:00:12. > :00:17.Tonight on Panorama. One of British industry's darkest secrets revealed.
:00:17. > :00:21.There was work, then all of a sudden, nothing. It was not until
:00:21. > :00:26.the blacklist came out that I found out I was on it.
:00:26. > :00:32.A secret list, used by some of the UK's biggest construction companies
:00:32. > :00:36.that denied people work for years. To conspire together, to try to
:00:36. > :00:40.drive these people out of the industry is outrageous. It should be
:00:40. > :00:45.the subject of punishment. We have the first television
:00:45. > :00:51.interview with the woman who helped to run the list - tending the files
:00:51. > :00:55.that destroyed lives. A lot of these people who didn't
:00:55. > :01:01.work for years, they were their own worst enemies.
:01:01. > :01:05.And we talk to those who claimed blacklisting is still going on. That
:01:05. > :01:11.if you find yourself marked out, you will never work again.
:01:11. > :01:16.There were times we ran out of food. The cupboards were empty. The Mrs,
:01:16. > :01:23.she was balling her eyes out. No money to pick the kids up from
:01:23. > :01:33.school and she was screaming at me, " What have you done? What have you
:01:33. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :01:48.multibillion pound building industry has been hiding a dark secret. A
:01:48. > :01:55.covert organisation that built up confidential files on thousands of
:01:55. > :02:00.workers. What those files amounted to was a
:02:00. > :02:07.blacklist, with the power to deny people work and destroy livelihoods.
:02:07. > :02:12.Workers were not told that they were on the list. They just saw their
:02:12. > :02:16.work stop. You could not beat the blacklist. It
:02:16. > :02:21.was an overpowering thing, it decided whether you started work on
:02:21. > :02:27.a site, on a job, anywhere. People think you cannot do your job.
:02:27. > :02:32.That you are useless, but that is not the case. It is the case that
:02:32. > :02:36.your national insurance number has been put on a secret database.
:02:36. > :02:41.The list was paid for by some of the biggest names in the construction
:02:41. > :02:45.industry. It involves some of Europe's largest projects. The
:02:45. > :02:49.Olympic site, the London Underground, the Jubilee Line
:02:49. > :02:54.extension, the Dome and Portcullis House. All money paid for with
:02:54. > :03:01.public money. The files were kept in a small
:03:01. > :03:10.office in the West Midlands. Ian Kerr, a former art teacher, and
:03:10. > :03:18.his wife, Mary, were the consultant Consulting association that compiled
:03:18. > :03:22.and held the blacklist. Ian Kerr died at the end of last year. His
:03:22. > :03:25.wife Mary has now agreed to speak about the undercover vetting
:03:25. > :03:33.service. She has asked we do not show her face.
:03:33. > :03:37.What was your role for the Consultanting Association? I was the
:03:37. > :03:45.book-keeper for several years. I did the clerical things, sending out
:03:45. > :03:49.invoices. Piecing male r mail out. I checked the faxes of names.
:03:49. > :03:53.It is reasonable to say that you are the person that knowsth most about
:03:54. > :04:02.what was going on -- knows the most about what was going on there?
:04:02. > :04:10.the only person alive who knows the truth.
:04:10. > :04:16.The list emerged out of the disputes of the 197 #0s, and the 1980s.
:04:16. > :04:23.construction industry were caught out bad ly 1970s. As a result of
:04:23. > :04:27.that, they were determined to weed out any trouble makers.
:04:27. > :04:34.The construction companies had always denied the existence of the
:04:34. > :04:39.list. Yet 43 companies subscribed to, including Skanska, Balfour
:04:39. > :04:49.Beatty and Sir Robert McAlpine. 3,200 workers were on the list. Only
:04:49. > :04:51.
:04:51. > :04:56.now are many of their files coming to light.
:04:56. > :05:00.So this is the first time that I have had a chance to see the files.
