0:00:24 > 0:00:28On our panel this evening, the president of the Farmers' Union of Wales, Emyr Jones.
0:00:28 > 0:00:34Malan Vaughan Wilkinson, a communications officer for Theatr y Fran Wen.
0:00:34 > 0:00:39Liberal Democrat Aled Roberts, one of the members for North Wales in the Assembly.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43And the local MP and leader of Plaid Cymru at Westminster, Elfyn Llwyd.
0:00:43 > 0:00:44Please welcome them.
0:01:00 > 0:01:06Good evening and welcome to the programme. It is Thursday night.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10Tonight, we have arrived in Meirionnydd for the first time this series.
0:01:10 > 0:01:16The last time we were in Bala, we almost failed to have a programme due to the snow.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19The situation has improved this evening
0:01:19 > 0:01:24and our audience have managed to arrive from the surrounding area.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28You are welcome to get in touch during or after the programme,
0:01:28 > 0:01:31the addresses are on the screen, as usual.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34And if you want to be in the audience over the coming weeks,
0:01:34 > 0:01:37we will be in Welshpool, Cardiff with an audience of young people
0:01:37 > 0:01:39and then in the Rhondda Valley.
0:01:39 > 0:01:43The panel and the questions are ready. Let's hear the first.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46What is your question?
0:01:46 > 0:01:50We had more statistics yesterday showing a fall in Welsh speakers.
0:01:50 > 0:01:55Is a lack of jobs for young people partly responsible?
0:01:55 > 0:01:56Thank you very much.
0:01:56 > 0:02:00We had more statistics yesterday showing a fall in Welsh speakers.
0:02:00 > 0:02:04Is a lack of jobs for young people partly responsible?
0:02:04 > 0:02:08What are the answers? I'll start with you, Aled Roberts.
0:02:08 > 0:02:14It is definitely partly responsible but I think it is a complex picture.
0:00:00 > 0:00:00The problems change from area to area.
0:02:14 > 0:02:22But if you look at the figures for Ceredigion, Carmarthenshire
0:02:22 > 0:02:27and also parts of rural Wales, there is a problem with the younger
0:02:27 > 0:02:32generation moving from those areas due to a lack of work.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Malan?
0:02:34 > 0:02:36Yes, certainly,
0:02:36 > 0:02:43I agree that a lack of work for young people is partly responsible.
0:02:43 > 0:02:48But I also agree that it is a complex picture.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52I think that research looking at graduate recruitment
0:02:52 > 0:02:56published at the start of the month showed that one of the main
0:02:56 > 0:03:02concerns of graduates in Wales is a lack of jobs.
0:03:02 > 0:03:07Less than half of our main employers can offer students work
0:03:07 > 0:03:15and that means that they have two cross the border to
0:03:15 > 0:03:18look for work or maybe be unemployed.
0:03:18 > 0:03:24We know that there has been an increase in unemployment
0:03:24 > 0:03:28among young people. Certainly this is an important factor.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31I think that we need strong leadership
0:03:31 > 0:03:34and investment in the economy and in jobs
0:03:34 > 0:03:40and I also think we can look at this as a subject that needs jobs,
0:03:40 > 0:03:45but there are training schemes available.
0:03:45 > 0:03:53We have an apprenticeship scheme and it is a very good scheme.
0:03:53 > 0:03:57It gives people an opportunity to get
0:03:57 > 0:03:59an opportunity in the creative industries
0:03:59 > 0:04:03and the field I work in, there are not many jobs in North Wales.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05Everyone is flocking to Cardiff.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09Certainly, I think a lack of work is partly responsible.
0:04:09 > 0:04:12- So it is partly responsible, would you agree with that?- Yes.
0:04:12 > 0:04:17But I would also add that it is important that we now ensure
0:04:17 > 0:04:22that people realise that living through the medium of Welsh
0:04:22 > 0:04:26is possible and that we must be prepared to do it.
0:04:26 > 0:04:30As I heard someone at the rally on Saturday saying,
0:04:30 > 0:04:36we are too willing to switch to English when speaking to learners.
0:04:36 > 0:04:40It is important that we work hard. May I add one more thing?
0:04:40 > 0:04:45Yes, of course, we should be working harder to secure jobs for rural
0:04:45 > 0:04:49Wales, but one of the things that causes problems is this
0:04:49 > 0:04:53idea of sending 50% of people to university when there
0:04:53 > 0:04:57are no jobs for them at the end of the day, that is a stupid idea.
0:04:57 > 0:05:04They would be better off maybe starting businesses
0:05:04 > 0:05:11in their own areas, full apprenticeships learning skills.
0:05:11 > 0:05:15But maybe young people are not led to thinking those ways.
0:05:15 > 0:05:22- We always say on this programme, maybe we as a nation are showing a lack of enterprise.- That is a fact.
0:05:22 > 0:05:27Some of these young people, I was with school pupils recently and they were saying exactly the same thing.
0:05:27 > 0:05:32It is not that I want to stop people from going to university.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36But in the days when I went to university, there was a chance of a job at the end of it.
0:05:36 > 0:05:41Is it worth getting into debt? These days, young people,
0:05:41 > 0:05:45they are getting into £40,000 worth of debt and there are no jobs.
0:05:45 > 0:05:51It is better for them to be told, going to university is not the only way to get along and make a living.
0:05:51 > 0:05:55If you want to think about making a living or creating
0:05:55 > 0:06:00a business in your own area, go for it. That is the way to do it.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03It is more of a problem than merely a lack of work. We will return to that.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07Let's get Emyr Jones in on this subject.
0:06:07 > 0:06:14It is very sad that we are losing young people from these areas.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17There are empty factories here.
0:06:17 > 0:06:21We should be doing everything we can to get people into work
0:06:21 > 0:06:25and to have industries coming in and people to take on these factories.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28But it is a wider picture than that.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30We have heard the statistics regarding the Welsh language
0:06:30 > 0:06:35and it is very sad. The future is in our hands, I believe.
0:06:35 > 0:06:41Do not rely on the Assembly Government to save the Welsh
0:06:41 > 0:06:46- language.- But surely we should be looking for leadership from them?
0:06:46 > 0:06:49It's pointless waiting for leadership from them.
