:00:00. > :00:00.Well, a whole lot to talk about after the election.
:00:07. > :00:08.What compromises do you think the big two parties should
:00:09. > :00:56.So much to discuss tonight cos we have stalemate, don't we?
:00:57. > :00:58.There's this fundamental sticking point to get past -
:00:59. > :01:05.Will DUP insist Arlene remains as First Minister
:01:06. > :01:16.or will Sinn Fein get their way and make her step aside?
:01:17. > :01:25.What do you think? I believe Arlene Foster should do the honourable
:01:26. > :01:29.thing and be accountable for what she was in charge of and do the
:01:30. > :01:36.honourable thing and step aside for the temporary period of the enquiry.
:01:37. > :01:44.She stood at the election and she got 225,000 votes. People were
:01:45. > :01:45.voting as a protest to keep the others out. It wasn't on real
:01:46. > :01:49.issues. And let's just remind ourselves
:01:50. > :01:51.how Sinn Fein reacted when their leader was under threat -
:01:52. > :02:16.this from when Gerry Adams DUP and the largest party, Sinn Fein
:02:17. > :02:21.and the second party and Arlene Foster has the biggest mandate and
:02:22. > :02:24.Sinn Fein should stop playing political games and get on the job
:02:25. > :02:35.of governing because that is what we want, we don't want these talks, we
:02:36. > :02:41.want the Executive back. They're trying to dictate to the designated
:02:42. > :02:47.person will be? I think is disgrace. When we first came back to power in
:02:48. > :02:50.2007 at two people to swallow their pride and we need that same attitude
:02:51. > :02:55.people come together and just hit back to governing the country and
:02:56. > :02:59.get jobs and going and just get the country back on its feet. We know
:03:00. > :03:01.Well, we know the results were on a knife edge.
:03:02. > :03:04.We have BBC Ireland Correspondent Chris Buckler with us in studio
:03:05. > :03:14.it's worth remembering how will the two big parties did in the
:03:15. > :03:20.selection. If we take a look at the first preference vote share, the DUP
:03:21. > :03:28.really coming top of the heap with 21% just behind them as Sinn Fein,
:03:29. > :03:48.so very close. These are the first preference votes, Sinn Fein just
:03:49. > :03:53.1000 behind. The last in the DUP was 35,000 votes in front, just to just
:03:54. > :03:59.over 1000, that is a huge difference. At the end of the day
:04:00. > :04:04.they have more seats and shots than Sinn Fein so can the dictate to the
:04:05. > :04:12.DUP who they want as their First Minister? They don't have more
:04:13. > :04:15.seats, they have one more seat and I think the issue is that if Arlene
:04:16. > :04:23.was when to step aside she should have done so at Christmas and we
:04:24. > :04:26.wouldn't have needed an election, and I think the DUP RNA very
:04:27. > :04:30.difficult position because they have tried to see this entire scandal
:04:31. > :04:35.about Arlene as their leader and I think to capitulate now to Sinn Fein
:04:36. > :04:39.would look very bad. They could possibly keep her as party leader
:04:40. > :04:44.and nominate someone else as First Minister to get over the talks
:04:45. > :04:47.process but I think at this point the DUP RNA cul-de-sac, do they go
:04:48. > :04:56.back into power share and really keep on with the stance that Clinton
:04:57. > :05:02.hasn't worked for them. As it's not Sinn Fein also in a cul-de-sac Riske
:05:03. > :05:11.the see how they have protected their leaders. We were talking about
:05:12. > :05:15.this on the radio today, Conor Murphy questioned the integrity of
:05:16. > :05:20.the tribunal. When Gerry Adams was arrested Sinn Fein didn't say we
:05:21. > :05:22.will honour the police investigation, according to
:05:23. > :05:28.political policing. We saw that clip. It doesn't just Sinn Fein
:05:29. > :05:36.calling for a limited step aside, all the other parties have two and
:05:37. > :05:40.even in the middle ground. We have said it would be preferable if she
:05:41. > :05:43.hadn't so I don't think she has the support of the other Unionist party
:05:44. > :05:46.or the middle ground. At this point in time Sinn Fein are in quite a
:05:47. > :05:51.leisurely as position because it doesn't matter to them when they go
:05:52. > :05:56.into this talks process, they have a huge mandate and the support of the
:05:57. > :06:03.nationalist population. Do you feel a responsibility to stand up for the
:06:04. > :06:08.Unionist Arlene Foster? I am no fan of the DUP but the way Sinn Fein
:06:09. > :06:11.have conducted themselves and try to dictate to Arlene Foster, I don't
:06:12. > :06:17.think she should be pushed about dictated to by Sinn Fein. What will
:06:18. > :06:27.see to the community of the DUP do that? If Arlene Foster steps aside
:06:28. > :06:32.after a disastrous election for unionism it will be unbelievably
:06:33. > :06:35.embarrassing for Arlene Foster and the DUP added for see a lot about
:06:36. > :06:39.the strength of the DUP an epic Arlene Foster should stand her
:06:40. > :06:43.ground and I would say to Arlene Foster do not be pushed about and
:06:44. > :06:49.stand your ground. If she stands her ground that isn't going to be a
:06:50. > :06:55.Government. It is not going to be a Government that would be a
:06:56. > :07:04.Government. Sinn Fein catfish around a democratic elected leader. Who is
:07:05. > :07:08.Sinn Fein to say otherwise? The one good thing to promote the election
:07:09. > :07:14.was DUP lost the condition of concern and a lot of parties went
:07:15. > :07:17.into the election for progress and a quality so I think it is an
:07:18. > :07:25.opportunity for an active push by all parties on gay marriage. I want
:07:26. > :07:31.to stick at the top of the show about this fundamental conundrum
:07:32. > :07:35.that the currently has, that isn't going to be a Government unless Sinn
:07:36. > :07:43.Fein or the DUP and blink or Arlene Foster. What should they do? I have
:07:44. > :07:47.never seen arrogance more than Arlene Foster, all parties are
:07:48. > :07:52.asking for have to step down and she would, she is jeopardising the
:07:53. > :07:55.health service, there is no budget going through, she is putting people
:07:56. > :08:04.of Northern Ireland on the line because she wants to keep her post.