:05:00. > :05:06.What is striking, immediately, it is the level of detail that is
:05:06. > :05:11.contained within here. This is a lot more than a mere
:05:11. > :05:15.blacklist. This is detail about people's lives, about the work that
:05:15. > :05:20.they were doing. This case for example it describes him as being
:05:20. > :05:26.involved in union activity. You sort of expect that but then says he is a
:05:26. > :05:32.bit of a sheep. The next file has years of information. Decades. It
:05:32. > :05:37.goes back to 1982. Other files have registration plates, details of
:05:37. > :05:45.relationships. This was not just a list. This was a file that covered
:05:45. > :05:52.people's lives. Many had no idea that they were on
:05:52. > :05:58.the list. All they had was suspicion and years without work.
:05:58. > :06:03.I work in the electrical contracting industry. I found out I was
:06:03. > :06:09.blacklisted, not just with one company but withle whoet industry.
:06:09. > :06:15.That was devastating. I'm a joiner, and a carpenter. I found out I was
:06:15. > :06:25.on the blacklist. I have been unemployed for long spells. I'm an
:06:25. > :06:28.
:06:28. > :06:33.electrician, I always had work, then all of a sudden, nothing.
:06:33. > :06:38.What was it like when you saw your file and saw what was within it?
:06:38. > :06:45.First I was a bit shocked to find out I was on it. I was a bit angry.
:06:45. > :06:51.Once I got the file and I read why I had been blacklisted, then I was
:06:51. > :06:57.angry and shocked. It was like, where have they got this from? It
:06:57. > :07:02.was nonsense. According to his file, Howard had
:07:02. > :07:10.been involved in disputes while working on the extension to the
:07:10. > :07:15.London Underground Jubilee Line. A project notorious for its problems.
:07:15. > :07:21.As I looked down I saw the first entry as to why I had been put on
:07:21. > :07:24.it. It was for working on the Jubilee Line. It is a job I have
:07:24. > :07:30.never worked on. Everything about that file that
:07:30. > :07:34.destroyed your life was there in that one page? Yeah, just that one
:07:34. > :07:39.page, basically. My date of birth, the national insurance number and
:07:39. > :07:45.that line off the Jubilee Line that basically stopped me working for the
:07:45. > :07:50.past 15 years. Roy was blacklisted after being'
:07:50. > :07:53.elected the health and safety steward on a site. He was lible
:07:53. > :07:58.libled independent. Even accused of benefit fraud.
:07:58. > :08:02.I looked at the opening pages of your file. It is very personal. It
:08:02. > :08:08.talks about you as being a sheep, being independent. This is
:08:08. > :08:14.information that is being circulating about you.
:08:14. > :08:19.I was mortified. I am a reasonable person by nature, but I found myself
:08:19. > :08:24.thinking that they had been colluding against me.
:08:24. > :08:29.And the other thing it makes reference to, is that I was signing
:08:29. > :08:38.on while I was working, that I was claiming unemployment benefit back
:08:38. > :08:44.then, but that is totally untrue. It is unsob Stan Secretary of Stated
:08:44. > :08:47.allegations, again, it makes you realise it is being passed around
:08:48. > :08:51.over a 14-year period amongst companies.
:08:51. > :08:56.Mary Kerr still believes that the list was justified.
:08:56. > :09:01.Unfortunately, there are people in this life who do cause trouble. I
:09:01. > :09:05.can't say whether every person on that list caused genuine trouble but
:09:05. > :09:12.certainly I know some of them would have.
:09:12. > :09:17.What about the idea of placing information on a secret list that
:09:17. > :09:20.was not checked for accuracy and not verified? How do you feel about
:09:20. > :09:25.that? Well it should have been accurate.
:09:26. > :09:33.But nobody was checking, were they? Well, who would check? The
:09:33. > :09:38.information came from the companies. Frank Matthews had a successful
:09:38. > :09:44.South career as an electrician and site manager. All that was destroyed
:09:44. > :09:50.when he was blacklisted. You feel the whole world is against
:09:50. > :09:55.you. Who can you tell? You can tell your wife and immediate family, but
:09:55. > :10:02.I had good friends. When they found out, they thought, there was no
:10:02. > :10:10.smoke without fire. What had he been up to? If somebody tell as lie, how
:10:10. > :10:16.do you prove that negative? You can't do it.
:10:16. > :10:26.These people have affected your lives unbelievably so, for no
:10:26. > :10:27.