0:06:49 > 0:06:52We know Carwyn Jones's attitude over the past fortnight.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55He says that the problem is not as bad as we think.
0:06:55 > 0:07:00It is a huge problem. What was his attitude this morning?
0:07:00 > 0:07:02Him and Leighton Andrews.
0:07:02 > 0:07:06They were asked for an interview on Radio Cymru
0:07:06 > 0:07:10and there was no-one from the Assembly available to comment.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13- Maybe they were busy. - You cannot rely on them.
0:07:13 > 0:07:19It says it all to me about the Assembly Government. We need to act.
0:07:19 > 0:07:23I will return to you. Thank you for those comments.
0:07:23 > 0:07:29Elfyn Llwyd, your party was part of that government for some time during this decade.
0:07:29 > 0:07:33You are partly to blame, if we are looking for leadership.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37Well, certainly, I think that we are all to blame.
0:07:37 > 0:07:40But we need to concentrate now in the coming months and
0:07:40 > 0:07:43I partly disagree there,
0:07:43 > 0:07:48we should put our political badges to one side
0:07:48 > 0:07:52and sit around the table. It is a crisis in Wales.
0:07:52 > 0:07:57Whatever party, Tory, Labour, Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00We need to play our part for the future of the language
0:08:00 > 0:08:04and the nation on the way to do that is to concentrate in the coming
0:08:04 > 0:08:07months on getting together and sharing ideas.
0:08:07 > 0:08:11Is there the political will for that?
0:08:11 > 0:08:15People in different constituencies may see other priorities.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17I don't know.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21But the point is that there are enough people within all
0:08:21 > 0:08:26the parties in Wales to get together and work on this.
0:08:26 > 0:08:30We need to stop this from happening or we will be in trouble.
0:08:30 > 0:08:32I want to come back in on this
0:08:32 > 0:08:36because we know the Assembly Government's policy.
0:08:36 > 0:08:40They want to build more and more houses.
0:08:40 > 0:08:44These houses are built in villages and towns in Wales.
0:08:44 > 0:08:48They are too expensive for the local people to buy them.
0:08:48 > 0:08:53And who is coming in? These houses are costing over £300,000.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56The local people cannot afford them. What happens?
0:08:56 > 0:08:58It affects the Welsh language
0:08:58 > 0:09:02and I'm not surprised with these statistics.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04You asked the question. What do you think?
0:09:04 > 0:09:07I agree regarding the houses that are being built.
0:09:07 > 0:09:11They are much too big and expensive for the people that have just
0:09:11 > 0:09:14come out of university, looking for work.
0:09:14 > 0:09:19If there is no work for them, they do not have a good wage to be able to buy these houses.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22And they have to leave their communities.
0:09:22 > 0:09:28- That affects the Welsh language. - Do you think you may leave?
0:09:28 > 0:09:32I don't want to, but it's a possibility.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35What about your friends?
0:09:35 > 0:09:38Well, if there are no jobs available,
0:09:38 > 0:09:42there is no point staying, if there is no future.
0:09:42 > 0:09:47- You will move to somewhere where there are jobs.- And you?- I agree.
0:09:47 > 0:09:54- You don't foresee you staying in this area?- No.
0:09:54 > 0:10:00- Your hand is up.- I agree with Elfyn Llwyd and Emyr Jones.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03The young people leave to go to university
0:10:03 > 0:10:07and there is no-one left to start up these businesses.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10You need people staying in their areas.
0:10:10 > 0:10:14Once they leave, they will not return.
0:10:14 > 0:10:20They will find something better elsewhere. That's what I think.
0:10:20 > 0:10:25- What about you?- It is true.
0:10:25 > 0:10:30We have lost a lot of young people in this area.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34They have gone and they will not return.
0:10:34 > 0:10:40- Is there anything to attract them back?- No. There is no work.
0:10:40 > 0:10:44As we have heard, the factories are closing.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47They open for a couple of years and then they have disappeared.
0:10:47 > 0:10:50Thank you. I can see a hand up over here.
0:10:50 > 0:10:54I would like to ask, how do you expect students moving back
0:10:54 > 0:10:58to the area to start their own businesses when they can't afford a mortgage,
0:10:58 > 0:11:03they can't afford a loan from the bank, they're living at home with their parents
0:11:03 > 0:11:06because they can't afford to pay rent,
0:11:06 > 0:11:12they have to put up with part-time seasonal jobs and minimum wage?
0:11:12 > 0:11:16How do you expect anything from?
0:11:16 > 0:11:19- Do you think that is a general picture?- Yes.
0:11:19 > 0:11:24Let's return to Aled Roberts. We have not heard from him in a while.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27I do not think this is a problem just for Wales.
0:11:27 > 0:11:32Depopulation is a problem affecting
0:11:32 > 0:11:36Scotland, Northern Ireland and across Europe.
0:11:36 > 0:11:41One thing is that maybe the picture in 2001 was too positive.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45And as a result, the strategy was insufficient.
0:11:45 > 0:11:49The Government thought there was no need...
0:11:49 > 0:11:53I am not blaming any parties in particular.
0:11:53 > 0:11:57The Assembly did not have a sufficient strategy.
0:11:57 > 0:12:01But was there an effort to reach those targets?
0:12:01 > 0:12:06Was enough money spent? Was there enough investment,
0:12:06 > 0:12:10- and of leadership, from ministers from all parties?- It appears no.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14And I think the questions that have come from the Census is that maybe
0:12:14 > 0:12:20we need more radical policies than the Assembly has considered so far.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24At least now the Assembly has the power to legislate
0:12:24 > 0:12:29in the field of houses, planning, economic development
0:12:29 > 0:12:32and it is up to them now, all the parties in the Assembly,
0:12:32 > 0:12:36- to show leadership on this subject. - I will give you a word.
0:12:36 > 0:12:40This is the word I will give you, "observatory".
0:12:40 > 0:12:44- What does that mean? - Does it mean anything to you?
0:12:44 > 0:12:48That is what the Welsh Commissioner is establishing in order to
0:12:48 > 0:12:54develop a structure to introduce new policies? Do we need that?
0:12:54 > 0:12:58We need something. If that is it then fine.
0:12:58 > 0:13:03- But can I return to this point. - I want you to discuss this one.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06It sounds to me like a talking shop.
