0:00:00 > 0:00:00.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27On our panel tonight - the entertainer, broadcaster
0:00:27 > 0:00:30and agriculturalist, Ifan Gruffydd.
0:00:30 > 0:00:34The Labour MP for Llanelli since 2005, Nia Griffith.
0:00:34 > 0:00:39The Conservative AM for Preseli Pembrokeshire, Paul Davies.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41And from Aberystwyth University,
0:00:41 > 0:00:46the director of the Mercator Media Centre, Elin Haf Gruffydd Jones.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48Please welcome them.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50APPLAUSE
0:00:56 > 0:01:01Good evening and welcome to a new series of Pawb a'i Farn.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04The series will run until Easter and I must say,
0:01:04 > 0:01:06it's nice to be back on the road
0:01:06 > 0:01:09and visit the hearts of Welsh communities once again.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13We're starting in Ceredigion, in Pontrhydfendigaid,
0:01:13 > 0:01:17and our audience is made up of people from the area who have come here
0:01:17 > 0:01:19to Pontrhydfendigaid Pavilion.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22We certainly have plenty to discuss.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25This year, you can join in the discussion on Twitter.
0:01:25 > 0:01:27Yes, Pawb a'i Farn has discovered that medium.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29The address is on your screen now.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32If you'd like to be a member of the audience,
0:01:32 > 0:01:36our next two programmes will come from Rhyl and Llanelli.
0:01:36 > 0:01:38But tonight, we're in Pontrhydfendigaid,
0:01:38 > 0:01:41and our first question comes from Brynmor John.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43Brynmor, what's your question?
0:01:43 > 0:01:47- Brynmor Morgan.- Brynmor Morgan, I'm sorry.- Thank you, Dewi.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49Did the panel agree with the decision
0:01:49 > 0:01:53made by public sector workers to go on strike yesterday?
0:01:53 > 0:01:57After all, whatever changes are made,
0:01:57 > 0:02:00they will have excellent pensions.
0:02:00 > 0:02:02The first question of the night,
0:02:02 > 0:02:05and the first question of the series from Brynmor Morgan.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09Did the panel agree with the decision made by public sector workers
0:02:09 > 0:02:11to go on strike yesterday?
0:02:11 > 0:02:15After all, whatever changes are made, they will have excellent pensions.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18Nia Griffith, let's start with you.
0:02:18 > 0:02:23The right to strike is a basic part of a democratic society.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27But what's very sad is the fact that the Tory Government
0:02:27 > 0:02:33has created a situation where responsible and reasonable workers
0:02:33 > 0:02:36think that there's no solution but to go on strike.
0:02:36 > 0:02:41It's very sad because the Government has failed to negotiate.
0:02:41 > 0:02:46Workers know that back in 2008,
0:02:46 > 0:02:51we sorted out and reorganised pension plans
0:02:51 > 0:02:54so that they were sustainable and affordable.
0:02:54 > 0:02:57We changed the system.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00We changed it in 2008.
0:03:00 > 0:03:08Workers can now see that they're going to pay 3% more income tax.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11A lot of them, of course, are on low incomes,
0:03:11 > 0:03:15and they're now having to pay £30 a month.
0:03:15 > 0:03:19We'll get to that later. Did yesterday's strike have any effect?
0:03:19 > 0:03:22What's very important is that they had a right to strike.
0:03:22 > 0:03:28- It's very sad...- It might be sad but did the strike have any effect?
0:03:28 > 0:03:33We need to get the Government back to the table
0:03:33 > 0:03:37and I don't see much hope with this Government.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40Paul Davies, Nia says more discussions are needed.
0:03:40 > 0:03:42The discussions continue, of course.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45The discussions have been ongoing for months.
0:03:45 > 0:03:49But let me say from the start that public sector staff
0:03:49 > 0:03:54do very good work, sometimes in very difficult conditions.
0:03:54 > 0:04:00It think it's sad that this strike was led by trade union leaders
0:04:00 > 0:04:03because the discussions were ongoing
0:04:03 > 0:04:08and it seems that this strike was organised months ago in September.
0:04:08 > 0:04:12But you can't blame the leaders. There was support for it.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16There were up to two million people on strike.
0:04:16 > 0:04:21Since September, the Government has moved significantly on this issue.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24The Government has made that clear.
0:04:24 > 0:04:29- It made a very generous offer back in...- Not to young people.
0:04:29 > 0:04:33Young people are finding it difficult to pay their bills now.
0:04:33 > 0:04:34What you have to remember
0:04:34 > 0:04:38is that the former Labour pensions secretary, Lord Hutton,
0:04:38 > 0:04:41has said himself that this is a generous offer.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44Nia, do you want to respond?
0:04:44 > 0:04:49If you make an offer, you have to discuss what's there.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51The discussions are ongoing.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54In 2008, we made the pensions sustainable.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58If you look at the figures, you'll see that teachers, for example,
0:04:58 > 0:05:03that teachers paid a lot more in than they received from the system.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07But do you accept that some kind of change is needed?
0:05:07 > 0:05:10With regard to pensions, do you accept that a change is needed?
0:05:10 > 0:05:15What we accept is that we did it for public pensions in 2008.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19We don't even know if the Labour Party
0:05:19 > 0:05:22supported the strike or opposed it.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25I'm not surprised that the Labour Party
0:05:25 > 0:05:28isn't sure what it's position is
0:05:28 > 0:05:34because 90% of Labour's income is funded by the trade unions.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37But the fact that two million people were on strike
0:05:37 > 0:05:39shows that your policy was condemned.
0:05:39 > 0:05:41Some of those were head teachers
0:05:41 > 0:05:44that wouldn't have dreamt of taking action before today.
0:05:44 > 0:05:48The reality is, the Government has moved significantly on this issue.
0:05:48 > 0:05:52It has made it clear that people who earn less than £15,000
0:05:52 > 0:05:55won't be affected by these changes.
0:05:55 > 0:06:02And also, it won't affect people who are within 10 years of retirement.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05Let's hear from the other two panel members.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08- As someone who works in the public sector, were you on strike?- I was.
0:06:08 > 0:06:14I took part in the march that took place in Aberystwyth.
0:06:14 > 0:06:16I saw a number of familiar faces there.
0:06:16 > 0:06:21People who, as far as I know, haven't been on strikes before.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25The NAHT had never been on strike before in its 140 year-history.
