10/09/2011

:00:09. > :00:14.Good morning and welcome to live coverage of the Plaid Cymru

:00:14. > :00:24.conference in Llandudno. The leader has made his final speech, the race

:00:24. > :00:32.

:00:32. > :00:36.Yes, a warm welcome to Venue Cymru, the last day of the Plaid Cymru

:00:36. > :00:42.conference. It has been a mixed year, from the euphoria of the yes

:00:42. > :00:47.vote in that referendum in March to just two months later, the party's

:00:47. > :00:51.worst-ever performance in Assembly elections. Does the party needed

:00:51. > :01:01.new direction? Stay with us for the next two hours. We will be watching

:01:01. > :01:07.them all. Our political editor, Bethan powers. Is there a feeling

:01:07. > :01:11.of a new chapter here? There is. You find quite often with these

:01:11. > :01:17.conferences, you expect them to be very downbeat. But it has not been

:01:17. > :01:21.like that. It is a party with a fight on its hand. But the seam up

:01:21. > :01:26.for the fight. This is an opportunity for those who want to

:01:26. > :01:30.see change, they are pushing for it. You see it on the conference floor.

:01:30. > :01:35.You do not often see that at any conference, let alone Plaid Cymru

:01:35. > :01:42.conferences. It is all about to be given a good shake, but they seem

:01:42. > :01:45.to think that is no bad thing. let us go to the hall, and our team

:01:45. > :01:50.there, John Stephenson will be guiding us through events within

:01:50. > :02:00.the conference hall. As you say, there is a wind of change blowing

:02:00. > :02:08.through the party, a new leader, a policy review. They hope these

:02:08. > :02:15.amendments will form the basis of future success. Also with us, Mark

:02:15. > :02:18.Hannaby who is down in the foyer, talking to delegates. The people in

:02:19. > :02:22.the hall had just had the leadership candidates saying that

:02:22. > :02:26.Plaid Cymru needs to broaden its appeal, extend its reach, be more

:02:26. > :02:30.attractive to people if it is to move forward. I will catch up with

:02:30. > :02:37.some delegates to hear how the party hopes to do that. We will be

:02:37. > :02:45.back at mark shortly. We will hear that speech by Elin Jones as well.

:02:45. > :02:50.Betsan Powys, the race has begun, but yesterday, quite an emotional

:02:50. > :02:54.and personal speech? I thought he looked hugely relieved. You never

:02:54. > :02:58.used to allow us to film in the morning of the speech, but

:02:58. > :03:06.yesterday, he was quite different, he was quite relaxed. I thought it

:03:06. > :03:13.was a look of relief. But his messages were very clear. We will

:03:13. > :03:16.be -- we have to broaden our appeal, learn from mistakes. Do not rush

:03:16. > :03:21.back into the heartlands. You number one aim has to be to get

:03:21. > :03:26.back into Government. Do not turn into a party that goes back to

:03:26. > :03:30.being what is regarded as a bit of a national movement, a pressure

:03:30. > :03:34.group, a religious sect is the way he put it. We are a constitutional

:03:34. > :03:43.political party and the aim of such a party has to be to govern, to be

:03:43. > :03:50.in Government. Not everyone agrees, though. They have been Motion's

:03:50. > :03:57.never to go into coalitions again. Everyone believed that any moment

:03:57. > :04:00.now, she may be declared a candidate to succeed Ieuan Wyn

:04:00. > :04:02.Jones. We are constitutional political party but politics in

:04:03. > :04:07.Wales is about more than institutions and elections, it is

:04:07. > :04:12.about campaigning. A message that was when they received in the hall.

:04:12. > :04:17.We can argue, who would argue against that? But what does it

:04:17. > :04:20.actually mean? What we have seen us lots of votes on logistical issues,

:04:20. > :04:24.let us what to say we will not going to collision with the Tories,

:04:24. > :04:28.let us vote is say we will not pay our licence fees because we are

:04:28. > :04:31.concerned about the future of broadcasting and Wales. We have

:04:31. > :04:37.seen party officials standing around and looking nervous. The one

:04:37. > :04:43.on nuclear energy this morning, certainly they looked very nervous.

:04:43. > :04:50.We will hear that nuclear debate as well, it was quite lively. In terms

:04:50. > :04:59.of the runners, we will hear from Elin Jones, anybody else? Daffyd

:04:59. > :05:03.Elis-Thomas is in the race. He has not sat behind a desk or a podium

:05:03. > :05:09.and said, right, here I am and I am now a candidate. It does not work

:05:09. > :05:15.like that in his case. But from now on, we mentioned him, as we do Elin

:05:15. > :05:24.Jones, she is standing. Simon Thomas, I have had more than one

:05:24. > :05:29.person say Simon Thomas and Elin Jones together. Quite a few people

:05:29. > :05:39.talking about names who have only been in the Assembly for a bit

:05:39. > :05:40.

:05:40. > :05:45.longer. But the big name all the time is Adam price. His effect on

:05:45. > :05:50.this race, is he going to come back one day and stand? Definitely there

:05:50. > :05:54.in the background. Thank you very much for now. We will speak to you

:05:54. > :05:59.later. Throughout the morning, we will hear from most of those names.

:05:59. > :06:04.Let us start with the speech of one of them, the former minister from

:06:04. > :06:09.rural affairs, Elin Jones, who addressed the conference a few

:06:10. > :06:15.hours to go. Good morning, conference.

:06:15. > :06:22.Tomorrow, I'm sure we will all remember the evil attack ten years

:06:22. > :06:27.ago on the United States, including the incredible demolition of the

:06:27. > :06:32.two towers, the needless murder of ordinary people, going about their

:06:32. > :06:38.everyday lives. And the beginning of that decade of needless wars

:06:39. > :06:44.with thousands more losing their lives. In the weeks following the

:06:44. > :06:48.9/11, the United States and the UK started to bomb Afghanistan. Plaid

:06:48. > :06:54.Cymru stated their opposition to the bombing. The first elected

:06:54. > :07:00.party in the country -- countries of Britain to do so. When the

:07:00. > :07:05.political opinion was going in one direction on the, Plaid Cymru

:07:05. > :07:11.showed the independence of mind to question the short-sighted military

:07:11. > :07:18.response. I remember listening to the discussion that led to the

:07:18. > :07:28.decision to opponents. A slight nervousness. Which when we decided

:07:28. > :07:31.

:07:31. > :07:35.to go so contrary to the unanimous flow of opinion, there was fierce

:07:35. > :07:42.opposition to play Cymru, but ten years afterwards, who was right to

:07:43. > :07:48.question? We were. I remember how proud I was and that time of the

:07:48. > :07:53.independence that was shown. This party as an interest beyond Wales.

:07:53. > :07:58.Justice for people across the world is important to us and some of the

:07:58. > :08:06.best powers of his party have dealt with issues that are far beyond the

:08:06. > :08:14.boundaries. I was also pleased to listen this year on the floor of

:08:14. > :08:18.the House of Commons giving support for military intervention in that -

:08:18. > :08:21.- Libya. We are not a selfish and inward-looking party. We are a

:08:21. > :08:25.reflection of a country and the people who have long taken an

:08:25. > :08:29.interest in the welfare of people of countries are -- across the

:08:29. > :08:39.world. We want the same freedom and they say justice for people in all

:08:39. > :08:43.parts of the world. But there are other people who can fight foreign

:08:43. > :08:47.causes. We are the only ones to fight for the cause of Wales and

:08:47. > :08:54.even that the establishment of a democratic Parliament, the case of

:08:54. > :08:57.Wales continues and the need for Plaid Cymru is as strong as ever.

:08:57. > :09:02.Occasionally, I hear a long- standing member nostalgically

:09:02. > :09:12.comment, this is not the same party I joined 40 years ago. No, it is

:09:12. > :09:16.

:09:16. > :09:20.not. And thank God it is not! 40 years ago, when the Welsh nation

:09:20. > :09:25.had women scantily-clad on the front page, proclaiming their

:09:25. > :09:29.never-ending love for Plaid Cymru, that was 40 years ago, or when in

:09:29. > :09:39.Kheredine de UN, there were more election posters than votes for

:09:39. > :09:39.

:09:39. > :09:45.Plaid Cymru. -- Kheredine t M. Nor is it the same party I joined 20

:09:45. > :09:48.years ago, when meat had made a major breakthrough and moved to

:09:48. > :09:53.four elected members and the prospect of an elected Parliament

:09:53. > :09:59.for Wales seemed a faraway dream. This party has changed and is

:09:59. > :10:02.continuing to change, because Wales is changing. That is what we want,

:10:02. > :10:08.we are the ones who do not want the status quo, we want change. So we

:10:08. > :10:15.must embrace change ourselves. But there are so many changes in Plaid

:10:15. > :10:19.Cymru. Our branding, are messaging, our name, are ways of working. Our

:10:19. > :10:23.core beliefs have stayed the same. We want our country to be a free

:10:23. > :10:28.and democratic nation and we want our people to have justice and

:10:28. > :10:33.prosperity. Free, fair and flourishing. That was the aim 40

:10:33. > :10:37.years ago and remains so today. Only a suggests kindly that we are

:10:37. > :10:40.closer to realising our ambitions today. But they did talk to one

:10:40. > :10:46.Plaid Cymru member earlier this week who was also a Christian, he

:10:46. > :10:53.told me he believed into things, Heaven and independence. He did not

:10:53. > :11:02.believe however that he would see either! I did not tell him that of

:11:02. > :11:07.the two, he is more likely to see heaven and independence. Because

:11:07. > :11:10.however, independence for our nation is not achieved by two Plaid

:11:10. > :11:14.Cymru members saying it often enough or wishing for it hard

:11:15. > :11:22.enough and then, hey presto, it happens. Independence is not forced

:11:22. > :11:27.on the people of Wales by Plaid Cymru. It is denied the people of

:11:27. > :11:31.Wales by the British Unionist Party. Sometimes, the people of Wales may

:11:31. > :11:35.opt for the status quo, but sometimes they will decide they are

:11:35. > :11:41.not well served by that status quo and opt for change. Other countries

:11:41. > :11:46.are doing so. Wales has played some impressive football against two

:11:47. > :11:51.other countries this week, Montenegro and England. Montenegro

:11:51. > :11:57.hosted their own referendum in 2006 in favour of an independent state.

:11:57. > :12:01.It has a national Parliament, is a member of the UN and a candidate

:12:01. > :12:07.country for EU membership. England has no national Parliament, nor is

:12:08. > :12:17.it a member of the EU or the UN. -- it could be said that Wales is more

:12:18. > :12:21.

:12:21. > :12:26.The constitutional imbalance of the UK is unsustainable and a possible

:12:26. > :12:30.Yes vote for Scottish independence will change the UK irrevocably.

:12:30. > :12:33.There needs to be a constitutional and fiscal debate within the four

:12:33. > :12:37.countries of the UK and more especially, between the four

:12:37. > :12:41.countries of the UK. We need to consider options on how the four

:12:41. > :12:45.countries can work together and work separately in the 21st century.

:12:45. > :12:48.This should always be a close working relationship between those

:12:49. > :12:54.four countries, whatever the constitutional settlement. The free

:12:54. > :12:59.movement of people and trade, common currency and according to

:12:59. > :13:03.Alex Salmond,, monarchy. It is not one glorious step to independence,

:13:03. > :13:06.otherwise it would be a hell of a big step. We cannot just jump to

:13:06. > :13:11.the final chapter, because the people of Wales are still reading

:13:11. > :13:15.the book. To aim for our country's independence, and this is the last

:13:15. > :13:19.time I will use the word in the speech, because by now I am sure

:13:20. > :13:23.someone has started a word count of how many times I have mentioned it,

:13:23. > :13:33.but to aim for independence is simple and straightforward. But it

:13:33. > :13:37.

:13:37. > :13:44.We need to work to ensure more powers are transferred from

:13:44. > :13:48.Westminster to Ensenda. Control of our police, broadcasting and

:13:48. > :13:54.natural resources. Powers on responsibility must go hand in hand.

:13:54. > :13:57.We are not obsessed with powers for Power's sake. We believe there is a

:13:57. > :14:01.historical and the national legitimacy to Wales, but we also

:14:01. > :14:06.believe that Wales would be better served by decisions affecting the

:14:06. > :14:10.people of Wales being taken by people in Wales. Decisions close to

:14:10. > :14:16.the people and while accountable to the people and more reflective of

:14:16. > :14:26.the people. There is no doubt, and while I consider if there is any

:14:26. > :14:29.

:14:29. > :14:39.doubt on not, I will have a drink of water. I have considered it and

:14:39. > :14:40.