:08:05. > :08:08.Or Sinn Fein are? If Sinn Fein except they can put in the
:08:09. > :08:14.candidates to that first office and the DUP can put candidate and, they
:08:15. > :08:17.might be a Government. It has been an all-party consensus across the
:08:18. > :08:21.board, it has been at Green and orange and yellow and all different
:08:22. > :08:24.colours, asking for Arlene Foster to step aside and she would that is the
:08:25. > :08:35.definition of arrogance. APPLAUSE
:08:36. > :08:43.This election has not unionism for six. People are reeling and Rene
:08:44. > :08:47.look at the reaction it shouldn't have knocked them for six because
:08:48. > :08:50.the numbers and the last ten years haven't really changed that much in
:08:51. > :08:55.terms of the share of the vote, nationalism was slightly ahead than
:08:56. > :09:00.it is known and given that has been a democratic change and the Catholic
:09:01. > :09:06.population has edged up, the seats are much closer and this is what has
:09:07. > :09:08.really got people. This is to do with transfers and people are not
:09:09. > :09:16.necessarily transferring from the SDLP and the towards the extremes,
:09:17. > :09:22.not pretty moderate, but further Arlene should stand aside, the
:09:23. > :09:27.factions feed have made that almost the primary goal makes that very
:09:28. > :09:38.difficult. Do you think she should stand aside? We never asked have to
:09:39. > :09:44.stand aside, we have been leading the coverage of RHI for a
:09:45. > :09:46.comprehensive enquiry that could compel documents and witnesses but
:09:47. > :09:49.we never called for her to stand aside, it might have been a clever
:09:50. > :10:03.thing to do before the election that is gone. I note no one in my year
:10:04. > :10:08.group who would vote DUP and speaking as someone who is Unionist,
:10:09. > :10:22.I would vote DUP. 225,000 people dead. -- did. Arlene Foster turns
:10:23. > :10:29.off a great deal of young people from voting Unionist,. She is
:10:30. > :10:37.leading the party with the biggest number of seats and Northern
:10:38. > :10:47.Ireland. They should have got 33 seats that the 90 and they have lost
:10:48. > :10:54.five. It's a big vote for the DUP, 225,000 as we say and Arlene Foster
:10:55. > :10:58.can take credit for that. That is the best result they have had and a
:10:59. > :11:01.modern assembly election but she perhaps you should take
:11:02. > :11:09.responsibility for some of the Sinn Fein vote coming out as well. Let's
:11:10. > :11:14.break down the vote can take a look at it because it has been a change
:11:15. > :11:18.and if the DUP are down more than one percentage point, on the other
:11:19. > :11:21.hand Sinn Fein are almost four percentage points to stop all that
:11:22. > :11:30.please and to the changes that you will see a storm Stormont and the
:11:31. > :11:36.successes that into that as well. If you break it down to Unionist and
:11:37. > :11:39.nationalist, they needed 46 for two get a majority and sits dormant and
:11:40. > :11:46.neither Unionist nonnationals to manage to do that and they have
:11:47. > :11:54.dropped from a majority to just 40, just one seat more. Who has the
:11:55. > :12:00.momentum? The momentum is with the Nationalists. The election reflects
:12:01. > :12:04.a change in Northern Ireland which hasn't been apparent for the past
:12:05. > :12:12.six or seven years and Nationalists when voting. Who is a greater threat
:12:13. > :12:17.to the union? Yes, Arlene Foster didn't deliver the DUP Boss best
:12:18. > :12:22.vote but she delivered nationalism in the best ever vote in the north
:12:23. > :12:25.of Ireland. You don't know that Arlene Foster deliver that. That
:12:26. > :12:32.could have been people responding to Sinn Fein. We need to compare it to
:12:33. > :12:36.the election took place only ten months ago when Arlene Foster was
:12:37. > :12:40.returned with 36, Sinn Fein and the SDLP delivered the worst collective
:12:41. > :12:49.performance and the assembly election error and within ten months
:12:50. > :12:53.because of the reaction to the RHI scandal, but provided a considerable
:12:54. > :12:57.motivating factor to drive Nationalists out to the point we are
:12:58. > :13:02.now seeing we are talking about an age of minorities when unionism has
:13:03. > :13:09.been reduced to being alongside nationalism as a minority. What
:13:10. > :13:22.right has Sinn Fein got to bang Arlene Foster from being the First
:13:23. > :13:28.Minister of this country? -- ban. It was very obvious when the RHI
:13:29. > :13:30.scandal was in fun folding they thought a deal could be worked out
:13:31. > :13:37.when Arlene Foster would stand aside for a number of weeks. Which Sinn
:13:38. > :13:44.Fein minister has ever stood aside? Is that not inconsistent? There
:13:45. > :13:51.hasn't been. We're talking about a scandal. And December Sinn Fein are
:13:52. > :13:55.doing everything they could to protect Arlene Foster's position.