0:06:25 > 0:06:32This show how strongly people feel that public sector workers
0:06:32 > 0:06:35have been paying in to their pensions
0:06:35 > 0:06:39but they, or we, won't be getting what is then owed to us.
0:06:39 > 0:06:44I believe the Government is making the wrong move here.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47They're trying to set public sector workers
0:06:47 > 0:06:50against private sector workers.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58We all live within the same society.
0:06:58 > 0:07:02In this area, the public sector is very important
0:07:02 > 0:07:05to the success of the private sector.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08We also know that in the private sector,
0:07:08 > 0:07:12there are some very poor pensions at the bottom of the ladder.
0:07:12 > 0:07:14But they can be very generous at the top.
0:07:14 > 0:07:16We don't want...
0:07:16 > 0:07:21..public sector pensions to head in the same direction.
0:07:21 > 0:07:22If something, the opposite.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Do you accept at all that changes need to be made?
0:07:25 > 0:07:29The current system is unsustainable.
0:07:29 > 0:07:34With teachers' pensions, according to the latest survey
0:07:34 > 0:07:38of the sustainability of those pensions,
0:07:38 > 0:07:40they are sustainable.
0:07:40 > 0:07:43The deal was done some years ago.
0:07:43 > 0:07:49The policies on the table now are an extra tax for the public sector.
0:07:49 > 0:07:51But it is also misleading.
0:07:51 > 0:07:57It's not just the people who earn less than £15,000 a year
0:07:57 > 0:08:01who will be worse off, but those whose earnings are less.
0:08:01 > 0:08:05They may be working part-time. 90% of those are women.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08You can answer that, Paul, in just a moment.
0:08:08 > 0:08:14Ifan, you're self employed. Do you have sympathy for those on strike?
0:08:14 > 0:08:19If I went on strike, the only person I'd hurt is myself.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22When I saw those schools were shut yesterday,
0:08:22 > 0:08:27I just thought back to my own childhood.
0:08:27 > 0:08:31I thought it was a pity they hadn't gone on strike back then.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38I wished one or two teachers had been on a three-year strike.
0:08:40 > 0:08:45It's nice that someone sees the funny side at such a dark time.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47Do you have any sympathy?
0:08:47 > 0:08:51To be serious, yes. It is one of the rights we have in this country.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54That's why we are the country we are.
0:08:54 > 0:08:57There are people in the Middle East, in Syria and Egypt,
0:08:57 > 0:09:00who are fighting and losing their lives for the rights we have.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04That's why the county is doing as well as it is.
0:09:04 > 0:09:06The only thing I'd say about the pensions,
0:09:06 > 0:09:12I feel promises that have been made 20 years ago should be kept.
0:09:12 > 0:09:14Despite the changes seen in the situation?
0:09:14 > 0:09:18It's difficult, but they should try to stick to these promises.
0:09:18 > 0:09:22The only other thing I can say is if you have a private pension,
0:09:22 > 0:09:26promises had been made to you 20 years ago about those.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29None of those promises have been kept concerning what comes out.
0:09:29 > 0:09:35During the past two months, I've been told it's been a terrible time
0:09:35 > 0:09:37if you've been getting your private pension out.
0:09:37 > 0:09:41Promises were made 20 years ago that you'd get much more.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44So people in the public sector are in a comfortable situation?
0:09:44 > 0:09:49I just feel that these people have more faith
0:09:49 > 0:09:52in the country's economic situation than I do.
0:09:52 > 0:10:00I fear that we could wake up one day and it will be Black Monday...
0:10:00 > 0:10:06Brynmor, you asked the question. What do you think?
0:10:06 > 0:10:11I have respect for anyone who goes on strike.
0:10:11 > 0:10:15That individual must have very strong feelings.
0:10:15 > 0:10:17But according to the press,
0:10:17 > 0:10:25only 22% of members voted in favour of strike action.
0:10:25 > 0:10:30The balance isn't quite right.
0:10:30 > 0:10:38I fear the members are being taken like lambs to the slaughter.
0:10:38 > 0:10:43Do they know what they're striking over?
0:10:43 > 0:10:50Or are they just being led by their union officials?
0:10:50 > 0:10:55The sad thing is, at the end of the day, the world has changed.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57The money isn't available
0:10:57 > 0:11:03in this country, or even in Britain, Europe or the world.
0:11:03 > 0:11:09The money isn't there. You can't do what you could do five years ago.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12Thank you. You've made your point well.
0:11:12 > 0:11:17We have people shaking their heads. You represent a union, is it Unison?
0:11:17 > 0:11:20Sorry, yes. My name is Annie James.
0:11:20 > 0:11:25Cameron said, we're all in this together. But we're not.
0:11:25 > 0:11:31People in central Government in England paid out money to the banks.
0:11:31 > 0:11:35But we, as the workforce, now have to work longer and pay more.
0:11:35 > 0:11:39But we'll be getting much less. We'll be working until we're 68.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43That's not fair. We're not all in this together.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47We work hard as my colleague will confirm.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51The women who work in the NHS
0:11:51 > 0:11:58are looking at getting a pension worth £3,015 a year.
0:11:58 > 0:12:02That is not a golden pension in any way.
0:12:02 > 0:12:07The situation for Unison is the same.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10Touch the pensions and you've got a fight on your hands.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13Did you go out on strike?
0:12:13 > 0:12:16Yes, I was on strike yesterday.
0:12:16 > 0:12:20- Which union are you with?- PCS. - The civil servants.
0:12:20 > 0:12:25But in the public sector, we now have to pay for the mistakes
0:12:25 > 0:12:27the financial sector has made.
0:12:27 > 0:12:31We are being punished for something we didn't do.
0:12:31 > 0:12:35But people are living longer and people can retire early.
0:12:35 > 0:12:38Every independent report has shown
0:12:38 > 0:12:41that public sector pensions are affordable.
0:12:41 > 0:12:47This idea that we are getting remarkable pensions is wrong.
0:12:47 > 0:12:52But it's better than what most people who work in the private sector have.
0:12:52 > 0:12:58On average, public sector workers get about £6,000 a year.
0:12:58 > 0:13:04But in local government, a woman gets much less.
0:13:04 > 0:13:09But in the private sector, the pensions are about the same.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12They are already low, but the Government's plans will mean
0:13:12 > 0:13:17we see around a 20% cut in our pensions.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20And that is just unacceptable.
