0:00:00 > 0:00:03singer and former president of Plaid Cymru, Dafydd Iwan,
0:00:03 > 0:00:07Elinor Gwynn, an official at the Countryside Council for Wales,
0:00:07 > 0:00:10and the Conservative MP for Montgomeryshire, Glyn Davies.
0:00:10 > 0:00:12Please give them a warm welcome.
0:00:12 > 0:00:14APPLAUSE
0:00:22 > 0:00:27Good evening and welcome to this week's edition of Pawb a'i Farn.
0:00:27 > 0:00:31As we are every year, we've been drawn back to northern Powys
0:00:31 > 0:00:34by the warm welcome of Montgomeryshire.
0:00:34 > 0:00:39They say the welcome refers to the people as well as the landscape.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41We'll see how welcoming they are
0:00:41 > 0:00:45during the next hour at Welshpool Leisure Centre.
0:00:45 > 0:00:50I suspect wind energy will get their blood flowing.
0:00:50 > 0:00:52Don't forget our usual addresses.
0:00:52 > 0:00:56And if you want to come to the last programme in the series,
0:00:56 > 0:00:59we'll be in Pwllheli next Thursday.
0:00:59 > 0:01:06Our first question here in Welshpool comes from Councillor Aled Davies.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10What hope does the new leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood, have
0:01:10 > 0:01:14of securing more support for the party?
0:01:14 > 0:01:17A timely question from Councillor Aled Davies.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20The Tory councillor, Aled Davies.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23What hope does the new leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood, have
0:01:23 > 0:01:27of securing more support for the party?
0:01:27 > 0:01:32I think I'll start with the former president, Dafydd Iwan, if I may?
0:01:32 > 0:01:34Every hope in the world, Dewi.
0:01:34 > 0:01:40I'd like to congratulate Leanne on a significant victory.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44That's significant. And I wish her well.
0:01:44 > 0:01:47I announced my support for Leanne.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50But the decision was very tight.
0:01:50 > 0:01:55I could see that every candidate had different strengths.
0:01:55 > 0:01:58That's what made the race so interesting.
0:01:58 > 0:02:01They had something different to offer. They had weaknesses too.
0:02:01 > 0:02:08I'm glad Leanne won because I think, as the campaign went on,
0:02:08 > 0:02:13we saw an increase in the support for her
0:02:13 > 0:02:18because the party membership realise that it's time to change gear.
0:02:18 > 0:02:22We've had a period of leadership under Ieuan,
0:02:22 > 0:02:25and I don't mean this as a criticism,
0:02:25 > 0:02:27but we were just in safe hands.
0:02:27 > 0:02:33I think the members feel it's time for us to start taking more risks.
0:02:33 > 0:02:39We're talking about stabilising a government for Wales,
0:02:39 > 0:02:43moving towards independence, and that means taking risks.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45So electing Leanne Wood is taking a risk?
0:02:45 > 0:02:48There's an element of risk
0:02:48 > 0:02:51and she'll put her foot in it now and again
0:02:51 > 0:02:55but we have to give out a clear message
0:02:55 > 0:02:58and challenge the British system.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01After all, we're breaking down the British system
0:03:01 > 0:03:03and creating a better one.
0:03:03 > 0:03:08Leanne will be a good team leader. That's what she'll be.
0:03:08 > 0:03:12I'll come back to you. Glyn Davies, what do you make of the choice?
0:03:12 > 0:03:17It's interesting and I don't know how to answer the question.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20It's too early to tell whether she'll gain more support
0:03:20 > 0:03:23but I have to congratulate Leanne.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27I know Leanne. I worked with her at the Assembly.
0:03:27 > 0:03:32I didn't expect her to win, but I think she'll change things.
0:03:32 > 0:03:37I think she'll change the leadership and the party.
0:03:37 > 0:03:39That's what she wants to do.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42She'll also change the way people campaign.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45What has she put into this?
0:03:45 > 0:03:47She has inspired young people,
0:03:47 > 0:03:50attracted young people back to Plaid Cymru.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54People will use Twitter and use blogs in the future
0:03:54 > 0:03:56when they are campaigning.
0:03:56 > 0:04:01She certainly won't want to work with your party.
0:04:01 > 0:04:07Well, I must say, the possibility of a coalition government existing
0:04:07 > 0:04:11between the Tories and Plaid Cymru is a lot less likely than it was.
0:04:11 > 0:04:15Yes, it's over. Rhys Williams?
0:04:15 > 0:04:18I agree with Glyn. It's a very interesting choice.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21- But...- Are you worried about it, as a unionist?
0:04:21 > 0:04:25I'm not sure if I'm worried because one thing that is true,
0:04:25 > 0:04:29and Dafydd Iwan might disagree,
0:04:29 > 0:04:33but Leanne has never won an election
0:04:33 > 0:04:36apart from the one within Plaid Cymru.
0:04:36 > 0:04:42She's a regional Assembly Member, there's nothing wrong with that.
0:04:42 > 0:04:45But that's an election, Rhys.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48Dafydd Elis-Thomas said they're all equal
0:04:48 > 0:04:52but Ieuan Wyn was a constituency Member,
0:04:52 > 0:04:55Elin Jones was constituency Member
0:04:55 > 0:05:02and, for the first time, Plaid Cymru has elected someone who hasn't won an election.
0:05:02 > 0:05:07I think Leanne Wood is very interesting
0:05:07 > 0:05:11and I admire her on many levels.
0:05:11 > 0:05:19But I question whether she has support within her own party.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22- You can answer that, Dafydd. - The result proves she has.
0:05:22 > 0:05:24Well, among people like you,
0:05:24 > 0:05:30who work hard and are outspoken.
0:05:30 > 0:05:36But for the quite people who vote every year...
0:05:36 > 0:05:40Is she a leader your party will worry about
0:05:40 > 0:05:43because her stronghold is in the Valleys,
0:05:43 > 0:05:46where she could attract Labour votes?
0:05:46 > 0:05:49But she's never won an election in the Valleys.
0:05:49 > 0:05:56That's an ambiguous point, to be fair. She was elected as leader.
0:05:56 > 0:05:57Does that worry you?
0:05:57 > 0:06:00I think that's an important point.
