15/09/2012

:00:11. > :00:15.Welcome that to Brechin and a two of the Plaid Cymru Conference. They

:00:15. > :00:19.have been ripping through this part of the world today, but we are

:00:19. > :00:29.asking why this party with its new driver is heading and whether it is

:00:29. > :00:37.

:00:37. > :00:41.on course for electoral success. Good afternoon. Welcome to wed the

:00:41. > :00:45.delegates have gathered for their annual conference. We heard from

:00:46. > :00:50.their new leader Leanne Wood yesterday. She is insistent that

:00:50. > :00:54.the economy and jobs are her priorities. We will hear from her

:00:54. > :01:00.later and incidentally, on the issue of independence in her speech.

:01:00. > :01:08.We will be asking what her plan is for the economy. Let us introduce

:01:08. > :01:14.the team for the next two hours. You have covered these conferences

:01:14. > :01:19.For over a quarter of a century. is a bit worrying isn't it? To see

:01:19. > :01:25.your life go by in a succession of conferences! You have seen their

:01:25. > :01:30.ups and downs, where are they now? I would say somewhere in the middle.

:01:30. > :01:35.Plaid Cymru had his big breakthrough with 15 years ago in

:01:35. > :01:39.1999. Since then, it has been at. Of relatively continual but a

:01:39. > :01:43.gentle decline. Now they're trying something new, they have a new

:01:43. > :01:46.leader and they are trying to refrain the message, but really no

:01:46. > :01:50.one can be certain of that all work and there are an awful lot of

:01:50. > :01:54.external factors that will govern how successful they are in the next

:01:54. > :01:58.few years, in particular I am thinking of the referendum in

:01:58. > :02:03.Scotland and the next UK general election. Those results will impact

:02:03. > :02:08.on the most important elections for Plaid Cymru, the Assembly elections

:02:08. > :02:11.the following year. It is a period of transition for the party, we are

:02:11. > :02:15.not particularly down in the dumps, but they are not excited about the

:02:15. > :02:19.future either. Much more to come and throughout the afternoon will

:02:19. > :02:24.be will be popping in and out of the hall and guiding us through

:02:24. > :02:28.against their will be Aled ap Dayydd. As you mention, the party

:02:28. > :02:34.faithful heard from their new leader yesterday. They are now

:02:34. > :02:39.listening it to their old leader who is leading an discussion,

:02:39. > :02:43.calling on public bodies to inject some much-needed cash into the

:02:43. > :02:48.economy. I will be keeping an eye here and keep you abreast of the

:02:48. > :02:54.latest votes than notions. Let us pop outside to our correspondent

:02:54. > :02:59.who is getting reaction to the events in the hall. Hello there. I

:02:59. > :03:02.have come out to this canal and I will be talking to councillors,

:03:03. > :03:08.activists and pundits to find out whether Plaid Cymru has the wind in

:03:08. > :03:13.its sales as the conference does to a close. Thank you. Another quick

:03:13. > :03:19.word with you. You say they are somewhere in the middle, how

:03:19. > :03:24.ambitious is Leanne Wood in terms of her timescale? Well, in terms of

:03:24. > :03:28.achieving independence, she has said it is part of her campaign,

:03:28. > :03:31.she is very unambitious. She has been very open at this conference,

:03:31. > :03:35.saying it when people say to us Wales could not afford the

:03:35. > :03:40.Independent, they are probably right. In that sense, she is

:03:40. > :03:44.looking at a very long-term process off of attaining in depends them -

:03:44. > :03:48.and independence. She is continually talking about a Plaid

:03:48. > :03:51.Cymru government. It is very difficult given the political

:03:51. > :03:56.dynamics in Wales at the moment to see that happening, but remember

:03:56. > :04:00.they were not that far off the being the largest party way back in

:04:00. > :04:04.1999. She is trying to created the circumstances and policies were she

:04:04. > :04:08.hopes making it into the position of forming a government. That is

:04:08. > :04:13.very ambitious, at some people would call it foolhardy. A party

:04:13. > :04:18.they cannot stand up and say well all be in opposition for ever. She

:04:18. > :04:21.is trying to finesse those two things, of trying not to sound as

:04:21. > :04:25.if she is ludicrously over- ambitious, but at the same time

:04:25. > :04:32.trying to project an air of confidence. This is not her first

:04:32. > :04:37.conference. Looking back at the first six months, how is she doing?

:04:37. > :04:41.The jury is still out in terms of the party faithful. I do not sense

:04:41. > :04:47.any great unhappiness or disquiet about her leadership, I think

:04:47. > :04:51.people feel in some areas that she has improved. I think when she was

:04:51. > :04:56.elected, people knew they were electing a work-in-progress. At big

:04:56. > :05:01.mandate though? Yes. I think they were voting for a change. They did

:05:01. > :05:06.not feel that as more of the same would achieve anything and that is

:05:06. > :05:11.what they were voting against in not have voting for Ellis Thomas.

:05:11. > :05:15.Most people here will say they think she is getting there in terms

:05:16. > :05:19.of broadcast interviews, in terms of speech-making, but there is

:05:19. > :05:23.disquiet that she is not a grounding in the sort of blows that

:05:23. > :05:29.she promised to in the leadership campaign. She said she would take

:05:29. > :05:38.the fight to Carmarthen. We can argue about how important they are

:05:38. > :05:43.outside. She is not lane in many blows on the First Minister.

:05:43. > :05:47.will be hearing from her later. She has made it clear it is all about

:05:47. > :05:53.the economy and jobs. During the leadership campaign, it was all

:05:53. > :06:01.about independence. He is this that the reality of being in charge,

:06:01. > :06:05.that that is not the way to reach out be on the party. The party says

:06:05. > :06:10.Leanne Wood is in favour of independence, because she based her

:06:10. > :06:15.leadership contest on that. People are worried about money in their

:06:15. > :06:19.pockets, the jobs they feel might be in danger, and the jobs they may

:06:19. > :06:22.already have lost, they're not going to take kindly to a party

:06:22. > :06:27.leader who is talking about a further progression on the

:06:27. > :06:32.devolution process at a time of economic difficulty. On the economy,

:06:32. > :06:37.she is talking about agreeing a deal. Take us through that, because

:06:37. > :06:45.this is going to be crucial. We do not have the details, but we can

:06:45. > :06:51.guess about it. We are beginning to see something honest. She published

:06:51. > :06:55.some details on that. It is what we are hearing quite a lot from the

:06:55. > :06:59.Democrats in the United States of creating a clean and green economy

:06:59. > :07:04.by using traditional methods. Pumping public money and increasing

:07:04. > :07:07.public investment in economy and spending it not as the original New

:07:07. > :07:12.Deal are back in the 1930s did on things like highways, but on things

:07:12. > :07:19.that are necessary for us and ecology. This includes things like

:07:19. > :07:23.transport, new energy sources and so on. We are beginning to see a

:07:23. > :07:27.details and ideas and there is talk as some kind of World Bank, the

:07:27. > :07:37.Conservatives are also well considering that idea, and there is

:07:37. > :07:45.

:07:45. > :07:49.the idea of a... Wales is very close, and net exporter of energy

:07:49. > :07:53.at the moment, and that amount of energy is likely to increase.

:07:53. > :07:57.she implement that straightaway are watching the more powers, more

:07:57. > :08:00.economic levers before she could do that? There are some things that

:08:00. > :08:03.could be implemented straight away, other things she could ask

:08:03. > :08:07.Westminster to do and she might be pushing on this, a classic example

:08:07. > :08:11.is that the UK government are talking of establishing what are

:08:11. > :08:16.called Challenger banks, the UK government has promised at least

:08:16. > :08:21.one, there is talk at UK level it may be one of those banks should

:08:21. > :08:25.not be UK wide by, it should be an independent bank in Wales, an

:08:25. > :08:28.independent bank in the west of England, that they should be

:08:28. > :08:33.regionally based banks. If that is part of the plan, she might well

:08:33. > :08:37.find that the UK government would be in agreement with that. To what

:08:37. > :08:43.extent is she rebranding the rebranding of Plaid Cymru? She is

:08:43. > :08:47.from the left, Ishi swinging the party right over to the left?

:08:47. > :08:50.it isn't it is a rebranding, in that the name has not changed and

:08:50. > :08:58.the logo has not changed and the basic slogans as far as I can see

:08:58. > :09:02.have not changed. I think it is more what they call a refraining,

:09:02. > :09:05.where she is not changing what you are saying, what you are changing

:09:05. > :09:10.is the emphasis and the attention that you give to particular parts

:09:10. > :09:14.of the message. That economic message, not anything hugelyYet,

:09:14. > :09:17.but choosing to talk about that, rather than the state of the health

:09:17. > :09:23.service, the state of the education service, let alone constitutional

:09:23. > :09:28.issues, that is a change. I put it as a refraining of what they are

:09:28. > :09:35.trying to show, rather than as a rebranding or a real change in

:09:35. > :09:40.policy terms. She said she would take the fight straight to Labour.

:09:40. > :09:48.There is talk of her doing a deal with Labour. Where are we on at the

:09:48. > :09:55.in terms of the one deal she has done so far or as back with the Les

:09:55. > :09:59.Lee Griffiths affair? Unless there was an extreme change of

:09:59. > :10:03.circumstance, the reason I say that is twofold. First of all, Labour

:10:04. > :10:09.have had no great difficulty governing with just 30 out of 60

:10:09. > :10:15.members so far, he to coast along like that. The larger the party are

:10:15. > :10:19.you deal with, but higher the price UK. He is in a situation where he

:10:20. > :10:24.has a smaller party in the Assembly, the Liberal Democrats, who, if I

:10:24. > :10:28.can put it crudely, are gagging for a deal, because a coalition with

:10:28. > :10:32.Labour in Cardiff Bay would help offset some of the damage the Welsh

:10:32. > :10:37.Liberal Democrats feel in been in coalition with the Conservatives in

:10:37. > :10:42.Westminster has done them. If he did want a coalition deal and there

:10:42. > :10:49.is no sign that he doors particularly, logic would tend to

:10:49. > :10:56.suggest that he turned to Liberal- Democrat so. It was interesting to

:10:56. > :11:03.see that he was here for Leanne Wood's speech yesterday. The did

:11:03. > :11:07.have that falling out. He actually lost the Plaid Cymru whip and then

:11:07. > :11:14.a Leanne Wood climb down some would say, others would say that she

:11:14. > :11:19.withdrew gracefully. He has the potential to be a slightly loose

:11:19. > :11:24.cannon. The idea that he would ever jump ship in terms of membership

:11:24. > :11:28.from Plaid Cymru to Labour it is stretching it far too far. I do not

:11:28. > :11:31.think it is stretching it too far to say that he could and at times

:11:31. > :11:35.it be a useful vote for Labour in the chamber on particular issues

:11:35. > :11:44.because he has shown already that he is not afraid to buck the party

:11:44. > :11:49.whip if he feels like it. Thank you. Earlier this morning, the party

:11:49. > :11:53.decided to discuss an emergency motion on the report into the

:11:53. > :11:58.Hillsborough disaster published earlier this week. It was led in

:11:58. > :12:01.the debate this morning and has to reduce some of the part of the

:12:01. > :12:06.motion, the conference would welcome the publication of the

:12:06. > :12:10.report, sympathises that the family, also states that justice for the

:12:10. > :12:14.families was denied and believes that this is a substantial blow to

:12:14. > :12:20.the moral authority of the state and the motion also backed a call

:12:21. > :12:26.for a new full public inquiry. As I said, that motion was proposed by

:12:26. > :12:33.the parliamentary leader of the party. Last Wednesday in House of

:12:33. > :12:41.Commons, but there was a lot of shouting, as usual, lots of hurling

:12:41. > :12:46.of insults, the worse kind you can think of. One minute later, this

:12:46. > :12:55.statement was made by the Minister about what really happened in

:12:55. > :13:00.Hillsborough. The chamber was quiet for an hour aura of -- and are and

:13:00. > :13:06.have and everyone there and everyone there was ceded the

:13:06. > :13:13.greatest shock on hearing it. It is really difficult to believe the

:13:13. > :13:18.size of what has happened. It is very difficult to a mansion that

:13:18. > :13:26.150 statements were faked, forged by police, the ambulance and Fire

:13:26. > :13:36.Service. This was in order to ensure that they came out of it

:13:36. > :13:44.well. It reminds me of an appeal by the Guildford Four and the judge

:13:45. > :13:48.who was the chairman that day and he turned to a barrister and asked

:13:48. > :13:53.of the other barrister do you expect us to believe that the

:13:53. > :13:58.police sat down and changed all the statements? Is this the sort of

:13:58. > :14:08.thing we are supposed to believe? The bail was refused. What happened

:14:08. > :14:09.