0:13:20 > 0:13:26- Are you ready to go on strike again? - If the Government doesn't respond.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28What about you in the back row?
0:13:28 > 0:13:32I run a small business. I work for myself.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35I can't afford to get a pension myself.
0:13:35 > 0:13:42I've always paid taxes to pay for the public sector's pensions.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45They will still be getting a great pension.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48But I can't afford to pay for one.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51But you are getting the service these people offer.
0:13:51 > 0:13:58We are tax payers. You should fight for a private sector pension.
0:13:58 > 0:14:02- We should...- Hold on one moment.
0:14:02 > 0:14:07We shouldn't be arguing like this, that's what the Government wants.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10We should have fair pensions for everyone.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12The Government should legislate for that.
0:14:12 > 0:14:16- Ted. What do you have to say? - I depend on the money I earn.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20The money I earn pays for my mortgage.
0:14:20 > 0:14:22I can't afford a pension.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25So you don't have sympathy for these people on strike?
0:14:25 > 0:14:28- Not at all.- There was someone in the front row, here.
0:14:28 > 0:14:29I'll come to you now.
0:14:29 > 0:14:35If there are problems with the private sector pensions,
0:14:35 > 0:14:42you can't improve those by destroying the public sector's.
0:14:42 > 0:14:48It is wrong to say the public sector offers a great pension.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51I'm in the teachers' pension scheme.
0:14:51 > 0:14:56On average, we're talking of about £10,000 a year.
0:14:56 > 0:14:58That isn't excellent.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01If you want to talk about an excellent pension,
0:15:01 > 0:15:05you should look at someone like Sir Fred Goodwin,
0:15:05 > 0:15:07the former Chief Executive of RBS.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09- But he's an exception, isn't he? - I know.
0:15:09 > 0:15:17I know he's an exception, but that's an example of an excellent pension
0:15:17 > 0:15:20for only 10 years' service,
0:15:20 > 0:15:25and when you have teachers with some 40 years' service,
0:15:25 > 0:15:29they get a lot less.
0:15:29 > 0:15:34Someone wanted to come back to you. You wanted to come back. Let's get the microphone over there. Thanks.
0:15:34 > 0:15:39I pay into my own pension. I pay the mortgage, I pay the living costs and everything.
0:15:39 > 0:15:42We pay into it. It's like a delayed salary for us.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45We pay into it, and we expect to get it when we retire.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47Right, OK. You here?
0:15:47 > 0:15:53Whether it's right or not to go on strike, if I can return to this figure of 22% who voted,
0:15:53 > 0:15:56it's clear that 22% was the majority.
0:15:56 > 0:16:01It's up to those others who didn't vote, and the point is...
0:16:01 > 0:16:03It wasn't very democratic, some said.
0:16:03 > 0:16:08It is democratic, of course, because everyone had the right to vote,
0:16:08 > 0:16:12but there wouldn't have been one government since the Second World War
0:16:12 > 0:16:15if a majority was needed.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17They've all been minority governments, except one.
0:16:17 > 0:16:22Right. Does someone else want to contribute? What about some of you farmers... Yes, you there.
0:16:22 > 0:16:27Nia Griffith said about this strike that it was to pay young people.
0:16:27 > 0:16:31Nobody has said anything about elderly people living on a small pension,
0:16:31 > 0:16:33with no hope of getting another pension.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37Nobody thinks about them.
0:16:37 > 0:16:45They get a £5 raise. That's nothing when you think that you have to live on some £110 a week.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48There's no use in these people going on strike.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51They haven't had the chance to earn these big salaries.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54- So you had no sympathy for those people yesterday.- No.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58None at all. Right, someone else, yes? We've heard from you once, but come on.
0:16:58 > 0:17:04People in the public sector haven't had a penny of a pay rise for two years,
0:17:04 > 0:17:07and two years to come, and more again.
0:17:07 > 0:17:14- Yes.- And they're facing 700,000 more people out of work.
0:17:14 > 0:17:21Yes, but we've been trying to stress that we're going to find it hard to afford this kind of pension
0:17:21 > 0:17:23under these new circumstances.
0:17:23 > 0:17:24Your question?
0:17:24 > 0:17:27What makes me angrier than anything,
0:17:27 > 0:17:32forget the strike and everything - it's happened, and hopefully this problem will be solved.
0:17:32 > 0:17:38There are people in different government jobs, this needs to be sorted with the unions,
0:17:38 > 0:17:42but what makes me angrier than anything is that none of the panellists here tonight
0:17:42 > 0:17:46have talked about the shocking amount of money that is spent around the world on wars,
0:17:46 > 0:17:48and our country spends more than anyone.
0:17:48 > 0:17:52Why can't we keep that money?
0:17:52 > 0:17:54Right, let's return to the panel.
0:17:54 > 0:17:55APPLAUSE
0:17:58 > 0:18:02Lots of points being raised. Paul Davies, you can have the first chance to respond to some of them.
0:18:02 > 0:18:09Well, let me start by saying I think it was irresponsible to strike yesterday
0:18:09 > 0:18:13while negotiations were still ongoing.
0:18:13 > 0:18:17Because what I've heard today from UK Government ministers
0:18:17 > 0:18:22is that those negotiations are now very productive,
0:18:22 > 0:18:25and that the problem can hopefully be solved quickly...
0:18:25 > 0:18:28They might be more productive because of the effect of the strike.
0:18:28 > 0:18:31What happened yesterday was that ordinary people were affected,
0:18:31 > 0:18:37because we saw schools closing and patients' operations being postponed,
0:18:37 > 0:18:40and there was also a cost to the economy.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44It seems that the cost to the economy was some £500 million,
0:18:44 > 0:18:46and the economy is fragile as it is.
0:18:46 > 0:18:50it's important now that the Government and the trade unions keep talking,
0:18:50 > 0:18:54- and hopefully these problems can be solved as soon as possible. - Nia?
0:18:54 > 0:18:59I have no confidence at all in the words of the Government,
0:18:59 > 0:19:01- because what they've done... - APPLAUSE
0:19:01 > 0:19:04They've said that you're not going to lose anything,
0:19:04 > 0:19:07but if you go to the Government's own website,
0:19:07 > 0:19:10you can see the figures - you're losing a lot of money,
0:19:10 > 0:19:12especially people under 50 years old,
0:19:12 > 0:19:21who now can't cope with the bills coming into the household - fuel and food bills, and so on.