0:13:06 > 0:13:09I must admit, it does not sound too good to me.
0:13:09 > 0:13:14But returning to this point now, this young girl is right.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17The point I was trying to make, the Government needs to change direction
0:13:17 > 0:13:20as far as pumping people into the university,
0:13:20 > 0:13:24making it possible for people to start businesses locally,
0:13:24 > 0:13:30we need to change direction, introduce new strategies.
0:13:30 > 0:13:35Is that going to save the Welsh language? We need more than that.
0:13:35 > 0:13:41People need opportunities to stay in their own local areas.
0:13:41 > 0:13:49- Malan? Observatory?- I think there needs to be a number of levels if we are serious about
0:13:49 > 0:13:54the Welsh language and improving the situation in strongholds.
0:13:54 > 0:13:58I agree that we need to introduce strong guidelines
0:13:58 > 0:14:02and specific guidelines to tackle the problem
0:14:02 > 0:14:06but the problem with this is that I feel that we spend
0:14:06 > 0:14:11half our lives forming reports and reaching conclusions.
0:14:11 > 0:14:16These sad figures, I would say, they are in our faces right now
0:14:16 > 0:14:21and I would say maybe it's time to act.
0:14:21 > 0:14:27One comment I heard on the Radio Cymru this morning was that...
0:14:27 > 0:14:32- You're a good listener.- I am. They are good programmes.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35One comment I heard was that the Basque country in northern
0:14:35 > 0:14:41Spain spends 180,000. How much does the Assembly Government spend?
0:14:41 > 0:14:4725,000. And the populations of those countries are similar.
0:14:47 > 0:14:52And there are more people speaking the language in the Basque country than there are in Wales.
0:14:52 > 0:14:58If I remember correctly, that figure came from a former Chief Executive of the Welsh Language Board.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00We could discuss figures for hours.
0:15:00 > 0:15:06But do you think these figures that came out yesterday will spark action soon?
0:15:06 > 0:15:10There is also a personal responsibility.
0:15:10 > 0:15:15There are Welsh speakers that are not transferring the Welsh language to their children.
0:15:15 > 0:15:18And there are children going to Welsh medium schools at the
0:15:18 > 0:15:23moment and when they reach their teens, they choose to speak English.
0:15:23 > 0:15:25How can we change that?
0:15:25 > 0:15:27As part of my job, I have an opportunity to go
0:15:27 > 0:15:33around schools in Wales and one of the things that surprises me
0:15:33 > 0:15:38even in strongholds, to be honest, is seeing young people
0:15:38 > 0:15:41turning to English, it is the language of the schoolyard.
0:15:41 > 0:15:46- It's cool.- Yes, it seems it is cool.
0:15:46 > 0:15:50And the reason given time and time again is the lack of confidence
0:15:50 > 0:15:53or maybe they don't feel that their Welsh is good enough.
0:15:53 > 0:15:58I think there is an opportunity for us all socially to pull together and urge people and young people
0:15:58 > 0:16:01to use the Welsh language but also provide opportunities for them
0:16:01 > 0:16:04socially to use the Welsh language and be proud of it.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08I also want to see more support from political parties.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12There are supporters of the Welsh language in all parties.
0:16:12 > 0:16:16We need to get together and stop the talk and act.
0:16:16 > 0:16:19- The time has come for action. - There we are.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22And on that note, we will end that subject. Thank you.
0:16:22 > 0:16:27Let's move on. At first, it's time for a break. Join us in two minutes.
0:16:43 > 0:16:48Welcome back. We are in Bala this week. On to the second question.
0:16:48 > 0:16:54This question comes from Mirain Roberts. What's your question?
0:16:54 > 0:16:59According to Gwynedd County Council's decision,
0:16:59 > 0:17:02Ysgol Y Parc will close in August.
0:17:02 > 0:17:07- Are other schools under threat? - Thank you very much.
0:17:07 > 0:17:10Ysgol Y Parc closes in August.
0:17:10 > 0:17:16Other schools are possibly under threat. Is it over for small schools?
0:17:16 > 0:17:19No. It depends on the size of the school,
0:17:19 > 0:17:23the quality of the education, it depends on a lot of factors.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26It depends on if it is possible to federalise,
0:17:26 > 0:17:30have one head teacher for two or three schools and so on.
0:17:30 > 0:17:35The process is sad and no-one wants to see schools closing.
0:17:35 > 0:17:39I have not met anyone pleased to see schools closing.
0:17:39 > 0:17:43It is part of the village, part of the community. Having said...
0:17:43 > 0:17:46There are some people keen to see them close.
0:17:46 > 0:17:52Well, they're not keen to see them close, they have had to come to that decision.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54The situation, it is continuing in Anglesey,
0:17:54 > 0:17:59the Clwyd Valley, Ceredigion, Carmarthenshire, Pembrokeshire.
0:17:59 > 0:18:02What's happening is that the Assembly has
0:18:02 > 0:18:07said that there are too many empty places and as a result,
0:18:07 > 0:18:11something needs to be changed or the Assembly itself will come in
0:18:11 > 0:18:14and decide what is best. Because these councils need to do something.
0:18:14 > 0:18:18- So it is over for the small schools. - It depends what you mean by "small".
0:18:18 > 0:18:22It means different things to different people.
0:18:22 > 0:18:27But also what needs to be considered is that some educators say that
0:18:27 > 0:18:32if you go down to under a dozen pupils, it gets difficult to maintain education.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35It's not possible to have a football match.
0:18:35 > 0:18:40It's not possible to play a full role in education and so on.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43Because it is not only learning on paper,
0:18:43 > 0:18:47education is a lot of other things, I think.
0:18:47 > 0:18:51Can I emphasise, no-one is glad to see this happening.
0:18:51 > 0:18:56But it has been forced on all councils and eventually,
0:18:56 > 0:18:58they will have to do act.
0:18:58 > 0:19:04I think everything must be done to keep these rural schools open.
0:19:04 > 0:19:09- Is there enough being done?- No. I don't think so.
0:19:09 > 0:19:13The school is the heart of the community.
0:19:13 > 0:19:17And if the school closes, then the community is affected.
0:19:17 > 0:19:22We have seen are generally in other areas and I hope...
0:19:22 > 0:19:26It is over for Parc?
