Episode 4

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0:00:02 > 0:00:04Tonight: After ten months of talks...

0:00:04 > 0:00:05No deal.

0:00:05 > 0:00:08Better still, the politicians won't even tell us what they're

0:00:08 > 0:00:11still disagreeing about.

0:00:11 > 0:00:14Also on the programme: Weinstein, Spacey,

0:00:14 > 0:00:21Westminster's 'dirty dossiers'.

0:00:21 > 0:00:31We'll be talking about the sexual harassment scandals.

0:00:41 > 0:00:50APPLAUSE

0:00:53 > 0:00:57Good evening. We want an audience ready to talk and ready to know what

0:00:57 > 0:01:01is going on up on the hill.

0:01:01 > 0:01:03There ain't no deal, there ain't no government

0:01:03 > 0:01:04in Northern Ireland.

0:01:04 > 0:01:07Dress it up whatever way you want, but that's the reality.

0:01:07 > 0:01:09No locally accountable people that you can look

0:01:09 > 0:01:17into the whites of their eyes, because they haven't got the power.

0:01:17 > 0:01:24Here's James Brokenshire this morning.

0:01:24 > 0:01:29As I have outlined previously, there are consequences to not being able

0:01:29 > 0:01:33to bring forward this legislation this week. It is the

0:01:33 > 0:01:39responsibilities of the parties to form an executive to take forward

0:01:39 > 0:01:44its own budget. But, as I have indicated, it is now very unlikely

0:01:44 > 0:01:49that an executive will be in place, within a timetable to pass a budget

0:01:49 > 0:01:53by the end of November.

0:01:53 > 0:01:57And yet the mixed messages continue.

0:01:57 > 0:01:58Only yesterday, Sinn Fein's Conor Murphy spelled

0:01:58 > 0:02:03things out crystal clear.

0:02:03 > 0:02:08We have made it clear that if the British Secretary of State stands in

0:02:08 > 0:02:12the House of Commons to move the budget, but is clear that this phase

0:02:12 > 0:02:15of the talks has failed.

0:02:15 > 0:02:17Conor Murphy is saying this phase has failed.

0:02:17 > 0:02:19It's over, it's gone.

0:02:19 > 0:02:29And yet Arlene Foster seems to think the talks can continue.

0:02:30 > 0:02:34It is right the Secretary of State has said he has to go and put a

0:02:34 > 0:02:38budget in place. The people of Northern Ireland need to have their

0:02:38 > 0:02:42public services on a legal footing and they need to have the money to

0:02:42 > 0:02:46spend in relation to that. It is writing moves ahead with that. It

0:02:46 > 0:02:50doesn't stop was continuing to engage with Sinn Fein and try to

0:02:50 > 0:02:58find a solution to the problems we have.

0:02:58 > 0:03:03What is going on?These people will never agree. We make it sound as

0:03:03 > 0:03:09though this is astonishing that they have difficulty now. They have had

0:03:09 > 0:03:13difficulty from day one. Constructive ambiguity, three people

0:03:13 > 0:03:16saying entirely different things about the same statement. They are

0:03:16 > 0:03:20not speaking to each other. It doesn't matter, I still think they

0:03:20 > 0:03:24will stick something together, but it doesn't matter because it will

0:03:24 > 0:03:28not withstand contact with the first difficulty. That could be six months

0:03:28 > 0:03:33later or three months later. It gives no pleasure in saying this, I

0:03:33 > 0:03:36think the whole process began is now dead. I don't think it is possible

0:03:36 > 0:03:44for either the DUP and Sinn Fein, however you want to cut the cookie,

0:03:44 > 0:03:48I don't think you can reconcile those differences.We think it is

0:03:48 > 0:03:56dead, gone. Conor Murphy says it is dead and over. Arlene Foster says we

0:03:56 > 0:04:00will continue talking.You can put a bit of money to health and

0:04:00 > 0:04:05education, but they are two polar opposites. He won Sinn Fein who want

0:04:05 > 0:04:10a united Ireland, how do you push those together in a compromise? It

0:04:10 > 0:04:15is not physically, politically, psychologically possible.Where the

0:04:15 > 0:04:22public being taken for fools when they were told there is momentum? I

0:04:22 > 0:04:26am hearing from sources that they didn't get anywhere close to the big

0:04:26 > 0:04:31red lines that with there ten months ago?It is difficult to answer that

0:04:31 > 0:04:37on because it has been secrecy around the switch as suited the DUP

0:04:37 > 0:04:40and Sinn Fein. It would have been a problem if they had done a

0:04:40 > 0:04:46last-minute deal because they were in a position where those supporters

0:04:46 > 0:04:50thought they weren't compromising. So those supporters would have been

0:04:50 > 0:04:53up in arms. That was the difficulty. Actually whether they were just

0:04:53 > 0:04:59going through the motions, or they were moving, is difficult to tell.

0:04:59 > 0:05:03The DUP were moving on the Irish language to the extent that there

0:05:03 > 0:05:09would have been some kind of cultural act. Sinn Fein did drop,

0:05:09 > 0:05:12without saying it explicitly, it demanded Arlene Foster stand aside,

0:05:12 > 0:05:18but that has gone now.Going to the audience straightaway.My husband

0:05:18 > 0:05:22has been in hospital for 14 weeks. He's waiting to be transferred from

0:05:22 > 0:05:26one hospital to another, when is going to happen that the government

0:05:26 > 0:05:32get together because there are thousands of people on waiting list.

0:05:32 > 0:05:36As you know, it is brought up on your show every week, why can't they

0:05:36 > 0:05:40work together, get a budget, get something sorted, get the health

0:05:40 > 0:05:47system into a state where we can be proud.What is your first name?

0:05:47 > 0:05:53Catherine.Catherine, it is beyond that, they cannot tell you why they

0:05:53 > 0:05:58cannot agree. You are not entitled to know as a citizen. They tell you

0:05:58 > 0:06:02you have got to give its space, let us do the negotiations

0:06:02 > 0:06:07behind-the-scenes. In terms of the finer detail, maybe they do have to

0:06:07 > 0:06:12have space, but are you not entitled as a citizen to be told now, why

0:06:12 > 0:06:18they couldn't reach a compromise? How they got close, what they got

0:06:18 > 0:06:23closer on? It is all being kept away from people like you and your

0:06:23 > 0:06:29husband. They were invited here tonight. They think they can say no

0:06:29 > 0:06:33to me all they want, but they are saying no to you, your husband and

0:06:33 > 0:06:42every other citizen in this country, they beg for votes at election time.