0:19:21 > 0:19:28They're now going to be paying a great deal more every month as a tax.
0:19:28 > 0:19:32They're the ones losing out, and the bankers get to keep their money.
0:19:32 > 0:19:33Ifan?
0:19:33 > 0:19:36I think we've had some very good years, you know,
0:19:36 > 0:19:39and during those years, there was a terrible waste of money.
0:19:39 > 0:19:44I always thought of Gordon Brown, fair play, that he looked after our money and jobs.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47You know, they say 700,000 will lose their jobs,
0:19:47 > 0:19:50and I'll tell you what half those jobs are -
0:19:50 > 0:19:56jobs he created for busybodies to look over the shoulders of people trying to make a living...
0:19:56 > 0:20:00- APPLAUSE - ..and who were trying to make business in this country.
0:20:00 > 0:20:05He's crippled the industry of this country with...
0:20:05 > 0:20:10Let's move straight on to a specific question about the economy, and that comes from you, Gwenan Arch.
0:20:10 > 0:20:13The Governor of the Bank of England has said today
0:20:13 > 0:20:17that the economic situation is serious and threatening.
0:20:17 > 0:20:22Is it now obvious that UK Government economic policy has failed?
0:20:22 > 0:20:23There we are.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27Gwenan asks, the Governor of the Bank of England has said today
0:20:27 > 0:20:31that the economic situation is serious and threatening, Sir Mervyn King's gloomy prediction.
0:20:31 > 0:20:35Is it now obvious that UK Government economic policy has failed?
0:20:35 > 0:20:39That's obviously a question for you specifically, Paul.
0:20:39 > 0:20:41Well, you wouldn't expect me to say anything else.
0:20:41 > 0:20:44Of course I don't think the UK Government's policy has failed.
0:20:44 > 0:20:48But we've heard this week that it doesn't look promising, does it?
0:20:48 > 0:20:52Well, we couldn't continue, of course, to build an economy on debt and deficit.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55We have to get to grips with those problems,
0:20:55 > 0:21:00and that's what George Osborne and the Government have been doing over the last 18 months.
0:21:00 > 0:21:04We can't build an economy on a situation like that.
0:21:04 > 0:21:10And, of course, bodies like the OECD, the IMF and business organisations,
0:21:10 > 0:21:15believe that the UK Government is on the right track in terms of economic policy.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17But they'll have to borrow more.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21It was announced on Tuesday that we'll have to borrow another £100 million,
0:21:21 > 0:21:23after saying that wouldn't happen.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26Well, to borrow during that time.
0:21:26 > 0:21:33The plan to reduce the deficit and the debt is still on track, and that's what is important.
0:21:33 > 0:21:35We have to deal with this.
0:21:35 > 0:21:41We can't build an economy by borrowing more money, and that, of course...
0:21:41 > 0:21:44You say you can't, but that's exactly what you're going to do.
0:21:44 > 0:21:48That's what Ed Balls and the Labour Party have offered, of course,
0:21:48 > 0:21:52that we borrow more to try and support the economy.
0:21:52 > 0:21:59I think the policies the UK Government has presented to try and grow the private sector,
0:21:59 > 0:22:04because that's what we need to do now, over the coming years, do work...
0:22:04 > 0:22:06But there's no growth, either.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09They have... Well, if we look at what the Government has done -
0:22:09 > 0:22:14they've cut corporation tax, they're going to invest in our infrastructure,
0:22:14 > 0:22:17we heard the announcement yesterday...
0:22:17 > 0:22:22But despite that, there's going to be no growth next year or the year after. Less than 1%.
0:22:22 > 0:22:29The reality is, of course, that the economies of Europe and the world are in confusion at the moment,
0:22:29 > 0:22:31and of course that affects us...
0:22:31 > 0:22:34Right, thanks, Paul. Now, Elin.
0:22:34 > 0:22:39Well, I tend to think that what's happened in the last few days
0:22:39 > 0:22:46now proves that the cuts that have been made are perhaps too deep and too fast,
0:22:46 > 0:22:51and they have led to a total lack of confidence in the economy,
0:22:51 > 0:22:53and that the economy is being undermined,
0:22:53 > 0:22:58and it's therefore more or less impossible to get any growth.
0:22:58 > 0:23:00I think, to some extent,
0:23:00 > 0:23:05that the Westminster government has decided on a timetable
0:23:05 > 0:23:09which fits in with the next election, to solve this problem,
0:23:09 > 0:23:15instead of thinking about what might be the real economic timetable to solve the problem.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19We're going back to the question before about pensions.
0:23:19 > 0:23:26Pensions, the additional pension contributions, are going to pay the debt...
0:23:26 > 0:23:30- APPLAUSE - ..and the reason they want to do it now is to win the next election,
0:23:30 > 0:23:35and I think you need to be looking further ahead than just one election to get us out of this.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38Right. That's a very serious accusation, Paul.
0:23:38 > 0:23:41I want to go to Ifan first. What do you make of this question, Ifan?
0:23:41 > 0:23:47Well, it worries me every time I see Mervyn King, to tell the truth.
0:23:47 > 0:23:53I can't help... The gentleman is very good at his job,
0:23:53 > 0:23:59but he reminds me of Mr Grimsdale in the Norman Wisdom films years ago.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03He was always in trouble, poor man, and dealing with Pitkin,
0:24:03 > 0:24:08and this man has a lot of Pitkins to deal with, between the banks and the politicians,
0:24:08 > 0:24:11but I think he's serious in what he said today.
0:24:11 > 0:24:15I do think that the Euro will collapse within a month or two.
0:24:15 > 0:24:19They know that there are countries in the Eurozone that will have to be cut out,
0:24:19 > 0:24:23and he has told banks in this country to be very careful.
0:24:23 > 0:24:27The only thing I worry about is that they'll get too careful now again,
0:24:27 > 0:24:31and close the doors too tight on lending to businesses,
0:24:31 > 0:24:32but I do think...
0:24:32 > 0:24:36You know, I hear no-one saying tonight that we're on the edge of a precipice,
0:24:36 > 0:24:40rather like those caravans in South Wales a fortnight ago.