:13:56. > :14:00.What happened after that was a serious of disaster decisions by the
:14:01. > :14:06.DUP and I think that point in time that was when Fein with through and
:14:07. > :14:18.that was when having proper Foster problems started. Would the DUP, and
:14:19. > :14:25.a hypothetical situation, be entitled to say to Sinn Fein, we are
:14:26. > :14:30.not going into Government with you for as long as Gerry Adams remains
:14:31. > :14:36.you president? He makes some of the people and our community
:14:37. > :14:52.uncomfortable. We have watched him carry the coffin of a bomber of a
:14:53. > :14:56.man who killed Would it be fair enough for the DUP to say while he
:14:57. > :15:03.is the Sinn Fein president, no Government? They are banning Arlene
:15:04. > :15:09.Foster. Not for something that has happened in the past, and they are
:15:10. > :15:13.not really banning, Stephen? -- Stephen... They are saying we will
:15:14. > :15:21.not go into Government for as long as they -- she is there. Is in the
:15:22. > :15:26.mood of the Unionist audience? This has been the worst performance of
:15:27. > :15:32.unionism in the history of the state. So I think Sinn Fein's in a
:15:33. > :15:35.strong position, they can allow Arlene Foster to remain as leader
:15:36. > :15:44.and still gain a strong position, because she still isn't clearly
:15:45. > :15:52.delivering. This all goes back to the Belfast agreement, because when
:15:53. > :15:57.you have an institutionalised system, why is anybody surprised
:15:58. > :16:05.when we have stand-offs? Ten years of Government though, Jamie. It
:16:06. > :16:09.absolutely no surprise to me that it will implode eventually. So you were
:16:10. > :16:18.preferred direct role? In a macro given a choice between what we have
:16:19. > :16:20.now, or have perhaps the most right wing Government since Maggie
:16:21. > :16:28.Thatcher, I would probably accept that. There is going to be pain,
:16:29. > :16:32.wherever unionism goes. For socially conservative unionists in terms of
:16:33. > :16:36.same-sex marriage and other things, but there is good to be paid
:16:37. > :16:47.whichever way. Man in the front row. . -- if this happened anywhere else
:16:48. > :16:51.in the UK, the minister responsible, for that much money going down the
:16:52. > :16:59.drain or up in smoke in this case, would have been suspended on the
:17:00. > :17:03.spot. Why do you think she got so many votes, then? People
:17:04. > :17:08.disillusioned with the way things are, because they are saying, like,
:17:09. > :17:15.if you don't vote for us, you are going to get Sinn Fein in. Arlene
:17:16. > :17:23.Foster should step aside for a while anyway. And then the whole lot of
:17:24. > :17:31.them should get together and run the country as they are supposed to do,
:17:32. > :17:38.for the public. The DUP says yes, Sinn Fein says no. And that's been
:17:39. > :17:44.going on for 20 years. And you are sick of it? And we are getting sick
:17:45. > :17:54.of it. Let's have a proper system of Government, then. Unionism's really
:17:55. > :17:58.going to have to work on its image. This has been a problem of unionism,
:17:59. > :18:04.probably something to do with the mentality of Ulster prostitutes
:18:05. > :18:09.going back centuries. -- Protestants. Sinn Fein can be
:18:10. > :18:13.extraordinarily intransigent, but is very good at charming people. Look
:18:14. > :18:17.at the point you made, it wasn't even conceivable that the DUP would
:18:18. > :18:23.have made that the man of Gerry Adams. Even the legacy has moved on
:18:24. > :18:28.to what Sinn Fein is saying, unionists haven't done that. I think
:18:29. > :18:34.unionists made a huge mistake in not saying, let's have a public inquiry
:18:35. > :18:41.into the IRA. Bloody Sunday, ?200 million. ?500 million into the IRA,
:18:42. > :18:45.they never did something like that. They wouldn't have got that, but it
:18:46. > :18:48.would have moved the letter here, under negotiation would have come
:18:49. > :18:53.back somewhere in between. So unionists have to be more charming,
:18:54. > :18:59.because everybody thinks they only say no, and the need to expose Sinn
:19:00. > :19:03.Fein 's intransigence. There is a situation at the moment with the big
:19:04. > :19:09.parties locked away discussing the whole options of what to do next.
:19:10. > :19:13.And all of the different permutations that there could be.
:19:14. > :19:19.Chris, lay out some of those options. There could be yet more
:19:20. > :19:24.talking. We mention just how many disagreements there are between the
:19:25. > :19:30.DUP and Sinn Fein. You can see Sinn Fein talking about a lot of things.
:19:31. > :19:36.Things that you could argue could be red lines for them. Legacies become
:19:37. > :19:40.a very -- legacy's become an important one today, and perhaps
:19:41. > :19:47.also Arlene Foster stepping aside the most important of all. During
:19:48. > :19:53.the campaign they said no Irish language act at any particular time.
:19:54. > :19:57.Now, they could need to be a emergency legislation to hold off
:19:58. > :20:01.another election, but frankly that is option number two. James broken
:20:02. > :20:06.shower might have to come in and call for yet another vote if they
:20:07. > :20:10.cannot come to an agreement. That is a potentially costly option Semicon
:20:11. > :20:13.on the election last year cost about ?5 million. He has to call one
:20:14. > :20:22.within a reasonable period of time, so perhaps the talks could continue.
:20:23. > :20:28.There is a third option, of course, and that is going to do -- direct
:20:29. > :20:30.rule. Basically Westminster takes over Government here, and there
:20:31. > :20:34.might be some viewers who think the potential savings of that might be
:20:35. > :20:39.attractive, because if you were to get rid of the Assembly, you would
:20:40. > :20:45.have a ?25 million saving, including the MLAs, and once you include their
:20:46. > :20:49.constituency costs, running the offices and their constituency
:20:50. > :20:53.staff, that runs to about ?43 million. But the reality is that
:20:54. > :21:01.would mean that London were making decisions, not people in Northern
:21:02. > :21:04.Ireland, and that might not work out well for us at all. So that is
:21:05. > :21:06.something the politicians we want to avoid. Which brings us to the next
:21:07. > :21:09.option, they will be forced into some sort of a deal. But that
:21:10. > :21:13.depends on the DUP and Sinn Fein coming together to agree they can
:21:14. > :21:17.have a first and a Deputy First Minister from those parties, or it
:21:18. > :21:22.could also mean that potentially you could have a joint office of First
:21:23. > :21:28.Minister. Those are all options, it will all depend on the negotiations.
