0:00:02 > 0:00:03BBC Four Collections -
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0:00:06 > 0:00:07For this Collection,
0:00:07 > 0:00:08Sir Michael Parkinson
0:00:08 > 0:00:10has selected BBC interviews
0:00:10 > 0:00:12with influential figures
0:00:12 > 0:00:13of the 20th century.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15More programmes on this theme
0:00:15 > 0:00:16and other BBC Four Collections
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0:00:20 > 0:00:22Mr Dali, we're going to talk in English,
0:00:22 > 0:00:24which I know is not your language,
0:00:24 > 0:00:27but I'm sure you're going to manage wonderfully.
0:00:27 > 0:00:33Er, yes, my English remain very, very problematic.
0:00:33 > 0:00:38But...this is not so important, because if somebody catch
0:00:38 > 0:00:42only a little piece of my ideas,
0:00:42 > 0:00:45this is absolutely sufficient,
0:00:45 > 0:00:50because Dalinian ideas possess a tremendous power of germination.
0:00:50 > 0:00:52Well, I quite see that.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55And also I would beg of you to speak and speak ceaselessly,
0:00:55 > 0:00:57even if you don't speak in English,
0:00:57 > 0:00:59because I am always accused of speaking
0:00:59 > 0:01:00and I want to speak as little possible,
0:01:00 > 0:01:03otherwise I shall be torn limb from limb.
0:01:03 > 0:01:04The first question I wanted to put to you
0:01:04 > 0:01:07really ought to be about modern art,
0:01:07 > 0:01:10but I can't help it. There's some delicious frivolity in you
0:01:10 > 0:01:11which makes me ask it -
0:01:11 > 0:01:15how did you manage to produce those marvellous moustaches?
0:01:15 > 0:01:19In the beginning of this moustache,
0:01:19 > 0:01:21is one very natural product.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24- The Dax. You know, the pffff! - I know.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27In the last moment of dinner,
0:01:27 > 0:01:29- I not clean my fingers... - Yes.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32And I put a little in my moustache,
0:01:32 > 0:01:38remain for all afternoon, very fresh and efficient...er, efficiently.
0:01:38 > 0:01:41- Mm. And that's how it began? - Yes.
0:01:41 > 0:01:46But now, this one, real product, very good, in the Place Vendome.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49Is Hungarian wax.
0:01:49 > 0:01:51- Oh, yes. - Pinaud.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54It's a very well-known wax.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57Already Proust, Marcel Proust used the same.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59Yes, but his was a little pointed one, wasn't it?
0:01:59 > 0:02:01It didn't have a splendid up-turn like yours.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05Yes, he used his wax...used his wax in another manner, you know,
0:02:05 > 0:02:08another mode, in one depressing...
0:02:08 > 0:02:11psychologist...way.
0:02:11 > 0:02:12Yes, I see.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14A little depressing and melancholic.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16My moustache, contrarily, is very gay...
0:02:16 > 0:02:17Very gay.
0:02:17 > 0:02:19..very pointed, very aggressive. Aggressive.
0:02:19 > 0:02:21Do you have any trouble with it at night?
0:02:21 > 0:02:23Do you have to peg it or anything like that?
0:02:23 > 0:02:25Or does it stand up at night?
0:02:25 > 0:02:27No, in the night, er... Clean, every night.
0:02:27 > 0:02:29It's becoming soft.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31So, at night, it droops down, while you're sleeping?
0:02:31 > 0:02:33Completely.
0:02:33 > 0:02:34And in the morning, up she goes again?
0:02:34 > 0:02:36Three minutes. Only in three minutes, I fix my moustache.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38And then you feel you can face the world,
0:02:38 > 0:02:40with that wonderful moustache standing up?
0:02:40 > 0:02:45Yes, because every day becoming much more practical for my inspiration.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48Well, I'm fascinated to know that.
0:02:48 > 0:02:50Mr Dali, you've come over, haven't you,
0:02:50 > 0:02:52to paint a portrait of Sir Laurence Olivier?
0:02:52 > 0:02:54- Exact. - How's it going?
0:02:54 > 0:02:56Very good. Very good.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59Only about 15 minutes, is almost complete.
0:02:59 > 0:03:01You did the whole thing in 15 minutes?
0:03:01 > 0:03:03Sitting hours?
0:03:03 > 0:03:06Taking two hours for...
0:03:07 > 0:03:09..everything.
0:03:09 > 0:03:14And myself, in 50 minutes, I complete the portrait.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17Now, is necessary only the realisation of his portrait.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20It is perhaps one month.