0:19:26 > 0:19:32It is a sad chapter in our history, losing the school.
0:19:32 > 0:19:38And the area has fought as hard as any other area in Wales to
0:19:38 > 0:19:41keep it open and they have failed.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44That is what is sad about the situation.
0:19:44 > 0:19:49We don't need to be looking at money and the cost all the time.
0:19:49 > 0:19:53You cannot put a price on the contribution the school
0:19:53 > 0:19:57makes to the community.
0:19:57 > 0:20:01So you say not enough is being done to keep these small schools open?
0:20:01 > 0:20:04- Is that fair?- Yes.
0:20:04 > 0:20:08And so in this specific case, Gwynedd Council, under the leadership
0:20:08 > 0:20:12of Plaid Cymru, has not done enough to keep small schools open?
0:20:12 > 0:20:14It comes back to the first question,
0:20:14 > 0:20:17how can we keep our young people in rural areas?
0:20:17 > 0:20:21If we had a structure to keep young people in rural areas,
0:20:21 > 0:20:25the economy would be stronger, and then given people would
0:20:25 > 0:20:30live in rural areas, marry and raise families.
0:20:30 > 0:20:35But that's not about to happen tomorrow or the day after. That's the ideal.
0:20:35 > 0:20:39Yes, but the question about Europe is exactly the same thing.
0:20:39 > 0:20:42It comes back to money for rural Wales.
0:20:42 > 0:20:47Right. Let's turn to the audience. The back row.
0:20:47 > 0:20:52I live in Llangwm and the first question mentioned the Census
0:20:52 > 0:20:58and Llangwm is one of the Welshest areas in the county.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01You expect councillors in Conwy... It is a council
0:21:01 > 0:21:07with a large number of English-speaking councillors,
0:21:07 > 0:21:13but they see the value in keeping small schools going.
0:21:13 > 0:21:19They see that is what the census has proved.
0:21:19 > 0:21:25- And you say that is linked to small schools.- Yes, definitely.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29What I can't believe is that Gwynedd Council is doing this.
0:21:29 > 0:21:33Conwy Council is looking at ways to cooperate.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36But they're not looking at closing.
0:21:36 > 0:21:41They are looking for other opportunities.
0:21:41 > 0:21:46I cannot believe Gwynedd Council has forced this on the community.
0:21:46 > 0:21:53- Briefly, what about the future of Llangwm School? Is that under threat? - The numbers are low
0:21:53 > 0:21:57but we haven't heard from Conwy Council that they intend to close.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00So you are disappointed with Gwynedd Council.
0:22:00 > 0:22:05Elfyn Llwyd, you can come back on that as it is a Plaid Cymru led council.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07Conwy Council is closing schools.
0:22:07 > 0:22:11If you read the policy papers, they are being forced to do that.
0:22:11 > 0:22:17In the same way, Anglesey, Denbighshire is already doing it, all schools are in this situation.
0:22:17 > 0:22:22The Assembly has said there are too many empty places.
0:22:22 > 0:22:27It is not unique to Gwynedd. It's happening all over Wales.
0:22:27 > 0:22:28Unfortunately.
0:22:28 > 0:22:31Do you feel uneasy that your party is responsible in Gwynedd?
0:22:31 > 0:22:35A party that we would have thought in the past as a party that supported rural areas?
0:22:35 > 0:22:41I hope that we remain a party that supports rural areas.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44It was a decision by the council as a whole,
0:22:44 > 0:22:48all parties voted the same way, except for one.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52- Malan Wilkinson? - It is a difficult situation.
0:22:52 > 0:22:56It is not an easy situation, it is sensitive.
0:22:56 > 0:23:00There is no doubt that a small school, schools in general,
0:23:00 > 0:23:03they are central to the community.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07The question following the reorganisation
0:23:07 > 0:23:13and closing the schools is do we need to rethink the way that we consider Welsh areas?
0:23:13 > 0:23:19I think that in a number of cases, the main consideration is education and in some situations,
0:23:19 > 0:23:24where maybe some would argue that the provision is not the best
0:23:24 > 0:23:29possible and that the opportunities are not as wide as
0:23:29 > 0:23:32they could be, I think there is room to consider closing.
0:23:32 > 0:23:36But of course, I also think that we need to think
0:23:36 > 0:23:40carefully about how we will help our communities.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43And it is a difficult situation and sensitive situation,
0:23:43 > 0:23:48but the community needs to come together to make sure
0:23:48 > 0:23:52there are enough other opportunities for everyone to contribute.
0:23:52 > 0:23:56But not all communities have died following the closure of a school?
0:23:56 > 0:23:58There are examples.
0:23:58 > 0:24:02Yes, but I still say that the school is the heart of the community.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04Everything is held there.
0:24:04 > 0:24:08It is so important to the future of rural communities.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10I will return to the audience.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14When talking about the standard of education in Wales
0:24:14 > 0:24:17and they say that it is not as good as it should be.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20But this is a golden opportunity...
0:24:20 > 0:24:24I have asked many times over the years,
0:24:24 > 0:24:28how do you work out these empty places in a school?
0:24:28 > 0:24:30I will make it simple.
0:24:30 > 0:24:36There are 30 children in this class, by next year, only 20,
0:24:36 > 0:24:40this is a golden opportunity,
0:24:40 > 0:24:45teachers will have 20 children in the class, they can give them
0:24:45 > 0:24:50more attention, behaviour improves, and the teacher have less paperwork.
0:24:50 > 0:24:56And maybe it does not affect their health.
0:24:56 > 0:25:02In some schools, they have 13 pupils per class.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04This is an opportunity.
0:25:04 > 0:25:08Forget the empty spaces and use them as smaller classes.
0:25:08 > 0:25:12Further over. Yes? One of you.
0:25:12 > 0:25:16The carbon footprint comes into this as well,
0:25:16 > 0:25:21if they have to transport children miles away to other schools.
0:25:21 > 0:25:26The further away they are, the more problems we have.
0:25:27 > 0:25:32The villages that don't have schools in the future,
0:25:32 > 0:25:37the young people who want to get married and have children
0:25:37 > 0:25:40will tend to buy houses in villages that have schools.
0:25:40 > 0:25:45The villages without a school will get older and older.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48That's what I predict.
0:25:48 > 0:25:50And over again.
