Live Morning Session

:00:07. > :00:11.Dafydd Elis-Thomas has said his goodbye to Plaid Cymru. Leanne Wood

:00:12. > :00:14.shook hands on a deal with Labour. A sign of things to come? Welcome to

:00:15. > :00:29.conference live. Good morning and welcome to our

:00:30. > :00:33.programme from the Plaid Cymru conference. It's been quite a week

:00:34. > :00:38.for the party. The resignation of an AM, deal with Labour to pass the

:00:39. > :00:42.budget and is talk of a coalition. Plenty to occupy the minds of

:00:43. > :00:49.delegates avidin langue Colin. If you want to join the debate, we are

:00:50. > :00:54.on Twitter. And there to guide us through the proceedings, our Welsh

:00:55. > :00:58.affairs editor Vaughan Roderick. Let's take things in chronological

:00:59. > :01:04.order. The resignation of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas. A lot of people

:01:05. > :01:08.saw this coming. Is it a blow for Plaid Cymru or will they be glad to

:01:09. > :01:14.see the back of him? Elements of both. Someone in Plaid Cymru said to

:01:15. > :01:18.me this is the first time the years we won't have Dafydd Elis-Thomas

:01:19. > :01:21.seeing anything embarrassing on the Thursday before conference so that

:01:22. > :01:26.is an element of relief I think because he has been a thorn in the

:01:27. > :01:32.leadership's side for a long time. But there is genuine anger, people

:01:33. > :01:36.feel he used the party and was happy to let the party paid for his

:01:37. > :01:42.leaflets, distributed leaflets, that he let down his local party in a

:01:43. > :01:48.pretty shabby way. People say this might be understandable, two years

:01:49. > :01:52.into an assembly term of three years in but six months looks like he used

:01:53. > :01:57.Plaid Cymru as a flag of convenience in the 70 elections. Then followed

:01:58. > :02:03.the budget deal with Labour. Hailed by Plaid Cymru as the best budget

:02:04. > :02:09.deal for an opposition party since the formation of the assembly. How

:02:10. > :02:17.significant a deal is this? If you look at these deals, there are

:02:18. > :02:21.things people on the Labour side would like to do anyway. It's not a

:02:22. > :02:26.case of them forcing Labour to do something they are opposed to.

:02:27. > :02:31.Probably what they would say is for the first half at least of this

:02:32. > :02:36.assembly term with all the questions surrounding Brexit Wales needs

:02:37. > :02:40.stability and having an agreement with Plaid Cymru and Labour over the

:02:41. > :02:44.budget ensures that stability. It leaves Dafydd Elis-Thomas a bit

:02:45. > :02:48.lonely. He may have thought that by leaving Plaid Cymru he would become

:02:49. > :02:52.the government's 31st vote. It appears to me the government is not

:02:53. > :02:57.interested in dealing with Dafydd Elis-Thomas. They want to continue

:02:58. > :03:01.dealing with Plaid Cymru. Then this talk or non-talk of a coalition with

:03:02. > :03:09.Labour. As a Leanne Wood been flip-flopping on this? Either that

:03:10. > :03:15.or loose lipped. I was not at the briefings were she is reported to

:03:16. > :03:18.have said that the coalition with Labour was under consideration. But

:03:19. > :03:27.my colleagues were and all of them were clear about what she said. It

:03:28. > :03:33.does appear that she opened the door to a bug of speculation that was

:03:34. > :03:36.pretty pointless at this stage since no one expect there to be a

:03:37. > :03:39.coalition formed at this stage of the assembly. They might be one

:03:40. > :03:45.further down the track that no one is thinking now that there will be a

:03:46. > :03:49.coalition. We can put some flesh on the bones of those topics over the

:03:50. > :03:54.course of the next couple of hours. Let's head over to London and our

:03:55. > :04:01.reporter has been talking to as many people as she can. Good morning.

:04:02. > :04:10.Good morning. It has been a challenging week for Plaid Cymru. It

:04:11. > :04:15.has indeed. Welcome to langue Colin were Plaid Cymru's members are

:04:16. > :04:18.gathering for this conference. Yes a challenging week as he said. Just

:04:19. > :04:25.over a week now since Dafydd Elis-Thomas made that decision to

:04:26. > :04:29.leave the party. It was not unexpected may be in terms of the

:04:30. > :04:33.big picture but the timing perhaps was a bit unexpected. Definitely a

:04:34. > :04:39.sense here that people want to move on from that and I have asked some

:04:40. > :04:49.people about it and people just want to focus on what is being discussed

:04:50. > :04:53.here. Also, that talk of coalition. Again, nothing they want to talk

:04:54. > :04:57.about explicitly but there is that tension about where Plaid Cymru

:04:58. > :05:03.positions itself and the extent to which it props up Labour and to what

:05:04. > :05:06.extent it opposes. The morale is pretty good. They have not had the

:05:07. > :05:14.major divisions we have seen with other parties. But when they are

:05:15. > :05:18.talking about Europe the main thing they are talking about is Brexit and

:05:19. > :05:24.how Wales and the Welsh Government should position itself on that. They

:05:25. > :05:29.wanted Wales to stay in the European Union and they think there are big

:05:30. > :05:32.dangers in Brexit for Wales. Would we be right in thinking that Brexit

:05:33. > :05:39.will be the dominating theme in this conference? Definitely. That is true

:05:40. > :05:43.of any political discussion at the moment. Yesterday we heard from the

:05:44. > :05:48.party's of spokesman Rhun ap Iorwerth talking about wrecks it and

:05:49. > :05:52.how the Welsh Government needs to make a stronger case for Wales

:05:53. > :05:57.staying and Britain staying within the single market and the importance

:05:58. > :06:06.of that for the Welsh economy. Hywel Williams also said the harder Brexit

:06:07. > :06:10.position was and patriotic. The feeling that they need to put

:06:11. > :06:14.pressure on the Welsh Government. There are questions about Plaid

:06:15. > :06:17.Cymru's stands on this. Is what they are proposing, staying on the single

:06:18. > :06:20.market and the continuation of free movement of people as part of that

:06:21. > :06:26.so maintaining levels of immigration, is that in the spirit

:06:27. > :06:35.of how people voted? Thank you and there will be plenty more during the

:06:36. > :06:40.course of this morning. The conference started yesterday and

:06:41. > :06:47.Beth Al Lewis made reference to it. One of the main speeches was that of

:06:48. > :06:51.the Shadow Health Secretary. We will hear a lot about Brexit in the lead

:06:52. > :06:55.is a speech this afternoon which will be live here on BBC Two Wales.

:06:56. > :07:03.It also featured heavily in the contribution from the Assembly

:07:04. > :07:08.Member from Anglesey. The internationalist ever that takes

:07:09. > :07:15.place year lag in each year is a great symbol of something that is

:07:16. > :07:22.very important to me and to Wales. That is Welsh international is.

:07:23. > :07:27.Wales welcoming the world and celebrating diversity by inviting

:07:28. > :07:32.the world here and generating global links and associations and

:07:33. > :07:42.relationships in doing so. The world coming together in the context of a

:07:43. > :07:48.Welsh setting. It's interesting to note that the first National

:07:49. > :07:55.Eisteddfod took place in London at Primrose Hill. It was back then in

:07:56. > :08:02.1792 that that the voices of Welsh poets and Welsh singers filled the

:08:03. > :08:08.air. It's time that London and the Westminster government heard another

:08:09. > :08:16.Welsh voice, a united voice uniting those who voted to leave as well as

:08:17. > :08:19.those that voted to remain in June's referendum. A voice saying to the UK

:08:20. > :08:26.Government deliver annex it that works for Wales as well as it

:08:27. > :08:29.possibly can. Yes Wales voted to leave but I don't think Wales wants

:08:30. > :08:43.to take leave of its senses when it comes to our economic future. There

:08:44. > :08:53.is much uncertainty about the future. Uncertainty about what lies

:08:54. > :08:55.ahead. The Austrian American author business finger Peter Drucker said

:08:56. > :09:02.the best way to predict the future is to create it and it's a very

:09:03. > :09:05.relevant message at a time when so many people, especially young

:09:06. > :09:11.people, feel that their future has been taken away from them. We have

:09:12. > :09:19.to give them that future and let's be clear about the future we wish to

:09:20. > :09:24.create for our country. This is a very famous hall in Welsh political

:09:25. > :09:29.history. I hope you realise that. It was in this hall that a certain

:09:30. > :09:37.former Secretary of State for Wales made a mess of the Welsh and love

:09:38. > :09:42.them. -- national anthem. John Redwood knows he made a fool of

:09:43. > :09:45.himself that day. I am sure he regrets every now and then that he

:09:46. > :09:50.just stand there quietly and respectfully. He has been the butt

:09:51. > :09:57.of many jokes over that particular afternoon here at the National

:09:58. > :10:05.Eisteddfod pavilion. But Wales, don't roll over and let him and the

:10:06. > :10:08.hard Brexit is have the last laugh when it comes to the future of our

:10:09. > :10:19.country. We all need to work together on this. So Welsh

:10:20. > :10:26.Government has to commit more energy to fighting Wales' corner but at the

:10:27. > :10:30.same time we have to ensure that the eyes and taken off the ball in terms

:10:31. > :10:35.of the rest of the work of government. Worked like delivering

:10:36. > :10:41.the kind of NHS that we as patients and the staff working hard within it

:10:42. > :10:45.know it could be. We have many of the right ingredients already. A

:10:46. > :10:50.committed and skilled workforce. But we have a shortage of some of those

:10:51. > :10:55.vital ingredients into many areas and we also have in the Welsh Labour

:10:56. > :11:01.government a shortage of real strategy for a new approach to

:11:02. > :11:04.delivering better health care. Plaid Cymru's input I think into this

:11:05. > :11:11.week's budget announcement has demonstrated that in some areas what

:11:12. > :11:16.Labour regarded as impossible or fantasy politics is not. Those who

:11:17. > :11:20.criticised us for having an overambitious health policy that

:11:21. > :11:25.could not be afforded in times of austerities should reflect on some

:11:26. > :11:29.of what has been achieved through this just one set of budget

:11:30. > :11:35.negotiations in terms of carefully targeted investment. But make no

:11:36. > :11:40.mistake, we will continue to scrutinise the performance of labour

:11:41. > :11:46.in running the NHS, record that is let's be honest poor. What we have

:11:47. > :11:51.done with this one budget deal is to help remove some of the cant afford

:11:52. > :11:55.it excuses. We have directed much needed investment towards mental

:11:56. > :12:00.health. We have provided the tools for bringing down waiting times for

:12:01. > :12:07.diagnostic tests which should have a knock-on effect on wider waiting

:12:08. > :12:08.times for treatment. But the day-to-day responsibility for

:12:09. > :12:17.improving performance remains with Labour. I would like to see an end

:12:18. > :12:24.to the excuses offered by Labour on health. It always seems to be

:12:25. > :12:28.somebody else's fault why we have long waiting times or waste services

:12:29. > :12:32.are difficult to access. It's the fault of the UK Government for

:12:33. > :12:38.cutting the budget, it's the fault of Wales 's reviving heavy industry

:12:39. > :12:42.which left us with an ill population, it's the fault of the

:12:43. > :12:47.patients for going to a any rather than waiting for the nonexistent out

:12:48. > :12:53.of hours service. It's the fault of the media for reducing morale. It's

:12:54. > :12:57.our fault for being too negative. Let's instead in the spirit of

:12:58. > :13:03.positivity urged government to look for innovation, develop our own

:13:04. > :13:08.innovation. It's Plaid Cymru working with campaigns like a right to live

:13:09. > :13:11.that forced the government into rethinking the unfair process for

:13:12. > :13:20.individual funding requests for treatment. I am proud of that. Let's

:13:21. > :13:27.not say cant. This Scottish but -- government had their budgets cut as

:13:28. > :13:30.well. They are also looking after population dealing with the legacy

:13:31. > :13:39.of heavy industry and poverty but we are the ones being left behind. I

:13:40. > :13:43.don't want a system where a man in his 80s speaks to me about his

:13:44. > :13:49.despair at the fact that his wife has been on a hospital ward because

:13:50. > :13:53.of a simple infection for five months because there is no dementia

:13:54. > :13:58.care package available for her. I don't want the system where patients

:13:59. > :14:02.see their local surgery closed because there aren't enough doctors

:14:03. > :14:06.to work there. I don't want a system where pressures on staff and

:14:07. > :14:11.patients wait weeks when it occurred and should be days for cancer

:14:12. > :14:18.diagnosis, sometimes with devastating consequences. I am not

:14:19. > :14:25.into the game of whether our system is better or worse than England. We

:14:26. > :14:34.can learn from them and they can learn from us. We can all learn from

:14:35. > :14:39.much further afield. I simply want the Welsh NHS to be the best it can

:14:40. > :15:00.be. Our people and dedicated staff deserve no less.