0:06:00 > 0:06:06The Labour Party introduced this dual system of electing Members
0:06:06 > 0:06:09and there's no need talk about a first class Member
0:06:09 > 0:06:11and a second class.
0:06:11 > 0:06:17She won an election through the proportional system.
0:06:17 > 0:06:23She represents people. And she won this election with a big majority.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27If we took a photo of her out on the streets of Welshpool,
0:06:27 > 0:06:29how many people would recognise her?
0:06:29 > 0:06:32Would they say, "Who is she?"
0:06:32 > 0:06:38The press and the media have given this race more coverage
0:06:38 > 0:06:41than anything else the party has done for many years.
0:06:41 > 0:06:46You have to ask why. I think Leanne made it interesting and different.
0:06:46 > 0:06:52As Glyn mentioned, she has attracted young members.
0:06:52 > 0:06:57I know that some of my children joined the party for the first time
0:06:57 > 0:07:02because Twitter and Facebook drew them in to the dialogue.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05Some of the ideas captured their imagination.
0:07:05 > 0:07:07Let's hear from Elinor Gwynn.
0:07:07 > 0:07:12In terms of the question, can Leanne secure more support,
0:07:12 > 0:07:17I would say so, as the other two candidates would have.
0:07:17 > 0:07:19But it's also a challenge.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22I think the race itself caused excitement
0:07:22 > 0:07:27and that will benefit the party in terms of attracting new members.
0:07:27 > 0:07:35Maybe people are looking for something different and radical.
0:07:35 > 0:07:37And maybe the excitement in Scotland
0:07:37 > 0:07:42has made people want the innovative approach.
0:07:42 > 0:07:47But it will be a challenge to combine her radicalism
0:07:47 > 0:07:53with a conservatism which is innate in us in Wales.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57And to combine radicalism and pragmatism.
0:07:57 > 0:08:01But people have rightly said that she communicates well.
0:08:01 > 0:08:06I think she's managed to put across her vision for Plaid Cymru.
0:08:06 > 0:08:10But you wouldn't compare her with Alex Salmond, would you?
0:08:10 > 0:08:12In terms of communication?
0:08:12 > 0:08:13Leadership.
0:08:13 > 0:08:18Well, I think communication is very important in a leader
0:08:18 > 0:08:22and she has the ability, as somebody said on the radio,
0:08:22 > 0:08:24she listens very well.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28I've also seen her ask penetrating questions.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31Let's go to the audience. I will come back to you.
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Aled, you asked the question.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37I think Leanne will move the party to the left.
0:08:37 > 0:08:41In this part of the world, Montgomeryshire,
0:08:41 > 0:08:45members of the party are natural Conservatives.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48I'm sure that's good news for Glyn.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53Do you see that as good news, Glyn?
0:08:53 > 0:08:55I don't think today is the day to say that.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57You're being very respectful.
0:08:57 > 0:09:03Gwenllian Davies, you used to be chief executive of Plaid Cymru.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06What do you make of this choice?
0:09:06 > 0:09:10It's a bold choice and I think it will inspire
0:09:10 > 0:09:14a new generation of nationalists across Wales.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18Leanne is the sort of person we can relate to.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21I can assure Aled and others
0:09:21 > 0:09:25that many farmers in Montgomeryshire voted for Leanne.
0:09:25 > 0:09:29She's the type of character who can unite the nation.
0:09:29 > 0:09:34Will there be room for the nationalist Tories Aled referred to
0:09:34 > 0:09:38in this party, which will be to the left of Labour?
0:09:38 > 0:09:43Don't forget that Leanne won 57% of the vote within the party
0:09:43 > 0:09:48so she must have secured support from communities across Wales,
0:09:48 > 0:09:53from Arfon to Dwyfor Meirionnydd to Ceredigion to Dyfed and so on.
0:09:53 > 0:09:57I think she is the sort of person who will unite the nation
0:09:57 > 0:10:02and offer a clear vision for independence and give us confidence.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05Aled, come back to that.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07I'm not really sure.
0:10:07 > 0:10:12I can see that Leanne will cause problems for Labour.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16She will be after the same votes as Labour.
0:10:16 > 0:10:21But I don't think she'll get much traction in this part of the world.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23Robin Benbo, what do you think?
0:10:23 > 0:10:25When I saw that she'd won,
0:10:25 > 0:10:28I went on Wikipedia to see who Leanne Wood was.
0:10:28 > 0:10:31I think many will feel the same.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34If you're a member of the party, you'll know,
0:10:34 > 0:10:39but the general public won't know.
0:10:39 > 0:10:41But she hasn't started. She needs a chance.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45It's the same with the people down at the Assembly.
0:10:45 > 0:10:48Who are these people? We don't hear about them in Mid Wales.
0:10:48 > 0:10:55And they don't hear... We can go and get out voices heard
0:10:55 > 0:10:58but there's not much communication between the Assembly
0:10:58 > 0:11:00and the general public.
0:11:00 > 0:11:02Myfanwy Alexander?
0:11:02 > 0:11:08One of Leanne's strengths is the link she has with her communities.
0:11:08 > 0:11:12I think it would benefit members of all parties
0:11:12 > 0:11:18to resurrect that link between local communities and policies.
0:11:18 > 0:11:23I think Leanne is the right person to take that forward.
0:11:23 > 0:11:27What about you? Can we have the microphone?
0:11:27 > 0:11:29I think the Tories are worried.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33Glyn has changed his tie due to what's happened(!)
0:11:33 > 0:11:35LAUGHTER
0:11:36 > 0:11:39- Yes, it's...- Prince of Wales.
0:11:39 > 0:11:41I can't see it properly.
0:11:41 > 0:11:43Prince of Wales feathers.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46- DAFYDD:- I don't think that would appeal to Leanne(!)
0:11:46 > 0:11:48LAUGHTER
0:11:48 > 0:11:50Rhys Williams? Come back on this.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52I think...
0:11:52 > 0:11:57I don't want to sound bitter or like an old Labour member.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00I think it's an interesting choice
0:12:00 > 0:12:04and I agree that it will cause problems for Labour
0:12:04 > 0:12:08because she will attract votes from the left.
0:12:08 > 0:12:13But I can see, looking in from the outside,
0:12:13 > 0:12:16I can see problems for Plaid Cymru.
