:00:00. > :00:07.This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find
:00:08. > :00:18.upsetting. I feel anger over these stillbirths.
:00:19. > :00:22.These are proper beautiful babies who should be alive. And if we can
:00:23. > :00:27.do something, then we should be doing it now.
:00:28. > :00:31.Britain has one of the highest levels of stillbirths in the
:00:32. > :00:37.developed world. Every day in the UK nine apparently
:00:38. > :00:42.healthy babies die in the womb. I was in a very bad place, thinking
:00:43. > :00:46.my baby is dead, how can I give birth to him. This is supposed to be
:00:47. > :00:51.a happy occasion. Tonight, on Panorama, we meet the doctors who
:00:52. > :00:56.think they can save thousands of babies. We have the right treatment.
:00:57. > :01:00.We have the right machinery to prevent many of the still bifrts
:01:01. > :01:03.that we have now. It is -- stillbirths that we have now. It is
:01:04. > :01:07.depressing we don't. They have been battling for years for the medical
:01:08. > :01:13.establishment to take notice. . We believe this is a game changer.
:01:14. > :01:18.We have saved over 500 stillbirths this year alone. That's ten a week.
:01:19. > :01:23.But there is a lot more to go. But others say it is too soon. The
:01:24. > :01:28.evidence just isn't there. If we have some great idea, if we
:01:29. > :01:32.have some great new technique it is more important that we then generate
:01:33. > :01:38.the evidence that will mean it is implemented. The NHS promotes
:01:39. > :01:41.preventative medicine. Live-saving interventions are not being rolled
:01:42. > :01:58.out with the momentum you might expect.
:01:59. > :02:09.More than 750,000 babies are born each year in the UK.
:02:10. > :02:16.For many of us, the greatest gift. The vast majority, like this little
:02:17. > :02:21.one, arrive without complication. But during pregnancy, one in every
:02:22. > :02:28.200 births encounter problems. Something that might not be detected
:02:29. > :02:37.by the midwife or the expectant mother until it's too late.
:02:38. > :02:42.This is where our kitchen area is going to be. Samantha hopes her
:02:43. > :02:48.consultant has caught her problem in time. No-one is spared in lottery of
:02:49. > :02:52.all of this - she is a nurse. Se is more than seven month -- she is more
:02:53. > :02:56.than seven months pregnant and moving house. Uncertainty hangs over
:02:57. > :03:00.everything. It has been stressful. We are having a baby and buying a
:03:01. > :03:05.house at the same time. Was that planned? It was not going to be the
:03:06. > :03:09.way it was. The baby has other ideas of when she will arrive, anyway. The
:03:10. > :03:14.problem doctors have detected is that Samantha's baby is not getting
:03:15. > :03:18.enough food and oxygen from her placenta. There's a chance her baby
:03:19. > :03:24.will not be coming home. And they saw me at 28 weeks. That is
:03:25. > :03:29.when it got scary. I asked, would I ever get to full term. Not a chance.
:03:30. > :03:33.Whereas they might have said it differently. I can ask and because I
:03:34. > :03:37.want to know the answers to the questions. It is the horrible
:03:38. > :03:41.thought if she has died in my womb that I would have to give birth to
:03:42. > :03:45.her. That is the horrible thought to give birth to a dead baby when you
:03:46. > :03:52.look forward to an alive baby that is so much wanted and planned for.
:03:53. > :03:58.Every year in the UK, over 3,000 babies die in their mother's womb.
:03:59. > :04:02.This year, the figure is down slightly for the first time in two
:04:03. > :04:07.decades. But experts in this programme say
:04:08. > :04:12.they could save around half of all stillborn babies.
:04:13. > :04:16.For the families involved, it is an intimate grief. Too painful to speak
:04:17. > :04:21.of. There are no memories of their child
:04:22. > :04:28.to mourn. But some find a way. At a peaceful
:04:29. > :04:36.village hall in Leicester, on a spring day.