:21:29. > :21:31.If they get past the Arlene Foster issue, then they've got to do some
:21:32. > :21:36.type of deal on Irish language? Arlene Foster said she -- it is
:21:37. > :21:42.never happening under her watch. I think that was the one she probably
:21:43. > :21:46.regrets the most, that crocodile, backfired so badly. Sinn Fein took
:21:47. > :21:50.ownership of that comment, the crocodile became the outfit of the
:21:51. > :21:55.election. As thick with hindsight I don't think she would have made
:21:56. > :21:59.those comments been as hard line. Because that motivated young
:22:00. > :22:02.nationalists to get out and vote. But the DUP said an Irish language
:22:03. > :22:11.act will never happen under Arlene Foster's watch. The DUP will have to
:22:12. > :22:15.point -- I think it was before they went into Government they said there
:22:16. > :22:19.would never be a coalition with Sinn Fein, and here we are. But I think
:22:20. > :22:25.the challenge for the DUP is limited to energise a generation in working
:22:26. > :22:28.class loyalist areas. I think many sections of working time unionism
:22:29. > :22:32.and loyalism have been left behind by the peace process. And I think
:22:33. > :22:37.the challenge for the DUP and unionism in general is to go into
:22:38. > :22:42.those communities, and energise those communities. And give them a
:22:43. > :22:48.vision going forward. How angry is loyalism? Well, Stephen, a lot of
:22:49. > :22:54.people within loyalism feel they have been left out in the process
:22:55. > :23:00.for a lot of years. But I think the election result was a wake-up call
:23:01. > :23:08.for unionism. I believe that we lost 16 out of a possible 18 votes --
:23:09. > :23:12.seats. So I think Arlene Foster, then is to be a role good look at
:23:13. > :23:18.how the unionist parties are developing. The Ulster Unionists,
:23:19. > :23:22.one of the things was "Country before party". I would link -- like
:23:23. > :23:27.to think within Unison, we need to have a good look at how we have got
:23:28. > :23:34.five or six political parties going into elections... But do you want to
:23:35. > :23:38.see the DUP, in order to get devolution up and going again, do
:23:39. > :23:43.you think that they should be optimising, and at the end of the
:23:44. > :23:50.day, buckling to some of these Sinn Fein demands, Sinn Fein using the
:23:51. > :23:56.word demand, not me. Or do you think they need to stand up to Sinn Fein?
:23:57. > :24:00.What is better for this country. Personally, there are two ways of
:24:01. > :24:04.looking at it as far as I am concerned. As a unionist and a
:24:05. > :24:10.loyalist I don't like being dictated to by anyone. Immaterial of -- of
:24:11. > :24:14.who it is. But Sinn Fein are laying red lines down for a party that has
:24:15. > :24:21.been elected as the largest party. They've made the pounds about Sinn
:24:22. > :24:26.Fein. -- you have made the points. People within the DUP and UUP and
:24:27. > :24:29.loyalism, have had to sit down with people who previously were engaged
:24:30. > :24:34.in the murder of their people. And vice versa. But there is very few
:24:35. > :24:39.loyalists in there, representing the political arena. The whole point of
:24:40. > :24:45.it is, Sinn Fein have dug their heels in. And loyalism and unionism
:24:46. > :24:49.do not want to give in to what their demands are. Because they destroyed
:24:50. > :24:52.this country and the fabric of this country for years, and there was a
:24:53. > :24:59.guy on your programme the other morning said, loyalism and unionism
:25:00. > :25:04.cannot be dictated to by Sinn Fein, in telling us who we should have as
:25:05. > :25:10.our First Minister. But if you continue with that threat, there is
:25:11. > :25:15.not going to be a Government here. That is direct rule. But that would
:25:16. > :25:20.be the making of Sinn Fein, not the DUP. Their choice is either to back
:25:21. > :25:27.off and let Arlene Foster... Are you not angry about the money wasted
:25:28. > :25:36.under our age I? -- the renewable heat initiative? Wire, as I said the
:25:37. > :25:41.other morning, why would you want to deal with somebody before the fat
:25:42. > :25:49.instead of after-the-fact? -- the fact. If anybody else is proven to
:25:50. > :25:53.be guilty, they can be dealt with. What is Sinn Fein about? Is this
:25:54. > :25:57.then trying to play to their electorate, and tried to play to
:25:58. > :26:05.their constituency, to prove to them they have control over a section of
:26:06. > :26:08.unionism? Lady here. You all talk about Orange versus green, but Sinn
:26:09. > :26:14.Fein have tried to reach out to the other side of the community. Martin
:26:15. > :26:19.McGuinness met the Queen. What have the DUP done? Arlene Foster referred
:26:20. > :26:23.to Irish speakers as crocodiles. Gregory Campbell stood in storm
:26:24. > :26:25.years ago there and basically mock the language. How can they represent
:26:26. > :26:43.me as a young Irish nationalist? Sinn Fein are exceptional at making
:26:44. > :26:47.grand gestures. And some people are foolish enough to believe that they
:26:48. > :26:51.make these reconciliation gestures because they actually have woken up
:26:52. > :26:55.one day and decided what we did was wrong, we want to make peace. They
:26:56. > :27:01.make them because this is the next phase of struggle for them. So I do
:27:02. > :27:06.not buy this gestures, they are all about seeking to advance political
:27:07. > :27:13.aims under the cloak of equality. I have to disagree with that. One of
:27:14. > :27:15.the things unionism -- republicanism -- republicanism has, is the
:27:16. > :27:22.solution that you do makes gestures. It is all about educating and
:27:23. > :27:25.bringing along your own community, Martin McGuinness meeting the
:27:26. > :27:34.British Queen and other things, I can recall him introducing -- saying
:27:35. > :27:40.that to this man, this is the city of Londonderry. Now, I can't imagine
:27:41. > :27:44.a DUP minister bringing in -- saying, you have to respect that
:27:45. > :27:47.this is what the city is called. That is important. I think some of
:27:48. > :27:52.the discussion we've had to write about some of the Contra misers,
:27:53. > :27:57.one, but Chris referred to, was the notion of moving from the First
:27:58. > :28:03.Minister and Deputy fitness minister to join First Minister. We are 2000
:28:04. > :28:07.runs away -- 2000 nationalists switching from SDLP to Sinn Fein.
:28:08. > :28:11.Because of the two parties had had the same number of seats and Sinn
:28:12. > :28:17.Fein had more votes. Sinn Fein would be claiming the First Minister.
:28:18. > :28:21.That's where we are now. They are in deadlock now, and plan to get a
:28:22. > :28:26.sense from all of you and from you at home actually through Twitter
:28:27. > :28:35.etc, how much compromise do what these bodies to actually make? Lady
:28:36. > :28:39.here in the red. -- these parties. I really think Arlene Foster should
:28:40. > :28:45.step aside. If I was a DUP politician, I would be extremely
:28:46. > :28:50.annoyed, no matter what I try to achieve as a minister. We are kind
:28:51. > :28:54.of court in an Arlene Foster show. It is all about her at the moment.