:14:09. > :14:15.here, the conspiracy is far wider and greater than that. It is a

:14:15. > :14:20.conspiracy on a huge scale. It is absolutely frightening, it is on a

:14:20. > :14:27.commercial scale. Just imagine how it was for the families who have

:14:27. > :14:34.fought for 23 years to get to the truth. They have been rebuffed and,

:14:34. > :14:39.time after time, it is easy to judge Justice Taylor and Smyth and

:14:39. > :14:45.the courts. The truth is a tribunal is only as good as the evidence in

:14:45. > :14:50.front of it and if the police faked the evidence it then it follows

:14:50. > :14:56.naturally the that the result that the end will be wrong. But to come

:14:56. > :15:00.back to the way that these small families have fought against the

:15:00. > :15:07.flow and the tight time after time, persistently and conscientiously

:15:07. > :15:15.for 23 years, it to get it to last Wednesday, to get a glimpse of hope

:15:15. > :15:20.and of truth. Believe me, the truth that does not sit comfortably and

:15:20. > :15:25.it is not easy to take. I'm grateful they did it, because they

:15:25. > :15:35.wanted to get closure and in my opinion, they have taken a massive

:15:35. > :15:46.

:15:46. > :15:51.step in withstanding the state and I am sure of the Attorney-General

:15:51. > :16:00.will order a new inquest which is right and proper. I conscientiously

:16:00. > :16:09.believe that every single person who lied or hid evidence should be

:16:10. > :16:18.prosecuted all the way through the courts, despite the fact. I do not

:16:18. > :16:24.think, in my age, I have never seen anything as awful as what happened

:16:24. > :16:32.that followed Hillsborough. People say, what has it got to do with

:16:32. > :16:41.Plaid Cymru? We are all flesh and blood and secondly, two off my

:16:41. > :16:48.friends were there at the time and had to step over the bodies of

:16:48. > :16:52.children. And when you take the blood tests of children of ten

:16:52. > :16:58.years old and claimed that they were drinking, got news -- God

:16:58. > :17:03.knows who thought of this but certainly, what we have to do is

:17:03. > :17:12.support every effort to turn this ugly truth into justice on behalf

:17:12. > :17:16.of all those families. Not only because of the justice for what we

:17:16. > :17:20.should be doing, the right thing, but also, if we do not do this,

:17:20. > :17:26.then it raises a big question, it raises a question of the authority,

:17:26. > :17:36.the moral authority of the state to govern. It is that deep and that is

:17:36. > :17:43.what I told the Prime Minister on Wednesday to stop --. It goes to

:17:43. > :17:48.the core of the state. We will have to sweep clean and get justice for

:17:48. > :17:51.these people. Can I ask you, my friends, to please support this

:17:51. > :18:01.emergency motion and show that we support these poor people who have

:18:01. > :18:10.

:18:10. > :18:20.Can have a point of information, since this is of key importance, in

:18:20. > :18:22.

:18:22. > :18:32.the Welsh, in. Four, it says denied, justice was denied. We have one

:18:32. > :18:32.

:18:32. > :18:42.further Speaker. TRANSLATION: There was a typographical error in Welsh.

:18:42. > :18:52.

:18:52. > :19:00.TRANSLATION: Chris Bailey, a town councillor but prior to that, town

:19:00. > :19:09.councillor in Holly Wells. I come from Flintshire. I will tell you

:19:09. > :19:13.why, in the second, nobody wants to hear my Flintshire tones, I will

:19:13. > :19:20.return to English. I spent the first 40 years of my

:19:20. > :19:25.life in Flintshire. For 30 years, I was leader of the Plaid Cymru group

:19:25. > :19:28.in Holywell Town Council and we were fortunate have councillors on

:19:28. > :19:36.the county council as well, such as Gareth Roberts who is still there,

:19:36. > :19:40.who has been a Plaid Cymru county council are, serving Holly Wells

:19:40. > :19:46.since 1964 and we really should comment on that at some time in the

:19:47. > :19:51.future -- Holywell. The reason I talk about, although it was

:19:51. > :20:01.supporters of Liverpool Football Club who were affected, one of them,

:20:01. > :20:05.I did not know him well, but his brother was a member of the Plaid

:20:05. > :20:10.Cymru Holywell branch, of which I was secretary. We had 100 members

:20:10. > :20:18.so I knew his brother a lot better. I met the 18-year-old who died on a

:20:18. > :20:22.couple of occasions, if that. But I really support this motion. The

:20:22. > :20:30.problems that occurred, unfortunately, we all saw on the

:20:30. > :20:36.television screens, that mistakes were made, but more than mistakes,

:20:36. > :20:43.the alleged attempt to cover up the list Ixworth disgraceful and still

:20:43. > :20:52.are disgraceful and the fact that they took 23 years to acknowledge

:20:52. > :20:56.that people told lies, and one certain comic that calls itself a

:20:56. > :21:02.newspaper, strange that so many shops in Liverpool refused to sell

:21:02. > :21:07.it for many, many years. We all know why. They told lies about the

:21:07. > :21:12.people of the Liverpool area and supporters, not all of them, came

:21:12. > :21:19.from Liverpool but decided to support that club. It is irrelevant

:21:19. > :21:28.which football club it is, Everton football supporters got behind

:21:28. > :21:36.Liverpool. And even Manchester supporters. My teams are Holywell

:21:36. > :21:45.Town and Wrexham. We did what little we could. I hope that

:21:45. > :21:49.everybody would get behind now. I acknowledge what Cameron said and I

:21:49. > :21:54.think he was right to say it. What a shame that Thatcher did not say

:21:54. > :22:02.it all those years ago when she was in power. Why did it take 23 years

:22:02. > :22:08.to realise that the police were telling lies? Us and that certain

:22:08. > :22:13.statements were doctored. We all knew that. The people of Merseyside

:22:13. > :22:18.certainly knew that. I was in college in Liverpool at this time

:22:18. > :22:28.one day a week. The city was like a morgue. People could not talk about

:22:28. > :22:28.

:22:28. > :22:33.anything else. It was not just the disaster that occurred, it was the

:22:33. > :22:40.lies that everybody knew that were being told and I am pleased that

:22:40. > :22:45.they are now being acknowledged. All these years later. What a pity

:22:45. > :22:51.that it took so long. I am sure that there must be parents, family

:22:51. > :23:00.members, friends, that tunnel to mount -- that are not around any

:23:00. > :23:04.more tea here -- to hear the acknowledgement of the injustice.

:23:04. > :23:10.This motion goes to everybody that was affected, the families, the

:23:10. > :23:20.friends, the communities that were affected and I certainly support

:23:20. > :23:23.

:23:23. > :23:28.Chris Bailey ending that emergency motion on Hillsborough which was

:23:28. > :23:31.discussed earlier in the conference hall. We can go back outside to our

:23:31. > :23:37.correspondent Tomos Livingstone. Thank you, I am joined by

:23:37. > :23:47.Councillor Steffen William from the Vale of Glamorgan, by Karen Jones

:23:47. > :23:49.

:23:49. > :23:53.from plied camera youth. -- Plaid Cymru you. What will make it easier

:23:53. > :23:59.for you to win more support in your area? At the moment I am feeling

:23:59. > :24:04.very buoyant. With Leanne's speech yesterday, if I could encapsulate

:24:04. > :24:08.that in one word, I would say positivity would that word. She was

:24:08. > :24:13.positive about job creation and finding home-made solutions for the

:24:13. > :24:18.problems which affect Wales. That is what people want to know about.

:24:18. > :24:23.What I loved about Leanne's speech yesterday was the emphasis about

:24:23. > :24:28.how important people are. It was not just empty rhetoric. It

:24:28. > :24:32.addressed a lot of issues such as the creation of this economic

:24:32. > :24:37.Commission. And I think it is because people are core and she

:24:37. > :24:43.showed that she really cared. It has been a great summer for us in

:24:43. > :24:48.my neck of the woods, in Barry. We won a by-election on 2nd August in

:24:48. > :24:53.a Labour Party stronghold where we achieved a front page on the front

:24:53. > :24:57.of the Independent. They lost the seat because their message was very

:24:57. > :25:04.negative and I was was very positive and stems from that same

:25:05. > :25:12.value about caring for people. I am very, very heartened by the entire

:25:12. > :25:16.conference. It is brimming with enthusiasm. You are very upbeat! I

:25:16. > :25:22.will bring Karen Wynn Jones in. What did you hear in the speech

:25:22. > :25:28.which enthused you to go out and get people to vote Plaid Cymru?

:25:28. > :25:35.is Leanne's message about the economy and jobs. We have had

:25:35. > :25:41.discussions panel's discussing the youth unemployment. It was nice to

:25:41. > :25:45.hear Leanne focusing now on that economic growth we really need.

:25:45. > :25:50.That economic growth in Wales is going to come from Welsh people. We

:25:50. > :25:56.are, as people, going to do this ourselves. If we all do a little

:25:56. > :26:01.bit together, we can hopefully ensure more jobs and better economy

:26:01. > :26:09.in Wales for us. And if I can ask Bethan Jenkins, do we know what

:26:09. > :26:13.sort of leader Leanne will after that speech? We have to focus on

:26:13. > :26:18.the economy because it has to get worse before it gets better. With

:26:18. > :26:21.the cuts the UK government are inflicting on us. Become a

:26:21. > :26:26.commission will have to get to grips with some of the very

:26:26. > :26:30.difficult things we have to face here in Wales. I think come up with

:26:30. > :26:35.new, innovative ideas, as she said yesterday and also I think what

:26:35. > :26:40.really made me feel enthused was to say, my mother didn't want me to

:26:40. > :26:44.have to work in a bad environment, she wanted me to be able to be

:26:44. > :26:49.successful. Coming from the South Wales Valleys, I think we all want

:26:49. > :26:53.to inspire a new generation to get involved in politics and not just

:26:53. > :26:59.the ass as cardboard cut-outs of each other and Lehane is an

:26:59. > :27:05.inspiring leader. Thank you for the three of you. I think these three

:27:05. > :27:07.people are very much buoyed up by what they heard yesterday.

:27:07. > :27:13.Thank you. This time yesterday Leanne Wood was getting ready for

:27:13. > :27:17.her speech. Today, she is with us. 24 hours later. Thank you for

:27:17. > :27:27.joining us. This time yesterday, how nervous way you? I was quite

:27:27. > :27:30.nervous, I have to admit there. It was the first speech I did around

:27:30. > :27:34.the world. The first speech traded in the spring conference was just a

:27:34. > :27:41.few days after my election so I did not have much time to think about

:27:41. > :27:47.it. But this time once I got into it, the nerves of went. Let's have

:27:47. > :27:52.a look at some of your speech. You do not like watching yourself, do

:27:52. > :27:56.you? It will not be too long. It is plain to see that the Welsh

:27:56. > :28:01.economy is seriously underperforming. Our economic and

:28:01. > :28:07.development is the single biggest hurdle to our progress as a nation.

:28:07. > :28:12.It condemns us to dependence on a government in Westminster of

:28:12. > :28:19.whichever view that will never have Wales'' interests as its overriding

:28:19. > :28:25.priority. It does not have to be this way. I would decline -- our

:28:25. > :28:35.decline, are possiblity -- poverty has never been inevitable. Group

:28:35. > :28:40.will raise -- we will make rising the economy our overriding priority.

:28:40. > :28:46.To get there, we will have to use all the skills at our disposal,

:28:46. > :28:51.public, private, voluntary. In a small nation, we cannot hide away,

:28:51. > :28:56.we have to work together. Our economic Commission is looking at a

:28:56. > :28:59.comprehensive strategy. But I have asked the commission to look

:28:59. > :29:06.specifically at three sets of measures that a Plaid Cymru

:29:06. > :29:14.government could implement. Firstly, establishing a new mutual

:29:14. > :29:18.innovation and enterprise of Wales. Bringing together the best of the

:29:18. > :29:27.skills of the public and private sectors to push forward a Welsh New

:29:27. > :29:34.Deal. It was de Jade Davies in the 30s who first called for a

:29:34. > :29:39.development authority in Wales. It is time to reinvigorate, regenerate

:29:39. > :29:44.and create a new catalyst fit for Wales of the 21st century. Second

:29:44. > :29:49.year, if the London-based banks will not learn to Welsh businesses,

:29:49. > :29:54.then we need to create our own financial system, so that more of

:29:54. > :30:03.the money made in Wales stays in Wales. Channel 4 has its own ban of

:30:03. > :30:10.Dave, let's have our own Bank of Dave. Let's free finance Wales to

:30:10. > :30:16.become a real development bank, create a whole sale bank, build up

:30:16. > :30:22.a network of Business Credit Unions and turned the existing patchwork

:30:22. > :30:27.of community lenders into a National Savings super mutual.