:15:01. > :15:10.There are bits of what motivated people to vote no in June are things

:15:11. > :15:16.I understand completely. It was the desire to blame something for all

:15:17. > :15:22.the social and financial ills that have hit the poorest hardest. The

:15:23. > :15:28.desire to punish politicians for giving the impression that we have

:15:29. > :15:37.not been listening. And the challenge for Plaid Cymru is to

:15:38. > :15:43.renew that faith and trust. Neither we nor any other party can avoid the

:15:44. > :15:49.blame. Politicians are all seem as the same thing but Plaid Cymru is a

:15:50. > :15:52.party that is rooted in the communities of Wales. Therefore we

:15:53. > :16:06.are in a strong situation to regain that respect and faith. If we work

:16:07. > :16:12.hard we can show that we are ready to act and that is why I am very

:16:13. > :16:18.proud to be working with a team of counsellors, active members and

:16:19. > :16:26.working for a very special aim, to get the best out of our communities

:16:27. > :16:31.and to get the best for our nation. And the result of the election

:16:32. > :16:37.showed in May that people are very keen to trust in us when we show

:16:38. > :16:45.that we are willing to work for them and for that trust.

:16:46. > :16:57.So, to close. We are an old nation, but the new Wales is still young.

:16:58. > :17:04.Ours is an ancient plant, but this new Wales is still in its infancy.

:17:05. > :17:10.-- an ancient land. The recently crowned nor Baulch -- know about

:17:11. > :17:17.Laurie said he who is not busy being born is busy dying. I will close

:17:18. > :17:23.with these words. A new Wales holds so much potential for its people and

:17:24. > :17:27.its communities must not be allowed to falter. And the challengers put

:17:28. > :17:37.on our way are merely there to be overcome. Thank you very much.

:17:38. > :17:41.APPLAUSE. That was Rhun Ap Iorwerth from the

:17:42. > :17:46.state of the future for the Welsh NHS. Despite a favourable settlement

:17:47. > :17:50.this week, different councils face very different challenges. One

:17:51. > :17:55.particular example came to the fore this week as the leader of

:17:56. > :18:01.Ceredigion Council Alan up Quinn was forced to apologise for swearing in

:18:02. > :18:05.a BBC interview Waleed defending the way her council went about finding

:18:06. > :18:12.savings. She spoke yesterday of her experiences working in a rural area.

:18:13. > :18:17.When we look over the developments, I am struck by how much more

:18:18. > :18:22.difficult it is by now to cope with continuous cuts, and over the last

:18:23. > :18:31.four years, the rural areas of Wales have suffered much deeper cuts than

:18:32. > :18:37.the more urban districts, and I can assure you that fair funding for

:18:38. > :18:42.communities has been top of the agenda when discussing it with the

:18:43. > :18:51.new Cabinet Secretary who came to visit me recently. We have to thank

:18:52. > :18:56.Adam Price in particular for his hand in the behind-the-scenes

:18:57. > :19:02.discussions concerning local Government for 2017-2018. It is not

:19:03. > :19:06.half enough, of course, but the financial pot isn't anywhere near

:19:07. > :19:10.enough, either. This needs far more investment, otherwise we will lose

:19:11. > :19:15.critical services that are so essential for our people on the

:19:16. > :19:22.ground. Social services are just as important as health. One is

:19:23. > :19:26.dependent on the other. If health fails, then the social services have

:19:27. > :19:32.to pick up the pieces, and without sufficient funding, they cannot do

:19:33. > :19:38.so. But thankfully, some additional money has come to light. But in

:19:39. > :19:44.truth, the what is continuing to get smaller and smaller. There is a lot

:19:45. > :19:52.of work to do in that field. Since my first report in May 2012 the

:19:53. > :20:00.budget of Ceredigion has decreased by ?34 million. That is 26% of the

:20:01. > :20:03.budget gone. That has meant reducing the workforce significantly, and

:20:04. > :20:12.that is not the end, either. The cost of employment has risen by ?10

:20:13. > :20:16.million, but we can see that the greatest number of cuts have come

:20:17. > :20:22.through reshaping our services across the council. And what is

:20:23. > :20:27.becoming more and more obvious, the cuts are now hitting our services on

:20:28. > :20:33.the ground, and hitting the county's economy, as well. As with other

:20:34. > :20:39.every other county. Thanks to George Osborne and here's austerity budget

:20:40. > :20:44.and the coalition Government of the Tories and Lib Dems which Ceredigion

:20:45. > :20:49.refuse to acknowledge, the Lib Dems refused to take responsibility for

:20:50. > :20:54.the cuts. There is a strong argument by this party that following such a

:20:55. > :20:58.policy not only damages core services but also, even worse,

:20:59. > :21:05.weakens the entire economy. But there is some light through the

:21:06. > :21:17.darkness. We will wait for the statement, but up until now, the

:21:18. > :21:23.Brexit breakfast trio, we await with bated breath what they come out

:21:24. > :21:28.with... But we can at least take pride in the fact that Ceredigion

:21:29. > :21:38.voted to Remain, but on the other hand the farms in Ceredigion are in

:21:39. > :21:42.danger of losing ?44 million of grant money unless London fills the

:21:43. > :21:51.void. We will wait and see about that. That is enough good news for

:21:52. > :21:57.now! I'll rephrase that, that's the end of the bad news. And now for the

:21:58. > :22:00.good news. One thing that really encouraged me during the year was

:22:01. > :22:06.the way communities across the county opened their hearts after

:22:07. > :22:13.hearing about the poor people trying to escape from the atrocities in

:22:14. > :22:18.Syria. Collecting money and goods was fantastic. The people of

:22:19. > :22:23.Ceredigion reacted with their usual generosity, and working together,

:22:24. > :22:27.under the local services board, they responded to the current crisis and

:22:28. > :22:34.offered homes to the refugees within the county. By now, it's a small

:22:35. > :22:38.number, 11 have been welcome to Aberystwyth and another seven

:22:39. > :22:44.arriving next month. Others have settled very well, and the children

:22:45. > :22:53.are in schools and taking part in activities in the community. Some

:22:54. > :22:56.have already got jobs. We hope to take far more over the next few

:22:57. > :23:01.years over the five years of the programme, said thank you everybody

:23:02. > :23:06.who took part and helped. It is good to see that the message has also

:23:07. > :23:13.spread across Wales. But in light of the financial situation, taking hard

:23:14. > :23:18.decisions has been part of what we had to do. It wasn't going to be

:23:19. > :23:25.easy, and we had to pull together for the sake of our residents. Elen

:23:26. > :23:29.Ap Gwynn the leader of Ceredigion Council. The uplift in funding for

:23:30. > :23:34.some of the councils in Wales came about as a consequence of that deal

:23:35. > :23:39.between Labour and Plaid in the Assembly this week. Talking at the

:23:40. > :23:44.Assembly, one of the new intake is Neil McAvoy, the regional Member for

:23:45. > :23:49.South Wales West, and he is on stage at the moment. They don't know what

:23:50. > :23:57.they are. Is it right wing red Tory Blairite party, or is it, read

:23:58. > :24:03.Corbyn's UK nationalists? I don't know. -- is it comrades Corbyn's UK

:24:04. > :24:07.nationalists? Where were the biggest swings in May, Blaenau Gwent,

:24:08. > :24:14.Rhondda, Cardiff West, or from Labour to Plaid All Labour's

:24:15. > :24:17.so-called heartlands. These are Wales's heartlands and we are The

:24:18. > :24:26.Party of Wales. APPLAUSE.

:24:27. > :24:32.The strategic aim, therefore, of Plaid needs to be simple. We will

:24:33. > :24:37.replace the Labour Party as the Government of Wales.

:24:38. > :24:47.APPLAUSE. I've been busy since being elected,

:24:48. > :24:51.spending most of my time out of the Senedd, knocking on doors, speaking

:24:52. > :24:56.to people, fighting injustices and getting results for my constituents.

:24:57. > :25:00.I was in Barry on Thursday with residents and Plaid activists

:25:01. > :25:07.fighting yet another incinerator. I have also been busy shining a light

:25:08. > :25:10.on the lobbyists. Now, the Labour Party and their First Minister

:25:11. > :25:18.opposes regulating their friends in the lobbying industry. Now, does

:25:19. > :25:26.cash for access existing Cardiff Bay? Of course it does. -- exist in

:25:27. > :25:32.Cardiff Bay. And guess what, Labour ministers refused to disclose their

:25:33. > :25:37.diaries. They refuse to let the public know who they are meeting.

:25:38. > :25:46.And why. And that is a recipe for corruption. On Wednesday, I held a

:25:47. > :25:52.short debate in the Senedd debates to call for a register of lobbyists.

:25:53. > :25:57.I will keep campaigning until we get one. We need to protect our party

:25:58. > :26:05.and our watchdog democracy from corporate interests. APPLAUSE.

:26:06. > :26:11.APPLAUSE Lobbyists sell their services to the highest bidder.

:26:12. > :26:15.People like the British soft drinks Association, who will do whatever it

:26:16. > :26:21.takes to stop legislation which would reduce the amount of sugar

:26:22. > :26:26.children consume. Or the billing companies who want to destroy our

:26:27. > :26:29.green lungs in our capital city -- building companies, and who refuse

:26:30. > :26:34.to build north of Pontypridd in my constituency. We need to bring

:26:35. > :26:38.lobbying out into the open, and the public has the right to know who is

:26:39. > :26:46.being paid what to influence what decision. With a ?16 billion budget,

:26:47. > :26:50.Wales needs transparency, and regulation should be introduced

:26:51. > :26:57.without delay. I hope our whole party is able to fully get behind

:26:58. > :27:02.our Clean-up Cardiff Bay campaign because this party also needs to

:27:03. > :27:06.look at its relationship with commercial lobbyists. It is fair to

:27:07. > :27:10.say that I have had a few run ins with the First Minister over the

:27:11. > :27:14.local development plan in Cardiff, and for those who don't know, Labour

:27:15. > :27:20.took over the council in 2012 stating that they did not want to

:27:21. > :27:24.build on our green fields. Some of them even produced leaflets with

:27:25. > :27:30.children standing in fields under threat, holding up Labour signs, and

:27:31. > :27:34.accused us of being liars. Of course, as I knew they would, within

:27:35. > :27:40.months of being elected, Labour and announced plans to build tens of

:27:41. > :27:43.thousands of houses in the countryside surrounding Cardiff.

:27:44. > :27:47.Those same fields where they stood so cynically with those children

:27:48. > :27:50.will be bulldozed to make way for the new, sprawling suburbs that they

:27:51. > :27:56.assured us they have no intention of building. Traffic is already

:27:57. > :28:03.terrible comic queues go on for miles every day. Whilst politicians

:28:04. > :28:05.talk in the Assembly about reducing air pollution, the political

:28:06. > :28:10.decisions they make will ensure the lungs of our families will be filled

:28:11. > :28:15.with poisonous fumes, and virtually no extra public transport is being

:28:16. > :28:21.provided. Every consultation they have ever had shows that people

:28:22. > :28:30.don't want this. We have helped local referenda with thousands

:28:31. > :28:34.voting, 98% opposed the concrete and the carmageddon, yet Labour refused

:28:35. > :28:39.to listen. But this isn't happening in the whole of Cardiff. In the rich

:28:40. > :28:42.northern suburbs, Labour started a campaign for a green belt, so it is

:28:43. > :28:49.green belt for the wealthier areas but Green destruction for Fairwater

:28:50. > :28:54.and Ely. Where are the Corbyn supporters challenging this? Here is

:28:55. > :28:57.an example of environmental vandalism being inflicted on

:28:58. > :29:02.disadvantaged communities to make huge profits for housing developers,

:29:03. > :29:07.employing lobbyists by the way. Where is the so-called champion of

:29:08. > :29:13.the environment. Labour appointed well-being and future generations

:29:14. > :29:17.Commissioner Sophie how. In the Senedd, the only response I get to

:29:18. > :29:22.my questions from the First Minister on the LDP is outright rudeness. He

:29:23. > :29:26.told me I live in a land of fantasy, called me a coward, says my

:29:27. > :29:32.statements in the Senedd not worthy of response. He is the one living in

:29:33. > :29:38.a fantasyland. He will not admit that he stated on the record to a

:29:39. > :29:42.journalist his party would implement the LDP, meaning tens of thousands

:29:43. > :29:47.of houses built on Cardiff's greenfield sites. And this has been

:29:48. > :29:53.confirmed by the journalist, even though Carwyn Jones still denies it.