:04:37. > :04:39.So, this is his little baby go that he went off to Nottingham in
:04:40. > :04:44.straight off from the hospital. I have kept it. I have never washed
:04:45. > :04:49.it. It is of coursely part of him. As you can -- of course, part of
:04:50. > :04:55.him. As you can see it is dirty where I kept cuddling it. They make
:04:56. > :05:01.memory boxes. Memories of children they never knew. There was a way to
:05:02. > :05:06.find to print the pictures. Who do you ask? You cannot go and print
:05:07. > :05:10.your picture like this. I did mine at ASDA. Like he is asleep. I didn't
:05:11. > :05:14.think it would offend anybody queueing around me. There are
:05:15. > :05:19.accounts of the final moments - they are heartbreaking. It was the night
:05:20. > :05:23.before. I thought something didn't feel right. I had a cold glass of
:05:24. > :05:28.Lucozade, like they say. I felt him move. I went to sleep happily. In
:05:29. > :05:32.the morning when I woke up on the Saturday, something didn't feel
:05:33. > :05:37.right in my heart. On the Thursday, I realised I hadn't
:05:38. > :05:45.felt anything - no movements at all, which was very, very unusual. Louise
:05:46. > :05:49.phoned me. I was at work. "I cannot feel the baby moving." I rushed
:05:50. > :05:54.home, panicking. We went straight to the hospital.
:05:55. > :05:59.They couldn't find the heart beat. First of all we saw a midwife who
:06:00. > :06:06.tried to sort of strap me up to listen to the heart beat externally.
:06:07. > :06:11.She couldn't... She didn't flap. She said, right, OK, let's get you
:06:12. > :06:15.scanned. And then I don't really remember
:06:16. > :06:20.very much. Then she went, I'll go and get the
:06:21. > :06:26.consultant. That is when the penny dropped that something serious is
:06:27. > :06:32.wrong. I didn't quite comprehend what the consultant said, so I had a
:06:33. > :06:37.bewildered look on my face. I had to wait a few minutes for it to sink
:06:38. > :06:44.in. Before that, you are so excited. You have so much hope. I was going
:06:45. > :06:50.to be a stay-at-home dad. My life was about to change, for me in a
:06:51. > :06:53.really positive way. And, you know, in a blink it had all gone. So,
:06:54. > :07:11.absolutely devastating. I didn't look at the screen, but all
:07:12. > :07:17.I remember is the sonography saying, "I am very sorry, guys." And that
:07:18. > :07:21.was that. She said, "I am sorry Mrs Patel.
:07:22. > :07:33.Your baby's dead." Reena Patel's baby, Mayan, could
:07:34. > :07:36.have lived. At seven-and-a-half months he was perfectly formed, but
:07:37. > :07:42.smaller than he should have been, because he had been starved of
:07:43. > :07:47.oxygen and nutrients. It just wasn't spotted. It breaks my heart every
:07:48. > :07:55.time I go to the graveyard to find another baby has been buried.
:07:56. > :08:01.Every week or so, more baby coffins are brought down here and buried.
:08:02. > :08:05.And it is the frequency that is so disturbing. There is a row here
:08:06. > :08:10.where three babies died on consecutive days and another row
:08:11. > :08:15.there, at the back, where three babies, all from different families,
:08:16. > :08:22.died on the same day. There are shared baby graves like
:08:23. > :08:28.this all over the country. More than half of hospitals use them.
:08:29. > :08:32.You will think they must have been seriously ill with something
:08:33. > :08:38.undetectable, something untreatable, but actually many of them were fully
:08:39. > :08:41.formed, apparently healthy babies. You might be saying, surely it is
:08:42. > :08:47.the same the world over - giving birth can be a risky business.
:08:48. > :08:53.Actually, no, in the UK the figures for stillbirths are particularly
:08:54. > :08:58.bad. In a study, out of 35 countries, Britain came 33rd.
:08:59. > :09:02.Even though our stillbirth rate has reduced slightly in the last year,
:09:03. > :09:09.that small decline has been out-performed in other countries.
:09:10. > :09:13.Tonight, Panorama brings you three pioneering doctors with big ideas,
:09:14. > :09:18.whose methods could change everything. Each is achieving
:09:19. > :09:23.spectacular drops in the stillbirth rate. So, why are their methods not
:09:24. > :09:26.being rolled out across the country, so that all can benefit?
