34:37. > :34:39.senator from Vermont who channelled, challenged Hillary Clinton on the

:34:40. > :34:44.Democratic side for the nomination. People are fed up with what is going

:34:45. > :34:49.on in Washington. The see a you are of Donald Trump this guy you were

:34:50. > :34:54.supporting. They're guy who says if you're theme as you can do whatever

:34:55. > :35:02.you want! I did not say that Stephen. You're very good at putting

:35:03. > :35:07.words in other people's lives -- other people's mode. You did not say

:35:08. > :35:11.it from dead. I am not defending him. The man you are supporting as a

:35:12. > :35:14.man who said if you are powerful and rich that you can do anything you

:35:15. > :35:20.want to a woman that is the guy you want to be president Bill Clinton

:35:21. > :35:24.pretty much practised the same thing did he not and Hillary are covered

:35:25. > :35:28.for him. But Hillary Clinton is the one running for president. Ever

:35:29. > :35:32.since those allegations came out you see is numbers going down further

:35:33. > :35:36.and further and just to to more people came forward to corroborate

:35:37. > :35:40.the story told in People magazine told by a reporter who said when she

:35:41. > :35:46.was interviewing Donald Trump with his pregnant wife upstairs he took

:35:47. > :35:56.her behind the draw and stuck his Don down her throat. He stuck his

:35:57. > :36:03.what I have not heard that story! -- stuck his tongue. One second, U2,

:36:04. > :36:14.go! THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER

:36:15. > :36:20.I do not know how in America it is founded on liberty and values of

:36:21. > :36:24.freedom house that man has been allowed to run as a presidential

:36:25. > :36:31.candidate when he has on insulted every woman on the planet with what

:36:32. > :36:34.he has done. It makes America look ridiculous because it is such a huge

:36:35. > :36:41.country but it is an insult to so many people. It is not an insult to

:36:42. > :36:45.a lot of women because Trump's supporting from woman is very

:36:46. > :36:49.strong. Here is the key thing. They Wall Street Journal NBC news poll

:36:50. > :36:53.out yesterday published in that newspapers shows a likely will voter

:36:54. > :36:59.turnout amongst women among African-Americans and a amongst

:37:00. > :37:04.those 18 30 and Donald Trump is counting on a high turnout among his

:37:05. > :37:08.constituents to win the election. I am keen to get as many of our

:37:09. > :37:12.audience and as possible and I want them to be able to speak to the

:37:13. > :37:18.audience. This is cool I did not know we had an audience! You didn't

:37:19. > :37:23.know! It is the biggest show in Northern Ireland. I am a huge Graham

:37:24. > :37:26.Norton van! BOOING

:37:27. > :37:33.I am not quite as rich good or prolific! The woman asked behind me

:37:34. > :37:36.why people are supporting Donald Trump and why he is allowed to run

:37:37. > :37:39.for president working-class people in the United States have been left

:37:40. > :37:43.devastated by globalisation over the course of the 19 and 19 all of their

:37:44. > :37:47.industry has been sent to China and other countries that is why Donald

:37:48. > :37:50.Trump is running. They working class people in America any serious

:37:51. > :37:56.situation and want somebody has speaks on their behalf, Clinton does

:37:57. > :37:59.not. And Hillary is not exactly clean. Just imagine if anybody in

:38:00. > :38:04.this audience got is the peanut you call it and they were told the

:38:05. > :38:08.authorities will be coming round to search the house. Imagine if

:38:09. > :38:12.somebody in the audience then started going around at house

:38:13. > :38:17.binning any evidence about anything that's the authorities had said they

:38:18. > :38:26.needed to investigate. What did you candidate do after she got is the

:38:27. > :38:34.she raised 33,000 e-mails, and she is 20 to tell the air about her

:38:35. > :38:38.daughter's wedding. 30! I think are different e-mails the personal

:38:39. > :38:42.nature ones and these are peanuts that word deleted before the Sabena.