:29:54. > :29:57.But his Government press office is slightly confused, because they say

:29:58. > :30:01.he did say it, but as leader of the Labour Party and Potter 's First

:30:02. > :30:06.Minister. Now, you couldn't make it up, could you? You know, Carwyn

:30:07. > :30:10.Jones might not think my statements in the Senedd are worthy of

:30:11. > :30:13.response, but he will get his response in May when Labour are

:30:14. > :30:14.thrown out of city Government in Cardiff.

:30:15. > :30:26.APPLAUSE. . Now, the thing is, this isn't just

:30:27. > :30:31.happening in Cardiff. We have Wrexham, they have tried to do it in

:30:32. > :30:35.Caerphilly, Plaid Cymru activists including the unstoppable Lindsay

:30:36. > :30:43.Whittle got the plans thrown out. APPLAUSE.

:30:44. > :30:48.Now, our communities are not here to be steam-rollered by some planning

:30:49. > :30:53.Inspectorate in Birmingham. They don't care about our history, our

:30:54. > :30:58.culture, our way of life. They have no concern that the quiet rural

:30:59. > :31:03.villages of Saint flagons and others are about to be part of a massive

:31:04. > :31:06.housing estate all built on green fields, and the housing developers

:31:07. > :31:11.certainly don't care about our way of life. The new developments,

:31:12. > :31:16.church lands, Cardiff Point, with a knee at the end for no apparent

:31:17. > :31:21.reason, this is Cardiff, the capital of Wales, we are not some corporate

:31:22. > :31:24.cash cow. We are the largest collection of Welsh people living

:31:25. > :31:26.together they have ever been in history, and our capital city must

:31:27. > :31:44.reflect this. A Cardiff Plaid Cymru councillor

:31:45. > :31:48.will use section 68 and will vote to tell the Welsh assembly to revoke

:31:49. > :31:59.Cardiff's unwanted local development plan because we will protect our

:32:00. > :32:04.city after May's election. This is easily the worst Welsh Government in

:32:05. > :32:07.history. The evidence is all around us. Just a few weeks ago I was

:32:08. > :32:14.exposing Labour's incompetence in the media, they sold to shops in

:32:15. > :32:19.Pontypridd and lost ?1 million. ?1 million just gone on to shops. How

:32:20. > :32:25.many play centres is that? How many doctors or nurses? This land in

:32:26. > :32:29.Rhoose which was sold by the Welsh Government for ?3 million and the

:32:30. > :32:40.person who bought it then sold the land for ?10.5 million. Another ?7.5

:32:41. > :32:49.million loss. But the real jewel in Labour's incompetence was the

:32:50. > :32:59.Lisvane land deal. Land was sold for just ?1.8 million when it was worth

:33:00. > :33:08.over ?40 million. Labour lost ?39 million of our money on one land

:33:09. > :33:13.deal. When ?39 million is lost like that somebody should be going to

:33:14. > :33:20.jail. At the very least somebody should lose their job. But nothing

:33:21. > :33:25.in Cardiff Bay, it's just another day at the office for this dodgy

:33:26. > :33:32.Welsh Labour. Business support as well is being squandered. A business

:33:33. > :33:38.next to Edwina Hart was like former constituency where the money was

:33:39. > :33:45.signed off by Edwina Hart. Did she declare an interest? Of course not.

:33:46. > :33:49.?3.4 million loss on a company which was described as having a weak

:33:50. > :33:57.business case. That doesn't stop Labour. Whistle-blowers are coming

:33:58. > :34:03.to me all the time and the stories I hear amount to a scandal. Who needs

:34:04. > :34:09.a strong business plan when a nod and a wink and knowing the right

:34:10. > :34:17.Labour people is all that really matters? This was not what we signed

:34:18. > :34:22.up for. Devolution was meant to be about Wales being governed better

:34:23. > :34:30.for the people of Wales not some red Tory aristocrats. There are people

:34:31. > :34:37.think this Welsh Labour government is so bad that we need to go into

:34:38. > :34:43.coalition with them. Let me tell you, Labour want coalition. They

:34:44. > :34:47.would love a coalition and there is a small minority and Plaid Cymru

:34:48. > :34:55.will think that we have to take one for the team. To do what is right

:34:56. > :35:07.for Wales. The simple truth is that what is right for Wales is ending

:35:08. > :35:11.Labour rule. We need to spend the next four and a half years grinding

:35:12. > :35:16.them down, challenging them at every opportunity. The way to move Wales

:35:17. > :35:29.forward is by moving Labour out of the way. If our contact with Labour

:35:30. > :35:33.is so good let's have a vote on it. Labour vote against bringing in an

:35:34. > :35:41.autism act and that should have been game over. We should have nothing to

:35:42. > :35:49.do with that. The public once robust opposition and that is what we

:35:50. > :35:51.should give them. When we challenged Labour to be first blister our

:35:52. > :35:58.support went up in the opinion polls. But we backed down and our

:35:59. > :36:04.level of support dropped. We need to take a serious look at ourselves

:36:05. > :36:08.because it may we had an unpopular Conservative government, a Liberal

:36:09. > :36:13.Democrat party which had imploded, a CORBA night Labour Party in free

:36:14. > :36:18.fall yet we only had good results in a handful of seats. If we go into

:36:19. > :36:30.coalition with Labour we will lose support and we will never have the

:36:31. > :36:36.power to really change Wales. We are not a pressure group. We don't exist

:36:37. > :36:42.to movement he around in Labour's budget. We need to take over the

:36:43. > :36:47.reins of power in this country. We needed Plaid Cymru government and a

:36:48. > :36:51.Plaid Cymru First Minister in charge of the thousands of Welsh civil

:36:52. > :37:05.servants who will implement our manifesto. Our Welsh democracy needs

:37:06. > :37:13.recognisable difference. We need clear green water between a corrupt,

:37:14. > :37:24.stagnant Welsh Labour and as the party of Wales. Wales needs a real

:37:25. > :37:33.opposition and that can only come from us. Thank you.

:37:34. > :37:39.That was Neil McEvoy the Assembly Member for South Wales Central and

:37:40. > :37:43.little doubt as to which side of the feds he is sitting on when talk of a

:37:44. > :37:47.coalition with Labour comes up. Let's step out of the conference

:37:48. > :38:00.hall and join our reporter who has some guests. I am joined by Sian

:38:01. > :38:05.Gwenllian and Mabon ap Gwynfor. Let's get your reaction to what you

:38:06. > :38:13.heard from Neil McEvoy. Very strong words about Welsh Labour. About the

:38:14. > :38:16.prospect of a coalition and the corporation going on between Labour

:38:17. > :38:20.and Plaid Cymru. What do you make of what he had to say? He is a

:38:21. > :38:27.passionate politician who is doing fantastic work in Cardiff and is

:38:28. > :38:33.actually leading a very strong local election campaign in the city of

:38:34. > :38:38.Cardiff. Should we view this in the context of Plaid Cymru against

:38:39. > :38:48.Labour in local elections? He has got a strong point of view. I don't

:38:49. > :38:54.share most of it. I think Plaid Cymru can be in opposition and can

:38:55. > :39:03.be constructive as well as being pointing out what's wrong. We need

:39:04. > :39:10.in our team different points of view coming through and Neal is a very

:39:11. > :39:15.valuable member of our team. I think we can work with Labour on some

:39:16. > :39:18.things, for example I've got a Welsh language in my portfolio and I work

:39:19. > :39:25.with the Minister Alun Davies to move forward some aspects. But if I

:39:26. > :39:28.think things are progressing quickly enough or targets are not being sent

:39:29. > :39:34.for strategies are not being followed through I will be the first

:39:35. > :39:39.one to start criticising as well. So we need that too edged approach.

:39:40. > :39:44.Neil McEvoy suggested there should be a vote on the agreement that is

:39:45. > :39:48.between Labour and Plaid Cymru and gave rise to the budget agreement

:39:49. > :39:56.for example. What are you make of that? I would not like to see a

:39:57. > :40:00.vote. As a member of Plaid Cymru we delegate powers to our Assembly

:40:01. > :40:05.Members and our elected representatives to go into

:40:06. > :40:09.discussions with other parties in the assembly so that they can strike

:40:10. > :40:13.the best deal. We stood by our manifesto and we hope and we are

:40:14. > :40:21.happy this time that Plaid Cymru has managed to secure the best deal

:40:22. > :40:24.possible for the people of Wales. Neil McEvoy said Plaid Cymru should

:40:25. > :40:30.have absolutely nothing to do with them. You would not go that far? I

:40:31. > :40:37.wouldn't. People have different views. That is what politics is

:40:38. > :40:44.about. To my mind this is an issue which is contrived by the press and

:40:45. > :40:50.the media. We are talking about it now because it has been ongoing for

:40:51. > :40:55.the last 24 hours. His opposition to cooperation with Labour is no

:40:56. > :40:59.secret. He has been talking about it prolonged time. He is a former

:41:00. > :41:03.Labour councillor and has very strong views about the Labour Party.

:41:04. > :41:08.Hasn't he picked up by the problem here. You provide opposition but

:41:09. > :41:13.other times you are working with them. Wade is Plaid Cymru really

:41:14. > :41:18.stand? Is it compromising your profile? The main problem is that

:41:19. > :41:22.Plaid Cymru is not in government. If we were in government we would be

:41:23. > :41:27.setting the agenda and delivering and moving Wales forward. We are not

:41:28. > :41:30.in that addition unfortunately. We are building on that and the local

:41:31. > :41:36.elections are going to be really important that a stepping stone. You

:41:37. > :41:40.don't have to be propping up Labour? We're not propping up Labour. We are

:41:41. > :41:46.providing effective opposition and we are moving our agenda onwards.

:41:47. > :41:50.The budget has shown that clearly. Our priorities are coming through in

:41:51. > :41:55.that budget and that is through negotiating and talking. If we see a

:41:56. > :42:05.few months down the line that some of those budget proposals are not

:42:06. > :42:08.being delivered we will be the first to be criticising heavily as well.

:42:09. > :42:13.It is a matter of keeping that balance I think, being constructive

:42:14. > :42:18.and working together where we can but also providing that scrutiny and

:42:19. > :42:24.that level of criticism that really needs to happen. The Labour

:42:25. > :42:27.government are not delivering or showing the leadership they should

:42:28. > :42:34.be and it's up to us to point that out. Could it be confusing for the

:42:35. > :42:39.electorate to see Plaid Cymru and Labour hailing a budget deal one day

:42:40. > :42:44.and then the following day you are having a go at them over Europe? I

:42:45. > :42:52.don't think the electorate are that stupid. They know this is party

:42:53. > :42:55.politics. What I'm concerned about is the electorate will look at this

:42:56. > :43:01.and say why are we talking here today about this issue when the most

:43:02. > :43:06.important issue facing Wales is how we're going to deal with Brexit.

:43:07. > :43:11.What is Wales' role going to be in the discussions with the EU? What

:43:12. > :43:18.will our role be within the discussions? Theresa May has said

:43:19. > :43:22.we're not going to get their voice. That is what we're looking at here

:43:23. > :43:27.this weekend. That is our focus. What role can Plaid Cymru play in

:43:28. > :43:33.securing that Wales is represented and we get the best deal. I will ask

:43:34. > :43:42.you quickly about negotiations about Brexit. Isn't it a problem view that

:43:43. > :43:47.your influences marginal on this? It depends on you feeding into the

:43:48. > :43:54.Welsh Government's position and then them feeding into Theresa May's

:43:55. > :43:57.position. I see what you are saying because we're not in government and

:43:58. > :44:02.we need to be in government. If we were in government we would be much

:44:03. > :44:07.stronger than Labour is now in presenting the Welsh point of view

:44:08. > :44:13.and we would be arguing the case for membership of the single market

:44:14. > :44:17.because that is what is best for Wales and the economy of Wales. We

:44:18. > :44:22.are not having that leadership from Labour. We're not sure where they

:44:23. > :44:26.stand. I am really worried the Welsh voices being lost in all these

:44:27. > :44:34.negotiations at the moment. Thank you very much for your time. Back to

:44:35. > :44:38.the studio. Isn't it be us from what we heard earlier from Neil McEvoy

:44:39. > :44:43.and from the guests there that like Camry is finding it very difficult

:44:44. > :44:47.to decide where the dividing line is for an opposition party. Yes and I

:44:48. > :44:51.think they found themselves in a difficult position and to be blunt

:44:52. > :44:59.about it there are two opposing camps. What you have at the moment

:45:00. > :45:04.is a not very comfortable compromise between those two camps. They are

:45:05. > :45:08.not going to coalition felt so they are keeping people like Neil McEvoy

:45:09. > :45:12.onside and they are making deals with Labour keeping people like Sian

:45:13. > :45:21.Gwenllian onside. But that tension is there and it's going to continue.

