:00:33. > :00:37.�6.08 an hour. The law says that's the minimum wage adults should be
:00:37. > :00:42.earning. We go undercover to expose the companies who're flouting the
:00:42. > :00:47.rules. How much mostly did you earn on a
:00:47. > :00:50.week to week basis? Did you read the advert? Yeah, it said, was it
:00:50. > :00:53.250? It's performance-based. That's meaningless. It's performance-based.
:00:53. > :00:56.What does that mean? We're out with the inspectors who're clamping down
:00:56. > :00:59.on rogue employers. How much did you get paid for last week? Don't
:00:59. > :01:03.know. And hearing from young people who're being asked to work for
:01:03. > :01:06.nothing. I was managing a team of seven people and they were all
:01:06. > :01:16.unpaid as well. We reveal the true facts about the army of workers for
:01:16. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:39.We're all feeling the squeeze in austerity Britain. It's everywhere
:01:39. > :01:47.you look, from the pawnbrokers and discount stores, to men waiting
:01:47. > :01:51.each morning for casual work. More than two and a half million people
:01:51. > :01:55.are out of work. And nearly two thirds of people with a job have
:01:55. > :02:05.had their pay frozen or cut this year. But wages have actually gone
:02:05. > :02:07.
:02:07. > :02:13.For the wealthy, �6.08 won't even park the car for very long but
:02:13. > :02:17.that's the new hourly rate for the NMW. And for many workers at the
:02:17. > :02:20.bottom end of the pay scale, it can make all the difference in these
:02:20. > :02:27.tough economic times. But we've discovered that many British
:02:27. > :02:37.workers are being paid less than this - often much less. And some
:02:37. > :02:39.
:02:39. > :02:43.I'm off in search of the worst paid job in Britain. First stop, my home
:02:43. > :02:48.town of Glasgow. And a familiar sight we all dread. They're known
:02:48. > :02:53.as chuggers. Cold-calling door-to- door to get us to sign up for
:02:53. > :02:58.charity donations. It's a thankless job. And for some of the young
:02:58. > :03:01.people who do it, it's also very poorly paid. As an unemployed
:03:01. > :03:07.graduate, desperate for work, Matthew Parkes took a job like this
:03:07. > :03:14.last year. He didn't get minimum wage. He earned less than half that
:03:14. > :03:16.- just �2.85 an hour. You'd be working from about quarter past ten
:03:16. > :03:22.every morning until gone nine o'clock, sometimes gone ten o'clock
:03:22. > :03:25.at night, and then obviously travel on top of that. By the time you get
:03:25. > :03:29.home you're absolutely exhausted. I home you're absolutely exhausted. I
:03:29. > :03:32.worked about seventy hours in a worked about seventy hours in a
:03:32. > :03:37.week and earned around about �200. With youth unemployment at a record
:03:37. > :03:41.high, Matthew couldn't be too picky about work. But his company led him
:03:41. > :03:44.to believe he was a graduate trainee. Smiths Marketing
:03:44. > :03:46.Associates is still recruiting across the UK, so what else are
:03:46. > :03:55.they promising? We sent another young graduate, James Craig,
:03:55. > :04:04.undercover to find out. Fitted with a hidden camera, James went for a
:04:04. > :04:07.job interview at Smiths' Luton I'm here for an interview with
:04:07. > :04:10.Smiths Marketing. James doesn't get a chance to say very much at
:04:11. > :04:20.interview. Instead he's treated to a high-speed sales pitch. Nearly
:04:21. > :04:38.
:04:38. > :04:42.An impressive list of clients - if you can keep up. But all of them
:04:42. > :04:52.except the Red Cross told us they'd never worked with Smiths. How much
:04:52. > :05:09.
:05:10. > :05:14.then can a trainee like James �10,000 a week? That would be half
:05:14. > :05:18.a million a year! The interviewer gets up to go having barely paused
:05:18. > :05:28.for breath. But he hasn't told James what he'll earn yet. So James
:05:28. > :05:36.
:05:36. > :05:41.After twelve minutes of high-octane delivery, that was all he had to
:05:41. > :05:47.say about pay. So James and I took the secret footage to show to top
:05:47. > :05:55.employment barrister Simon Cheetham. That's meaningless. It's
:05:55. > :06:00.performance-based. What does that mean? It may mean that it's
:06:00. > :06:04.commission-only but of course I'm not sure when you'd find that out.