:38:43. > :38:47.She has turned over and unprecedented amount have you ever

:38:48. > :38:56.deleted 30 e-mails? Why are you delete e-mails -- 32,000 e-mails. I

:38:57. > :39:00.do it every 30 days. Because at clogs up my inbox and I now I need

:39:01. > :39:07.to deal with them. It is in box detox is what I call it really?

:39:08. > :39:10.The point about the working middle class is a very good one and of

:39:11. > :39:15.Donald Trump and it debate tonight focuses on change he could really

:39:16. > :39:18.get numbers up a little bit. The problem as he has been stepping out

:39:19. > :39:23.of message by saying that the voting in America is raped and it is not

:39:24. > :39:29.correct, there is no example of such rigging. I think that kids suppress

:39:30. > :39:34.those coming forward. -- the voting is raped. The FBI said it was not

:39:35. > :39:38.enough evidence to go against Clinton however Donald Trump is up

:39:39. > :39:47.against a court case in December for the rape of a -year-old. No, he has

:39:48. > :39:52.not. No he has not. He is a named plaintiff. He is not and we cannot

:39:53. > :40:00.stand for that. We have not seen it and we cannot stand over that no

:40:01. > :40:05.years is not. -- he is not. I would just say and very you have an

:40:06. > :40:09.audience member. Both candidates like Donald Trump speaks for

:40:10. > :40:12.himself. He is terrible obviously. But we talk so much about the

:40:13. > :40:15.National Health Service here she doesn't want in national health

:40:16. > :40:18.service. We talk so much about health care does she want it

:40:19. > :40:20.National Health Service. We talk so much about health care, does she

:40:21. > :40:24.wanted? Does she want a Living Wage no. She is terrible. If the US ever

:40:25. > :40:32.wants to be prosperous they need to get out of the two system. Go green

:40:33. > :40:37.do it please. ! Third parties have never worked well in America. Final

:40:38. > :40:40.question I am going to be setting up to watch the string that is what I

:40:41. > :40:44.am going to be doing in the middle of the night. I will be sitting with

:40:45. > :40:47.my little ball of prawn cocktail crisps that is another story. You

:40:48. > :40:54.have to be fresh with your radio show! I would be fresh enough to

:40:55. > :40:57.take you on any time big boy! I will be over in three weeks. Give them a

:40:58. > :41:06.round of applause! CHEERING

:41:07. > :41:11.Now, for our last live debate, how would you feel about being taught

:41:12. > :41:22.The woman advocating it is a lawyer and will be sitting at this desk in

:41:23. > :41:30.just a few seconds but first we have a out and about to find out what

:41:31. > :41:33.people think. I think they should be taught in school. It needs to be

:41:34. > :41:38.followed but will home but school is the professional fund expertise and

:41:39. > :41:41.that is where it should start. As a parent I think I would be better

:41:42. > :41:45.speaking to my children about pornography and sex and the birds

:41:46. > :41:51.and the bees as they say. I do not really think it is for education. Is

:41:52. > :41:55.that really a to be taught in school it kind of corrupt and is so I think

:41:56. > :42:00.it is more or less a personal thing that the parents themselves should

:42:01. > :42:05.deal with. It is more of the parents, because the school is

:42:06. > :42:10.really more the physicality is reproduction and all that. I think

:42:11. > :42:15.people younger and younger are getting more involved watching it

:42:16. > :42:20.which could be more concerning so if it was more of an open topic in

:42:21. > :42:25.school because it could be uncomfortable for parents. Out of

:42:26. > :42:26.school with parents or whatever kids do find it. There is nothing really

:42:27. > :42:36.anybody can do about it. So, how young is too young to talk

:42:37. > :42:38.to children in schools How about as young as P7,

:42:39. > :42:51.kids of 10 or 11? Telling a ten-year-old about

:42:52. > :42:56.pornography we are telling them about how their brains work. Kids

:42:57. > :43:02.have got to learn that their brains from the age of about ten or 11