:45:22. > :45:25.Caxton 's stage -- at some stage the party will have to choose once and

:45:26. > :45:29.for all whether they are going to go into coalition or whether they are

:45:30. > :45:35.going to go into full opposition mode. It is not time critical that

:45:36. > :45:42.decision. But sooner rather than later? If you keep having these

:45:43. > :45:46.arguments surfacing in public they may say this is something we have to

:45:47. > :45:54.resolve. But Plaid Cymru would need to look at the issue. If you're

:45:55. > :45:58.going to break that deal with Labour it has to be over something. You can

:45:59. > :46:02.say we have changed our minds. There has to be an issue on which they

:46:03. > :46:06.break with Labour and think if they were looking for the issue would be

:46:07. > :46:11.somewhere around the government's stance on Brexit.

:46:12. > :46:19.There is a substantial difference between what Plaid Cymru thinks

:46:20. > :46:24.about Brexit and what Carwyn Jones thinks. Ultimately it will be the

:46:25. > :46:27.Assembly group's decision but for Leanne Wood to show leadership on

:46:28. > :46:34.this matter. Do we know where she stands on this? Well, I think the

:46:35. > :46:41.signals Leanne Wood has sent out have been a little confusing, to be

:46:42. > :46:45.honest. As a leader, she is trying to straddle both sides. The

:46:46. > :46:49.difficulty is that straddling both sides can often look like sitting on

:46:50. > :46:54.the fence. She has been trying to send out signals that may be a

:46:55. > :46:59.little muddled. It is something the party is going to resolve and one of

:47:00. > :47:04.the big challenges for her as party leader. And the dynamic in the

:47:05. > :47:07.Assembly, although we heard there is an accusation levelled, we have an

:47:08. > :47:12.obsession with this question, the dynamic in the Assembly, the

:47:13. > :47:20.numbers, makes it a very live issue, doesn't it? Absolutely. We had an

:47:21. > :47:26.Assembly issue is the -- and Assembly election where Labour

:47:27. > :47:31.managed to make of the majority with the sole Liberal Democrat Kirsty

:47:32. > :47:35.Williams. You now have a couple of floating independent members in the

:47:36. > :47:41.sense of Dafydd Elis-Thomas and the Ukip Member floating, so the maths

:47:42. > :47:44.are there for Labour to do day-to-day deals that they would

:47:45. > :47:49.rather have a running deal with Plaid. The question is, how long

:47:50. > :47:55.will Plaid be able to put up with that. It may be the question that is

:47:56. > :48:00.ultimately resolved by a leadership contest within Plaid It is not clear

:48:01. > :48:04.to me whether Leanne Wood intends to leave Plaid Cymru right the way

:48:05. > :48:09.through this Assembly into the next Assembly election when maybe she

:48:10. > :48:15.would look a little shop soiled, little old and tired compared to a

:48:16. > :48:19.new, fresh, Labour leader, because we expect Carwyn Jones to stand

:48:20. > :48:24.down. It might be resolved by the leadership contest. For the time

:48:25. > :48:36.being, thank you. The newest Member of applied Westminster group, Liz

:48:37. > :48:43.Sabha- Roberts made a speech yesterday. I would like to begin my

:48:44. > :48:49.speech with a word of tribute to the families of Aberfan. I know that

:48:50. > :48:52.event has been burnt into the memories of everyone who was old

:48:53. > :48:58.enough to understand what happened on that dreadful day. For younger

:48:59. > :49:04.people, what remains in the memory, and to me, what stays in my mind,

:49:05. > :49:17.who doesn't remember the event, what is burnt on my mind is the second of

:49:18. > :49:22.understanding the shock of how the families of Aberfan were dealt with.

:49:23. > :49:29.We need to remember that. The treatment they got. And for all

:49:30. > :49:36.first, the dignity of those families is something we recall. Let us learn

:49:37. > :49:42.the lessons of Aberfan in our politics, in our dealings with each

:49:43. > :49:49.other. And what John Humphrys said in his report this morning, in

:49:50. > :49:58.closing his report. "We Need to hold onto this." Always, always, we must

:49:59. > :50:10.challenge authority. APPLAUSE.

:50:11. > :50:19.. When I started planning this speech, it was quite obvious to me

:50:20. > :50:25.that as the parliamentary leader would give you a report, I then

:50:26. > :50:33.would concentrate on the occasional other issue, but that's what the

:50:34. > :50:41.plan was. But, in the meantime, of course, my former colleague Dafydd

:50:42. > :50:47.Elis-Thomas said he was going to leave Plaid and be an independent

:50:48. > :50:52.Member. He did that before the constituency committee on Friday.

:50:53. > :50:58.And I would like to note that each and every one of them who was there,

:50:59. > :51:04.members with years, decades, some of them, five decades in the case of

:51:05. > :51:12.some of them, of activity and loyalty towards the members and the

:51:13. > :51:19.party, and enthusiasm towards Dafydd . There was a feeling of shock and

:51:20. > :51:24.disappointment and sadness. The constituency committee appeal to

:51:25. > :51:36.Dafydd Elis-Thomas's conscience. -- appealed. It is only a matter of

:51:37. > :51:46.natural justice. It's a matter of constitutional principle. That is,

:51:47. > :51:49.no one should be a judge in his own case, and that's all I have to say

:51:50. > :52:05.on the matter. APPLAUSE.

:52:06. > :52:11.And, of course, there is such a thing as campaigning and looking

:52:12. > :52:21.back on former days, and aren't we looking forward to a prosperous

:52:22. > :52:28.future for Wales? In Pwllheli in Dwyfor Meirionydd, Plaid Cymru was

:52:29. > :52:32.established. And this year we had the biggest political shock in the

:52:33. > :52:37.British state with the vote to leave the European Union. It was only

:52:38. > :52:45.gradually that the effect of this decision has reached us, only barely

:52:46. > :52:57.four months after the referendum. But the raw emotion of the

:52:58. > :53:00.referendum is still with us and it's important to recognise the

:53:01. > :53:06.importance of this. Didn't we see that regeneration in Scotland two

:53:07. > :53:11.years ago? Of course, although politics can sometimes be a matter

:53:12. > :53:19.of dry constitutional arguing over the dry bones of legislation, it is

:53:20. > :53:25.also a matter of passion. We need to flesh out those dry bones, to bring

:53:26. > :53:31.politics alive. It is through their emotions that people awake, and the

:53:32. > :53:39.Brexit referendum was an emotional time. There were public meetings.

:53:40. > :53:45.This was a time of awakening. It is so much easier to be afraid of

:53:46. > :53:54.something, and Plaid Cymru, our party, must be aware and face that

:53:55. > :53:59.fear in people. I am pleased to say that the troubles of the Brexit

:54:00. > :54:04.referendum have opened the eyes of a group of young people, that there is

:54:05. > :54:16.a younger generation awakening to the need to awaken and become

:54:17. > :54:24.active. They are asking new questions, they are bringing new

:54:25. > :54:31.leaders, there are branches of Plaid Ifanc coming forward. These are the

:54:32. > :54:35.new people of Wales, and we welcome everyone of you, Plaid Ifanc, to our

:54:36. > :54:41.ranks. APPLAUSE.

:54:42. > :54:46.And of course, your parliamentary team, we are back in London after

:54:47. > :54:52.the summer, a new team with a new team of workers. And I want to pay

:54:53. > :55:01.tribute to them, as well. We have said goodbye to Elen Haf Roberts,

:55:02. > :55:07.and I must say, and I can get away with this because I was a new MP,

:55:08. > :55:11.they have really supported me. As a totally new and clueless MP.

:55:12. > :55:16.Fighting a campaign is one thing, believe me, being an MP is something

:55:17. > :55:27.else. And it was so good to have these people behind me. I have a

:55:28. > :55:31.feeling that there was slight disappointment about losing the

:55:32. > :55:41.gravitas of Elfyn Llwyd. He more than anyone helped me deal with the

:55:42. > :55:49.bonkers protocol of Westminster. One Elin, to a great disappointment, has

:55:50. > :55:57.left Westminster to join the team at Cardiff, and of course she will be

:55:58. > :56:01.very welcome there. It is important to have support in Cardiff, as in

:56:02. > :56:09.London. I am pleased now to have a new and excellent team in

:56:10. > :56:15.Westminster. Last year, Osian Lewis came to us, and we have had new

:56:16. > :56:22.members over the summer. We have a new employed officer for a year

:56:23. > :56:31.through the speakers scheme, and Elizabeth Calmeros has joined us for

:56:32. > :56:37.a term. Harry Fletcher, the expert on victim 's rights, is a Member of

:56:38. > :56:42.the team, and he brings years of experience. I welcome each and every

:56:43. > :56:50.one to the committee. I hope some are in the hall, and thank you,

:56:51. > :56:55.thank you all of you. APPLAUSE. And if I go along that angle, I want

:56:56. > :57:03.to thank everyone, but I must thank the people in the office. In order

:57:04. > :57:12.to include everyone. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't true, I couldn't

:57:13. > :57:18.go without your help in the office, that is certain. Of course much of

:57:19. > :57:22.our work in recent months has involved the ongoing saga of

:57:23. > :57:26.scuttling over semantics, grudging consent, missed opportunities and

:57:27. > :57:32.barefaced rollback of powers that is the Wales Bill. Three years after

:57:33. > :57:36.the Silk Commission recommendations, the UK Government finally published

:57:37. > :57:40.its response in the Wales Bill, the fourth piece of primary legislation

:57:41. > :57:46.in 18 years. Disappointingly but hardly surprisingly, the Bill was,

:57:47. > :57:51.and remains, a long way from the practical consensus achieved by

:57:52. > :57:55.Silk. Given that Paul Silke strove to gain consensus across all four

:57:56. > :58:00.parties recommended it was only reasonable to accept expect the

:58:01. > :58:09.Government to accept the report in its entirety. But the Saint Davids

:58:10. > :58:12.Day process, insufficient to be named agreement, tour Silk apart,

:58:13. > :58:18.cherry picking items which fitted the Tory agenda which didn't scare

:58:19. > :58:22.Tory horses and departmental interests than discarded the rest

:58:23. > :58:26.regardless of the needs of Wales. It was once again up to Plaid Cymru to

:58:27. > :58:31.defend our country's interest in the Commons on the Lords. The Plaid

:58:32. > :58:35.Cymru group, I am proud to say, was seen by most commentators to be by

:58:36. > :58:39.far the most effective party in the debates on the Bill, to all effects

:58:40. > :58:50.and purposes, we were the official opposition from Wales. Senedd Hywel

:58:51. > :58:54.Jonathan and I said submitted a number of amendments alongside

:58:55. > :58:58.silent and sometimes empty Labour benches. We forced votes in key

:58:59. > :59:02.areas for Wales such as much resources, policing and the legal

:59:03. > :59:05.jurisdiction, and why we secured the odd victory in some of the overly

:59:06. > :59:10.restrictive drafting, our amendments to bring Wales into line with the

:59:11. > :59:17.Commission's recommendations on the Scotland Act was stubbornly opposed

:59:18. > :59:20.by the Tories. There were also largely ignored by Lebanon once

:59:21. > :59:25.again refused to support our amendments. In the case of the

:59:26. > :59:29.amendment proposing a compromise, distinctly legal jurisdiction, we

:59:30. > :59:32.used exactly the same words as those in the alternative Wales Bill

:59:33. > :59:37.provided by the label Welsh Government. To no avail. Somewhere

:59:38. > :59:42.between so-called Welsh Labour and London Labour, there was a policy

:59:43. > :59:46.somersault, a backward flip. Or perhaps it was Welsh Labour bowing

:59:47. > :59:50.to their Westminster masters. Although the Bill as it stands does

:59:51. > :59:55.indeed devolve some powers, which of course had to be welcomed, powers

:59:56. > :00:00.such as fracking, electoral matters and somewhat as regards energy, it

:00:01. > :00:04.also pulls powers back to Westminster. The Parliamentary team

:00:05. > :00:07.will continue to work on the Bill as it progresses through the House of

:00:08. > :00:10.Lords before it is handed to be Assembly team won the Westminster

:00:11. > :00:16.Government seeks Assembly consent. And I would like to draw to a close

:00:17. > :00:21.by assuring you today that your team in London will not under any

:00:22. > :00:26.circumstances allow Westminster to silence Wales and carry out another

:00:27. > :00:32.at Whitehall power grab. We will work diligently to empower our

:00:33. > :00:39.Parliament, our nation and our people with a leave as we need,

:00:40. > :00:44.leave as we once had, to forge our own future. We will argue over

:00:45. > :00:50.obscure and arcane issues of jurisdiction and constitution,

:00:51. > :00:55.minutiae spawned by the most anorak to political obsessives, and we will

:00:56. > :01:01.do that to build up of body politic for the nation of Wales. But we will

:01:02. > :01:04.never, never accept Westminster sophistry that undermines the

:01:05. > :01:11.direction of our nation's travel to independence. Thank you very much.