:09:27. > :09:27.To being rolled out across the country,
:09:28. > :09:31.so that all can benefit? To some Degree the NHS is an oil
:09:32. > :09:35.tanker. If you need to change practise, is not easy to do it. It
:09:36. > :09:42.takes time. We are looking at the baby's head
:09:43. > :09:47.down here. Even if I were to produce a study know to show we can make a
:09:48. > :09:49.change, the evidence would suggest it would take 10-20 years before
:09:50. > :10:01.practise changes. Britain is well known, in many
:10:02. > :10:04.aspects of medicine and many aspects of science, for producing
:10:05. > :10:11.pioneering, new developments. It is a sad day when the pioneers that are
:10:12. > :10:12.producing the new evidence are not able to practise their discoveries
:10:13. > :10:31.in this country. Obstetrician Professor Jason Gardosi
:10:32. > :10:38.travels the world, from his base at the perinatal institute in
:10:39. > :10:43.Birmingham. Today, he's on a mission on Scotland
:10:44. > :10:47.to try and convince midwives and obstetricians to sign up to his
:10:48. > :10:53.programme for reducing stillbirths in low-risk mothers, using a
:10:54. > :10:57.low-tech and low-cost procedure. One of the main things that we were
:10:58. > :11:02.up against when we started this a few years ago was that most
:11:03. > :11:10.stillbirths were classified as unexplained. The implication of that
:11:11. > :11:17.is unexplained equals unavoidable. For us, each stillbirth is a tragedy
:11:18. > :11:22.which is like a plane crash and we wanted to investigate this as you
:11:23. > :11:27.would in the airline industry. For us, the flight recorder, the
:11:28. > :11:34.black box, was the case notes of the unfortunate mother.
:11:35. > :11:40.Professor Gardosi and his team trawled through the case notes of
:11:41. > :11:43.hundreds of stillbirths. They found that far from being unexplained,
:11:44. > :11:50.many of the deaths were avoidable. And had come about as a result of a
:11:51. > :11:55.failure in the mother's placenta. In the womb, the baby receives food,
:11:56. > :11:59.nutrients and oxygen from the placenta.
:12:00. > :12:04.If there is a problem and the blood flow is abnormal, the baby's growth
:12:05. > :12:08.is likely to slow. The challenge is to spot which
:12:09. > :12:15.babies are struggling and save them before it is too late.
:12:16. > :12:25.Professor Gardosi tries to identify babies that are struggling, not
:12:26. > :12:28.through invasive surgery or even through scans but through software
:12:29. > :12:35.and something that most of us have in our own homes. A tape measure.
:12:36. > :12:39.A mid-Wye, trained by Professor guard -- a midwife, trained by
:12:40. > :12:44.Professor Gardosi talks us through the procedure. Sue is trying to
:12:45. > :12:49.detect any problems with the growth of Ruby's baby, at 31 weeks. The
:12:50. > :12:57.chart predicts the size a healthy baby should be. This is rub bi's --
:12:58. > :13:00.Ruby's individualised chart. This chart has been developed using her
:13:01. > :13:07.height, her weight, at the beginning of pregnancy. Her ethnic origin and
:13:08. > :13:09.how many babies she has had. All that, including ethnic origin
:13:10. > :13:16.dictates the size you expect the baby to be. Yes. If it falls outside
:13:17. > :13:21.these contours, then what? We may see the baby's growth has slowed or
:13:22. > :13:27.suddenly increase. If I saw any of these I would refer Ruby for a scan
:13:28. > :13:29.in the main antenatal clinic. If a growth problem is detected the
:13:30. > :13:34.mother is scanned to establish the cause. OK, so this is where it was
:13:35. > :13:38.on the chart last time you were measured. And we are going to
:13:39. > :13:51.measure again. Are you happy to be measured? Yes. Let's do it again. I
:13:52. > :14:00.measure the bump to the symphysis pubis. Ruby is 31 weeks. We plot 29
:14:01. > :14:07.sensy metres, which is on the 50th centile. On the middle.
:14:08. > :14:12.Almost perfect. Professor Gardosi's charts have not won everybody over.
:14:13. > :14:17.Despite the fact that hospitals which have adopted his methods in
:14:18. > :14:36.the UK have seen their stillbirth rate drop by up to 22 2 2. About --
:14:37. > :14:43.22%. He estimates it is only 50 p per pregnancy.
:14:44. > :14:50.On BBC Radio Berkshire, it is Anne Diamond. Thank you. I am Anne
:14:51. > :14:54.Diamond. A special programme for you today about stillbirths. Every year,
:14:55. > :14:57.3,000 babies in this country are stillborn, making it one of the
:14:58. > :15:02.highest rates in the developed world...
:15:03. > :15:09.It's not the first time there's been a problem rolling out a potential
:15:10. > :15:15.life saver for babies across the UK. One summer morning in 1991, TV
:15:16. > :15:21.presenter Anne Diamond found her baby boy, Sebastien, dead in his
:15:22. > :15:25.cot. I went into Sebastien's bedroom and I could see he was in his cot,
:15:26. > :15:30.face down, one little arm sticking out between the bars of the cot.
