:00:10. > :00:20.Good evening. Question Time is back, and not a moment too soon. As the
:00:20. > :00:20.
:00:20. > :00:24.new song goes, we are sorry, so sorry we have been away.
:00:24. > :00:29.To business. On our panel, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury,
:00:29. > :00:33.Danny Alexander, Labour's deputy leader, Harriet Harman,
:00:33. > :00:43.Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, television presenter Kirsty Alsop
:00:43. > :00:54.
:00:54. > :00:59.Thank you very much. The first question of this new series comes
:00:59. > :01:03.from Rob Fletcher. Will we see the same level of anger as in Athens
:01:03. > :01:09.and Madrid once the full impact of the UK Government's austerity
:01:09. > :01:12.measures are felled? Danny Alexander. There is a very big
:01:12. > :01:16.difference between those countries and our country. In those countries,
:01:16. > :01:20.they are having to go further, make more dramatic cuts to keep pace
:01:20. > :01:22.with the demands of the markets, because their governments did not
:01:23. > :01:25.start out with a strong plan to deal with the problems they face.
:01:25. > :01:29.They are having to go further because their interest rates have
:01:29. > :01:35.been pushed higher because the markets are demanding even further
:01:35. > :01:38.austerity measures. In this country, because when we came in as a
:01:38. > :01:42.coalition in 2010 we said from the start that this was a major problem
:01:42. > :01:46.that had to be sorted out, we have been able to set out spending
:01:46. > :01:51.reductions and tax rises that are phased in over the four Year period.
:01:51. > :01:54.Of course, there are some very difficult things there, but I do
:01:54. > :01:59.not think we will see the same response because we have been able
:01:59. > :02:03.to keep control for ourselves as a country. Do you agree with your
:02:03. > :02:06.leader who said, our influence in the world, our standard of living,
:02:06. > :02:11.public services and culture of tolerance and openness are in the
:02:11. > :02:16.balance? I do agree with that. His point was that in difficult
:02:16. > :02:19.economic times, unless you are able to keep control, to make decisions
:02:19. > :02:24.for yourselves as a democracy, rather than being forced to do it
:02:24. > :02:27.by the markets, those things become serious issues. At a time when not
:02:27. > :02:30.only are we in Europe and other parts of the developed world seeing
:02:30. > :02:34.economic problems, but where other parts of the world, emerging
:02:34. > :02:37.markets, are growing rapidly, we have to be careful to take the
:02:37. > :02:41.right decisions to get our economies going again, to ensure
:02:41. > :02:46.that our way of doing things continues to be the right way.
:02:46. > :02:50.Harriet Harman, we saw riots over the poll tax. Do you think this
:02:50. > :02:54.economic policy could lead to what we are seeing in Madrid and Athens?
:02:54. > :02:59.I hope that before we get near that stage the Government will recognise
:02:59. > :03:03.that their plan is not working and will change course. They promised
:03:03. > :03:07.that they would get economic growth, and instead the country is in
:03:07. > :03:10.recession. They promised they would get the deficit down, and borrowing
:03:10. > :03:16.has gone up. They promised we would be in it together and they had done
:03:16. > :03:22.a tax cut for millionaires. So people feel that it is not working.
:03:22. > :03:25.APPLAUSE So what would you do? Well,
:03:25. > :03:29.obviously you need to get the deficit down but not in such a way
:03:29. > :03:34.that it stifles the economy. It is very telling that of all of the G20
:03:34. > :03:39.countries, all of which were hit by the global financial crisis, this
:03:39. > :03:45.country alone, as well as Italy, is one of only two in recession. So I
:03:45. > :03:50.think the evidence is there. They have tried their austerity plan for
:03:50. > :03:53.two years. For heaven's sake, sometimes it is right to just admit
:03:53. > :04:02.that it is not working, you have got it wrong, before there is more
:04:02. > :04:05.pain, suffering and damage done. Jacob Rees-Mogg. There is an
:04:05. > :04:10.absolutely key difference between us and member states of the
:04:10. > :04:13.eurozone, which is we have control over our own money. We have our own
:04:13. > :04:17.monetary policy. You can cut spending if you can have
:04:17. > :04:21.quantitative easing and low interest rates. That means the
:04:21. > :04:24.economy has access to cash, which in Europe they do not. Their
:04:24. > :04:28.interest rates have been rising whilst hours have been falling. You
:04:28. > :04:33.cannot borrow any money in Spain. It might be difficult here but it
:04:34. > :04:39.is harder in Spain. We also have a competitive currency. Since 2008 it
:04:39. > :04:46.has fallen down to about one pound 60p to the dollar. That has been
:04:46. > :04:50.helpful for exports. If you are in Spain, Greece or Portugal, your
:04:50. > :04:54.economic policies are imposed on you now by the European Union. In
:04:54. > :04:58.Greece and Italy, you have had your Prime Minister changed by Ward of
:04:58. > :05:04.the European Commission. I do not know whether you like David Cameron,
:05:04. > :05:08.but at least he will be replaced by you and not by European bureaucrats.