:30:27. > :30:32.Public sector pension funds in Wales have billions in assets. 6

:30:32. > :30:38.billion in total, hardly any of it is invested in Wales. Surely we can

:30:38. > :30:42.do better? As part bower further recommendations we will seek the

:30:42. > :30:47.power to offer tax breaks. Similar to those currently available in

:30:47. > :30:52.Canada to those pension funds prepared to invest in their own

:30:52. > :30:56.communities. Investing two or 3% of our own workers' assets and Wales,

:30:56. > :31:06.would help transform the Welsh economy, while representing no risk

:31:06. > :31:08.

:31:08. > :31:11.at all to the future returns to That is a flavour of some of the

:31:11. > :31:20.things that the can and will do in government. We can do great things

:31:20. > :31:23.with hard work and with self-belief. At Westminster, our team, will

:31:23. > :31:28.continue to offer alternatives to the UK Government's strategy and

:31:28. > :31:35.believe me, I will do the same when I needed a new Welsh Secretary. The

:31:35. > :31:37.sad truth is, Plan B are made be a long time coming. Government after

:31:37. > :31:44.government in Westminster are believed that there was only one

:31:44. > :31:50.game in town, one industry in one city and that industry was the city

:31:50. > :31:56.and the City was London. Now, that industry was found wanting and so

:31:56. > :32:03.are the cupboard is bare. There is no point in looking to London for

:32:03. > :32:08.our salvation. Changing be head of UK plc will make as much difference

:32:08. > :32:13.to Wales as changing ahead of Barclays has done for the culture

:32:13. > :32:17.of the City of London. Personalities come and go up in a

:32:17. > :32:22.London's corridors of power, but the policies and priorities and

:32:22. > :32:30.problems for Wales persist. The only way we will build his from of

:32:30. > :32:36.the bottom up. As DJ Davies said that in the 1930s economic crisis,

:32:36. > :32:43.it is Wales alone in that can lift Wales from the dust. There is every

:32:43. > :32:48.reason for us to be helpful. Wales can do a great things. We can fight,

:32:48. > :32:53.not just the battle, but a war against injustice, poverty and

:32:53. > :33:00.adversity and we can win. We can finish the course and claim the

:33:00. > :33:06.prize, not for ourselves, not for this party, but for Wales. For the

:33:06. > :33:12.people and the land that we all love. I may have achieved in my

:33:12. > :33:18.mother's ambition, I do not have a her red and raw hands, but I have

:33:18. > :33:25.or hard of courage and I pledge to you this, I will work for as long

:33:25. > :33:30.and as hard as this in body and mind allows me to get us to where

:33:30. > :33:40.we want to be you. This is in the sure knowledge that if we believe,

:33:40. > :33:54.

:33:54. > :33:58.if we really believe, Wales can and Wales Wayne -- Wales will win.

:33:58. > :34:03.standing ovation for Leanne Wood as she led to do all yesterday and she

:34:03. > :34:08.is with us now. Did she like watching yourself? It is always a

:34:08. > :34:14.bit awkward! Do you have to pinch yourself that you are leader of

:34:14. > :34:19.Plaid Cymru? Yes, I do. I have been at it like that since I was elected

:34:19. > :34:23.as an Assembly member as well. That is the thing about representative

:34:23. > :34:29.democracy, anybody should be able to become a politician and I think

:34:29. > :34:33.that the Assembly has given people like myself, working-class people,

:34:34. > :34:38.an opportunity to represent other people and it is important to have

:34:38. > :34:41.a voices from the range of backgrounds as well in politics. I

:34:41. > :34:45.think our Assembly anti-pollution has given us that, which is a good

:34:45. > :34:49.thing. You have been coming to these as a delegate and as an

:34:49. > :34:54.Assembly member and you now come as leader. You do not quite get the

:34:54. > :34:58.red carpet, but he would not want the trappings were due? Are you

:34:58. > :35:03.enjoying it or is it stressed will at times? And of course it can be

:35:03. > :35:09.stressful, but it is a good job to have. The membership of Plaid Cymru

:35:09. > :35:12.is extremely supportive of what I have done so far in my first six

:35:12. > :35:17.months and the response I have had to the speech yesterday has been

:35:17. > :35:21.really positive. That aspect is great. How does Leanne Wood go

:35:21. > :35:28.about preparing speeches? Do you lock yourself away and get

:35:28. > :35:35.inspiration, what is the process? Had you get that moment? I have got

:35:35. > :35:42.a good team of people and we work together on a lot of the research

:35:43. > :35:48.behind the speech. When did you start that process? Around the

:35:48. > :35:52.middle of August. It goes on for some time. The first version it

:35:52. > :36:00.usually ends up in the bin and the speech that is delivered is usually

:36:00. > :36:04.the last version. Do you make last- minute tweaks the? Yes, I think

:36:04. > :36:09.that there are always refinements to make right up until the very end.

:36:09. > :36:15.It is a team effort. It is not all your words, it is this group, you

:36:15. > :36:20.have got you on to a rash? Who is their writing that speak? And I am

:36:20. > :36:27.not going to name people. Can we work very much as a team. That is

:36:27. > :36:33.my way of working, as a collective, in terms of my work. You are a

:36:33. > :36:38.mother, a very busy mother. Had to cope with that? I have a great

:36:38. > :36:43.partner who helps a lot. I live in the street that I grew up then and

:36:43. > :36:48.my mother and father live up the road and they help as well. He said

:36:48. > :36:55.in your speech yesterday, I am what I am, you get what you get, no

:36:55. > :36:59.Zinnia, no damage, just would. You're authenticity is clearly a

:36:59. > :37:09.big part of Leanne Wood. How were you going to keep that and not grow

:37:09. > :37:19.

:37:19. > :37:23.at the near? You do need a tough skin. That I cannot say for sure

:37:23. > :37:27.that that will happen. That thing is to be aware of an trying keep my

:37:27. > :37:33.feet on the ground and stay rooted among the membership of the party

:37:33. > :37:37.and the community but I live in. I live on a street where people would

:37:37. > :37:41.not accept me getting above my station and that is a good thing.

:37:41. > :37:47.Let us look at your plan. You made it clear in your speech that you

:37:47. > :37:50.intend to be the First Minister in 2016. He also said that people have

:37:50. > :37:55.seen through politicians who promise the earth but just leave a

:37:55. > :38:01.bitter disappointment. Here you are, it saying you will be leader, you

:38:01. > :38:09.have to live up to that. That is a hell of a challenge! We have to be

:38:09. > :38:13.ambitious. We need to be ambitious as for too long, Wales has been

:38:13. > :38:17.second best, our economy has been in decline for 20 years, things

:38:17. > :38:22.have to change. We have to stop thinking like winners and unless we

:38:22. > :38:32.do that, we are going to stay in the same situation now we are in.

:38:32. > :38:33.

:38:33. > :38:38.At interesting drawings of words, because you said leading Plaid

:38:38. > :38:43.Cymru government. That would be a big moment? Are you talking about a

:38:43. > :38:46.coalition? If we fall a little bit short and we end up leading up a

:38:46. > :38:53.coalition, that would not be a bad second prize. We should aim for the

:38:53. > :38:59.top prize however. You're aiming for this with in four years? Up why

:38:59. > :39:04.not? Were let us look at Plan B, a coalition. Who would you look to?

:39:04. > :39:10.It would have to be Labour would win Det? Or the Liberal Democrats.

:39:10. > :39:14.I have personally said on a number of times that I do not see how our

:39:14. > :39:18.values and the Conservative Party baddies could come together

:39:18. > :39:22.sufficiently to form a programme of government. That may be tricky with

:39:22. > :39:30.the other parties because a programme of government could be

:39:30. > :39:35.very ambitious, but I do think that we will by 2016 and be true and

:39:36. > :39:38.full programme of government and if one of the parties to the centre or

:39:38. > :39:44.to the left of the political spectrum are prepared to work with

:39:44. > :39:47.us on a programme, then we would be happy to work with them. 25 seats

:39:47. > :39:51.and you need six or so from the Liberal Democrats, you could go it

:39:51. > :39:57.alone with them, the very party putting through these cuts in

:39:57. > :39:59.Westminster? The Liberal Democrats are not in a great place. Their

:39:59. > :40:03.fortunes may turn around, but at the moment they have five seats and

:40:03. > :40:11.the may have even fewer in the next Assembly elections and maybe the

:40:11. > :40:16.votes will come to us. Four years is an of long-time. Talking numbers

:40:16. > :40:21.at this stage is a bit premature. You would rather do it deal with

:40:21. > :40:29.the Liberal Democrats and Labour? would rather that we got in on our

:40:29. > :40:33.own. I am not necessarily saying that. At it would rather be in a

:40:33. > :40:36.Plaid Cymru government to maximise our programme. Whichever of those

:40:36. > :40:39.other two parties and perhaps we would have greens in the Assembly

:40:39. > :40:43.by that point, whichever of those parties would be prepared to come

:40:43. > :40:50.with us on our journey and with our programme, then I would be open to

:40:50. > :41:00.having discussions with them. Labour? Up why not? If they could

:41:00. > :41:02.

:41:02. > :41:08.come and much our level. What happened in the health debate

:41:08. > :41:13.before the end of term happened at the end of term. I think for the

:41:13. > :41:18.future now, we would be going forward in a different way. On that

:41:19. > :41:27.issue, he withdrew the whip and then you get that back? Was that a

:41:27. > :41:31.climbdown? What I was hoping to do was an outline of my expectations

:41:31. > :41:36.of what I thought we should do as a crook in the Assembly. This was

:41:36. > :41:42.going forward into the future. I made a statement in the summer

:41:42. > :41:48.outlining what I feel is an appropriate way for the Assembly

:41:48. > :41:51.members to behave and I hope now that that is clear for everybody

:41:51. > :42:00.and that we can go forward in a more positive manner than we did

:42:00. > :42:06.then. Let us move on to the economy because you have made it clear that

:42:06. > :42:13.he should take priority? This new Green Deal, no details yet, we know

:42:13. > :42:20.it is based on a result's plan up in the 1930s. How would it work

:42:20. > :42:24.here them? It would be different to that new deal. Thinking about

:42:24. > :42:33.building in the long term, what we need to be done to do that, to wean

:42:33. > :42:37.ourselves of our addiction to order. There are potentially thousands of

:42:37. > :42:41.jobs to be powered by renewable energy. And we really need to ramp

:42:41. > :42:45.up the amount of food we produce in Wales because the pressures that

:42:45. > :42:49.are coming down the line, particularly with the droughts

:42:49. > :42:55.associated with climate change could mean that we face that food

:42:55. > :43:00.shortages in the future. We have to plan for that eventuality. We know

:43:00. > :43:03.get it is only a matter of time before oil is unaffordable. What

:43:03. > :43:07.will we do when people are unable to travel distances because the

:43:08. > :43:11.price of oil is too high. We need alternatives and unless the plan

:43:11. > :43:17.for that now, we find ourselves in a sticky situation further down the

:43:17. > :43:24.line. That is why I am advocating planning now, creating jobs...

:43:24. > :43:29.jobs, on energy, people in Anglesey listening to, those people will be

:43:29. > :43:34.saying this is about energy, this is all about jobs, yet your message

:43:34. > :43:42.to them is? My message to them would be jobs in renewable energy,

:43:42. > :43:45.you can create more jobs in renewable energy... The amount of

:43:45. > :43:48.money that you are spending on creating those jobs, you could

:43:48. > :43:55.create more jobs in renewable energy, that is the argument that I

:43:55. > :43:59.would put in that case. We see the other parties, are planning laws in

:43:59. > :44:04.England now, they are rolling back from environmental restrictions,

:44:04. > :44:07.sending out the message that being green is a bit at the expense of in

:44:07. > :44:12.these times of that austerity. You are saying unleash the green agenda

:44:12. > :44:15.now, which potentially is very expensive isn't it to? It may be

:44:15. > :44:18.expensive, but I think it is a potentially less expensive than

:44:18. > :44:23.some of the alternatives and if you look at things other than just

:44:23. > :44:27.money, then it would be cheaper in the long run. Money is crucial now.

:44:27. > :44:33.If we are going to turn the economy round, we're talking about higher

:44:33. > :44:40.tax, in terms of income tax you wanted to be devolved.

:44:40. > :44:44.necessarily. I have set up an economic Commission headed by Adam

:44:44. > :44:49.Price and I will be looking to take advice from a commission about

:44:50. > :44:55.exactly what we would do. A you want that formula over, because you

:44:55. > :44:59.have said economically Wales must and on its own to have macro ft?