:14:40. > :14:45.there is no doubt. There is no doubt. That bit was not grit -- was

:14:45. > :14:50.not scripted, by the way. There is no doubt that the number one

:14:50. > :14:57.priority for Wales is the economy. There is change occurring in the

:14:57. > :15:02.world economy. The bastions of the old economic order are all swaying

:15:02. > :15:06.on precipices. What was seen as solid heavyweights are no longer

:15:06. > :15:11.viewed as such. In wares, our businesses and communities stand

:15:11. > :15:15.powerless in this uncertain world. The government has rejected a

:15:15. > :15:21.fiscal stimulus to invigorate growth. The Welsh government is

:15:21. > :15:25.equally resisting our call for a capital investment fund to

:15:25. > :15:30.stimulate the economy. We went to see Welsh businesses flourish and

:15:30. > :15:33.our economy grow. We need to be listening to the views of

:15:33. > :15:38.businesses and need to champion their cause. But we also need more

:15:38. > :15:43.government, fiscal and economic levers in Wales. After all, who

:15:43. > :15:49.would do a better job in charge of our economic prospects? Danny

:15:49. > :15:57.Alexander or Adam Price? As we aspire to further constitutional

:15:57. > :16:02.reform and greater prosperity, what of Plaid Cymru itself? Rose needs a

:16:02. > :16:05.healthy Plaid Cymru. Without the ambition, and to drive and has of

:16:05. > :16:11.Plaid Cymru, nothing is achieved for this country. Sometimes, others

:16:11. > :16:15.will have to live a change, but no other political party will seek all

:16:16. > :16:22.drive changed. There are any ambition is power for Power's sake,

:16:22. > :16:27.not power for changes sake. Elektra success for Plaid Cymru is crucial

:16:27. > :16:31.in building Wales and to delivering change. We have stagnated of late.

:16:31. > :16:35.At times we have failed to motivate ourselves but more importantly, we

:16:35. > :16:42.have failed to motivate others to believe that we deserve to be more

:16:42. > :16:45.than somebody else's afterthought. We have invested great

:16:45. > :16:50.responsibility on Eurfyl ap Gwilym to shape our future and I look

:16:50. > :16:54.forward to his work. One thing is clear. As a party and as

:16:54. > :16:57.individuals and elected members within his party, we need to reach

:16:57. > :17:05.out and listen to what more people in Wales. We know that so many

:17:05. > :17:08.people are patriotic in Wales. We need to open our doors in wares to

:17:08. > :17:12.more people, even if some of them are challenging to our comfort

:17:12. > :17:17.zones. We need to have the debate with more people. Not only should

:17:17. > :17:21.we be addressing the peace rally or the Language Valley or the picket

:17:21. > :17:28.line or the farmers' union meeting, we need to be addressing the Ladies

:17:28. > :17:32.Circle, the chambers of Trade and others. If people are ambitious for

:17:32. > :17:39.themselves and their community, then Plaid Cymru is for them. Plaid

:17:39. > :17:45.Cymru favours no language, no race, no place of birth. There is a place

:17:45. > :17:50.in Plaid Cymru for the Welsh language activist, the Swansea

:17:50. > :17:56.plumber or, as long as their cause is Wales. There is a place for the

:17:57. > :18:01.soldier and the pacifist, as long as they cause is in Wales. Probably,

:18:01. > :18:07.the most persuasive power I have seen on a doorstep canvassing was a

:18:07. > :18:14.powerful mix of an ex soldier and a pacifist. The voters had no chance

:18:14. > :18:19.with them on their doorstep. As Plaid Cymru members, we must resist

:18:19. > :18:22.the just speaking to each other or to those fringe groups that will

:18:22. > :18:28.seek our support to advance their cause, we have a cause of our own,

:18:29. > :18:32.a country to create. As a few 1000 Plaid Cymru members, we cannot do

:18:32. > :18:37.it alone, we need the majority of people to join in and become

:18:38. > :18:41.involved, to make their cause Wales. Sometimes, we will advance the

:18:41. > :18:45.cause of Wales from outside government and sometimes from

:18:45. > :18:49.within government, but I have no doubt that it is best advanced from

:18:49. > :18:54.within government, by the that is local government or Welsh

:18:54. > :18:58.government. We achieved so much for the cause of the ways in the One

:18:58. > :19:02.Wales government and we should never play that down. In that

:19:02. > :19:08.government, this current Plaid Cymru leader became the Deputy

:19:08. > :19:12.First Minister of Wales. The next Plaid Cymru leader must become the

:19:12. > :19:22.First Minister. We cannot allow it Wales to become a one-party Labour

:19:22. > :19:25.

:19:25. > :19:35.state. We cannot have 20 years of Carwyn Jones. We have had less than

:19:35. > :19:36.

:19:36. > :19:42.two years and I am bored already. What is more worrying, I think

:19:42. > :19:45.Carwyn Jones is thought also. And no wonder he needed a trip to break

:19:45. > :19:50.his boredom to New Zealand. If he did something, he would not find

:19:50. > :19:56.his role so monotonous. A man with such little ambition for Wales and

:19:56. > :20:03.in the words of a not so famous Swansea poet, ambition is critical.

:20:03. > :20:05.I can just picture him now, leaning heavily on the plastic the podium,

:20:05. > :20:10.answering first Minister's Questions in the Assembly and

:20:10. > :20:15.saying, no, thank you very much, I do not want to see broadcasting

:20:16. > :20:20.devolved to Wales, I would much rather have that might -- nice Tory

:20:20. > :20:26.responsible for switching cuts to the BBC and decimating S4C. This

:20:26. > :20:29.their powers are not too sure what they are, so I will not ask for any.

:20:29. > :20:36.But if they are offered, maybe we will see. It depends whether

:20:36. > :20:42.Scotland get them and what Northern Ireland want. I may, I may be

:20:42. > :20:49.bothered to ask for power was over a large gay energy prop jets, but

:20:49. > :20:54.not too much, or -- large-scale energy projects. I believe that the

:20:55. > :20:58.big wind farms in the valleys to that very nice Liberal Democrat MP.

:20:58. > :21:02.I would not want my ministers to have to take difficult decisions.

:21:02. > :21:12.But is much easier to let someone else to side and then I will stand

:21:12. > :21:14.

:21:14. > :21:19.up for Wales. With a poster, and then I will stand up for Wales with

:21:19. > :21:24.a big poster of meat, Carwyn Jones, standing up for Wales, behind me,

:21:24. > :21:34.just to make the point. That is what he would say, not me. This is

:21:34. > :21:37.what this Labour government is, it is a sham. They are my words. Their

:21:37. > :21:43.mandate is to supposedly stand up for Wales, but they have neither

:21:43. > :21:48.the power to do that and all the ambition to seek that power away

:21:48. > :21:52.from those condemns who hold power. They have no programme of

:21:52. > :22:00.government, only a legislative programme. Some of which is

:22:00. > :22:06.commendable, other parts of which are questionable. They expect a law

:22:06. > :22:10.to enforce local neighbouring authorities to appoint staff gently.

:22:10. > :22:19.Five years in front of us of Carwyn Jones sitting down for Wales. Along

:22:19. > :22:24.with four more years of the wreaking havoc on Wales. Where will

:22:24. > :22:30.we be by 2016? We deserve much better. We have not been served

:22:30. > :22:36.well by a century of Westminster government. We have been denied

:22:36. > :22:39.proper investment to generate our economy and we are repeatedly

:22:39. > :22:44.refused settlement for our services. We can be a so much more than the

:22:44. > :22:49.poor, sick man of Europe. We cannot allow Labour to keep us there.

:22:49. > :22:52.Other countries have climbed the prosperity ladder with the right

:22:52. > :22:57.combination of tools for the job and political will. Our schools can

:22:57. > :23:02.be better, our businesses can flourish, we can achieve far

:23:02. > :23:09.greater energy and food self- sufficiency. Our people can live

:23:09. > :23:13.healthier, their lives. We need to Plaid Cymru more than ever. It is

:23:13. > :23:23.our responsibility, it is our responsibility not to let Wales

:23:23. > :23:23.

:23:23. > :23:29.Elin Jones addressing the conference earlier this morning.

:23:29. > :23:32.She joins us now. Along with party president Gil Evans. Think you for

:23:32. > :23:38.joining us. I know the conference hall is waiting for your speech. We

:23:38. > :23:41.will get through this very quickly. Elin Jones, playing independence

:23:41. > :23:45.and bingo. How many times did you mention it? I was hoping someone

:23:45. > :23:50.else would make the word count. What I said to the conference, it

:23:50. > :23:54.is not a matter of how many times a Plaid Cymru member says the word

:23:54. > :23:58.independence, it does not happen overnight. It is the people and

:23:58. > :24:03.will decide on the future conference of Wales, it is not

:24:03. > :24:09.Plaid Cymru who makes them decide that. But you know that people are

:24:09. > :24:13.looking at the independence debate cheer this weekend. Whether you are

:24:13. > :24:20.more out and out about it or not. You went out of your way to address

:24:20. > :24:24.the issue. Do you think you failed to do that in recent years? I think

:24:24. > :24:30.it is important that Plaid Cymru does not hide from the people of

:24:30. > :24:34.Wales that are long-term ambition is for the people to decide that we

:24:34. > :24:38.want to be an independent state because we think that dependency on

:24:38. > :24:43.a Westminster government has not served as well. Independence could

:24:43. > :24:46.serve as better. But does not happen overnight. We need to build

:24:47. > :24:52.wares and we need a stronger obstructions, institutions in boats

:24:52. > :24:57.and a stronger economy. We went, as Plaid Cymru, to work on that and to

:24:57. > :25:02.work with the businesses on that. Is this the next leader of your

:25:02. > :25:05.party? The nominations have not opened yet so obviously Elin Jones

:25:05. > :25:11.is one of the candidates and I am sure we have a very interesting

:25:11. > :25:15.time ahead. Did you like what she said? Yes. She is absolutely right.

:25:15. > :25:19.She has summed up completely what the current position of the party

:25:19. > :25:25.years. We do need to start looking at what independence will really

:25:25. > :25:29.meal. -- Amin. For people outside Plaid Cymru who do not agree, they

:25:29. > :25:33.will have no choice other than to look at what the implications are.

:25:33. > :25:37.Events in Scotland will set the UK agenda for the next five years. We

:25:37. > :25:42.have to look at where we fit into this whole pattern and make sure

:25:42. > :25:46.that we are not left behind, as Scotland rose ahead towards

:25:46. > :25:50.independence. We have to look at the facts and figures.

:25:50. > :25:55.mentioned that a friend was on his bus pass and probably will not see

:25:55. > :25:58.independence. In terms of a timescale, can you set when a tall

:25:58. > :26:03.or was it a distant dream for the party and taking the people of

:26:03. > :26:07.Wales along it, they will set the pace? It is the people of Wales

:26:07. > :26:11.that set the pace. Plaid Cymru understand that. I think Plaid

:26:11. > :26:17.Cymru needs to have the debate more honestly. You have not been honest

:26:17. > :26:22.about it? I think what we need to do, we focus very clearly on

:26:22. > :26:26.getting a legislative parliament and we have succeeded in doing that.

:26:26. > :26:29.We voted unanimously throughout wears and it was great to see if

:26:29. > :26:33.such strength and feeling towards a legislative parliament in Wales.

:26:33. > :26:39.But we believe there are other powers that be to be devolved to

:26:39. > :26:43.Wales, power was on a policing and broadcasting and control over our

:26:43. > :26:48.natural resources. But there is such a lot for us to do to keep it

:26:48. > :26:52.building our nation. We are ambitious foreign nation and we

:26:52. > :26:58.went to be a fully fledged a nation in the world, not to put up

:26:58. > :27:05.barriers, to break down barriers. To give Wales a voice and a

:27:05. > :27:09.platform in the world. We have new nations having that advice. Monte

:27:09. > :27:14.Negro only became a nation of five years ago. In order to influence,

:27:14. > :27:21.you have to be in power. At what price? There is a debate going on

:27:21. > :27:25.here this weekend about whether or not we should re-enter a coalition

:27:25. > :27:30.with Carwyn Jones. You clearly do not want to give an your

:27:30. > :27:35.impersonation of Carwyn Jones. Jill Evans, if the opportunity came,

:27:35. > :27:41.would you urge the party to get back into power? Again, it is a

:27:41. > :27:45.decision made by the members at the time. In principle? I think what we

:27:45. > :27:49.need to do now is clearly established Plaid Cymru identity

:27:49. > :27:53.and really have a clear message for the people of Wales. I think that

:27:54. > :27:57.is something we are going to be talking about in the review in the

:27:57. > :28:01.coming few months. From the conversations I have had with

:28:01. > :28:07.members, what is clear is that there is absolute unity within the

:28:07. > :28:11.party. People know where we want to go. We need to develop the ideas,

:28:11. > :28:16.policies. We need to present our options to the people more clearly

:28:16. > :28:23.than we have done. We need to take every opportunity to influence the

:28:23. > :28:32.debate, to influence the constitution. In the Assembly, we

:28:32. > :28:37.are looking to form a government Elin Jones, how will you be

:28:37. > :28:42.different from the other candidates? What is your unique

:28:43. > :28:46.selling point? A one Plaid Cymru to communicate all the people of Wales,

:28:46. > :28:53.we are party that is ambitious for Wales and we want to see Wales as a

:28:53. > :28:59.stronger nation. But all candidates say that. But to an extent, that is

:28:59. > :29:09.what is great about the contest within the party, we do have unity

:29:09. > :29:09.