:05:08. > :05:12.I think that gives us confidence in the policies the Government is
:05:12. > :05:16.taking. We can follow them, accept them, argue about them, but we will
:05:16. > :05:20.decide them in the end. There were riots over the poll tax in a
:05:20. > :05:25.democracy with Mrs Thatcher as Prime Minister. Why should the same
:05:25. > :05:28.thing not happen if people are suffering hardship? Because the
:05:28. > :05:32.ability to use monetary policy, quantitative easing and schemes to
:05:33. > :05:37.lend the banks are crucially important. We keep mentioning the
:05:37. > :05:41.poll tax and those riots. I think about a year-and-a-half ago in
:05:41. > :05:44.Tottenham, when similar things happened. Actually, the reason is
:05:44. > :05:49.that people do not have a lot of money at the moment and people are
:05:49. > :05:54.struggling for jobs. Yes, there were issues with youth, but I fail
:05:54. > :06:01.to see how blame it on Margaret Thatcher's poll tax... I think it
:06:01. > :06:05.is exactly the same. And you. was allegedly supposed to help the
:06:05. > :06:09.economy gain momentum and we were supposed to be given this
:06:09. > :06:13.quantitative easing, �375 billion of cash given to the banks which
:06:13. > :06:17.are already owned partly by taxpayers, to help small and
:06:17. > :06:21.medium-sized businesses. We are now taking another �1 billion of
:06:21. > :06:26.taxpayers' cash and putting it into a special bank that is supposed to
:06:26. > :06:30.be doing exactly the same job that quantitative easing, which Jacob
:06:30. > :06:33.Rees-Mogg is extolling the virtues of. Make the quantitative easing
:06:33. > :06:36.work and it might stimulate the economy to provide the jobs and the
:06:36. > :06:42.economy that is needed and people would not even consider going on
:06:42. > :06:46.the streets to riot. Steve Coogan. I think the point made by this
:06:46. > :06:51.gentleman is right. I think the riots were, to some extent, a
:06:51. > :06:55.result of poverty and of the fact that we are still in recession, and
:06:55. > :06:58.these measures are not working. For all the quantitative easing that
:06:58. > :07:03.took place, people are still finding it almost impossible to get
:07:03. > :07:05.loans from the banks. It is not working. What I think should have
:07:05. > :07:12.happened straight away is that there should have been, when they
:07:12. > :07:15.came into office, the Liberal Party should have pushed for a tax rise.
:07:15. > :07:19.If anything, I think had they not been there, though, the tax cut
:07:19. > :07:26.would have been even greater. So their presence has mitigated the
:07:26. > :07:30.worst excesses of the Tory government. But it is time to
:07:30. > :07:36.change course. These measures have not worked. We can see that. People
:07:36. > :07:41.are feeling it. And I think the complacency that it will not happen
:07:41. > :07:46.here, I think we are in a very dangerous situation. We need to act
:07:46. > :07:50.now and not wait until something awful happens. What would your
:07:50. > :07:53.change be? I think certainly the mansion tax, although it will not
:07:53. > :07:57.make a great difference to the economy, is the right signal. That
:07:57. > :08:02.kind of thing placates people who are angry, which is important, even
:08:02. > :08:06.though the economic effects will be minimal. That kind of thing is
:08:06. > :08:11.politically important. It shows that we are literally all in it
:08:11. > :08:15.together. Are you going to get your mention tax? We have argued for in
:08:15. > :08:20.the election, in our manifesto, and subsequently, and we will keep
:08:20. > :08:25.arguing for it. A path that does not mean you're going to get it!