0:12:16 > 0:12:20It's interesting that Dafydd Iwan supported Leanne Wood
0:12:20 > 0:12:24because I wonder what the majority of member
0:12:24 > 0:12:29in Arfon or Anglesey will think.
0:12:29 > 0:12:34- Will they support Leanne?- That's what happened during the campaign.
0:12:34 > 0:12:38I was surprised how strong the support was from people
0:12:38 > 0:12:43who didn't know her well but thought she offered something different.
0:12:43 > 0:12:46To put it in a wider context,
0:12:46 > 0:12:51people are very frustrated these days and they are frightened
0:12:51 > 0:12:53because of two things.
0:12:53 > 0:12:56The threat of climate change in the long-term
0:12:56 > 0:12:59because they know that is starting to happen.
0:12:59 > 0:13:02And, secondly, the failure of capitalism.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05What happened in 2008, and the continuing crisis.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08We have to look for something different.
0:13:08 > 0:13:12Did you support her because she's more of a protest politician?
0:13:12 > 0:13:17There's no purpose to a protest politician. We all protest.
0:13:17 > 0:13:19And we're all conservative sometimes.
0:13:19 > 0:13:25What's important is that we look for different answers
0:13:25 > 0:13:27to the world's problems
0:13:27 > 0:13:33and this community element, some call it fantasy,
0:13:33 > 0:13:36is going to be important in the future.
0:13:36 > 0:13:37Glyn?
0:13:37 > 0:13:41Robin Benbo said that people haven't heard of Leanne Wood
0:13:41 > 0:13:43and that's true.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46Dafydd El has been the president since...
0:13:46 > 0:13:47- The beginning.- ..decades.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50And Elin Jones has been a Minister.
0:13:50 > 0:13:56Everyone in rural Wales knows Elin Jones and Dafydd El,
0:13:56 > 0:14:01but they don't know Leanne Wood. She's new, that's why.
0:14:01 > 0:14:04- But that's why she appeals to some people.- We can leave it there.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07Thanks to the panel and the audience.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10Our next subject could be the most controversial.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14Join us again in Welshpool in around two minutes.
0:14:29 > 0:14:34Welcome back. We're in Welshpool for this week's edition of Pawb a'i Farn.
0:14:34 > 0:14:39Let's move on to our second question which comes from Gwyn Jones.
0:14:39 > 0:14:43While the rest of the world is producing more carbon each year,
0:14:43 > 0:14:46is it fair that a small area like this
0:14:46 > 0:14:49is overrun by windfarms and thousands of pylons?
0:14:49 > 0:14:51Thanks, Gwyn.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54Is it fair that a small area like this
0:14:54 > 0:14:59is overrun by windfarms, pylons and turbines?
0:14:59 > 0:15:01What do you make of this issue, Rhys?
0:15:01 > 0:15:06It would be easy to give a popular answer but I would feel uneasy
0:15:06 > 0:15:11because I don't understand the definition of "fair" in the question.
0:15:11 > 0:15:17I was born and raised in a house which faced a coal mine.
0:15:17 > 0:15:22Every morning, when I woke up, I saw the coal mine.
0:15:22 > 0:15:26My grandfather was killed in that coal mine
0:15:26 > 0:15:2920 years before I was born.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33Now, I don't know how many people have been killed
0:15:33 > 0:15:34by these wind turbines.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38I don't know how effective they are.
0:15:38 > 0:15:44But I do know that it's relatively easy to get rid of turbines.
0:15:44 > 0:15:50If you go back to the village where I was born and raised,
0:15:50 > 0:15:53you wouldn't know a coal mine had been there.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55Things have changed.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59There's no work, of course, but there's no coal mine either.
0:15:59 > 0:16:01When I was a child,
0:16:01 > 0:16:06I got to know places like Trefeglwys and Llanidloes because I knew people
0:16:06 > 0:16:08who lived in the village
0:16:08 > 0:16:14and had come from the countryside to work in the coal mine.
0:16:14 > 0:16:19I would go back to Trefeglwys and Llanidloes to see those places.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22I hope we're all familiar
0:16:22 > 0:16:26with novels by T. Rowland Hughes - William Jones.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28In answer to the question,
0:16:28 > 0:16:32you think it's fair that these turbines are built in Powys.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36- I'm not sure whether "fair" is the word.- Use a better word.
0:16:36 > 0:16:43I may not be politically correct these days
0:16:43 > 0:16:45but it's different.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48But you're saying everyone has to make a contribution
0:16:48 > 0:16:51and that could mean a wind turbine in Powys.
0:16:51 > 0:16:56Talking about making a contribution, if we could turn back the clock,
0:16:56 > 0:17:00the miners in South Wales and quarrymen in North Wales,
0:17:00 > 0:17:05was it fair that they had to live the way they did? No.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08- Glyn Davies?- I think it's unfair.
0:17:08 > 0:17:13I think the majority of people who live here think it's unfair as well.
0:17:13 > 0:17:19I am going to do everything in my power
0:17:19 > 0:17:24to stop windfarms and pylons being built.
0:17:24 > 0:17:28The development companies want to come to the area
0:17:28 > 0:17:30but I want to stop them.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33I work in Westminster and a lot of local people
0:17:33 > 0:17:35have told me they want it stopped.
0:17:35 > 0:17:39I do lay some of the blame on the Government.
0:17:39 > 0:17:43I'm part of the Westminster Government, in the coalition.
0:17:43 > 0:17:49I think it puts too much money towards supporting windfarms.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52And I also blame the Assembly Government.
0:17:52 > 0:17:59They decided to locate windfarms and pylons in Mid Wales.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03But why not? What is unfair about that?
0:18:03 > 0:18:06What is unfair?
0:18:06 > 0:18:11It's unfair because it destroys the landscape.
0:18:11 > 0:18:15- It destroys... - Does the fact this happened...
0:18:15 > 0:18:19Excuse me. What happened in the area where Rhys was raised,
0:18:19 > 0:18:22you don't see that as an argument?
0:18:22 > 0:18:26I hope we've learned something.
0:18:26 > 0:18:29I know what happened. No-one would do that now.
0:18:29 > 0:18:33I know it was a mistake
0:18:33 > 0:18:38when the company came in and damaged South Wales.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41I understand what Rhys is saying.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44No-one wants that to happen. We've learned lessons.