:43:03. > :43:06.onwards is incredibly susceptible to addiction of all kinds and Internet

:43:07. > :43:10.pornography is highly addictive. A ten-year-old does not understand sex

:43:11. > :43:19.and pornography. You would be surprised. They are more interested

:43:20. > :43:24.in Santa Claus or Xbox. I am sorry this is what all the research is

:43:25. > :43:27.showing. Children on average, so there are children younger are

:43:28. > :43:33.already starting to look at pornography. Younger than primary

:43:34. > :43:36.primary seven? Yes, appearance are getting children's smartphones and

:43:37. > :43:39.tablet at a very young age. If my child is being taught about

:43:40. > :43:46.pornography in skill at age ten I would object the and if and when the

:43:47. > :43:50.time comes for them to be educated about it is not teachers should be

:43:51. > :43:54.doing it or with huge respect to not people like yourself only parents

:43:55. > :43:57.can understand whether a child is able to assimilate that kind of

:43:58. > :44:01.information. It is big stuff big stuff. Only a parent can understand

:44:02. > :44:04.whether they can take it under understand it whether they can deal

:44:05. > :44:09.with it or whether it will scare them. With respect, teachers know

:44:10. > :44:14.what children can as and understand sometimes better than a parent. You

:44:15. > :44:19.say that but last Ofsted produced a report saying they teachers who

:44:20. > :44:22.teach sex education had little or no training in how to do that and the

:44:23. > :44:26.Department for Education said exactly the same thing, that

:44:27. > :44:35.teachers who teach sex education are war lacking. I use that at age nine

:44:36. > :44:37.or or ten that he would tell a child there are adults having sex on the

:44:38. > :44:55.Internet? The children are we already. You are

:44:56. > :45:01.wrong. No, you are. We are not teaching pornography, we are

:45:02. > :45:06.teaching them how their brains work. Do you think it is less about

:45:07. > :45:12.pornography and more about the dangers of the dark side of the

:45:13. > :45:21.Internet? That is a different subject. Do you not think, you are

:45:22. > :45:26.talking about ten years old, I know children as young as five or six

:45:27. > :45:33.years old who are picking up tablets are smartphones. They are not

:45:34. > :45:42.looking up pornography. They are looking up Thomas the Tank Engine.

:45:43. > :45:51.Do not upset my view of the world! They are on tablets, just looking at

:45:52. > :45:57.cartoons for the most part. But she wants to tell them about

:45:58. > :46:05.pornography. How can you understand about the dangers of pornography at

:46:06. > :46:15.the age of ten. Kids, when the hat puberty, has been the key stage. Is

:46:16. > :46:20.that not 1314. Now, it is younger. It was for me. But as people have

:46:21. > :46:28.better nutrition, the age of puberty is getting lower for boys and girls.

:46:29. > :46:33.That is why we went wrong. We have been conditioned of millions of

:46:34. > :46:38.years of biology to be curious about sex. We'll do the 11 about it, on

:46:39. > :46:44.the Internet? That is a difference about been curious about sex and

:46:45. > :46:50.giving them details of sex and violence. That is not what we're

:46:51. > :46:58.doing. One expert said, if you do not conceptualise what children are

:46:59. > :47:02.seeing, will become the normality. How can you explain pornography to a

:47:03. > :47:09.nine-year-old child who actually still believes in Santa and the

:47:10. > :47:14.tooth fairy. I do not teach them a bit pornography. You teach them

:47:15. > :47:21.about the dangers of it. So far, I have been dealing with children who

:47:22. > :47:27.are 15, 16 and 17, but the schools I have been going into helping asking

:47:28. > :47:33.for courses to be developed for the younger age groups. Not all of them.