:28:55. > :29:01.She should show a bit of humility and step aside, and find... That is
:29:02. > :29:05.a choice for the DUP and some people within unionism. Do they sacrifice
:29:06. > :29:13.Arlene Foster? Or do they stand tall, beside her?
:29:14. > :29:21.I think she should step aside. Gentleman talked about what unionism
:29:22. > :29:29.needs to do and I think you need to show a bit of leadership and Arlene
:29:30. > :29:33.should step aside. We spent the night talking about Sinn Fein and
:29:34. > :29:38.DUP and I don't see how we can ever expect this country to move forward
:29:39. > :29:43.with neither party wants to work with each other. We needed to go
:29:44. > :29:47.with something else, everyone knew schools and hospitals, we need to
:29:48. > :29:52.stop orange and green and of those are the two parties that are
:29:53. > :30:03.standing up their meat to change it and vote differently for the next
:30:04. > :30:12.generation. Chris, is a deal possible or are they farther apart
:30:13. > :30:14.since the result? They are having conversations to work out where each
:30:15. > :30:22.understands but we don't know whether there will be a deal for
:30:23. > :30:29.another couple of weeks. It could be a year? We are talking about the
:30:30. > :30:32.savings of direct rule but the reality has those are people out of
:30:33. > :30:42.a job and other people out of a job and that is not good for anybody.
:30:43. > :30:44.They are going to have to be uncomfortable compromises because
:30:45. > :30:49.the reality is that sort of this audiences about the votes, the DUP
:30:50. > :30:53.and Sinn Fein came out in bigger numbers to support those parties,
:30:54. > :30:57.they now have a responsibility upon them to be an imposition position
:30:58. > :31:02.where they actually do the job and get a deal and get back into
:31:03. > :31:11.Government. I want to hear more voices from the audience. She
:31:12. > :31:16.militates shows a great source of strength and we don't care what
:31:17. > :31:19.party will shortly bet of humility but what we have to think about is
:31:20. > :31:23.the people who are suffering and you said it could be a year, many people
:31:24. > :31:31.here don't have a year or even a week, we are survival is of
:31:32. > :31:34.institutional abuse and waited for a lifetime on the results of the
:31:35. > :31:39.historical institutional abuse enquiry and they are still make you
:31:40. > :31:51.any Government and no sign of anyone getting together for the RHI
:31:52. > :31:55.redress. I don't see why Arlene Foster should step down. People
:31:56. > :31:58.voted for and because they wanted her, she has done anything, one
:31:59. > :32:05.mistake and they haven't even proved it. There are other people involved
:32:06. > :32:14.as well. They are laughing because that is the way Northern Ireland is
:32:15. > :32:18.but I think honestly that the us it is orange and green at the end of
:32:19. > :32:29.the day, Arlene Foster as a reader and that is to be packed and voted
:32:30. > :32:35.for. Sinn Fein and tolerating her? We didn't want to tolerate Martin
:32:36. > :32:39.McGuinness but we did. Sinn Fein are telling you that you will not have a
:32:40. > :32:44.Government in Northern Ireland if Arlene Foster as First Minister. It
:32:45. > :32:54.doesn't matter if it is one vote, we are still there. OK. It's an
:32:55. > :32:56.interesting way to end that and you will continue talking about it on
:32:57. > :33:02.twitter tonight as well. Now, my next guest is
:33:03. > :33:05.a remarkable young woman Vicky Balch was having a fun day
:33:06. > :33:09.out with her boyfriend in Alton Towers theme park,
:33:10. > :33:11.when tragedy struck - leaving her in hospital facing
:33:12. > :33:14.the amputation of one of her legs. Let's remind ourselves
:33:15. > :33:27.of what happened that day. For people are seriously injured in
:33:28. > :33:36.a roller-coaster crash at Alton Towers. It should trash and it could
:33:37. > :33:42.have been travelling at speeds of 50 mph. Two carriages have collided and
:33:43. > :33:49.trapped on a stretch of track well emergency crews build a platform.
:33:50. > :34:04.Please welcome Vicky Balch. APPLAUSE
:34:05. > :34:13.It is quite an iconic image that because I remembered on television
:34:14. > :34:21.and could you come a little closer into the light. It is interesting
:34:22. > :34:27.that it touched a chord with me because lots of us have been on
:34:28. > :34:30.those fun raids and we have a notion in the back cover header that
:34:31. > :34:37.something can go wrong and we're not going anywhere near them. Were you
:34:38. > :34:40.ever frightened of them? I loved the adrenaline and doing things like
:34:41. > :34:43.that but I had never thought anything would ever go wrong because
:34:44. > :34:55.it doesn't happen to you or anyone you know. What was the moment when
:34:56. > :35:00.you realised? Well I was in a queue, I had a funny feeling and was very
:35:01. > :35:05.uncomfortable and I don't get scared for these rates usually so I just
:35:06. > :35:09.felt very uncomfortable, something that I knew wasn't quite right and
:35:10. > :35:16.we got on and off the right multiple times and we were at the top of the
:35:17. > :35:24.first hill why? Something was happening on the rate and they were
:35:25. > :35:30.reducing acute aims. Can you still remember the time where you knew you
:35:31. > :35:35.were in trouble? I remember everything. What I think was
:35:36. > :35:40.everything, I remember the pain of it first leading into her legs and I
:35:41. > :35:42.passed out for a short time and remember swaying and waiting for
:35:43. > :35:49.someone to come out. It was horrible. Review and much pain and
:35:50. > :35:55.was the adrenaline pumping through your body? I was in pain as soon as
:35:56. > :36:05.we head to the other car, as soon as it went through my legs the pain was
:36:06. > :36:12.and is favourable. Delete -- indescribable and a member holding
:36:13. > :36:16.on for dear life. This has obviously been a life changing moment for you
:36:17. > :36:25.and I guess that time and your life relies you are losing a leg, what
:36:26. > :36:30.does your brain do? While I was on the right, I looked down and out
:36:31. > :36:33.what is my life going to be known? I'm not going to be able to do
:36:34. > :36:38.anything, they don't want to be here and I am in so much pain and an
:36:39. > :36:43.hospital they tried to save my leg and I was in absolute agony saw this
:36:44. > :36:50.little was taken. Did they discuss it with you? I was asking lots of
:36:51. > :36:53.questions but I was so much medication that I was drifting in
:36:54. > :36:57.and out and I would be falling asleep when people were speaking to
:36:58. > :37:04.me. Did they ask you if they could take your leg? Because they tried
:37:05. > :37:10.reconstructing my leg, if something went wrong they might have to
:37:11. > :37:14.amputate but at a thought it wasn't going to happen and it just had to
:37:15. > :37:20.warn me but in the end and infection went through to the bone and they
:37:21. > :37:29.have to amputate. Just take away rather than weaken me up. Coming to
:37:30. > :37:47.terms with that, a beautiful young woman loses her legs. I was very
:37:48. > :37:51.obsessed but I would rather walk better than happy looking like a
:37:52. > :37:59.real leg, it's not a real lake and I am proved of what I have been
:38:00. > :38:03.through. And watching some of these rehab shots and is there much
:38:04. > :38:10.training and rehearsing needed to learn how to walk on it? The legs
:38:11. > :38:14.are different so I have a different leg now than then and you have to
:38:15. > :38:21.learn to walk again and trust that leg. With that leg and that video I
:38:22. > :38:31.was falling over all the time I was really hurting myself because of the
:38:32. > :38:41.quality of the lake. -- leg. Did you lose any identity losing your leg?
