:00:19. > :00:23.The killing of two police officers in Manchester has highlighted the
:00:24. > :00:30.problems of violent crime. These violent groups seek to maintain
:00:30. > :00:37.fear. So in the fight against organised crime, the authorities
:00:37. > :00:44.are making deals with some of the country's most serious criminals.
:00:44. > :00:49.Conspiracy to rob, not in merger charge -- and a murder charge of
:00:49. > :00:56.stock even those involved in murder are getting their prison sentences
:00:56. > :01:03.slashed by 25 years. But relying on evidence from criminals has gone
:01:03. > :01:08.wrong in the past for. There should be no countenancing prosecutions
:01:08. > :01:15.based solely on supergrasses. why should we trust the supergrass
:01:15. > :01:25.today? It will devour its own to survive, and that is what they do.
:01:25. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:41.A sunny afternoon on the seafront at South Shields, an unlikely
:01:41. > :01:47.setting for a gangland killing. But a crime was about to take place
:01:47. > :01:53.that would introduce a new generation of supergrasses. Local
:01:53. > :01:57.drug dealer Noddy Rice was waiting for his supplier, Alan Foster.
:01:57. > :02:03.said, you do not want to get involved with him, there is
:02:03. > :02:08.something about him I do not like. He said, or why, he is a great lad?
:02:08. > :02:15.But not you rice and Alan Foster had fallen out. Police are not
:02:15. > :02:25.certain whether it was over drugs, money, or a girlfriend. Whatever it
:02:25. > :02:27.
:02:27. > :02:36.was, there was a score to settle. family friend knocked on the door
:02:36. > :02:44.and said, have you heard, Noddy has been shot. Then his best friend
:02:44. > :02:49.phoned and said, he's dead. The next thing I remember, I must have
:02:49. > :02:59.screamed and collapsed on the floor. The killers burnt out the car and
:02:59. > :03:03.
:03:03. > :03:09.dumped it close to the scene. They had an van close by. The driver
:03:09. > :03:14.thought it was a drug deal and had no idea it would be a murder. The
:03:15. > :03:20.drive it was Derek Blackburn. We cannot show his face. What happened
:03:20. > :03:25.yesterday bear the hallmarks of a gangland killing. Direct
:03:25. > :03:30.Blackburn's vehicle was traced and he was arrested. To start with, he
:03:30. > :03:34.was reluctant to help the murder inquiry. He initially denied any
:03:34. > :03:38.involvement in the offence and was about to be released from police
:03:38. > :03:46.custody when he indicated that subject is speaking to his partner,
:03:46. > :03:51.he may be in a position to assist the police and prosecution.
:03:51. > :03:55.prosecutor was able to offer a pioneering deal. He used recently
:03:55. > :04:01.introduced supergrass laws and became one of the country's leading
:04:01. > :04:08.experts in them. The getaway driver, Derek Blackburn, would be one of
:04:08. > :04:11.the first criminals in the country to benefit. Since the 2006, the
:04:11. > :04:15.Crown Prosecution Service has been allowed to offer a straightforward
:04:15. > :04:20.contracts to criminals like Blackburn. If they give evidence in
:04:20. > :04:25.court against serious offenders, they will be rewarded with a
:04:25. > :04:29.reduced jail sentence or even a promise they will not be prosecuted.
