05/06/2017

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:00:13. > :00:17.Hello, I'm Ros Atkins, this is Outside Source.

:00:18. > :00:23.Across the hour, as the wind and rain make themselves felt, I will

:00:24. > :00:27.bring you all the very latest on the investigation into the London Bridge

:00:28. > :00:30.terror attack. The authorities today have named two of the three

:00:31. > :00:35.attackers, one of them Khuram Butt from its London was previously known

:00:36. > :00:40.to the authorities. They little earlier before the rain came in, and

:00:41. > :00:43.just a few 100 metres from where I'm standing, the Mayor of London led a

:00:44. > :00:44.vigil for those that lost their lives and the dozens who were

:00:45. > :00:49.injured. And the mayor spoke. To the sick and evil extremists

:00:50. > :01:05.who commit these hideous crimes. Inevitably, the attack is

:01:06. > :01:09.influencing the UK election campaign. It is election day on

:01:10. > :01:12.Thursday. We have heard from both the Prime Minister to Theresa May

:01:13. > :01:17.and the opposition leader, Jeremy Corbyn. I will bring you up-to-date

:01:18. > :01:20.on that, and I will be live in Washington, DC after Donald Trump

:01:21. > :01:21.launched a second extraordinary attack on the Mayor of London, Sadiq

:01:22. > :01:47.Khan. You join me on a damp, Loi Monday

:01:48. > :01:51.night here in the centre of London. I am just on the edge of the huge

:01:52. > :02:00.police cordon that has been set up around the scene of Saturday night's

:02:01. > :02:07.atrocity, in which three men killed, seven people. We now 48 others were

:02:08. > :02:11.injured. The authorities of the Santon have said they had identified

:02:12. > :02:15.attackers but were not releasing their names, well, two names have

:02:16. > :02:20.now been released, the first was a 27-year-old, called Khuram Butt. He

:02:21. > :02:26.was a British citizen. You can see him on the left. He was born in

:02:27. > :02:32.Pakistan, but living in Barking, is London. The second to be named is

:02:33. > :02:40.the 30-year-old Rachid Redouane, who also lived in Barking, is London. We

:02:41. > :02:44.are told investigators were aware of Khuram Butt but there was no

:02:45. > :02:51.evidence he was planning an attack. Before this wind and rain came in so

:02:52. > :02:55.fiercely, a vigil was led by the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, in a

:02:56. > :02:59.park just next door to City Hall and right next door to Tower Bridge and

:03:00. > :03:03.the river Thames. Here is some of what the mayor said.

:03:04. > :03:06.As the Mayor of London, I want to send a clear message

:03:07. > :03:15.to the sick and evil extremists who commit these hideous crimes.

:03:16. > :03:26.Today, we mourn the loss of innocent lives.

:03:27. > :03:29.Londoners and people from around the world.

:03:30. > :03:32.We send our love to the victims's families, and to all

:03:33. > :03:37.those who are injured, and we thank our courageous

:03:38. > :03:42.emergency services, and the brave Londoners who risked their lives

:03:43. > :03:58.Khuram Butt, one of the two attacker to have been named by the police we

:03:59. > :04:03.now have been reported to the authorities over concerns he was

:04:04. > :04:06.becoming radicalised. We also know he featured in a Channel 4

:04:07. > :04:11.documentary looking at people with Jay Harris the queues in London. The

:04:12. > :04:15.BBC's Ed Thomas has been in east London today and has spoken to one

:04:16. > :04:20.of Khuram Butt's neighbours, who says he saw the van that was true

:04:21. > :04:26.than in the people on Saturday night in London Bridge, he saw the ban on

:04:27. > :04:32.Friday. More details in a's latest report.

:04:33. > :04:34.He was the enemy within, Khuram Butt, at 27, a father

:04:35. > :04:41.of two young children, he had worked on the

:04:42. > :04:43.London Underground before turning to Islamic extremism.

:04:44. > :05:02.Romana was a neighbour, she now says she feels fooled.

:05:03. > :05:04.He was kind, he shared the sweets with the neighbours.

:05:05. > :05:08.He is not going to go there, he is going to go there.

:05:09. > :05:13.Benjamin Joe would say hello to his neighbour, even

:05:14. > :05:27.Was he calm when you saw him on Saturday?