:01:12. > :01:17.From one sitting MP to a former MP who now sits in the assembly. We can

:01:18. > :01:25.join Adam Price who is joining us live from London. I remember we had

:01:26. > :01:29.quite a heated debate in our spring conference on this programme when

:01:30. > :01:31.you promised there would be a political earthquake but it didn't

:01:32. > :01:39.quite happen apart from some ground moving in the Rhondda. The

:01:40. > :01:45.earthquake we did have was an unwelcome one, the referendum vote

:01:46. > :01:51.which unfortunately has unleashed this tsunami of uncertainty we are

:01:52. > :01:56.living through at the moment. That is something that all of us in Wales

:01:57. > :02:00.are concerned about and that is why we need the kind of political

:02:01. > :02:03.leadership that sadly we are still lacking at the moment in Cardiff

:02:04. > :02:11.Bay. You deflected that question very well! One of the previous

:02:12. > :02:16.speakers on stage this morning, Neil McEvoy, said your party needs to

:02:17. > :02:20.take a serious look at yourself and he was making reference to the flux

:02:21. > :02:24.of the other parties were in at the time of the assembly election.

:02:25. > :02:33.Therefore you should have done much better than you did. I think Neil

:02:34. > :02:37.McEvoy was referring to some of the areas where we did very well with it

:02:38. > :02:42.was a huge swing from Labour to Plaid Cymru and he was making the

:02:43. > :02:47.point that actually if we were able to repeat those successes in the

:02:48. > :02:52.Rhondda, the near success we had in Blaenau Gwent and in Cardiff West,

:02:53. > :02:56.that shows the platform is they and the appetite is there actually for

:02:57. > :03:01.Plaid Cymru doing well at a national level which means that we can secure

:03:02. > :03:07.the kind of earthquake that I was hoping for at the 2021 elections

:03:08. > :03:15.when finally can get government that is led by a different party. On what

:03:16. > :03:20.you call the unwelcome earthquake, you were on the wrong side of the

:03:21. > :03:24.argument in June. Are you not on the wrong side of the argument this

:03:25. > :03:27.time? You are calling the something which the Welsh people voted against

:03:28. > :03:37.which is membership of the single market. I don't remember seeing that

:03:38. > :03:42.on the ballot. It is a very small ballot vapour and in the small print

:03:43. > :03:47.which might not have appeared on the ballot paper, people are wise enough

:03:48. > :03:52.to know what they were voting for and membership of the single market

:03:53. > :03:58.would have been one of those things. I don't think so. It is very

:03:59. > :04:03.important we are clear about this. The problem we are now dealing with

:04:04. > :04:11.was it was never spelt out what kind of Brexit was going to flow from

:04:12. > :04:18.that decision. I don't believe that every single one of the 52% that

:04:19. > :04:24.voted for Brexit were voting for a hard Brexit. You will have people on

:04:25. > :04:29.the spectrum and some of them who voted to leave would have done so on

:04:30. > :04:32.the basis of staying within the single market which is an option of

:04:33. > :04:38.course. In terms of the Welsh economy, as we know we are one of

:04:39. > :04:42.the most export intensive parts of the UK and the soul leaving the

:04:43. > :04:46.single market is going to have a bigger impact upon jobs and

:04:47. > :04:51.prosperity in Wales than most other parts of the UK. Obviously it is

:04:52. > :04:55.something that is deeply concerning and speaking to businesses in line

:04:56. > :05:00.ball in over the last few days they are deeply worried about the impact

:05:01. > :05:06.and this is not some kind of abstract academic abating point,

:05:07. > :05:09.this is going to affect people's livelihoods and we are right to say

:05:10. > :05:15.we will not accept a hard Brexit being imposed upon us without

:05:16. > :05:21.democratic accountability because it's not the kind of option Wales

:05:22. > :05:25.deserves. What were people voting on then? If they were not voting on

:05:26. > :05:29.leaving the single market -- market or controlling immigration, what was

:05:30. > :05:36.the point of having the referendum in the first place? The referendum

:05:37. > :05:43.was to leave the European Union. The political union. That decision is

:05:44. > :05:53.done. That is clear. The question of what happens next, we have a range

:05:54. > :05:57.of options and there are extreme Brexit here is calling for the

:05:58. > :06:06.hardest possible Brexit. That was never presented as the only shown on

:06:07. > :06:09.the table. They were many people arguing for a Brexit vote which said

:06:10. > :06:13.don't worry we can stay inside the single market and have the best of

:06:14. > :06:20.both worlds. This is the Boris Johnson line, wanting his cake and

:06:21. > :06:23.eating it. This was part of the many falsehoods and lies unfortunately

:06:24. > :06:31.that were at the heart of that campaign. It's not now acceptable to

:06:32. > :06:37.say when we said you could come out of the EU but stay in the single

:06:38. > :06:42.market we didn't mean it. When you are campaigning during the

:06:43. > :06:51.referendum and knocking on doors, were people saying to you we want to

:06:52. > :06:55.control immigration? I had many conversations during the referendum

:06:56. > :07:04.campaign and I think to be honest with you migration came up on two or

:07:05. > :07:11.three occasions. Only two people mentioned controlling immigration

:07:12. > :07:15.during the campaign? Yes, in my case, that was not part of the

:07:16. > :07:17.conversations I was having. It did come up during the assembly

:07:18. > :07:21.campaign. They were more conversations on it then but during

:07:22. > :07:30.the referendum campaign the conversations I had focused more on

:07:31. > :07:33.the economy. I have a constituency which is a big agricultural sector

:07:34. > :07:38.so it tended to focus on questions about the impact for example on our

:07:39. > :07:41.farming sector and what it would mean in terms of access to the

:07:42. > :07:45.single market. Maybe conversations in other parts of Wales and the

:07:46. > :07:50.different profile but in my case it focused very much on the economic

:07:51. > :07:56.impact. Can we turn to the talk that has been this week about a

:07:57. > :07:59.coalition. Leanne Wood has said the party is genuinely torn on the

:08:00. > :08:03.matter. Would I be right in thinking that you are one of the Plaid Cymru

:08:04. > :08:11.Assembly Members who would be in favour of a coalition? I am already

:08:12. > :08:16.on the record and my opinion changed after the Brexit vote because I feel

:08:17. > :08:22.as if we are entering into one of the most uncertain chapters in our

:08:23. > :08:30.history and I felt as a result of that we needed a united front if you

:08:31. > :08:33.like in Wales in order for us to steer the ship through these

:08:34. > :08:40.difficult times. I am in a minority though. I might be a name and I

:08:41. > :08:57.accept that as a Democrat. You make your case within a party. How many

:08:58. > :09:06.other members would be in favour? I am not going to do a roll call. But

:09:07. > :09:11.you would not be the only one would you? I'm not going through a roll

:09:12. > :09:16.call of members. There is a minority view within Plaid Cymru that would

:09:17. > :09:22.like to strengthen and deepen the cooperation. There are some within

:09:23. > :09:26.the party will think we should break the compact and moving to a more

:09:27. > :09:29.conventional out and out opposition role. With the majority of our

:09:30. > :09:34.members and supporters are at the moment is someone in the middle

:09:35. > :09:37.which says we can being sponsored opposition, a constructive

:09:38. > :09:41.opposition and we saw that through the combat with the deal on the

:09:42. > :09:45.budget, that we should be holding the government to account. In areas

:09:46. > :09:49.where we are working for the best interests of Wales the majority of

:09:50. > :09:53.members and supporters feel we have got the balance right at the moment.

:09:54. > :09:58.We are a Democratic party and this is a debate and discussion which

:09:59. > :10:02.will continue and it will be the membership that will decide. That is

:10:03. > :10:08.one of the great things about Plaid Cymru. It is a bottom-up grassroots

:10:09. > :10:11.party. It will be the members who decide are we getting the balance

:10:12. > :10:18.right in terms of holding the government to account and on the

:10:19. > :10:23.other hand making sure we're Wales' national interest requires that we

:10:24. > :10:27.do work together with other parties to secure the best you for Wales. On

:10:28. > :10:32.the budget deal, hailed by you as the best ever secured by an

:10:33. > :10:41.opposition party since the beginning of devolution, it is less than 1% of

:10:42. > :10:44.the total budget. It is 0.79% of everything that the Welsh Government

:10:45. > :10:54.spends. Is that the height of your ambition? Only about two or 3% of a

:10:55. > :11:01.budget changes in any year. Most of the expenditure stays at the

:11:02. > :11:07.existing level. Influences minimal isn't it? In that perspective it was

:11:08. > :11:13.about a third of the changes made in this budget. It is not just me

:11:14. > :11:20.saying it was the biggest 11, that is in -- an objective fact. If you

:11:21. > :11:27.think betting ?20 million extra for mental health is irrelevant, talk to

:11:28. > :11:30.people like I do, my constituents, who suffer with mental health

:11:31. > :11:36.problems. The gap problems in terms of Child and adolescent mental

:11:37. > :11:42.health. This is the core of what democratic politics should be about.

:11:43. > :11:48.Responding to people's needs. Using the power and influence you have to

:11:49. > :11:54.make life better for the citizens of Wales. I am proud of the deal we

:11:55. > :11:59.secured. We started to close the funding gap in and colleges in Wales

:12:00. > :12:05.can pay to England. A ?76 million funding gap and we have got a ?30

:12:06. > :12:09.million increase which is a major step forward in reinvesting in our

:12:10. > :12:14.knowledge base. That is the kind of thing I went into politics for. It

:12:15. > :12:18.is what my country should be all about. Using the levers we have to

:12:19. > :12:26.make life better for the citizens of our country. Adam Price, thank you.

:12:27. > :12:28.The future of steel-making in Wales has been at the forefront of

:12:29. > :12:36.politicians mind for some months. The Tata steel site is in the region

:12:37. > :12:41.represented by Bethan Jenkins and she shared the debate on

:12:42. > :12:45.strengthening the industry. This year has been a tempestuous one for

:12:46. > :12:51.Welsh industry. But since the closure of the last of our minds

:12:52. > :12:54.have we faced times like this. First, the real threat of the

:12:55. > :12:59.closure of the Tata steel works in my own constituency. It has been

:13:00. > :13:05.estimated that our steel industry and supplied the pens on it

:13:06. > :13:10.employers many as 18,000 people in Wales. This would represent a huge

:13:11. > :13:13.loss to Wales. Perhaps when our economy would find it hard to

:13:14. > :13:20.recover from and certainly one that would devastate towns like Port

:13:21. > :13:23.Talbot, Llanelli and Shotton. Of course we have not got to that point

:13:24. > :13:30.yet and we will not, we will fight it. Plaid Cymru's track record is

:13:31. > :13:32.supporting our industry and we need to intensify our support

:13:33. > :13:39.across-the-board. Then there is Brexit. We have been told that with

:13:40. > :13:43.huge amounts of trade going to Europe how will this affect our

:13:44. > :13:49.export earnings? Will it lead to job losses or will the weak pound offset

:13:50. > :13:53.any of those expected losses? And could we find markets elsewhere in

:13:54. > :13:56.the world? Here to discuss all of that with me are three experts in

:13:57. > :14:04.their own right. Firstly we have Adam Price who is the party's shadow

:14:05. > :14:08.finance and economy spokesperson. Adam spent time between parliaments

:14:09. > :14:13.in the field of innovation so he can provide you with well experienced

:14:14. > :14:18.knowledge in this field. As can Nigel Copner on the right of me.

:14:19. > :14:23.Many of you will know Nigel from his heroic efforts in nearly capturing

:14:24. > :14:32.Blaenau Gwent four Plaid Cymru in May's assembly elections. Next time.

:14:33. > :14:40.He is also the founder member of research and innovation centre. The

:14:41. > :14:44.chair of electronics at the University of South Wales and has

:14:45. > :14:52.worked in Silicon Valley. And lastly we have Scott Pansy who is a

:14:53. > :14:57.fourth-generation steelworker. As a shop steward he can also bring his

:14:58. > :15:05.union if as well as a view from inside the industry. If you could

:15:06. > :15:11.all please welcome our guests. I am going to start with Nigel. We are

:15:12. > :15:21.all talking about Brexit but we can not talk about it. What is Brexit

:15:22. > :15:26.mean for Welsh industry? We were all taken by surprise with the result.

:15:27. > :15:30.We are concerned about the convergence funding loss which is

:15:31. > :15:33.half a billion a year to Wales. Although that money might not have

:15:34. > :15:40.been spent in the best way to encourage businesses it was there.

:15:41. > :15:48.We are also aware that Wales exports about 30 billion a year, 35% to

:15:49. > :15:54.Europe. Is that going to be jeopardised? Do we go for a soft or

:15:55. > :16:00.hard Brexit? I refer you back to the great depression when Hoover brought

:16:01. > :16:03.in a tariff and created a trade war and the tariffs escalated as a

:16:04. > :16:09.result the recession turned into a great depression.