:15:31. > :15:35.Nothing unusual there, until I went over and felt his arm. It was stone
:15:36. > :15:41.cold. I then went to pick him up and he was like a stiff little statuism
:15:42. > :15:47.knew immediate -- statue. I knew immediately that he was dead and had
:15:48. > :15:53.been dead for a few hours. Just four months old, Sebastien had succumbed
:15:54. > :15:58.to cot death. There was already a study under way in New Zealand,
:15:59. > :16:03.which found you could cut 50% of cot deaths by turning your baby on its
:16:04. > :16:07.back. Even so, the British Government of the day never told
:16:08. > :16:12.mothers. They were waiting for more data, more proof. The Department of
:16:13. > :16:16.Health here said well, hang on, we don't really have the data to prove
:16:17. > :16:20.it. We think it might work, but we can't prove it. I later found that
:16:21. > :16:23.our professionals in this country did know what was going on in New
:16:24. > :16:28.Zealand, but me, living in London, I didn't know that. Why not? I found
:16:29. > :16:32.that the professionals in our country were obsessed with wanting
:16:33. > :16:36.more and more evidence. How come me, as a mum, was left ignorant, when if
:16:37. > :16:41.I'd happened to live in New Zealand my baby might still be alive? I
:16:42. > :16:50.don't think I'll ever forgive the British Government. Anne went into
:16:51. > :16:56.campaign mode, going on TV and radio to demand change. Cot death is
:16:57. > :16:59.compare Tivoli rare but there are few things more She made her tragic.
:17:00. > :17:04.Own advert and finally managed to sting the Government into action.
:17:05. > :17:08.The Department of Health's new leaflet explains how anyone who
:17:09. > :17:13.looks after a young baby can help reduce the risk of cot death. How
:17:14. > :17:17.many babies' lives were saved? We reckon certainly within the first
:17:18. > :17:22.few years, 15,000 babies' lives were saved. Incredible. It was Now she
:17:23. > :17:27.wants incredible. To get involved again, this time with stillbirths.
:17:28. > :17:31.She's invited Professor Gardosi onto her show to give his message to the
:17:32. > :17:35.listeners of radio Berkshire. Are you able to tell, yet, how many you
:17:36. > :17:39.can save? What sort of a difference will this make, in numbers terms?
:17:40. > :17:42.We've done it in the West Midlands and then we've done it in several
:17:43. > :17:47.other regions that have picked up the training programme. Overall, in
:17:48. > :17:51.the whole country, we are estimating if everybody picked up this fairly
:17:52. > :17:55.simple but standardised evidence-based method, we can save a
:17:56. > :18:00.thousand stillbirths each year. That is unbelievable. Why aren't we doing
:18:01. > :18:04.something about this? Why isn't every hospital - I mean, it's so
:18:05. > :18:12.simple. It's easy to carry out. You can train the professionals to do
:18:13. > :18:16.it... Back in London, Samantha, at 34 weeks pregnant, has arrived at a
:18:17. > :18:19.specialist unit in St George's Hospital to see if the blood flow
:18:20. > :18:28.into her placenta is worsening and putting her baby at risk. The
:18:29. > :18:33.consultant who will examine her is Professor Basky Thilaganathan, one
:18:34. > :18:37.of the country's leading obstetricians.
:18:38. > :18:42.I hope you don't mind my sitting in on this? No, you're welcome. Good to
:18:43. > :18:47.see you. This piece of equipment, available in most hospitals, can
:18:48. > :18:53.visualise and measure the blood flow between Samantha's placenta and her
:18:54. > :18:59.baby. It's called a doppler scan. Sam came along mid-pregnancy for her
:19:00. > :19:03.routine scan. We found that the doppler assessment of blood flow to
:19:04. > :19:06.the womb indicated the placenta hadn't formed as well as it should
:19:07. > :19:11.have done. The placenta is struggling a bit. Often when the
:19:12. > :19:17.placenta fails, it's towards the end of pregnancy, like with Samantha.
:19:18. > :19:21.That means their baby can be delivered early, often by Caesarean,
:19:22. > :19:26.without the need for intensive care. The problem is most hospitals only
:19:27. > :19:31.use doppler scans on high-risk women because those are the national
:19:32. > :19:37.guidelines. Professor Thilaganathan and his team at St George's think
:19:38. > :19:41.that's wrong and give toplers to all first-time mothers as well, like
:19:42. > :19:46.Samantha, at an additional cost of just ?15 per pregnancy.