:47:34. > :47:37.Some of them steadfastly refused to talk about the dangers of

:47:38. > :47:43.pornography. Teachers are very uncomfortable about talking about

:47:44. > :47:47.sex. Parents need to be better educated, as well. What would you be

:47:48. > :47:51.telling them what would you be telling a pay many sects are primary

:47:52. > :47:57.seven Child about pornography? We are telling them things about how

:47:58. > :48:03.the gay appetites for food and how eating too much food is not good for

:48:04. > :48:10.them. And then, when the hit puberty, they are going to start

:48:11. > :48:15.being interested in sex. Do you tell them where Sixers? They are learning

:48:16. > :48:21.about that. They are learning about that from pavements, the school and

:48:22. > :48:27.by friends. I am talking about a child in primary six. What do you

:48:28. > :48:30.actually see? So far, we have not been dealing directly with them. I

:48:31. > :48:34.would tell them their brains are going to be very interested in sex

:48:35. > :48:40.and it is better to get them from the appearance or the biology

:48:41. > :48:48.teacher and not from the Internet. If a child said, what is sex? The

:48:49. > :48:52.north what it is. Children may know about the physical act, but do you

:48:53. > :48:58.think the understand the difference between sex and love and violence?

:48:59. > :49:09.Or do you tell a child? I am working with educational experts. I would

:49:10. > :49:14.see sex is a desire for connection with another human being. Would you

:49:15. > :49:19.talk to you primary seven child about masturbation. Probably not.

:49:20. > :49:28.Would you talk about the degradation of women which a lot of pornography

:49:29. > :49:32.is about? We talk about respect. We talk about how you respect friends.

:49:33. > :49:40.Would you ask for a photo of them when they are naked? No, you would

:49:41. > :49:43.not. In your defence, let us look on some of the statistics, which

:49:44. > :49:48.absolutely shocked me when I saw them. These are according to the

:49:49. > :50:07.National Society for the protection of children.

:50:08. > :50:14.Nearly one third of that age group have seen pornography. They may well

:50:15. > :50:19.have stumbled across it. Many of them. Is that an excuse to open the

:50:20. > :50:23.door to it, to explain it in graphic detail. They are actively speaking

:50:24. > :50:44.at. 19% it was shown to them without

:50:45. > :50:49.their consent. Maybe we have a lack of understanding as to what is

:50:50. > :50:54.actually going on. Is this pornography we are searching for? It

:50:55. > :50:59.is someone getting pornography and sent to jail, come and watch this?

:51:00. > :51:07.No, this is children showing pornography to one another. Then we

:51:08. > :51:17.boys used to hand out football cards, boys are shearing fails with

:51:18. > :51:23.wicked pornography. The more crude the better. But you just said, you

:51:24. > :51:27.would explain it to an 11 or 12-year-old, you said you would do

:51:28. > :51:33.it in a very simplistic terms. What use is that if that is what they are

:51:34. > :51:40.looking at? What use is that approach? I am not saying they are

:51:41. > :51:44.already on it. Some may see it. Some may see it and not be able to sleep

:51:45. > :51:49.at night and be terrified. Good parents will have to be aware of

:51:50. > :51:57.what the play. How do they get access to it? Because parents are

:51:58. > :52:04.giving children tablets and smartphones. If they are not working

:52:05. > :52:11.on the Internet, the may be looking at a porn stash from a father. Is it

:52:12. > :52:15.necessarily the case at a child looking at pornography, with the

:52:16. > :52:19.actually do them any harm? Would actually maybe not do them any harm?

:52:20. > :52:25.I am not saying it is doing them any good, but what does the research

:52:26. > :52:32.see? There is ample research. There is more coming out of the day. There

:52:33. > :52:37.are mental palms. One of the most common things is the body

:52:38. > :52:45.dysmorphia. Boys seem in with enlarged penises and on all sorts of

:52:46. > :52:50.drugs to keep them erect. Get also seen women with enhanced breasts and

:52:51. > :52:55.thinking, I do not match up to that. On that level there is a problem.