:08:25. > :08:28.have increased taxes substantially on wealthy people. Under Labour you
:08:28. > :08:32.had the scandalous situation where someone who ran a private equity
:08:32. > :08:37.company could pay less tax on their capital gains than their cleaner
:08:37. > :08:40.paid on their income. We ended that. We increased capital gains tax
:08:40. > :08:44.substantially and reduce the amount of tax relief will the people can
:08:44. > :08:47.get on their contributions. We have ended the loopholes were you could
:08:47. > :08:51.hide your big property in a foreign offshore companies. So we are
:08:51. > :08:55.raising much more from the wealthy already. And we are using that
:08:55. > :08:59.money to ensure we can reduce the burden of taxation, the income tax
:08:59. > :09:04.rates, or working people of this country, by ensuring that the tax-
:09:04. > :09:08.free amount on the income that people earn goes up. What Steve
:09:08. > :09:15.Coogan was saying that a mansion tax, even though it might not raise
:09:15. > :09:20.money, would assuage people's anger. Which is insulting. Is it going to
:09:20. > :09:25.happen? We are arguing for it. have said that, but is it going to
:09:25. > :09:29.happen? The thing that we have said, and Nick Clegg stressed, and I did
:09:29. > :09:32.at our conference, is that we have to make more painful decisions in
:09:32. > :09:37.terms of spending reductions, to ensure that our economy gets out of
:09:37. > :09:44.the mess that the Labour Party left it in, and part of that has to be
:09:44. > :09:49.extra taxes on the wealthy. So why have you add a tax cut for each
:09:49. > :09:56.millionaire of �40,000 every year? That is all but cut in the top rate
:09:56. > :10:02.of tax has given you. Yona because the tax system that you left us was
:10:02. > :10:05.scandalous. We have replaced that tax with new taxes on the
:10:05. > :10:12.wealthiest to ensure they can pay money into the system to ensure
:10:12. > :10:17.that deficit reduction burden is fairly shared. That will cost �3
:10:17. > :10:22.billion. You will not get the mansion tax through, because people
:10:22. > :10:29.in mansions vote Conservative, so I don't think it is going to happen.
:10:29. > :10:35.Kirsty. I am the exception that proves the rule. I would be happy
:10:35. > :10:39.to pay it. I think what Steve Coogan said his patronising. What
:10:39. > :10:43.he was saying is that the masses need this tax rise in order to be
:10:43. > :10:46.convinced of something. Although we know it will not raise money, it
:10:46. > :10:49.will stop people rioting in the streets. Unless we can have
:10:49. > :10:53.intelligent political debate, with everybody understanding that we
:10:53. > :10:59.want to achieve one thing, to raise the maximum amount possible for
:10:59. > :11:03.those who are less well-off. That is the point. Everybody around this
:11:03. > :11:07.table knows that high taxes don't do that. And they are not
:11:07. > :11:10.politically brave enough to say, we have people who are less off and
:11:10. > :11:13.people who are more well-off. How do we get the most amount of money
:11:13. > :11:19.from the people who are more well- off to the people who are less
:11:19. > :11:22.well-off? That is not necessarily high taxes. But we tax income to
:11:22. > :11:27.highly and unearned wealth too lightly. That is the shift we need
:11:27. > :11:31.to make. Unfortunately, I do not think that is the reason for the
:11:31. > :11:38.cuts. We are not trying to give it to the less well-off. We are trying
:11:38. > :11:41.to do something with debt. Sadly, I do not think they are intelligent.