0:24:40 > 0:24:42Financially, we are there, I think.
0:24:42 > 0:24:46Well, perhaps other people don't believe that. We'll see now. Gwenan?
0:24:46 > 0:24:51Yes, I agree with Ifan. I'm in my early twenties, and I do feel that we're on the edge of a precipice.
0:24:51 > 0:24:56Whether there's hope in the years to come for young people like me
0:24:56 > 0:24:59to get jobs and salaries and things like that.
0:24:59 > 0:25:02So this point always comes back to us -
0:25:02 > 0:25:05will there be enough jobs and money in this country
0:25:05 > 0:25:07to support us as young people?
0:25:09 > 0:25:12- Things are looking bleak, you feel?- Yes.
0:25:12 > 0:25:16The final word in the middle, here. Here we are.
0:25:16 > 0:25:20Thank you. Off you go.
0:25:20 > 0:25:26We're certainly in a situation, not only in the UK,
0:25:26 > 0:25:31but also in Europe, where our backs are to the wall.
0:25:31 > 0:25:35It's time we looked at this seriously.
0:25:35 > 0:25:41The gap between the top and bottom wages is far too big.
0:25:41 > 0:25:45We've heard £100 pension for the elderly
0:25:45 > 0:25:49and there are plenty of them having to live on that.
0:25:49 > 0:25:56But we have huge wages that are not simply over the top...
0:25:56 > 0:26:00How would you solve that problem?
0:26:00 > 0:26:07Well, in Norway years ago, when I went there, they had a system where
0:26:07 > 0:26:14no wages went above a certain level, where the government was in control.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18They also had a minimum and it's time we moved
0:26:18 > 0:26:21towards that and started cutting our costs. As Selwyn said,
0:26:21 > 0:26:26- let's return home from the war. - Right. Let's go to the front row.
0:26:26 > 0:26:31A teacher at Ysgol Gyfun Tregaron.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34I don't normally agree with the Labour Party,
0:26:34 > 0:26:38but what Ed Balls has been saying this past year has been spot on.
0:26:38 > 0:26:43The government's cuts have been too deep and too quick.
0:26:43 > 0:26:47They have introduced public sector cuts,
0:26:47 > 0:26:51there are also problems in the private sector.
0:26:51 > 0:26:54But as a result of that situation, the financial markets
0:26:54 > 0:26:58have more respect for Britain than towards Italy, for example.
0:26:58 > 0:27:01You look at what's happening - there is less money in people's pockets,
0:27:01 > 0:27:03there is less confidence in the economy,
0:27:03 > 0:27:06they're not going out to spend money and it's coming up to Christmas.
0:27:06 > 0:27:12People aren't spending. The money's not going back into the economy.
0:27:12 > 0:27:14Thank you. Ceredig Davies.
0:27:14 > 0:27:19The question was - is the Government's policy a success?
0:27:19 > 0:27:23It depends on how you measure it. As Dewi just said,
0:27:23 > 0:27:27the financial markets see that Britain has the correct policy
0:27:27 > 0:27:32because this country can borrow money cheaper than other countries.
0:27:32 > 0:27:34I think the question should be -
0:27:34 > 0:27:38was the policy for the last 20 years across the whole of Europe
0:27:38 > 0:27:42the correct policy? It's now clear that policy was wrong
0:27:42 > 0:27:44That's why we're in this situation.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47So you blame the previous Labour government?
0:27:47 > 0:27:52I would blame the governments over the last two generations.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56- Right.- The money is transferred to the Assembly. I'm a proud Welshman.
0:27:56 > 0:28:02But having an assembly, we are getting less in rural areas.
0:28:02 > 0:28:05They don't want to know about anything north of Carmarthen.
0:28:05 > 0:28:11And as far as jobs, jobs are being created in Cardiff.
0:28:11 > 0:28:16We are losing out in rural areas, we can't keep our young people.
0:28:16 > 0:28:20They all want to go to Cardiff. I don't blame them.
0:28:20 > 0:28:22But that's what's happening.
0:28:22 > 0:28:26The Assembly is spending on the M4 corridor yet again.
0:28:26 > 0:28:33Right, that is a message I often hear. Up to the back row again.
0:28:33 > 0:28:36I'm worried about young people's wages.
0:28:36 > 0:28:40I have children who cannot get jobs in this area.
0:28:40 > 0:28:43I think the best jobs available at the moment is heads of unions.
0:28:43 > 0:28:47- They get a very high wage. They're the best jobs.- Briefly.
0:28:47 > 0:28:52I'd say there is another way the Government could have dealt
0:28:52 > 0:28:57with the debt and that would have meant going after
0:28:57 > 0:29:01the £120 billion in tax that is avoided and not paid every year.
0:29:01 > 0:29:05We could have established a Robin Hood tax to get the bankers
0:29:05 > 0:29:07to pay for the mess they created.
0:29:07 > 0:29:11What about the point that your government borrowed and spent
0:29:11 > 0:29:13so much and that has led to this mess?
0:29:13 > 0:29:18What has happened is the Tory Party agreed with us up until 2008.
0:29:18 > 0:29:22And what we have done since then is we have seen
0:29:22 > 0:29:26that people are suffering, people were unemployed and so on.
0:29:26 > 0:29:31We have created jobs, we have used the money to help the economy.
0:29:31 > 0:29:33That is what has happened.
0:29:33 > 0:29:37The Government has failed with the economy, there is no growth
0:29:37 > 0:29:41and the economy has slowed, even before the euro crisis.
0:29:41 > 0:29:46And that is the feeling from many in the audience, Paul Davies.
0:29:46 > 0:29:49The previous Labour Government has a huge responsibility.
0:29:49 > 0:29:53It's been 18 months. Isn't it time you stopped blaming them?
0:29:53 > 0:29:55During that time, what we saw...
0:29:55 > 0:30:00But we agreed on the spending up until 2008.
0:30:00 > 0:30:05While the economy was doing well, what did the Labour Government do?
0:30:05 > 0:30:09- They borrowed more.- But you agreed with us up until 2008.
0:30:09 > 0:30:12You were also asking for more.
0:30:12 > 0:30:16Countries such as Australia, they paid off their national debt.
0:30:16 > 0:30:19That is it on that subject. Thank you and thank you to the audience.
0:30:19 > 0:30:23A good start to the series. But it's time now for a break.