:44:59. > :45:05.are responsible for raising our own taxes, taxes would have to go

:45:05. > :45:15.through the roof! Given how few high earners are here, where is the

:45:15. > :45:19.

:45:19. > :45:22.Then maybe changes to income tax which could be made which would

:45:22. > :45:27.benefit more money coming into the coffers but there are other taxes

:45:27. > :45:31.we could be looking at. I think we need to be looking a bit wider than

:45:31. > :45:36.when we are looking at the moment. What about taxing pollution? That

:45:36. > :45:40.is something we could do. What about providing tax breaks for

:45:40. > :45:45.pension funds which are invested in Wales like they do in Canada? These

:45:45. > :45:49.are things which are not look that at the moment. Pension funds cannot

:45:49. > :45:55.say they are only going to invest in Welsh companies. There are

:45:55. > :45:59.things which can be done now and things like for example, there are

:45:59. > :46:03.two councils in England which are investing locally in pension funds.

:46:03. > :46:07.There are things which can be done but obviously, we need more powers

:46:07. > :46:14.and fiscal leaders at the Assembly and that is part of our agenda as

:46:14. > :46:19.well. A big message last night was by a local, spend that pound in

:46:19. > :46:25.your pocket locally. You are a busy mum, do you really think that when

:46:25. > :46:30.things are tight, that people can afford to buy locally? Presumably

:46:30. > :46:39.you shop in a supermarket. Occasionally. I try not to. I am

:46:39. > :46:43.not saying I boycott supermarkets. Is it cheaper? It can well be. A

:46:43. > :46:48.we'll try and buy things locally but the bill can be bigger whereas

:46:48. > :46:52.if you are popping in for one weekly shop, you know it is cheaper.

:46:52. > :46:56.If you are going for one weekly shop, you know what you're going to

:46:56. > :47:01.spend and you can see that price going up. The message I was trying

:47:01. > :47:08.to get across was if we can lock money into our communities, then we

:47:09. > :47:16.benefit in a wider group of people. We can save guard drops if we lock

:47:16. > :47:21.money into communities. So much of our money is leaving Wales. �6

:47:21. > :47:28.billion of public sector pension funds leave Wales completely. That

:47:28. > :47:33.is a situation that is crazy in the current sector. We need to bring

:47:33. > :47:38.money back to Wales and locket in to our communities so that we can

:47:38. > :47:44.create sustainable jobs where people are not going to up sticks

:47:44. > :47:51.and leave. The jobs can stay in the communities. You want to pull down

:47:51. > :47:56.the barriers, Wales be on its own and sink or swim there basically.

:47:56. > :48:03.It is not about pulling down the barriers. It is about doing more

:48:03. > :48:07.for ourselves, providing goods, primarily renewable energy and food

:48:07. > :48:12.for our home market. At the moment, we are at the end of the supply

:48:12. > :48:18.chain in terms of our food. When oil prices go up, we will find it

:48:19. > :48:23.very difficult. It is so much about the economy, the deficit, food

:48:23. > :48:27.production and basically, green energy is your green -- big thing.

:48:27. > :48:33.There was not much in your speech yesterday about independence. We

:48:34. > :48:37.all know you are for independence. Have you realised it is not a vote-

:48:37. > :48:40.winner because you have made it clear you want to speak to people

:48:40. > :48:47.beyond this conference and independence does not go down well

:48:47. > :48:51.beyond here? I have been clear what I stand for about independence and

:48:51. > :48:55.do I need to keep banging that drum? I would say, probably not.

:48:55. > :48:59.What people want to hear from Plaid Cymru is what we will do on today's

:48:59. > :49:03.problems now. That you have realised you cannot afford it as

:49:03. > :49:08.you said in the Guardian. economy is everything. At the

:49:08. > :49:12.moment, our economy is weak. When will Wales be able to afford

:49:12. > :49:17.independence? When our economy turns around. When we have got

:49:17. > :49:22.green jobs that will shop locally? We have had 20 years of economic

:49:22. > :49:26.decline and Wales, we have got to see that turned round. The priority

:49:26. > :49:31.for Plaid Cymru is economy and job creation and we're going to stick

:49:32. > :49:35.to that. If nothing about health in your speech, why? You cannot cover

:49:35. > :49:39.everything. Health is clearly an important issue and with the

:49:39. > :49:44.changes being proposed, it is an issue at the top of the political

:49:44. > :49:47.agenda. Education is another majorly important issue for people

:49:47. > :49:51.in Wales. Within a short period of time, there is only a limited

:49:51. > :49:57.number of things you can raise and I really did want to focus on the

:49:57. > :50:02.economy. OK, after the speech yesterday, you were whisked off to

:50:02. > :50:09.Cardiff Bay for the homecoming of the Team GB athletes. Way you proud

:50:09. > :50:14.of them? I was proud of the athletes, it was amazing. Team GB?

:50:14. > :50:20.Are I am a Welsh nationalist, I was supporting the Welsh athletes.

:50:20. > :50:26.could have boycotted it? Why would I want to do that? I met them and

:50:26. > :50:30.spoke to them. Some of them were local. Team Wales for the Olympics?

:50:30. > :50:33.We have got that for the Commonwealth Games. Let's look

:50:33. > :50:40.forward to the Commonwealth Games in 2014 where those athletes will

:50:40. > :50:47.be there in a Welsh comers -- colours, flying the flag. A will

:50:47. > :50:50.you be in Rio as First Minister? I am invited, it will be great.

:50:50. > :50:55.have overrun but thank you for joining us this afternoon.

:50:55. > :51:03.Let's go back to Tomos Livingstone outside. I am joined by Martin

:51:03. > :51:07.Shipton, chief reporter of the Western Mail. We heard Leanne Wood

:51:07. > :51:11.talking that her ambitions to be First Minister, to be in government

:51:11. > :51:18.after 2016, but how difficult will that be for her? It is nice to have

:51:18. > :51:23.ambitions but whether they will be realised is difficult. Plaid Cymru

:51:23. > :51:27.is in a difficult position because politics at a UK level is very

:51:27. > :51:31.polarised between the coalition government and the Labour Party. It

:51:31. > :51:37.is very difficult for Plaid Cymru to get a foothold in an to get

:51:37. > :51:41.their own ideas forward. The conditions under which Plaid Cymru

:51:41. > :51:45.would conceivably form an administration are difficult to

:51:45. > :51:49.envisage. I think you would probably have to have a Labour

:51:49. > :51:53.Party in power at Westminster when something very badly went wrong.

:51:54. > :51:57.The likelihood is the general election would be in 2015, the

:51:57. > :52:02.Welsh election would be a year later so things would have to very

:52:02. > :52:05.seriously unravel for a Labour government because at the moment,

:52:05. > :52:11.with a Conservative, Liberal Democrat coalition in power in

:52:11. > :52:15.Westminster, Labour in Wales is able to blame for essentially

:52:15. > :52:20.everything and all the ills of Wales on that administration in

:52:20. > :52:26.Westminster and they are reaping the electoral benefits as was

:52:26. > :52:31.demonstrated in the local council elections. Given Leanne Wood's idea

:52:31. > :52:36.in her speech to concentrate entirely on the economy, was it a

:52:36. > :52:40.gamble given the situation you have described? I think from Plaid

:52:40. > :52:45.Cymru's point of view, the only thing they can do at the moment is

:52:45. > :52:51.tried to move imaginative ideas to help the Welsh economy. The Welsh

:52:51. > :52:57.economy is in a difficult state. Wells -- Wales is the poorest of

:52:57. > :53:02.the nations within the UK. People are agreed that the total focus

:53:02. > :53:06.needs to be improving the economy of Wales. Therefore, I think it is

:53:06. > :53:11.natural but that should be the case. If Plaid Cymru were banging on

:53:11. > :53:16.about independence, a lot of people would see that as an irrelevancy. I

:53:16. > :53:23.think probably big decision to concentrate on the economy is right.

:53:23. > :53:29.There are no easy solutions. The problems are Wales has will take

:53:29. > :53:34.years to sort out. They need to have a long-term approach to it and

:53:34. > :53:38.this explains some of the ideas she came out within her speech, about

:53:38. > :53:43.possibly giving tax breaks to pension funds which will invest in

:53:43. > :53:46.the local economy. That is where the focus has to live. I think it

:53:46. > :53:50.has been clearly demonstrated that this conference that there is very

:53:50. > :53:54.little chance of Plaid Cymru going into government with Labour. We

:53:54. > :53:58.have to remember that Labour does not have an overall majority in the

:53:58. > :54:02.assembly at the moment. There has been continuing speculation that

:54:02. > :54:06.they may turn to another party. Before the election last year,

:54:06. > :54:10.Plaid Cymru was in coalition with Labour. That all ended but Labour

:54:10. > :54:14.does still not have a majority. It seems from the approach thick

:54:14. > :54:18.Leanne Wood is taking, she has ruled out any question of a

:54:19. > :54:23.coalition with Labour during this administration. Maarten, thank you.

:54:23. > :54:27.Some of the challenges facing Leanne Wood as they look to the

:54:27. > :54:33.2016 election. Back to Bethan. Thank you.

:54:33. > :54:38.Let's check what is going on inside the conference hall now. Back to

:54:38. > :54:44.our reporter. Thank you. They have started hearing now from the Plaid

:54:44. > :54:47.Cymru spokesman on health, that is the Ceredigion assembly member Elin

:54:47. > :54:55.Jones. She is talking about the provision of district hospitals.

:54:55. > :55:01.Let's hear what she has to say. TRANSLATION: These general

:55:01. > :55:08.hospitals are important as part of a wider network of provision of the

:55:08. > :55:14.NHS in Wales, provision which also includes regional centres which

:55:14. > :55:19.gives more specialist treatments and also clusters of communities,

:55:19. > :55:25.smaller hospitals which provide care for the elderly chiefly in our

:55:25. > :55:30.communities, and of course, there is the movement to reduce the

:55:30. > :55:36.dependency on hospital care by offering home care. But, as the

:55:36. > :55:41.chair said, the network of district general hospitals are being

:55:41. > :55:46.threatened. Plaid Cymru did warned before the 2011 election that

:55:46. > :55:56.Labour in government on their rent would return to centralise services.

:55:56. > :55:57.

:55:57. > :56:05.Labour, but First Minister Carwyn Jones accused Plaid Cymru of

:56:05. > :56:11.scaremongering and of lying. Well, we were proved correct. We were

:56:11. > :56:19.right. Those are the plans for centralising back now appear in all

:56:19. > :56:26.parts of Wales, to centralise health services and to downgrade

:56:26. > :56:36.general hospitals. We can see that in the West, the North and also the

:56:36. > :56:36.

:56:36. > :56:41.plans for the valleys. We have seen the downgrading of Neath hospital.

:56:41. > :56:48.The line of the Labour government is there is a medical need to

:56:48. > :56:53.centralise services, but more often than not, in my opinion, it is

:56:53. > :56:57.managerial conveniences which drive the changes and the medical opinion

:56:57. > :57:03.locally at the grassroots is very clear in favour of retaining

:57:03. > :57:12.services locally. I represent Aberystwyth and Ceredigion and

:57:12. > :57:15.there is a group, a campaigning group in Aberystwyth for several

:57:15. > :57:21.years. It is not Elin Jones the politician who runs this group in

:57:21. > :57:29.order to make political capital of a discussion of the future, it is

:57:29. > :57:36.the present staff from the hospital which run and formulate that group.

:57:36. > :57:42.And staff and former consultants in the area, it is not me, it is

:57:42. > :57:45.medical opinion that put forward the arguments. We must therefore

:57:45. > :57:49.see national planning for our health service. The danger at the

:57:49. > :57:57.moment is the health board plans services within their own

:57:57. > :58:04.territories without a national overview. We have a Health Minister

:58:04. > :58:10.who has given the local health boards carte blanche to do what

:58:10. > :58:14.they like and carry out those changes. We have a national health

:58:15. > :58:19.service and we need national planning with a local provision. We

:58:19. > :58:25.have a Health Minister who does not take the responsibility and is not

:58:25. > :58:28.democratically accountable for the decisions. She has transferred the

:58:28. > :58:33.responsibility to the non- accountable health boards. We saw

:58:33. > :58:39.national guidance for the health board and the One Wales Government,

:58:39. > :58:43.but under the Labour government we do not see that guidance or the

:58:43. > :58:48.accountability. So why would ask you to support the motion. I accept

:58:48. > :58:58.the amendments, to, and I look forward to hearing comments of

:58:58. > :59:14.