:04:29. > :04:33.The most important thing is we require them to tell the truth. The
:04:33. > :04:37.point about that is that if at any point we can demonstrate they have
:04:37. > :04:41.not told the truth, we have the possibility that we can tear up the
:04:41. > :04:47.written agreement, go back and perhaps prosecute them for perjury
:04:47. > :04:51.and perverting the course of justice. Supergrasses, or assisting
:04:51. > :04:59.offenders, are supposed to be minor criminals who have been encouraged
:04:59. > :05:06.to testify against more serious criminals. We always look at
:05:06. > :05:11.support and its to the key events - - subordinates. For example,
:05:11. > :05:16.somebody who may have driven away a car from an offence as opposed to
:05:16. > :05:22.the person struck the fatal blow. Prosecutors in South Shields had
:05:22. > :05:26.signed up a textbook example of the supergrass laws, the getaway driver,
:05:26. > :05:31.Derek Blackburn. Alan Foster fled the country and has never been
:05:31. > :05:37.caught, but his accomplice was put on trial, so Blackburn did give
:05:37. > :05:42.evidence against him. When Stephen Evans heard the supergrass evidence
:05:42. > :05:51.in court, he immediately changed his plea to guilty of murder and
:05:51. > :06:01.was sentenced to life. -- Bevans. Supergrass Blackburn did well out
:06:01. > :06:09.of the deal. His jail sentence was much reduced. He was looking at 12
:06:09. > :06:13.years. Compared to? Eventually, he got two-and-a-half. Bringing one of
:06:13. > :06:17.Mr Rice's killers to justice was clearly in the public interest, but
:06:17. > :06:21.the people who most needed to know that justice had been done with his
:06:21. > :06:27.family. They had to come to terms with one of those involved getting
:06:27. > :06:31.off lightly. It was hard at first, because I am thinking, has this man
:06:31. > :06:36.took them to where they have taken up and he has murdered my brother
:06:36. > :06:40.and got away with it, but when we went to court I thought, he is
:06:40. > :06:47.definitely telling the truth. you think the authorities were
:06:47. > :06:51.right to use him? In cases like this, yes, definitely. New figures
:06:51. > :06:58.released today should the authorities are using them more and
:06:58. > :07:01.more. Since a 2006 there has been 175 supergrass deals. The courts
:07:01. > :07:07.have said only in exceptional cases will prison sentences be cut by
:07:07. > :07:13.more than two-thirds. But Panorama has traced and analysed 49
:07:13. > :07:19.supergrass cases. In 21 of them, the supergrass's sentence was cut
:07:19. > :07:25.by more than two-thirds, and 13 at supergrass witnesses had a jail
:07:25. > :07:29.term slashed by more than 80%. the one hand the public expects,
:07:29. > :07:34.and it is the business of the Crown Prosecution Service, to prosecute
:07:34. > :07:38.people who have committed criminal offences. On the other hand,
:07:38. > :07:41.parliament have said we should consider using witnesses who are
:07:41. > :07:45.perhaps not the most admirable citizens, because they may have
:07:45. > :07:51.committed offences themselves, to bring other more serious criminals
:07:51. > :07:58.to justice. The price of solving the most serious crimes can
:07:58. > :08:04.sometimes be even higher. 11-year- old Rhys Jones was shot dead by a
:08:04. > :08:08.teenager on a bike early yesterday evening. In a handful of cases,
:08:09. > :08:12.seven since the new laws came in, supergrasses have been rewarded
:08:12. > :08:16.with a total immunity from prosecution. Someone knows who has
:08:16. > :08:21.done it. I know people are frightened but they have got to
:08:21. > :08:25.think that they cannot leave this killer out there. Police got an
:08:25. > :08:31.anonymous tip-off telling them who had shot Rees Jones, but people
:08:31. > :08:36.were too frightened to come forward with hard evidence. Then there was
:08:36. > :08:42.a breakthrough. Detectives found the gun used to kill him at the
:08:42. > :08:47.home of the 16-year-old gang member. Boy A X, as he became known, told
:08:47. > :08:52.the police he had been given a gun to hide by this teenager, Sean
:08:52. > :08:56.Mercer, within half-an-hour of the murder. For the first time there
:08:56. > :09:00.was a chance of catching the killer, but to do that prosecutors had to
:09:00. > :09:07.make a deal with the gang member involved in covering up a child's
:09:07. > :09:13.murder. When we became aware of a youth who could potentially be a
:09:13. > :09:17.very valuable witness by putting a murder weapon in the hand of Sean
:09:17. > :09:21.Mercer, it was obvious that we had to give serious consideration as to
:09:22. > :09:28.whether it was in interest of justice to approach him more as a
:09:28. > :09:35.witness and as a possible defendant. The CPS decided to use a supergrass
:09:35. > :09:39.deal to charge all Mercer with murder. -- Sean Mercer. To convict
:09:39. > :09:44.him, they were prepared to go as far as the new law allowed, to
:09:44. > :09:48.offer not just a sentence reduction but total immunity from prosecution.
:09:48. > :09:52.We looked at the other options and we decided that the issue of an
:09:52. > :10:02.immunity notice would enable us to manage the witness and to control
:10:02. > :10:12.the witness better than the other options. We made absolutely clear
:10:12. > :10:13.