:05:28. > :05:33.We thought he was moving out because he was parked

:05:34. > :05:41.Moving out, because Michael watched the London attacker

:05:42. > :05:46.with another man in a white van, speeding at 6.30 on Saturday night.

:05:47. > :05:50.Before the final. To be precise, around 6:30pm.

:05:51. > :05:58.It screeched up, it was driving pretty fast.

:05:59. > :06:04.Didn't brake on the bend, it just went.

:06:05. > :06:07.He wasn't happy with the way women were dressed, he wanted

:06:08. > :06:12.They would talk in parks, in a nearby mosque.

:06:13. > :06:14.He didn't want to show his face and asked us

:06:15. > :06:22.He would talk about Syria mostly, Afghanistan, they get bombed

:06:23. > :06:25.and most people don't have food, they don't have homes to live.

:06:26. > :06:28.He said the pair would debate Syria, Iraq and Islamic State.

:06:29. > :06:37.Do you think he was trying to radicalise them?

:06:38. > :06:39.Do you think he was trying to radicalise you?

:06:40. > :06:43.I wouldn't want to turn out like a bad person,

:06:44. > :06:46.I wouldn't want to do that kind of thing.

:06:47. > :06:47.Khuram Butt, responsible for seven innocent deaths,

:06:48. > :06:50.and today more raids, more searches to get to the truth

:06:51. > :07:00.With me now, Dal Babu, former Chief Superintendent

:07:01. > :07:11.Thank you for coming out in this Arnaud Clement weather. There has

:07:12. > :07:19.been a furious political row about cuts. Do you think police cut

:07:20. > :07:22.affected the Metropolitan's police ability to track this plot? The

:07:23. > :07:26.challenges that police are never prepared to come out to say that

:07:27. > :07:31.they need a huge amount of resources while they are serving. It always

:07:32. > :07:34.reminds me of the George Orwell scenario, where the police keep

:07:35. > :07:40.being asked to do more and more and they keep carrying on doing it. If

:07:41. > :07:44.you have had a 50% cut in policing, 20,000 less officers since 2010, it

:07:45. > :07:50.is a no-brainer, it will have an impact of what the police can do, in

:07:51. > :07:55.terms of resources. Even if funding for counterterrorism specifically is

:07:56. > :07:59.ring fenced? I don't think they are two entirely different things. When

:08:00. > :08:02.I was a police officer, I got information to talking to people. I

:08:03. > :08:05.would speak to people, find out what was happening and then come back and

:08:06. > :08:10.do intelligence reports on that and there is no substitute for that.

:08:11. > :08:13.People sitting in an office going on computers and trying to work out

:08:14. > :08:17.what is happening on the ground. You need those people on the ground but

:08:18. > :08:22.it is not just the police officers being cut. We have also had cuts in

:08:23. > :08:25.the CSO numbers, community support officers and police staff are being

:08:26. > :08:29.cut as well. In the case of one of the attackers who has been named, we

:08:30. > :08:33.know the police were aware of him. Can you help us understand what that

:08:34. > :08:38.actually means when someone like him is on a watchlist? The police will

:08:39. > :08:43.have an intelligent system and they will look and grade each bit of that

:08:44. > :08:46.comes in. One thing that is very crucial is that communities should

:08:47. > :08:49.carry on contacting the police. We have heard Muslim embers of the

:08:50. > :08:51.community in Manchester were contacting the police around the

:08:52. > :08:55.individual who carried out the suicide bomber in Manchester. It is

:08:56. > :08:58.very important people carry on providing that information, once

:08:59. > :09:03.they get information, they will grade it. There is a problem with

:09:04. > :09:07.the system of people in Manchester came forward, people in east London

:09:08. > :09:10.came forward and yet tragically his attacks were carried out? There will

:09:11. > :09:13.be some lessons learned in how we deal with that information but we

:09:14. > :09:17.have to look of the information. I have some sympathy with the police,

:09:18. > :09:20.in terms of information comes in and they have to grade it. They can't

:09:21. > :09:25.have the same response to every civil person, every bit of

:09:26. > :09:29.information. Some might be this guy is looking at a magazine, he has

:09:30. > :09:35.downloaded something on making a terrorist bomb. We have heard this

:09:36. > :09:38.phrase, a new reality, being used by Cressida Dick, the current

:09:39. > :09:41.commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. Whichever government is

:09:42. > :09:46.elected after Thursday, what do you think their priorities are, in terms

:09:47. > :09:49.of responding to this new reality. We need to look at the Prevent

:09:50. > :09:51.strategy first of the present Prime Minister has talked about reviewing

:09:52. > :09:57.counterterrorism and I think that should include the Prevent strategy.