0:06:42 > 0:06:45They should have it taken off them because they are not doing what they

0:06:45 > 0:06:54were voted to do. As a country we voted these people in. I stood up

0:06:54 > 0:06:58and gave them my vote, and now I wish I hadn't. They don't talk, they

0:06:58 > 0:07:04are not doing anything for this country. It is the people here, we

0:07:04 > 0:07:14are suffering.They don't understand that. The man behind you?It has got

0:07:14 > 0:07:19to a point where it is a bit of a joke now. I feel politicians, first

0:07:19 > 0:07:24of all I would like to point out I am not a fan of direct rule, I think

0:07:24 > 0:07:28it would be a disaster but the parties here have failed time and

0:07:28 > 0:07:31time again to deliver the mandate that put them there. Something along

0:07:31 > 0:07:38the lines of direct rule would give a shock for future assemblies to be

0:07:38 > 0:07:43far more stable?Is James Brokenshire I going to do something

0:07:43 > 0:07:51if there is direct rule or will he stall further?He has got a lot of

0:07:51 > 0:07:54licensed to do what he likes. He has bent over backwards, suffered

0:07:54 > 0:08:00humiliation on a scale you would not expect a minister to suffer and he

0:08:00 > 0:08:04can turn round and do anything. He can say, you had your chance, I did

0:08:04 > 0:08:11everything to give you the space. Why is he humiliated?He sets

0:08:11 > 0:08:17deadlines and let them go. He looks like a dog. It is very unkind to say

0:08:17 > 0:08:21that about a man, but he has somebody who has no particular

0:08:21 > 0:08:26initiative. That is the role he has been given. He may be a political

0:08:26 > 0:08:32wizard, but his job is essentially to be the long-suffering, patient

0:08:32 > 0:08:38Tory Brits, who is putting up with the truculence intransigent Irish.

0:08:38 > 0:08:43That is what he's doing, he is playing that role. When they do

0:08:43 > 0:08:50decide to wrap up this Sherrard, he can do whatever he likes.Do you not

0:08:50 > 0:08:53think there is potential here for a deal to be done and Northern Ireland

0:08:53 > 0:08:59to be on the right tracks?There was a virtuous circle at one time. I

0:08:59 > 0:09:02remember visiting Arlene Foster in her office when she was environment

0:09:02 > 0:09:08minister, in the first week. Conor Murphy was in the next office. There

0:09:08 > 0:09:13was a warmth in the relationship. It has all gone. We have turned it from

0:09:13 > 0:09:19one point in a virtuous circle and the votes came from doing things

0:09:19 > 0:09:23well and doing things well, to a vicious circle and doing things

0:09:23 > 0:09:26badly. Catherine said she voted for them to do a job, a lot of people

0:09:26 > 0:09:31voted for them not to do the job. A lot of people voted to go in and

0:09:31 > 0:09:37poke the eye of the opposition.They voted the Sinn Fein and the DUP

0:09:37 > 0:09:40unspecific mandates. They have been briefing journalists this week to

0:09:40 > 0:09:44said there was no deal on the equality issues. It was the ticket

0:09:44 > 0:09:49they stood on and the ticket that got the biggest national vote since

0:09:49 > 0:09:53the Good Friday Agreement. They will not move.People were told a couple

0:09:53 > 0:09:59of weeks ago there was an element of positivity, some momentum?As we

0:09:59 > 0:10:03came back after the summer, I think there was a chance to make a deal

0:10:03 > 0:10:09then. But it is Arlene Foster's problem, not Sinn Fein. They have

0:10:09 > 0:10:13laid out our position, they will not move from that. Arlene Foster had a

0:10:13 > 0:10:17chance to make a deal on the Irish language act and the culture act,

0:10:17 > 0:10:23she has gone hard line and now she has no chance of getting a deal now.

0:10:23 > 0:10:27I think the leaderships of Sinn Fein and the DUP would potentially be

0:10:27 > 0:10:33able to strike a deal. The real issue is the people of Northern

0:10:33 > 0:10:36Ireland have said they don't want this, they have endorsed and

0:10:36 > 0:10:45supported what has happened.Let me talk about this one more time and

0:10:45 > 0:10:49this is a genuine question to all of you watching tonight.

0:10:49 > 0:10:54is it OK that the politicians are not telling you about

0:10:54 > 0:11:02these negotiations?

0:11:02 > 0:11:09Is it all right to say, sorry, we will keep that to ourselves.

0:11:09 > 0:11:12We get it - give them space, we don't need the detail -

0:11:12 > 0:11:15but are you not entitled to be kept informed and know about

0:11:15 > 0:11:20the negotiations that will impact on your life?

0:11:20 > 0:11:23Are you not entitled to know where they now stand

0:11:23 > 0:11:25on these various red lines of the past ten months?

0:11:25 > 0:11:33Let me illustrate this with one example.

0:11:33 > 0:11:37Have the DUP moved on the promise that Arlene Foster gave

0:11:37 > 0:11:46to the electorate when she said this in February.

0:11:46 > 0:11:48I will never accede to allow Irish language lacked?

0:11:57 > 0:12:01Is Arlene Foster and the DUP keeping her promise that she will never

0:12:01 > 0:12:06accept that or behind the scenes, it is the DUP watering down that

0:12:06 > 0:12:14promise? You don't know because they will not tell you. A stand-alone

0:12:14 > 0:12:17Irish Language Act, is that different from a language act, you

0:12:17 > 0:12:22don't know because they won't tell you. And Sinn Fein are keeping you

0:12:22 > 0:12:26in the dark. Are they negotiating the promise Gerry Adams made about

0:12:26 > 0:12:30Irish language. Let's have a looked.

0:12:35 > 0:12:38So what are they negotiating behind the scenes? Why will they not tell

0:12:38 > 0:12:47you?What can they be saying?How many times? It is respect for these

0:12:47 > 0:12:49people and everybody watching that they think they don't have to tell

0:12:49 > 0:12:54them!If you imagine there would be any substance, I can't imagine how

0:12:54 > 0:12:57boring it must be for the politicians themselves to sit at a

0:12:57 > 0:13:03table and say Irish Language Act, stand-alone, not stand-alone.Legacy

0:13:03 > 0:13:07is a big stumbling block in the consultation on legacy has the start

0:13:07 > 0:13:13and the DUP before the 2015 election stopped the money for Legacy

0:13:13 > 0:13:19inquest. Sinn Fein were briefing people saying that Legacy was a

0:13:19 > 0:13:28stumbling block.And we have not even got yet to RHI. If Sinn Fein

0:13:28 > 0:13:31still sticking to the promised they would not go into government again

0:13:31 > 0:13:34if Arlene Foster was proposed as First Minister or can they just

0:13:34 > 0:13:38forget about that?If they somehow get a deal done, that has been

0:13:38 > 0:13:44settled. I think it has been. You do not say, we have done this, but you

0:13:44 > 0:13:49cannot be First Minister, that is not going to happen. They promised

0:13:49 > 0:13:53it. They promised everything, nobody gives a dam! You say about not

0:13:53 > 0:14:00telling the public.No, look at this graphic. You seem to think it is OK

0:14:00 > 0:14:07this happens in Northern Ireland. Look at this on much the fourth. --

0:14:07 > 0:14:08marched forth.