0:03:20 > 0:03:25But everything is in my mind, very clear and very violent.
0:03:25 > 0:03:27Is it going to be what we would regard
0:03:27 > 0:03:30perhaps in our old-fashioned way
0:03:30 > 0:03:32as a somewhat eccentric picture?
0:03:32 > 0:03:34Is it going to have lobsters and things like that in it
0:03:34 > 0:03:37or is it going to be like him?
0:03:37 > 0:03:40This portrait, in my opinion,
0:03:40 > 0:03:43is perhaps one of the most sensational.
0:03:43 > 0:03:47Is not possible to talk nothing in advance,
0:03:47 > 0:03:50because everything is possible happen in my life.
0:03:50 > 0:03:55And nobody look this portrait before it's completely finished.
0:03:55 > 0:03:58This is my condition, for the start this portrait.
0:03:58 > 0:04:05I also no like to paint the legend, the historical legend of Shakespeare,
0:04:05 > 0:04:12no like paint historical people, no like paint Sir Laurence Olivier,
0:04:12 > 0:04:15like to paint this character in the film,
0:04:15 > 0:04:21like produce one integral and complete Dalinian portrait.
0:04:21 > 0:04:23Good. We shall all look forward to seeing it.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26He is, I believe, in the costume of this film, Richard III,
0:04:26 > 0:04:29- in which he's appearing, isn't he? - Yes, yes, yes.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31Do you bring that out, the costume?
0:04:31 > 0:04:35No, taking notice sufficient, very much one...
0:04:35 > 0:04:39- animal, the centre of... - Mmm.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42Comment ca s'appelle en anglais... Le sanglier.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44The sanglier, the blood?
0:04:44 > 0:04:45You mean? The spirit?
0:04:45 > 0:04:48Non, non, non, le sanglier. Des animals avec...
0:04:48 > 0:04:49Oh, le sanglier. Sanglier.
0:04:49 > 0:04:53The...the...what the hell is sanglier?
0:04:53 > 0:04:54Rhinoceros, is it?
0:04:54 > 0:04:56It's a little...
0:04:56 > 0:04:58A little tiny thing. What's it like? Describe it.
0:04:58 > 0:05:02C'est le, le... C'est un porc avec des longues dents...
0:05:02 > 0:05:06Oui, oui, oui... C'est un boar. C'est un boar.
0:05:06 > 0:05:11C'est le totem, c'est exactement le totem of Richard...
0:05:11 > 0:05:15Of, yes. So Sir Laurence and Richard III
0:05:15 > 0:05:19will both resemble this delicious animal with the teeth.
0:05:19 > 0:05:25Exactly. It's one big collar in enamel, gold enamel,
0:05:25 > 0:05:30and precious stones in the centre, representing the totem of it.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32I can't wait to see it. When shall...?
0:05:32 > 0:05:35Very aggressive, a boar, you know? Pointed.
0:05:35 > 0:05:36I know, I know.
0:05:36 > 0:05:37Yes.
0:05:37 > 0:05:39Mr Dali, who apart from yourself,
0:05:39 > 0:05:42would you regard as a good portrait painter today?
0:05:42 > 0:05:44Um...I believe there does not exist one.
0:05:44 > 0:05:45Who?
0:05:45 > 0:05:47- In modern times. - Nobody?
0:05:47 > 0:05:49At all? Have you ever seen...?
0:05:49 > 0:05:54Picasso is the only possible, create extraordinary good portraits.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57Men don't like it, this kind of activity.
0:05:57 > 0:06:01Augustus John, do you like... Have you ever seen any of his portraits?
0:06:01 > 0:06:07Has a very big ability in drawing, very good draughtsmanship, drawing.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11But the painting, appear me...
0:06:11 > 0:06:16the same characteristics of a lot of English painters, you know?
0:06:16 > 0:06:21Very dirty, and very melancholic, sad and depressing.
0:06:21 > 0:06:22Very depressing.
0:06:22 > 0:06:24You feel that our art as a whole
0:06:24 > 0:06:27suffers from an undue excess of melancholy, really?
0:06:27 > 0:06:28Much melancholy.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31I noticed you'd been to see some exhibition,
0:06:31 > 0:06:33and there was a donkey there in it...
0:06:33 > 0:06:38Yes, you just can indeed talk about this melancholy,
0:06:38 > 0:06:40remember this exhibit,
0:06:40 > 0:06:46every work of one of these... these very young British painters.