:29:09. > :29:19.of purpose. It is just a matter of who you fancy? Significantly, any

:29:19. > :29:26.other leadership contest, we are on the same political party. It is a

:29:26. > :29:34.new period for our party and our country. How would you be different

:29:34. > :29:38.to Ieuan Wyn Jones? We have worked well together as assembly members

:29:38. > :29:43.and I was impressed by his chum of leadership. We have achieved so

:29:43. > :29:46.much over the last ten years, more especially in Wales. If he has

:29:46. > :29:51.achieved anything, he has shown the people of Wales that as a leader of

:29:51. > :29:55.Plaid Cymru, he has been willing to put the interests of Wales before

:29:55. > :30:01.his own personal, political interests, because she is the man

:30:01. > :30:06.who decided not to become the First Minister of Wales when he had the

:30:06. > :30:09.opportunity in 2007. He decided to become the Deputy First Minister in

:30:09. > :30:13.a Labour an Plaid Cymru coalition to further the cause of wills and

:30:13. > :30:21.to allow a referendum to make the Parliament for Wales this year.

:30:21. > :30:27.That is his legacy. It is a new period, an exciting period for the

:30:27. > :30:31.party. We have a new leader, a new Parliament, are assembly now has

:30:31. > :30:36.parliamentary powers. I feel a real excitement from the members in the

:30:36. > :30:40.conference. We are looking ahead. Thank you both very much. Jill

:30:40. > :30:45.Evans, Elin Jones, thank you very much. We will hear from some other

:30:45. > :30:48.candidates later. Let us go down to the foyer, to mark.

:30:48. > :30:55.I am joined by two people who are very well placed to answer this

:30:55. > :31:00.question of whether party goes from here, Hywel Williams and Helen Mary

:31:00. > :31:04.Jones. I want to pick up, of your ideas, this notion that if you lock

:31:04. > :31:06.out the Conservatives and say Plaid Cymru will not deal with the

:31:06. > :31:10.Conservatives in a mess of the gunmen, that might help you are

:31:10. > :31:14.literally? That is my cue, be debated at in conference yesterday

:31:14. > :31:19.and took the decision we will revisit the issue when we have a

:31:19. > :31:25.chance to look a more death on the way that has impacted, how much it

:31:25. > :31:29.helps. I believe that while Labour can say in certain communities in

:31:29. > :31:35.the valleys, but not just in the Valleys, if you vote for Plaid

:31:35. > :31:39.Cymru, you risk -- having the Budget in wells run by Tories, we

:31:39. > :31:44.are very clear that is why we lost this season we did not do well

:31:44. > :31:48.anywhere across the south this time. I think the way to deal with that

:31:48. > :31:52.is to rule out a coalition. If we do not rule out a coalition, Bebo

:31:52. > :32:00.have to find another way of dealing with a problem. It will continue to

:32:00. > :32:05.come back to us. -- we will have to find. What do you make of that,

:32:05. > :32:08.Howell Williams? If you let the coalition, it might help you in

:32:08. > :32:18.some seats, but it will give you problem when you are in negotiation

:32:18. > :32:19.

:32:19. > :32:22.with Labour. We are party with many talented people, and we have a lot

:32:22. > :32:26.to offer, as Carwyn Jones is finding out to his cost. That is

:32:26. > :32:31.what we bring to the table, a lot of our own creative ideas and

:32:31. > :32:37.vision for Wales. Thinking back to last time, it was very powerful in

:32:37. > :32:43.Plaid Cymru's hand that Labour new you might have gone into coalition

:32:43. > :32:46.with the Conservatives and the Lib Dems. It certainly was. We are in a

:32:47. > :32:50.different situation now, we have a very dangerous, right wing

:32:50. > :32:55.Conservative Government in London that people are very frightened off.

:32:55. > :32:59.I worry about us constantly saying we will negotiate with whoever, I

:32:59. > :33:04.want to beat Labour and the Conservatives in the ballot box. We

:33:04. > :33:09.have to be confident enough to say, -- not to say, we will come second

:33:09. > :33:13.or third. We need to beat them and do what the SNP has done and put

:33:13. > :33:17.Labour out of Government in Wales and out through the front door.

:33:17. > :33:27.While Labour can say a few bob for Plaid Cymru, you could get the

:33:27. > :33:28.

:33:28. > :33:33.Tories, that will be a difficult thing to do. -- if you vote.

:33:33. > :33:37.coalition question is one for every party of Wales. Ask the Liberals

:33:37. > :33:43.what they think of their coalition and London. And ask what the right

:33:43. > :33:45.wing Tories think of their marriage to the Lib Dems. But we are at the

:33:45. > :33:49.Plaid Cymru Conference and you had your leader says it was imperative

:33:49. > :33:55.you get back into Government. In the real-world, you are more likely

:33:55. > :34:00.to getting by a coalition. Quite possibly, but Labour should no

:34:00. > :34:06.ambition is to getting through the front door. By beating them. And in

:34:06. > :34:08.the medium term, we have a prospect of doing that. If you look at the

:34:08. > :34:12.agendas and ideas at this conference, you would not be

:34:12. > :34:17.surprised to learn that we want to be in Government. Every political

:34:17. > :34:24.party wants that, of course. Moving on from that notion of coalition,

:34:24. > :34:28.some women on at the election last year. -- something went wrong.

:34:28. > :34:31.is what the review is four and one of the positive things in the

:34:31. > :34:34.months after May and leading up to the conference is the way members

:34:34. > :34:39.have really engaged with the process of looking at what we need

:34:39. > :34:43.to do next. We did not get our message is as sharp as we could

:34:43. > :34:48.have done. The business of if you vote for Plaid Cymru, you could end

:34:48. > :34:51.up with Tories in Government, that was a major factor. That is what

:34:51. > :34:55.the new process is all about. One thing that is clear is that our

:34:55. > :34:59.great strength as a party is our Grassmoor -- grassroots members.

:34:59. > :35:03.One thing I need to do is re- energised those members and ensure

:35:03. > :35:07.they feel it is their party, the decision has not made by a few

:35:07. > :35:15.people in one room, but the way for it is decided by all of us together,

:35:15. > :35:19.which is why I am standing as a lecturer for cheer. Some people

:35:19. > :35:23.forget I won seats of Labour in the general election and we did that by

:35:23. > :35:27.having lots of people at on the doorstep. We are local party and

:35:27. > :35:33.the National Party, that is what we'd want to develop. Thank-you

:35:33. > :35:37.both very much. Enjoy the conference.

:35:37. > :35:41.One of the most hotly-contested debates in any Plaid Cymru

:35:41. > :35:45.conference is the one about nuclear power. It happened this morning and

:35:45. > :35:49.the party's official stance on the subject is to opposed the building

:35:49. > :35:55.of any new power stations in Wales. Quite a tricky subject for the

:35:55. > :36:02.party's leader, Ieuan Wyn Jones, who is also the AM for Anglesey.

:36:02. > :36:12.This is how it went. In March this year, in the

:36:12. > :36:14.aftermath of the earth quake and ceramic, -- ceramic, the people of

:36:14. > :36:20.Japan it is the devastating accident. This happened just as the

:36:20. > :36:24.industry was about so that the 25th anniversary of the Chernobyl

:36:24. > :36:28.disaster and what they wanted to proclaim as a safe age of nuclear

:36:28. > :36:33.power. But it all went wrong again. Saturday kilometre exclusion zone

:36:34. > :36:37.was set up immediately, 170,000 people were evacuated from the area.

:36:37. > :36:43.We do not yet know the full effects of the disaster, and we probably

:36:43. > :36:49.never will. But we do know that the environment, health and food were

:36:49. > :36:53.damaged and contaminated. I went to Chernobyl in 2006 to see for myself

:36:53. > :36:57.what the after effects were and it was horrific. Miles and miles of

:36:57. > :37:02.countryside that can never, ever be inhabited again. Houses left where

:37:02. > :37:07.people had had to flee from the effects of radiation. We know that

:37:07. > :37:12.in Wales, there is still over 300 farms and a movement restrictions

:37:12. > :37:16.because of contamination. We had some discussion last year in

:37:16. > :37:20.conference on nuclear power. And I know that there are many people who

:37:20. > :37:25.have come round to the idea that nuclear was a better option than

:37:25. > :37:30.coal in relation to climate change. But I know also that most of those

:37:30. > :37:35.people have changed their minds again, because no nuclear power

:37:35. > :37:39.station is zero risk, and when it goes wrong, it goes badly wrong. We

:37:39. > :37:43.oppose nuclear power because it is dangerous, expensive and not carbon

:37:43. > :37:47.free and we know the problems of waste. This motion calls for

:37:47. > :37:52.investment in renewable energy. If you look at the current situation

:37:52. > :38:02.on a European level, five times as much public funding is given to

:38:02. > :38:03.

:38:03. > :38:07.nuclear research as to renewables and energy efficiency. In 2007-2013,

:38:07. > :38:13.5 billion will go on nuclear and on renewables. Over half the UK budget

:38:13. > :38:17.is spent on nuclear. That is actually less than 4% of the UK

:38:17. > :38:21.energy needs. It is the same -- at the same amount of investment was

:38:21. > :38:25.put into renewables, we would have a different picture and that is

:38:25. > :38:29.where we need to create jobs. If you look around the world now,

:38:29. > :38:34.China has suspended all building work on 25 reactors they were

:38:34. > :38:39.building. Switzerland has stopped. India and South Korea have banned

:38:39. > :38:43.nuclear power. Germany has shut down seven plants that were built

:38:43. > :38:47.before 1980 and they are carrying out safety checks on the others.

:38:47. > :38:52.Italy has announced a two-year ban on nuclear power after a referendum

:38:52. > :38:55.and the people voted they did not want it. Fukushima was supposed to

:38:55. > :38:59.be one of the safest stations earmarked that most safety-

:38:59. > :39:05.conscious countries in the world, but to turn into a disaster. And if

:39:05. > :39:09.you look at the facts, there are many serious incidents in all types

:39:09. > :39:14.of nuclear power station and all reactor designs, all over the world,

:39:14. > :39:19.every year. We do not hear about them, but it is happening. Among

:39:19. > :39:23.the is for certain, these accidents, these incidents cannot be foreseen.

:39:23. > :39:28.Plaid Cymru has sent out mixed messages on nuclear-power, people

:39:28. > :39:33.are confused as to where we stand. But our policy, as the motion says,

:39:33. > :39:37.has stayed the same. We oppose all new nuclear power stations and we

:39:37. > :39:41.must say that now, loud and clear, that is what I won this conference

:39:41. > :39:49.to do so that people understand clearly where Plaid Cymru stands on

:39:49. > :39:58.this issue. What I want -- what are what this conference to do. So

:39:58. > :40:08.please, support the motion and reject amendments to, 3 and 4. --

:40:08. > :40:14.

:40:14. > :40:21.two, 3 and 4. Davide Ellis Thomas was be for the amendment. May I say

:40:21. > :40:31.and are extremely disappointed that I have to come to the stage to

:40:31. > :40:32.

:40:32. > :40:37.propose comments in favour of the amendments. And I am disappointed,

:40:37. > :40:43.I will explain why in a moment. I will tell you one thing right at

:40:43. > :40:47.the beginning. You can agree with every word that Gill says and vote

:40:47. > :40:53.for every one of the amendments. You can agree with everything she

:40:53. > :40:58.says and still vote in favour of the amendments, because the last

:40:58. > :41:02.thing any of those amendments has done is try to change policy. Let

:41:02. > :41:12.us look at some of them. Some of them are factual amendments.

:41:12. > :41:18.

:41:18. > :41:24.Amendment one. Which states that in looking at the potential of ways, -

:41:24. > :41:30.- ways, and they must say I was rather surprised to hear her say

:41:30. > :41:40.she wanted to vote against amendment four. It is factually

:41:40. > :41:42.

:41:42. > :41:48.correct say that the Government of the UK will hold an inspection of

:41:48. > :41:53.nuclear installation. As far as amendment one is concerned, I think

:41:53. > :41:58.everyone is in favour of that, with men than four, that is a factual

:41:58. > :42:06.matter of simple fact. May we return then to amendment two.

:42:06. > :42:11.Because that is probably the core of this discussion today. We must

:42:11. > :42:21.accept this quite clearly this morning. There is at terribly

:42:21. > :42:24.difficult situation, this situation is different from any other

:42:24. > :42:30.constituency, apart from the one which has had a nuclear power

:42:30. > :42:35.station. It is a difficult situation for us. It is a difficult

:42:35. > :42:43.and serious situation because the economy of the island has been

:42:43. > :42:46.weakened serious they during this last session. There are literally

:42:46. > :42:52.hundreds of votes that have been lost in Holyhead and the

:42:52. > :42:56.surrounding area. The only thing we say here is that however much we

:42:56. > :43:03.hope the Government of Wales can make a decision concerning nuclear

:43:03. > :43:06.power, however much we as a party say we object and that is the

:43:06. > :43:10.official party policy, we are not the ones who decide whether there

:43:10. > :43:18.will be a nuclear power station or not, and the UK Government has

:43:18. > :43:22.already said that there will be no transfer to make decisions on such

:43:22. > :43:27.issues by the Welsh Government. It is the London Government that the

:43:27. > :43:37.sides. I know we do not like it, but that is the fact, the simple

:43:37. > :43:39.