:59:14. > :59:19.conference on this important The way we move on to ask? Good

:59:19. > :59:25.afternoon. I want to congratulate her for putting this motion forward,

:59:25. > :59:31.it is very important. This is because we are battling it to

:59:31. > :59:39.maintain our local hospitals. The first point I would like to make is

:59:39. > :59:45.that we must remember two years ago, a commission was established and

:59:45. > :59:47.the report was released in the Elfyn Llwyd of last year. But many

:59:47. > :59:53.people to not remember the commission, but in that, there were

:59:53. > :59:57.an number of important things that come up. First of all, the

:59:57. > :00:03.commission said that it was important that health be provided

:00:03. > :00:09.locally, as locally as possible to patients. The second point was that

:00:09. > :00:13.this should be part of the consideration across all levels of

:00:13. > :00:18.political decision in the government. As the government

:00:18. > :00:23.proceeded to make decisions on transport, that health should be

:00:23. > :00:30.part of a consideration as well and what we see is that inconsistency

:00:30. > :00:36.at the moment. This is because of a Labour government marketing down

:00:36. > :00:42.our public transport services, in Denbighshire, they have cut down

:00:42. > :00:46.across the county, buses that are also go from west Wales over to

:00:46. > :00:51.Wrexham and at the same time, they concentrate health services in

:00:51. > :01:00.Wrexham that makes it more difficult for patience in west

:01:00. > :01:08.direction to go to someone else. They ignored the commission, which

:01:08. > :01:15.give it clear deadlines because of about �12,000. We must make the

:01:15. > :01:21.government accountable to live up to what the commission and demanded

:01:21. > :01:27.and if you ask, if it was mentioned earlier about consultants, who were

:01:27. > :01:37.in favour, they were going to use consultants as a front to perform

:01:37. > :01:39.

:01:39. > :01:46.these changes. Figure going to -- local surgeries have said no, this

:01:46. > :01:50.will not help patients. The main reason is that Wrexham Hospital is

:01:50. > :01:55.already full of people having to wait in hospitals, bed blocking is

:01:55. > :01:59.going on, as they shut down the beds elsewhere, that will only be a

:01:59. > :02:05.knock-on effect in Wrexham. It is not going to benefit anybody,

:02:05. > :02:09.particularly for those elderly people who use the local hospital

:02:09. > :02:16.and want to be with their families close to them. The one last thing a

:02:16. > :02:23.would like to say his throughout the discussion, you're quite right

:02:23. > :02:27.in saying that Les Lee Griffiths is using the local health boards, let

:02:27. > :02:32.us bear in mind that it was a Labour government decision and why

:02:32. > :02:39.we are fighting it to retain the local hospitals, we of course

:02:39. > :02:42.criticise the decisions of the local health boards, but let us

:02:42. > :02:46.turned that back on the Labour government, because it was they who

:02:46. > :02:50.have the responsibility, they are guilty of this, not the health

:02:50. > :02:56.boards, they just carry out the political decision that has come

:02:56. > :02:59.from every Labour government. So let us end up our attempts to save

:02:59. > :03:08.the hospitals remember who is making these decisions, it is

:03:08. > :03:14.Labour, not just the health boards. Thank you. We will leave that

:03:14. > :03:18.debate on the district hospitals. I will have a quick word with the

:03:18. > :03:26.party's treasury spokesperson, Jonathan Edwards. Thank you for

:03:26. > :03:32.coming to see us. Is your priority clearly in this conference on the

:03:32. > :03:38.economy? How would you deal with it? We are having a debate about

:03:38. > :03:42.the commission at the moment, first phase of reporting. This is about

:03:42. > :03:46.devolving more powers? That is definitely part of the solution

:03:46. > :03:50.because without these jobs creations, it will be difficult to

:03:50. > :03:55.sort the economy out. I thought the speech yesterday was hugely

:03:55. > :04:00.significant, focusing not entirely on the economy and creating jobs,

:04:00. > :04:05.and as a result of the problems we face in our constituencies...

:04:05. > :04:10.you going to create the jobs? was a number of key policy

:04:10. > :04:14.initiatives that were announced yesterday. We're one year into the

:04:15. > :04:19.new Assembly, we're early in the cycle and there have already been

:04:19. > :04:23.major announcements yesterday. There was the economic Commission

:04:23. > :04:26.which has led by Adam Price they have already done an interim report,

:04:26. > :04:33.highlighting the major issues we face and the recommendations of

:04:33. > :04:37.those that we face, the Green Deal we are looking at our strengths,

:04:37. > :04:42.and next week we are looking at recycling material and all that

:04:42. > :04:46.sort of work. Very exciting developments. Youth unemployment is

:04:46. > :04:50.rocketing in Wales. Going green and getting people recycling and

:04:50. > :04:58.getting all these jobs in green energy renewables, is that really

:04:58. > :05:02.the answer? That has a part of the policies put forward yesterday.

:05:02. > :05:05.Another one is an investment infrastructure fund to invest in

:05:05. > :05:09.infrastructure and I will give you an example. In the House of Commons

:05:09. > :05:13.on Monday there is a Bill going through the cupboards of �50

:05:13. > :05:17.billion worth of guarantees for the UK government departments to spend

:05:17. > :05:21.in terms of investment. The Welsh government should get about �2.5

:05:21. > :05:24.billion for that. How are they going to draw on our money because

:05:24. > :05:27.they have not got an investment arm ready to draw on that. Wales is

:05:27. > :05:31.losing out because the Labour government does not have an answer

:05:31. > :05:35.for these opportunities. In terms of the Green Deal comic you're

:05:35. > :05:40.talking about creating a power house and creating jobs. You're

:05:40. > :05:46.talking about the investment arm, that is spending. What about the

:05:46. > :05:50.deficit? Where are you raining in in the spending? This comes in as

:05:50. > :05:53.part of the Commission report, we are looking at job creation and it

:05:53. > :05:57.comes together with borrowing powers which is essential for any

:05:57. > :06:05.government. You borrow to invest. Every government in the World

:06:05. > :06:09.borrows to invest and a descent -- it is essential we get those powers.

:06:09. > :06:16.Where is the sense of looking at the big black hole and we have to

:06:16. > :06:23.do our bit? It is all about spending isn't it? Micras it is the

:06:23. > :06:33.- amid criticism of the UK government's policy on austerity.

:06:33. > :06:38.

:06:38. > :06:43.If you are not generating revenues, you are not generating growth. A

:06:43. > :06:48.you would not rain it back at all? The Conservative coalition with the

:06:48. > :06:52.Liberal Democrats are going for a austerity measures, they are

:06:52. > :07:00.austerity light as you Collet? There would be no austerity, is

:07:00. > :07:04.that what you're saying? Unita be generating growth in the economy,

:07:04. > :07:08.if you are not doing that, at the deficit is increasing and the debt

:07:08. > :07:11.levels are increasing and the revenues are up dropping. That is

:07:11. > :07:17.exactly what is happening now and what would have happened under

:07:18. > :07:23.Labour. Ed Balls said that even a Labour's plans were over-ambitious

:07:23. > :07:29.and I tend to agree with that. us look at taxation, what taxes to

:07:29. > :07:38.you want devolved? To report put forward and detailed submission

:07:38. > :07:45.including the array of taxation... Would income tax have to go up?

:07:45. > :07:50.is a decision for the government of Wales. Would it go up? And the key

:07:50. > :07:55.point of having those powers is that it focuses the Welsh

:07:55. > :07:59.government and the wants to fund the public service on revenue

:07:59. > :08:08.generation. At the moment the Welsh government gets a block, are the

:08:08. > :08:13.equivalent of a child getting pocket money. It is handy though?

:08:13. > :08:17.Senior Labour MP argued last week that he wanted to keep the can

:08:17. > :08:21.system because they do not want to face grown-up politics. We are not

:08:21. > :08:24.content with Wales and been at the bottom of these poverty leads and

:08:24. > :08:31.we need to assume responsibility for ourselves and start working to

:08:31. > :08:40.our strengths. We do not need any handouts are grants from London, we

:08:40. > :08:46.stand on her own two feet, had we run our affairs? This is sure I do

:08:46. > :08:50.and people want to know about it? How were we stand on her own two

:08:51. > :08:56.feet economically? If you get those powers you would be generating more

:08:56. > :09:00.wealth and it would increase your revenue. How would you do that?

:09:00. > :09:08.alternative is a culture of dependency and a continuing

:09:08. > :09:12.downward spiral. You say spend, create the jobs, the wealth comes,

:09:12. > :09:20.you would spend where? And a member of the economic Commission and we

:09:20. > :09:25.are beginning our work. I cannot prejudge the likely recommendations.

:09:25. > :09:29.This is as long as a Plaid Cymru has been alive and this has been

:09:29. > :09:34.the key ideal and still however many books we read, we do not know

:09:34. > :09:37.how and independent Wales would be finance? We are in a different

:09:37. > :09:43.place to Scotland. We have to react to that and the reality is the

:09:43. > :09:48.Scottish government who are going to get powers, and the Northern

:09:48. > :09:53.Ireland government is going to get corporation tax devolved, we need

:09:53. > :09:56.to look at that. Let us come back to the Commission and the

:09:56. > :10:02.possibility that these taxes will perhaps eventually be devolved,

:10:02. > :10:06.would that be enough for a few years, a few decades? How fast is

:10:06. > :10:11.his journey progressing? We are relaxed about it. Plaid Cymru has

:10:11. > :10:17.been incredibly successful in terms of achieving some of our objectives

:10:17. > :10:21.over recent decades, the referendum was a major step forward for us. We

:10:21. > :10:30.are clearly now focusing our energies on the economy, there is a

:10:30. > :10:35.crisis in a consensus. What we are saying today is that we need the

:10:35. > :10:39.powers of job-creation it to create a different vision for the economy.

:10:39. > :10:46.I think she is doing exceptionally well. She has made her mark on the

:10:46. > :10:53.party. There has been a huge amount of work on the ground, behind the

:10:53. > :10:56.scenes, it is never very easy for a new leader. You get judged on the

:10:56. > :10:59.first 100 days in modern politics and you end up the leader for the

:10:59. > :11:06.best part of the decade. Already we have seen that the party has moved

:11:06. > :11:09.on, got behind Lianne and she is a very radical politician. She is

:11:09. > :11:12.based on strong political principles and she has resumed the

:11:12. > :11:17.debate and she is realigning politics in Wales. We are living in

:11:17. > :11:23.exciting times. She will be First Minister in 2016? That is her aim,

:11:23. > :11:28.she told us that this afternoon? That is our ambition. We will be

:11:28. > :11:38.working flat out on everything we have got to make sure that happens.

:11:38. > :11:40.

:11:40. > :11:48.Thank you. Let us go back to the keynote speech this afternoon at

:11:48. > :11:52.the and that was by a Elfyn Llwyd. Last year was definitely a busy

:11:52. > :11:56.year for the West Minister team, but I think we should mention some

:11:56. > :12:06.successes along the way. With regards to our team in Westminster,

:12:06. > :12:07.

:12:07. > :12:12.I am extremely grateful to my friends are, their loyalty a second

:12:12. > :12:18.to none and all was a constant readiness to go the extra mile. He

:12:18. > :12:23.is a very active member of the Science and Technology Select

:12:23. > :12:28.Committee and Jonathan is a member of the Welsh Select Committee. I do

:12:28. > :12:33.my part on the Justice Select Committee, however and none of us

:12:33. > :12:39.or would be able to achieve anything without our hard-working

:12:39. > :12:49.parliamentary staff and I wish to thank them offer all the work that

:12:49. > :12:52.

:12:52. > :12:56.they do for us. The Queen's Speech in a implemented several long-

:12:56. > :13:01.standing Plaid Cymru policies, least they were referred to there.

:13:01. > :13:06.One example, the introduction of the groceries ombudsman and also

:13:06. > :13:12.legislation to reform and the banking sector. Our team's

:13:12. > :13:16.criticism of the UK's government policies has been firm, has been

:13:16. > :13:20.consistent and if you will allow the punt, always on the money. We

:13:20. > :13:24.have continued to hold the UK government to account on the

:13:24. > :13:32.devastating proposals to introduce regional pay and of course, the

:13:32. > :13:39.need for or a consequential to the proposed �33 billion investment on

:13:39. > :13:45.high speed at two in England. It is worth �1.9 billion to Wales -- HS2

:13:45. > :13:50.project. Down the corridor or, if I can put it that way, he has been an

:13:50. > :13:54.invaluable help to us, covering a huge amount of legislation in the

:13:54. > :14:00.house of Lords. Together, we have renewed calls for the devolution of

:14:00. > :14:05.further powers to Wales through the next stage of the Silk Commission.