:19:47. > :19:49.Is it possible that this baby could have been lost, if he were being
:19:50. > :19:53.delivered in another hospital? It's a difficult question to answer, but
:19:54. > :19:56.I think it is entirely possible that this baby could have been lost in
:19:57. > :20:00.another She was fortunate hospital. To be here? Because not many
:20:01. > :20:06.hospitals do what you do. No, that's true. That went well, didn't it?
:20:07. > :20:10.Yeah, definitely. Really happy today. Baby's put on some weight and
:20:11. > :20:13.everything is stable. You could be giving birth this time in three
:20:14. > :20:15.Could be, but days. Hopefully not. I'd like to go another week, if
:20:16. > :20:24.possible. Hopefully. Fingers crossed. Brilliant. Offering topler
:20:25. > :20:29.scans to all first-time mothers, as well as those at high risk, seems to
:20:30. > :20:37.have yielded a remarkable result. Over the last two years, we've had a
:20:38. > :20:40.50% drop in stillbirths. 50%? A lot of Trusts would love that figure. I
:20:41. > :20:47.think you're right. We'd-to have that. -- We'd love to have that.
:20:48. > :20:49.Like with cot death, the decision makers want more data, more
:20:50. > :20:55.evidence, something Professor Thilaganathan is prepared for. It's
:20:56. > :20:59.difficult for me to proffer that -- to prove that the interventions
:21:00. > :21:02.we're doing on the ultrasound base add preach are the very reason for
:21:03. > :21:07.the drop in stillbirth. We need to get on and do proper studies to
:21:08. > :21:11.ensure that is really what's Aren't you being happening. A bit modest? A
:21:12. > :21:15.lot of people would say this is down to you and your techniques? I'd like
:21:16. > :21:18.to that I that this is our intervention that has changed the
:21:19. > :21:22.stillbirth rate. However, one must be cautious. I need to be absolutely
:21:23. > :21:32.certain it is my intervention that caused the reduction in stillbirths.
:21:33. > :21:38.But others are confident there's enough evidence out there already on
:21:39. > :21:44.the life-saving use on dopplers. How are you? OK. You are the man
:21:45. > :21:47.responsible? I am. Professor Kypros Nicolaides works at Kings College
:21:48. > :21:55.Hospital in London. Many regard him as the father of foetal medicine.
:21:56. > :22:01.Today, he's in the procedure room to operate on unborn twins. The
:22:02. > :22:07.mother's placenta is feeding too much blood to one, too little to the
:22:08. > :22:18.other. Doctors come from around the world to study his techniques. Can
:22:19. > :22:24.you see? Going down the Tube. Then we need to look at the blood
:22:25. > :22:28.vessels. Can you see that? He believes the UK's stillbirth rate
:22:29. > :22:32.could be reduced dramatically almost overnight, if the medical
:22:33. > :22:35.establishment were willing. He favours a similar method to
:22:36. > :22:43.Professor Thilaganathan, a doppler scan, but in his case, three of them
:22:44. > :22:48.at 12, 22 and around 33 weeks. We have demonstrated through extensive
:22:49. > :22:54.research that you can identify more than 90% of those cases from the
:22:55. > :22:59.12th week assessment. Do you think you could avoid therefore more than
:23:00. > :23:04.50% of the stillbirths? We can easily avoid them. We can do so
:23:05. > :23:10.through very simple adjustment in the way we deliver antenatal care.
:23:11. > :23:15.With the support of his hospital administrators, he offers care
:23:16. > :23:21.beyond the national guidelines, three doppler scans to all pregnant
:23:22. > :23:25.women. But consultants who've tried to implement the same programme in
:23:26. > :23:30.other hospitals have met with resistance. They had to stop because
:23:31. > :23:34.they were outside the guidelines. People will be surprised that if
:23:35. > :23:38.there are individual consultants who believe they have an improvement to
:23:39. > :23:47.the guidelines, they're sometimes pressurised not to implement it. But
:23:48. > :23:50.that is the case. The Department of Health told Panorama it's asked
:23:51. > :23:58.Professor Nicolaides to submit his research so it can be considered for
:23:59. > :24:01.wider use in the NHS. The NHS is very, very good. Many countries are
:24:02. > :24:06.jealous of the care that you provide for the whole population. It is
:24:07. > :24:11.against this background that you are discussing the issues of
:24:12. > :24:15.stillbirths, but it is critical that we continue to improve the care that
:24:16. > :24:18.we provide the Opportunities are being patients. Missed being at the
:24:19. > :24:25.moment? I think that we must speed things up. The medical establishment
:24:26. > :24:29.is wary of speed, even when the intervention is low risk and
:24:30. > :24:34.nonsurgical. Professor Gordon Smith is one of their champions. He
:24:35. > :24:39.supports change, buffer only when based on rigorous scientific
:24:40. > :24:44.testing. This is some of our storage facility for the samples we've
:24:45. > :24:52.collected. In his fridges could be the answer everyone's looking for.