0:14:12 > 0:14:16That is RHI. Is there a secret negotiation going on which means

0:14:16 > 0:14:20Sinn Fein is not honouring that? Let's not call it a secret

0:14:20 > 0:14:26negotiation. There is quite clearly an understanding and that has been

0:14:26 > 0:14:30in place from the beginning. This is no longer about the RHI. When we

0:14:30 > 0:14:36talk along about the trust, bear in mind a year ago Martin McGuinness,

0:14:36 > 0:14:39Arlene Foster wrote a joint article published not in the local newspaper

0:14:39 > 0:14:43saying how wonderful things work of the relationship between the macro

0:14:43 > 0:14:47and Sinn Fein was better than ever and we were going forward to a

0:14:47 > 0:14:50brand-new wonderful world of Northern Ireland. Six weeks later,

0:14:50 > 0:14:55RHI hit, that was not the killer damage, the killer damage was the

0:14:55 > 0:14:59resignation letter of Martin McGuinness which said the DUP do not

0:14:59 > 0:15:02honour anything, they cannot be trusted, they have no interest in

0:15:02 > 0:15:06the Good Friday Agreement and some senior DUP figures do not even talk

0:15:06 > 0:15:10to him. He said that for years. We were saying on your programme these

0:15:10 > 0:15:15people hate each other. You say about the relationship between them,

0:15:15 > 0:15:18there is no relationship between them, if there was a civil and

0:15:18 > 0:15:21honest relationship between these people, they would have found a way

0:15:21 > 0:15:26to do a deal.In the audience, the guy in the glasses.On what you

0:15:26 > 0:15:31said, these talks we hadn't secret between Sinn Fein and the DUP, do

0:15:31 > 0:15:36the public not deserve to know what is being discussed. Then there can

0:15:36 > 0:15:44be no excuse for anyone involved and the public can judge them.Are we

0:15:44 > 0:15:47being naive expecting them to tell the public?There is an element

0:15:47 > 0:15:51where we are being naive, if these negotiations are serious, they will

0:15:51 > 0:15:55be in private. If they are breaking down, it will erupt into the public

0:15:55 > 0:15:59and we have seen it a bit in the summer when things did drift apart.

0:15:59 > 0:16:04Back to what Alex said, there is a profound issue in terms of the

0:16:04 > 0:16:07democratic mandate Sinn Fein in particular have. They stood on one

0:16:07 > 0:16:11red line issue, you know this because you tease it repeatedly, the

0:16:11 > 0:16:15one MEDLINE issue was not the Irish Language Act, they repeatedly

0:16:15 > 0:16:19refused to say that was a key issue, the deal-breaker was Arlene Foster.

0:16:19 > 0:16:24It is all very well to say that is politics and you can pass that acai,

0:16:24 > 0:16:31but that is very dangerous.They said by Christmas, but women came

0:16:31 > 0:16:38back in I disagree, I think the straw that broke the camel's back

0:16:38 > 0:16:44was that they played it out so badly in Sinn Fein's heartland where they

0:16:44 > 0:16:48were haemorrhaging votes. They knew they had to do something.Back to

0:16:48 > 0:16:54the audience.In the glasses. I no longer what a deal, I want a new

0:16:54 > 0:16:58government that represents the people in my society, my peers.

0:16:58 > 0:17:03There is a lack of women in our government.Let me help the cameras

0:17:03 > 0:17:09find you.There is a lack of women and members from the LGBT community,

0:17:09 > 0:17:12there is a lack of people from ethnic minority groups. We can talk

0:17:12 > 0:17:19about a deal all we want.You don't want a deal, game over?I want a new

0:17:19 > 0:17:23government, I am worried about my future that is in the hands of these

0:17:23 > 0:17:27politicians, over these petty issues. It worries me and it worries

0:17:27 > 0:17:31my peers. This is our beach, the economy, get over these sectarian

0:17:31 > 0:17:37issues!Gay marriage is not a sectarian issue, RHI and Arlene

0:17:37 > 0:17:43Foster's right to be First Minister is not a petty issue. Is the

0:17:43 > 0:17:48language act a petty issue?No, it is an issue with equal rights in our

0:17:48 > 0:17:52community and our government. I feel our government does not reflect

0:17:52 > 0:17:56society.We don't have a government. What is your message to those

0:17:56 > 0:18:02politicians?Get your act together because you are worrying is and you

0:18:02 > 0:18:10are discouraging people to go into politics. How old are you? I'm 16.

0:18:10 > 0:18:14My goodness, and you feel like that. And I know that some of our young

0:18:14 > 0:18:20people from the top table show designed for young people interested

0:18:20 > 0:18:24in getting into politics, to give them a seat at the table politics,

0:18:24 > 0:18:28they are here tonight. How are you feeling about this, Archie?Raising

0:18:28 > 0:18:33the issue of the Irish Language Act and red lines and statements that

0:18:33 > 0:18:37have been made, it is well and good, but to be honest, it is smoke and

0:18:37 > 0:18:42mirrors and it is empty words. If you want to see something really

0:18:42 > 0:18:46telling, look at the position the parties are in at the minute. The

0:18:46 > 0:18:48DUP enjoying their strongest position in Westminster they have

0:18:48 > 0:18:53ever held and Sinn Fein who, like it or not, they don't mind if the

0:18:53 > 0:18:57Government does not form and that is the sad things. These two parties do

0:18:57 > 0:19:02not mind if they got it is not formed and these negotiations are a

0:19:02 > 0:19:07sham.Would you like your future in Northern Ireland in their hands?Not

0:19:07 > 0:19:11at the minute, especially they cannot negotiate together and they

0:19:11 > 0:19:14do not want to negotiate together because it suits them and their best

0:19:14 > 0:19:17interests are not have the Government. They are not doing any

0:19:17 > 0:19:21work and they are getting paid. Their pay is getting increased which

0:19:21 > 0:19:27is absolutely absurd considering they are not doing their work.I

0:19:27 > 0:19:31understand when you are coming from. I would agree in terms of, you

0:19:31 > 0:19:39touched upon...You are a Sinn Fein supporter?Yes. I would say more

0:19:39 > 0:19:43than anything these human rights issues, you cannot ignore them. I

0:19:43 > 0:19:49understand concerns about health and education, I am 22 myself and it

0:19:49 > 0:19:52means as much to me as the young girl on the back row, but is there

0:19:52 > 0:19:56any point having a government if you do not look at equality issues? Some

0:19:56 > 0:20:00people are saying get to the table and continue the game, but can you

0:20:00 > 0:20:04continue if you are not dealing with the issues on the table because

0:20:04 > 0:20:08hadn't -- how can you represent those people if you do not work out

0:20:08 > 0:20:11the issues like marriage equality and the Irish Language Act and basic

0:20:11 > 0:20:18human rights?Sinn Fein has a problem because it went to the

0:20:18 > 0:20:22election on issues like RHI and Arlene Foster, and also same-sex

0:20:22 > 0:20:25marriage and they rallied a huge gay vote for the Assembly electorate on

0:20:25 > 0:20:28the promise they would still the same-sex marriage. You cannot

0:20:28 > 0:20:31deliver same-sex marriage for the gay community in Northern Ireland

0:20:31 > 0:20:37unless you have an Assembly in which you can pass legislation. So the

0:20:37 > 0:20:41people who gave their vote Sinn Fein and inflated the Sinn Fein vote on

0:20:41 > 0:20:46those issues, a lot of them will simply disillusioned.You can have

0:20:46 > 0:20:49same-sex marriage. We see the abortion issue was dealt with very

0:20:49 > 0:20:54quickly through Westminster without any Executive and running, Stella

0:20:54 > 0:20:57Creasy proposed one motion and it was dealt with and same-sex marriage

0:20:57 > 0:21:01could be dealt with in the same way. While this is going on, guess what?