:14:05. > :14:09.Moreover, I do believe that we continue to set the standard of how

:14:09. > :14:14.a minority party can punch above its weight in the corridors of

:14:14. > :14:18.Westminster. We are in fact the only parliamentary party there with

:14:18. > :14:24.the 100 and -- are 100% membership of select committees and to that

:14:24. > :14:30.extent we are unique. We are probably unique as well be in that

:14:30. > :14:33.we're all bilingual, but that is another story! A clear example of

:14:33. > :14:38.this was the cross-party overstocking inquiry which I was

:14:38. > :14:42.privileged to chair over the past 12 months. We published our report

:14:42. > :14:48.in February, calling on the UK government to bring in a specific

:14:48. > :14:53.offence of stalking and to improve the training of professionals,

:14:53. > :14:58.prosecutors, the police, social workers, probation officers. Also

:14:58. > :15:02.the judiciary of course. The Government did something, but

:15:02. > :15:06.government did something which hardly ever happens, it listened.

:15:06. > :15:12.The Prime Minister announced that the government would implement our

:15:12. > :15:17.chief recommendations and believe it or not friends, good in 11 days,

:15:17. > :15:27.government's legislation based on a our draft Bill was passed by both

:15:27. > :15:31.

:15:31. > :15:35.So as of November this year, stalking will be a named offence

:15:35. > :15:40.and the training for criminal justice professionals will be far

:15:40. > :15:46.more stringent, and as a result, it will save dozens of lives and it

:15:46. > :15:52.will release many, many people from the utter hell of being stalked. It

:15:52. > :15:56.was, I think, exceptional, of course. And it was also pioneering,

:15:56. > :16:03.in that this was the first Independent parliamentary inquiry

:16:03. > :16:09.of its kind to succeed. The BBC's parliamentary correspondent Mark

:16:09. > :16:13.Darcy commented and I quote: Law- making is seldom this rapid.

:16:13. > :16:18.I am certain that the fact that this inquiry was inclusive of all

:16:18. > :16:23.parties and led by a minority party of Westminster played a major part

:16:23. > :16:27.in its success. If only the government will always that co-

:16:27. > :16:31.operative. Unfortunately, as you know and I know, that is far from

:16:31. > :16:35.being the case. There are a certain number of challenges that we must

:16:35. > :16:41.face as a group in the coming parliamentary term. Some have

:16:41. > :16:47.become even more evident over the past fortnight. We are all familiar

:16:47. > :16:52.with the recent history of S4C. The Channel's funding was slashed by

:16:52. > :16:57.Jeremy Hunt and be parcelled as part of the BBC's funding licence

:16:57. > :17:02.stream and the outcry that is rightly cause. History must not be

:17:02. > :17:07.allowed to repeat itself under the new Kelt -- culture secretary. Our

:17:07. > :17:14.group will do all in its powers to make this loud and clear to the

:17:14. > :17:19.people at the DEC MS. In fact, the removal of Mr Hunt from that brief

:17:19. > :17:24.was one of the few consolations to be taken from the Cabinet reshuffle.

:17:24. > :17:31.It makes you even more appreciative of devolution, to think that in

:17:31. > :17:35.health at least, Wales is out of Hunt's grasp. Looking to his

:17:35. > :17:39.successor, I do not hold my breath that it will be better under her

:17:39. > :17:44.either. I can only lead to the conclusion that the sooner media

:17:44. > :17:50.powers are devolved to the government -- the Welsh government,

:17:50. > :17:55.the better. We also bid farewell to Cheryl Gillan MP, whose tenure as

:17:55. > :18:02.Welsh Secretary, one could fairly be described as uneventful. We

:18:02. > :18:06.welcome in her place, Mr David Jones, a boy from Wales, who

:18:06. > :18:12.claimed not to speak a word of Welsh when he stood for the Tories

:18:13. > :18:19.in Chester. Now, he has discovered that he does in fact speak Welsh.

:18:19. > :18:23.It puts me in mind of a remark made by the late Roy Jenkins MP, a

:18:23. > :18:27.valley boy. A couple of blokes were walking down the street and one

:18:27. > :18:32.said to the other, I hear the Jenkins boy has just got into the

:18:33. > :18:39.cabinet. Yes, so I hear, he has got into the Cabinet. They say, you

:18:39. > :18:45.know, one of them said that he is pretty lazy. The other said no, he

:18:45. > :18:48.cannot be lazy. If he comes from here to develop that cut-glass

:18:48. > :18:54.accent. Jokes aside, Lehane has already

:18:54. > :19:01.made clear, the onus is now on the Secretary of State to prove that

:19:01. > :19:07.the Welsh MP can have a positive impact at the UK cabinet table.

:19:07. > :19:11.Time will tell. There were, I think, some surprises from this reshuffle.

:19:11. > :19:15.The appointment of Chris Grayling as Secretary of State for Justice,

:19:15. > :19:22.for example, only strengthens the need for criminal justice to be

:19:22. > :19:25.devolved to the Welsh government. The Labour Party deny this lead. --

:19:26. > :19:31.this need. There would obviously prefer Mr grayling to be in charge

:19:31. > :19:35.of our justice system. Let's see what we know about this man. Mr

:19:35. > :19:40.grayling is something of an unknown quantity in the justice field, to

:19:40. > :19:46.put it mildly. In fact, he is the first non-lawyer to be appointed to

:19:46. > :19:52.the post since the 16th century. Political hacks are quick to point

:19:52. > :19:57.out that he was not Cameron's first choice for Justice Secretary. He

:19:57. > :20:04.had first asked Iain Duncan Smith to take on the role and he refused.

:20:04. > :20:09.I am afraid that Grayling will speed up the privatisation of the

:20:09. > :20:13.prison state and youth justice, a catastrophe waiting to happen, if

:20:13. > :20:19.the mess surrounding G4S before the Olympics was anything to go by. He

:20:19. > :20:24.told the Daily Mail in 2009, I am advocating a hardline approach.

:20:24. > :20:29.Hardcore thugs must go to jail, not be let off. Superficially, we would

:20:29. > :20:34.all agree with that, I think. But comments like that hardly engender

:20:34. > :20:38.confidence that Mr Grayling will be looking to appreciate the nuances

:20:38. > :20:43.of troubled families, the need to tackle the causes of crime. Who

:20:43. > :20:48.said that first? And the magnitude of focusing resources on

:20:49. > :20:55.rehabilitation, rather than packing yet more prisoners into the present

:20:55. > :20:59.state at a huge cost to every tax payer. Because Ken Clarke has shown

:20:59. > :21:04.support for these initiatives, as Frances Cook director of the Howard

:21:04. > :21:11.League for Penal Reform pointed out in a recent block, there are too

:21:11. > :21:14.few are people in prison today than a year ago. Two it than a year ago,

:21:14. > :21:19.number which might sound insignificant until you realise

:21:19. > :21:26.that until a few years ago, even keeping geese population stagnant

:21:26. > :21:30.was unthinkable. -- keeping the population stagnant was unthinkable.

:21:30. > :21:34.Under Ken Clarke, real progress had been made to reduce the number of

:21:34. > :21:40.children in prison and in doing, he did save money since each prison

:21:40. > :21:45.place cost �40,000 a year and I believe that he has saved some

:21:45. > :21:50.lives. But I sincerely hope that Grayling will come to see the

:21:50. > :21:58.merits of this sensible approach. Don't be too alarmed. As a

:21:58. > :22:06.fisherman, I am quite used to having grayling in my sights.

:22:06. > :22:14.LAUGHTER. Thank you. As I said, the changes being wrought by Cameron in

:22:14. > :22:24.London add more weight to the bike ride to be devolved, a cause which

:22:24. > :22:26.

:22:27. > :22:31.#ColourGreen Has been making for -- a cause which Plaid Cymru has

:22:31. > :22:37.been making for many years. In June this year I gave evidence to the

:22:37. > :22:42.Welsh government's constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee

:22:42. > :22:48.into the establishment of eight separate Welsh jurisdiction chaired

:22:48. > :22:53.by David Melding a M. In May, I spoke on the same topic during a

:22:53. > :22:59.meeting of the Welsh lawyers Association in London. I do say,

:22:59. > :23:04.momentum is certainly gathering in this campaign. As our means of law-

:23:04. > :23:08.making develops, as the Senedd grows in confidence, it stands to

:23:08. > :23:12.reason that the structure of our justice system should develop to

:23:12. > :23:18.encase it. It is remarkable to consider that Wales is the only

:23:18. > :23:22.country in the world that has a legislature but no legal

:23:22. > :23:28.jurisdiction of its own. Will work and put that right and I believe

:23:28. > :23:33.that we will get a resounding result in the coming months, couple

:23:33. > :23:38.of years possibly, but I think the momentum is with us and we need to

:23:38. > :23:42.work harder and further on this particular subject but it is coming.

:23:42. > :23:47.The yes campaign result in 2011 show that the majority of Welsh

:23:47. > :23:53.voters believe that Cardiff and a Westminster should be the home of

:23:53. > :23:58.decisions which affect their daily lives. So what quality should a

:23:58. > :24:02.state possess in order to establish its own legal jurisdiction? The

:24:02. > :24:08.criteria usually employed is that the jurisdiction should operate in

:24:08. > :24:13.a defined territory. That clear in this case. That the jurisdiction

:24:13. > :24:18.should have a distinct body of law, again, that is clear in this case.

:24:18. > :24:22.That it should be supported by its own court structure and legal

:24:22. > :24:28.institutions. They are there, all we need to do is change the name

:24:28. > :24:35.plates. In a sense, Wales already has its own jurisdiction. Since

:24:35. > :24:40.laws passed by the National Assembly pertain only to Wales.

:24:40. > :24:44.Lawyers who practise environmental, criminal, family and administrative

:24:45. > :24:49.law must have a thorough knowledge of the corpus of Welsh law, if they

:24:49. > :24:56.are indeed to practise in Wales. Although criminal law has yet to be

:24:56. > :25:02.devolved, any new Act passed by the assembly, may contain a new or

:25:02. > :25:06.amended criminal offence, peculiar or particular to Wales. A separate

:25:06. > :25:15.court structure to support this budding jurisdiction would

:25:15. > :25:22.undoubtedly facilitate the process. That was so the keynote speech

:25:22. > :25:32.earlier this afternoon. We can have a word with the chair of the party,

:25:32. > :25:35.

:25:35. > :25:40.and Mary Jones. Let's just pick up the point are about devolution.

:25:40. > :25:47.think it is crucial as the engenders in the UK diverge as

:25:47. > :25:50.elfin was saying in his speech but he is also talking about a legal

:25:50. > :25:54.jurisdictions so that laws passed a Wales can be dealt with by courts

:25:55. > :26:00.to understand that those laws are distinct. We have professionals

:26:00. > :26:03.calling for devolution and we have lawyers calling for a distinct

:26:04. > :26:08.judicial system for Wales because they understand that let's say the

:26:08. > :26:11.laws around something crucial at continuing care and who is entitled

:26:11. > :26:15.to have their care paid for by the state I different in Wales now than

:26:15. > :26:20.they are in England are also when you have found his consulting

:26:20. > :26:24.solicitors in England, they are giving inaccurate advice, entirely

:26:24. > :26:29.understandably. There has never been a parliament anywhere in the

:26:29. > :26:34.world which does not have its own judicial system. This is inevitable,

:26:34. > :26:38.it is question of when. That would be another step down the road of

:26:38. > :26:43.devolution. You want independence in the end of the party, does it

:26:43. > :26:48.get frustrating that you have this battle at every step? No, because

:26:48. > :26:52.it is a process. It is something which needs us to evolve because we

:26:52. > :26:58.need to take the people of Wales with us. It is a journey. Some

:26:58. > :27:03.people might want to come all the weight independence, others might

:27:03. > :27:08.decide it is a certain distance. That is what MPs say, come on a

:27:08. > :27:13.journey. It is up to us to articulate people what independence

:27:13. > :27:20.will look like and feel like for people's Real lives. That is the

:27:20. > :27:24.task we have. Which is why as a party, independence was not there

:27:24. > :27:27.in the speech yesterday. Independence was there in the

:27:27. > :27:31.background but what Leanne Wood was saying clearly in her speech and it

:27:31. > :27:35.makes an awful lot of sense to me and everyone here, we know that

:27:35. > :27:41.people do not have that confidence at the moment. We know they are

:27:41. > :27:45.fearful. People are saying to vote Labour to keep the Tories out.

:27:45. > :27:52.is misleading, isn't it? I don't think there was any question about

:27:52. > :27:56.misleading. In Leanne's leadership campaign, independence was central.