:09:58. > :09:59.The Prevent strategy is one of the four strands of counterterrorism

:10:00. > :10:04.strategies, which is designed to look at stopping radicalisation. The

:10:05. > :10:09.Muslim community, significant members of the Muslim community,

:10:10. > :10:12.have difficulties with that. It is important that that confidence and

:10:13. > :10:15.the community is essential. We need to review that, and look at the good

:10:16. > :10:19.things about prevent and make sure we are able to use it. It should be

:10:20. > :10:23.about safeguarding, if you have someone who has gone report, has

:10:24. > :10:26.mental health problems, is acting bizarrely, they should be brought

:10:27. > :10:29.before the authorities and the authorities make an assessment. This

:10:30. > :10:33.is someone who need support and assistance, or is this someone who

:10:34. > :10:36.is dangerous and needs to be charged with an offence and put into prison.

:10:37. > :10:41.I will let you step out of the wet and get yourself a bit dry. Dowell

:10:42. > :10:47.Babu, former Chief Superintendent with the Metropolitan Police. I am

:10:48. > :10:52.sure you aware that all seven victims of Saturday's attack had not

:10:53. > :10:54.been named, but we know that a 30-year-old Canadian woman called

:10:55. > :10:59.Christine Archibald was one of those who had. She had moved to Europe to

:11:00. > :11:02.live with her fiance. They called the Netherlands home but had come to

:11:03. > :11:07.London for the weekend, and we are told today that she died in the arms

:11:08. > :11:09.of her fiance. Her family put out an extraordinary statement talking

:11:10. > :11:13.about her commitment to work with the homeless. They encourage people

:11:14. > :11:16.to do volunteer work and said if they go and do that, tell them

:11:17. > :11:20.Christie sent you. We've also been taught by the French authorities

:11:21. > :11:24.that a French national lost their life, and we also heard from the

:11:25. > :11:29.sister of a man called James McMullan, who confirmed her brother

:11:30. > :11:30.was also one of those who died. This was a statement that she gave

:11:31. > :11:33.earlier. This morning we received news

:11:34. > :11:35.from the police that my brother's bank card was found on one

:11:36. > :11:38.of the bodies from Saturday night's brutal attack,

:11:39. > :11:40.but they are unable to formally identify him until the coroner's

:11:41. > :11:48.report comes tomorrow. identify him until the coroner's

:11:49. > :11:55.report begins tomorrow. We would like to send our

:11:56. > :11:59.condolences to the relatives and loved ones of all the ones who lost

:12:00. > :12:02.their lives, our thoughts are with them at this time. We would like to

:12:03. > :12:07.thank all the members of the services hooted their utmost to

:12:08. > :12:09.serve and protect the population of London from these arranged and

:12:10. > :12:18.deluded individuals. We know that seven people lost their

:12:19. > :12:23.lives on Saturday, and that 48 were injured.

:12:24. > :12:30.We are told 18 of those remain critically ill. Now this report from

:12:31. > :12:33.Allan Little on the victims of the London Bridge attack.

:12:34. > :12:36.The faces of those caught up in the attack reflect

:12:37. > :12:38.the character of London - diverse, global and a magnet

:12:39. > :12:41.drawing youth and energy from around the world.

:12:42. > :12:45.Chrissy Archibald, who was 30 and from Canada, was walking

:12:46. > :12:49.on London Bridge with her fiance Tyler Ferguson when she was struck

:12:50. > :12:56.He heard tyres screeching, and he looked back and he just saw

:12:57. > :13:01.the mayhem that was going on, and the van hitting people.

:13:02. > :13:05.And then he ran up and tried CPR on her.