:52:56. > :53:01.The more interest they have, the more it escalates. Once you've seen

:53:02. > :53:06.something a few teams, like with everything, you escalate to more and

:53:07. > :53:13.more. So how can schools with no training on the dangers of

:53:14. > :53:18.pornography, no training on how to confront it, however they going to

:53:19. > :53:24.actually approach this? I agree. That is why my charity is lobbying

:53:25. > :53:27.the government. We are trying to get a round table discussion with

:53:28. > :53:35.education, health and community workers. This is in the next couple

:53:36. > :53:45.of weeks. We're not talking about any change in the law? Boys shearing

:53:46. > :53:54.fails to see how gross picture you can look up before you throw up. And

:53:55. > :53:58.above 60 metres? If you have more kudos, you are a tough guy, you can

:53:59. > :54:10.look at the really gross stuff. Go ahead. Hold on, we do not have the

:54:11. > :54:14.microphone. Children for years have been getting sexual education in

:54:15. > :54:24.primary seven. What is to stop them on the tablets to Google the words.

:54:25. > :54:32.They are going to do it anyway. We wrap we're running out of time. Go

:54:33. > :54:39.ahead. Can you not stop them getting access to the Internet? Pavements

:54:40. > :54:44.can. Children will often access at home, so parents can control that.

:54:45. > :54:57.Erectile dysfunction is a bad problem for men. 15 years ago, it

:54:58. > :55:02.was 2-3%. No, we are talking about 30%. It is the major issue. Thank

:55:03. > :55:11.you very much for joining us, give them a round of applause please.

:55:12. > :55:14.That is all the talking done for tonight, but before we go,

:55:15. > :55:18.These guys are set to play Belfast's Waterfront Hall on Sunday.

:55:19. > :55:29.With their top ten hit, Living Next Door To Alice, it's Smokie!

:55:30. > :55:32.# Sally called, when she got the word

:55:33. > :55:46.# So, I rushed to the window and I looked outside

:55:47. > :55:59.# This big limousine pulled slowly into Alice's drive

:56:00. > :56:01.# I don't know why she's leaving, or where she's gonna go

:56:02. > :56:05.# I guess she's got her reasons but I just don't want to know

:56:06. > :56:15.# Cos for 24 years I've been living next door to Alice

:56:16. > :56:17.# 24 years, just waitin' for a chance

:56:18. > :56:22.# To tell her how I'm feeling, maybe get a second glance

:56:23. > :56:31.# Now I've gotta get used to not living next door to Alice

:56:32. > :56:33.# Grew up together, two kids in the park

:56:34. > :56:35.# Carved our initials deep in the bark

:56:36. > :56:48.# Now she walks to the door, with her head held high

:56:49. > :56:53.# Just for a moment, I caught her eye

:56:54. > :57:01.# As the big limousine pulled slowly out of Alice's drive

:57:02. > :57:05.# I don't know why she's leaving, or where she's gonna go

:57:06. > :57:08.# I guess she's got her reasons but I just don't want to know

:57:09. > :57:16.# Cos for 24 years I've been living next door to Alice

:57:17. > :57:20.# 24 years, just waitin' for a chance

:57:21. > :57:23.# To tell her how I'm feeling, maybe get a second glance

:57:24. > :57:35.# Now I've gotta get used to not living next door to Alice

:57:36. > :57:37.# Sally called back, and asked how I felt

:57:38. > :57:50.# I know how to help you get over Alice

:57:51. > :57:52.# She said "Now Alice is gone, but I'm still here"

:57:53. > :57:56.# "You know I've been waiting 24 years"

:57:57. > :58:08.# I don't know why she's leaving, or where she's gonna go

:58:09. > :58:11.# I guess she's got her reasons but I just don't want to know

:58:12. > :58:19.# Cos for 24 years I've been living next door to Alice

:58:20. > :58:23.# 24 years, just waitin' for a chance

:58:24. > :58:28.# To tell her how I'm feeling, maybe get a second glance

:58:29. > :58:50.# No, I'll never get used to not living next door to Alice. #