0:21:01 > 0:21:08Stormont is costly in terms of MLA salaries and expenses. Guess what it

0:21:08 > 0:21:15is costing you? An estimated £1 million per month. That is salaries

0:21:15 > 0:21:22and expenses.

0:21:22 > 0:21:27This is what the MLAs cost in terms of a salary per month, what do you

0:21:27 > 0:21:33think about that?That is a lot of money and if they are not doing

0:21:33 > 0:21:37anything, they are not doing a job, you would have to look at it.MLAs

0:21:37 > 0:21:40getting there.Very, what you think? I think their salary should be

0:21:40 > 0:21:44stopped until they get the Assembly up and running again.Take away

0:21:44 > 0:21:48their wages and they might consider it quicker and get it sorted.A lot

0:21:48 > 0:21:54of hard-working people up there will not say, criticise them when they

0:21:54 > 0:22:00have nothing to do with what is going on behind the scenes.The NHS

0:22:00 > 0:22:03and the police and the teachers, so many people out there working

0:22:03 > 0:22:08everyday. I think they need to go back to work.To pay for the MLAs,

0:22:08 > 0:22:12salaries and expenses for one month, what do you think of that?I think

0:22:12 > 0:22:16that is absolutely horrific! I did not realise taxpayers were paying

0:22:16 > 0:22:20that out on money.They think they are doing their constituency work

0:22:20 > 0:22:26which is the most important thing. But obviously, we don't have any

0:22:26 > 0:22:31Executive, which is horrific.2.5 million is what it costs for you the

0:22:31 > 0:22:35taxpayer to pay Stormont is not including the salaries or their

0:22:35 > 0:22:37expenses, what do you think about? Ridiculous! It could be on

0:22:37 > 0:22:42education, hospitals, different ways. These guys are just...

0:22:42 > 0:22:47Northern Ireland politics is just a joke. And it is not some type of

0:22:47 > 0:22:50abstract motion. When you go out to work and you see the text taken out

0:22:50 > 0:22:54and you see the money coming out of your top line, that is your money

0:22:54 > 0:22:58that is spent, what do you think about this?Just frustrated that

0:22:58 > 0:23:02they can still take a full salary, it is ten months and they have not

0:23:02 > 0:23:06done an awful lot of sitting round the table but they are still

0:23:06 > 0:23:10expecting full pay, I cannot understand it.Naomi Long said she

0:23:10 > 0:23:14thinks MLAs should be given a 30% pay cut, some people applauded that,

0:23:14 > 0:23:19other people said that was her being crafty because she wanted to cap it

0:23:19 > 0:23:23at 30% and it should go more. What you think it should be?Even 30%

0:23:23 > 0:23:27will be something. If you are talking the figures of £1 million,

0:23:27 > 0:23:3230% to give back. They do nothing and still expect a full salary and

0:23:32 > 0:23:36it is never mentioned.They are not doing nothing, they are doing

0:23:36 > 0:23:40constituency work.Even 30%. They cannot justify taking a full salary

0:23:40 > 0:23:45and not be brought up.Mr Brokenshire has talked about this. I

0:23:45 > 0:23:51will also now be looking for formal independent advice on what steps

0:23:51 > 0:23:57should be taken to reflect the current circumstances in MLA pay.Do

0:23:57 > 0:24:01you think he means it? Is he going to give these people a pay cut and

0:24:01 > 0:24:06should he?Look how he has handled the deadlines, the MLAs are not

0:24:06 > 0:24:10taking this seriously when there is no deadline attached. It will come

0:24:10 > 0:24:14at some point, that is inevitable, but the difficulty, I'm surprised

0:24:14 > 0:24:17the smaller parties have not voluntarily come forward and taken

0:24:17 > 0:24:21the moral high ground and take a cut they are urging others to do, but it

0:24:21 > 0:24:25is not just a risk for the MLAs, but for the comment because they are

0:24:25 > 0:24:30seen as dependent on the DUP and the DUP is vocal on this issue. This is

0:24:30 > 0:24:35not because of the DUP, there are wider issues, these people cannot be

0:24:35 > 0:24:39allowed, an entire generation of politicians in Northern Ireland,

0:24:39 > 0:24:42which is what MLAs are, cannot be allowed to simply be put onto the

0:24:42 > 0:24:49scrapheap. That would not happen. If it seems the DUP tail is wagging the

0:24:49 > 0:24:53dog, that is damaging for the Government.If they continue to get

0:24:53 > 0:24:56back money and the march on as if nothing has changed in Northern

0:24:56 > 0:24:59Ireland, and they are doing the job they were doing in government, the

0:24:59 > 0:25:04only people affected by this is this audience and the people at home who

0:25:04 > 0:25:08are on waiting lists, whose lives are not improved and education and

0:25:08 > 0:25:13roads, all that stuff is not being decided by locally accounted people.

0:25:13 > 0:25:18If they continue to get their money. There is a significant argument they

0:25:18 > 0:25:21are still doing some of the jobs and they should get half the salary,

0:25:21 > 0:25:25there will be on the street and 22 -- and £25,000, the average salary

0:25:25 > 0:25:30Northern Ireland.It will damage the smaller parties like the SDLP.

0:25:30 > 0:25:36Alliance. With expenses. You could end up starving out the only hope

0:25:36 > 0:25:42you have of some kind of diversity within politics.Has Mr Brokenshire,

0:25:42 > 0:25:49if it were to be the right decision, has he got the courage to cut their

0:25:49 > 0:25:55money. I think they were removed by Theresa May months ago!In terms of

0:25:55 > 0:25:58the salaries, it is worth bearing in mind we make it sound as though

0:25:58 > 0:26:01everything going wrong in the health service and education and

0:26:01 > 0:26:04destruction and economics in Northern Ireland only happened in

0:26:04 > 0:26:10the past tense months, it is a serial product of eight, ten years.

0:26:10 > 0:26:13We are paying too much for the amount of legislation and difference

0:26:13 > 0:26:16they have made our lives, they are already vastly overpaid and it is

0:26:16 > 0:26:21offensive. Brokenshire should not be threatening them, just close the

0:26:21 > 0:26:24place down. If you are going to shock people, do something they are

0:26:24 > 0:26:30not expecting.