:06:04. > :06:06.But the fact that he's so reluctant to tell you how much you're going
:06:06. > :06:09.to earn, I'd have thought would make every warning sign flash.
:06:09. > :06:13.Exactly, yeah and the advert specified �250 a week figure that
:06:13. > :06:16.when I tried to highlight there he just seemed to brush over it there
:06:16. > :06:19.without any allusion to it whatsoever. Are Smiths young
:06:19. > :06:24.recruits simply being exploited then? Another researcher Nana
:06:25. > :06:29.Wilson got a job with the Glasgow team. He was told his earnings
:06:30. > :06:33.would be based entirely on sales. On his first day, Nana's job was to
:06:33. > :06:42.persuade people to sign up for a direct debit to the British Red
:06:42. > :06:47.Cross. After work, he kept a video diary. It's now almost midnight and
:06:47. > :06:50.I've been working since 10 o'clock. I got there at 10:15, I'm tired,
:06:50. > :07:00.I've made no money whatsoever today, I've knocked on doors, spoken to
:07:00. > :07:03.
:07:03. > :07:10.people, I've had no hits. Bedtime. I've got to go and sell things
:07:10. > :07:20.tomorrow. In fact, Nana didn't make a single sale in three days. So no
:07:20. > :07:23.pay for him. But what about his more experienced colleagues? One of
:07:23. > :07:30.the other team leaders was really quite chuffed and proud of the fact
:07:30. > :07:40.that he did 81 hours and he only got �350 out of that. That's just
:07:40. > :07:44.
:07:44. > :07:47.over �4 an hour - still well below minimum wage. So are Smiths exempt
:07:47. > :07:50.from the law because they tell workers it's commission only?
:07:50. > :07:54.would be far too easy a way to get round paying the national minimum
:07:54. > :07:57.wage, and so you would look at the pay period, for example, the month
:07:57. > :08:00.over which the pay is calculated, and that person would be entitled
:08:00. > :08:02.to the national minimum wage for that period. So even if they're
:08:02. > :08:08.told it's commssion only, they should get a national minimum wage?
:08:08. > :08:14.Absolutely, that's the law. then do Smiths get away with paying
:08:14. > :08:17.some workers so little? Well, read the small print in their job ads.
:08:17. > :08:21."You will be working on a self- employed basis so the number of
:08:21. > :08:24.successful sales you make will determine your weekly earnings".
:08:24. > :08:31.Under the law, employees are entitled to minimum wage but the
:08:31. > :08:38.self-employed are not. Are the hard-working young people at Smiths
:08:38. > :08:41.really self-employed, though? Let's see if James can find out. He's
:08:41. > :08:45.been called back for a second interview in Luton that actually
:08:45. > :08:51.turns into a day's unpaid work experience. He's asked to hit the
:08:51. > :08:54.streets with other new recruits. For the first half hour, you're
:08:54. > :08:58.going to be with me, so I'll pitch to two doors and then you'll pitch
:08:58. > :09:01.to one and when you get more comfortable just let me know and
:09:01. > :09:05.I'll let you go on your own. team leader seems pretty clear
:09:05. > :09:09.about where and when she expects James to work for Smiths. 12:30
:09:09. > :09:16.till 2pm is lunch, travel to get to our location and 2 till 8:30 is
:09:16. > :09:26.work, so basically what we're doing now, knocking on people's doors.
:09:26. > :09:28.
:09:28. > :09:33.Saturdays, obviously we do have a life. It's 9:30 till 5. Six days a
:09:33. > :09:36.week, full time, doesn't sound very self-employed. The more that the
:09:36. > :09:40.employer controls what the person does, tells him what to do, what
:09:40. > :09:43.hours they do, requires them and only them to do it, the more likely
:09:43. > :09:53.that person must be an employee. asked Smiths by letter why they're
:09:53. > :09:57.
:09:57. > :10:07.paying less than minimum wage. They didn't even respond. The British
:10:07. > :10:09.