:10:13. > :10:16.to beware ex what he had to do to secure immunity -- Boy X. As a
:10:16. > :10:21.result of this evidence, up Sean Mercer was found guilty of murder
:10:21. > :10:26.and sentenced to life. Supergrass evidence had been a crucial but
:10:27. > :10:30.this time, it came at a high price: Total immunity from prosecution.
:10:30. > :10:35.But even the murdered boy's parents thought the supergrass deal was
:10:35. > :10:41.good. I think it was, to secure the conviction of the main offenders
:10:41. > :10:44.was the priority and the information he gave to the police
:10:44. > :10:51.was a good trade-off, so to speak. Was it difficult for you to accept
:10:51. > :10:54.the idea of him not been punished? No. If he had played a bigger role,
:10:54. > :10:58.perhaps I would have been more worried about the fact he's walking
:10:58. > :11:05.away Scot free, but what he actually did was minimal to an
:11:05. > :11:12.extent. Supergrasses have a controversial history. Deals were
:11:12. > :11:16.often done with the police and sometimes hidden. It led to trouble.
:11:16. > :11:21.In the 1970s there was an epidemic of armed robberies in London. It
:11:21. > :11:26.was clear it up using supergrasses. There is no doubt at all that this
:11:26. > :11:34.is fundamentally a good system. the supergrasses what of the
:11:34. > :11:40.notorious villains, keen to stay out of jail. To get myself off, but
:11:40. > :11:45.someone in it. But some deals were corrupt. Supergrasses begin crooked
:11:45. > :11:49.witnesses lied in court in return for favours from the police. They
:11:49. > :11:53.are just using the police to stay out of prison and the police are
:11:53. > :11:57.using these supergrasses to further their own careers are. Case after
:11:57. > :12:01.case collapsed. The work of leading defence lawyers, like Michael
:12:01. > :12:06.Mansfield, led to the use of supergrass evidence being totally
:12:06. > :12:11.discredited. The thing that used to happen in the 1980s, and is
:12:11. > :12:16.happening right now, that yes, these people will know about crime,
:12:16. > :12:20.but in order to in vagal their way into their favours, they dress it
:12:20. > :12:25.up. They dress it up in the way that they put people at the scene
:12:25. > :12:33.who were not there, even though they were. And as course, they have
:12:33. > :12:37.access to grind -- axes. They have been better to settled. That is why
:12:37. > :12:45.I think there should be no countenancing prosecutions based
:12:45. > :12:51.solely on supergrasses. Today's supergrasses are no different.
:12:51. > :12:56.Relying on evidence is as risky as ever. What are you hoping to
:12:56. > :13:03.achieve by speaking to us today? Stewart is charged with murder but
:13:03. > :13:08.he has found a way out by becoming a supergrass. Hopefully me actually
:13:08. > :13:14.being sentenced for conspiracy to rob and not a murder charge. No
:13:14. > :13:24.murder charge. Sandy Stewart was charged with a particularly brutal
:13:24. > :13:25.
:13:25. > :13:30.murder. -- Sonny. They beat Mr Simpson ferociously... The gang had
:13:30. > :13:36.been looking for money. When they could not find it, they tortured
:13:36. > :13:41.and beat Eddy Sims into death. Police had CCTV of the gang from
:13:41. > :13:45.Leeds arriving in a white van -- Teddy Simpson. Mr Stewart admitted
:13:45. > :13:51.he helped to recruit them but he denied going anywhere near the
:13:51. > :13:53.victim's house themselves. thought they would threaten him. Do
:13:53. > :14:00.you Know What I Mean? I did not believe there was serious harm
:14:00. > :14:05.going to come to this guy. But the robbery ended in murder. Debt, or
:14:05. > :14:14.dining, Mr Simpson was taking from his home and his body was dumped in
:14:14. > :14:17.woodland -- dead or dying. Mr Stewart admitted he had been in
:14:17. > :14:22.touch with a gang through about. Police eventually charged seven men
:14:22. > :14:25.with murder, including Mr Stewart, but when Mr Stewart signed a
:14:25. > :14:29.supergrass contract the Crown Prosecution Service reduced his
:14:29. > :14:35.murder charge to manslaughter. They accepted his story that he had had
:14:35. > :14:39.no idea the robbery would end in violence. If a number of men agreed
:14:39. > :14:44.to carry out a violent robbery and organise a violent robbery and the
:14:44. > :14:48.victim dies as a consequence of the violence, then they are guilty of
:14:48. > :14:54.murder, and there is no room for manslaughter in that situation.