:11:41. > :11:43.The cuts are not intelligent. We might be able to change our
:11:43. > :11:49.government, and we might have that choice, but the damage is already
:11:49. > :11:56.going to be done because the cuts are not intelligent. They are very
:11:56. > :11:58.short term. If you look at the cuts in further education, I teach
:11:58. > :12:01.English to Speakers of Other Languages, and their cuts mean that
:12:01. > :12:05.students are not going to learn English as they should be, so in
:12:05. > :12:08.the long-term those people will not be getting jobs. So the cuts are
:12:08. > :12:12.not intelligent and we definitely do need to change direction but it
:12:12. > :12:21.will be too late by the next government, unfortunately. The man
:12:21. > :12:25.It is obvious that the cuts are not intelligent and we are not in it
:12:25. > :12:29.together. It is the working-class, poor people, who are being squeezed
:12:29. > :12:38.the most and suffering record youth unemployment, cuts in benefits,
:12:38. > :12:47.real cuts in wages, and we are all paying the price for bankers'
:12:47. > :12:51.mismanagement, not for what working-class poor people have gone.
:12:51. > :12:55.-- what they have done. That Mrs out that we were spending far too
:12:55. > :13:00.much money that we did not have. If you go back to the 1970s, tax has
:13:00. > :13:04.almost never raised more than 38% of gross national product. Our
:13:04. > :13:10.spending, if it is above that, leads to a deficit. However you
:13:10. > :13:15.readjust the tax system, with attacks at 98%, or 40%, it has
:13:15. > :13:19.raised 38% of GDP in a good year. If you start spending up to 50%,
:13:19. > :13:23.you are in trouble, and that is where we were. There have to be
:13:23. > :13:28.cuts. It has to be brought back and that is painful than it takes place.
:13:28. > :13:35.In terms of the rich not paying their fair share, the top 1% of
:13:35. > :13:39.taxpayers pays �39 billion in tax. They pay 26.5% of the income tax
:13:39. > :13:43.raised, and they earn 13% of the earnings, so they are paying their
:13:43. > :13:46.fair share. And if you take too much, you will find they will not
:13:46. > :13:53.work so hard and they will leave the country. So if you want money,
:13:53. > :13:56.you need to have an intelligent tax system. It is strange that the
:13:56. > :14:00.Government's policy seems to be that if you are incredibly rich you
:14:00. > :14:04.need a tax cut to make you work harder, but if you are poor, you
:14:05. > :14:11.need to appear tax credit cut to make you work harder! -- you need
:14:11. > :14:14.to have your tax credit cut. course, the Gentleman is right,
:14:14. > :14:18.none of us want to have to make reductions in public spending, to
:14:18. > :14:22.deal with the problems we face. But your Government promised people you
:14:22. > :14:26.could end boom-and-bust, and that was not true. You left a terrible
:14:26. > :14:29.mess in our economy, under regulated the bangs, let them run
:14:29. > :14:36.riot, you lost the election and we have to clear up the mess that you
:14:36. > :14:40.left. -- you under regulated the banks. The Tories used to say a
:14:40. > :14:43.minimum wage would make the economy fall apart. They always say they
:14:43. > :14:47.are going to leave the country and go elsewhere, and they will take
:14:47. > :14:57.away their ball. It did not happen when we introduced a minimum wage.
:14:57. > :14:58.
:14:58. > :15:03.They seem to be fine. I think the We must go on. We have lots of
:15:03. > :15:06.questions here. To take part in the debate at home, push the Red Button.
:15:06. > :15:16.debate at home, push the Red Button. You can see what others are saying.
:15:16. > :15:17.
:15:17. > :15:22.Join in by texting: Matthew Potter? Would we be better
:15:22. > :15:30.off with more plebes and fewer public school boys, patrolling the
:15:30. > :15:39.public school boys, patrolling the corridors of power? APPLAUSE.
:15:39. > :15:42.That word plebes? James? I thought that question may be directed at
:15:42. > :15:46.me! It could be something to do with my voice. I think we need the
:15:46. > :15:54.right people for the job. We have to ensure that we have an education
:15:54. > :16:00.system that provides a good system in the state as has got from
:16:00. > :16:04.private schools. I was at Eton with fantastic teachers and facilities.
:16:04. > :16:09.I don't think that people should be excluded from public service. That
:16:09. > :16:13.would abmistake, but I think you do want a state-funded education
:16:13. > :16:17.system. I think that Michael Gove is doing this. That will ensure
:16:17. > :16:21.that the highest quality education is given to everybody in the
:16:21. > :16:27.country, not just those who go to the public schools.