0:26:30 > 0:26:33You are admitting the Good Friday Agreement is over if you shut it

0:26:33 > 0:26:41down? We are living under Tory austerity. The last political crisis

0:26:41 > 0:26:47took five years before there was a threat of cutting salaries. I doubt

0:26:47 > 0:26:55James Brokenshire will do anything. He is taking advice.It is like

0:26:55 > 0:26:59being hit with a feather duster come he doesn't have the power and has

0:26:59 > 0:27:06lost all validity at this point.I spoke to James quite a lot, he would

0:27:06 > 0:27:13come on five live at the drop of a hat no problem, he becomes Secretary

0:27:13 > 0:27:20of State and I cannot get access to him. This lady in the glasses, go

0:27:20 > 0:27:24ahead.The world has had global upheaval in politics. In America

0:27:24 > 0:27:30they rejected going from one Bush to another, from one Clinton to

0:27:30 > 0:27:38another. They threw in Donald Trump. We don't need a Donald Trump but we

0:27:38 > 0:27:41need something different. Stephen, Ring a few of your friends, go for

0:27:41 > 0:27:53it yourself, lead us. APPLAUSE

0:27:53 > 0:27:58You do know McBride is trying to keep his face tray.It is your

0:27:58 > 0:28:05mother's face.Can be any worse than what we have got, we have got

0:28:05 > 0:28:08nothing. Stephen, we would respect anybody you could gather together,

0:28:08 > 0:28:14we would have more respect for the people.That tells you something,

0:28:14 > 0:28:19the people have no faith in us any more.Even if they did but it back

0:28:19 > 0:28:25together at next month, who believes it would last?It has fallen so many

0:28:25 > 0:28:30times? The fundamental issue, Stormont was superb when it was

0:28:30 > 0:28:34there, but nobody is marching on the streets to get Stormont back. People

0:28:34 > 0:28:38don't want it back because it was a shining beacon, it didn't transform

0:28:38 > 0:28:43the health service, waiting lists were out of control before this

0:28:43 > 0:28:49collapse. If they had succeeded for ten years, they might have had some

0:28:49 > 0:28:57capital...De think the Good Friday Agreement is dead?I don't think it

0:28:57 > 0:29:02is dead, but I think it will change into something else. I think we are

0:29:02 > 0:29:05headed to some grand bree negotiation and look at a coalition

0:29:05 > 0:29:09and seemed it is ready for Sinn Fein to veto in the shape of a government

0:29:09 > 0:29:14and that will be under discussion. Ladies and gentlemen, give the panel

0:29:14 > 0:29:18a round of applause. APPLAUSE

0:29:23 > 0:29:37They are forcing me to talk about the biggest non-diet in the country.

0:29:48 > 0:29:51I will be weighing in after the show

0:29:51 > 0:29:55and revealing my latest progress.

0:29:55 > 0:30:03I need to tell you that I got Wade Elliott and I have put three on.

0:30:03 > 0:30:05Right, he's known as 'The People's Tenor'.

0:30:05 > 0:30:08His dad was a welder and his mum worked in Woolworths.

0:30:08 > 0:30:09No formal voice training for this guy.

0:30:09 > 0:30:11But that hasn't stopped him selling over seven million albums,

0:30:11 > 0:30:14with The New York Times saying 'he sings like Pavarotti,

0:30:14 > 0:30:17and entertains the audience like Sinatra.' He's here

0:30:17 > 0:30:19in the studio tonight performing 'You Raise Me Up'.

0:30:19 > 0:30:20Welcome, please, Russell Watson!

0:30:20 > 0:30:30CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

0:30:31 > 0:30:37# When I am down and, oh, my soul, so weary

0:30:39 > 0:30:46# When troubles come and my heart burdened be

0:30:46 > 0:30:54# Then I am still and wait here in the silence

0:30:54 > 0:31:04# Until you come and sit awhile with me

0:31:05 > 0:31:12# You raise me up so I can stand on mountains

0:31:12 > 0:31:22# You raise me up to walk on stormy seas

0:31:22 > 0:31:30# I am strong when I am on your shoulders

0:31:30 > 0:31:40# You raise me up to more than I can be

0:31:55 > 0:32:09# Each restless heart beats so imperfectly.

0:32:09 > 0:32:17# Sometimes I think I glimpse eternity.

0:32:17 > 0:32:22# # You raise me up so I can stand on mountains

0:32:22 > 0:32:31# You raise me up to walk on stormy seas

0:32:31 > 0:32:39# I am strong when I am on your shoulders

0:32:39 > 0:32:49# You raise me up to more than I can be

0:33:25 > 0:33:29# You raise me up so I can stand on mountains

0:33:29 > 0:33:36# You raise me up to walk on stormy seas

0:33:36 > 0:33:46# I am strong when I am on your shoulders

0:33:48 > 0:34:16# You raise me up to more than I can be #.

0:34:18 > 0:34:28APPLAUSE

0:34:36 > 0:34:43Russell will be playing at the waterfront on the 6th of December.

0:34:43 > 0:34:47APPLAUSE

0:34:47 > 0:34:50Right, allegations of sexual abuse and harassment against men

0:34:50 > 0:34:53are wall-to-wall at the moment.

0:34:53 > 0:34:59Weinstein, Spacey, and then tonight, this

0:34:59 > 0:35:09from the Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon.

0:35:09 > 0:35:15In recent days, allegations have been made about MPs' conduct,

0:35:15 > 0:35:19including my own.Many of these allegations have been false, but I

0:35:19 > 0:35:25realise that in the past, I may have fallen below the high standards that

0:35:25 > 0:35:29we require of the Armed Forces that I have the honour to represent. I

0:35:29 > 0:35:34have reflected now on my position in government and I am therefore

0:35:34 > 0:35:43resigning as Defence Secretary.

0:35:43 > 0:35:51So this was a huge talking point this week.

0:35:51 > 0:35:53People are thinking, serious allegations, where has this come

0:35:53 > 0:36:02from?This is quite shocking. Events in the last hour or so. I came on

0:36:02 > 0:36:10here expecting to defend Michael Fallon. I had rehearsed quite a good

0:36:10 > 0:36:15argument. He has now fallen on his sword. You can only assume he has

0:36:15 > 0:36:24done so, not only because he put a hand on Julie Hartley Brewer's knee,

0:36:24 > 0:36:28which he has dismissed because she is a robust woman. I can only assume

0:36:28 > 0:36:33there is more in the pipeline and he had to resign because more people

0:36:33 > 0:36:43will come out.Michael Fallon, that is in the news tonight, fair enough.

0:36:43 > 0:36:47But there are some instances and examples of harassment that you are

0:36:47 > 0:36:54saying doesn't really mean harassment?Yes. But at one end of

0:36:54 > 0:36:59the spectrum is Harvey Weinstein and Jimmy Savile, complete monsters that

0:36:59 > 0:37:05nobody in their right mind could defend, at the other end there is a

0:37:05 > 0:37:10clumsy comment whilst drunk or a pass made to a colleague that didn't

0:37:10 > 0:37:15quite go right. Maybe an inappropriate touch or something

0:37:15 > 0:37:20like that. Those people, at the moment, there are some people that

0:37:20 > 0:37:26insist anything as mild as that is, they should lose their jobs and

0:37:26 > 0:37:31livelihoods and their career is over.Let's look at the alias star

0:37:31 > 0:37:37from the wedding singer, Adam Sandler. We know him well.

0:37:37 > 0:37:39was on Graham Norton this week.

0:37:39 > 0:37:43Have a look at this.