:27:56. > :28:00.That is why she got support. We know when you are poor and

:28:00. > :28:04.unemployed and you cannot put shoes on a children's feet, you're not

:28:04. > :28:09.thinking about the future of your nation. What Leanne was saying you

:28:09. > :28:13.have to build the economy. But an independent Wales, could people be

:28:13. > :28:19.guaranteed more money? People could meet making those decisions for

:28:19. > :28:23.themselves. Let's take a small country like Iceland which suffered

:28:23. > :28:28.terribly in the crash and look at where they are now, with 4%

:28:28. > :28:32.unemployment, with people's mortgages paid off, with the

:28:32. > :28:37.bankers who committed crimes in prison, if Iceland can do it, Wales

:28:37. > :28:42.can do it. We have more in the way of natural resources and we have to

:28:42. > :28:46.build on that and use the resources for our people and knock profits

:28:46. > :28:50.for multinational companies. If you are going to drive this, you have

:28:50. > :28:56.got to have new supporters, not the people here and it is not full here

:28:56. > :29:01.this time, is it? Are you disappointed? No, I think everybody

:29:01. > :29:06.felt it would be different this time. It happens. Conferences come

:29:06. > :29:09.and go. You have good ones and ones which are not so good. I think

:29:09. > :29:13.people realise this is the beginning of a journey. Says some

:29:13. > :29:18.have kept away to see where it is going? We are setting the direction

:29:18. > :29:23.of travel and people want to hear as they have done, where the

:29:23. > :29:26.priority will be. She has made that clear. I fully support that. I

:29:26. > :29:31.think people will warm to the message. If people think about

:29:31. > :29:36.Plaid Cymru, they think about independence. But it is about more

:29:36. > :29:44.than that. It is independence with a purpose. It is not a panacea

:29:44. > :29:49.where everything will be a Utopia. Let's just explore that, maybe in

:29:49. > :29:54.the past, you have been seeing independence as a panacea? It is a

:29:54. > :30:04.danger for members. They see it as a girl. A but there are down sides?

:30:04. > :30:08.Of course. What would be the down sides of independence? There will

:30:08. > :30:13.be ups and downs on all journeys. If you look at all countries across

:30:13. > :30:19.the world, there are recessions and boom times. But Wales would

:30:19. > :30:24.flourish you say. If you have economic levers we would be in

:30:24. > :30:29.control of our own destiny. That is the crucial thing. In an

:30:29. > :30:34.independent Wales, the people would be decided and there are risks in

:30:34. > :30:39.any political situation but the self governing Wales would be able

:30:39. > :30:43.to make the decisions ourselves. What we do know is our economy, we

:30:43. > :30:47.could go back 700 years, but in the last 150 years, our economy has

:30:47. > :30:52.been running this country for the benefit of the south and east of

:30:52. > :30:59.England. That is why the banking crash hit a so hard. Iceland,

:30:59. > :31:04.Norway and other countries have not been able to escape. But we would

:31:04. > :31:14.be in Rocky Waters wherever the Barnett Formula is set, at least it

:31:14. > :31:16.

:31:16. > :31:20.There is not anyone who would argue that the Barnet formula is fair. If

:31:20. > :31:24.we were self-governing, we would be able to make our own decisions and

:31:24. > :31:28.created the wealth. We need to create the wealth in order to

:31:28. > :31:33.create a fairer society. It is not just independence for its own sake,

:31:33. > :31:38.it is about independence for what we can do with those powers to make

:31:38. > :31:42.people's lives better, to build a fairer country and to protect our

:31:42. > :31:48.language and culture and natural environment. We cannot do that when

:31:48. > :31:51.the final decisions about too many things are made 150 miles away.

:31:51. > :31:57.Back to the conference. You suggested it was not one of the

:31:58. > :32:02.best in terms of attendance. A membership is up however. It is

:32:02. > :32:06.their choice. Geographically, it may be challenging for people.

:32:06. > :32:13.There we are. We represent all of Wales so it is important the go to

:32:13. > :32:20.different parts of the country. is all right to pay your sons, is

:32:20. > :32:24.that all you want? Campaign is about how you engage with members.

:32:24. > :32:29.Everyone has something they can contribute. We have not had the

:32:29. > :32:33.biggest numbers here, but the conference hall was packed for only

:32:34. > :32:38.an's speech. The membership has gone up by 25% since the beginning

:32:38. > :32:44.of the leadership campaign. I do not think her politics is about

:32:44. > :32:50.sitting in halls, it is about being out in communities and working.

:32:50. > :32:55.that the future? It is one way. We have had lots of references to be

:32:55. > :32:59.needed to engage younger people. We need to knock doors, delivered

:32:59. > :33:06.leaflets and put out press releases. New media can be engaging and we

:33:06. > :33:09.need to be savvy about how we use it. I am useless, but I am trying!

:33:09. > :33:18.The generation of young people in the party know exactly how to use

:33:18. > :33:22.it. Were you surprised there was no mention of Health yesterday? No. As

:33:22. > :33:25.is happening this afternoon, you will have noticed that the themes

:33:25. > :33:30.that have not been explored at great length, there was no talk

:33:30. > :33:38.about education, we have had numerous motions today.

:33:38. > :33:43.speeches have been poured over. Leanne Wood made a conscious choice

:33:43. > :33:49.to focus on the economy. In the end, our public services are dependent

:33:49. > :33:52.on the economy. If people are not in work, you cannot afford to have

:33:52. > :33:56.the health service you need and the education service you need. We have

:33:56. > :34:02.been discussing that at length, but she was focusing on the need to

:34:02. > :34:08.build the wealth that enables us to deliver services. Let us talk about

:34:08. > :34:13.education and the GCSE row. The remark King is helping to -- is

:34:13. > :34:17.happening this weekend. You are backing a Leighton Andrews on the

:34:17. > :34:21.marking the GCSEs? That is his decision. The UK ministers should

:34:21. > :34:27.not be interfering. There are questions to be asked about this.

:34:27. > :34:30.That is something we will be racing in the Assembly. This is about the

:34:30. > :34:35.fact that Leighton Andrews is also the regulator. You want that

:34:35. > :34:38.change? You have to hear what the Minister asked to say because the

:34:38. > :34:44.situation as it transpired should never have happened and I think it

:34:44. > :34:50.is right it is being addressed. We forget the effect of this is having

:34:50. > :34:54.on the pupils. My daughter sat GCSE English. We have supported what

:34:54. > :34:59.Leighton Andrews did, but of call in England is saying that the Welsh

:34:59. > :35:04.government as the regulator agreed to the changed. We do not know if

:35:04. > :35:07.that is right. I am glad that our Assembly members has asked for the

:35:07. > :35:12.committee to come back early to find out if that the English

:35:12. > :35:16.regulator is telling the truth. Did our government agreed to Les? I

:35:16. > :35:19.think we need some transparency and I think it is very unsettling. I

:35:19. > :35:24.know young people who fail to get onto their apprenticeships, fail to

:35:24. > :35:28.get into the sixth form colleges they wanted to go into, those

:35:28. > :35:32.grades can be like changing and I think the Minister does have to

:35:32. > :35:39.answer did his civil servants do some kind of deal with the English

:35:39. > :35:49.regulator? If he did no, we need to know why a. Let us go back outside

:35:49. > :35:50.

:35:50. > :35:57.now. The sun has come out and I am joined by at councillor and a party

:35:57. > :36:01.activist from Swansea. You know a bit about it trying to win votes in

:36:01. > :36:06.areas that are not considered your hard man. What have you heard this

:36:06. > :36:10.weekend that will make your task easier? A bit of positivity. We

:36:10. > :36:13.have talked about the economy and issues close to people's hearts.

:36:13. > :36:17.People are feeling the pain of the cuts from Westminster and feeling

:36:17. > :36:23.the way that the Labour government are not doing a lot about it. We

:36:23. > :36:26.have heard how we will tackle that. What we will do to improve the

:36:26. > :36:30.economy in Wales, looking at procurement policy, how we are

:36:30. > :36:35.looking at getting jobs are to local companies and different

:36:35. > :36:44.sectors. We will ask you a similar question. What did you make of the

:36:44. > :36:49.speech? I thought it was an awesome speed. I thought she came across as

:36:49. > :36:55.related will and that is important. A lot of the stuff that she was

:36:55. > :36:59.saying it rang true, especially all that Cup some biting, like the

:36:59. > :37:04.welfare reform and that's the thing. You need ideas that are going to

:37:04. > :37:08.resonate with normal people, people who are struggling and I think it

:37:08. > :37:13.really did that. What sort of mood did you think of the party

:37:13. > :37:17.activists are in as this conference draws to a close? I think it is

:37:17. > :37:22.very positive. We all have a renewed sense of what we are about

:37:22. > :37:29.as a party. We are left of centre a me want to make sure everyone gets

:37:29. > :37:36.what they need. Also the grass roots staff. He if you are involved

:37:36. > :37:40.in the party, it is about to getting everyone involved, every

:37:40. > :37:46.activist at every level. Helping out in the community, so I am very

:37:47. > :37:51.happy. How would you sum up the mood? I think there is a sense of

:37:51. > :37:56.purpose and aspiration. What Plaid Cymru is about is a better Wales.

:37:56. > :37:59.We are setting out the steps to achieve that. That is the message

:37:59. > :38:04.and the purpose for the next few years is to go back to our

:38:04. > :38:10.community, work hard with people to make sure that the successes of

:38:10. > :38:15.Westminster are curved and to build for the future. Thank you both very

:38:15. > :38:21.much. They are quite happy with the way things have gone. We will head

:38:21. > :38:27.back to the studio now. It is getting a bit cloudier out there

:38:27. > :38:30.now. Let us go into the hall. There have been a cure discussions about

:38:30. > :38:38.reforming the health service in Wales but now we have moved on to a

:38:38. > :38:48.panel discussion about the new direction for the United Kingdom.

:38:48. > :38:56.

:38:56. > :39:01.Let us have a lesson. -- listener. If we look at the structure, the

:39:01. > :39:09.constitutional structure, as it grows, there is always been a

:39:09. > :39:16.different organisation for administering Wales. There is an

:39:17. > :39:25.element that has differential, not just a difference in language, but

:39:25. > :39:33.the difference in terms of the location of people, but also from

:39:33. > :39:37.the days when the term was used for the people and the people he lived

:39:37. > :39:42.in that location has been treated in a different way. Therefore, to

:39:42. > :39:49.answer your question, more gently, know. I do not think there ever was

:39:49. > :39:53.a union, I never used Britain in that sense as a historical word and

:39:53. > :40:02.a very complex word. It goes through different periods of

:40:03. > :40:12.meaning different things. For me, Unionism he is something to aim for

:40:13. > :40:16.

:40:16. > :40:25.her. United Nations, united Europe, Manchester United's. It is usually

:40:25. > :40:33.not democratic indeed! And think you are right to say it would be

:40:33. > :40:39.unwise to say that definitely we know what the apps low results of

:40:39. > :40:46.devolution are. In thinking of these questions, I was poring over

:40:46. > :40:51.this book and has called the end of Britishness and in reading it,

:40:51. > :40:55.where he talks about the psychological violence, one can see

:40:55. > :41:01.what the change in culture has been and the national confidence that we

:41:01. > :41:09.have as individuals, that confidence amongst young people who

:41:09. > :41:13.see the loyalty as being to Wales. I see that there is a great

:41:13. > :41:22.difference sense that the modern devolution process. It will not

:41:22. > :41:28.refer to it is in historical terms. In terms of 1997, I see that

:41:28. > :41:34.confidence amongst people and that people call themselves Welsh as

:41:34. > :41:40.well. Yes, I agree that the mindset of our country has changed

:41:40. > :41:46.significantly. Can I come back to you what Jonathan have to answer

:41:46. > :41:50.the question? He recently suggested that the people of Scotland could

:41:50. > :41:55.no longer consider themselves British if they were to vote for

:41:55. > :41:59.independence? Do you agree with that? When I heard that he was

:41:59. > :42:04.making this grandstanding keynote speech, I thought it had the

:42:04. > :42:14.potential to be hugely significant. The debate in West Minister at the

:42:14. > :42:17.moment in terms of Lords reform, at... A guilty pleasure, I quite

:42:17. > :42:22.like Ed Miliband that I feel pity for him. I think he has some good

:42:22. > :42:26.ideas but he is being held back by his own party and those big debate

:42:26. > :42:29.in the party are quite interesting. The natural conclusion of his

:42:29. > :42:35.speech on English identity is that he would call for political

:42:35. > :42:39.recognition of that in English parliament and it was sadly lacking.