:10:09. > :10:12.Red Cross told us: So how many companies are using the self-
:10:12. > :10:16.employed loophole to get round paying minimum wage? The TUC says
:10:17. > :10:19.paying minimum wage? The TUC says the problem is widespread. We've
:10:19. > :10:28.seen problems, for example, in the hairdressing sector, we've seen
:10:28. > :10:32.problems with couriers who're told that they're self-employed. We've
:10:32. > :10:35.seen problems with car valets, for example, who have to be at work at
:10:35. > :10:38.a certain time, who're told when to take their lunch break but are
:10:38. > :10:41.still told that they're self- employed so they're only able to
:10:41. > :10:45.earn a few pounds an hour as opposed to the minimum wage rate
:10:45. > :10:47.that they're legally entitled to. In the last year alone, for example,
:10:47. > :10:50.ten thousand hairdressers have become self-employed having
:10:50. > :10:59.previously been on a salon payroll. Mark Coray says it's the only way
:10:59. > :11:02.some businesses can survive. If the salon makes somebody self employed,
:11:02. > :11:07.the salon actually gets out of paying holidays, gets out of paying
:11:07. > :11:14.PAYE and any sick pay. So it's almost like a legal way of avoiding
:11:14. > :11:19.the high overheads that come with the minimum wage. So it's a way
:11:19. > :11:29.round it, really? Yes, you could say that. Mark says the minimum
:11:29. > :11:33.
:11:33. > :11:35.wage has forced him to lay off junior staff in his own salon.
:11:35. > :11:38.stylists, when they're having their colour rinsed off, they're having
:11:38. > :11:41.their client's hair shampooed, could be doing it themselves, so
:11:41. > :11:43.why would I want that extra higher expense? So you're employing fewer
:11:43. > :11:46.juniors directly as a result of national minimum wage? Definitely.
:11:46. > :11:52.Some say it's no surprise that small businesses are trying to find
:11:52. > :11:56.ways to beat the law. Why would you pay �6.08 for something that's only
:11:56. > :12:03.worth �5 an hour to your business? You're gonna try and find all sorts
:12:03. > :12:06.of ways round the system. My ideal would be to get rid of it. If you
:12:06. > :12:09.can't get rid of it, at least have different rates in different
:12:09. > :12:12.regions of the country, and certainly don't keep putting it up.
:12:12. > :12:17.Continuing to increase this is basically pricing out people from
:12:17. > :12:24.the labour market. The government says it's committed to the minimum
:12:24. > :12:31.wage. And the unions would fight any attempt to scrap it.
:12:31. > :12:34.evidence is very clear. Over the decades since the minimum wage has
:12:34. > :12:37.been introduced, there has simply not been a reduction in jobs, as a
:12:37. > :12:40.result of the minimum wage. In fact, poorer wages for the lowest paid
:12:40. > :12:45.workers, could result in even less money in people's pockets, less
:12:45. > :12:47.spending in the economy and fewer jobs being created. One group
:12:47. > :12:50.particularly vulnerable to exploitation is migrant workers.
:12:50. > :12:53.More than 1 in 10 are paid below minimum wage. Rural Lincolnshire,
:12:53. > :13:00.and we're on the road with the inspectors whose job it is to make
:13:01. > :13:03.sure workers get what they're entitled to. They've heard a group
:13:03. > :13:07.of foreign workers bussed in from Derby are picking vegetables in
:13:07. > :13:15.this field. We're going to talk to the workers to find out who they
:13:15. > :13:20.work for, what they're doing and The men are legally allowed to work
:13:20. > :13:30.here and should be paid minimum wage. But finding out if they are
:13:30. > :13:30.
:13:30. > :13:37.is easier said than done. Hello, do you speak English? A little bit.
:13:37. > :13:42.you know how much you're being paid? �2.75. Is that cash payment?
:13:42. > :13:46.Cash payment, yes? And do you get that in an envelope with a pay
:13:46. > :13:50.slip? Yes. Payslip. Turns out the men aren't paid by the hour.
:13:50. > :13:52.They're paid for each box of spring onions they harvest. So the
:13:52. > :13:57.inspector has a tough job working out exactly how much they're
:13:57. > :14:03.earning an hour. These workers are all being paid by piece rate which
:14:03. > :14:07.means they get paid �2.60 per box that they fill up of the onions.
:14:07. > :14:11.Even though they're on piece rate they still need to be paid the
:14:11. > :14:16.national minimum wage. The workers don't have any paperwork on them
:14:16. > :14:21.and getting the answers the inspector needs is proving tricky.
:14:21. > :14:28.And do you know the name of the agency? No. You don't know? That's
:14:28. > :14:34.alright. And does he bring the money here? No, in Derby. No, you
:14:34. > :14:44.get your money in Derby. How much did you get paid for last week?
:14:44. > :14:46.