:10:27. > :10:34.reason. They need locking up. So how did this covert and unlawful
:10:34. > :10:41.database operate? Well construction companies had to be invited to join
:10:41. > :10:47.by an existing member. Each then paid the Consulting
:10:47. > :10:51.Association, an annual subscription fee for the service and up to �2. 20
:10:51. > :10:55.for each name that was checked against the list. There would be one
:10:55. > :10:58.main point of contact at each company, a senior executive from
:10:58. > :11:02.within human resources. They would feed in information about workers
:11:02. > :11:12.that they considered to be trouble makers. That information would be
:11:12. > :11:17.shared across the industry. The worker would never know.
:11:17. > :11:23.They sent through lists of names to the Consulting Association of
:11:23. > :11:31.everyone that they were considering employing on the site. To see if
:11:31. > :11:39.past details of trouble was recorded on a card.
:11:39. > :11:44.How many names are they pushing through? Thousands.
:11:44. > :11:49.The Kerrs, checked ame names against card files held by Consulting
:11:49. > :11:55.Association. If a match was found, the company was alerted.
:11:55. > :12:01.If you're on this list, what does that mean? If you're on the list
:12:01. > :12:08.then the HR director or manager of the construction company was
:12:08. > :12:15.informed by Ian that there were details known about this person. Ian
:12:15. > :12:19.read out the information that was held, exactly as it had been record
:12:19. > :12:25.recorded and the HR director or manager would decide whether to
:12:25. > :12:30.employ or not. It was never up to Ian whether these
:12:30. > :12:34.people were given work or not. All Ian did was pass on the information
:12:34. > :12:38.that had been put in by other companies.
:12:38. > :12:45.And what sort of companies are we talking about? Large construction
:12:46. > :12:55.companies. Name a few for us.
:12:56. > :12:56.
:12:56. > :12:59.Laing, Sir Robert McAlpine, AMEC, C B & I. Kier.
:12:59. > :13:05.These companies, this was meant to be secretive from the beginning,
:13:05. > :13:09.wasn't it? Oh, yes. Over a four-year period, Skanska
:13:09. > :13:15.vetted 66,000 names on projects like the Ministry of Defence building in
:13:15. > :13:24.Whitehall. Balfour Beatty put around 15,000 name as year through the
:13:24. > :13:30.database. Sir Robert McAlpine spent �220,000 checking workers on sites,
:13:30. > :13:33.including the Dome. Though it insists it never operated the
:13:34. > :13:39.blacklist but simply this was to protect the company against unlawful
:13:39. > :13:44.or dangerous behaviour. From two offices in Droitwich, you
:13:44. > :13:47.were literally casting your eye over hundreds of workers for some of the
:13:47. > :13:51.biggest projects in this country? Yeah, I'll give you that, it is
:13:51. > :13:56.true. The people that built the Dome, they
:13:56. > :14:01.went through your office? They did. A lot of them weren't even builders.
:14:01. > :14:08.They put through acrobats, dancers, entertainers, there were hundreds of
:14:08. > :14:14.them. Anyone who may disrupt the smooth
:14:14. > :14:17.running of a site, even animal rights activists and
:14:17. > :14:23.environmentalists, appeared in the files with some intelligence coming
:14:23. > :14:27.from police and security contacts. Ian Kerr added further detail on
:14:27. > :14:34.individuals, taken from reports of union meetings and industrial
:14:34. > :14:38.tribunals. It came from the left-wing,
:14:38. > :14:42.anarchist press. Ian would read all of those magazines and newspapers
:14:42. > :14:47.and cutting out anything that looked as if it were something that a
:14:47. > :14:53.company may be interested in. That was he spent all of his day doing,
:14:53. > :14:57.reading these papers. The Commons Select Committee on
:14:57. > :15:04.Scottish Affairs investigate investigated blacklisting earlier in
:15:04. > :15:08.the year. It discovered that many of those targeted by lists had raised
:15:08. > :15:14.concerns about unsafe working practises.