:16:28. > :16:30.Do you ever call anyone a plebe? course I don't! I think people in
:16:31. > :16:35.public life ought to show good manners to the electorate who put
:16:35. > :16:42.them there and the police are part of that electorate. I am not in
:16:42. > :16:47.favour of people being impolite to people who are serving them and
:16:47. > :16:50.their country. I think that is a mistake. It is very good news that
:16:50. > :16:55.Andrew Mitchell apologised for it, which he was right to do.
:16:55. > :16:59.Steve Coogan? I think we would be better served with more state-
:16:59. > :17:05.educated people in politics. My education was free. It did not do
:17:05. > :17:10.me any harm. Did it do you any good? Well, I'm
:17:10. > :17:16.here! I also think that the whole plebe issue is, I thought was
:17:16. > :17:20.really, we should congratulate the Chief Whip for honestly and
:17:20. > :17:24.eloquently expressing what has always been Tory Party policy,
:17:25. > :17:33.which is pea plebe management. Contain the plebes, keep the plebes
:17:33. > :17:38.at bay, pat them on the head when we they need to be. Put them out in
:17:38. > :17:43.the back garden. I don't think this is true. There is bread and circus,
:17:43. > :17:48.probably Labour's approach, bribing people with their own money.
:17:48. > :17:52.think modern Conservatives have learned to modify and edit their
:17:52. > :17:55.thoughts. I think most Conservatives probably think the
:17:55. > :18:00.word plebe, but don't say it out loud.
:18:00. > :18:04.He said he wanted to make it clear he did not use the words attributed
:18:04. > :18:12.to... He is clear about what he didn't say, but vague about what he
:18:12. > :18:16.did say. APPLAUSE
:18:16. > :18:21.Kirstie Allsopp? I think we could continue talking about the Andrew
:18:21. > :18:25.Mitchell issue all night. But David would shoot us. There are all sorts
:18:25. > :18:30.of issue, the first one is failed apologies. He did not say sorry,
:18:30. > :18:33.not properly. He should have stood up and said what he did was totally
:18:34. > :18:37.and utterly wrong. That the police officer and his wife are coming to
:18:37. > :18:41.have dinner with him in Parliament next week. That he is doing 50
:18:41. > :18:46.hours of community service working with young people with rage issues
:18:46. > :18:50.and that he is ult Earl ashamed of himself.
:18:50. > :18:54.-- utterly ashamed of himself. There has been stuff in the press
:18:54. > :18:59.about John Terry. It comes back to the same issue, you can't speak to
:18:59. > :19:02.people like that, if you do you have to learn to say sorry. The
:19:02. > :19:06.fashion for qualified apologies. Some people have it it in their
:19:06. > :19:11.heads if you say sorry you will be sued, but you have to learn to say
:19:11. > :19:15.sorry and to be a grown-up. The second thing about the question is
:19:15. > :19:21.that 7% of people in this country are privately educated. My children
:19:21. > :19:26.are privately educated. That means there is a �6,000 per annum not
:19:26. > :19:32.spent on my child, but spent on another child. If everyone who is
:19:32. > :19:37.privately educated turned up at their local state school, the
:19:37. > :19:40.education school -- system would be in even more dire trouble. We
:19:41. > :19:46.cannot afford for everyone at public school to anybody the state
:19:46. > :19:53.system and will not be able to for a long time in the current climate.
:19:53. > :19:56.What do you make of the apologies? The Nick Clegg apology? It is
:19:56. > :20:02.another one. When he made that pledge he would never be the Prime
:20:02. > :20:07.Minister. I can say to the children, if you are to become a maths genius,
:20:07. > :20:11.you can eat jelly babies for the rest of your life, but I know I
:20:11. > :20:15.will never have to come up with the jelly babies. It is the same with
:20:15. > :20:17.Nick Clegg. You can make all sorts of pledges if you will never have
:20:17. > :20:22.to carry them out. APPLAUSE.
:20:22. > :20:31.I would like to ask if your decision to put your children in
:20:31. > :20:35.private school is purely through altruism? No. The problem is,
:20:35. > :20:41.because people that feel that they do have to privately educate their
:20:41. > :20:50.children, that they are raised in such a way that they end up
:20:50. > :20:53.becoming Tories who then call people... No! No! Who then call
:20:53. > :20:58.people... That is not true. No, I am sorry.