0:25:50 > 0:25:54Although I come from Y Parc and I've been part of this battle,
0:25:54 > 0:25:58it's very sad that this has happened.
0:25:58 > 0:26:04Do you accept Elfyn's point? It's inevitable sometimes?
0:26:04 > 0:26:08Yes, because money controls everything.
0:26:08 > 0:26:10If they had told us at the start,
0:26:10 > 0:26:14it would have saved a lot of problems.
0:26:14 > 0:26:16But financial considerations are important.
0:26:16 > 0:26:21The community in Y Parc wanted to keep that school.
0:26:21 > 0:26:25Nobody has left the school to go to another school,
0:26:25 > 0:26:28which we see in some cases.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31We have a young community.
0:26:31 > 0:26:36There are only two or three pensioners.
0:26:36 > 0:26:40It is a young area. People have jobs.
0:26:40 > 0:26:46I don't think anybody is unemployed in our area.
0:26:46 > 0:26:50The school has kept the community together.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52I dread to think what will happen.
0:26:52 > 0:26:56So they'll travel to Llanuwchllyn now?
0:26:56 > 0:27:03- 23 pupils are supposed to, yes. - How far away is that?
0:27:03 > 0:27:05There's no guarantee they'll go.
0:27:05 > 0:27:10- How far away is it? - Three-and-a-half miles.
0:27:10 > 0:27:12Your hand was up.
0:27:12 > 0:27:17I've also been fighting to keep Ysgol Llandrillo open.
0:27:17 > 0:27:21Denbighshire Council has closed the school twice as often as Parc.
0:27:21 > 0:27:27Although we fought hard and asked all kinds of questions,
0:27:27 > 0:27:31they had made their minds up from the start.
0:27:31 > 0:27:37- We couldn't do anything.- And you didn't accept their arguments?- No.
0:27:37 > 0:27:39The school wasn't too small. It wasn't.
0:27:39 > 0:27:41Mirain, you asked the questions.
0:27:41 > 0:27:46One question I have is, why is it so difficult for young people
0:27:46 > 0:27:49to get planning permission in small villages like Llangwm?
0:27:49 > 0:27:54If we had planning permission we would stay in the village
0:27:54 > 0:27:57and build a house and raise a family.
0:27:57 > 0:28:00Then the schools would not be under threat.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03What about the character of the village?
0:28:03 > 0:28:08I know of a lot of people who have tried to get planning permission
0:28:08 > 0:28:11but have been rejected by the council.
0:28:11 > 0:28:14We have no hope of bringing up small families.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17Aled Roberts, you have not contributed on this issue?
0:28:17 > 0:28:21It's a very difficult situation, to be honest.
0:28:21 > 0:28:26The problem that Gwynedd Council has is the size of the reductions
0:28:26 > 0:28:28across the county.
0:28:28 > 0:28:32In a county like Wrexham, we had four schools with under 50 pupils.
0:28:32 > 0:28:37It was easy to make the decisions to keep those schools open.
0:28:37 > 0:28:40Two of them in Ceiriog Valley with less than 25 children.
0:28:40 > 0:28:44But the size of the problem in councils like Gwynedd
0:28:44 > 0:28:48makes it a very difficult decision.
0:28:48 > 0:28:54As a result, the education budget suffers.
0:28:54 > 0:28:56There's so much pressure on the councils,
0:28:56 > 0:28:59if they put more money into the education system,
0:28:59 > 0:29:03social services and so on, they suffer.
0:29:03 > 0:29:10- I don't envy council leaders... - It was easier in Wrexham?
0:29:10 > 0:29:12It is easier.
0:29:12 > 0:29:16In Wrexham, we had to decide how many schools to open.
0:29:16 > 0:29:20This is part of the problem in terms of depopulation.
0:29:20 > 0:29:27Don't think for a minute that any councillor wants to close a school.
0:29:27 > 0:29:32We will have to leave that there to squeeze as much as possible in.
0:29:32 > 0:29:36Let's go to our third question, from Alwyn Parry Jones.
0:29:36 > 0:29:37What's your question?
0:29:37 > 0:29:44Because so much has changed since Britain joined the European Union,
0:29:44 > 0:29:51isn't it time to reconsider the relationship and hold a referendum?
0:29:51 > 0:29:55Thank you very much. I knew we would discuss Europe at some point.
0:29:55 > 0:29:59Because so much has changed since Britain joined the European Union,
0:29:59 > 0:30:03isn't it time to reconsider the relationship and hold a referendum,
0:30:03 > 0:30:07as David Cameron has suggested over the last few weeks?
0:30:07 > 0:30:12May I start with Emyr Jones?
0:30:12 > 0:30:14I would accept that a lot has changed
0:30:14 > 0:30:17since we joined the common market,
0:30:17 > 0:30:21but I think it would be better for the Prime Minister
0:30:21 > 0:30:26to do his best to hold talks with the other 26 countries
0:30:26 > 0:30:30to reach the best agreement possible for Britain.
0:30:30 > 0:30:34That's what he intends to do.
0:30:34 > 0:30:37He's trying to reach a better agreement.
0:30:37 > 0:30:40Yes, but what if he doesn't get it?
0:30:40 > 0:30:43He's going into these discussions, in my opinion,
0:30:43 > 0:30:46holding a gun to the other countries.
0:30:46 > 0:30:53He's saying if he does not get what he wants from the rest of them,
0:30:53 > 0:30:57he's going to hold a referendum and risk coming out of Europe.
0:30:57 > 0:31:01For me, that's too much of a risk.
0:31:01 > 0:31:05In Wales we depend completely
0:31:05 > 0:31:08on European money.
0:31:08 > 0:31:13We receive half a billion pounds a year from Europe.
0:31:13 > 0:31:17We use that to sustain the economy in Wales.
0:31:17 > 0:31:21So you welcome all of the money that farmers get as well?
0:31:21 > 0:31:23I wouldn't say we're doing well.
0:31:23 > 0:31:28That comes into the economy in general.
0:31:28 > 0:31:32- But you welcome the money and grants.- Yes, of course.
0:31:32 > 0:31:3880% of the income of farms in Wales
0:31:38 > 0:31:40comes from that money.
0:31:40 > 0:31:43It's not from the sale of animals.