0:30:23 > 0:30:27Join us in a couple of minutes.
0:30:42 > 0:30:44Welcome back.
0:30:44 > 0:30:49We're in Pontrhydfendigaid for a new series of Pawb a'i Farn.
0:30:49 > 0:30:54Let's move on to our third question, which comes from Meima Morse.
0:30:54 > 0:30:58There is a strong feeling that the Hywel Dda Health Board
0:30:58 > 0:31:00is not being fair with this area.
0:31:00 > 0:31:04The future of Bronglais Hospital appears uncertain
0:31:04 > 0:31:08and nearly half the beds at Tregaron have been closed
0:31:08 > 0:31:13without any discussions taking place with the local community.
0:31:14 > 0:31:18What is the response of the panel members to this?
0:31:18 > 0:31:24You clearly feel very strongly. You can see it in your eyes.
0:31:24 > 0:31:31I feel that local hospitals such as Tregaron give different support
0:31:31 > 0:31:36to the people living in the community.
0:31:36 > 0:31:39Some from Hywel Teifi asked my mother in Swansea,
0:31:39 > 0:31:42"Are you looking forward to going home?"
0:31:42 > 0:31:46"Yes, I'm looking forward to returning to Tregaron."
0:31:46 > 0:31:51- That says it all.- So Tregaron and Bronglais are a concern?- Of course.
0:31:51 > 0:31:55- But especially Tregaron.- I'll get the opinions of the audience later.
0:31:55 > 0:31:58May I begin with someone who has used these facilities?
0:31:58 > 0:32:02- Ifan, what do you think? Is Meima right?- Yes, she is.
0:32:02 > 0:32:05As far as Tregaron is concerned,
0:32:05 > 0:32:09there were around 29 beds until very recently.
0:32:09 > 0:32:15I have the experience of my own parents, my late parents.
0:32:15 > 0:32:18That's where my father died.
0:32:18 > 0:32:21He spent the last six months of his life there.
0:32:21 > 0:32:27My mother was there for months. It was nice...
0:32:27 > 0:32:32You have to carry on with life. You have to carry on working.
0:32:32 > 0:32:35It is so local.
0:32:35 > 0:32:38I could go in even in the afternoons,
0:32:38 > 0:32:41I could go in at lunchtime and help with feeding.
0:32:41 > 0:32:45- I could also go there every night. - But are those days over?- No.
0:32:45 > 0:32:50All these politicians want us to do is not travel,
0:32:50 > 0:32:55not to use our cars, they want us to stop using so much petrol
0:32:55 > 0:33:00and diesel and then they move everything further away.
0:33:06 > 0:33:11And as far as Aberystwyth is concerned, I didn't realise
0:33:11 > 0:33:15until I read Patrick O'Brien in the Cambrian News.
0:33:15 > 0:33:20He has been writing about this. It made me wake up about Bronglais.
0:33:20 > 0:33:21Give us a quick picture of the situation.
0:33:21 > 0:33:29Well, regarding the colon and stomach surgery at Aberystwyth.
0:33:29 > 0:33:35Those kind of treatments. I had two operations there in the '80s.
0:33:35 > 0:33:40It was good that I good be treated there, fantastic treatment,
0:33:40 > 0:33:42within 20 miles of my home.
0:33:42 > 0:33:46It was so much easier for my parents, as they were elderly.
0:33:46 > 0:33:50Bronglais goes right across from Meirionnydd to Pembrokeshire.
0:33:50 > 0:33:54It serves a population of 400,000.
0:33:56 > 0:34:00I'm not happy with the actions of Hywel Dda at the moment.
0:34:00 > 0:34:03These people, sorry... Rochdale...
0:34:06 > 0:34:09They have already warned.
0:34:09 > 0:34:13This bloke, the chief executive at Aberystwyth, he was at Rochdale.
0:34:13 > 0:34:19And you're talking about wages. This bloke earns more than David Cameron.
0:34:19 > 0:34:23- Remember that.- Right, let's go to the audience and hear from you all.
0:34:23 > 0:34:27We've heard from Meima and Ifan. Who else has an opinion on this subject?
0:34:27 > 0:34:32We had an open committee at Tregaron a week tonight.
0:34:32 > 0:34:34Around 180 people were present.
0:34:34 > 0:34:39And there was no-one there from Hywel Dda to speak to us,
0:34:39 > 0:34:44to explain why have they have closed beds at Tregaron.
0:34:44 > 0:34:47They didn't even attend the meeting.
0:34:47 > 0:34:51Well, we did invite Hywel Dda to send a representative
0:34:51 > 0:34:53and they sent us a statement.
0:34:53 > 0:34:56There is no representative here, but we did get a statement.
0:34:56 > 0:35:00This is what they say. "As a result of staff shortages,
0:35:00 > 0:35:03"the health board has had to rely more and more on agency staff
0:35:03 > 0:35:07"to ensure there are sufficient numbers of staff at Tregaron.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10"This is unacceptable in ensuring the best service.
0:35:10 > 0:35:13"This is an operational matter
0:35:13 > 0:35:17"and is not the subject of public consultation."
0:35:17 > 0:35:20They say it is an administrative,
0:35:20 > 0:35:25operational matter that they did not need to discuss with you.
0:35:25 > 0:35:27Well, I am quoting to you.
0:35:27 > 0:35:31The jobs were not there for people to apply for at Tregaron.
0:35:31 > 0:35:36The suggestion here is that there is not enough local staff available.
0:35:36 > 0:35:42- That is wrong.- During four years, there were no jobs.- None.
0:35:42 > 0:35:46Right, Ceredig. You know about these things.
0:35:46 > 0:35:49Health has been devolved to the assembly
0:35:49 > 0:35:53and it was expected that the assembly would look after
0:35:53 > 0:35:55the people of Wales and people right across Wales.
0:35:55 > 0:36:00But what we are being offered is hospitals across the north,
0:36:00 > 0:36:04along the A55 and then across south Wales, the M4 and so on.
0:36:04 > 0:36:08But in mid Wales, we will lose these services.
0:36:08 > 0:36:12We've already lost them over the past three or four years.
0:36:12 > 0:36:15It's an awful night out there tonight.
0:36:15 > 0:36:19I'd ask the panellists, especially the two from the south,
0:36:19 > 0:36:23as you return home tonight, think about it,
0:36:23 > 0:36:28that's the journey we must take in order to receive these services.