:14:54. > :15:00.What was going on was a fiction effectively. A bogus charge which
:15:00. > :15:06.was created for Sandy Stewart's benefit. We need to get back to
:15:06. > :15:11.these papers, keep it simple. from the start, there were doubts
:15:11. > :15:21.about Mr Stewart's account. In court he insisted only three men
:15:21. > :15:28.
:15:28. > :15:33.had attacked Mr Simpson, two of But an eyewitness said something
:15:33. > :15:38.different. Gary cop card had called at the house during a robbery. He
:15:38. > :15:45.had also been savagely beaten. He told police that there might have
:15:45. > :15:50.been a 4th gang member. The three he could describe what all black.
:15:50. > :16:00.Definitely all three or four of them were Jamaican. I do not know
:16:00. > :16:05.
:16:05. > :16:11.if there were three or four. All of those man were dark, Afro-Caribbean.
:16:12. > :16:17.They were all Jamaican fellows. at first, Sonny Stuart had also
:16:17. > :16:21.told police that three black men were involved. Just the threat of
:16:21. > :16:26.three big black guys going in with a replica gun, not knowing it was a
:16:26. > :16:30.replica, slapping them about a bit, sitting them down, saying why is
:16:30. > :16:38.the money? I was under the impression that they would say, yes,
:16:38. > :16:42.here it is. What did you expect them to do? Three black guys, you
:16:42. > :16:46.know what I mean? Just guys from out of town. Why would they think
:16:46. > :16:53.they were black? Probably the masks. I think I just said through black
:16:53. > :16:58.guys because of the statements that I had been reading. It is not easy,
:16:58. > :17:01.is it? It is clear on watching that interview that he slipped, and
:17:01. > :17:08.realised that he had slipped because he laughed nervously. He
:17:08. > :17:17.corrected himself. His final version was that there were two
:17:17. > :17:21.black men and one white man, who were to attack Mr Simpson. Just the
:17:21. > :17:26.three men identified by Sonny were convicted of attacking and killing
:17:26. > :17:33.Teddy Simpson. There was plenty of other evidence that they were at
:17:33. > :17:39.the murder scene. But Sonny was the crucial witness against the other
:17:39. > :17:48.defendants. Including this man, his friend Anthony Davies. They were
:17:48. > :17:52.like Gazans, just like Cousins, you know? -- cousins. If you saw
:17:52. > :17:56.Anthony, Sonny was not far away. They were drug dealers. On a night
:17:57. > :18:03.of the murder, Sonny said they were together. He said they had both
:18:03. > :18:08.played a part in the robbery, but Anthony was always in charge. Even
:18:08. > :18:11.using Sonny's telephone to give the orders. All this time, Anthony has
:18:11. > :18:15.got my telephone because he is directing the matters. We are
:18:15. > :18:22.talking about my telephone that he is the one who has got it. Are you
:18:22. > :18:32.with me? At a second trial, four more man were found guilty of
:18:32. > :18:38.robbery or murder. -- Nairn. Anthony was sentenced to a minimum
:18:38. > :18:45.of 35 years, largely on Sonny's evidence. He used his get out of
:18:45. > :18:48.jail free card. That is what Sonny did. The system bought into it.
:18:48. > :18:53.Sonny could have been sentenced to 30 years. He got to just seven. He
:18:53. > :18:57.has since been released. The judge told him that he had been lucky.
:18:57. > :19:01.But for his supergrass deal with the prosecution, he would have been
:19:01. > :19:07.convicted of murder. Pleading guilty to manslaughter, and
:19:07. > :19:11.conspiracy to rob, deflected the prosecution's view of the evidence.
:19:11. > :19:17.Sonny's evidence was backed up by the available evidence, the jury
:19:17. > :19:21.convicted at the Court of Appeal said that conviction was safe. It
:19:21. > :19:26.was not just some deal that was done for the sake of it. Anthony is
:19:26. > :19:30.locked up in a top-security prison. The Criminal Cases Review
:19:30. > :19:37.Commission has recently decided to investigate his conviction. Whether
:19:37. > :19:42.or not supergrass evidence can be relied on his once again an issue.