:13:06. > :13:10.Her family said she would not have understood the callous cruelty

:13:11. > :13:17.The French Foreign Ministry said one French citizen was murdered,

:13:18. > :13:18.another seven French nationals were injured, four

:13:19. > :13:26.Candice Hedge was one of four Australians injured.

:13:27. > :13:30.She was stabbed in the throat and is now recovering in hospital.

:13:31. > :13:33.She was hiding at the time and the guy got her, and stabbed her

:13:34. > :13:41.But I eventually got onto the hospital, and they spoke

:13:42. > :13:49.She is going to be OK, that's the main thing.

:13:50. > :13:51.Daniel O'Neill, who's 23, suffered a seven inch

:13:52. > :13:56.His life was saved by a friend, who stopped the bleeding

:13:57. > :14:07.Jeff Ho, a journalist, was stabbed while trying to stop

:14:08. > :14:11.I don't know whether it was stupid or noble, he said on Facebook,

:14:12. > :14:13.but that wasn't going to happen on my watch.

:14:14. > :14:17.Oliver Dowling from New Zealand needed four hours of surgery.

:14:18. > :14:19.His French girlfriend was also injured, and is in

:14:20. > :14:23.Brett Freeman, who is from East London, is a father of three

:14:24. > :14:26.A friend posted this picture on social media

:14:27. > :14:31.18 people remain critically ill, most of those who died

:14:32. > :14:35.The list of those killed and injured reflects

:14:36. > :14:42.An attack in London sends its anguish around the world.

:14:43. > :14:57.Many hundreds of people were caught up in the attack on Saturday. One of

:14:58. > :15:01.them was Richard Angell, who is joining me live by London Bridge.

:15:02. > :15:06.Thank you for coming out, I know it is a really unpleasant evening. You

:15:07. > :15:11.are back in town because you went to the jaw earlier. Yes, we went to the

:15:12. > :15:16.Vigil where Sadiq Khan I think spoke for everyone in this city as the

:15:17. > :15:19.Mayor of London. He spoke about our unity, our diversity, and how we

:15:20. > :15:22.will not let these people change our lives. They don't speak for people

:15:23. > :15:25.of his faith, they don't speak to people of any faith, and they don't

:15:26. > :15:29.speak for the carriage of London that will come through this. And we

:15:30. > :15:33.remember the seven people who are now not with their loved ones,

:15:34. > :15:39.friends and families, and the 21 still in hospital. Tell me what

:15:40. > :15:43.happened to you on Saturday. I was having a lovely Saturday night out

:15:44. > :15:46.with my friends at a restaurant in Borough market. We were sitting at

:15:47. > :15:49.the table near the door and it became apparent that the security to

:15:50. > :15:55.the venue were saying lock the door and duck and hide. And this young

:15:56. > :15:58.waiter, who is clearly overworked and underpaid, put his foot against

:15:59. > :16:01.the door and his body weight on these big glass windows and he

:16:02. > :16:05.protected Lascuna won us could get in. Everyone else panicked not

:16:06. > :16:10.unreasonably, turned over tables, got under chairs, try to get some

:16:11. > :16:13.semblance of safety. I was able to look around what was happening,

:16:14. > :16:17.opposite I could see a guy throwing a table, but I found out afterwards

:16:18. > :16:20.it was that heroic guy who was throwing stuff at one of the

:16:21. > :16:24.assailants were stabbing a young woman. He put her life before his

:16:25. > :16:28.and we thank him for that, he is one of the heroes of that story. At that

:16:29. > :16:33.point did you will as that was something out of the ordinary. It

:16:34. > :16:36.was clear from the beginning that it was a terrorist attack, it was no

:16:37. > :16:39.drill. You didn't want to take a second chance at doing the right

:16:40. > :16:43.thing the first time and people active. So how long after those

:16:44. > :16:50.initial moments to jihad to stay inside the restaurant? We saw

:16:51. > :16:52.someone coming out covered in blood holding their neck or upper chest

:16:53. > :17:02.structuring -- staggering through. Police at the area, gunshots went

:17:03. > :17:06.off and I am Thorup was just eight minutes. Relying on journalists like

:17:07. > :17:10.yourself, people on Twitter, to try and patch together what was

:17:11. > :17:14.happening around us. And you have been back to meet the restaurant

:17:15. > :17:18.owner this evening? We have been to have a drink with him, we are

:17:19. > :17:22.determined to go back and pay Abel. We haven't had a chance to do that.