0:36:31 > 0:36:35You're referring specifically to Bronglais. I have another sentence.
0:36:35 > 0:36:39"We have consistently said that the future of Bronglais
0:36:39 > 0:36:45"as a general hospital is safe." Isn't that enough? Isn't that right?
0:36:45 > 0:36:49That's what they are saying. That is it in black and white.
0:36:49 > 0:36:53Yes, in the back. I understand you're a GP.
0:36:53 > 0:36:58Yes, and I had links with Aber, which is trying to save Bronglais.
0:36:58 > 0:37:03I agree with what has been said so far,
0:37:03 > 0:37:06especially regarding the question.
0:37:06 > 0:37:11The fact is that what the health board is doing to Bronglais
0:37:11 > 0:37:17at the moment is going to leave Bronglais at 9-5, five days a week.
0:37:17 > 0:37:22There won't be any emergency services at Bronglais
0:37:22 > 0:37:25during the night or at weekends.
0:37:25 > 0:37:29You're not just talking about colorectal surgery.
0:37:29 > 0:37:37You're talking about taking all the surgery out of that hospital.
0:37:37 > 0:37:44A hospital cannot live as a complete unit without regular surgery.
0:37:44 > 0:37:52- And I could go on and list all kinds of things that have gone.- Thank you.
0:37:52 > 0:37:58You also must remember who is behind the changes being offered.
0:37:58 > 0:38:02Simon Thomas asked a question at the assembly to Carwyn Jones -
0:38:02 > 0:38:09how were they going to provide clinical expertise
0:38:09 > 0:38:13at general hospitals in the Hywel Dda health board area.
0:38:13 > 0:38:18Carwyn Jones' answer was that they were in talks, discussing how
0:38:18 > 0:38:24to provide clinical expertise in the Hywel Dda health board area.
0:38:24 > 0:38:31- That says it all to me. - So you would assume Carmarthen?- Yes.
0:38:31 > 0:38:34- Or even further afield.- Right.
0:38:34 > 0:38:39- Let's come over here.- It's nice to see Dewi in person, first of all.
0:38:39 > 0:38:43Thank you.
0:38:43 > 0:38:48In my experience, 18 months ago I was diagnosed with bladder
0:38:48 > 0:38:50and prostrate cancer.
0:38:50 > 0:38:56It was John Edwards. It is a six hour operation in Aberystwyth.
0:38:56 > 0:39:01He had to phone Morriston to tell them about the situation,
0:39:01 > 0:39:04that I needed emergency surgery.
0:39:04 > 0:39:08Three-four months! And John said, "Dai won't see three weeks!"
0:39:08 > 0:39:13Carry on with the job. And that is a very common story.
0:39:13 > 0:39:18And I look at Aberystwyth and consider the staff they have.
0:39:18 > 0:39:20That is important.
0:39:23 > 0:39:28They're going to spend £50 million on a new hospital in Cardigan
0:39:28 > 0:39:31and you have Haverfordwest and Glangwili.
0:39:31 > 0:39:36I can tell you, Hywel Dda say, "At the moment,
0:39:36 > 0:39:38"the hospital receives a capital investment of 38 million,
0:39:38 > 0:39:42"the largest in the Hywel Dda region."
0:39:42 > 0:39:4438 million, sounds like a large sum to me.
0:39:44 > 0:39:47They say they are spending that on Bronglais.
0:39:47 > 0:39:50"And whatever changes to take place,
0:39:50 > 0:39:54"there will be public consultation and until that has been completed,
0:39:54 > 0:39:59"no decisions will be made regarding the future of services at Bronglais."
0:39:59 > 0:40:01Is that any comfort?
0:40:01 > 0:40:04- No? Yes, at the back. - It's no comfort at all.
0:40:04 > 0:40:10I'm a funeral director and since January, the post mortems that were
0:40:10 > 0:40:14being carried out in Aberystwyth are now carried out in Shrewsbury.
0:40:14 > 0:40:16It doesn't make any sense.
0:40:16 > 0:40:21Someone dies suddenly in Cardigan and they travel 450 miles
0:40:21 > 0:40:25for a post mortem, rather than travelling 40 miles to Carmarthen.
0:40:25 > 0:40:30What are Hywel Dda trying to do? They have to pay for that.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33Thank you. A word from the younger generation.
0:40:33 > 0:40:38- Let's get the microphone over. - It's right, what's being said.
0:40:38 > 0:40:43When you go to Bronglais, you are always sent somewhere else.
0:40:43 > 0:40:46I was sent to Haverfordwest for knee surgery
0:40:46 > 0:40:50because they didn't have enough staff to do it in Aberystwyth.
0:40:50 > 0:40:54I have to go down there every six weeks just for a check up.
0:40:54 > 0:40:57I travel for about two hours and then wait five minutes.
0:40:57 > 0:41:00Right, I must go to the panel.
0:41:00 > 0:41:04Nia Griffith, there is a Labour Government at the assembly
0:41:04 > 0:41:07financing the health boards.
0:41:07 > 0:41:10What is happening here is what we hate, of course, in Llanelli
0:41:10 > 0:41:15and in this area, the fact that Hywel Dda health board
0:41:15 > 0:41:19is acting without telling anyone what they're doing.
0:41:19 > 0:41:23We're discovering things through the backdoor. I don't like that.
0:41:23 > 0:41:26What's important now is that
0:41:26 > 0:41:31when they consult that it is a full consultation with us,
0:41:31 > 0:41:35as adults, and that we can talk about what is going on
0:41:35 > 0:41:39because what is happening, of course, is they come out
0:41:39 > 0:41:43with a plan and then they ask us to accept it,
0:41:43 > 0:41:47rather than asking us at the start what we would like to see because
0:41:47 > 0:41:51there is tension between the fact that they want to centralise things
0:41:51 > 0:41:55and the fact that we, as local people, want our services close by.
0:41:55 > 0:42:01- The money is not there. - There should be an open dialogue.
0:42:01 > 0:42:06The first thing they do wrong is they don't talk to people,
0:42:06 > 0:42:10they don't tell anyone what's going on, they don't consult.
0:42:13 > 0:42:19If cutting beds at Tregaron down to 12 is something administrative,
0:42:19 > 0:42:24it doesn't matter. The impact is like a real policy
0:42:24 > 0:42:29and they have to be more accountable for the changes they make.