:38:42. > :38:46.Did you feel less beautiful,? I did. The first thing I said to my mum was
:38:47. > :38:50.who is going to want me know. I'm not going to be able to do but I
:38:51. > :38:54.used to do our live my life like I used to, who is going to want me. We
:38:55. > :38:59.are now watching these pictures of you and very sexy situations where
:39:00. > :39:05.you are putting yourself out there and saying this is me and a sexual
:39:06. > :39:13.and beautiful woman, what made you take these? It was for my own
:39:14. > :39:17.confidence especially because it's that boost my confidence because and
:39:18. > :39:23.thought I would never look like I used to it and was a lot to do with
:39:24. > :39:28.how society is, you need to act a certain way and need to look a
:39:29. > :39:31.certain way and even growing up I believed that so I want to show that
:39:32. > :39:37.it doesn't matter what you are doing. This is more than showing.
:39:38. > :39:45.This is you literally putting yourself out there. I've had a lot
:39:46. > :39:49.of really good response from this and I have had people saying that I
:39:50. > :39:54.can go out and walk around town known and I don't make a skirt and
:39:55. > :40:03.showing my leg and what I wanted to. You have had online abuse? People
:40:04. > :40:07.said I was milking it and they said horrible nasty things but everyone
:40:08. > :40:11.is going to have their opinion. If someone doesn't like it then it
:40:12. > :40:17.would have to look at it. That is a confidence that is admirable but do
:40:18. > :40:24.you really always feel like that you wobble Sundays? I have lot of
:40:25. > :40:30.wobbles. Some days it just gets to me where I am just, if I am and a
:40:31. > :40:35.low mood enemy then it gets to me a bit more but most of the time I just
:40:36. > :40:39.laugh at him because some of the comments I have had a just
:40:40. > :40:47.hilarious. You feel much resentment against those who were responsible
:40:48. > :40:50.for your safety? It wasn't anyone's fault as such, it was to do with
:40:51. > :41:00.training and different things like that so not at all. Would you get on
:41:01. > :41:06.one again? Probably not. I don't like things to beat me but they
:41:07. > :41:09.don't bother me. I think it is pretty amazing that you are not just
:41:10. > :41:20.recovered from something like that but you send a message out to the
:41:21. > :41:25.rest of us which is and I mean this, if you go through that it is so easy
:41:26. > :41:29.to lie back and feel sorry for yourself, not only are you literally
:41:30. > :41:35.standing up again, you are putting yourself in those photos to say this
:41:36. > :41:40.is who I am, taking my clothes off, if you don't like it, I don't care,
:41:41. > :41:44.I am a sexy woman and for that I think it is a very powerful message
:41:45. > :41:54.and I am so glad you came here tonight. Thank you. With the
:41:55. > :42:03.gentleman Vicky Balch. -- ladies and gentlemen.
:42:04. > :42:04.as you probably know it's International Women's Day.
:42:05. > :42:07.And earlier this week the House of Commons debated
:42:08. > :42:08.whether the law needs to be changed
:42:09. > :42:10.in relation to companies requiring female staff
:42:11. > :42:14.after a petition was signed by more than 150,000 people.
:42:15. > :42:16.We'll talk about that in just a second,
:42:17. > :42:19.what the people on the streets of Belfast had to say
:42:20. > :42:34.Is it all right for women to be told to wear to work? Noel, why should
:42:35. > :42:41.they. I prefer to wear heels, I feel more feminine and then. I put up
:42:42. > :42:44.with them being uncomfortable. If someone said woman looked more
:42:45. > :42:50.glamorous and high heels, what would you say? I would say it was right
:42:51. > :42:56.but whether you want to be glamorous and what our business, it depends. I
:42:57. > :43:01.can see sometimes you might want women to wear high heels because
:43:02. > :43:05.they are more attractive. There should be a stance to see what
:43:06. > :43:10.employers can get away with telling women to do and what they can't and
:43:11. > :43:16.I think it should be made illegal. Could Stephen Nolan pull off a pair
:43:17. > :43:25.of high heels? He would be a wee bit top-heavy for that. He ought to try
:43:26. > :43:28.walking up and down stairs and a pair of heels. At the difficult to
:43:29. > :43:54.walk on? Yeah, you try it. I heard you all laughing about me
:43:55. > :43:57.being top-heavy! Is that me being top-heavy up here? I wouldn't like
:43:58. > :43:59.to say. Well, the woman who sparked
:44:00. > :44:02.the controversy is Nicola Thorp - she was sent home from work
:44:03. > :44:04.without pay for wearing flat shoes after being told she had
:44:05. > :44:24.to wear 2-4 inch heels. So we told you, you do not wear high
:44:25. > :44:28.heels, you are not getting paid? -- they told you. Yes, I turn up in
:44:29. > :44:35.flat shoes, and they said you have to wear four inch heels or you do
:44:36. > :44:40.not work here at all. Either go out and buy a pair, or the sending you
:44:41. > :44:47.on your way. Did you wear high heels much, for fun or through your
:44:48. > :44:52.choice? Yes, I wear them when I want to look attractive. That could be on
:44:53. > :44:58.a night out, on a date, for an event, but not necessarily for work.