:43:39. > :43:43.Take it that they too intense to carry on, do we then say that at

:43:43. > :43:48.the London government is going to build a nuclear power station, but

:43:48. > :43:52.we are not going to fight in favour of local jobs? We're not going to

:43:52. > :43:58.fight in favour of investment and a local economy care was mad we do

:43:58. > :44:03.not want to see a company locally getting worked to build the

:44:03. > :44:06.station? Is that what we are going to stay? If you reject the men

:44:06. > :44:11.Elfyn Llwyd, that is what you're saying. We're just asking

:44:11. > :44:17.conference to give us fair play. Of the London government decides to

:44:17. > :44:23.carry on, let us say it is the people of the North West who can

:44:23. > :44:28.benefit from that investment. Meyer say one of the saying? I apologise

:44:28. > :44:32.for having to say this, but there are confused messages. There are no

:44:32. > :44:37.confused messages. We are not asking Plaid Cymru to change its

:44:37. > :44:43.policy, that is not the intention of this amendment. The intention of

:44:43. > :44:45.this amendment is 12 this conference to allow the area to

:44:45. > :44:55.benefit economically from a decision over which they have no

:44:55. > :44:56.

:44:56. > :45:01.control. Let me tell you, in 1960, at that period, when the power

:45:01. > :45:05.station was first built, we had this strong idea that we needed to

:45:05. > :45:10.maximise local employment from the press and station. I do not want to

:45:10. > :45:16.see that happen ever again. I want control over any new development

:45:16. > :45:19.that happens in my constituency. Let me also say, in conclusion,

:45:19. > :45:25.this perhaps is a more controversial point. With the men

:45:25. > :45:31.and two, except, I hope, that conference is with us here, --

:45:31. > :45:35.amendment two. I hope we do not have to adopt do that again. Let us

:45:35. > :45:41.now except that is the situation. I accept that you need to consider

:45:41. > :45:50.very carefully amend and three. What are the original management

:45:50. > :45:56.says is, it the confirms that the Tote some objection of Plaid Cymru

:45:56. > :46:00.to the consideration of any nuclear power station. That is our policy.

:46:00. > :46:06.What the motion and goes on to say is that that conference calls,

:46:07. > :46:12.firstly, for Plaid Cymru at all levels to officially oppose new

:46:12. > :46:17.nuclear projects. But that puts me in an indigenous position. I would

:46:17. > :46:22.ask you, please accept that that is Plaid Cymru's policy. I do not want

:46:22. > :46:27.to change that policy. That was me personally, as the leader of Plaid

:46:27. > :46:34.Cymru and as the local number in an impossible situation. I asked you,

:46:34. > :46:41.therefore, please can Sidhu that very carefully. Except this is a

:46:41. > :46:47.difficult situation. -- please consider that very carefully. But

:46:47. > :46:51.there is no intention to change the policy. But please supporters to

:46:51. > :47:01.insure the people of Anglesey have put the work, if the decision goes

:47:01. > :47:04.

:47:04. > :47:08.the other way. I speak as the chair of the

:47:08. > :47:16.Environment and sustainability committee of the National Assembly.

:47:16. > :47:21.I and my colleague, Lord and wiggly and later Ieuan Wyn Jones and later

:47:21. > :47:31.Elfyn Llwyd, except responsibility for the workers of the energy

:47:31. > :47:34.

:47:34. > :47:40.industry and the nuclear industry specifically. You, therefore, are

:47:40. > :47:47.asking me to break the promise of a lifetime, but I gave to the workers

:47:47. > :47:53.of the nuclear industry, engineers, Crossman, many -- many of them from

:47:53. > :48:02.old quarrying families, who have had three generations of workers,

:48:02. > :48:06.or quality work, and employment. I am not willing to do that. I have a

:48:06. > :48:11.responsibility as a former member of the union that I represented. I

:48:11. > :48:15.have a responsibility to that union and I intend to stick to my

:48:15. > :48:20.responsibility. It's -- it is very sad to have to note that this is

:48:20. > :48:24.one of the few motions discussing any industry that higher have ever

:48:24. > :48:29.seen it before the annual conference of Plaid Cymru that does

:48:29. > :48:35.not mention a word about those Welsh people who wore a working

:48:35. > :48:41.today in that industry and their future. There are over 600 people

:48:41. > :48:48.in work will be working in 216, 25 miles to the south of year. Three

:48:48. > :48:53.quarters of those people have the same postcode. If you do not living

:48:53. > :48:56.at the North and it did not know where Llandudno is, that is the

:48:56. > :49:02.North Wales postcode. They are local people. Some are contract

:49:03. > :49:07.does, but they are local people. We have a responsibility towards the

:49:07. > :49:16.�80 million expenditure that comes into the economy of the wider

:49:17. > :49:22.airier. The same is true for the case of the the power station. By

:49:22. > :49:25.support every word of that Ieuan Wyn Jones has said, but it is more

:49:25. > :49:34.strange than that to me. One of the things I was asked to do within the

:49:34. > :49:42.last year was to open the nuclear storage of medium strength. Because

:49:42. > :49:47.we have to take the responsibility for the nuclear waste that we have

:49:47. > :49:52.created in the territory of Wales. It is incorrect to say that there

:49:52. > :49:57.will not be a nuclear waste in other places in Wales because we

:49:57. > :50:01.have to take responsibility. As an environmentalist who supports the

:50:01. > :50:07.Centre for alternative Technology since it has been established, I

:50:07. > :50:12.know I have to take responsibility for the nuclear industry as it has

:50:12. > :50:17.had developed in Wales. I would ask this party to do the same. One word,

:50:17. > :50:22.in conclusion, are you do not approve of the people who'll speak

:50:22. > :50:26.about nuclear accidents as if they were or something that we, who were

:50:26. > :50:31.responsible for the nuclear energy, do not worry about. I read every

:50:31. > :50:36.word that has been written by the nuclear inspectorate so far about

:50:36. > :50:41.what happened in Japan. What happened then it had nothing to do

:50:41. > :50:46.about nuclear, it was caused by a tsunami. I do not think we will

:50:46. > :50:52.have a tsunami here. We must be realistic about this. I am

:50:52. > :50:58.disappointed that a party, to me, which is a green and a red party,

:50:58. > :51:04.does not have any concerns so far in this debate, seems to have no

:51:04. > :51:10.concern about the people working in the nuclear industry.

:51:10. > :51:14.The conclusion of that debate, a very narrow road -- vote. The party

:51:14. > :51:18.voted in favour of maintaining their current stance on nuclear

:51:18. > :51:21.power, which is to oppose the building of any new nuclear

:51:21. > :51:29.stations, but to allow the development of existing ones.

:51:29. > :51:39.Crucially, it is in Ieuan Wyn Jones's own backyard. I am joined

:51:39. > :51:43.by Simon Thomas AM and Eurfyl ap Gwilym. We have heard from several

:51:43. > :51:46.candidates this morning. By you going for it? I am talking to

:51:46. > :51:51.people about what sort of leadership the party should have

:51:51. > :51:55.been the next period. And what kind of leadership I could bring, if I

:51:55. > :52:00.were to stand, and I would be a different sort of leader. I am

:52:00. > :52:04.talking to people and gauging their opinion. It is a long period to go.

:52:04. > :52:10.You are an experienced member of parliament. You are quite a young

:52:10. > :52:14.for AM. You are quick off the block to go for the leadership. It would

:52:14. > :52:18.be. But we need to think about to be the leader for the next five

:52:18. > :52:23.years. For the next Assembly elections. We should be looking at

:52:23. > :52:28.the hall leadership issue for the next 10 years. I am talking about

:52:28. > :52:33.the sort of the leadership we should be showing to the country as

:52:33. > :52:38.a whole. I think we need to go to the next generation. Several people

:52:38. > :52:44.might declare themselves. You might be one of them. Give as a flavour

:52:44. > :52:48.of of what the sinus -- Simon Thomas manifesto would be. I will

:52:48. > :52:52.give a submission to the review and I will contribute. A you are going

:52:52. > :52:56.to go for it. There are several things we need to be clear about.

:52:57. > :53:03.The first is that the party has to lead Wales as a hall. They have to

:53:03. > :53:08.appear to a wider range of people. A lot of people have broken the ice

:53:08. > :53:13.with Socceroos, but they are not returning voters. -- Plaid Cymru.

:53:13. > :53:19.We need to communicate with them in both Welsh and English. We need to

:53:19. > :53:24.use a new methods of communication. It is not about the message, it is

:53:24. > :53:30.about the delivery of the message. The message is not going to appeal

:53:31. > :53:37.to everyone. Not everyone supports us. Of course not. But a large

:53:37. > :53:41.number of people in Wales, as has been shown in Scotland, would

:53:41. > :53:45.support as and would be happy to vote Plaid Cymru if they felt

:53:46. > :53:51.company. Would he get your third? Time will tell. I am keeping an

:53:51. > :53:55.open mind. I'm looking forward. We will have a series of candidates.

:53:55. > :53:59.We will have a vigorous campaign. I were trying keep an open mind on

:53:59. > :54:03.this. And then we will all reach a judgement. You are carrying out a

:54:03. > :54:08.complete review of the party, the structures, the strategies, the

:54:09. > :54:12.policy. Where are you one that? have just got going. I have done

:54:12. > :54:17.some work behind the scenes. We have got the team together. I have

:54:17. > :54:22.got a very strong team of five. They will have teams working for

:54:22. > :54:27.them. We're into the prices and a working intensively. We aim to get

:54:27. > :54:31.the report out by the end of the year. Everything on the table?

:54:31. > :54:35.Everything up for grabs? When you say everything on the table,

:54:35. > :54:39.everything up for grabs, we have always had some consistent policies

:54:39. > :54:43.and values in his party and we will continue to have those. This review

:54:43. > :54:49.will not be changing policy. We will be looking at things like

:54:49. > :54:54.structure, as Simon said, had to extend a campaign? How do we reach

:54:54. > :54:58.out more to the people of Wales? I think of so, there is a little bit

:54:58. > :55:03.of a feeling that given the time we were in government in need and

:55:03. > :55:08.should -- in the National Assembly, we tended to read -- neglect the

:55:08. > :55:12.party of the country. We need to the look at that. I am enthusiastic

:55:12. > :55:17.about looking at the way we develop policy. I think we have got weak

:55:17. > :55:22.recently. We need to strengthen that. That feeds into engaging the

:55:22. > :55:26.membership and the people of Wales at large. Alsop political education

:55:26. > :55:31.process. We are engaging in a vigorous debate about the formation

:55:31. > :55:38.of policy. That is how you fire up people in all are interested in

:55:38. > :55:42.policy. -- politics. We have had tremendous progress in Wales.

:55:42. > :55:47.wonder whether the message needs to change because the events have

:55:47. > :55:51.changed. The referendum, what is happening in Scotland. Does Plaid

:55:51. > :55:55.Cymru have to renew its message? think we have been a little bit too

:55:55. > :56:00.apologetic and defensive about a constitutional aims. I know what

:56:00. > :56:05.was in the men of their -- manifest on page 16, that is not very

:56:05. > :56:09.sensible. Throw at Ieuan Wyn Jones's leadership, you could argue

:56:09. > :56:14.that he did not Trumper that. He did not mention it in his speech

:56:14. > :56:19.yesterday. He thinks that scares people. Does that need to change?

:56:19. > :56:23.It is interesting. If you look now at a Welsh opinion, as mentioned by

:56:23. > :56:27.opinion polls, for what it is worth, and it is worth something, the

:56:27. > :56:32.majority of people favour borrowing powers. They would like to see

:56:32. > :56:37.taxation powers in Wales, they would like to see the devolution of

:56:37. > :56:41.the justice system here in Wales. In a way, the people of Wales are

:56:41. > :56:45.getting a little bit ahead of us in terms of the steps to be taken to

:56:45. > :56:50.self- government. We need to map out much more clearly the steps,

:56:50. > :56:54.the options at each stage, then invite the people of Wales to take

:56:54. > :56:58.the journey with us. Some will only come so far, some were not want

:56:58. > :57:03.come any further, that is the minority, a lot of people will come

:57:03. > :57:08.with us. Crucially we have always led the debate in Wales, or even

:57:08. > :57:11.when we did not have any MPs. The other parties come behind us.

:57:11. > :57:16.People say they are putting the tanks on a warlord, that is great,

:57:16. > :57:22.we have got a very wide lawn. We have plenty more space to attract

:57:22. > :57:28.people. You have got the Welsh a fine of the other parties. It is a

:57:28. > :57:32.horrible word. In a way, they are on your territory. A potential

:57:32. > :57:39.leader would be, OK, do we go and become a more nationalistic. Would

:57:39. > :57:43.that be the option? It is an option, but I do not think it is the

:57:43. > :57:46.realistic option for Plaid Cymru. The pack -- the fact that the are

:57:46. > :57:54.the past these have become more Welsh in their policy making, the

:57:54. > :58:00.direction, backed, they are still Unionist parties based in London.