:14:46. > :14:51.There have only been seven criminal prosecutions brought against
:14:51. > :14:57.employers for paying less than minimum wage sves since it was
:14:57. > :15:01.introduced over a decade ago. is a minority of employers who are
:15:01. > :15:04.keen to try and exploit the work force and take advantage of the
:15:04. > :15:09.fact the national minimum wage is rarely enforced through criminal
:15:09. > :15:15.sanction, so one would think it only be a fear of prosecution that
:15:15. > :15:19.would make them take it seriously. Last year alone, the taxman found
:15:19. > :15:23.that 23,000 people were owed nearly �4 million because they had been
:15:23. > :15:28.paid less than minimum wage. Exploited workers can take rogue
:15:28. > :15:33.employers to an employment tribunal. But getting what is owed isn't easy,
:15:33. > :15:40.as these two men have found. They didn't get minimum wage when they
:15:40. > :15:44.were employed at security guards in Glasgow, they were on just �3.50
:15:44. > :15:52.and hour. Jamal Dawsod wasn't paid at all for his final two months of
:15:52. > :15:57.work. How much were you owed? �5,000. That is a lot of money. You
:15:57. > :16:01.haven't seen a penny of it? didn't get a penny. He won an
:16:01. > :16:07.employment tribunal but to get what he is owed the company, First
:16:07. > :16:12.Response has to be tracked down. We found the registers office here. A
:16:12. > :16:16.small mailbox rented by the week in Glasgow. The order for payment
:16:16. > :16:25.can't be served by Jamal. He has to pay a Sheriff's officer to do that.
:16:25. > :16:28.After a long chat with staff inside, he emerges with bad news. First
:16:28. > :16:32.Response Security no longer maintain the rental of the box at
:16:32. > :16:37.the shop. Not withstanding the fact it has not been rented by the spon
:16:37. > :16:42.dents, it is still a registered office of the company. So where
:16:42. > :16:47.does that leave Jamal in terms of getting his money back? It means
:16:47. > :16:53.this document which is a charge for payment can't be served. Are you
:16:53. > :17:00.disappointed? Yes. Further attempts by us to contact First Response
:17:00. > :17:04.failed. Jamal has still not been paid his money. When Parliament
:17:04. > :17:08.passed the minimum wage legislation it was meant to protect all workers.
:17:08. > :17:12.But the effect of Government spending cuts has been to drive
:17:12. > :17:15.down wages for the two million people who work in the UK care
:17:15. > :17:21.industry. We have discovered that an increasing number are being paid
:17:21. > :17:25.below the minimum wage and that is affecting the whole sector. Take
:17:25. > :17:31.this woman. She doesn't want to be identified for fear of losing her
:17:31. > :17:36.present job. Her hourly rate was �6.16 and hour when she used to
:17:36. > :17:40.care 22 hours a day for someone with Alzheimer's. She was left with
:17:40. > :17:46.�3.36 an hour because se was paid nothing for the sleep over part of
:17:46. > :17:51.the shift. I wasn't able to get a good nights rest because I had
:17:51. > :17:55.broken sleep. I would be woken up by the lieant client at night and
:17:55. > :18:01.it was continuous. You work a whole week at a time and for less than
:18:01. > :18:05.the minimum wage. I think those people over there making policies
:18:05. > :18:14.and thing, they need to look at the real facts and the way life really
:18:14. > :18:19.is for carers in this country. Glasgow though, these workers are
:18:19. > :18:25.fighting back. With some companies paying below minimum wage,
:18:25. > :18:30.reputable care providers like their employers are having to cut wages
:18:30. > :18:38.to compete. This fight is not over. It won't be over until we sit down
:18:38. > :18:41.in that office and they agree to change things. These people aren't
:18:41. > :18:46.braving the rain to demonstrate against some fly-by-night private
:18:46. > :18:51.company that is out to make a fast buck. Quarriers is a charity with
:18:51. > :18:57.over 100 years expense of providing high quality social care, and its
:18:57. > :19:00.pay and conditions have been among the best in the sector. But the
:19:00. > :19:07.management say they have to reduce patience as cash strapped councils
:19:07. > :19:11.now expect them to deliver care contracts for less. Some of the
:19:11. > :19:19.charity's most experienced employees stand to lose the largest
:19:19. > :19:23.amount. A quarter of my wage or a fifth which works out between
:19:23. > :19:27.�4,000-�5,000 a year. I am worried about this. That is a lot of money
:19:27. > :19:36.for anybody. It is mortgage money. The charity's chief executive says
:19:36. > :19:41.it is simply a case of adapt or die. Are you taking a 20% pay cut?