:44:59. > :45:03.And how -- in what way did they tell you, wear them or else? They just
:45:04. > :45:07.wouldn't let me go out on the floor. I pointed to a male colleague who
:45:08. > :45:13.was wearing small, flat shoes, and said, you are not sending him home.
:45:14. > :45:18.So this is a sexism issue. I question why they felt so
:45:19. > :45:22.passionately about my footwear. She said, I cannot let you work, you
:45:23. > :45:37.have to leave. So much out of the building. I love heels. But should
:45:38. > :45:41.she be forced to wear them? Depending on the job. I have worn
:45:42. > :45:47.heels all my life. And I love wearing them. I think they give a
:45:48. > :45:51.nice look, and it is for yourself, you wear them for yourself. But the
:45:52. > :45:55.discussion is not whether you like wearing them or not, it is whether
:45:56. > :46:01.someone who doesn't want to wear them, should be forced to wear them.
:46:02. > :46:08.If it is part of the dress code, in the workplace, then yes, I think you
:46:09. > :46:12.need to wear them. I don't think employers should be allowed to
:46:13. > :46:17.compel their staff to wear high heels. There is no equivalent with
:46:18. > :46:24.men. Well, the BBC compels me to wear a suit. I cannot wear a shell
:46:25. > :46:27.suit! There is nothing you are being compelled to wear that is
:46:28. > :46:34.potentially painful for you. I am not against high heels... But they
:46:35. > :46:37.are actually really bad for the body. They have been proved over and
:46:38. > :46:42.over again to be bad for your back on your knees. If you want to wear
:46:43. > :46:47.them, no bother, but there is no way an employer should be saying, you
:46:48. > :46:58.have to wear these to do your job. But you are saying if it is part of
:46:59. > :47:08.the dress code, tough? I think two to four inch heels is appropriate.
:47:09. > :47:19.It's fine. I accept it! -- accept it!
:47:20. > :47:27.I'm not going to try and debate how many inches makes you attractive.
:47:28. > :47:37.Listen, I haven't dared to go above three inches! Look... No matter how
:47:38. > :47:41.high the heel is, a heel is a heel. It is something that has been
:47:42. > :47:46.designed in terms of women's fashion, to make you look more
:47:47. > :47:49.attractive. It is symbolic of femininity. My argument was, why
:47:50. > :47:53.would I need to wear something feminine in order to do a job that
:47:54. > :47:59.was non-gender specific? You said when you want to feel attractive,
:48:00. > :48:05.just educate me here. It is not my field of expertise. Wider high heels
:48:06. > :48:12.make you sexy? There was someone in the office today, and I -- and they
:48:13. > :48:19.said, apparently they raise a woman up and stick her bottom out. Is that
:48:20. > :48:24.what they do? Me personally, I don't look like Jessica Rabbit, I look
:48:25. > :48:28.more like a T Rex. That is why I do not choose to wear them. But yes,
:48:29. > :48:32.there is something to be said for being a little bit taller and more
:48:33. > :48:36.authoritative, but they made a decision a few years ago that if a
:48:37. > :48:42.pair of high heels helped me command authority, maybe I don't want to. So
:48:43. > :48:46.you think, it was actually an agency employee, but do you think that the
:48:47. > :48:50.people who forced her and said you are not being paid unless you were
:48:51. > :48:55.those at least two inch high heels, they were right? She should have
:48:56. > :49:01.been paid. But you agree she should have been sent home without them? If
:49:02. > :49:06.it is part of the dress code, I think she should... But it shouldn't
:49:07. > :49:12.be part of the dress code. I think high heels make you think -- make
:49:13. > :49:16.you feel more comfortable. -- confident. But it should be their
:49:17. > :49:22.choice, why should it be imposed on them. This is crazy. I am a
:49:23. > :49:27.glamorous girl, I love heels, I have multiple jobs, some of which require
:49:28. > :49:32.you to dress smart and stuff like that, but my employers would always
:49:33. > :49:35.say always make sure you're comfortable nicely. But I was
:49:36. > :49:40.looking at statistics tonight, and this woman says that it is fine,
:49:41. > :49:46.three inches and staff. 26% of the body weight on your body, it only up
:49:47. > :49:52.to 26% by wearing three inch heels. So when you go to 45 inches, you are
:49:53. > :49:55.putting 76% of your body weight straining on your knees, your
:49:56. > :50:09.ankles. This can lead to problems on your spine. It's completely sexist,
:50:10. > :50:13.it dress code... -- a dress code. I think the hill was designed for a
:50:14. > :50:24.woman. Men couldn't work them. But there is no male equivalent. A tyre
:50:25. > :50:32.is not about sexualising the body. Go ahead. I am insulin-dependent, a
:50:33. > :50:38.diabetic. Part of my condition would have severe foot pain and numbness.