:15:14. > :15:20.What was genuine anxieties but health and safety matters, after
:15:20. > :15:22.all, it was their lives or health at risk, they were penalised for
:15:22. > :15:28.protecting themselves and their families. This was about money and
:15:28. > :15:37.profit. Somebody who was interested in health and safety could delay the
:15:37. > :15:42.job or incur extra costs. Frank Matthews was working for the
:15:42. > :15:47.Balfour Beatty group in 2,000. He was sacked after being caught up in
:15:47. > :15:51.a dispute over unsafe conditions at a pharmaceutical plant in Kent. The
:15:51. > :15:55.site became water-logged. In the opinion of the electricians on site
:15:55. > :16:01.it became a safety hazard. The site was flooded. We did not
:16:01. > :16:07.want to work in the rain in the wet. We had nowhere to dry our clothes,
:16:07. > :16:12.so they decided to sack everybody. Frank took his employer to an
:16:12. > :16:17.industrial tribunal and won his case for unfair dismissal. For this he
:16:17. > :16:21.was blacklisted. They had employed me for 15 years,
:16:21. > :16:25.giving full responsibility for managing sites, jobs, responsible
:16:25. > :16:30.for millions of pounds. It did not add up.
:16:30. > :16:35.Then a trouble maker? No, I'm never a trouble maker.
:16:35. > :16:40.The blacklist filtered the workforce of an industry for 16 years. How did
:16:40. > :16:47.it remain secret? Well, chances were missed. In 2006, a whistleblower
:16:47. > :16:51.handed a dossier of evidence to the Unite union. In 2007, the same
:16:51. > :16:56.whistleblower gave evidence to the old department of Trade and
:16:56. > :17:00.Industry. People were told but neither did anything about it. The
:17:00. > :17:04.DTI has gone are but the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills,
:17:04. > :17:08.which replaced it, said there was not enough evidence to act on. The
:17:08. > :17:11.union agreed but said that lessons had been learned.
:17:11. > :17:16.I don't have the power to turn the clock back. We have changed our
:17:16. > :17:20.reporting procedures. There is not a single official in the union that is
:17:20. > :17:26.not aware that if the blacklist flag is raised, there must be immediate
:17:26. > :17:31.action taken. In fact, the unions face more
:17:31. > :17:36.serious allegations. That some union officials provided
:17:36. > :17:45.names and information for the list. When Howard Nolan received his file,
:17:45. > :17:50.he found the entry that read his career that said: Note but do not
:17:50. > :17:55.divulge. Resulting from a liaison between the union, the contractor
:17:55. > :18:00.and the managing ate. The are there to help us out. This
:18:00. > :18:05.is why I think we need an inquiry into this, to find out who is
:18:05. > :18:10.involved. To get these people, if they are part of the union, and they
:18:10. > :18:15.are union reps, that they have to leave the union.
:18:15. > :18:19.Are you surprised to see it there? It is individuals, isn't it?
:18:19. > :18:23.Surprised, I think it has gone on for a while, that. Surprise, when
:18:23. > :18:27.you see it in black and white, how it is written there.
:18:28. > :18:31.The union, Unite, insists that there is not information on the files to
:18:31. > :18:37.identify any union officials involved in passing names to the
:18:37. > :18:42.list. There is a concern in my mind, and
:18:42. > :18:46.in the union's mind about collusion. We have said and my General
:18:46. > :18:50.Secretary has committed to an absolute investigation and
:18:50. > :18:55.appropriate action against anyone that we can find that is complicit
:18:55. > :19:04.in blacklisting. The list was finally exposed in
:19:04. > :19:08.2009. The Consulting Association was raided. The Information
:19:08. > :19:15.Commissioner's office, acted only after the list was revealed in a
:19:15. > :19:19.national newspaper. Evenian acre was convicted under the Communications
:19:19. > :19:22.Data Bill, but no action taken against the company, closest to the
:19:22. > :19:26.company consulting Association, Sir Robert McAlpine.
:19:27. > :19:33.What Can say is that the person who breached the law, who committed the
:19:33. > :19:36.criminal offence was Ian acre, not McAlpine it was Ian Kerr that we
:19:36. > :19:41.prosecuted. He was fined by the court.
:19:41. > :19:45.It looked like you got the wrong man. A small fish when all of these
:19:45. > :19:50.big companies were behind them and they were never punished.