0:31:43 > 0:31:47- No wonder you want to stay in Europe, then?- Exactly.
0:31:47 > 0:31:51If we want more for our animals,
0:31:51 > 0:31:55are people then going to pay more for our lambs and cattle?
0:31:55 > 0:31:58I wouldn't like them to at the moment.
0:31:58 > 0:32:00It's not easy for them.
0:32:00 > 0:32:02Let's hear from Aled Roberts.
0:32:02 > 0:32:06The Liberal Democrats love Europe.
0:32:06 > 0:32:11No, I think it's healthy to look at this relationships.
0:32:11 > 0:32:17But the decisions about a referendum is more to do with internal problems
0:32:17 > 0:32:20within the Conservative Party and the threat from UKIP
0:32:20 > 0:32:25than it is the relationship between Britain and Europe.
0:32:25 > 0:32:28But don't we have a right to a voice?
0:32:28 > 0:32:32We have not had a vote since 1975.
0:32:32 > 0:32:36A lot has changed since then. Are you afraid of public opinion?
0:32:36 > 0:32:39I don't think that much has changed.
0:32:39 > 0:32:43But look at the number of countries to start with.
0:32:43 > 0:32:46We discussed changes in 2008
0:32:46 > 0:32:49with the Lisbon Treaty.
0:32:49 > 0:32:56At the time maybe we should have had a referendum, but we decided not to.
0:32:56 > 0:33:00At the moment nothing has changed since 2008.
0:33:00 > 0:33:05I think that David Cameron himself is foolish
0:33:05 > 0:33:08if he thinks that the other 26 countries
0:33:08 > 0:33:14will give Britain a different status in the relationship.
0:33:14 > 0:33:17They might want to keep Britain in Europe.
0:33:17 > 0:33:22They might, but £9.4 billion from Europe
0:33:22 > 0:33:26goes into the agriculture industry in Britain.
0:33:26 > 0:33:29If you look at Norway,
0:33:29 > 0:33:32changing the relationship's not easy.
0:33:32 > 0:33:37Norway pays around £2 billion to Europe.
0:33:37 > 0:33:39On top of that,
0:33:39 > 0:33:43there's a levy on every agricultural product leaving Norway.
0:33:43 > 0:33:47Let's turn to the audience. The back row.
0:33:47 > 0:33:49A lot of money comes into agriculture
0:33:49 > 0:33:53but there are complaints about the grants.
0:33:53 > 0:33:58This programme tonight would not be broadcast without grants.
0:33:59 > 0:34:02And the licence fee.
0:34:02 > 0:34:06The money comes from your pocket as well.
0:34:06 > 0:34:08- The money is given to you. - Alwyn, you asked the question.
0:34:08 > 0:34:1240 years ago, the question was,
0:34:12 > 0:34:17should Britain be a part of a wider market?
0:34:17 > 0:34:20Today, Europe interferes
0:34:20 > 0:34:25and effects every aspects of our lives here in Wales.
0:34:25 > 0:34:29Do we want to be a part of that?
0:34:29 > 0:34:34I think the public should have the opportunity to say "yes" or "no".
0:34:34 > 0:34:38If we allow people like Mr Cameron to make the decision,
0:34:38 > 0:34:41he will have changed his mind by tomorrow morning
0:34:41 > 0:34:43and so will the others.
0:34:43 > 0:34:44- So you want a vote?- Yes.
0:34:44 > 0:34:47Malan Wilkinson?
0:34:47 > 0:34:51I would welcome a vote, to be honest.
0:34:51 > 0:34:56I think it's encouraging if we are talking about a healthy democracy.
0:34:56 > 0:34:58I work in the arts.
0:34:58 > 0:35:03I know we've benefited from European money since 2009.
0:35:03 > 0:35:08As a company we've worked with 300 young people on projects.
0:35:08 > 0:35:14That deals with cultural experiences for young people
0:35:14 > 0:35:17from deprived backgrounds.
0:35:17 > 0:35:21Those projects make a huge difference
0:35:21 > 0:35:23in the lives of young people.
0:35:23 > 0:35:27They often give them confidence
0:35:27 > 0:35:30and can change their lives sometimes.
0:35:30 > 0:35:33So I welcome the idea.
0:35:33 > 0:35:40But first I think we need a national debate about it.
0:35:40 > 0:35:43Europe touches us all, in a way.
0:35:43 > 0:35:47But something tells me if you asked ten people on the street
0:35:47 > 0:35:50what we get from Europe,
0:35:50 > 0:35:53you would not get much clarity on the matter.
0:35:53 > 0:35:57But three of you have been grateful for the money you received.
0:35:57 > 0:36:01I am, but sometimes the bureaucracy with the schemes,
0:36:01 > 0:36:06it can be a bit tiresome and should be looked at again.
0:36:06 > 0:36:09Thank you. Yes?
0:36:09 > 0:36:11Wales is doing well out of Europe.
0:36:11 > 0:36:14For every pound Wales gives to Europe, we get £40 back.
0:36:14 > 0:36:18If there was a referendum and England decided to opt out,
0:36:18 > 0:36:20what will happen to us?
0:36:20 > 0:36:22We'll answer that in a moment.
0:36:22 > 0:36:24At the back.
0:36:24 > 0:36:27All this talk of a referendum is causing uncertainty
0:36:27 > 0:36:30for agriculture and other industries.
0:36:30 > 0:36:33Leaving Europe is a very serious matter.
0:36:33 > 0:36:37I think that our rural areas would disintegrate.
0:36:37 > 0:36:43Agriculture benefits a lot from our connection with Europe.
0:36:43 > 0:36:50Is a referendum an effective way of dealing with such a big issue?
0:36:50 > 0:36:56This has come about because the Prime Minister wants to satisfy
0:36:56 > 0:36:59one group within his own party
0:36:59 > 0:37:02and he may have done that in the short-term.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05A pupil from Ysgol Y Berwyn.
0:37:05 > 0:37:07I agree with what you have to say.
0:37:07 > 0:37:11I feel David Cameron is trying to please the public
0:37:11 > 0:37:14because UKIP is trying to attract voters.
0:37:14 > 0:37:20He's trying to gain our attention rather than sort the problem out.