:16:10. > :16:17.There is no doubt we need trade agreements within the single market

:16:18. > :16:23.after Brexit. It is widely recognised, with all the concerns we

:16:24. > :16:28.have around Brexit, one of the key issues for the economy going forward

:16:29. > :16:34.is the uncertainty. It is the lack of confidence. That overrides most

:16:35. > :16:40.things. And I think it is absolutely essential that Plaid takes a lead to

:16:41. > :16:44.ensure we have the courage, a coherent plan, and create certainty

:16:45. > :16:48.in the transitioning, moving out of Europe. That is absolutely

:16:49. > :16:51.essential, and within that I obviously support the soft Brexit

:16:52. > :17:01.route and being part of the single market. Thank you, Adam. Obviously,

:17:02. > :17:11.we are a very export intensive economy. We are almost unique in

:17:12. > :17:17.having such an incredibly large trade surplus in goods at a time, of

:17:18. > :17:21.course, when the UK as a whole has a massive trade deficit and has done

:17:22. > :17:29.over many decades. We are still positive exporters, which

:17:30. > :17:36.contributes about 10% to our overall GPA. So having a hit on that would

:17:37. > :17:41.have an immediate effect in terms of Welsh prosperity. We must protect

:17:42. > :17:45.that position, which is why being inside the single market is -- is of

:17:46. > :17:50.such vital strategic importance to Welsh industry. In practical terms,

:17:51. > :17:55.if we are outside the customs union, then you face tariffs and everything

:17:56. > :18:00.else, and by the way, you are in the WTO then, which is actually a far

:18:01. > :18:04.more -- far more likely to challenge things like subsidies. People think

:18:05. > :18:09.if you are outside the EU you don't have state aid problems. The World

:18:10. > :18:13.Trade Organisation has state aid rules which are much more stringent

:18:14. > :18:17.than those in the EU. The EU have been able to carve out of position

:18:18. > :18:22.in relation to those, and if you are not in the single market, what

:18:23. > :18:26.happens, practically, as an exporter, your goods will arrive at

:18:27. > :18:32.the borders of the European Union, and because they do not conform to

:18:33. > :18:40.the regulations and standards, whether a piece of electronics

:18:41. > :18:43.Raqqa, etc, than they will be held back for two or three weeks possibly

:18:44. > :18:48.while they are sent off to be tested. Every batch would have to be

:18:49. > :18:52.tested by the National standards Institute of the country in

:18:53. > :18:58.question, and does Nigel will know, we live in a world of just in time

:18:59. > :19:03.logistics. When you are involved in these very, very intricate

:19:04. > :19:06.international global supply chains, actually having something waiting in

:19:07. > :19:12.some port in the Netherlands for three weeks, you are not going to

:19:13. > :19:16.get that contract again. If you are an intermediate supplier, as a small

:19:17. > :19:22.manufacturing firm, you can forget it. Why would the original equipment

:19:23. > :19:26.Manufacturer by themselves that kind of headache? And all the customs

:19:27. > :19:31.papers of course would have to be done on top of that. It will be a

:19:32. > :19:34.massive headache to every export business in Wales, and we would take

:19:35. > :19:39.a massive hit on our prosperity, which is why we have two insist that

:19:40. > :19:43.Wales remains within the single market. And if the deal is being

:19:44. > :19:48.offered to Scotland and Northern Ireland as has been suggested, maybe

:19:49. > :19:52.we need to create a Celtic union, where, if England wants to be

:19:53. > :19:58.outside the single market, than I am a Democrat, that is a choice they

:19:59. > :20:01.make, and certainly if there is an opportunity for us to bring me on

:20:02. > :20:10.side we should take it as well -- bring Theresa May on side. This is

:20:11. > :20:17.Adam's Way! Moving to Scott. What does Brexit mean for us? It has

:20:18. > :20:21.added more uncertainty to an already difficult situation for us. Did many

:20:22. > :20:26.steelworkers vote for Brexit, your colleagues? That was a worrying

:20:27. > :20:32.thing, we had Government and trade unions advising us all to vote

:20:33. > :20:38.Remain, but surprisingly, a lot of steel workers voted out. They have

:20:39. > :20:43.their own reasons, but some of them still regret their decision, but it

:20:44. > :20:49.is adding uncertainty to us. What was alarming to me was, the

:20:50. > :20:56.prestigious product we produce is for Nissan in nota motives. That is

:20:57. > :21:01.what we are proud of and where our profit margins. 62% in Sunderland

:21:02. > :21:05.voted to Leave but 8000 work in the Nissan plant. Nissan have said if we

:21:06. > :21:08.are not in the single market they would look to leave Britain which

:21:09. > :21:12.would have a knock-on effect for steel, but that is an example of

:21:13. > :21:15.manufacturing as a whole. These companies, once we are not in the

:21:16. > :21:19.single market they will not think twice, they will be gone. This is

:21:20. > :21:25.really worrying from the steel point of view, but for the UK and Wales,

:21:26. > :21:30.we are in real trouble there. Also from steel, a large present about --

:21:31. > :21:33.percentage of the steel we produce is exported to Europe so we use the

:21:34. > :21:40.single market and could lose all those orders. Again it is adding

:21:41. > :21:46.more uncertainty. We don't know what the future holds, but I agree, I

:21:47. > :21:51.think we need to stay in the single market. That was Bethan Jenkins and

:21:52. > :21:55.others on the future of the steel industry here in Wales. Our

:21:56. > :22:00.political editor Nick Servini if our eyes and ears at the conference.

:22:01. > :22:04.Good morning, Nick. Pretty strong words this morning both ways on this

:22:05. > :22:11.possibility of a coalition between Plaid and Labour. There have been,

:22:12. > :22:16.and I think it will be an interesting day today. Fair to say,

:22:17. > :22:22.slightly muted atmosphere here so far. A range of factors, probably a

:22:23. > :22:24.reflection of uncertainty surrounding Brexit, also probably

:22:25. > :22:28.reflecting on the fact that we haven't heard from Leanne Wood yet.

:22:29. > :22:32.This time last year at this stage of the conference we had had a speech

:22:33. > :22:36.from Leanne Wood in Aberystwyth and Nicola Sturgeon here addressing

:22:37. > :22:43.Plaid Cymru. None of that yet, we will have Leanne Wood this

:22:44. > :22:45.afternoon. She didn't want to clash with the Aberfan commemorations

:22:46. > :22:54.yesterday, understandably I suppose. A lot of action here today and you

:22:55. > :22:56.are right, it kicked off with Neal McEvoy, an Assembly Member who

:22:57. > :23:00.brings something different to the party, there is no one quite like

:23:01. > :23:05.Neal McEvoy in Plaid Cymru are possibly ever has been in the past,

:23:06. > :23:10.and with regards to the issue of the coalition, let me give you a very

:23:11. > :23:14.flavour of some of the things he said. He talks about a small

:23:15. > :23:19.minority within Plaid Cymru interested in going into coalition

:23:20. > :23:24.with Labour, and quotes "They would take one for the team." But he is

:23:25. > :23:31.very much on the opposite side of the fence on this, saying they

:23:32. > :23:38.should grade them down, challenge Labour, so at the moment we have

:23:39. > :23:40.this situation where the party is in opposition, abrasively so,

:23:41. > :23:44.aggressive in its criticism, but at the same time striking deals with

:23:45. > :23:48.Labour and as we saw a couple of days ago, the biggest budget deal

:23:49. > :23:52.the party has ever done with Labour, but Neil McEvoy is the view that

:23:53. > :23:57.Plaid should have nothing to do with Labour, and they are not, in his

:23:58. > :24:04.words, "A pressure group designed to move Labour money around the system

:24:05. > :24:10.so fundamental reappraisal of where the current situation is. So the

:24:11. > :24:14.question is, is he representative? No doubt you are talking about it

:24:15. > :24:20.already and will lead out throughout the day, how representative he is of

:24:21. > :24:27.. If you look at conference, in terms of the motions going across

:24:28. > :24:30.before, there aren't a huge stage of motions at the moment pushing

:24:31. > :24:35.towards coalitions and there aren't a huge swathe of motions in the Neil

:24:36. > :24:38.McEvoy direction, either. Wanting to roll back and have nothing to do

:24:39. > :24:44.with Labour. Which would suggest maybe Leanne Wood's position at the

:24:45. > :24:50.moment, and the current leadership, is broadly reflective of where the

:24:51. > :24:54.party years. But of course that could change. Primarily, I think,

:24:55. > :24:59.because of Brexit, and that really is what everyone is talking about.

:25:00. > :25:05.And on Brexit I'm sure Leanne Wood will flush them of these ideas out

:25:06. > :25:12.this afternoon -- flesh out. Key to Plaid 's stances maintaining

:25:13. > :25:15.membership of the single market and also the Welsh Government or Wales

:25:16. > :25:23.having a representative at the top table when it comes to negotiations.

:25:24. > :25:31.The survey would suggest no on both accounts, no says, or no membership

:25:32. > :25:35.of the single market, and no reputation for Wales on the top

:25:36. > :25:42.table. Do they have a plan B? That is right, it is very difficult. I

:25:43. > :25:47.think the call to be on the top table, to some extent, expected. The

:25:48. > :25:51.other call is that a real fight for the constitutional side of things

:25:52. > :25:55.with the fear of a power grab, with the powers that come from Brussels,

:25:56. > :25:59.when they go to Westminster, do they go to Cardiff or not? And of course

:26:00. > :26:11.the single market and membership of it. Sian Gwenllian this morning, AM

:26:12. > :26:15.for Arfon, was talking about the difference between Plaid and Labour

:26:16. > :26:20.on this. It is one of the most divisive issues in terms of the post

:26:21. > :26:23.Brexit responds in Welsh politics at the moment, so Carwyn Jones's

:26:24. > :26:31.fundamental premise, and I think he is similar to Theresia me on this,

:26:32. > :26:35.Wales 52% Leave, if it tells us anything, it is a message from the

:26:36. > :26:40.public to politicians that something needs to be done about immigration.

:26:41. > :26:43.That of course sends you down a route which means continued

:26:44. > :26:49.membership of the single market looks very difficult. And so, Plaid

:26:50. > :26:55.are, and I have heard it so many times yesterday, speech after

:26:56. > :27:01.speech, Rhun Ap Iorwerth, Hywel Williams, staking this claim of

:27:02. > :27:05.membership of the single market, it is a fundamental belief for Plaid in

:27:06. > :27:09.the way they will approach these negotiations, but of course it does

:27:10. > :27:13.mean giving up control on immigration, so then, inevitably,

:27:14. > :27:18.you ask the question, are they in denial, Abe in touch with the

:27:19. > :27:22.reality of the majority of people in Wales who surely, when they voted to

:27:23. > :27:28.leave the EU, did so knowing full well that it would entail leaving

:27:29. > :27:32.the single market as well? And what Leanne Wood has been saying, and no

:27:33. > :27:38.doubt will reflect in his speech later, was that that there was all

:27:39. > :27:43.kinds of reasons people voted to Leave, paddling pools in your local

:27:44. > :27:47.area, disillusionment with politics and immigration as well, but to

:27:48. > :27:51.somehow pick out immigration as the main area that needs to be dealt

:27:52. > :27:56.with is, in her assessment of it, the wrong thing to do, so as a

:27:57. > :28:02.result, retaining single market membership is still doable. The

:28:03. > :28:05.problem she will have is, this idea that immigration is equivalent to

:28:06. > :28:11.issues like austerity and other concerns, when she knows, and you

:28:12. > :28:15.and I were out with cameras in the referendum campaign, so many people

:28:16. > :28:18.in Wales were talking about concerns about immigration. Nick, thank you,

:28:19. > :28:26.you have teed up our next contributor very neatly, because...

:28:27. > :28:32.I thought we were going to talking about Brexit. We will go elsewhere.

:28:33. > :28:37.Plaid Cymru happened the first time two police and crime commissioners,

:28:38. > :28:43.Arfon Jones in North Wales, and in his speech yesterday he outlined his

:28:44. > :28:47.priorities. TRANSLATION: Reducing reoffending is one of the main areas

:28:48. > :28:53.of policing, and in order to do that, we must work in partnership to

:28:54. > :29:00.prevent crime. One of the pioneering projects in this respect is a

:29:01. > :29:04.project to help children where their parents are imprisoned. Resettlement

:29:05. > :29:09.of prisoners back in the community, and preventing reoffending, it

:29:10. > :29:17.depends very much on the help offered to children and families. If

:29:18. > :29:22.they can re-establish relationships, they are less likely to offend

:29:23. > :29:29.again. There is another good reason for helping the children of

:29:30. > :29:34.prisoners. 65% of children with a father in prison go on to offend

:29:35. > :29:39.themselves. Children with a parent in prison are also twice as likely

:29:40. > :29:44.as other children to have mental health problems. And also, they are

:29:45. > :29:50.less likely to do well in school, and more likely to be excluded.