:58:00. > :58:06.This to run from London. The Welsh Labour Party does not exist as a

:58:06. > :58:13.legal constitutional entity. It is a brand, that is all. Carwyn

:58:13. > :58:16.Jones's message is very different from Ed Miliband. We have to be

:58:16. > :58:19.very clear about an hour message. They have to be very clear about

:58:19. > :58:29.our constitutional aims, but we have to be open to people who just

:58:29. > :58:31.

:58:31. > :58:37.want to come with as part of the People will vote for the SNP

:58:37. > :58:43.because they are the best Government. We have are the only

:58:43. > :58:49.Government who has delivered on every item. That is very much

:58:50. > :58:54.missing from what Cameron and Labour are doing. The people of

:58:54. > :58:58.Wales gave you that of a shock, so if you are to get back into

:58:58. > :59:04.Government, it is crucial to have an influence, where do you stand on

:59:04. > :59:10.collision? That has been a debate here, whether power, it doesn't

:59:10. > :59:13.matter at what price, his power the ultimate thing? I do not think

:59:13. > :59:18.anyone in Plaid Cymru would say we would go into coalition to seek

:59:18. > :59:22.power at any price, but when you go into coalition, and it is the heart

:59:22. > :59:26.of -- the art of politics is the art of compromise, when we joined a

:59:26. > :59:30.political party, we do not agree with everything that party stands

:59:30. > :59:38.for. We compromised because we think overall, we get more power by

:59:38. > :59:44.working through a party machine, but we accept party policy. Carwyn

:59:44. > :59:50.Jones's Government, a majority, at a majority, it gets in trouble, the

:59:50. > :59:54.Tories, too, the Lib Dems, what about a coalition? What about

:59:54. > :59:57.reinvigorating the rainbow coalition? The one who wrote the

:59:57. > :00:03.papers -- for one who wrote papers on the Rainbow Coalition, I would

:00:03. > :00:10.be cool about that. It is practical to have two parties in coalition,

:00:10. > :00:20.three would be more difficult. The Lib Dems would be extremely

:00:20. > :00:20.

:00:20. > :00:24.different. But what about the Tories? I think you should never

:00:24. > :00:28.say never in politics. The concerning thing is I would say, or

:00:28. > :00:32.for the first 12 years of the National Assembly, there have been

:00:32. > :00:35.two periods where the Government of the day appears to have some sense

:00:35. > :00:39.of direction and purpose, the first was when it was in collision with

:00:39. > :00:43.the Liberals, less so than when they were in collision with us. Now

:00:43. > :00:48.you get the impression of a rather feeble Government, which is very

:00:48. > :00:54.sad. Now or never for the Tories? You never show your cards. The

:00:54. > :01:02.Tories represent a strong standing of public opinion in Wells. They

:01:02. > :01:07.are power bloc. -- in Wales. Our job is not to get involved in the

:01:07. > :01:11.fight between that Labour and the Tories. Power job is to promote

:01:11. > :01:15.Wales and Plaid Cymru and to use those powers for the best of Wales.

:01:15. > :01:23.Ten minutes on live television and you did not declare, when will you

:01:23. > :01:26.declare? We do not even open the nominations until January. Well

:01:26. > :01:33.done to Elin Jones, but I think this is a marathon. Thank you very

:01:33. > :01:41.much. It is back to mark now, who I think despite the rain has ventured

:01:41. > :01:44.outside. We stepped out into the fresh air but not the fresh rain. I

:01:44. > :01:53.am joined by two people who will shed some light on the future of

:01:53. > :01:56.the party, the treasure, Daffyd Trystan,. Leicester were that

:01:56. > :02:00.election. We heard about what might have gone wrong. As the treasurer,

:02:00. > :02:04.was money have factor in that campaign, but delivering what he

:02:04. > :02:08.wanted to? It was a factor, and when you compared what the

:02:08. > :02:15.resources of our friends in Scotland were, the SNP spent over

:02:15. > :02:18.�1 million, Plaid Cymru spent about �150,000 on the election. There is

:02:18. > :02:26.a challenge for the party to take funding more seriously. The point

:02:26. > :02:29.to make his that Plaid is unique in that context because each of the

:02:29. > :02:38.party's does not have the kind of resources that parties in Scotland

:02:38. > :02:43.have. A few years ago,... Plaid Cymru did have a period of having a

:02:43. > :02:47.bit more cash, as that now run out? What we now find is that people are

:02:47. > :02:52.very generous in their bequests and thankfully, bequests are something

:02:53. > :02:56.you should not rely on or predict. There are those who are very

:02:56. > :03:00.generous and the money to Plaid Cymru and it is a critical part of

:03:00. > :03:03.building towards the next election. So, money had run fatter but

:03:03. > :03:08.Nicholas, that was not all that went wrong will stop what did you

:03:08. > :03:16.think was the problem with that last campaign? We hoped for better

:03:16. > :03:19.results. Our main disappointment is be feel that Wells has missed the

:03:19. > :03:22.opportunity to advance in terms of constitutionally and in terms of

:03:22. > :03:28.looking at the various issues of raising standards in Wales that we

:03:28. > :03:35.were looking at during the election. But in terms of our campaign, we

:03:36. > :03:45.did not take credit enough when it went well. Are ministers were

:03:45. > :03:48.looking to make changes... Was stopped you? We were distracted him

:03:48. > :03:53.to... We were exhausted from the referendum campaign. Perhaps that

:03:53. > :03:57.is where our focus should have been. There is a silver lining, because

:03:57. > :04:01.the issues that a Labour wells Government is now talking about,

:04:01. > :04:04.not really labour issues in the sense that there are issues that

:04:04. > :04:10.are on the agenda and we have really changed the political

:04:10. > :04:13.terrain. When Plaid Cymru resolves the issue is that we have at the

:04:13. > :04:19.moment, we will move into a stronger position, where we can

:04:19. > :04:24.actually change things and make an advantage. One of the issues was

:04:24. > :04:29.nuclear power. Sorted out for us. Where does the party stand?

:04:29. > :04:33.party policy is quite clear, we are against nuclear-power, we remain

:04:33. > :04:36.opposed to nuclear power. There are obviously occasion when the West as

:04:36. > :04:42.the Government will choose to do things in Wales that we oppose, and

:04:42. > :04:50.at that point we have to make every opportunity that is afforded to us

:04:50. > :04:55.to influence the lives of people in an area around, say, Anglesey.

:04:55. > :04:59.it is something you party leaders are depending upon. It is clearly

:04:59. > :05:03.going to happen, it is part of the UK Government's policy. The big

:05:03. > :05:07.challenge is tackling the issue of climate change and developing our

:05:08. > :05:12.renewable sector. We have had many debates about renewables and that

:05:12. > :05:17.is what we in Plaid Cymru had gone to be working on. Look Nicholas,

:05:17. > :05:21.quickly, or you police that vote went the way it did? It was a

:05:21. > :05:26.really close vote, I was pleased that the debate was held and I hope

:05:27. > :05:34.we keep having get into that country -- Plaid Cymru as the UK

:05:34. > :05:38.Government's policy unfolds. As a party, I think we would like to see

:05:38. > :05:42.the UK Government make a bigger commitment to renewable energy,

:05:42. > :05:50.which is the energy of the future and to make that their priority.

:05:50. > :05:53.Thank you very much for your time. This time yesterday, Ieuan Wyn

:05:53. > :05:59.Jones was preparing to make his final speech to conference as party

:05:59. > :06:05.leader. He will be standing down in the spring after 11 years at the

:06:05. > :06:10.helm. It was personal and emotional at times.

:06:10. > :06:18.As this is my last conference speech as leader of the party, I

:06:18. > :06:21.want to cast mine I over the past few years. But this is not going to

:06:21. > :06:26.be a history lesson, although I hope there will be one or two

:06:26. > :06:32.lessons that the party will remember as we face the next period

:06:32. > :06:37.in our journey as a party and has a proud nation. Let us begin by

:06:37. > :06:42.remembering one thing about everything. -- above everything.

:06:42. > :06:49.This party was formed because Wales needed a party that was prepared to

:06:49. > :06:53.put the interests of Wales pub off all else. In our long and proud

:06:53. > :06:57.history, the party has faced enormous challenges, we have

:06:57. > :07:02.witnessed differing fortunes, depending on our electoral cycle.

:07:02. > :07:07.Yet, even in the scenes of our greatest triumphs, as well as her

:07:07. > :07:13.worst moments, we have not forgotten that central mission,

:07:13. > :07:18.which is to put the interests of Wales first. I am sure we can all

:07:18. > :07:23.remember occasions when they put the interests of Wales even before

:07:23. > :07:27.the interests of our own party. That is what defines us in the

:07:28. > :07:32.politics of modern Wales, because no other party has ever been

:07:32. > :07:38.prepared to do that. No other party will put the interests of Wales

:07:38. > :07:45.before their own interests. For them, political calculations or

:07:45. > :07:50.political advantage weighs heavily with them. It does not with us. And

:07:50. > :07:55.yet, the paradox is this - Wales needs a strong, firm and resolute

:07:55. > :08:02.Plaid Cymru to make sure that Wales moves to the next stage of our

:08:03. > :08:06.national journey. In the past, London has listened when Plaid was

:08:07. > :08:12.strong and seen as an electoral threat. If you lose some of the

:08:12. > :08:17.Cabinet papers of the 1960s and 1960s - I 1970s, you will see that.

:08:17. > :08:22.The British state did make concessions to Wales when Plaid was

:08:22. > :08:28.winning were increasing its share of the vote. That was true until

:08:28. > :08:33.1997. Then of course, the political dynamic changed. There is now a

:08:33. > :08:39.feeling that because Wales has its Assembly, Whitehall can ignore

:08:39. > :08:45.Wales. That is a phenomenon which applies whichever party is in power

:08:45. > :08:49.at the other end of the M4. It was true for Scotland as well. Now that

:08:49. > :08:56.Wales has its Assembly and Scotland has its Parliament, we can forget

:08:56. > :09:01.about them to the North and to the West. But it was only true for

:09:01. > :09:06.Scotland until the SNP became the largest party. There is a lesson

:09:06. > :09:11.for us there in Wales. It is no longer good enough for Plaid to be

:09:11. > :09:21.making small advances here and there, winning the odd seat now and

:09:21. > :09:21.

:09:21. > :09:30.then. For Wales to succeed now, Plaid has to be in Government in

:09:30. > :09:36.Wales. To put it another way... To put it in another way, Wales cannot

:09:36. > :09:41.succeed if Plaid is content to be in permanent opposition. Does

:09:41. > :09:48.Whitehall treat Wales and Scotland the same in 2011? A course it does

:09:48. > :09:54.not. Why? Because Scotland has a majority SNP Government. Wells has

:09:54. > :09:57.a minority Labour Government. -- Wales. What has been happening

:09:58. > :10:00.since made? Who has been making the running for extra powers for their

:10:00. > :10:04.nation? Who insisted that on Llanelli meeting that the

:10:04. > :10:09.Chancellor of Exchequer to get more fiscal autonomy for the nation two

:10:09. > :10:15.who has been demanding greater self determination for the nation? Was

:10:15. > :10:21.at Alex Salmond, or was it Carwyn Jones? That is not a rhetorical

:10:21. > :10:25.question, there is an answer to it, it is Alex Salmond. Of course it is.

:10:25. > :10:30.Labour in Government went into the election, but Labour in Wales went

:10:30. > :10:35.to the Government after the 2011 Election, seemingly afraid of their

:10:35. > :10:41.own shadow. Constantly looking over their shoulder, wondering if they

:10:41. > :10:45.are upsetting their bosses. What is the deal for Scotland? The Calman

:10:45. > :10:51.Commission has delivered boring -- borrowing powers of nearly �3

:10:51. > :10:55.billion. It has more powers to set income tax rates, more powers to

:10:56. > :10:59.levy used-car and specific taxes. All in all, the Scottish Parliament

:10:59. > :11:03.will be responsible for one-third of the money it spends. Alex

:11:03. > :11:09.Salmond did not stop there. He has called for even more powers for

:11:09. > :11:14.Scotland. More powers to borrow money, control for corporation tax

:11:14. > :11:19.and money from the fossil fuel levy. Wales has no powers to raise a

:11:20. > :11:28.single penny of the money we spend. So we have already - and we are

:11:28. > :11:34.already miles behind Scotland. That is what the SNP Government had

:11:34. > :11:39.secured and called for, what does Labour ask for Wales? Well, they

:11:39. > :11:43.won the introduction of the Barnett formula, some foreign powers and

:11:43. > :11:49.powers over some very small taxes, which someone called Mickey Mouse

:11:49. > :11:55.taxes, which will raise only 2% of the money that will Spence. The

:11:55. > :12:00.reason for that is Ed Balls will not allow Carwyn Jones to call for

:12:00. > :12:05.reform of the Barnett formula. So there we have it. Scotland,

:12:05. > :12:10.powering ahead, and nation on the march, in top gear, the SNP

:12:10. > :12:17.Government setting the pace. And Wales, lagging behind with no

:12:17. > :12:27.ambition, in reverse gear, going nowhere under a Labour Government.