:24:53. > :24:57.He is studying samples from more than 4,000 placentas. It's already
:24:58. > :25:01.taken six years. I think if we want to impact in the care of hundreds of
:25:02. > :25:04.thousands of women in the UK and potentially millions of women around
:25:05. > :25:08.the world, you have to have this level of activity, this seriousness
:25:09. > :25:16.and to generate the highest quality evidence. This is the route we have
:25:17. > :25:21.taken. His work is part of a ?12 million Government-funded research
:25:22. > :25:25.programme. But he's keeping an eye on the work at St George's and
:25:26. > :25:32.King's and suspects they might be onto something. My personal hunch is
:25:33. > :25:37.that scans almost certainly will work, doppler scans will work well,
:25:38. > :25:41.better than just growth scans and combining growth, doppler and blood
:25:42. > :25:45.tests we'll be able to identify high-risk babies. We don't change
:25:46. > :25:48.the care of 800,000 women based on a hunch. We have to provide the
:25:49. > :25:52.evidence that what we want to do is safe, effective and cost effective.
:25:53. > :25:55.If you were to get that strong evidence, how significant do you
:25:56. > :25:58.think it will be globally? It could be very significant. There are
:25:59. > :26:01.800,000 women giving birth in the UK each year. There's four million
:26:02. > :26:08.women in the United States. There's millions of women around Europe. The
:26:09. > :26:13.NHS isn't going to fund a large-scale intervention that hasn't
:26:14. > :26:17.clearly been shown to be safe and effective. Samantha, how are you?
:26:18. > :26:23.I'm good, thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. That is
:26:24. > :26:26.fantastic. Samantha's fortunate, her hospital in London provided a
:26:27. > :26:30.doppler scan when they were not required to and baby Lettie was
:26:31. > :26:36.delivered five weeks early by Caesarean. Is she doing a lot of
:26:37. > :26:40.crying? No, she only cries when she wants I'm still holding feeding.
:26:41. > :26:44.These - they're for you! Thank you. You've waited a long time for this,
:26:45. > :26:48.haven't you? There was probably a time when you thought it might not
:26:49. > :26:52.happen? Yeah, it felt like a long way. It's all worked out in the end.
:26:53. > :26:56.Very happy, very pleased. You'd better take her and feed her.
:26:57. > :27:04.Definitely or she'll stark squawking. Better go. Thank you so
:27:05. > :27:07.much. Bye, Lettie. If Samantha can benefit from such a low-cost
:27:08. > :27:10.intervention, which has the endorsement of some of our leading
:27:11. > :27:20.practitioners, isn't it time to make the change for everyone? Every
:27:21. > :27:24.single hospital in England has the experts, the expertise and the
:27:25. > :27:30.machinery to offer a much higher standard of care for the pregnant
:27:31. > :27:36.women of this country. But this year, just like every other year,
:27:37. > :27:40.many hundreds of babies will die in the UK, when potential solutions are
:27:41. > :27:43.out there. I think it's stunning, the
:27:44. > :27:50.similarity between what happened to me 20-odd years ago. We seem to be
:27:51. > :27:53.onle brink with stillbirths -- on the brink with stillbirths of having
:27:54. > :27:57.found a solution of being able to save many, many thousands of lives.
:27:58. > :28:03.The fact that we, as a society, don't see it as important losing aI
:28:04. > :28:07.baby. It's almost -- losing a baby. It's almost a natural tragedy that
:28:08. > :28:11.you have to accept. Why accept it? The Department of Health declined to
:28:12. > :28:15.take part in our programme but told Panorama: "The NHS is a safe place
:28:16. > :28:25.to give birth with women reporting high levels of trust and confidence
:28:26. > :28:28.in staff." They added, they've reversed the historic decline in
:28:29. > :28:36.midwife numbers with a record number in training.
:28:37. > :28:43.For details of organisations which offer advice and support, go online
:28:44. > :28:46.to bbc.co.uk/actionline. Or call the BBC Action Line to hear recorded
:28:47. > :28:49.information.