:29:51. > :29:59.There is an opportunity to break this vicious circle, and we shall

:30:00. > :30:03.seek to ensure that services are available to break this. One of the

:30:04. > :30:12.best example of this is what is going on in Parc Prison in Bridgend.

:30:13. > :30:17.In conclusion, policing is changing all the time. Technology changes

:30:18. > :30:21.mean we can respond quickly and rapidly, but it also means they run

:30:22. > :30:25.new sorts of crime, cyber crime and so on. Things have changed so much

:30:26. > :30:35.that the likelihood of suffering from online crime is more than I

:30:36. > :30:44.would call traditional crime. I believe strongly that policing must

:30:45. > :30:49.move with the times, and we must therefore move with the times in

:30:50. > :30:53.technology to enable our front-line staff. People want to see police

:30:54. > :30:57.officers in the community. This gives them more confidence, although

:30:58. > :31:03.of course, there is a lot of work to be done in technology as well. In a

:31:04. > :31:08.time of cuts, we must all use our time wisely, well and effectively,

:31:09. > :31:10.without forgetting the things that are really important to our

:31:11. > :31:16.communities. Thank you for listening.

:31:17. > :31:24.Everybody else is talking about Brexit so let's talk about it for a

:31:25. > :31:28.few minutes. On the Plaid Cymru wish list it seems as though little of it

:31:29. > :31:33.will be delivered by the UK Government. Membership of the single

:31:34. > :31:38.market and a seat at the top table. How problematic is that? I think you

:31:39. > :31:44.have to go back one step before that to realise why Plaid Cymru is taking

:31:45. > :31:51.the stands it is. Regardless of the economic arguments the point is the

:31:52. > :31:55.party asked to accept the result of the referendum but they are also

:31:56. > :31:59.representing their supporters and if you look at the academic work that

:32:00. > :32:03.has been done since the referendum what you'll find is that Plaid Cymru

:32:04. > :32:17.voters were overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the UK -- in the EU.

:32:18. > :32:22.So they are representing if you like the remain constituency in Wales and

:32:23. > :32:26.are looking for the minimum possible Brexit because that is what this

:32:27. > :32:30.borders on. Carwyn Jones on the other hand is dealing with a

:32:31. > :32:36.situation where yes the majority of Labour voters vote to remain but

:32:37. > :32:38.there was also a substantial minority particularly in traditional

:32:39. > :32:42.Labour strongholds who voted to leave and that is why his stance has

:32:43. > :32:47.been driven by a different political set of questions. So Plaid Cymru

:32:48. > :32:53.pitching themselves as the party for the remain as, not only depending on

:32:54. > :32:56.their own voters to stay loyal to them but also trying to entice

:32:57. > :33:02.people from outside the party in because of the stands they are

:33:03. > :33:08.taking? That's right but again when needs to take a bit of care because

:33:09. > :33:12.despite the polls and the academic work shows that Plaid Cymru voters

:33:13. > :33:15.were in favour of remain you have to look at some of the places where

:33:16. > :33:19.Plaid Cymru did very well like the Rhondda and Blaenau Gwent in the

:33:20. > :33:25.assembly elections aren't those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave.

:33:26. > :33:33.So it's not quite as straightforward as it appeals -- appears from the

:33:34. > :33:36.research. Plaid Cymru are not in the sort of quandary that the

:33:37. > :33:39.Conservatives or Labour Ardennes where they have a large minority of

:33:40. > :33:46.their voters that they need to appease. And to what extent is

:33:47. > :33:54.Leanne Wood's hand that much weaker than that of Nicola Sturgeon bearing

:33:55. > :33:58.in mind the result in Wales was very different to the one in Scotland.

:33:59. > :34:03.Leanne Wood's and is incredibly weak. Nicola Sturgeon is the First

:34:04. > :34:07.Minister and is running the government and she is running the

:34:08. > :34:13.government of the country which voted to remain. So there is no

:34:14. > :34:18.comparison between that and a leader of a party that is not in government

:34:19. > :34:22.who is trying to influence a Welsh Government which does not have a

:34:23. > :34:26.very strong hand anyway because of the way Wales voted in the

:34:27. > :34:29.referendum. She is in a weak position but Plaid Cymru would say

:34:30. > :34:32.we can't sing nothing about this, we have to see what we think. The

:34:33. > :34:38.accusation levelled at them is that they are shedding their ears to the

:34:39. > :34:43.concerns of people on the doorstep about free movement of people. We

:34:44. > :34:48.heard Adam Price said he only had two conversations about the matter

:34:49. > :34:52.during the referendum campaign. You can say they were shutting very as

:34:53. > :35:03.and there is an element of that but on the other hand it was 52 against

:35:04. > :35:10.48 and you can't assume that all 52 voted that way because of

:35:11. > :35:15.immigration. That is not the case. So there is wriggle room for the

:35:16. > :35:19.party but there is a question come next May when we have local

:35:20. > :35:23.elections of how this sort of stance will go down in places that Plaid

:35:24. > :35:27.Cymru controlled the past like Rhondda Cynon Taff and Caerphilly.

:35:28. > :35:33.It will be interesting to see the Ukip fills some of the space Plaid

:35:34. > :35:36.Cymru took in those areas. We have heard from one council leader and

:35:37. > :35:42.there is another one on stage now, the leader of Gwynedd cancel. --

:35:43. > :35:59.cancel. The period has been rich for

:36:00. > :36:06.Gwynedd, four Plaid Cymru and for Wales. And I believe that experience

:36:07. > :36:12.from this period of government that it holds us to consider. The first

:36:13. > :36:19.thing to stresses that the ambition of all political parties at whatever

:36:20. > :36:23.level is to be in government. That in order to implement a programme of

:36:24. > :36:29.policies which will create a better world for our citizens. We make a

:36:30. > :36:36.difference by leading and winning power and acting. Being in

:36:37. > :36:46.opposition can be comfortable in short -- I am sure. And a nice place

:36:47. > :36:51.to be but in Gwynedd we have never decided that this is our aim. We

:36:52. > :37:03.want to be in power. It has not been easy. But government should not be

:37:04. > :37:06.easy. It means being brave, being enterprising, being creative,

:37:07. > :37:13.smashing old systems and building new ones. Discussing politics and

:37:14. > :37:20.ideas is completely meaningless unless it leads to a programme of

:37:21. > :37:28.action in government. And governing for the majority. Not a minority. A

:37:29. > :37:33.discourse with the whole population, speaking with everyone not just the

:37:34. > :37:40.selected few. Not campaigning for the benefits of any elite but

:37:41. > :37:46.creating a context where everyone can be included and fulfil their

:37:47. > :37:54.potential. The danger with political parties always is for them to speak

:37:55. > :37:59.with ourselves and ourselves only. To build a consensus around the

:38:00. > :38:05.truth that we create campaigning and creating policies that comfort us

:38:06. > :38:13.that the reality of life can be quite different. Our intention is to

:38:14. > :38:18.recognise the contribution of everyone and create a Gwynedd for

:38:19. > :38:21.tomorrow, a Gwynedd which recognises the traditions of yesterday but

:38:22. > :38:28.which is out also in order to create the new Gwynedd. To continue to

:38:29. > :38:34.develop and step forward confidently we need to reinvent ourselves

:38:35. > :38:44.continually, to challenge ourselves, to question ourselves and to create

:38:45. > :38:50.new traditions. We must look at the mirror of Gwynedd that we are

:38:51. > :38:57.seeking to create. Just and fair for everyone regardless. We define

:38:58. > :39:03.ourselves as a Plaid Cymru council in Gwynedd according to what we are

:39:04. > :39:13.in favour not what we are against, what we seek to build in Gwynedd. We

:39:14. > :39:19.don't want a fort in the West but a lighthouse for the whole of Wales.

:39:20. > :39:23.Gwynedd today is a collection of communities which is a microcosm of

:39:24. > :39:26.the rest of Wales. Communities in needs, and the pressure, but

:39:27. > :39:33.communities are full of opportunity to create hope we must not satisfied

:39:34. > :39:38.ourselves with recreating the past but show the possibilities of a new

:39:39. > :39:48.world. Conservatism is not the basis for our future but enterprise and

:39:49. > :39:54.confidence and all this with our basic belief in justice. That is why

:39:55. > :39:58.we have pushed the boundaries of the Welsh language in Gwynedd in order

:39:59. > :40:05.to create a sustainable future for it. Since its establishment about

:40:06. > :40:11.6000 children and young people have been through our pioneering language

:40:12. > :40:20.centres creating new Welsh speakers. Yes, 6000. That is the third largest

:40:21. > :40:25.town in Gwynedd by now. The first centre was established in the 1980s

:40:26. > :40:27.and since then they have made a key contribution to ensuring that

:40:28. > :40:33.children and young people who don't speak Welsh have an opportunity to

:40:34. > :40:36.embrace the language. And with the challenge of promoting the use of

:40:37. > :40:41.Welsh amongst young children and young people in our schools the

:40:42. > :40:46.Gwynedd schools language charter was established. This is a scheme which

:40:47. > :40:50.gives ownership of the use of the language socially with the children

:40:51. > :40:56.and the young people themselves forming it. Creating a context which

:40:57. > :41:03.showed an of all backgrounds can feel confident in speaking. Welsh

:41:04. > :41:12.will succeed as we create a positive and hopeful context for it. Where

:41:13. > :41:19.everyone can be a champion whatever his or her skills audibility.

:41:20. > :41:23.Indeed, some of the non-Welsh speakers are some of the best

:41:24. > :41:31.champions as they support their children in becoming bilingual. His

:41:32. > :41:34.-- the history of Welsh and D would be very different word of the

:41:35. > :41:41.contribution of our schools, governors, teachers appearance and

:41:42. > :41:45.children. We have to thank them all but we need to be thankful also that

:41:46. > :41:51.we have had the opportunity to implement progressive policies,

:41:52. > :42:00.policies that some other councils in Wales are now emanating. Gwynedd has

:42:01. > :42:04.adopted the language as the mainland which of administration, as a major

:42:05. > :42:14.employer we have an opportunity to focus on this. The Welsh line with

:42:15. > :42:19.will become alive as we use it in all situations. This is how to

:42:20. > :42:24.create a natural community for the Welshman which with the positive

:42:25. > :42:31.support for workforce at all levels across the council. And it's not a

:42:32. > :42:38.matter of making the mainland and institution but rather a recognition

:42:39. > :42:41.that our workforce of 6000 live in our communities and make a key

:42:42. > :42:47.contribution to the future of the county. Ensuring advantageous fact

:42:48. > :42:50.is for the language within the Council has an influence on the

:42:51. > :42:59.status of the language in our towns and villages. It creates confidence

:43:00. > :43:06.and expectations. We say to the rest of the public sector in the county

:43:07. > :43:11.to follow our example and implement policies to promote the language in

:43:12. > :43:16.all aspects of the institutions. Gwynedd cancel can achieve much but

:43:17. > :43:20.we can achieve even more in partnership with the rest of the

:43:21. > :43:26.public sector locally and similarly with the rest of the councillors of

:43:27. > :43:31.Wales. Our message is that we can make a difference, we can be

:43:32. > :43:37.champions for the Welsh and which, you can create hope for the Welsh

:43:38. > :43:42.and which. It is possible to create a change for the better and if the

:43:43. > :43:46.Welsh language is to continue as the mainland which of our communities as

:43:47. > :43:54.well as in the council certainly the challenge facing us is to ensure

:43:55. > :43:57.infrastructure for the language and create those social conditions that

:43:58. > :44:03.we need in order for the language to prosper and ensure a supply of

:44:04. > :44:12.affordable housing, varied good quality jobs to promote a vibrant

:44:13. > :44:15.social life. The leader of Gwynedd cancel their talking live on stage.

:44:16. > :44:26.Let's head out of the conference hall for a minute. Let's see who our

:44:27. > :44:29.reporter is chatting to. I am joined by two more familiar faces from

:44:30. > :44:34.Plaid Cymru, Jill Evans a member of the European Parliament and the

:44:35. > :44:40.Griffith the Assembly Member and spokesman on education. Let's talk

:44:41. > :44:46.about the party's stance on wrecks it. Let's have a personal take from

:44:47. > :44:49.you on what it's been like being a member of the European Parliament

:44:50. > :44:54.from the UK and appeared yet since the referendum. In the sense that I

:44:55. > :45:02.am still there representing the people of Wales and will be until

:45:03. > :45:05.the day the UK leaves the EU, the whole focus of my work has not

:45:06. > :45:11.changed which is to get the best possible deal for the people of

:45:12. > :45:18.Wales from the EU. But the whole context has changed. Within the

:45:19. > :45:21.Parliament certainly there is a lot of goodwill and a lot of support and

:45:22. > :45:27.people are very sad that Wales will be leaving. There is certainly no

:45:28. > :45:34.animosity. Do you feel marginalised? Not that the moment. I think people

:45:35. > :45:38.want to still include Wales and summary people have said to me that

:45:39. > :45:45.Europe won't be the same without Wales. The value our input, not just

:45:46. > :45:50.what Wales has got out of Europe but also what we have contributed. I

:45:51. > :46:00.think sadness is the overwhelming feeling.