:12:27. > :12:27.

:12:27. > :12:31.APPLAUSE. We actually said in the general

:12:31. > :12:39.election, that Wales would standstill under Labour. We were

:12:39. > :12:43.wrong. Wales is going back under Labour. We are losing ground. We

:12:44. > :12:49.are in the first year. At a time when people are facing

:12:49. > :12:53.unprecedented cuts in public spending, it is time to stand up

:12:53. > :12:58.for Wales. At a time when people are losing their benefits, at a

:12:58. > :13:03.time when people with disabilities are being denied their benefits, it

:13:03. > :13:07.is a time to stand up for Wales. At a time when people are losing their

:13:07. > :13:12.housing benefit, and more people are becoming homeless, it is time

:13:12. > :13:17.to stand up for Wales. Do you remember who used that slogan in

:13:17. > :13:23.the election? It was a Labour slogan. It is not a case of Labour

:13:23. > :13:28.standing up for Wales, they are standing aside. It is Plaid's role

:13:28. > :13:38.to be the Government of Wales, we would never stand aside because we

:13:38. > :13:39.

:13:39. > :13:44.would stand up for the people of I'm not saying we should rush into

:13:44. > :13:50.government immediately. A party, from time to time, will need some

:13:50. > :13:55.occasions to reflect, renew, reinvigorate. I'm sure we will need

:13:55. > :13:59.time to reflect on the 2011 election, not rush into hasty

:13:59. > :14:05.conclusions. And allow the commission to look at things and

:14:05. > :14:10.bring forward its recommendations by the end of the year. But when

:14:10. > :14:15.the time is right, we should never turned down for the call to the

:14:15. > :14:23.lead and one nation. It is our duty and Plaid Cymru should always step

:14:23. > :14:26.up to the plate. Being in government demands discipline. It

:14:26. > :14:32.can be intensely frustrating. At times it involves making difficult

:14:32. > :14:35.decisions. He had to make tough choices. But it is our

:14:35. > :14:41.responsibility to lead Wales. We have seen what happens when Labour

:14:41. > :14:47.is left to do it alone. Wales has already started on a long journey

:14:47. > :14:53.to be a more self riffle -- self- reliant, more mature nation. The

:14:53. > :14:59.train has left the station. It has even called to North Wales. There

:14:59. > :15:04.is no going back now. Labour would try to take us down some sidings,

:15:04. > :15:08.but they were hit the buffers. Plaid Cymru has to lead to get

:15:08. > :15:12.Wales back on track. It will not always be in the sea journey. At

:15:12. > :15:18.times it will be a bumpy ride. We will have to stop sometimes for

:15:18. > :15:28.refuelling. But getting back into the driver's seat, we must. One

:15:28. > :15:34.

:15:34. > :15:40.Wales was the beginning, not the I have no hesitation in saying

:15:40. > :15:47.today, it is the best government Wales have had since 1999. We did

:15:47. > :15:51.good things. I will tell you something, the mistake we made into

:15:51. > :15:56.-- in 2011 was not telling people what we did in government. We

:15:56. > :16:00.should have told people what we achieved. Wales is a better place

:16:00. > :16:05.because of that government and Plaid Cymru is responsible for that.

:16:05. > :16:10.We must be able to sell ourselves better, not be afraid to claim the

:16:11. > :16:15.credit for the things we did. However, striding to be a party of

:16:15. > :16:20.government, becoming the biggest party in Wales, means that we have

:16:20. > :16:25.to accept certain challenges. We cannot run after every hair or

:16:25. > :16:30.follow every hand. We need to persuade more people than ever

:16:30. > :16:35.before. Not only can Plaid Cymru be trusted to govern Wales, but we are

:16:35. > :16:39.ready to do so. That does not mean we give up campaigning of speak out

:16:39. > :16:42.on issues, but it means we have to reach out to people who have never

:16:42. > :16:48.voted for as in the past or may never have voted for us more than

:16:48. > :16:52.once or twice. We must make Plaid Cymru a comfortable home for the

:16:52. > :16:56.majority of the people of Wales. Whatever language they speak,

:16:57. > :17:02.wherever they come from, whatever their background. Wales needs as

:17:02. > :17:09.more than ever. We did good things in one of Wales, but there is more

:17:09. > :17:12.still to do. Education in Wales needs to be sorted out. Levels of

:17:12. > :17:17.literacy and numeracy are a scandal. The health service needs firm

:17:17. > :17:22.direction. Tackling the causes of ill health as well as healing the

:17:22. > :17:27.sick. Making sure cancer and stroke patients received her the vital

:17:27. > :17:31.treatment. And making palliative care the best it can be. Making

:17:31. > :17:35.sure the economy continues on a path of economic renewal. Making

:17:35. > :17:43.sure that our young people are given the skills they need to meet

:17:43. > :17:48.the challenges of 21st century Wales. Wales journey as a nation

:17:48. > :17:54.has taken some mighty leaps ahead in recent times. It is about extra

:17:54. > :17:58.powers, but it is also about that rather indefinable thing called

:17:58. > :18:06.confidence. I believe that the people of Wales now have the

:18:06. > :18:10.confidence to go to the next stage on that journey. History teaches us

:18:10. > :18:14.that Nation marked on freedom has to be based on the support of his

:18:14. > :18:20.own people, but also on the willingness of its leaders to take

:18:20. > :18:24.calculated risks. In the past, it is true that Wales has been held

:18:24. > :18:29.back as a result of that indefinable thing called a lack of

:18:29. > :18:37.self-confidence or lack of self- belief. I have lost count of the

:18:37. > :18:46.number of people who told me that Wales would never vote Yes in 20th

:18:46. > :18:50.March 11. They kept telling me, Wales was still not ready for it.

:18:50. > :18:54.They will never vote yes. That is what they keep telling me. They

:18:54. > :18:58.lacked the essential self belief that is necessary to win a

:18:58. > :19:04.referendum. I understand why people were nervous about it. I tell you,

:19:04. > :19:08.it took more than a little courage to take that step. But I knew that

:19:08. > :19:15.the people of Wales were ready to take that step. Any leader needs to

:19:15. > :19:20.be able to take decisions like that. And Wales, I believe, is ready to

:19:20. > :19:25.take further steps. The timing has to be right, but nothing will be

:19:25. > :19:31.gained by being timid or an ambitious. We need to be bold, to

:19:31. > :19:37.set out clearly our ambitions for Wales, to make sure Wales has the

:19:37. > :19:42.resources to bring greater prosperity to our people. My time

:19:42. > :19:47.as a leader is coming to an end. Candidates to become the next

:19:47. > :19:52.leader are beginning to declare themselves. Any more today, I

:19:52. > :19:59.wonder? It has been a great honour to have been president and party

:19:59. > :20:04.leader for the past 11 years. The party has only had eight leaders in

:20:04. > :20:09.its history. To be one of them is a rare privilege. As always, of

:20:09. > :20:15.course, a new leader will open a new chapter in at the party's

:20:16. > :20:20.history. A new face. A voice giving voice to our hopes and aspirations

:20:20. > :20:26.for a better Wales. Wales needs Plaid Cymru more than ever. We need

:20:26. > :20:31.to give our next leader all have the support needed to make Plaid

:20:31. > :20:37.Cymru the natural party to go than Wales. As I take my leave of the

:20:37. > :20:45.leadership stage in the spring of next year, I pledge my support to

:20:45. > :20:50.the next leader. And to the party I have been a member of for 46 years.

:20:50. > :20:56.Then she very much for your support. Thank you for the privilege of

:20:56. > :21:01.leading the party and as I leave the stage, I am confident that the

:21:01. > :21:08.party has taken in Wales further on its journey to freedom. We have a

:21:08. > :21:18.long way yet to go. As the old saying goes, it has been a great

:21:18. > :21:21.

:21:21. > :21:25.beginning. The best is yet to come. That was Ieuan Wyn Jones addressing

:21:25. > :21:30.the conference for the last time as party leader yesterday. Of all the

:21:30. > :21:34.conference speeches he has given, he said that was the easiest to

:21:34. > :21:39.write and the one he enjoyed most. We will hear from somebody who

:21:39. > :21:47.knows Ieuan Wyn Jones very well shortly. First, let's go down to

:21:47. > :21:54.the fire. I am a joined by the Johnathan Edwards ands the

:21:54. > :21:59.executive of Plaid Cymru. It could be said that Plaid Cymru found it

:21:59. > :22:02.difficult to land punches on Labour. Since then, you have had a long

:22:02. > :22:07.period of reflection which is still ongoing and two were not going to

:22:07. > :22:11.have a new leader in place until March next year. Is that too long?

:22:11. > :22:16.I'm quite relaxed about the process that has been outlined by the party

:22:16. > :22:20.hierarchy. We have had a major strategic victory last year. Be

:22:20. > :22:25.secured victory in the referendum. That was a massive step forward. It

:22:25. > :22:29.has been a very successful year. After every election, every

:22:29. > :22:35.repartee what -- reflects on what has happened. Pier in the midst of

:22:35. > :22:38.a very long cycle. It is four years until the next general election. It

:22:38. > :22:42.is right that we take time to reflect on what we have achieved,

:22:42. > :22:45.where we go next and following the end of that revering period, we

:22:45. > :22:49.will look towards the person who will leaders will the next few

:22:49. > :22:53.years. Does that period make it more difficult? Obviously, every

:22:53. > :22:57.day you were trying to land but a pensions, but there is a period of

:22:57. > :23:02.uncertainty. Would it have been better if Ieuan Wyn Jones had gone

:23:02. > :23:07.immediately after that election? do not think so. This process is

:23:07. > :23:11.part of the constant ongoing process. The party is looking at it

:23:11. > :23:15.pulses, its direction. It is something we have to do as a

:23:15. > :23:18.political party. Things change on a day-to-day basis. There is the more

:23:18. > :23:22.they focus on this because of the result of the election, but Ieuan

:23:22. > :23:28.Wyn Jones is the lead at the moment. He is respected and experience. He

:23:28. > :23:34.will carry on putting the government of Wales to count until

:23:34. > :23:37.the steps down. I think there is up too much focus on the timescale.

:23:38. > :23:41.The Duke of the matter, we have a strong team in the Assembly. They

:23:41. > :23:45.will continue doing their job but the government to account. It you

:23:45. > :23:48.feel that might be done more effectively under different

:23:48. > :23:53.circumstances? We know the Welsh government is having great

:23:53. > :23:55.difficulty with education, with local government. Two councils thus

:23:55. > :24:00.far have been taken over to some extent by the government. Another

:24:00. > :24:05.man, Pembrokeshire, is under inquiry. You feel you are missing a

:24:05. > :24:09.trick because you are having these internal wranglings? Off from it.

:24:09. > :24:12.We are landing punches day, but at Westminster and Assembly level. The

:24:12. > :24:19.are showing the lethargy of the heart of the current government,

:24:19. > :24:25.the lack of ambition that the Labour Party have a for Wales. They

:24:25. > :24:30.are back to a unitary status. They are seeing any a concession to the

:24:30. > :24:33.devolved government as a concession to nationalism. Where are you going

:24:33. > :24:37.in terms of repairing whatever was wrong with the election? They know

:24:38. > :24:43.you have got this process which has not yet concluded, but looking at

:24:43. > :24:47.the leader's speech yesterday, there was a lot about the problems

:24:48. > :24:52.of recent decades. Not a lot about the next step forward. What was

:24:52. > :24:56.wrong that this to be put right? What was wrong within the party? It

:24:56. > :25:00.is a case of bodies in the last election, people did not vote for

:25:00. > :25:07.us. But bizarrely, you lost it, having achieved something of

:25:07. > :25:11.supporters have sought for for a long time. The bet is the measure

:25:12. > :25:15.of success for Plaid Cymru. Paddy you measure success? It is a -- is

:25:15. > :25:20.it about collective psyche those or was it about the march towards

:25:20. > :25:24.freedom and independence for Wales? That is how we measure success.

:25:24. > :25:28.think the key thing when you go to the National Assembly elections is

:25:28. > :25:33.that the definition of success and failure are defined by very small

:25:33. > :25:42.margins. We are talking about a couple of hundred more boats, then

:25:42. > :25:47.we would have had a few more seats. We won the referendum and we got 11

:25:47. > :25:51.seats. It has been a very good year. Be heard Elin Jones talk about a

:25:51. > :25:55.need for Plaid Cymru to broaden its support. How will you do that? How

:25:55. > :25:58.well you reach out to new communities? We have got to go out

:25:58. > :26:01.and talked people make sure they understand the messages we are

:26:02. > :26:07.trying to put over. We need people to understand what the party is

:26:07. > :26:10.about. I do not think anyone is kidding themselves that the party

:26:10. > :26:15.is not a free drink for Wales and getting the right projects in place

:26:15. > :26:19.for the people of Wales. We need to convince people that Plaid Cymru is

:26:19. > :26:23.the best party to achieve that. There is a huge appetite for

:26:23. > :26:29.greater political economy in Wales. We are the only party that will

:26:29. > :26:33.deliver that. Unionist parties are all entrenching back. The people of

:26:33. > :26:38.Wales should come with us on the exciting journey ahead. The next

:26:38. > :26:43.stages of the journey will be very interesting to observe. I am joined

:26:43. > :26:52.now abide the brand new chief executive of the party, Rhuanedd

:26:52. > :26:58.Richards. Welcome. It is your first week in the job. What a week!