:19:41. > :19:45.not. Why not? Bah that wouldn't solve the problem. I could take a
:19:45. > :19:48.100 percent pay cut and it wouldn't solve the problem. We are under
:19:48. > :19:52.pressure because we know that Local Authorities and Health Trusts are
:19:52. > :19:58.in a position where they are having to reduce the amount of money that
:19:58. > :20:03.is available for contracts. So they want us to do the same for less.
:20:03. > :20:08.And the reality of care workers pay is far worse than official figures
:20:08. > :20:13.suggest. We have been given exclusive access to ub
:20:13. > :20:17.unaccomplished research which shows they wildly underestimate the
:20:17. > :20:22.number of care workers earning less than minimum wage. Researchers say
:20:22. > :20:29.the true figure is at least five times higher. What we found, using
:20:29. > :20:32.the most recent data, on England, that round 9% of the direct care
:20:32. > :20:36.work force in England is paid under the national minimum wage. What is
:20:36. > :20:43.your estimate for the whole of the UK? If we assume the same patterns
:20:43. > :20:48.are across the UK, we then are talking about a range of 150-
:20:48. > :20:52.200,000 care workers. Up to 200,000 in the care sector are being short
:20:52. > :20:57.changed, there is a whole new generation that is being asked to
:20:57. > :21:01.work for nothing at all. Young graduates. With large debts and
:21:01. > :21:08.graduate unemployment at a 15 year high, pressure to get a job is
:21:08. > :21:12.intense. And some employers are exploiting their desperation by
:21:12. > :21:18.offering internships instead of paid work. A survey last month
:21:18. > :21:23.found that 43% of graduate internships are unpaid. One of the
:21:23. > :21:27.worst offenders is the media. After leaving university, Keri Hudson
:21:27. > :21:32.wanted to break into journalism. She took an unpaid internship to
:21:32. > :21:37.get work experience on a listings website called MyVillage. As soon
:21:37. > :21:41.as I started it was made clear it was unpaid, but I was getting
:21:41. > :21:46.rewarded with a portfolio of work and that it wouldn't warrant paying
:21:46. > :21:51.the stuff I was doing. Very quickly her unpaid work experience started
:21:51. > :21:55.to look suspiciously like a full- time job. In the second week of me
:21:55. > :22:03.working there, my credit on the website changed to senior editor. I
:22:03. > :22:07.was managing a team of seven people, and they were all unpaid as well.
:22:07. > :22:10.If they obliged to carry out any work, so you get the intern
:22:10. > :22:14.signature at a desk and realises the person next to them is being
:22:14. > :22:17.paid do the same. The intern then is probably going to be a worker,
:22:18. > :22:22.if they ra worker they are entitled to the national minimum wage. That
:22:22. > :22:25.is what Keri thought. Earlier this year she successfully claimed here
:22:25. > :22:30.at an employment tribunal she should have been paid minimum wage.
:22:30. > :22:40.She was awarded more than �1,000. The company that owns MyVillage
:22:40. > :22:54.
:22:54. > :22:59.Campaigners say the use of internships is spreading into all
:22:59. > :23:03.sorts of jobs, from catering to even receptionists. But it is the
:23:03. > :23:11.creative industries like fashion, that are most notorious for
:23:11. > :23:16.expecting interns to work for free, for months at a time. Fear of
:23:16. > :23:20.harming their job prospects prevents most for complaining. That
:23:20. > :23:24.is why this woman doesn't want identifying. She interned for
:23:24. > :23:29.Stella McCartney. It was a workplacement of three months of
:23:29. > :23:34.more working from nine to six as a minimum. You were working normal
:23:34. > :23:40.office hours but sometimes more every day of the week? Yes, we got
:23:40. > :23:43.travel into work and out of work. And �5 lunch vouchers every day.