:46:01. > :46:06.In terms of the Brexit negotiations you are clear that you would like

:46:07. > :46:12.the Welsh Government to make the argument to stay as a Member of the

:46:13. > :46:15.single market. Tied up with that is continued free movement of people.

:46:16. > :46:21.Is that your interpretation, would that remain at the same level of

:46:22. > :46:25.movement of people around the single market? I can't see a situation

:46:26. > :46:33.where full membership of that market wouldn't would be allowed -- would

:46:34. > :46:38.be allowed without allowing other aspects and you can't have your cake

:46:39. > :46:43.and eat it. That is the analogy. I feel passionately in terms of

:46:44. > :46:48.education particularly, we have 5500 EU students in Wales accounting for

:46:49. > :46:54.nearly 7500 full-time equivalent jobs in Wales so not only on a

:46:55. > :46:57.cultural level in terms of academic contribution, but economically as

:46:58. > :47:03.well, let's think about the 7500 jobs in Wales because of those EU

:47:04. > :47:06.students. So you say maintaining the same levels of EU immigration would

:47:07. > :47:13.be a good thing, but doesn't that go against what people voted on from

:47:14. > :47:18.Wales in the referendum on leaving the EU? I think the reasons people

:47:19. > :47:24.voted are very complex, but there is no doubt that the free movement of

:47:25. > :47:28.people as benefited Wales. But people were concerned about

:47:29. > :47:34.immigration, weren't they? People are concerned about immigration, but

:47:35. > :47:38.I don't think we had a real debate about the problems there are in

:47:39. > :47:43.Wales, and there are many problems, of course, there are very poor

:47:44. > :47:47.communities in Wales, and they feel disenfranchised, and they were

:47:48. > :47:53.making a protest against the establishment. But the solution to

:47:54. > :47:59.those problems is not in restricting free movement or even necessarily

:48:00. > :48:03.concerned with Europe. You might be accused, really, if ignoring the

:48:04. > :48:09.message given by the Welsh people here on immigration. You are saying

:48:10. > :48:12.you know better, that those concerns shouldn't be addressed. I am not

:48:13. > :48:19.saying we know better. I am saying if you look at the statistics and

:48:20. > :48:24.the facts, immigrants make net contribution to the tax take in this

:48:25. > :48:26.country so off we are seriously need to understand the implications to

:48:27. > :48:32.close our borders the way some people would like us to do. I am not

:48:33. > :48:36.willing to do that because I believe it would have a huge impact, not

:48:37. > :48:40.just economically but the way we provide many services in this

:48:41. > :48:45.country. So it wasn't on the ballot paper and neither was leaving the

:48:46. > :48:48.single market, by the way. So let's not jump to conclusions. I

:48:49. > :48:52.understand there are concerns but I would also say, look beyond the

:48:53. > :48:56.headlines on the sound bites, because there are real issues at

:48:57. > :49:03.stake. Can I ask you both briefly about an issue that has been

:49:04. > :49:05.discussed on the main stage this morning, that of coalition and your

:49:06. > :49:15.relationship with Labour. Neil McEvoy doesn't want cooperation at

:49:16. > :49:19.the moment or coalition, Llyr Gruffydd, where do you stand? At the

:49:20. > :49:22.moment I am happy with the arrangement we have. We need an open

:49:23. > :49:25.mind because a lot is changing very quickly politically in this country

:49:26. > :49:29.at the moment so we mustn't rule it out, but if you look at what we

:49:30. > :49:33.managed to deliver at the moment, more than any opposition since

:49:34. > :49:37.devolution, we will do all rights. Jill Evans, would you be happy to

:49:38. > :49:42.see coalition if that's what circumstances demanded? Our main

:49:43. > :49:45.duty as The Party of Wales is to assure that in these really

:49:46. > :49:50.uncertain times we get the best possible deal for Wales, the people,

:49:51. > :49:54.the communities of Wales and the future, and so we always have to

:49:55. > :49:59.look at that and how best we deliver that. Jill Evans, Llyr Gruffydd,

:50:00. > :50:05.thank you very much. Back to you. Thank you, Bethan. Plenty more in

:50:06. > :50:12.our programme this afternoon. Brexit and speculation over a snapped UK

:50:13. > :50:19.general election were themes for the Arfon MP Hywel Williams who spoke

:50:20. > :50:23.yesterday. The Tories are always talking about patriotism and the

:50:24. > :50:27.values that are above all that, but there is nothing patriotic or

:50:28. > :50:33.virtuous about the way they behave. And I will say this in a language

:50:34. > :50:38.they will understand. Despite all their fine words, it is unpatriotic

:50:39. > :50:41.for the Tories to undermine jobs, economic growth, equality and fair

:50:42. > :50:46.treatment, and the future life chances of the people of these

:50:47. > :50:51.islands, through their xenophobic rhetoric and there are professional

:50:52. > :50:58.pursuits of a hard Brexit. Then they divisive nationalists. Brexit means

:50:59. > :51:04.Brexit, says the Prime Minister. We will secure the best deal possible.

:51:05. > :51:09.One slogan as meaningless as next. Last night, she said that until we

:51:10. > :51:14.leave, Britain will remain at the heart of the EU. All the more

:51:15. > :51:19.effectively to tear it out, I suppose. In fact, with Scotland,

:51:20. > :51:24.unsurprisingly, heading for a UK exit anyway, the Tory position now

:51:25. > :51:30.seems to be for dumping the single market, and making our own trade

:51:31. > :51:33.deals. Well, what about Wales and our ?5 billion trade surplus? How

:51:34. > :51:40.many hundreds of deals, and with whom first? With Wales's

:51:41. > :51:47.international markets or a cosy setup for the City of London? How

:51:48. > :51:51.long will this take? The thing-mac- Canada trade deal negotiation went

:51:52. > :51:57.on for seven years, now scuppered by the Belgian region of one linear --

:51:58. > :52:05.be you- Canada trade deal. But the Tories reckon they can secure a new

:52:06. > :52:11.deal in just two years. Conference, this is a regime of crisis. The

:52:12. > :52:17.pound plummeting, inflation looming, income static, employment uncertain,

:52:18. > :52:21.productivity low, investment withheld, and the very integrity of

:52:22. > :52:24.the United Kingdom in peril, and in all of this, the Tories are

:52:25. > :52:31.untroubled by their friends in the elite media. At the other end of the

:52:32. > :52:37.scale, let's just look at the simple, possibly real, example. Say

:52:38. > :52:41.you are a farmer and you want to buy a new tractor. Farm payments will

:52:42. > :52:47.cover you until 2020, but you reasonably need to look ahead beyond

:52:48. > :52:52.2020. Will there be money after 2020? Will it be paid per hectare or

:52:53. > :52:55.per animal? Will Wales get a share based on the start of the work --

:52:56. > :53:02.size of the Welsh farming economy, that is the need for Miller, or on

:53:03. > :53:12.the Barnett formula, around 5% based on population? Who will decide,

:53:13. > :53:15.London or Cardiff? Will the Welsh family farm be treated on the same

:53:16. > :53:17.basis as the vast agribusinesses of East Anglia? Now, Dubai that

:53:18. > :53:22.tractor? And if you don't, what does that mean for the tractor seller and

:53:23. > :53:25.the tractor maker, and the steelmakers from Port Talbot we

:53:26. > :53:30.heard from this morning, and the engine plant and everybody else? Not

:53:31. > :53:35.so simple example after all, but there are no answers. Mrs may has

:53:36. > :53:40.said she doesn't intend to give us a running commentary. Is that because

:53:41. > :53:46.she has a cunning plan but isn't telling, or is it because they are

:53:47. > :53:52.completely clueless? I'll let you answer. Now, last year, -- lustre, I

:53:53. > :53:56.want to talk about activism and a possible snap election next year.

:53:57. > :54:05.Mrs me has said there won't be won. We take our word. We have to plan, I

:54:06. > :54:09.think. Can I tell you I have great affection for Llangollen and the

:54:10. > :54:15.Clwyd South can sit constituency. I first stood here in 1999. In the

:54:16. > :54:21.last century! Persuaded to put my name forward by an old friend. He

:54:22. > :54:27.was very canny to phone me up and say, we came fourth last time, you

:54:28. > :54:31.won't have to do anything. I was selected. After driving through the

:54:32. > :54:38.rain from Kana from and spectacularly hitting a wall just up

:54:39. > :54:41.the road from here on returning, the very next Saturday, nine months

:54:42. > :54:47.before the election I was here again, that this time, hitting the

:54:48. > :54:52.doors. In the car park of the Wild Pheasant I met my new agent, the

:54:53. > :54:59.late and much missed councillor Barrie Price. Barry, I asked, where

:55:00. > :55:04.is everyone else? Well, he said, only the two of us. There are more,

:55:05. > :55:10.only it's just, well... We didn't expect you to start quite so soon.

:55:11. > :55:15.They did come out every following Saturday, and on weekdays as well,

:55:16. > :55:21.determined to make this our first general election, something special

:55:22. > :55:28.include South, and they succeeded. Thanks to them. OK, we did come

:55:29. > :55:34.second, but with a swing of 18.9% to Plaid, and we gave Labour the fright

:55:35. > :55:40.of its life. Barry always reckoned that with another couple of weeks we

:55:41. > :55:44.would have won it. And at the count, with Labour seats falling into our

:55:45. > :55:52.hands across our country, I had the exhilarating pleasure of saying, the

:55:53. > :55:56.fair wind of the West is blowing through Wales Today, to the delight

:55:57. > :56:03.of our people and a good few of the counting staff, and to the dismay of

:56:04. > :56:09.Labour. So, what's the point of this little story? Well, it is in the

:56:10. > :56:18.spirit and in the optimism of 1999, and even better, that we must now

:56:19. > :56:22.adopt a plan, must adopt our work and make all that planning and work

:56:23. > :56:30.our own. But we have to get on with it. Now, if we had to win. And when

:56:31. > :56:34.we must for Wales. We will win throughout Wales if we turn two

:56:35. > :56:41.activists here, four activists there, and four into eight and 18 to

:56:42. > :56:45.16, and do it now, getting onto it, working Street by street. Theresa

:56:46. > :56:50.May will perhaps call a snap election next spring. With a

:56:51. > :56:54.sweeping majority in England, and damaging hard Brexit. She will

:56:55. > :57:01.certainly find Labour still at each other's throats. There is no going

:57:02. > :57:06.back for them. But we will be ready. Ready to fight for Wales, ready to

:57:07. > :57:17.win for Wales. Friends, there is a huge challenge ahead of us, but

:57:18. > :57:19.here, in the territory of, we will meet the challenge and together we

:57:20. > :57:28.will go forward stronger. APPLAUSE The MP Hywel on the

:57:29. > :57:33.prospect of an early general election.

:57:34. > :57:37.Final word on our programme of the day, there has been quite a fight

:57:38. > :57:41.for Leanne Wood for one reason or another this week. How important is

:57:42. > :57:45.it an afternoon for her speaking live to conference delegates this

:57:46. > :57:48.afternoon? I think it is a big challenge for her. As we said at the

:57:49. > :57:53.beginning of the programme, reflected throughout the programme,

:57:54. > :57:59.there are two big issues, the Brexit issue, on which it is clear the

:58:00. > :58:04.party is united in a maximum Remain position if I can put it that way.

:58:05. > :58:13.So she will have to explain that to people watching at home, people who

:58:14. > :58:16.will be saying, hang on, Wales voted to leave. Then she has that thorny

:58:17. > :58:20.issue of coalition. We just heard is Dyfed Edwards talking about the

:58:21. > :58:24.importance of Government, local Government, saying you can be

:58:25. > :58:29.comfortable in opposition but you cannot do anything in opposition. I

:58:30. > :58:36.think it was a clear response to what Neil McEvoy said just now. So

:58:37. > :58:39.it is alive argument. Vaughan thank you very much. Vaughan will be back

:58:40. > :58:43.this afternoon. We will be back at 2pm this afternoon when we will hear

:58:44. > :58:47.live from the Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood. I hope you can join us

:58:48. > :58:51.then. Thanks for your company for the past couple of hours. Until this

:58:52. > :58:56.afternoon, goodbye from us all.