:19:42. > :19:48.If there has been a potential miscarriage of justice, and more
:19:48. > :19:51.over a violent murderer is now free, after spending a very short period
:19:51. > :19:57.in prison, it is very difficult to see what the public interest has
:19:57. > :20:02.been. In the past, supergrass cases gained a reputation for unravelling.
:20:02. > :20:08.But now we are told these new arrangements are safer.
:20:08. > :20:13.Supergrasses like Sonny are meant to sign formal agreements to tell
:20:13. > :20:20.the truth. It is that openness, that transparency, that attempts to
:20:20. > :20:29.keep everything above board that should be at the heart of each new
:20:29. > :20:32.supergrass prosecution. The new supergrass laws were
:20:32. > :20:38.brought in because the police and prosecutors believed they were
:20:38. > :20:43.losing the fight against organised crime. Whether that threat is
:20:43. > :20:53.growing is difficult to prove. But every city has its violent
:20:53. > :20:56.
:20:56. > :20:59.Newcastle-upon-Tyne is no exception. We have evidence that the gunman
:20:59. > :21:05.lay in wait to kill Mr Knight and we cannot rule out the possibility
:21:05. > :21:10.that it was as a result of a feud. Gangster Friday night was shot dead
:21:10. > :21:15.on his mother's doorstep. -- and Mr Knight. Police suspected that he
:21:16. > :21:24.had been killed by rivals. The chief suspect was John Sayers, the
:21:24. > :21:28.leading member of a well-known Tyneside crime family. My father,
:21:28. > :21:35.my cousins, they have all been in prison. My father got shot. My
:21:35. > :21:42.younger brother Michael got shot six times. He survived. In 1990, I
:21:42. > :21:48.got 15 years for conspiracy to rob. In 2007, I got four years for tax
:21:48. > :21:54.evasion. In between that, I have had two or three years on remand
:21:54. > :21:59.for different offences. John Sayers and some of his associates were
:21:59. > :22:09.charged with the murder of Mr Knight. They said that I had
:22:09. > :22:14.organised it. How? By planning it. The murder trial was moved to Leeds
:22:14. > :22:20.and it high-security. Armed police brought the defendants to court.
:22:20. > :22:24.Surveillance teams filled everyone arriving. Despite the huge effort,
:22:24. > :22:28.there was still a serious security breach. One of the jurors was
:22:28. > :22:33.telephoned and threatened. Police investigated but could not link it
:22:33. > :22:39.to anyone so the trial carried on. Three men were convicted of
:22:40. > :22:45.manslaughter. But not John Sayers. John Sayers was acquitted of all
:22:45. > :22:50.the charges after the three-month trial at Leeds Crown Court.
:22:50. > :22:54.Although he was now a free man, he believed he would always be a
:22:54. > :23:01.police target. I knew they would leave us alone for a short while
:23:01. > :23:08.because they had been embarrassed. So I knew they would be coming back.
:23:08. > :23:14.I did not know when or where but I knew they would be back. Seven
:23:14. > :23:17.years later, events at the murder trial came back to haunt him. The
:23:17. > :23:22.supergrass came forward with dramatic new evidence that John
:23:22. > :23:27.Sayers had been behind the attempt to nobble the juror. This man,
:23:27. > :23:30.Errol Hay, was a Newcastle criminal and paid police informer. He claims
:23:30. > :23:37.that during a visit to the court he had been instructed to make the
:23:37. > :23:40.threatening telephone call. only day he was there was when
:23:40. > :23:45.everything was explained in open court as to what had happened the
:23:46. > :23:50.night before. That is when he learned about it. I knew he was an
:23:50. > :23:56.informer from years ago. I did not have anything to do with him.
:23:56. > :24:02.knew him? I knew him, yes. What was he like? A drug addict. A little
:24:02. > :24:10.weasel. Darrell Pace said he had been told what to do by John Sayers.
:24:10. > :24:14.-- Errol. He took police officers to this former mining visit near
:24:14. > :24:19.Newcastle and showed then the telephone box where he had made the
:24:19. > :24:22.call. The police knew this was the right phone box and they traced the
:24:23. > :24:29.threatening phone-call after it was made. This was the vital
:24:29. > :24:35.corroboration they needed before taking the word of a supergrass.