:50:39. > :50:41.I cannot wear heels, I have to wear flat, comfortable shoes. If they
:50:42. > :50:50.workplace told me to wear heels, I could not work there. I don't think
:50:51. > :50:55.it should be illegal for an employer to expect a woman to wear high
:50:56. > :50:59.heels. If the employer has a good reason... What could that be? That's
:51:00. > :51:08.the question you've got to ask the employer. But there are no good
:51:09. > :51:13.reasons! I had to follow a dress code in various jobs. But you have
:51:14. > :51:20.never had to wear high heels. Can you come up with a reason an
:51:21. > :51:30.employer might have? Some people like high hills. -- high heels. What
:51:31. > :51:35.is the grin about? This is about women, when they are at work, should
:51:36. > :51:42.they be forced to wear something? Some employers want their staff to
:51:43. > :51:50.wear them. But that is not OK. It is hard to get a job... If your boss
:51:51. > :51:54.wants you, you have to do it. Are you serious?! Yellow Macri is, there
:51:55. > :52:01.are a lot of people cannot get work. It is only a dress code. -- there
:52:02. > :52:07.are a lot of people who cannot get work. Would you wear anything, sexy
:52:08. > :52:16.boy, to get a job? Yellow macro I do not need to. -- I do not need to.
:52:17. > :52:21.This is complete nonsense. You should wear whatever you think is
:52:22. > :52:27.appropriate for your work. But you cannot! Even before work, schools
:52:28. > :52:35.dictate a school uniform, the BBC is dictating to be tonight but I cannot
:52:36. > :52:42.come in, I'd like to wear jeans halfway back -- down my backside
:52:43. > :52:47.with a dirty T-shirt and no shoes. But I think we have to be more
:52:48. > :52:51.sensible about it. We need a dress code, yes. We did something that
:52:52. > :52:56.fits our role in whatever business we are in. For you in a suit, for
:52:57. > :53:04.me, I have to work something comfortable, I am in a lab all day.
:53:05. > :53:12.In that T-shirt?! What does that say "Dastardly and Mutley"? If a man
:53:13. > :53:16.doesn't have to go in wearing high heels, there is no viable reason why
:53:17. > :53:23.that should be happening in 21st-century Britain. Absolutely. I
:53:24. > :53:35.agree with this lady here with her condition. For health reasons. But
:53:36. > :53:42.this guy says you should resist -- you should go with what your
:53:43. > :53:49.employer says. If you are therefore a receptionist, two to three inch
:53:50. > :53:55.heels, go for it. Receptionists are supposed to look professional, yes?
:53:56. > :53:58.Not glamorous or sexy. What's wrong with smart flat shoes? What's wrong
:53:59. > :54:19.with these? I'm just thinking, how did you get
:54:20. > :54:23.your legs up that high?! They are smart, though. Go ahead. I think
:54:24. > :54:33.it's completely absurd. Why other two different dress codes for men
:54:34. > :54:40.and women? , on! As far as I'm concerned, they are capitalising on
:54:41. > :54:44.a woman's good looks to more money. That is a good point. It's great
:54:45. > :54:47.that so many men are making these plans. Do not think there are
:54:48. > :54:52.reasonable dress codes between men and women? It depends where you
:54:53. > :54:56.work, at various. But you cannot exploit someone, you cannot expect
:54:57. > :55:03.them to wear specific clothing just to benefit your business. I looked
:55:04. > :55:06.through some of the rules, Nicola. One of the rules also was, don't
:55:07. > :55:12.come out on the floor without make-up. Yes. At least five items of
:55:13. > :55:18.make up with specific shades of lipstick as well. And it's not just
:55:19. > :55:20.a sexism issue, they also insisted that women of colour had their hair
:55:21. > :55:27.chemically straitened because the natural hair was not professional
:55:28. > :55:31.enough. That is truthful. Is it reasonable to force women to wear
:55:32. > :55:36.make-up in certain jobs? What's the difference between choosing make up
:55:37. > :55:42.and choosing shoes? I am selling high hills were designed for a woman
:55:43. > :55:46.for an -- empowerment. How is it empowering a woman to force you to
:55:47. > :55:49.do something against her will. If you put high heels on, and stand up,
:55:50. > :55:58.you are feeling very strong about yourself. It is a choice that you
:55:59. > :56:05.make. Not if you are forced. If it was a choice, we would not be having
:56:06. > :56:08.a discussion. When I wear high heels, you might feel empowered, but
:56:09. > :56:21.the second you start walking, you feel vulnerable. By all means, make
:56:22. > :56:29.your choice, but it's not for me. I really like you! You are very
:56:30. > :56:32.confident. Yes, you Nicola. Thank you, I don't need heels to make me
:56:33. > :56:38.feel more confident! We said to be very, very venturing into territory
:56:39. > :56:42.now of women being employed more than -- for their looks than their
:56:43. > :56:47.ability. It seems to me that they are saying if you were heels, you
:56:48. > :56:55.can do the job. If you are the best person, why should you have to wear
:56:56. > :56:59.heels as part of that job? Is there anybody else in the audience apart
:57:00. > :57:06.from boy wonder here who thinks it is OK for an employer to force you
:57:07. > :57:14.to wear them? You have to adhere to a school uniform, not a school
:57:15. > :57:19.uniform, a staff uniform. Go ahead. Never mind the dress code, this lady
:57:20. > :57:22.here with a nice blonde hair, but loves her high heels. What is she
:57:23. > :57:31.going to do whenever she has to get bunions sorted out? I have that
:57:32. > :57:36.problem already. And I still wear my high heels. And all the employer is
:57:37. > :57:41.quick to pay for medical conditions to be treated in hospital? I have
:57:42. > :57:48.had that problem, and sorted it out myself. I just love my heels.
:57:49. > :57:54.Nothing wrong with it. Well, maybe in another few years.
:57:55. > :58:04.I don't actually know what a bunion is! It is a growth of the side of
:58:05. > :58:12.your food. Very quickly, go ahead. I don't wear high heels in my personal
:58:13. > :58:16.life or my work, and I work as a secretary, receptionist. I don't
:58:17. > :58:21.think I've felt less confident than when I am wearing heels and wobbling
:58:22. > :58:26.all over the place. It is a really interesting discussion, on
:58:27. > :58:31.International Women's Day. Thank you so, so much for coming in. Thank you
:58:32. > :58:35.for watching tonight as well. Hope you've enjoyed the show tonight.
:58:36. > :58:58.We'll see you tomorrow on the radio. Goodbye, everybody!
:58:59. > :59:03."are a panel of experts, who will analyse