0:42:29 > 0:42:34We know what happens at Bronglais. The services are being run down.
0:42:34 > 0:42:39There are no new jobs coming in to replace the people
0:42:39 > 0:42:43who have retired at various Bronglais departments.
0:42:43 > 0:42:44At the end of the day,
0:42:44 > 0:42:49we'll have mid Wales with no general hospital and the north corridor
0:42:49 > 0:42:54with a general hospital and the south corridor.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57We, in rural areas, will have to live in a situation where
0:42:57 > 0:43:02we will have to travel at least two hours door to door for surgery
0:43:02 > 0:43:05and that is a disgrace.
0:43:07 > 0:43:12Paul, a final word on this. Money is short. Reform is needed.
0:43:12 > 0:43:15I full agree with the audience.
0:43:15 > 0:43:20There are the same problems in Pembrokeshire.
0:43:20 > 0:43:28- Expertise round the corner, those days have gone.- We've lost services.
0:43:28 > 0:43:31What is important is that the local health board
0:43:31 > 0:43:35consults with local people because we have the same problem.
0:43:35 > 0:43:40When we have public meetings in Pembrokeshire,
0:43:40 > 0:43:44there are no representatives from the local health board present.
0:43:44 > 0:43:46It is important they consult and tell us what they're going to do.
0:43:46 > 0:43:48And the government also has a responsibility.
0:43:48 > 0:43:51The Health Minister could tell the local health boards
0:43:51 > 0:43:53they must consult with the public.
0:43:53 > 0:43:59That is certainly the message from Pontrhydfendigaid, more consultation.
0:43:59 > 0:44:01We have a couple more subjects to discuss.
0:44:01 > 0:44:03Join us again in a couple of minutes.
0:44:19 > 0:44:21Welcome back.
0:44:21 > 0:44:24I hope you're enjoying the first programme of the new series.
0:44:24 > 0:44:31Let's move on to our next question. This one comes from Selwyn Jones.
0:44:31 > 0:44:38The last two National Eisteddfods have made a financial loss.
0:44:38 > 0:44:42How long can the current costly situation continue
0:44:42 > 0:44:45with the Eisteddfod moving from site to site?
0:44:45 > 0:44:49Thank you. The last two National Eisteddfods have made a loss.
0:44:49 > 0:44:53How long can the current situation continue with the festival
0:44:53 > 0:44:56moving from site to site? You can answer your own question, Selwyn.
0:44:56 > 0:45:01I love seeing the Eisteddfod moving locations because I've seen
0:45:01 > 0:45:07a number of areas I have not seen before, but we need to make savings.
0:45:07 > 0:45:13I was thinking, seeing as there is a recession,
0:45:13 > 0:45:19and we don't want to lose the National Eisteddfod,
0:45:19 > 0:45:23why don't we have it at one location for the next three years,
0:45:23 > 0:45:27to see if the situation improves?
0:45:27 > 0:45:30- The same place for three years. - The same place for three years.
0:45:30 > 0:45:38- And I want to throw it out there, an invitation.- I can see what's coming.
0:45:41 > 0:45:48Hang on now. What about the Welsh National Pavilion?
0:45:48 > 0:45:50We are here tonight in Pontrhydfendigaid.
0:45:50 > 0:45:57Everyone is welcome, from the Archdruid to the man on the street.
0:46:04 > 0:46:09They're all listening. That was quite a speech. Elin, briefly?
0:46:09 > 0:46:16I think one of the special things about the National Eisteddfod
0:46:16 > 0:46:20is that it travels around and I have enjoyed visiting different
0:46:20 > 0:46:22parts of Wales, as a result.
0:46:22 > 0:46:26I think one of the problems we have with the National Eisteddfod
0:46:26 > 0:46:29is that there is no corresponding event in England or the UK.
0:46:29 > 0:46:33So we don't know exactly what should be done.
0:46:34 > 0:46:38We don't know how much public money should be invested.
0:46:38 > 0:46:43- We know how much an opera costs. - The Government should give more?
0:46:43 > 0:46:48Well, with the tough economic situation, VAT is increasing,
0:46:48 > 0:46:52it's time for us to ensure that our government in Wales
0:46:52 > 0:46:56provides money for important cultural things.
0:46:56 > 0:46:59Paul, important things, a contribution from Cardiff Bay?
0:46:59 > 0:47:03If I may answer the question, personally,
0:47:03 > 0:47:07I'd like to see the Eisteddfod being held in different locations.
0:47:07 > 0:47:10I think it's important to our culture and heritage.
0:47:10 > 0:47:12Even during these tough times?
0:47:12 > 0:47:17It's important that the Eisteddfod visits English speaking areas
0:47:17 > 0:47:19to attract non-Welsh speakers. They have done that successfully.
0:47:19 > 0:47:22- Despite the losses? - I'm not one of the organisers.
0:47:22 > 0:47:24I understand they are making a loss and maybe
0:47:24 > 0:47:29they will have to look at different ways of holding the Eisteddfod.
0:47:29 > 0:47:33- It's important it travels around Wales.- Briefly, Nia?
0:47:33 > 0:47:38It's important we keep it and that it can move,
0:47:38 > 0:47:40but we need to consider things such as stadiums.
0:47:40 > 0:47:44This place, this pavilion, it's wonderful. Universities.
0:47:44 > 0:47:48We must think of locations that are suitable where we can do it,
0:47:48 > 0:47:50instead of paying money to move the tent.
0:47:50 > 0:47:54- The money can be spent on other things.- You have 20 seconds, Ifan.
0:47:54 > 0:48:00I thought I had a good idea, but Selwyn got there before me.
0:48:00 > 0:48:04It's a good thing that it changes location.
0:48:04 > 0:48:08The Eisteddfod is more than just a pavilion.
0:48:08 > 0:48:10It takes Welsh culture to places
0:48:10 > 0:48:13that would not otherwise experience it.
0:48:13 > 0:48:17- But it comes down to money. - Thank you for your contributions.
0:48:17 > 0:48:22Believe it or not, it's the end of the programme. The time has flown.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25It's been wonderful here in Pontrhydfendigaid.
0:48:25 > 0:48:29Next week, we'll be in Rhyl. I hope you can join us.
0:48:29 > 0:48:31But for now, goodbye.