:26:58. > :27:03.Straight into the deep end. It is a 9 in at the Plaid Cymru house. It

:27:03. > :27:07.has done amazingly well. I could not have pot-pourri beat -- for a

:27:07. > :27:11.better conference. People are very enthusiastic but the future. They

:27:11. > :27:15.are ready to learn the lessons of the pass. This is putting us in

:27:16. > :27:19.good stead as we prepare for that reveal by Eurfyl ap Gwilym and his

:27:19. > :27:23.team. It has gone very well, you say, but there is a division on a

:27:23. > :27:30.lot of things. You've got a very divided party on nuclear. You have

:27:30. > :27:36.got a divided party are -- party and had trumpeting independence.

:27:36. > :27:39.You could say that up almost any a party on the first issue. Almost

:27:39. > :27:44.every party has various opinions on the nuclear industry. It is

:27:44. > :27:50.different about a party is that we are willing to have those debates

:27:50. > :27:56.openly. You can follow what is going on. Not everything. Most

:27:56. > :28:00.things. Other than internal matters. I think that is quite healthy. It

:28:00. > :28:04.is a healthy position to be in. We're very proud of that tradition.

:28:04. > :28:09.We hear the speech from Ieuan Wyn Jones. You have worked very closely

:28:09. > :28:12.with him as his special adviser. Have you got a lump in the throat

:28:12. > :28:19.when you listen to that question a kid was a very emotional day for

:28:19. > :28:28.Ieuan Wyn Jones and for the party. Ieuan Wyn Jones has led his party

:28:28. > :28:33.during the most successful time in There are no other party leader who

:28:33. > :28:37.can say, I delivered a law-making Parliament for Wales. He has also

:28:37. > :28:47.delivered recently the worst election result we have ever had.

:28:47. > :28:53.Just to reflect on that, there was commitment to halt the referendum,

:28:53. > :28:59.throughout the period they were saying it should not happen. He

:28:59. > :29:06.stuck by his guns. -- moment to have the referendum. Of course

:29:06. > :29:13.there are lessons to learn. He is absolutely right. That is what we

:29:13. > :29:23.need to learn as we move forward. The issues Griffiths, what are the

:29:23. > :29:23.

:29:23. > :29:27.lessons to be learned? -- Llyr Huws Gruffydd. I was glad that Elin

:29:27. > :29:33.Jones has decided to throw her hat into the ring but I'm looking

:29:33. > :29:38.forward to hearing the names come forward. In terms of the direction

:29:38. > :29:42.of the party, for example, she mentioned independence I do not

:29:42. > :29:48.know how many times, Ieuan Wyn Jones did not mention it at all.

:29:48. > :29:52.She is going for it in terms of independence. With that suit you?

:29:52. > :29:56.Absolutely, it is the fundamental reason that Plaid Cymru is in

:29:56. > :29:59.existence so why do up in we need to shy away from that and I think

:29:59. > :30:03.Elin Jones is putting her cards on the table. What she did say is the

:30:03. > :30:07.focus needs to be on the Welsh economy. We have an economic

:30:07. > :30:12.argument that needs to be had in Wales and I am looking forward to

:30:12. > :30:17.that. In terms of the leadership contest, you are no good to comment

:30:17. > :30:23.on policy, but in terms of the timescale, fill us in on what is

:30:24. > :30:28.good to happen... I am in fact a returning officer in that election!

:30:28. > :30:33.I can tell you that about the timetable. I will be writing to

:30:33. > :30:38.branches and members in the next few weeks, telling them about the

:30:38. > :30:41.election, and informing them that nominations will be opening early

:30:41. > :30:46.in 2012 and will close probably at the end of January, and the

:30:46. > :30:52.election will be held in March, which will allow hustings period

:30:52. > :30:57.through fabric. It is an exciting process. I hope we can make this as

:30:57. > :31:01.inclusive a process as possible, transparent, an opportunity to

:31:01. > :31:05.bring new members on board, perhaps all members who have left the party

:31:05. > :31:09.as well, Plaid supporters who would play a role in shaping the future

:31:09. > :31:13.of the party. On the point mark was making about the time it is ticking

:31:13. > :31:16.for asked to have that transition, I think it is right that we take

:31:16. > :31:20.our time, because you would not have the debate if it was a knee-

:31:20. > :31:24.jerk that happen within weeks of the election and we have a proud

:31:24. > :31:27.tradition in having leaders who were there are a number of years.

:31:28. > :31:31.We're not going to pick his successor very quickly, because

:31:31. > :31:41.this is an appointment that will be hopefully a long-term one. But it

:31:41. > :31:44.

:31:44. > :31:49.is already, they it will be another six months. To my money to be

:31:49. > :31:54.focusing on attacking the Government Ingle the Tory party

:31:54. > :31:58.provides the official opposition to Wales, Plaid Cymru will provide the

:31:58. > :32:08.official opposition to the last Government. That work continues and

:32:08. > :32:09.

:32:09. > :32:14.it is important. Someone said in Welsh nation it is a crisis, I do

:32:14. > :32:20.not think it is a crisis, it is a critical juncture. Let us enjoy it

:32:20. > :32:24.this opportunity to talk about who we are, our past, our future, where

:32:24. > :32:28.we had been, where we are going, watch our hopes and aspirations are

:32:28. > :32:35.for the people of Wales and paint a picture of the journey we would

:32:35. > :32:40.like to travel on. One thing that is coming through clearly in this

:32:40. > :32:46.conference, there is a steely determination coming forward, we

:32:46. > :32:50.have been stirred into action by the Assembly results. Looking back

:32:50. > :32:55.again briefly, you were there at the heart of the last Government if

:32:55. > :33:03.you like deluding one Wales. Ieuan Wyn Jones said yesterday we failed

:33:03. > :33:11.as a party to really celebrate her successes. Why was that German all

:33:11. > :33:20.sorts of reasons for that. -- why was that? All sorts of reason for

:33:20. > :33:28.that. We were focused on getting that campaign run. Some of us were

:33:28. > :33:32.out of the streets. That may be a factor. Maybe we did miss an

:33:32. > :33:37.opportunity, when they think of the fact that we avoided and number of

:33:37. > :33:43.hospital closures, downgrading of services, thanks to Plaid Cymru's

:33:43. > :33:48.efforts. The lesson for the future perhaps his we need to be a lot

:33:48. > :33:58.more confident in talking about those successes. There was also,

:33:58. > :34:01.

:34:01. > :34:05.people were saying,,... Perhaps that played on people's confidence.

:34:05. > :34:10.One problem is that you spend too much time attacking Labour rather

:34:10. > :34:14.than focusing on what you see as your successes. It is possible and

:34:14. > :34:19.it is easy to see that now in the cold light of day. But from the

:34:19. > :34:25.reaction I get on the street, it is now that the penny is dropping,

:34:25. > :34:28.because people contrast the energy and sense of Purpose with the drift

:34:28. > :34:35.and lethargy that we have now with his Welsh Labour administration.

:34:35. > :34:39.Over time, time has been kinder to Plaid Cymru. So, all guns on the

:34:39. > :34:45.last Government, there will not be another coalition with Labour,?

:34:45. > :34:51.is not for me to decide. But will be a decision for the party

:34:51. > :34:54.membership. If the situation arises, but at the moment that is not an

:34:54. > :34:59.option. The focus of the party is about rebuilding itself. It could

:34:59. > :35:03.be an option quite soon. Or the Rainbow could be reignited. The

:35:03. > :35:12.coalition with the Lib Dems and the Tories. Where do you stand on

:35:12. > :35:16.Mackem we will not go cap in hand to anyone. If Labour came to last.

:35:16. > :35:26.-- ready HE STAMMERS? At them on, I do not sense the

:35:26. > :35:26.

:35:27. > :35:32.stomach for another... In a way,, you have take this into his lap, he

:35:32. > :35:40.said never say never. It could be a more sensible action. There are

:35:40. > :35:48.those here who put motions saying, no never would the Conservatives

:35:48. > :35:52.and not for this Labour Government either. Many be clear, as Chief

:35:52. > :35:56.Executive of his party, I do not want us playing second fiddle to

:35:57. > :36:00.anyone. Along to see this party leading Wales to a brighter future

:36:00. > :36:06.and becoming the party of Government and that is what I will

:36:06. > :36:10.focus on over the next few months. You have no doubt prepared speeches,

:36:10. > :36:16.you are giving a speech later on, how would you feel about that,

:36:16. > :36:22.being leader? This is my first political speech. It is nerve-

:36:22. > :36:32.racking. And looking forward to it. We are all looking forward to it.

:36:32. > :36:35.

:36:35. > :36:42.Do you rehearse in the mirror? he does not. I have rehearsed it

:36:42. > :36:51.you can decide this afternoon. long is it? Probably about 15

:36:51. > :36:56.minutes. Thank you for joining us. Now, the conference is going for

:36:56. > :37:00.lunch so let us look back of one of the debate yesterday. This is what

:37:00. > :37:04.the party had to debate about postgraduate funding.

:37:04. > :37:08.A conference initiatives over the past decade have led to an increase

:37:08. > :37:13.the number of wells school-leavers continue to higher education. In

:37:13. > :37:17.Wales, there are 100 and the 7,000 students studying in our

:37:17. > :37:22.universities and higher education institutions. Postgraduate study

:37:22. > :37:28.however, especially in economics and finance, is almost exclusively

:37:28. > :37:32.reserved for foreign students. I have recently graduated with over

:37:32. > :37:35.�25,000 of debt and have been forced to take out a career

:37:35. > :37:39.development loan from the retail banking sector to fund my

:37:39. > :37:43.postgraduate studies. I have also taken to gap years and will be

:37:43. > :37:46.working part-time throughout my course. It is no surprise that most

:37:46. > :37:50.graduates cannot bear the burden of continuing to add to the debt and

:37:50. > :37:54.are eager to enter the world will work as soon as possible. This is a

:37:54. > :38:03.great detriment well civil society. There must come and provide funding

:38:03. > :38:12.at present for... -- there will scum and provide funding a prison

:38:12. > :38:22.for... -- there were asked Government at present provide

:38:22. > :38:22.

:38:22. > :40:49.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 147 seconds

:40:49. > :40:56.And employing capitalist principles on our education system, a policy

:40:56. > :41:01.inspired by Labour, and capitalised on by the Tories, it resisted by

:41:01. > :41:04.the Lib Dem puppets. Plaid Cymru the only voice for a fully funded

:41:04. > :41:08.higher education and now it is the time for our party to lead the

:41:08. > :41:18.campaign and protect the ambitions of students and the invaluable work

:41:18. > :41:29.

:41:29. > :41:34.they produce for Wales. Hello. This last year, I had been

:41:34. > :41:38.studying for a maths degree and history. -- Masters degree. It is a

:41:38. > :41:43.subject and passionate about and I want to continue my research past

:41:43. > :41:47.graduation. Luckily, I was one of the few who received part funding

:41:47. > :41:51.for my fees, even though I time has been a constant struggle to keep my

:41:51. > :41:56.head above water in the face of debt and financial worries. I am by

:41:57. > :42:00.no means alone in this. Sadly, I often found myself asking why on

:42:00. > :42:04.earth I bothered. Living on a pittance and working up to 25 hours

:42:04. > :42:08.a week to get by a, which had the impact on the amount of time

:42:08. > :42:12.available for my university work, which was the reason I was there.

:42:12. > :42:17.It should not be this hard. Postgraduate study should not be

:42:17. > :42:21.the preserve of the rich. Students from all backgrounds should have an

:42:21. > :42:30.equal opportunity to study the subjects they laugh. This is why

:42:30. > :42:34.our urge you to support this motion. -- I urge you. The debate yesterday

:42:34. > :42:38.on postgraduate funding and apologies if you lost us briefly

:42:38. > :42:43.their due to technical difficulties. We are now back with our political

:42:44. > :42:49.editor. That was yesterday's debate, but they have been debating a

:42:49. > :42:53.motion on independence this morning. The wording used to be full

:42:53. > :42:58.national status within the European Union and the argument this morning

:42:58. > :43:01.was people are not entirely clear what that means. This is in the

:43:01. > :43:09.constitution of the party. constitution, are we going to

:43:09. > :43:14.change that? Independence, just carry very easily. You just come

:43:14. > :43:18.out and use it. It is a movement towards saying things bluntly, not

:43:18. > :43:22.hiding, not allowing others to point a finger at you and count how

:43:22. > :43:29.many times you use the Independent's word. As Elin Jones

:43:29. > :43:33.did many times this morning. She is pro independence. I do not think it

:43:33. > :43:43.fundament -- fundamentally does not mean anything difference that but,

:43:43. > :43:47.