0:18:44 > 0:18:48If someone comes in like the Mid Wales Connection,
0:18:48 > 0:18:51there are too many turbines and pylons,
0:18:51 > 0:18:57and the people of Montgomeryshire and Mid Wales blame the Government.
0:18:57 > 0:19:00Let's find out if that's what people think.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02Gwyn, you asked the question.
0:19:02 > 0:19:06I think it's ineffective in the face of global warming.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09What are a few pylons here going to do?
0:19:09 > 0:19:12You can almost negate it.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14They're asking us to pay.
0:19:14 > 0:19:18Is that a reason not to do it? They say, do the little things.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20- That's how we reach... - But this is to small.
0:19:20 > 0:19:25Countries like China are producing one...
0:19:25 > 0:19:30they're producing energy from coal-fired power stations every week.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32What difference is this going to make?
0:19:32 > 0:19:35But does that mean we shouldn't do anything?
0:19:35 > 0:19:38We need to look at ways...
0:19:38 > 0:19:43No emphasis is placed on saving energy.
0:19:43 > 0:19:46We're just continually using more.
0:19:46 > 0:19:54- Yes?- I feel that there are too many in one place.
0:19:54 > 0:20:01If the whole of Wales took a little bit here, a little bit there...
0:20:01 > 0:20:07I put to you the argument that it's already happened in many parts of Wales.
0:20:07 > 0:20:13Look at Anglesey, parts of Ceredigion, the North Wales coast.
0:20:13 > 0:20:17I drive along the A470 fairly often, up through Trawsfynydd,
0:20:17 > 0:20:22up to the north and there are already pylons there.
0:20:22 > 0:20:28The nuclear power station has been at Trawsfynydd for a long time.
0:20:28 > 0:20:33Why not put them up there? If there were some there, some in North Wales,
0:20:33 > 0:20:40- that's what I see as being unfair. They all want to come here. - There are other hands being raised.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43Right at the back.
0:20:43 > 0:20:47The difference with the coal mines in the south
0:20:47 > 0:20:51and the windfarms here is that the mines created jobs.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54There are no jobs here.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Yes. Thank you very much. Yes?
0:20:58 > 0:21:03This area, there are already 250 wind turbines here.
0:21:03 > 0:21:10They're hoping to add another 600. 40% of Mid Wales will be affected.
0:21:10 > 0:21:16The energy created is around 11% of the power station in Pembrokeshire.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19I live in the village of Abermule.
0:21:19 > 0:21:25This may mean building a hub the size of 13 football pitches,
0:21:25 > 0:21:30not next to the village, but in the village.
0:21:30 > 0:21:35There will be seven lines coming in
0:21:35 > 0:21:39and one line going out.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42There is no sense in that.
0:21:42 > 0:21:46We do not deserve this at all.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48Right. Come back in.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52I have to give the other viewpoint
0:21:52 > 0:21:59because I have to ask myself the question - thinking about the children and the future,
0:21:59 > 0:22:04we must take responsibility for energy. I agree with Gwyn.
0:22:04 > 0:22:08The question is how we can save energy so we use less.
0:22:08 > 0:22:14I don't think pointing the finger at other countries is the answer.
0:22:14 > 0:22:20It's our industry and our industrial history that is responsible.
0:22:20 > 0:22:24China is also leading the way in developing solar energy.
0:22:24 > 0:22:29They're leading the world in research and technology.
0:22:29 > 0:22:35So I'm not happy with pointing the finger at other parts of the world.
0:22:35 > 0:22:38If we want to use electricity,
0:22:38 > 0:22:43we have to find an answer regarding how we produce it.
0:22:43 > 0:22:47It's not good enough to just say, "It can go on the M62."
0:22:47 > 0:22:50So are you prepared to see the pylons
0:22:50 > 0:22:54and the turbines coming to your back garden?
0:22:54 > 0:22:56We've got the technology.
0:22:56 > 0:23:01Our society has the technology to put lines underground.
0:23:01 > 0:23:07It's expensive, but it's possible. I think that's the way forward.
0:23:07 > 0:23:10Of course it would affect any area.
0:23:10 > 0:23:13But I want to be able to say to my children,
0:23:13 > 0:23:16"We must take responsibility."
0:23:16 > 0:23:19So you've made your contribution.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22The question is, how do you put the turbine underground?
0:23:22 > 0:23:26- Well, come back in on that. - You can't put a turbine underground.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29- But you're happy to see them.- I think there is an important question...
0:23:29 > 0:23:33If 600 of them come to Montgomery, you're happy about that?
0:23:33 > 0:23:37I'd like to see how they are distributed. I think there is a question of fairness,
0:23:37 > 0:23:40if they are all in one place, but you're right.
0:23:40 > 0:23:44They're all over the country. If you drive through France, you see them everywhere.
0:23:44 > 0:23:51- They make an important contribution. - Thank you very much. Robin?- But I think it does come down to fairness.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54All parts of Wales should have a target,
0:23:54 > 0:23:58how much energy they produce and how much they can save.
0:23:58 > 0:24:03The other question is if you use the money from the Government
0:24:03 > 0:24:07for each turbine and give that to each household to save money,
0:24:07 > 0:24:12I'm sure we could save much more energy using the money correctly,
0:24:12 > 0:24:18instead of putting it in the pocket of big business. That's where this is going.
0:24:18 > 0:24:23- Yes?- I wouldn't like to leave it to the next generation,
0:24:23 > 0:24:27seeing these turbines, concrete, the size of Olympic swimming pools,
0:24:27 > 0:24:31clearing the turbine and the concrete is left there.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34- Yes, come back in? - It's money that is driving this.
0:24:34 > 0:24:39These companies can make a lot of money out of this.
0:24:39 > 0:24:42The companies that organise these things,
0:24:42 > 0:24:45they're not doing it for themselves,
0:24:45 > 0:24:49they're not doing it to be green, they're making money out of it.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52What do you make of that woman's point?
0:24:52 > 0:24:57We have to take responsibility, we have to produce electricity.
0:24:57 > 0:25:02- Use less.- It's a worldwide debate. It's a worldwide problem.
0:25:02 > 0:25:07We can't solve it by building turbines in rural areas.
0:25:07 > 0:25:10But everyone needs to make a contribution.