:19:50. > :19:55.We went for the person breaching the Communications Data Bill.
:19:55. > :19:58.But the Consulting Association was a nonprofit-making trade association,
:19:58. > :20:02.funded by the construction companies. At the time of the raid,
:20:02. > :20:10.the chairman of the covert organisation was David Cochrane. He
:20:10. > :20:16.was also head of human resources for Sir Robert McAlpine.
:20:16. > :20:19.They didn't want the company name to come out. They advised Ian to take
:20:19. > :20:25.all the blame, if you don't you won't get support from the
:20:25. > :20:30.companies. It would abbombshell in the industry.
:20:30. > :20:35.Should he have been the fall guy? Absolutely not. He was an employee.
:20:35. > :20:41.What is certain is that when Ian Kerr was fined �5,000, he did not
:20:41. > :20:44.pay the fine. The deal was if McAlpine's name did
:20:45. > :20:49.not come out in court that they would pay at the end.
:20:49. > :20:53.How did they pay? They were not allowed to send Ian the money. It
:20:53. > :21:00.would have gotten them into a lot of trouble.
:21:00. > :21:08.So the invoice had to be sent for, I think it was service provided, or
:21:08. > :21:15.words to that effect. So a fake invoice? Yes. It was just
:21:16. > :21:19.on plain paper from our eldest daughter.
:21:19. > :21:25.Ian Kerr was asked to return his contract of employment, it had been
:21:25. > :21:29.signed by Cullum McAlpine. As a director of the construction
:21:29. > :21:35.giant, he had been involved in setting up the Consulting
:21:35. > :21:39.Association. Mr McAlpine was quizzed by the
:21:39. > :21:43.unusual financial arrangement while giving evidence to the Commons
:21:43. > :21:47.Select Committee on Scottish Affairs on blacklisting earlier in the year.
:21:47. > :21:54.Can I clarify whether or not you were aware there, why the two
:21:54. > :22:00.invoices for the fine and the legal costs to cover Mr Kerr's Crown Court
:22:00. > :22:06.case were paid to Mr Kerr's daughters? I didn't know that. I
:22:06. > :22:12.have been informed that was at Mr Kerr's request.
:22:12. > :22:16.OK. Liar!I don't want interruptions from the public gallery. We will
:22:16. > :22:20.have other witnesses. The instruction was to send an invoice
:22:20. > :22:25.from the daughters for services provided, were you aware of that?
:22:25. > :22:30.That was why the money was paid out. Sir Robert McAlpine told you he was
:22:30. > :22:33.hands off when it came to the running of the Consulting
:22:33. > :22:37.Association, what do you think? believe that I think it is
:22:37. > :22:41.impossible to have a situation where somebody involved in setting this
:22:41. > :22:46.up, did not also drive the policy forwards.
:22:46. > :22:50.So, Sir Robert McAlpine paid Ian Kerr's fine. The Information
:22:50. > :22:54.Commissioner's office issued 14 enforcement notices against some of
:22:54. > :22:58.the construction companies who subscribed to the list but not Sir
:22:58. > :23:03.Robert McAlpine. The companies themselves seemed to
:23:03. > :23:08.have gotten off Scot free. They were party to the list. They supplied
:23:08. > :23:13.data, they took the data out but they have never been punished.
:23:13. > :23:17.Do you have the powers to work on this? I'm not sure that anybody had
:23:17. > :23:22.the powers. Sir Robert McAlpine, Balfour Beatty
:23:22. > :23:24.and Skanska, say that robust procedures are in place to ensure
:23:25. > :23:29.full compliance with the Communications Data Bill. Balfour
:23:29. > :23:34.Beatty and Skanska have apologised for their involvement with the
:23:34. > :23:40.Consulting Association. So now we know about the list, where
:23:40. > :23:45.does that leave construction workers today? Well in 2010, new laws were
:23:45. > :23:51.introduced but the critics say that they are too weak as they don't make
:23:51. > :23:55.blacklisting a criminal offence. The Government thinks that they don't
:23:55. > :23:58.need toughening up as the problem itself has died away. The Commons
:23:58. > :24:07.Select Committee on Scottish Affairs is less certain. It announced a
:24:07. > :24:13.fresh inquiry into whether blacklisting is still going on.