0:37:43 > 0:37:51I was nominated for a golden Globe and I took my parents. They invited

0:37:51 > 0:37:58themselves, but anyway. My mother, just get excited...Is that

0:37:58 > 0:38:03something many people got upset about, should they have done?I

0:38:03 > 0:38:10personally didn't find it upsetting, but if she found it upsetting then

0:38:10 > 0:38:13that is her right. If she didn't feel comfortable, then he probably

0:38:13 > 0:38:19shouldn't have done it.How would he know. If he puts his hand on your

0:38:19 > 0:38:23knee, you wouldn't have found it upsetting, he puts it on her knee,

0:38:23 > 0:38:30she is upset and is in trouble. Is that the world we are in?There is

0:38:30 > 0:38:37an element now, how we have two approach people, some people will

0:38:37 > 0:38:42say things in front of me that I don't find offensive, but I am

0:38:42 > 0:38:50strong and I don't find innuendos too bad. But if I was younger, maybe

0:38:50 > 0:38:53I might have found it a bit overwhelming and wouldn't have felt

0:38:53 > 0:38:58comfortable. As we get older we become more sure of ourselves as

0:38:58 > 0:39:02women and can handle more things, but it depends. She obviously didn't

0:39:02 > 0:39:08like it, that is fair enough. Again, some people are tactile.Jonathan in

0:39:08 > 0:39:15the front row.Regards this issue, there has to be a fine line between

0:39:15 > 0:39:23banter, if you know the person and sexual harassment.What is the line?

0:39:23 > 0:39:27Maybe, I am friendly with you, joking about, that is different but

0:39:27 > 0:39:30if I go to somebody and grope somebody on a regular basis or even

0:39:30 > 0:39:35one off and it makes that person uncomfortable, it is sexual

0:39:35 > 0:39:40harassment. Kevin Spacey, it is almost double standards for the

0:39:40 > 0:39:44elites, people in the government, it is brushed aside. If it had been

0:39:44 > 0:39:52anybody else, he would have been facing time.I think in as well, if

0:39:52 > 0:40:00you kind of need to grow up. It's not harmful.What isn't harmful?

0:40:00 > 0:40:05Touching her knee, like Adam Sandler did.To me, it wouldn't have been

0:40:05 > 0:40:08offensive, but you have to gauge the person you deal with. You cannot

0:40:08 > 0:40:13assume. We were discussing it, when summer comes into the workplace and

0:40:13 > 0:40:19they are young, it is not appropriate for me to speak to you

0:40:19 > 0:40:24and way and maybe banter with Stephen. Because we are equal in age

0:40:24 > 0:40:28and we have lived the same life experiences, probably.I doubt I

0:40:28 > 0:40:35have had the same life experiences as you!We are the same age, we

0:40:35 > 0:40:41could probably handle a bit of banter. But I wouldn't be talking to

0:40:41 > 0:40:46you like that until you got to know me and he knew the kind of person I

0:40:46 > 0:40:50was. It is about respecting someone and giving them time to grow and

0:40:50 > 0:40:56give them time to get to know you. Christine Hamilton tonight, I have

0:40:56 > 0:41:04no idea, where is she, Bristol. Commiserations, Bristol. Something

0:41:04 > 0:41:09happened to you, which I found really interesting, tell us about

0:41:09 > 0:41:16the cupboard incident?There wasn't a cupboard, I started working at the

0:41:16 > 0:41:20house of, in 1971 when I was 21, fresh out of university and starry

0:41:20 > 0:41:26eyed about the place. I thought I was in heaven. Of course there was

0:41:26 > 0:41:30flotation, but nothing very much. The incident you are referring to,

0:41:30 > 0:41:36he was a junior minister at the time and he got a sort of thing about me.

0:41:36 > 0:41:41He was married, I wasn't. He started to send me flowers, which was kind

0:41:41 > 0:41:46of all right, only twice and I didn't return them. He came into my

0:41:46 > 0:41:50office and shut the door behind him, turned the key and put it in his

0:41:50 > 0:41:58pocket.He locked you in a room?He locked me in my own office. I told

0:41:58 > 0:42:04him he was being ridiculous and he had to stop this, stop sending me

0:42:04 > 0:42:10flowers.How did he react?He calmed down a bit and then I made it

0:42:10 > 0:42:17perfectly...What do you mean, calm down?You know perfectly well what I

0:42:17 > 0:42:26mean.Was he trying to sexually harass you?Of course he was.

0:42:26 > 0:42:31That was the reason he came into the door. I am not going into the

0:42:31 > 0:42:36details. I did not give him a chance. I was determined I was not

0:42:36 > 0:42:42going to be taken advantage of and I made my position absolutely clear.

0:42:42 > 0:42:46But what worries me about the situation in Westminster, obviously

0:42:46 > 0:42:51it seems to me there had been some very serious incidents and by the

0:42:51 > 0:42:55way, Michael Fallon has not resigned because of inappropriate behaviour,

0:42:55 > 0:42:59he has resigned because he has been found out. I think he is clearly

0:42:59 > 0:43:03about to be found out with other things.We do not know that and

0:43:03 > 0:43:10let's not speculate on a live television programme. I am

0:43:10 > 0:43:14interested, the situation you encountered. I do say if that junior

0:43:14 > 0:43:19Minister was a junior Minister now and did anything close to that, that

0:43:19 > 0:43:25he would be gone. If you wanted to press the button, is that guy still

0:43:25 > 0:43:29in politics?I am not going to say who he is or any more about him.I

0:43:29 > 0:43:36don't want you to say who he is. Would he lose his job if you named

0:43:36 > 0:43:40him?No, because he does not have a job any more. But I would never have

0:43:40 > 0:43:44dreamt of blaming him because it was not that important, it was just

0:43:44 > 0:43:49stuff that happens. I was able and mature enough to deal with it. I am

0:43:49 > 0:43:52not saying it is the right sort of behaviour and if he had done that on

0:43:52 > 0:43:57somebody less able to handle it, it would have been grotesque.Is that

0:43:57 > 0:44:03serious? Is that acceptable what happened?Yes, absolutely it is

0:44:03 > 0:44:06serious and no, it is not acceptable. When she said just now

0:44:06 > 0:44:12it is just stuff that happens, I giggled -- giggle went through the

0:44:12 > 0:44:16audience. That is really distressing. I mean, it is stuff

0:44:16 > 0:44:20that happens, I agree, it happens far more often than people admit and

0:44:20 > 0:44:24people tell. People might tell each other on the quiet, but people do

0:44:24 > 0:44:27not often come forward with these stories because they realise that

0:44:27 > 0:44:33they will be, you know, it is no big deal, it will be dismissed. Or if

0:44:33 > 0:44:37they do raise it in a workplace sometimes, they can be punished for

0:44:37 > 0:44:41what they are saying. Particularly the person who has done it is in a

0:44:41 > 0:44:47position of power over them.It kicked off big-time on the Nolan

0:44:47 > 0:44:52radio show, it was a lady called Cathy and the broadcaster said, a

0:44:52 > 0:44:57woman needs to be capital about what they are wearing. It is a factor. In

0:44:57 > 0:45:00the same way you would tell your child, at your young teenage

0:45:00 > 0:45:05daughter or your son, don't walk down a dark street and don't wear

0:45:05 > 0:45:10provocative clothing, be sensible. He went ballistic. I did, I think we

0:45:10 > 0:45:15are beyond that stage in our lives. We are not living in Victorian times

0:45:15 > 0:45:19where a woman shows her ankles and that is incredibly racist -- racy.