:43:47. > :43:54.no longer talks about full national To what extent using what is

:43:55. > :44:00.happening here is being driven by the influence of Scotland? Is that

:44:00. > :44:04.the party pre-empting independence? Partly. Due to what is happening in

:44:04. > :44:08.Scotland and the language of politics in Scotland, why would

:44:08. > :44:12.Plaid Cymru be talking about full national state as if it does not

:44:12. > :44:18.mean anything different? If there is a not a subtlety and there which

:44:18. > :44:23.is different, I am sure that as in Scotland, you were now allowed to

:44:23. > :44:27.talk about independence. They do not want to be hostages to fortune.

:44:27. > :44:34.Are green, white to we used this word? Then it does not matter.

:44:34. > :44:37.We're right there, we are saying it. Elin Jones' line will be, we cannot

:44:37. > :44:42.leave towards this. She would like to, but it is not one glorious

:44:42. > :44:47.stuff, it would be one hell of a stack. The people of Wales are

:44:47. > :44:51.clearly not ready for it, but let's tell them where we would like to go.

:44:51. > :44:56.It is an open, Clear, part of the debate so that when things are

:44:56. > :45:02.being debated in Scotland, Plaid Cymru are very clear about what

:45:02. > :45:07.they want for Wales. What you say about the mood of the party? It is

:45:07. > :45:10.it -- is it a party with a mission or still licking its wounds? I do

:45:10. > :45:14.not think it is. Quite often you go to conferences where things have

:45:14. > :45:18.gone badly and expect everybody to be downbeat, then they turn out not

:45:18. > :45:24.to be because they have done that bit, they have realised fairly

:45:24. > :45:29.quickly that it is not attractive to have a party licking its wounds.

:45:29. > :45:34.You have to appear to be up for the pie -- fight but be prepared to

:45:34. > :45:39.deal with those wins. I think you very much heard from the new chief

:45:39. > :45:45.executive or turn what is going to be. They talked about that steely

:45:45. > :45:48.determination. Have become works -- make that work, or for the good of

:45:48. > :45:53.Plaid Cymru. There are rows done some sticky issues. She can talk

:45:53. > :45:57.about having your kick and eating it as far as that push, pull

:45:57. > :46:03.between political parties is concerned, but it is not easy to

:46:03. > :46:09.deliver on that. Are you packing your bags now I'm going to the Lib

:46:09. > :46:14.Dem cracked conference? Yes. Who have you got with you now?

:46:14. > :46:20.I have got a man who knows this part of the world very well. It is

:46:20. > :46:24.Gareth Jones. He is the current share of Plaid Cymru. You what

:46:24. > :46:30.seeking re-election today. A I am indeed. Some members think I have

:46:30. > :46:36.had done a good job. I have been standing in for the last year also.

:46:36. > :46:39.What went wrong at the election? do not think... I think the main

:46:39. > :46:44.thing that went wrong is that we took it for granted that people

:46:44. > :46:49.realise the amount of success that the One Wales government have had

:46:49. > :46:53.and the contribution that the Plaid Cymru members of that government

:46:53. > :46:58.made to make sure that programme was one that really did move Wales

:46:58. > :47:01.forward. I do not think we blow our own trumpets loud enough. I think

:47:01. > :47:06.perhaps that is why we put our resources possibly into the

:47:06. > :47:10.referendum. The had a great success with that. Perhaps we laid back too

:47:10. > :47:14.much and did not go for it in the election. We possibly took people

:47:14. > :47:19.too much for granted and did not make them more aware of the

:47:20. > :47:24.successes that we had. The Duke concur with that? Certainly. It is

:47:24. > :47:30.all about the ups and downs of politics. I have seen it personally.

:47:30. > :47:35.I lost out the first term here and then regained the seat under the

:47:35. > :47:40.name as it was then in that third term. Sold Barrar apse and downs,

:47:40. > :47:43.but it is all about engaging with people, as we queued from Elin

:47:43. > :47:48.Jones earlier. It is all about getting the message about what the

:47:48. > :47:52.party is standing for. We are engaging in that issue currently.

:47:52. > :47:57.Once you get that message over, you have to mix it with people and be

:47:57. > :48:02.realistic. You have to knock-on doors. You have to engage. You have

:48:02. > :48:06.to talk with people and convince them that Wales could be a better

:48:06. > :48:10.place. That is the simple message. But to what you have to work out

:48:10. > :48:14.what your messages and one of the main contenders for your next

:48:14. > :48:17.leader, Elin Jones, has made it clear that her message is very much

:48:17. > :48:21.independence. But the word which some people seemed embarrassed

:48:21. > :48:27.about for many years. They are not embarrassed about it now. At the

:48:28. > :48:31.same time, she said she wants to extend your reach. Can you do that?

:48:31. > :48:36.The three core principles of on has been a Welsh language and

:48:36. > :48:40.sustainability of the Welsh language. The social justice aspect

:48:40. > :48:44.of it and self government. How you interpret self- government, nobody

:48:44. > :48:49.in the party would shy away from that. At the end product is

:48:49. > :48:53.independence, so be it. We are really engaged in promoting the

:48:53. > :48:57.self- government of Wales. Make no mistake about that. There will be

:48:57. > :49:03.various discussions and arguments about that. Given the complexity,

:49:03. > :49:06.is it a difficult thing to sell? you listen to what Elin Jones said,

:49:06. > :49:10.she said it has got to be the will of the Welsh people if they want to

:49:10. > :49:14.go that far. We have got be clear that that is our aim and we have

:49:14. > :49:19.got to explain to the Welsh people what it would mean in terms of

:49:19. > :49:23.building Wales, a better Wales. Being responsible for our own lives

:49:23. > :49:27.and not expecting somebody the other side down in London to tell

:49:27. > :49:31.us what is best for us. I think the people of Wales know what is best

:49:31. > :49:34.for them. I think the message we have got to take to them is to

:49:34. > :49:38.explain more fully what exactly that means. It means being

:49:38. > :49:43.confident that we are able to run our own affairs are better than

:49:44. > :49:49.that they can on our behalf in London. Very briefly, is that bus

:49:49. > :49:53.down on a piecemeal basis? It could well be, but it is about the shift

:49:53. > :49:58.from being looked upon as a very dependent countries. We cannot do

:49:58. > :50:03.without the other countries of the UK. There are some who think that,

:50:03. > :50:09.but the fact is, Wales is becoming a dependent nation. We are seeking

:50:09. > :50:15.to become independent of non- dependant all interdependent

:50:15. > :50:21.countries. Thank you very much. We will see where this debate goes.

:50:22. > :50:27.is going to one of the party's elder statesman, Perhaps the

:50:27. > :50:36.party's eldest statesman. Dafydd Elis-Thomas. I am not even 65 yet.

:50:36. > :50:41.You could be the new leader. That is possible. You are going for it?

:50:41. > :50:51.Yes. I have accepted nomination -- nomination by our constituency

:50:51. > :50:57.party. The clear thing for any one is to have support from our home

:50:57. > :51:00.base. I have had indications from report across Wales in his

:51:00. > :51:05.conference. Nothing has happened since it has changed my mind. I

:51:05. > :51:10.have been Presiding Officer for 12 years. I have developed the Welsh

:51:10. > :51:15.constitution. By will not talk about my track record. We do know

:51:15. > :51:20.it. Elin Jones has made her speech earlier on the programme. We have

:51:20. > :51:24.huge her manifesto. How were your stiffer from hers? In one sense,

:51:24. > :51:28.right do not think it is for the reader to have a manifesto, I think

:51:28. > :51:31.it is for the reader to indicate to the party what direction he or she

:51:31. > :51:36.would want to take the party and then for the party to see how it

:51:36. > :51:42.responds to that. I do not have a shopping list, but I think it is

:51:42. > :51:44.important that we should be heading for One Wales two. I have got some

:51:44. > :51:48.very clear of detectives. Sustainability is a new

:51:48. > :51:53.independence. That means that sustainability has to affect the

:51:53. > :51:57.way we judge everything we do as a society. By am sitting here with

:51:57. > :52:00.those wonderful wind turbines at my back and that is the future. So it

:52:00. > :52:06.is not by the constitution for you, it is about getting back into bed

:52:06. > :52:12.with Labour? I'm not going into bed with anyone. I'll go to bed with my

:52:12. > :52:16.wife. I am very happy there. He won one of the rare people who are

:52:16. > :52:20.trumpeting and calling for a return to a coalition with Labour. I am

:52:20. > :52:24.not trumpeting. In that sense, went to Jamaica institution will be. I

:52:24. > :52:28.know you cannot have a government in power safely for five years that

:52:28. > :52:32.can achieve things and we need to achieve things, including

:52:32. > :52:36.sustainability. This cannot be achieved unless there is a clear

:52:36. > :52:40.working majority. You cannot get complex legislation without a

:52:40. > :52:43.proper working majority. That is what the government needs and that

:52:43. > :52:49.is what I would offer to the government. Clearly, the party

:52:49. > :52:55.would then have to consider whether the One Wales two is something the

:52:55. > :52:58.party could agree on. So if Carwyn Jones came knocking, would you go?

:52:58. > :53:03.I would make it known in my informal discussions which I have

:53:03. > :53:08.with people in government that I would be amenable to do this. I am

:53:08. > :53:12.making overtures on live TV. What more do you want? You one knocking

:53:12. > :53:16.his already. Not everyone in the party would join you. If they are

:53:16. > :53:21.not prepared to do that, they are in the wrong game. Politics is

:53:21. > :53:24.about responsibility. So surely, the party of Wales, Plaid Cymru,

:53:25. > :53:29.which has talking about governing Wales, should take its

:53:30. > :53:34.responsibility in government. This is a duty laid upon us. What would

:53:34. > :53:40.be a price? What would Carwyn Jones have to give you? I think that the

:53:40. > :53:46.it is not a price, but the obvious things are effective green polity

:53:46. > :53:50.is -- policies. That means tackling fuel poverty much more successfully.

:53:50. > :53:54.Renewable energy is a key issue. I have been very concerned about what

:53:54. > :53:59.happened and what has been happening to Jane Davidson's green

:53:59. > :54:05.policies. It is quite a low price. You can hear him delivering that.

:54:05. > :54:10.These are important issues. I do not think of it in terms of prize.

:54:10. > :54:13.What I'm looking for is a programme of government which would be

:54:13. > :54:18.negotiated to co-operate over a period of four years. That is the

:54:18. > :54:23.sensible way to operate. You, perhaps, would not initiate a

:54:23. > :54:28.debate on the constitution. The candidates might do so. Where to

:54:28. > :54:33.stand on independence would? I am a bit of a philosopher. Therefore, I

:54:33. > :54:38.believe that that there is no such thing in the 21st century as

:54:38. > :54:42.independents, personally. Everyone is interdependent. I just issued

:54:42. > :54:46.Gareth say the same sort of thing. But I cannot live with the phrase

:54:46. > :54:50.which says independence in Europe because what that means is that in

:54:50. > :54:54.a Europe which is developing, the Europe's Central Bank is in crisis

:54:54. > :54:59.yet again today. We have to have his community, we have to have

:54:59. > :55:04.collaboration within and out side the eurozone. There are huge issues

:55:04. > :55:07.there. That is not about independence in the old way. But an

:55:07. > :55:13.independent Wales in the long term? I do not think in those terms

:55:14. > :55:19.either. It is a legislative union of Europe. I would like what of the

:55:19. > :55:22.Catalans have. Scotland is another couple of fish. Scotland has a

:55:22. > :55:26.special relationship with England. It has a history of a separate a

:55:26. > :55:32.monarchy. We do not have that. Not even the Prince of Wales, the great

:55:32. > :55:36.people who find it is part of the world in modern times, not even

:55:36. > :55:40.today had a independent Wales. this about talking about a review

:55:40. > :55:44.and getting more powers on broadcasting, policing, borrowing

:55:44. > :55:49.powers and slowly coming towards independence, that would not be the

:55:49. > :55:53.Geneva that you would take this party on? There are issues. I have

:55:53. > :55:57.got no appetite myself for trying to lead constitutional change. I

:55:57. > :56:02.have been doing that for 12 years. I think we need to attack the real

:56:02. > :56:06.issues. Do you not belong with the Labour party's never. I have been

:56:06. > :56:10.in his party or was 50 years. By have never belonged in the Labour

:56:10. > :56:14.Party. I am here to criticise the Labour Party and take over from it

:56:14. > :56:21.eventually. This is what this party is about. That is what we need more

:56:21. > :56:25.and more as the 20th century was on. But I am saying is that we should

:56:25. > :56:29.not be concentrating on constitutional issues. There may be

:56:29. > :56:33.areas of policing that we need to do with. Broadcasting, I am not

:56:33. > :56:39.interested in broadcasting. I'm interested in a communication

:56:39. > :56:42.policy across all digital platforms. One channel, one authority is not

:56:42. > :56:49.the issue. The issue is coucher and how that works and so on and so