:24:13. > :24:18.This concern is shared by the union, Unite. Well, there is evidence that
:24:18. > :24:22.blacklisting is a contemporary problem. Whilst I think it is
:24:22. > :24:27.unlikely that the industry would set up an organisation like the
:24:27. > :24:31.Consulting Association again, there is evidence that people are still
:24:31. > :24:35.active and busy vetting and comparing names to lists that they
:24:35. > :24:41.hold. This man, Frank Morris, believes
:24:41. > :24:45.that blacklisting is happening now. That he is a victim.
:24:46. > :24:53.My employment prospects have gone from very good, always in work, to
:24:53. > :24:59.zero, nearly overnight. In 2012, he was working for a
:24:59. > :25:04.subcontractor on the �15 billion London Crossrail link. Europe's
:25:04. > :25:09.largest construction project. Frank says within weeks of starting
:25:09. > :25:17.the work, he was identified as a union man and marked out.
:25:17. > :25:22.So he asked to back union safety rep.
:25:22. > :25:27.I said I would like to become a shop steward. It was not to cause
:25:27. > :25:32.problems but they could not sack a shop steward. I could keep working.
:25:32. > :25:37.But Frank says when he raised health and safety concerns, managers were
:25:37. > :25:43.so determined to remove him from the site that it terminated his worker's
:25:43. > :25:49.contract. Frank and 26 others lost their jobs. Panorama has tracked
:25:49. > :25:54.down a man who worked alongside of Frank on the site. He does not want
:25:54. > :25:59.to appear on camera but says he firmly believes that Frank was
:25:59. > :26:06.singled out as he was on a blacklist. He due believes that the
:26:06. > :26:10.contract was withdrawn to get rid of Frank. Since then, Frank has found
:26:10. > :26:14.it impossible to find work. I have not been able to get any job
:26:14. > :26:20.in the construction industry. Do you believe you are on the
:26:20. > :26:24.blacklist? Yeah. With no money coming in, there was
:26:24. > :26:30.difficulty in life. We had no money to pick the kids up
:26:30. > :26:35.from school. The Mrs Is crying her eyes out. Screaming at me, what have
:26:35. > :26:41.you done it breaks your family. Crossrail told us it denies what it
:26:41. > :26:46.says are unsubstantiated allegations made by Frank Morris. It said it had
:26:46. > :26:51.seen no evidence of blackdies listing of any kind with contractors
:26:51. > :26:55.involved in the Crossrail project. As Frank Morris is suing a claim for
:26:55. > :27:00.unfair dismissal, the companies involved say that they cannot
:27:00. > :27:06.comment further if blackdies listing is alive, why are not the
:27:06. > :27:10.authorities seeking it out? difficulty is not covering under
:27:10. > :27:16.ground operations. We need a power of audit, to just go in, check on a
:27:16. > :27:19.business, to ensure that they are complying with the law.
:27:19. > :27:24.The Information Commissioner's office has asked the government for
:27:24. > :27:30.additional powers but the change is not imminent. It is four years since
:27:30. > :27:36.the Consulting Association secret's blacklist was exposed but how much
:27:36. > :27:41.has change?ed 60% of the HR officers who put the names of workers on the
:27:41. > :27:46.list are in the same jobs, still no construction company has been
:27:46. > :27:53.punished. Do you regret? Absolutely I regret. I think it probably killed
:27:53. > :27:58.Ian. All of the stress from it. If anyone was kept out of work as a
:27:58. > :28:04.result of that list, I would be truly sorry.
:28:04. > :28:10.For the blacklisted workers, still no compensation for the livelihoods
:28:10. > :28:14.ruined, though a legal claim is underway. For many the struggle for
:28:14. > :28:20.works is going on. It will never two away. I have never
:28:20. > :28:24.26 years. I retire at 656789 so I have another 26 years of being
:28:24. > :28:30.blacklisted. Until something happens, it will carry on. But for
:28:30. > :28:32.now, no-one seems willing to take on an industry that the Government is
:28:32. > :28:37.relying on to drive economic recovery.