:23:43. > :23:48.There was just so much responsibility on interns to keep
:23:48. > :23:54.the office going. More so than they needed to and people weren't given
:23:54. > :23:57.much training. But is the work of an intern worth the full minimum
:23:57. > :24:01.wage? Supposing somebody is offering a bit of work experience,
:24:01. > :24:06.maybe it is for six month, maybe for one week. Are you doing the
:24:06. > :24:12.intern a favour or are they doing you a favour? You can't pay
:24:13. > :24:18.anything between 0 and �6.08. This causes real problems for
:24:18. > :24:21.internships. It is an all-or- nothing situation. At the end of
:24:21. > :24:26.the day you did get some valuable work experience. Some people might
:24:26. > :24:29.say it is fair enough that you work for nothing. We did have some
:24:29. > :24:34.really great opportunities that we got to do like every so often you
:24:34. > :24:37.get to do some great stuff. But most of the time, it was just
:24:37. > :24:43.ridiculous, like paperwork and stressful hours. So things that
:24:43. > :24:48.weren't really helping us as interns. Who are there to learn.
:24:48. > :24:53.With so many young people out of work, she had no real bargaining
:24:53. > :24:58.power. Did anyone think to ask to be paid? No it is not an option. If
:24:58. > :25:02.you asked, if you complain or if you ask to be paid they will be
:25:02. > :25:05.like, leave, because there are so many other people who want that
:25:05. > :25:15.that they don't need you there there are more people who will do
:25:15. > :25:30.
:25:30. > :25:35.the work for free. Stella With unpaid internships in
:25:35. > :25:37.industries like fashion so rife, the Government accomplished new
:25:37. > :25:42.guidelines that clarified when internships should be paid. But
:25:42. > :25:44.some fear that is not enough. welcome the guidance that has been
:25:44. > :25:48.accomplished. We also think information on its own is not
:25:49. > :25:52.enough, what we need is targeted enforcements in sectors where we
:25:52. > :25:56.know from evidence that internships are rife, and we would like to see
:25:56. > :25:59.the Government's minimum wage enforcement teams taking that
:25:59. > :26:05.forward as a priority. What are the chances of the Government pushing
:26:05. > :26:08.for more prosecutions, when MPs themselves stand accused of ex
:26:08. > :26:12.ploilploiting interns. The Deputy Prime Minister has said no
:26:12. > :26:19.Westminster intern should be unpaid. But what is the reality? A quick
:26:19. > :26:23.ring round of MPs offices, finds many still using interns. It is
:26:23. > :26:26.across the political spectrum and more often than not they get little
:26:26. > :26:34.more than expenses. I want to find out if you are recruiting any
:26:34. > :26:40.interns at the moment. I think we do it on a long-term basis.
:26:40. > :26:48.internships going? Yes, the best thing tho is send a CV. Just
:26:48. > :26:51.experiences? A confidential trade union survey offered a fuller
:26:51. > :26:54.fuller concern. One said why should only rich people from London be
:26:54. > :27:04.able to gain experience in Parliament? Another said. We have
:27:04. > :27:05.
:27:05. > :27:10.to rely on the help of unpaid interns. It is unfair. So is this
:27:10. > :27:17.the end of the road in my search for the worst paid job in Britain?
:27:17. > :27:22.Not quite. Meet Norse. He was an intern for an -- Ciaran Norris. He
:27:22. > :27:26.didn't get minimum wage. He didn't get any salary. In fact he paid
:27:26. > :27:33.�1200 to work. It was a placement arranged as part of his degree
:27:33. > :27:38.course. So you paid them to work at Westminster? Yes, I think that is
:27:38. > :27:43.what most people do. You want this priceless experience. That is how
:27:43. > :27:48.they sell it. It is, but it isn't because you end up paying a lot to
:27:48. > :27:54.do it. He paid half course fees to Hull university but he says he was
:27:54. > :27:57.a full-time reSERPS at Westminster. It was a job of work. You did a lot
:27:57. > :28:01.of the things researchers do you respond to constituents. You are
:28:02. > :28:06.responsible for producing briefs at short notice. Hull university says
:28:07. > :28:16.he was aware of the financial arrangements before he took up the
:28:17. > :28:30.
:28:30. > :28:33.Ciaran accepts it was valuable experience but says he hadn't
:28:34. > :28:38.anticipated how much debt it would leave him in and he expected better
:28:38. > :28:41.from MPs. This is a place that is supposed to be setting the standard.
:28:41. > :28:45.We have seen examples of how they have been doing the opposite. I
:28:45. > :28:49.think it is fairly cheap to say we want people to come in and have
:28:49. > :28:55.these opportunities but at the same time we don't b want, we want them
:28:55. > :29:00.to indebt themselves. I don't think that is fair. It is hard times for
:29:00. > :29:04.most of us, as pay and living standards are squeezed ever tighter.