0:37:20 > 0:37:27- Yes?- I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the fact
0:37:27 > 0:37:31that Europe's accounts
0:37:31 > 0:37:36have been rejected... by auditors.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39In that sense,
0:37:39 > 0:37:44we're dealing with an establishment that is immoral
0:37:44 > 0:37:46and illegal.
0:37:46 > 0:37:49One more from the back row.
0:37:49 > 0:37:52When you talk about farmers getting money,
0:37:52 > 0:37:57farmers are very good at spending locally.
0:37:57 > 0:38:03Farmers help the local economy. But their wives spend more!
0:38:03 > 0:38:06And thanks to European money for that.
0:38:06 > 0:38:10We'll have a vote here in a minute to see who wants to stay in Europe
0:38:10 > 0:38:13and who doesn't. Elfyn?
0:38:13 > 0:38:16We're discussing this issue at the moment
0:38:16 > 0:38:19because the Prime Minister is in trouble.
0:38:19 > 0:38:23As Aled Roberts said, the Prime Minister is worried about UKIP
0:38:23 > 0:38:27and half of his party disagrees with him.
0:38:27 > 0:38:31He said in the House of Commons he wanted to push for a referendum
0:38:31 > 0:38:34but he will vote in favour of staying in Europe.
0:38:34 > 0:38:39What he's trying to say is that he is trying to get through
0:38:39 > 0:38:42to the next election without a referendum
0:38:42 > 0:38:46in order to win the next election. That's far from certain.
0:38:46 > 0:38:50He had the nerve to tell one of my colleagues in Scotland,
0:38:50 > 0:38:54he was asked, why do you criticise Alex Salmond
0:38:54 > 0:38:57for having a referendum in 18 months' time,
0:38:57 > 0:39:00which you say is too long,
0:39:00 > 0:39:03but you are willing to have one in five years?
0:39:03 > 0:39:06He's playing politics.
0:39:06 > 0:39:09It's an important issue.
0:39:09 > 0:39:13Dr Roberts is right. I'm not happy with a lot of things in Europe
0:39:13 > 0:39:15That's one thing.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18But there are also some wonderful aspects
0:39:18 > 0:39:22like the structural money and the agriculture money.
0:39:22 > 0:39:25But we get that because we're poor.
0:39:25 > 0:39:28I'm not proud of it, but I'm glad it's there.
0:39:28 > 0:39:30The point is that some things need to be done
0:39:30 > 0:39:33but you cannot change the club from outside.
0:39:33 > 0:39:37You have to stand on your feet and debate from within.
0:39:37 > 0:39:40A vote for the audience in a moment, but, Elfyn, a referendum, yes or no?
0:39:40 > 0:39:44If the people decide we should, then that's it.
0:39:44 > 0:39:48- Aled?- No problem with a referendum but the uncertainty's a problem.
0:39:48 > 0:39:50- Malan?- Yes.
0:39:50 > 0:39:52I don't have a problem.
0:39:52 > 0:39:57If there was a referendum, would you stay in Europe or not?
0:39:57 > 0:40:00Put your hands up if you would stay in Europe.
0:40:00 > 0:40:03Anybody want to pull out?
0:40:03 > 0:40:05Alwyn is one... two.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08Three. One at the back.
0:40:08 > 0:40:12The majority want to stay in Europe.
0:40:12 > 0:40:17I think we'll take a short break. Join us after the ads.
0:40:29 > 0:40:32Welcome back.
0:40:32 > 0:40:35Pawb a'i Farn is from Bala tonight.
0:40:35 > 0:40:39Let's go to our next question, from Mair Penri.
0:40:39 > 0:40:43Is the protest by Eos and Welsh musicians
0:40:43 > 0:40:46endangering the future of Radio Cymru?
0:40:46 > 0:40:50Mair asks, is the protest by Eos and Welsh musicians
0:40:50 > 0:40:53endangering the future of Radio Cymru?
0:40:53 > 0:40:57They don't want their music to be played on Radio Cymru
0:40:57 > 0:41:00until they're paid higher royalty payments.
0:41:00 > 0:41:03I'll start with you, Malan Wilkinson.
0:41:03 > 0:41:08I think the future of Radio Cymru as we know it
0:41:08 > 0:41:10is in the balance.
0:41:10 > 0:41:15There's still no agreement between the BBC and Eos and Welsh musicians.
0:41:15 > 0:41:19I think this is a contractual matter between the BBC
0:41:19 > 0:41:21and the Welsh musicians.
0:41:21 > 0:41:26I get the impression that Radio Cymru is doing all that it can.
0:41:26 > 0:41:29They are eager to reach an agreement.
0:41:29 > 0:41:32There's no doubt that since the company that collects royalties
0:41:32 > 0:41:37changed the way it moves the money in 2007,
0:41:37 > 0:41:43Welsh musicians have lost up to 85% of their income.
0:41:43 > 0:41:47- But not before then? - Not before then.
0:41:47 > 0:41:50Maybe they were receiving too much before then,
0:41:50 > 0:41:53but that is a different question.
0:41:53 > 0:41:56I want to see an agreement now.
0:41:56 > 0:41:59We need to nurture our musicians.
0:41:59 > 0:42:04We need a lively and modern platform through Radio Cymru.
0:42:04 > 0:42:10Radio Cymru has been criticised in the last few weeks
0:42:10 > 0:42:13but I feel there is...
0:42:14 > 0:42:17..a gap in the output.
0:42:17 > 0:42:20I hope an agreement is reached soon.
0:42:20 > 0:42:23But on a positive note,
0:42:23 > 0:42:26I have enjoyed some of the diversity we have heard.
0:42:26 > 0:42:31I like classical music, folk music and world music...
0:42:31 > 0:42:34That's a lesson for the future.
0:42:34 > 0:42:37Maybe we'll have more of that in the future,
0:42:37 > 0:42:39without affecting Welsh musicians.
0:42:39 > 0:42:44You say you blame the PRS
0:42:44 > 0:42:46and maybe the BBC centrally,
0:42:46 > 0:42:49but are they right to target Radio Cymru?
0:42:49 > 0:42:53I think that it's fair that Radio Cymru
0:42:53 > 0:42:55is central to the discussions.
0:42:55 > 0:43:00If anything good has come from the situation,
0:43:00 > 0:43:02it's the establishment of Eos
0:43:02 > 0:43:06which is a voice for Welsh musicians.