:42:39. > :42:43.Of all the interviews I have seen by political leaders, he did one

:42:43. > :42:47.for Channel 4, and it was one of the was painful ones I have ever

:42:47. > :42:57.seen. It is probably just as bad as the one I had just done for the

:42:57. > :42:58.

:42:58. > :43:03.BBC! It laid bare and I met Stefan, the weekend afterwards, and he laid

:43:03. > :43:06.bare that there was a contradiction that Unionist politicians find

:43:07. > :43:10.themselves in. They say that Wales and Scotland can exist as a nation,

:43:10. > :43:15.it does not have to be a state and they say that Britishness cannot

:43:15. > :43:20.exist without statehood. That is an enormous contradiction in the

:43:20. > :43:24.Unionist parties. What we are seeing as a result of that historic

:43:24. > :43:28.court victory by the SNP last year that we had this referendum in

:43:28. > :43:31.Scotland on independence, for the first time ever Unionist parties

:43:31. > :43:34.are having to justify the British state. It is not the national

:43:34. > :43:38.parties having to justify why they want and national status for our

:43:38. > :43:45.own countries, it is the Unionist parties having to justify the

:43:45. > :43:50.British state. We are living in very exciting times as a result.

:43:50. > :44:00.You do not use the term Britain, but lots of people do. Is there a

:44:00. > :44:06.

:44:06. > :44:14.Britishness they can survive be on the changing constitutional status?

:44:14. > :44:23.I was not happy with that the petition, because I thought it was

:44:23. > :44:30.over simplistic. I think the nature of it is so varied in its

:44:30. > :44:36.development and that it is impossible for me to talk about

:44:36. > :44:46.some identity and over different periods. It keeps changing.

:44:46. > :44:47.

:44:47. > :44:55.Fantastic stuff. A fantastic stuff he wrote. Developing the idea of

:44:55. > :45:05.Britain, and Elizabeth the first, but of course it is now Elizabeth

:45:05. > :45:10.

:45:10. > :45:14.In asking the question and what happens after Scotland with a

:45:14. > :45:18.referendum on independence, I think we expand our horizons and beyond

:45:18. > :45:22.the borders of the three geographical unit of Britain and I

:45:22. > :45:30.think we should be looking at other small independent countries like

:45:30. > :45:39.Denmark, Norway and Sweden. And I think that is where hour horizons

:45:39. > :45:44.lie in this party, anyway. And to look at their status as countries.

:45:44. > :45:47.Of course, it is thoroughly inevitable that we will have to

:45:47. > :45:54.redefine the relationship between Wales and other countries in the

:45:54. > :46:00.British Isles, but also, we should be asking the question what is

:46:00. > :46:10.Wales'' place in Europe? And I think the countries I have

:46:10. > :46:10.

:46:10. > :46:15.mentioned. Studying constitutional set-up as in other countries, can

:46:15. > :46:20.you collaborate on bat angle? and about angler file and I believe

:46:21. > :46:23.the process of independence and devolution gives us an exciting

:46:23. > :46:27.opportunity to redefined what it means to be British. Maybe most of

:46:27. > :46:31.us in this hall would not identify with the idea of Britishness as it

:46:31. > :46:36.is now because it is so intertwined with the issue of British state

:46:36. > :46:43.could, but what I think we need to find in these islands is

:46:43. > :46:46.accommodation for a twin-track Britain, if you like. One that is a

:46:46. > :46:53.reformed United Kingdom that can accommodate -- accommodate a

:46:53. > :46:57.federal set-up so they can have that but also enjoy a level of self

:46:57. > :47:00.determination and then the other track for Britain which would be

:47:00. > :47:05.along the model of the Nordic countries, like the Nordic Council,

:47:05. > :47:09.that you would have the British- Irish Council which would

:47:09. > :47:13.accommodate then the Independent States and the devolved States and

:47:13. > :47:17.the Crown dependencies within these islands, so you would have both

:47:17. > :47:22.frameworks that respond and accommodate the different

:47:22. > :47:26.constitutional status of Britain. I think we should be relaxed about

:47:26. > :47:30.that and we should be excited about the prospects that that gives us.

:47:30. > :47:34.What it means there is any nations which are still part of the United

:47:35. > :47:38.Kingdom, if they want to take the step to independence, there would

:47:38. > :47:43.not be any institutional problem because we would have the framework

:47:43. > :47:48.within the Council of the aisles or the British-Irish Council. If we

:47:48. > :47:54.look at the Nordic model, there are different ways we could work with

:47:54. > :47:58.our fellow leaders. Defence is one of them. Under it European defence

:47:58. > :48:02.co-operation, there are nations which come together to form a

:48:02. > :48:06.collective battle groups. A number of countries contribute towards a

:48:06. > :48:09.single battle group. I think it would make sense we would have a

:48:09. > :48:13.British-Irish battle group with a rotating command structure which

:48:13. > :48:18.could bring our nations together to work on defence as part of European

:48:19. > :48:23.project but also on a day-to-day co-operation. There are a number of

:48:23. > :48:27.fields. What is important is we recognise and the institutions

:48:27. > :48:31.recognise the sovereignty of the people of the individual nations.

:48:31. > :48:35.If that is respected within the framework of the United Kingdom and

:48:35. > :48:41.then within the framework of the Isles, that would provide us then

:48:41. > :48:45.with a mechanism which is far more responsive than we have now.

:48:45. > :48:48.TRANSLATION: It is with that discussion that we leave the events

:48:49. > :48:55.from the conference hall from this afternoon and indeed from this

:48:55. > :48:58.annual conference. Discussions are included about the economy, health

:48:58. > :49:02.and the future of the United Kingdom. Plenty to discuss and I'm

:49:02. > :49:07.sure the issues will be touched on with you, Bethan, back in the

:49:07. > :49:12.studio. Thank you. For the end of the programme I am

:49:12. > :49:22.joined by Adam Price, would we describe you as the guru of the

:49:22. > :49:22.

:49:22. > :49:28.party these days? Just an ordinary member. And our captain. Adam Price,

:49:28. > :49:35.R U full-time in the party? You are not an elected member at the moment

:49:35. > :49:40.but you are very much in charge, are you? No, I think it is called a

:49:40. > :49:47.portfolio of interests. Once Plaid Cymru is in your blood, a never

:49:47. > :49:51.disappears completely. You watched Leanne yesterday, presumably you

:49:51. > :49:56.were part of the process of that speech, she talked about having a

:49:56. > :50:01.team around her, you knew what was going to be in the speech? She had

:50:01. > :50:07.a team of people. I did not write any of the jokes so I do not want

:50:07. > :50:13.credit for that! What is interesting is Welsh politics is in

:50:14. > :50:18.a hiatus of -- a hiatus period at the moment because we do not have

:50:19. > :50:23.an imminent election. You heard that Plaid Cymru is going through a

:50:23. > :50:27.period of deep thinking. Any party which goes through a period of

:50:27. > :50:32.disappointment, what happens is you get an opportunity for new ideas.

:50:32. > :50:36.In a sense, you could even say that Plaid Cymru is a movement which it

:50:36. > :50:41.achieved its objective and is struggling to find a new role. I

:50:41. > :50:45.think it is beginning to identify that new role. Particularly the key

:50:45. > :50:50.issue of the Welsh economy. If we do not get that right, then all the

:50:51. > :50:55.other plans are academic. On the economy, we have talked to Lehane,

:50:55. > :51:01.we have talked to Jonathan Edwards who clearly did not enjoy the

:51:01. > :51:07.interview, on the economy, you may be can absolutely explain this

:51:07. > :51:15.green New Deal. It is work in progress. We have got the man who

:51:16. > :51:19.savaged Paxman talking about interviews. You must know the

:51:19. > :51:24.detail of Howard went. You say it will create a lot of jobs and we

:51:24. > :51:29.have heard about green energy and shopping local, that is not going

:51:29. > :51:33.to fix the economy, is it? It is green in two sensors. It is green

:51:33. > :51:37.in the literal sense that we have a competitive advantage in the areas

:51:37. > :51:42.of renewable technology. It is green in the more metaphoric sense

:51:42. > :51:47.that actually, what we need to do with a big idea is to find those

:51:47. > :51:50.other sectors where we have a competitive advantage. What we need

:51:50. > :51:55.to do is ask where is the world economy going to be in 15 or 20

:51:55. > :52:00.years' time, and how can this nation of 3 million fit into that.

:52:00. > :52:05.What are we specifically good at where we can carve a niche and we

:52:05. > :52:09.do not have the answer at the moment. But Leanne Wood is talking

:52:09. > :52:14.about being First Minister in 2016 and jobs are needed now, if you say

:52:14. > :52:21.you're going to fix the economy and in terms of your vision, people

:52:21. > :52:27.want to know where the jobs will be. She did put out three broad areas

:52:27. > :52:33.which give a direction of travel, new institutions, pension funds, �6

:52:33. > :52:43.billion in public sector pension funds in Wales not a penny of it

:52:43. > :52:44.

:52:44. > :52:50.invested in Wales. But Wales cannot govern the market so. Civil

:52:50. > :52:55.servants on not the best placed to come up with ideas to come up with

:52:55. > :53:00.the business sector. Civil servants work within a particular context.

:53:00. > :53:07.We need a new specialist agency and come to terms with the fact that

:53:07. > :53:14.the business birthrate has collapsed in Wales and we are not

:53:14. > :53:18.producing research and development. The one next? Are want to be a

:53:18. > :53:21.technology entrepreneur. You do not see yourself as an elected

:53:21. > :53:26.politician? What I would like to see is more and different people

:53:26. > :53:29.getting involved in politics, including people with all sorts of

:53:29. > :53:35.backgrounds and politics is too important in Wales to be left to

:53:35. > :53:39.politicians. People also want to know what is next for Adam Price

:53:39. > :53:44.because you are a key member of this party, are you going to go

:53:44. > :53:48.back to Westminster? Do you want to be leader one-day? Any thoughts?

:53:48. > :53:52.would like the opportunity to serve up some point in the future, I have

:53:52. > :53:57.said that. But there are other ways to contribute and what I want to do

:53:57. > :54:00.is to create jobs and do that as an entrepreneur but working with

:54:00. > :54:03.politicians like Leanne Wood who understand that that is the

:54:03. > :54:07.critical question. Unless we get that right, or the other wonderful

:54:07. > :54:17.plants we have in terms of the future of Wales, to be honest with

:54:17. > :54:18.

:54:18. > :54:22.you, they are abstract and academic. Last word, Vaughan. In terms of the

:54:22. > :54:27.positioning of Plaid Cymru, the goal has been achieved, they are

:54:27. > :54:32.struggling to find a new one, would you agree with that? Might do not

:54:32. > :54:38.think the goal has been achieved in terms of the ultimate goal. Plaid

:54:38. > :54:42.Cymru did have a step change. It established an elected assembly or

:54:42. > :54:47.parliament. In a sense, independence was always a distant

:54:48. > :54:52.dream for Plaid Cymru, compared to the SNP. The SNP was always a

:54:52. > :54:57.political party from the beginning which was focused on independence.

:54:57. > :55:01.Plaid Cymru was more of a movement than a party which was about

:55:01. > :55:06.protecting Welsh culture. The Eames originally were about defending the

:55:06. > :55:10.economy and culture of Wales. Self- government was a means to that end.

:55:10. > :55:16.They now say we're in that process so where is the end of that

:55:16. > :55:22.process? How does that process and up defending the economy and

:55:22. > :55:26.cultural ways. We should be talking about 2014 which is a referendum in

:55:26. > :55:31.Scotland. To what extent will events their shape this party?

:55:31. > :55:36.Welsh politics is facing a giant red Reset button that is governed

:55:36. > :55:40.by the referendum in Scotland and what happens in the general

:55:40. > :55:45.election six months after that. If Labour come back into government,

:55:45. > :55:48.if the referendum is no, that is entirely different to yes

:55:48. > :55:52.referendum in Scotland and a Conservative government at UK level.

:55:52. > :56:02.This is a government which is having to prepare for all sorts of

:56:02. > :56:04.

:56:04. > :56:08.a bench while it is.-all sorts of eventualities. Is your fate in

:56:08. > :56:14.Scotland's hands? I am not a betting man but Alex Salmond is and

:56:14. > :56:20.I would not bet against him. Will this man lead-up Plaid Cymru one-

:56:20. > :56:26.day? It is for him to answer. A fire was Alex Salmond, I would put

:56:26. > :56:31.some money on him. Thank you both ever so much. We lookout for Adam

:56:31. > :56:37.Price the entrepreneur in Wales and thank you, Vaughan. We will be back

:56:37. > :56:41.together presenting on S4C on Wednesday night. That is it from

:56:41. > :56:46.the conference in Brecon. The GB Wales rally have been and gone, the