:17:23. > :17:27.It is still cordoned off as a crime scene. We want to tip those people,

:17:28. > :17:31.putting your body behind a glass door to stop someone getting in

:17:32. > :17:37.doesn't deserve a double fit, I don't what does. We met another guy

:17:38. > :17:41.at the Vigil who I read about his story at the Evening Standard, he

:17:42. > :17:44.couldn't get back to his flat and these two lovely women took him in,

:17:45. > :17:48.and he wants me to say thank you to them and we're having a drink with

:17:49. > :17:53.him as well this evening, because London is determined that these

:17:54. > :17:57.people shall not, will not win, and I thought Sadiq Khan spoke for all

:17:58. > :17:59.of us. If having a gin and tonic, flirting with handsome men and

:18:00. > :18:03.hanging out with strong women offends these people so much, we are

:18:04. > :18:07.going to do it time and time again, because that is what makes London so

:18:08. > :18:11.great. Thank you to coming to see us. Richard was talking about Sadiq

:18:12. > :18:15.Khan. He has been on the receiving end for a second time of a very

:18:16. > :18:19.critical tweet from Donald Trump. A lot of people are slightly amused

:18:20. > :18:22.about why Donald Trump is picking a fight with Sadiq Khan at this

:18:23. > :19:08.moment. We will be live in Washington, DC to discuss that.

:19:09. > :19:46.Welcome back to Outside Source. I hope you can hear me about the rain

:19:47. > :19:49.in the wind, because the weather is deteriorating here, just close the

:19:50. > :19:53.London Bridge. Behind me you can probably see the Shard. At the base

:19:54. > :19:57.of the Shard is London Bridge station and it was not far from

:19:58. > :20:00.there that the atrocity of Saturday night played out, with the bike --

:20:01. > :20:03.with a white van in mounting the pavement on the bridge and three men

:20:04. > :20:08.exiting the van and beginning to stab people in the street. Our lead

:20:09. > :20:11.story on Outside Source today is that the authorities had named two

:20:12. > :20:18.of the three attackers, and we understand one called Khuram Butt,

:20:19. > :20:25.featured in a Channel 4 documentary and was known to the security

:20:26. > :20:30.services. Now, a lot of you would have been aware of a couple of

:20:31. > :20:33.tweets that Donald Trump sent in the hours after the London attack.

:20:34. > :20:41.lot of dubstep from particularly in the city, was the president saying

:20:42. > :20:46.at least seven dead, 48 wounded, and the Mayor of London says there is no

:20:47. > :20:49.reason to be alarmed. Well, the Mayor of London in that case was

:20:50. > :20:54.being taken completely out of context by the president, because in

:20:55. > :20:55.fact what Sadiq Khan had said was that people have no reason to be

:20:56. > :21:05.alarmed. When asked about that particular

:21:06. > :21:09.riposte from Donald Trump, Sadiq Khan's spokesperson said we are not

:21:10. > :21:12.going to get into responding to that, we have better things to do.

:21:13. > :21:18.Donald Trump came out today and sent a second tweet, in which to use the

:21:19. > :21:29.US phrase, he doubled down, criticising the London mayor again.

:21:30. > :21:35.A couple of things to offer here. Sadiq Khan didn't offer an excuse in

:21:36. > :21:39.response to his initial statement, it just wasn't there, so we are not

:21:40. > :21:43.sure what Donald Trump is referring to there. Second of all, his

:21:44. > :21:46.statement was so clear and easy to understand, it is hard to imagine

:21:47. > :21:48.how the president came to misinterpret it, unless he meant the

:21:49. > :21:51.misinterpreted. Let's speak to Anthony

:21:52. > :21:57.Zurcher in Washington. There are a lot of people in the

:21:58. > :22:00.city who are very angry with what Mr Trump said but also bemused that

:22:01. > :22:07.something that is so easy to prove to be wrong is something that he

:22:08. > :22:11.continues to criticise. Right, and Donald Trump had a public appearance