0:25:10 > 0:25:17But the contribution is too small. The world's governments need to make a contribution
0:25:17 > 0:25:21and take the power out of the hands of these fuel companies.
0:25:21 > 0:25:26There was a hand up here. Right in the front.
0:25:26 > 0:25:32From what I've read, how effective are these wind turbines?
0:25:32 > 0:25:38In Wales, we have plenty of water and we're not using water.
0:25:38 > 0:25:44All of these towns used the water years ago.
0:25:44 > 0:25:47If you ask for something different,
0:25:47 > 0:25:52I'd say water is far more effective than wind.
0:25:52 > 0:25:56- But we don't use water.- I'll come back to the audience shortly.
0:25:56 > 0:26:02Elinor, are you going to speak on behalf of the countryside council?
0:26:02 > 0:26:05As a body, we do quite a lot of work in this field.
0:26:05 > 0:26:10We believe that we must deal with this strategically
0:26:10 > 0:26:16because all methods of creating energy affect the environment
0:26:16 > 0:26:18and people and society.
0:26:18 > 0:26:22But strategically, we believe we need to look
0:26:22 > 0:26:26at a number of things, looking at ways of controlling
0:26:26 > 0:26:31the demand for energy, improving effectiveness,
0:26:31 > 0:26:38developing different technology for renewable energy and reducing pollution.
0:26:38 > 0:26:42But as far as this question specifically, is it fair that...?
0:26:42 > 0:26:47The wording is strong. A small area like this is overrun.
0:26:47 > 0:26:51With the plan announced by the Government for transforming
0:26:51 > 0:26:55the economy of Wales and making it a carbon neutral economy,
0:26:55 > 0:27:01there is no escaping the development of such technology, but I would add
0:27:01 > 0:27:05to what has been said already, that we must also look at saving energy.
0:27:05 > 0:27:08As a body, we accept...
0:27:08 > 0:27:14But in principle, you do not oppose turbines on the hills of Montgomery?
0:27:14 > 0:27:19Our role as a body is to look at the effect
0:27:19 > 0:27:23of any development on the natural environment.
0:27:23 > 0:27:28That is our role is to look at the effect of these developments
0:27:28 > 0:27:34and try and ensure that they have as little effect as possible.
0:27:34 > 0:27:39There are things to consider with the development of wind farms.
0:27:39 > 0:27:44It's a matter of ensuring that the quality of the plans put forward
0:27:44 > 0:27:49are as sensitive as possible to the environment.
0:27:49 > 0:27:53Right. Thank you. Dafydd Iwan, where do Plaid Cymru stand on this?
0:27:53 > 0:27:58I think that all of us in this room agree about the need
0:27:58 > 0:28:00to produce renewable energy.
0:28:00 > 0:28:06We can't argue with the fact that the threat of climate change is a serious matter.
0:28:06 > 0:28:12But I disagree and I know that Gwyn is worried about the environment
0:28:12 > 0:28:19and nature, but this argument that it is such a big problem that we cannot have an effect...
0:28:19 > 0:28:23Does switching off a light help save the planet?
0:28:23 > 0:28:26Yes, as long as we all do it.
0:28:26 > 0:28:30I agree that the problem regarding this question is technical note
0:28:30 > 0:28:35that says turbines only need to be built in certain areas.
0:28:35 > 0:28:41That's what causes the problem. Too many turbines in one area.
0:28:41 > 0:28:44Now, we need to look at that technical note.
0:28:44 > 0:28:51- Isn't it something that should be devolved?- Well, of course it needs to be devolved.
0:28:51 > 0:28:55- Carwyn Jones believes that. - Glyn Davies, devolving it?
0:28:55 > 0:29:02- Shouldn't these decisions be made in Cardiff?- I had some sympathy, but after hearing Carwyn Jones
0:29:02 > 0:29:06and seeing Tan 8, after hearing Carwyn Jones' policy,
0:29:06 > 0:29:10I don't want to give the Assembly more power on this matter.
0:29:10 > 0:29:15- The problem is nuclear power stations...- But isn't the Assembly more likely to reflect
0:29:15 > 0:29:19the opinions of the people of Montgomery than Westminster?
0:29:19 > 0:29:26It's not Westminster. You have a body of commissioners deciding on large energy plans.
0:29:26 > 0:29:31That's the danger. We need planning decisions being made locally.
0:29:31 > 0:29:33But the thing is there is opposition.
0:29:33 > 0:29:36Whatever our views on climate change,
0:29:36 > 0:29:40there is opposition to biomass, hydro energy.
0:29:40 > 0:29:45I agree that water is our main source of energy in Wales.
0:29:45 > 0:29:53People say that turbines on the Llandudno coast would affect tourism. It doesn't.
0:29:53 > 0:29:59- So it won't affect tourism in Montgomery.- No. Don't exaggerate when making your argument.
0:29:59 > 0:30:05You have a point regarding Tan 8. It needs to be looked at. The pylons, the cables should go underground.
0:30:05 > 0:30:08If that is too expensive, it needs looking at.
0:30:08 > 0:30:12- We've had pylons in Snowdonia for decades.- Exactly.
0:30:12 > 0:30:16In Dinorwig, we insisted that the cables were put underground.
0:30:16 > 0:30:20If that makes this plan too expensive, then oppose it.
0:30:20 > 0:30:26- Let's get Rhys's views. - I have an open mind on this.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29I'm willing to be persuaded.
0:30:29 > 0:30:35Abermule was mentioned, he said it won't just be around Abermule,
0:30:35 > 0:30:40these wind turbines will be right in the middle of Abermule.
0:30:40 > 0:30:44I was listening and thinking, "Gosh, yes."
0:30:44 > 0:30:51But what Dafydd has been saying - in the sea, off the coast of Llandudno.
0:30:51 > 0:30:55People oppose it because of the coastal views.
0:30:55 > 0:30:58Well, you can't win.
0:30:58 > 0:31:00People come to Llandudno to see them!
0:31:02 > 0:31:08- So, briefly, a few opinions from the audience. Aled Davies? - It is so unfair.
0:31:08 > 0:31:12These wind turbines, it takes money out of the pockets
0:31:12 > 0:31:19of pensioners here tonight and gives it to these big firms.