0:45:19 > 0:45:24We have grown up and we understand better and it is not acceptable.

0:45:24 > 0:45:28Girls and guys can wear whatever they like, nobody has a right to

0:45:28 > 0:45:32touch you based on what you were. Nobody has a right to the chair.

0:45:32 > 0:45:41Nobody has. -- based on what you wear. For another woman to judge a

0:45:41 > 0:45:44woman in that way is absolutely disgraceful and she is now better to

0:45:44 > 0:45:49me than somebody who lives in Saudi Arabia and blames a woman and tells

0:45:49 > 0:45:52her to carry the responsibility of how a man looks at her and treats

0:45:52 > 0:45:59her.I 100% agree, women should wear whatever they went come -- whatever

0:45:59 > 0:46:04they want, as should men. There is a bigger picture. There will be much

0:46:04 > 0:46:09more, this is the tip of the iceberg. I know of seven, eight

0:46:09 > 0:46:14people in the UK, in Ireland and in the States who have paid people to

0:46:14 > 0:46:17stay out of the press, that will implode with big stories hitting the

0:46:17 > 0:46:23headlines. But why are they coming to the press now? I am a journalist

0:46:23 > 0:46:26and a showbiz writer and I love people coming to me with stories,

0:46:26 > 0:46:30but what I am seeing is a disturbing trend of people using the media to

0:46:30 > 0:46:36get revenge on these people.Hold on a minute, they picked him is! They

0:46:36 > 0:46:43are coming to the media...He is criticising them. This is the world

0:46:43 > 0:46:47we live in, Facebook, Twitter. Tough! I am worried about this

0:46:47 > 0:46:51because I am a journalist and I like people coming with stories, hands on

0:46:51 > 0:46:57that. People are going a newspaper and often... Agents have been on the

0:46:57 > 0:47:00phone in the last couple of days trying to sell stories on their own

0:47:00 > 0:47:05artists to come forward. We are going to reveal this sexual

0:47:05 > 0:47:09allegation in your newspaper. I am sane people are using the media now

0:47:09 > 0:47:13instead of going to the police or somebody who can really help them.

0:47:13 > 0:47:17This is disturbing and it will implode.There are good reasons why

0:47:17 > 0:47:21people do not go to the police, a lot of women do not feel safe, they

0:47:21 > 0:47:25will not be believed and taken seriously.They would rather be on

0:47:25 > 0:47:30the front page of a tabloid saying somebody abuse than 20 years ago?It

0:47:30 > 0:47:34is insanity! If it is somebody famous or powerful and it is public,

0:47:34 > 0:47:39that person cannot take revenge and ruin somebody's career in a way they

0:47:39 > 0:47:43can if the police have a quiet word with them and it is kept quiet.We

0:47:43 > 0:47:48have to be careful we do not end up tarnishing perfectly innocent

0:47:48 > 0:47:54situations, when you look at Cliff Richard. There are arguments.Hands

0:47:54 > 0:48:02up in the audience, the back row, go ahead.First, it is more than

0:48:02 > 0:48:08anything, I find in society today, there is lives and what not. What I

0:48:08 > 0:48:13would like to say, how come in the media, you tend to find it is all be

0:48:13 > 0:48:18Mills coming forward? Why is there not males this may have happened to?

0:48:18 > 0:48:25Some males, not as many, have come forward.It is not as dominant, if a

0:48:25 > 0:48:28man comes out and does what these women have been doing, it is the end

0:48:28 > 0:48:32of a career.Is there the same reaction if it happens to a man as

0:48:32 > 0:48:37it happens to a woman? Take as an example, a Christmas party and a

0:48:37 > 0:48:45woman goes up and feels a guy's backside. Is that seen in any way to

0:48:45 > 0:48:49be more trivial than if a man went up and did it to a woman?It is

0:48:49 > 0:48:57absolutely more trivial. Men generally don't complain. They will

0:48:57 > 0:49:04take whatever they can get!Hold on a second, the audience is laughing.

0:49:04 > 0:49:11You are joking about it. It is told in a different way. That would be

0:49:11 > 0:49:16sexual harassment, sexual assault. Allegation to the police.To come

0:49:16 > 0:49:19from a man to complain about sexual harassment, it really would be

0:49:19 > 0:49:27viewed as beyond the pale.It is career ending, it would be madness.

0:49:27 > 0:49:30What sort of a moan or are you complaining about this woman, just

0:49:30 > 0:49:39ignore it!Imagine if he said tomorrow, I was sexually harassed by

0:49:39 > 0:49:42some major actress and she was touching me up. The woman -- the

0:49:42 > 0:49:49women would be laughing.I think we have changed, I disagree. I think we

0:49:49 > 0:49:54have changed and we are starting to learn how to treat people better. It

0:49:54 > 0:49:56is about mutual respect and understanding how to treat each

0:49:56 > 0:50:00other when we first meet. When you get to meet each other, there is a

0:50:00 > 0:50:04possibility of that kind of banter, but Christine Hamilton, if that had

0:50:04 > 0:50:10happened to me, I would be absolutely...She is giggling about

0:50:10 > 0:50:16being locked in a room, that worries me.We should not talk about you.

0:50:16 > 0:50:21Did you find it funny what happens to you, are you going about it?I

0:50:21 > 0:50:25certainly am not giggling about it, absolutely not. It was a very

0:50:25 > 0:50:30unnerving situation and I was able to deal with it. One thing we have

0:50:30 > 0:50:36to remember is that that was 35 years ago, roughly that. Standards

0:50:36 > 0:50:41have changed. It is not excusable Ben, but standards have changed and

0:50:41 > 0:50:48what was acceptable longer go... Kevin Spacey is being done for some

0:50:48 > 0:50:52stuff that was many decades ago.I know, that is absolutely ludicrous,

0:50:52 > 0:50:57I think. What I think is in danger of happening at Westminster is that

0:50:57 > 0:51:01serious allegations that have been made and I think will come out, they

0:51:01 > 0:51:08are in danger of drowning in a sea of this artichoke be about knee

0:51:08 > 0:51:13touching and this sort of thing. What you define as trivia? This is

0:51:13 > 0:51:18the point, where'd you draw the line? One person's trivia is

0:51:18 > 0:51:26assault.Sending your secondary out for example for sex toys, is that

0:51:26 > 0:51:31the trivia?As I understand it, he did not send her out, they were both

0:51:31 > 0:51:38out together somewhere. He sent her in. Into the shop. What amazes me is

0:51:38 > 0:51:41that a middle-aged woman was prepared to do that. If somebody had

0:51:41 > 0:51:45asked me to do that, I would have laughed and said, don't be so

0:51:45 > 0:51:51ridiculous, go and get your own! It is quite extraordinary that she