:22:12. > :22:15.earlier today and he did not comment on it at all, didn't take any

:22:16. > :22:20.questions. Reporters during the regular White House press conference

:22:21. > :22:25.asked Sarah Huckabee Sanders, deputy secretary, if Donald Trump was

:22:26. > :22:28.trying to pick a fight with Amir Khan, and he said not at all, coming

:22:29. > :22:34.was focusing on national security -- with Sadiq Khan. Then they asked if

:22:35. > :22:39.he was being targeted by Donald Trump because he was a Muslim mayor

:22:40. > :22:42.and she said it was utterly with the killers. She said what Donald Trump

:22:43. > :22:48.was trying to say is that there was reason to be alarmed over the rise

:22:49. > :22:51.in Islamic extremism in the world. So in other words she answered a

:22:52. > :22:56.question that was not opposed to her and basically did not directly

:22:57. > :23:02.address anything about why Donald Trump decided to pick this fight,

:23:03. > :23:06.where he got the idea about what Sadiq Khan said was talking about

:23:07. > :23:12.being alarmed over a terrorist attack. Nonetheless, Anthony, it is

:23:13. > :23:16.quite something for the American president to say in the 48 hours

:23:17. > :23:24.after a terror attack in the capital of one of America's supposedly

:23:25. > :23:27.closest allies. Absolutely. It is very remarkable, but then again

:23:28. > :23:33.Donald Trump has a tendency of trying to take incidents like this,

:23:34. > :23:38.high profile attacks like this, and use them to political advantage. It

:23:39. > :23:44.was after the Paris attack, I believe, that he first unveiled in

:23:45. > :23:49.December 2015 his proposal for an outright ban on Muslim integration

:23:50. > :23:52.into the US, and his standing within the Republican party, among party

:23:53. > :23:55.voters went up after that, and time and time again you see instances

:23:56. > :23:59.where there has been an attack or some sort of incident and Donald

:24:00. > :24:03.Trump has reacted very aggressively in condemning it and saying it is an

:24:04. > :24:08.example of why the US must do more to take on Islamic extremism. So it

:24:09. > :24:12.isn't out of keeping with the way Donald Trump has behaved on the

:24:13. > :24:17.campaign trail, and as president. But, mind you, it is particularly

:24:18. > :24:22.pointed, given the fact that it is the Mayor of London, and the UK is

:24:23. > :24:26.one of our closest allies. I think he is getting a lot of criticism

:24:27. > :24:30.here within the US on this topic. And just before the end of this half

:24:31. > :24:33.of the programme, explain to us what the president has been saying about

:24:34. > :24:36.the travel ban and the department of justice and the Supreme Court,

:24:37. > :24:42.because it is getting confusing exactly what he would like to

:24:43. > :24:47.happen. Exactly. First of all he tweeted earlier today that he did in

:24:48. > :24:50.fact call for a travel ban, the word ban is something he would use to

:24:51. > :24:54.describe it. Other people in the ministers and have backed off using

:24:55. > :24:57.that term because it was too closely allied with the Muslim ban he

:24:58. > :25:03.proposed earlier. But I think what he is saying is trying to come up

:25:04. > :25:07.with some sort of immigration action, it is too watered down, too

:25:08. > :25:11.politically correct. He would much rather see a sweeping action, much

:25:12. > :25:17.like his original travel ban that he proposed in January, that had a

:25:18. > :25:21.religious component to it and would have possibly affected people who

:25:22. > :25:26.even had immigration, valid immigration papers are coming into

:25:27. > :25:30.the US. Anthony, thank you very much indeed. Yes, I think it is fair to

:25:31. > :25:34.say that in London a lot of people fall into two categories. One group

:25:35. > :25:37.of people think the state visits scheduled for later this year is not

:25:38. > :25:42.something they approve of, or they would welcome the state visit as an

:25:43. > :25:44.opportunity to communicate the Donald Trump exactly how they feel

:25:45. > :25:50.about his criticism of this city's mayor. That is it for this half of

:25:51. > :25:54.Outside Source. I will be back with you for another half an hour with

:25:55. > :25:55.all the latest on the investigations into the London Bridge terror

:25:56. > :26:00.attack. Speak to you in a bit.