0:31:19 > 0:31:24And the Government in Cardiff wrote Tan 8,
0:31:24 > 0:31:26with advice from the CCW.
0:31:26 > 0:31:30That is what has caused us to have all these turbines in Mid Wales.
0:31:30 > 0:31:34Right. You're making a few contributions tonight.
0:31:34 > 0:31:38This also affects the county of Shrewsbury.
0:31:38 > 0:31:42Were they consulted regarding this? I'd like to know.
0:31:42 > 0:31:45Well, I don't have the answer to that question.
0:31:45 > 0:31:49- I don't know if Glyn Davies knows. - One important principle for me
0:31:49 > 0:31:53is that all renewable energy schemes should benefit the local community.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56The local community should benefit
0:31:56 > 0:32:00and that is the principle to which Plaid Cymru adheres.
0:32:00 > 0:32:04Communities should aim to be self sustainable.
0:32:04 > 0:32:08And these plans should be for smaller turbines,
0:32:08 > 0:32:11benefiting the local community.
0:32:11 > 0:32:15It's fine to protest against them, but don't exaggerate.
0:32:15 > 0:32:17Don't compare it to Tryweryn.
0:32:17 > 0:32:21That comparison is not true. To begin with, it is not permanent.
0:32:21 > 0:32:26You're not losing land for ever. You're not losing communities.
0:32:26 > 0:32:30Local people don't want this. The audience doesn't want to see it.
0:32:30 > 0:32:33But the Government is saying, "You're having it!"
0:32:33 > 0:32:37That is what happened at Tryweryn and that's what is happening here.
0:32:37 > 0:32:40That is the reason these people will remember
0:32:40 > 0:32:44this in future in the same way that they remember Tryweryn.
0:32:44 > 0:32:50The Governments in Cardiff and in Westminster need to reconsider.
0:32:50 > 0:32:56But the important thing as regards Tryweryn was that politicians were against it.
0:32:56 > 0:33:01What we want is for decisions to be made here and that we listen to the voice of the people.
0:33:01 > 0:33:06Glyn didn't want that either. You didn't want the decision to be made in Cardiff.
0:33:06 > 0:33:08Glyn wants unification.
0:33:08 > 0:33:14The reason we're concentrating on Mid Wales
0:33:14 > 0:33:16is Carwyn Jones' policy,
0:33:16 > 0:33:20it's the policy of the Labour Government in the Assembly.
0:33:20 > 0:33:24I don't want to see it devolved further on that basis.
0:33:24 > 0:33:28- One more voice here. - I'm just worried that a lot of people in Cardiff are making
0:33:28 > 0:33:31important decisions that affect us in Mid Wales.
0:33:31 > 0:33:34They don't travel any further north than Brecon.
0:33:34 > 0:33:36They don't know our opinions here.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39Well, you've had an opportunity to voice them this evening.
0:33:39 > 0:33:47You've been down there protesting too. But I think we're going to end that debate there.
0:33:47 > 0:33:52We have to move on, or we won't discuss anything else tonight.
0:33:52 > 0:33:58Let's go to our third question. It's from Dilys Williams. Where are you? Right in front of me.
0:33:58 > 0:34:03S4C has introduced a number of new programmes over recent weeks.
0:34:03 > 0:34:07Isn't there a danger that a programme like Heno
0:34:07 > 0:34:11could lead to viewers being lost?
0:34:11 > 0:34:15There we are. No-one can accuse us of not discussing our own programmes.
0:34:15 > 0:34:19S4C have introduced a number of new programmes over recent weeks.
0:34:19 > 0:34:26Isn't there a danger that a programme like Heno could lead to viewers being lost?
0:34:26 > 0:34:30How many of you have seen Heno during the past fortnight?
0:34:30 > 0:34:34Hands up, come on. Yes? Around half of you, maybe?
0:34:34 > 0:34:37So what do you think? Your hand was up.
0:34:37 > 0:34:42Let's get the microphone over to you. What do you think?
0:34:42 > 0:34:47Well, I think the programme they had before was more acceptable.
0:34:47 > 0:34:50What's wrong with this one?
0:34:50 > 0:34:55The structure is... Well, it's all over the place.
0:34:55 > 0:34:58Dilys, you asked the question. What do you think?
0:34:58 > 0:35:00Well, from what I've seen,
0:35:00 > 0:35:02I feel there is too much in the studio,
0:35:02 > 0:35:04talking across each other,
0:35:04 > 0:35:08and no-one really understanding anything.
0:35:08 > 0:35:13I'm voicing the opinion of older people. I've been speaking to them.
0:35:13 > 0:35:19- What is that opinion?- Not happy at all. They preferred Wedi 7.
0:35:19 > 0:35:24Right. Behind, what do you make of the changes?
0:35:24 > 0:35:28- I've never seen Heno. - Well, there we are.
0:35:28 > 0:35:32That's an answer. Nothing more to say. Let's turn to the panel. Elinor?
0:35:32 > 0:35:37- Have you seen the programme? - I've seen it a couple of times.
0:35:37 > 0:35:41From what I've heard people saying over the past few days,
0:35:41 > 0:35:45it sounds like they have lost viewers already.
0:35:45 > 0:35:51As far as the changes, I'm not sure if the changes are based on research
0:35:51 > 0:35:56into what audiences want and what audiences they want to develop.
0:35:56 > 0:36:01- I'm not sure if...- Maybe they're looking for a new audience.
0:36:01 > 0:36:04Maybe, but are those audiences going to tune in?
0:36:04 > 0:36:07Are they using other media?
0:36:07 > 0:36:11I think on the whole, there have been some improvements.
0:36:11 > 0:36:16In think the increase in the number of hours of broadcasting
0:36:16 > 0:36:19for young children, Cyw, is to be welcomed.
0:36:19 > 0:36:23But I'm disappointed a programme like Wedi 3 has changed.
0:36:23 > 0:36:27I think that programme provided a service for people in their homes.
0:36:27 > 0:36:31There are other things to be considered,
0:36:31 > 0:36:33apart from viewing figures.
0:36:33 > 0:36:38I think especially for older people, as we look at our communities,
0:36:38 > 0:36:40where it is becoming more expensive to travel,
0:36:40 > 0:36:45there are fewer opportunities for people to socialise,
0:36:45 > 0:36:48the TV provides important company and brings people together.