0:06:46 > 0:06:51Everyone paint the more sad and melancholic kind
0:06:51 > 0:06:55of animals, fish, people, houses.
0:06:55 > 0:07:00Everything is very dirty as well, the more dirty colours
0:07:00 > 0:07:03and the more depressing effects.
0:07:03 > 0:07:05Why do you think that is? Why should they all be so sad?
0:07:05 > 0:07:09Why should they paint this poor old donkey with such a sad...
0:07:09 > 0:07:10This is what I try to understand,
0:07:10 > 0:07:14the reason that these young people are so melancholic, you understand?
0:07:14 > 0:07:16Because I myself believe, contrary,
0:07:16 > 0:07:22that the modern atomic age is very gay.
0:07:22 > 0:07:24- Mmm. - Nothing is more gay
0:07:24 > 0:07:27que la collision and explosion
0:07:27 > 0:07:30of intra-atomic conflicts of nuclear physics.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33It's... You feel that that really livens things up enormously?
0:07:33 > 0:07:38For me, the more happy thing is... look, these terrific conflicts
0:07:38 > 0:07:41about electrons and atoms,
0:07:41 > 0:07:44everything jumping and romping
0:07:44 > 0:07:50in a completely extraordinary, rhythmic feeling.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54- Yes, I see what you mean. - Myself, every day is more gay.
0:07:54 > 0:07:57Et around me, look everybody, every day more sad.
0:07:57 > 0:08:04More depressing, and more physical and moral exhaustation.
0:08:04 > 0:08:08Do you find that true in New York as well as here in poor old Europe?
0:08:08 > 0:08:12No. New York, in this moment, offer one...
0:08:12 > 0:08:17very big quantity of abstract painters.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20Myself, no like it, abstract painting,
0:08:20 > 0:08:24because believe it is only one part of...
0:08:24 > 0:08:27Is one decorative art, but these paintings of New York,
0:08:27 > 0:08:29there's plenty of vitality.
0:08:29 > 0:08:31And on the whole, rather...
0:08:31 > 0:08:37Enormous vitality, completely, er...explosive.
0:08:37 > 0:08:42Would you still call yourself a Surrealist as a painter?
0:08:42 > 0:08:45You were originally, you belonged to the School of Surrealism in Paris.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47Yes. I believe now, myself,
0:08:47 > 0:08:53that all the Surrealists continue this kind of inspiration.
0:08:53 > 0:08:57You are, in fact, the sole survivor of the Surrealist movement, really.
0:08:57 > 0:09:02Yes. Avec la difference to myself like, incorporate and sublimate,
0:09:02 > 0:09:06the fierce experience of my life,
0:09:06 > 0:09:10in the big classical tradition of Spanish painters.
0:09:10 > 0:09:14Well, the bottom of my inspiration
0:09:14 > 0:09:20remains completely Dalian and Surrealistic.
0:09:20 > 0:09:22But the school, as a school, you feel,
0:09:22 > 0:09:24has rather gone out of existence?
0:09:24 > 0:09:27Le school is disappear because...
0:09:27 > 0:09:31becoming one academic school avec no personality.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35It also collapse in this kind of sadness and melancholy
0:09:35 > 0:09:39of the other kind of modern schools.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42I see. So that really, you feel that Surrealism,
0:09:42 > 0:09:45having started when you were with it as very gay,
0:09:45 > 0:09:47has now sunk into melancholy and despair,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50and that you alone remain as a true representative of it.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52Absolutely.
0:09:52 > 0:09:56Now, all your wonderful jokes that we know about,
0:09:56 > 0:09:58taxi cabs with the rain inside, and so on,
0:09:58 > 0:10:00you're going to go on with those jokes?
0:10:00 > 0:10:06Er...this correspond a fierce period of my life.
0:10:06 > 0:10:13Er...the moment of myself with very big interest in psychoanalysis,
0:10:13 > 0:10:17- coming London for meet le Dr Freud. - Mmm.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20Mais now, my interest is only about
0:10:20 > 0:10:23le tremendous progress of nuclear research,
0:10:23 > 0:10:25and nuclear physics.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29And so, really, those...that represented a phase in your career,
0:10:29 > 0:10:32those jokes that we all knew about, and now you move on,
0:10:32 > 0:10:35and all your life will be to the rhythm of atomic explosion.
0:10:35 > 0:10:41Exactly. One new kind of atomic and nuclear mysticism.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45Well, thank you very much, that's a fascinating phrase,
0:10:45 > 0:10:46nuclear mysticism.