:24:35. > :24:38.we are not able to corroborate what they say, or if we cannot
:24:38. > :24:44.contradict what they say, then it is extremely likely that we will
:24:44. > :24:48.advance them as credible witnesses of truth. Following his success in
:24:48. > :24:57.the Noddy murder case, prosecutor Kingsley Highland now signed a
:24:57. > :25:00.supergrass contract with Errol and he was given an alias. John Sayers
:25:00. > :25:03.was charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. What
:25:03. > :25:09.would have been the personal consequences of it going all the
:25:09. > :25:13.way? Dying in jail. Entire case relied 101% on the supergrass
:25:13. > :25:19.telling the truth. This was a one witness case and he was either
:25:19. > :25:24.telling the truth or he was not. But some in the prosecution to
:25:24. > :25:27.already knew that he was lying. He had beefed up his story by telling
:25:27. > :25:34.the police that he had made not just one telephone call to the jury
:25:34. > :25:37.in Leeds, but two. Again he took them to the phone box that he said
:25:37. > :25:42.he had used. But this time when the police checked, there had been no
:25:42. > :25:45.telephone call. They could not find any record of anyone calling Leeds
:25:45. > :25:49.that night and it called his credibility into question. If he
:25:49. > :25:58.could not be believed about this one, why should he be believed
:25:58. > :26:03.about making that first threatening phone call? The CPS new but the
:26:03. > :26:07.defence did not that no such call to Leeds could have been made from
:26:07. > :26:11.any of 48 telephone boxes that were trolled and investigated within a
:26:11. > :26:13.three-mile radius. If I had had this material when I was cross-
:26:13. > :26:19.examining the supergrass over two of three days, I would have
:26:19. > :26:23.exploded him as a witness of truth. Yet it was denied to the defence.
:26:23. > :26:27.The jury nobbling case came to an abrupt end when the defence
:26:27. > :26:30.obtained the telephone records that showed that he was lying. They only
:26:30. > :26:35.got them late in the day from a police officer. They should have
:26:35. > :26:39.been handed over much earlier by the CPS. The judge was highly
:26:39. > :26:42.critical of the prosecution, saying there had been a deliberate,
:26:42. > :26:46.conscious decision to flout the rules. He then ordered that the
:26:46. > :26:51.trial should be stopped. The person who failed to disclose the key
:26:51. > :26:55.evidence revealing the supergrass had lied, was the senior prosecutor,
:26:55. > :27:03.Kingsley Highland. The CPS refused to allow him to answer questions
:27:03. > :27:07.about this himself. Would you categorise this as a gross failure?
:27:07. > :27:12.The material should have been disclosed and it was not and it led
:27:12. > :27:15.to the halting of the prosecution. That has been a very painful
:27:15. > :27:20.experience for everybody concerned and that case, together with one or
:27:20. > :27:23.two of the once, meant that we are now dealing with disclosure, with
:27:23. > :27:30.new systems in place, to make sure that this sort of thing never
:27:30. > :27:37.happens again. Errol died of cancer shortly after giving his evidence.
:27:37. > :27:42.His supergrass contract had -- to tell the truth turned out not to be
:27:42. > :27:47.worth the paper it was written on. It is too easy for anybody to go
:27:48. > :27:51.and tell lies without there being any fear of reprisal by the system.
:27:51. > :27:56.Once you are accepted as a supergrass, that is it. You can say
:27:57. > :28:00.whatever you want. Is it the point that the new system cannot change
:28:00. > :28:06.the nature of those defendants and we are exactly in the same place
:28:06. > :28:10.when this system was discredited? will say this to you. You have to
:28:10. > :28:13.make a decision in each individual case. We reject far more of these
:28:13. > :28:18.proposed agreements than we agree to. It is only when it is clear to
:28:18. > :28:22.us that we can put a win us forward in a way that will most benefit the
:28:22. > :28:28.public interest and convict serious criminals of very serious offences
:28:28. > :28:35.when we might not otherwise be able to. -- put a witness forward.
:28:35. > :28:38.Supergrass evidence is to buy a book to be ignored. So was the old
:28:38. > :28:43.generation, until they were discredited. -- supergrass evidence
:28:43. > :28:49.is too valuable to be ignored. Next week we investigate how