0:36:48 > 0:36:54Aren't we a little conservative as an audience? We don't like change.
0:36:54 > 0:36:56We need to give it a chance to settle.
0:36:56 > 0:37:00Yes, of course we need change. And we need to experiment.
0:37:00 > 0:37:06But I was watching a few weeks ago and it was an English programme
0:37:06 > 0:37:11and they were looking at Gwasg Gee and the work being done there.
0:37:11 > 0:37:13It was so interesting.
0:37:13 > 0:37:16And then last night, I was watching Heno
0:37:16 > 0:37:21and someone was talking about a newspaper story about someone
0:37:21 > 0:37:26earning £25,000 to look at sex toys and Katherine Jenkins' boyfriend.
0:37:26 > 0:37:30What a difference. And we have so much happening in Wales.
0:37:30 > 0:37:34There is a difference between light programming
0:37:34 > 0:37:37and unimportant and empty programming.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40Is there a danger we are snobbish? Don't answer that.
0:37:40 > 0:37:45- We'll be here all night! Rhys Williams?- Well, I agree with Elinor.
0:37:45 > 0:37:5120 years ago, people would say we don't need TV in the afternoon.
0:37:51 > 0:37:56And now for the extremely good reasons mentioned by Elinor,
0:37:56 > 0:37:58people isolated in their homes,
0:37:58 > 0:38:03I think Wedi 3 provided an important social service.
0:38:03 > 0:38:07Yes. Dafydd Iwan? The channel was losing viewers.
0:38:07 > 0:38:10- Something needed to be done. - We're talking about money.
0:38:10 > 0:38:14I disagreed with some of Glyn's friends. Not Glyn, as it happens.
0:38:14 > 0:38:19They argued S4C's budget needed to be cut, in the same way as any other government department.
0:38:19 > 0:38:21S4C is not a government department.
0:38:21 > 0:38:24It's the only Welsh-medium TV service.
0:38:24 > 0:38:27It was being run on a comparatively small budget.
0:38:27 > 0:38:32- Compare the budget of S4C with the Doctor Who.- It doesn't sound small.
0:38:32 > 0:38:37- To the layman, £100 million doesn't sound small.- No, but to people producing programmes,
0:38:37 > 0:38:41the Welsh programmes are produced on a small budget.
0:38:41 > 0:38:46They've got rid of, and this is a mistake, Wedi 3 and Wedi 7.
0:38:46 > 0:38:49They had proved to be popular with the viewers.
0:38:49 > 0:38:56They've been forced to replace them with cheaper programmes.
0:38:56 > 0:38:59They've lost the ability to go out into the communities
0:38:59 > 0:39:06because it costs money. They fill the studio with people who are treating us, maybe, as stupid.
0:39:06 > 0:39:10- This is a danger in Welsh programming.- That's nasty.
0:39:10 > 0:39:15There is a danger on Welsh TV and radio of degrading the audience.
0:39:15 > 0:39:19Sometimes I switch from Radio Cymru to Radio Wales,
0:39:19 > 0:39:23and Radio Wales treats its audience with respect.
0:39:23 > 0:39:27It's as if we believe that the only way to be popular in Welsh
0:39:27 > 0:39:32is to be superficial and flippant or to discuss sex.
0:39:32 > 0:39:34Yes, you're welcome to applaud.
0:39:35 > 0:39:41- People want substance. That is not being a snob.- You need standards.
0:39:41 > 0:39:45Yes. And try not to poke fun at everything.
0:39:45 > 0:39:48There is a place for comedy
0:39:48 > 0:39:51and there is a place for information.
0:39:51 > 0:39:57But basically, you blame Glyn Davies' government for cutting the S4C budget.
0:39:57 > 0:40:01I blame the cuts because S4C is refusing to cut its hours,
0:40:01 > 0:40:04so it is producing more with less.
0:40:04 > 0:40:11Glyn, defend your government. The programmes are worse because they have less money.
0:40:11 > 0:40:15I don't think that is the reason for the changes.
0:40:15 > 0:40:20They have modernised. They have changed things.
0:40:20 > 0:40:26I think the money that goes to S4C is more than...
0:40:26 > 0:40:30A lot of people were complaining after the new coalition government
0:40:30 > 0:40:35came in and we had to make cuts. And now people are saying that...
0:40:35 > 0:40:37I have spoken to a lot of people
0:40:37 > 0:40:43and they say that £100 million was going every year and that is fine.
0:40:43 > 0:40:47No problem at all. But some people want to make a political point.
0:40:47 > 0:40:52We are doing a lot of work at Westminster, me and Guto Bebb and Alun Cairns,
0:40:52 > 0:40:56we were working hard with the government. And I got a result in the end.
0:40:56 > 0:41:02- People in Wales were phoning me and saying it's a good settlement. - You have support for the settlement.
0:41:02 > 0:41:07Yes, a lot of support. And no-one was complaining after we got that settlement.
0:41:07 > 0:41:11Some views from the audience? Gwenllian, your hand was up?
0:41:11 > 0:41:13The new format of Heno is maddening,
0:41:13 > 0:41:17but what is even more maddening is hearing a Westminster Government
0:41:17 > 0:41:22representative refusing to accept responsibility for the cuts to S4C.
0:41:22 > 0:41:27But he has done his best to ensure that the cuts were not as severe as expected, he claims.
0:41:27 > 0:41:30There is a strong economic argument.
0:41:30 > 0:41:33Look at what is happening in rural areas, such as Caernarfon,
0:41:33 > 0:41:38where cuts have led to job losses. There are linguistic considerations
0:41:38 > 0:41:41and also strong economic considerations.
0:41:41 > 0:41:47- One more voice.- I'm not sure about Heno. I haven't seen it.
0:41:47 > 0:41:50But I think they've extended Cyw's hours.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53I have children at school.
0:41:53 > 0:41:56I know maybe they shouldn't be watching TV after coming home,
0:41:56 > 0:42:01they should be playing football or something, but they like to switch on the TV.
0:42:01 > 0:42:05I try to urge them to watch Welsh things.
0:42:05 > 0:42:11I come in and they're watching CBBC. I ask them what's on S4C.
0:42:11 > 0:42:15But it's Cyw now. They're too old for that.
0:42:15 > 0:42:21So children of that age are missing out.