0:51:51 > 0:51:54allowed herself to be used in that way, but that is her decision.That

0:51:54 > 0:52:02is down to personality. It is about power. It is about power because she

0:52:02 > 0:52:07felt to do it. And that is where there is a lack of respect from him

0:52:07 > 0:52:12to expect her to go and do that. That is a lack of respect.There are

0:52:12 > 0:52:18a lot of hands up.Whether or not you come forward and report issues

0:52:18 > 0:52:21of sexual harassment is down to things like whether you are strong

0:52:21 > 0:52:25enough or mature enough or your personality type? Does that created

0:52:25 > 0:52:28situation whereby people do not come forward because they are perceived

0:52:28 > 0:52:34as weak or image all or not sufficiently robust to do with the

0:52:34 > 0:52:39situations?I certainly did not mean it that way, like Christine, she was

0:52:39 > 0:52:41unnerved by what happened but sometimes, you just gather yourself

0:52:41 > 0:52:47and you just kind of thing, did that just really happen? It is not that

0:52:47 > 0:52:52you are not affected by it, you are affected by it.You said thou not

0:52:52 > 0:52:56strong enough to deal with the situation. Are they weak because

0:52:56 > 0:53:02they cannot deal with it and you are stronger?Just because I said I was

0:53:02 > 0:53:09strong and I use that word, what I meant was... Or robust, the chop.

0:53:09 > 0:53:14When you are mature, you can cut the different types of banter. There is

0:53:14 > 0:53:19banter and there is deviant behaviour.Hold on, let him speak.

0:53:19 > 0:53:22It is really dangerous to suggest that personality has a real effect

0:53:22 > 0:53:28on what the standards on reality should be, so whether you aren't

0:53:28 > 0:53:31mature, strong, robust enough sometimes means that the woman who

0:53:31 > 0:53:34comes forward, are they weak, they cannot cope and they cannot do with

0:53:34 > 0:53:38the situation they are somehow immature?No, they are absolutely

0:53:38 > 0:53:42right to come back but they are the ones that are reflected steeply by

0:53:42 > 0:53:50it.Absolutely ridiculous. You think there is a difference between

0:53:50 > 0:53:55touching somebody's legs and their bottom? There is no difference, the

0:53:55 > 0:54:00woman has a choice of being touched. You don't know that choice, nobody

0:54:00 > 0:54:06does. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment.Does it not happen quite

0:54:06 > 0:54:10often at Christmas parties for example?It happens all the time,

0:54:10 > 0:54:16but it does not make it right. A good friend of mine, she teaches all

0:54:16 > 0:54:21about boundaries and stuff and she is an amazing woman.What did he say

0:54:21 > 0:54:30that upset you?But there is no line.There is clearly a line. You

0:54:30 > 0:54:33can touch somebody's Private parts or the Elbow, there is a line

0:54:33 > 0:54:37between those two.How'd you know that woman wants to be touched on

0:54:37 > 0:54:43that elbow?Are you suggesting we live in a sterile society where all

0:54:43 > 0:54:49touch is forbidden?No, woman has a choice.If I touch him on his

0:54:49 > 0:54:55shoulder, is he going to tell me to go away?Yes!Can you read their

0:54:55 > 0:55:00minds to say that he wanted you to do that?You know behaviourally what

0:55:00 > 0:55:05is acceptable and what is not and some people are wrong and they get

0:55:05 > 0:55:11it wrong.Is it ridiculous, when people come up to you sometimes and

0:55:11 > 0:55:20they kiss you on both cheeks, if a man does that...That is cool and

0:55:20 > 0:55:23sophisticated. I would not go up to somebody and

0:55:23 > 0:55:26kiss them on the cheek because I don't know if that person wants me

0:55:26 > 0:55:31to do that. If that person wants you to touch them, they will ask you to

0:55:31 > 0:55:36touch them. Or you can ask them, you don't just go and touch them.We

0:55:36 > 0:55:42only have a few minutes left, it is the power dynamic in the workplace.

0:55:42 > 0:55:46Bosses, people in power who can decide whether you get a job or not

0:55:46 > 0:55:49in the industry, people who decide whether you get an acting job, in

0:55:49 > 0:55:53television whether you can do a television show, that power dynamic

0:55:53 > 0:55:57is there and is it ever appropriate for there to be a relationship

0:55:57 > 0:56:03between a boss or even flirting with somebody below them?I would say

0:56:03 > 0:56:10absolutely not. And the power dynamic is between bosses and

0:56:10 > 0:56:15employees and also between different levels of staff. Somebody who has

0:56:15 > 0:56:18just come in in their 20s and somebody who is there longer. What

0:56:18 > 0:56:22this young man said about the way people are talking about people who

0:56:22 > 0:56:28come forward as being in somewhere improving their careers and for a

0:56:28 > 0:56:33man it would end, that is bizarre. Aside from that, there is a

0:56:33 > 0:56:37narrative that says that the women who stand up to that and he managed

0:56:37 > 0:56:46to stop it strong.Can we bring in the audience? I think it is

0:56:46 > 0:56:50fantastic that the people in Hollywood are using the platform to

0:56:50 > 0:56:54reassure regular people that it is OK to come forward and you are not

0:56:54 > 0:57:00weak and it is not a personality flaw, that you have been victimised?

0:57:00 > 0:57:05I am worried about this sort of conversation about the right way for

0:57:05 > 0:57:09a woman to respond to this because there is not a wrong way for a woman

0:57:09 > 0:57:14to respond. The simple fact is, women should not be expected to

0:57:14 > 0:57:19experience this kind of thing.Why are you not talking about men as

0:57:19 > 0:57:23well, does this happen to men?It does happen to men as well but we

0:57:23 > 0:57:28live in a Page Rocky and women are usually the majority of the victims

0:57:28 > 0:57:33-- Patriot key.I wish these actresses had come out a lot earlier

0:57:33 > 0:57:37and gone to the right authorities a lot sooner and there would not be so

0:57:37 > 0:57:41many victims of the likes of Harvey Weinstein.There would be. The level

0:57:41 > 0:57:45of people who get convicted for these types of crime is next to

0:57:45 > 0:57:53nothing. That is why there would be many, many more.Very quickly.What

0:57:53 > 0:58:02you said about a different line for men... A microphone, very quickly.

0:58:02 > 0:58:08Men of victims as much as women. I was subjected to a very serious

0:58:08 > 0:58:12sexual assault just over a year ago and my perpetrator was never caught

0:58:12 > 0:58:18and probably never will be, even though they have DNA evidence.Can I

0:58:18 > 0:58:21just say I am sorry to stop you, but we are running out of time and if

0:58:21 > 0:58:26you want is to pick up that story, we can do so on the radio show?

0:58:26 > 0:58:32Sorry to stop you, we will not have time. We will have tomorrow on the

0:58:32 > 0:58:36radio show at nine a:m.. Thank you for your company, good night,

0:58:36 > 0:58:39everybody, thank you.

0:58:39 > 0:58:49APPLAUSE