0:43:06 > 0:43:09Although it is the PRS which has changed the system?
0:43:09 > 0:43:13The fact that Eos exists is good
0:43:13 > 0:43:16because it means that Welsh musicians can take responsibility
0:43:16 > 0:43:18for their future.
0:43:18 > 0:43:20I hope there is an agreement soon
0:43:20 > 0:43:25but I think that Radio Cymru has made every effort as well.
0:43:25 > 0:43:31We have heard from Rhodri Talfan Davies and Sian Gwynedd.
0:43:31 > 0:43:34Let's go Mair Penri who asked the question,
0:43:34 > 0:43:36what are you concerned about?
0:43:36 > 0:43:41I have asked this question because there are older people in Bala
0:43:41 > 0:43:43who are missing the service.
0:43:43 > 0:43:48It finishes at 9pm and the older people at home miss it.
0:43:48 > 0:43:51Middle-aged people and youngsters don't miss it?
0:43:51 > 0:43:53I'm talking about elderly people.
0:43:53 > 0:43:56They miss the company.
0:43:56 > 0:44:02Having said that, I can see their point of view.
0:44:02 > 0:44:05As I understand it,
0:44:05 > 0:44:09They only receive pennies these days
0:44:09 > 0:44:11and that is a disgrace.
0:44:11 > 0:44:14So I do support the Welsh musicians.
0:44:14 > 0:44:17Yes? At the back.
0:44:17 > 0:44:21I don't think that there has been enough political pressure
0:44:21 > 0:44:23to sort the problem out.
0:44:23 > 0:44:26If there was unfairness like this in any other field
0:44:26 > 0:44:28it would have been sorted out immediately.
0:44:28 > 0:44:34The BBC doesn't realise how much young people miss Radio Cymru.
0:44:34 > 0:44:38Welsh musicians don't have another platform to show their work.
0:44:38 > 0:44:40They turn to other stations.
0:44:40 > 0:44:44- But you say that the politicians have not done enough?- Yes.
0:44:44 > 0:44:46Let's turn to Elfyn Llwyd.
0:44:46 > 0:44:48I think that's true.
0:44:48 > 0:44:50Politicians have a role to play.
0:44:50 > 0:44:52At the end of the day,
0:44:52 > 0:44:56Radio Cymru receives money from the fee we pay.
0:44:56 > 0:45:02It receives £13.5 million a year to run Radio Cymru.
0:45:02 > 0:45:05What worries me is that it's a very unfair situation.
0:45:05 > 0:45:09Welsh musicians receive 49p a minute.
0:45:09 > 0:45:14The Asian Network gets £6.17 a minute.
0:45:14 > 0:45:18But there are four times as many Asian listeners
0:45:18 > 0:45:20as there are Welsh listeners.
0:45:20 > 0:45:24- That's the explanation.- So Welsh musicians should be getting £2.
0:45:24 > 0:45:26It should be £2 or more.
0:45:26 > 0:45:28So it's completely unfair.
0:45:28 > 0:45:31The musicians can't live on that kind of money.
0:45:31 > 0:45:36Should they be depending on Radio Cymru for their income?
0:45:36 > 0:45:41Yes, because they produce the work and people listen to it.
0:45:41 > 0:45:43As the young man said,
0:45:43 > 0:45:48it's the only platform for Welsh musicians.
0:45:48 > 0:45:50It's important that we protect it.
0:45:50 > 0:45:55What worries me is that the BBC Trust in Wales
0:45:55 > 0:45:58is now sitting on its hands. They don't seem to be doing much.
0:45:58 > 0:46:01I don't think they're doing enough.
0:46:01 > 0:46:05And what happens, they are waiting to receive orders from London.
0:46:05 > 0:46:07There's no point having these trustees.
0:46:07 > 0:46:12But where's the political pressure?
0:46:12 > 0:46:16I think that the Welsh Government should intervene.
0:46:16 > 0:46:19This comes at the same time
0:46:19 > 0:46:22as we've had these terrible Census figures.
0:46:22 > 0:46:26It endangers the Welsh language, the Welsh communities
0:46:26 > 0:46:27and Welsh culture.
0:46:27 > 0:46:30And it does endanger the future of Radio Cymru.
0:46:30 > 0:46:33If Radio Cymru does not play Welsh music,
0:46:33 > 0:46:36there's no point having it.
0:46:36 > 0:46:40There are other station that play classical music and so on.
0:46:40 > 0:46:43It's important that the politicians
0:46:43 > 0:46:49get the parties around the table and come to some kind of solution.
0:46:49 > 0:46:52- You look shocked. - Better late than never, I say.
0:46:52 > 0:46:56This has been a serious situation since 2007.
0:46:56 > 0:46:59We need more leadership from politicians.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02I'm amazed it has taken so long.
0:47:02 > 0:47:06We don't know much about the details of the row at the moment
0:47:06 > 0:47:08but this problem must be settled.
0:47:08 > 0:47:11The sooner this is settled, the better.
0:47:11 > 0:47:15Radio Cymru is crucial to the future of the Welsh language.
0:47:15 > 0:47:21The Welsh musicians, how much have they contributed
0:47:21 > 0:47:24to sustaining the Welsh language over the years?
0:47:24 > 0:47:29But should that income come from Radio Cymru's budget?
0:47:29 > 0:47:33Yes, as that is how broadcasting works.
0:47:33 > 0:47:38- Aled Roberts?- I enjoyed listening to Wrexham's game in Alfreton.
0:47:38 > 0:47:42I may not have heard that without this dispute.
0:47:42 > 0:47:47We've heard about the problem.
0:47:47 > 0:47:50The formula is complicated.
0:47:50 > 0:47:53There have been discussions in Cardiff between the parties and Eos.
0:47:53 > 0:47:56An offer has been placed before their members,
0:47:56 > 0:48:01but if the dispute is not solved, politicians will have to intervene.
0:48:01 > 0:48:07Thank you very much. That's the end of our programme.
0:48:07 > 0:48:11Thank you to the audience.
0:48:11 > 0:48:15The weather in Meirionnydd is better than last time.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18Thank you to the panel.
0:48:18 > 0:48:22Next week we will be in Welshpool.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25I hope that you can join us then, but for now, good night.