0:42:21 > 0:42:25It's hard to please everyone. That is the problem.
0:42:25 > 0:42:30- Can I say...?- No, sorry, Dafydd. I have to please the managers and go to the break.
0:42:30 > 0:42:33Join us in a couple of minutes.
0:42:47 > 0:42:51Welcome back to the final part of the programme.
0:42:51 > 0:42:53You're watching Pawb a'i Farn from Welshpool.
0:42:53 > 0:42:57Let's move on to the next question. Robin, your question.
0:42:57 > 0:43:03Business Minister Edwina Hart claims that Wales has lost its brand.
0:43:03 > 0:43:08Isn't this the fault of the Welsh Government
0:43:08 > 0:43:11and isn't it time we restored the WDA?
0:43:11 > 0:43:15Yes, the WDA. Business Minister Edwina Hart claims Wales has lost its brand.
0:43:15 > 0:43:21Isn't this the fault of the Welsh Government? And isn't it time we restored the WDA? Glyn Davies?
0:43:21 > 0:43:26I don't think we could have the WDA returning.
0:43:26 > 0:43:30I was a member of the WDA. I know it did a lot of work.
0:43:30 > 0:43:32But I also know that we had to change.
0:43:32 > 0:43:35After the Assembly was established,
0:43:35 > 0:43:37we had to change the way the WDA worked.
0:43:37 > 0:43:40The problem was that the First Minister at the time,
0:43:40 > 0:43:46Rhodri Morgan, didn't speak to anyone about scrapping it and deciding what would replace it.
0:43:46 > 0:43:51That is the problem. It has not been replaced by anything effective.
0:43:51 > 0:43:56Isn't that what has happened? Isn't that why we have lost this "brand"?
0:43:56 > 0:44:03Today, a lot of people tell me that the WDA name is still strong.
0:44:03 > 0:44:09There's a possibility, I'm sure, that the name can be kept,
0:44:09 > 0:44:12- but I don't think it could really return.- It's too late? - It's too late to do that.
0:44:12 > 0:44:16Rhys Williams, your government's fault.
0:44:16 > 0:44:18I don't think that losing the brand is the problem.
0:44:18 > 0:44:23- Creating a brand in the first place, that's the problem.- We don't have a brand?- I don't think so.
0:44:23 > 0:44:30- That's bad.- We've been talking tonight about Plaid Cymru and Heno,
0:44:30 > 0:44:34about an ideal.
0:44:34 > 0:44:38What is the ideal? The Wales brand is extremely foggy.
0:44:38 > 0:44:41What is the Wales brand? Is it something from the north?
0:44:41 > 0:44:44Or the south? I'm not sure.
0:44:44 > 0:44:46Or are all these things included?
0:44:46 > 0:44:50Edwina Hart is the best placed minister
0:44:50 > 0:44:52to be asking these questions.
0:44:52 > 0:44:55So was the bonfire of the Quangos a mistake?
0:44:55 > 0:45:00No. I think people would have said, "That is typical of Wales.
0:45:00 > 0:45:05"We've left things in the same place. We haven't experimented.
0:45:05 > 0:45:12- "We haven't changed." - But it obviously hasn't worked. Dafydd Iwan?
0:45:12 > 0:45:17What hasn't worked is giving a specific job like this to civil servants.
0:45:17 > 0:45:20Civil servants don't know about what business needs.
0:45:20 > 0:45:24As a company, we were in Cannes this month, I wasn't there, in January.
0:45:24 > 0:45:27We have to be there every year.
0:45:27 > 0:45:31That is the biggest music trade fair in the world.
0:45:31 > 0:45:35Small and large countries had stalls there, national stalls,
0:45:35 > 0:45:40promoting businesses, but Wales didn't have a stall.
0:45:40 > 0:45:44You can't brand Welsh produce without going there.
0:45:44 > 0:45:50- But isn't the brand foggy?- Well, no. that is a definite example.
0:45:50 > 0:45:55- But when was this happening?- This year.- Oh, this year.- We were there.
0:45:55 > 0:46:01I'll tell you another thing about this Government's ideology. They said, "We'll help you go there,
0:46:01 > 0:46:06"your company, we'll pay half the costs of the hotel and the flights,
0:46:06 > 0:46:11"but you have to go through an English agency."
0:46:11 > 0:46:15We said, "We'll go through a Caernarfon agency."
0:46:15 > 0:46:19We had a better hotel and flights for less than half the cost.
0:46:19 > 0:46:26- They don't think about the practicalities.- Let's hear from Elinor.- Just one more thing.- Briefly.
0:46:26 > 0:46:30One of the first economic campaigns I remember from Plaid Cymru
0:46:30 > 0:46:34was campaigning for a development agency for Wales.
0:46:34 > 0:46:38- So you're longing for those days? - No. It has a job to do.
0:46:38 > 0:46:41- Elinor? - As some of you will know,
0:46:41 > 0:46:47we're responsible for coordinating the development of a coastal path.
0:46:47 > 0:46:53It opens in May. One thing that became clear in doing this work was that marketing
0:46:53 > 0:46:58the brand is something that needs attention and resources.
0:46:58 > 0:47:02It's not something you can do alongside other jobs.
0:47:02 > 0:47:06I'd say that is something important to remember, the need
0:47:06 > 0:47:10for investment and attention being given to the matter of branding.
0:47:10 > 0:47:16We don't market ourselves well enough, despite all these years of trying to do so?
0:47:16 > 0:47:22Yes. Or not concentrating on doing it properly. It's interesting.
0:47:22 > 0:47:29This news came in the context of the economic performance of West Wales and the Valleys.
0:47:29 > 0:47:32Edwina Hart mentioned attracting investment in tourism.
0:47:32 > 0:47:38It's interesting that the government department that deals with tourism only markets outside of Wales.
0:47:38 > 0:47:42In attracting investment, we need to do more, increasing skills
0:47:42 > 0:47:46- and promoting local companies. - I must interrupt.
0:47:46 > 0:47:50I'm sorry, panel, audience, but that is the end of the programme.
0:47:50 > 0:47:53Thank you for your contributions.
0:47:53 > 0:47:58Next week, we end our series in Pwllheli. I hope you will join us.
0:47:58 > 0:48:02But from Welshpool, good night.