:20:58. > :21:03.Who then regard people as plebes. Absolutely not. I will not have you
:21:03. > :21:08.sit there and tell me that I am not capable of bringing up my children
:21:08. > :21:12.to respect everybody. I grew up in state -- I went to a
:21:12. > :21:17.state school... So did I. I would not regard anyone as a
:21:17. > :21:20.plebe. The one thing I will say that Andrew Mitchell said it was
:21:20. > :21:25.utterly honest. Harriet Harman were you privately
:21:25. > :21:29.educated? I was. You see it is not a Conservative
:21:29. > :21:32.thing. Some people are, some people are not. They can go in different
:21:32. > :21:38.directions. It has strayed into Andrew Mitchell
:21:38. > :21:42.territory. You may or may not want to do it, but the question is, we
:21:42. > :21:47.would be better off with more plebes than fewer public school
:21:47. > :21:52.boys. Well, I think that everybody feels
:21:52. > :21:58.really uncomfortable about what happened. Everybody knows that if
:21:58. > :22:02.the police officer had said to the Cabinet Minister the words that
:22:02. > :22:06.actually Andrew Mitchell has admitted to saying, he would not be
:22:06. > :22:10.in his job job in Downing Street anymore. There is unfairness there.
:22:10. > :22:14.He would have been out. Secondly, why is it, without even bothering
:22:14. > :22:17.to look at the evidence, that David Cameron believed the word of the
:22:17. > :22:21.Cabinet Minister and not the word of the police officer? There is a
:22:21. > :22:26.great worry about that. Also, he has not apologised. I think that
:22:26. > :22:31.the truth of it is, that the police in Downing Street, you know, Danny
:22:31. > :22:35.knows this very well. The police in Downing Street are doing their job,
:22:35. > :22:40.trying to keep Downing Street safe against a background of terrorism
:22:40. > :22:46.threat. They are there just to do their job. For the idea that Andrew
:22:46. > :22:50.Mitchell could speak to somebody like that and then refuse to admit
:22:50. > :22:58.it or deny it, I think it reflects badly on David Cameron that he's
:22:58. > :23:03.been prepared to sweep it all under the carpet.
:23:03. > :23:08.APPLAUSE You say if a policeman had spoken like that he would have been
:23:08. > :23:13.sacked, do you think that Andrew Mitchell should have been sacked?
:23:13. > :23:21.am hesitant to call for Cabinet ministers to be sacked, the last
:23:21. > :23:27.one I called for to be sacked was promoted. That is Jeremy Hunt, but
:23:27. > :23:31.I agree with kirs I r Kirsty in a way, if he really apologised. He
:23:31. > :23:36.had really owned up, but he is argue against what the police
:23:36. > :23:39.officer said. I think that leave as very uncomfortable... I think David
:23:39. > :23:43.Cameron missed a huge PR opportunity it say that his party
:23:43. > :23:48.is not about that, that they don't speak to people like that, but in
:23:48. > :23:52.his actions in backing him up, we all know where the Tory Party's
:23:52. > :23:57.loyalties lie. I would ask the audience if any of you have lost
:23:57. > :24:01.your temper and been embarrassed about it after. He has apologised.
:24:02. > :24:07.I think it is part of human nature. It does.happen, it is embarrassing
:24:07. > :24:13.he should not have done it, but everybody loses their temper at
:24:13. > :24:18.some point in their lives. I was wondering if a person who
:24:18. > :24:25.called somebody a bigot should be asked to resign? Danny Alexander?
:24:25. > :24:29.The answer is yes. It not just the corridors of power, but the legal
:24:29. > :24:33.profession, the law courts, a whole range of professions which are
:24:33. > :24:37.still far too dominated by people from a particular social background.
:24:38. > :24:41.What we should be doing is ensuring that everyone from whatever
:24:41. > :24:44.background have the bust possible chances in life. We cannot succeed
:24:44. > :24:48.as a society with the lack of social mobility that we have in
:24:48. > :24:53.this country. There is a situation where not everyone has the same
:24:53. > :24:57.life chances. I believe we are trying to change that as a
:24:57. > :25:01.Government, for investing more money into the schools most to the
:25:01. > :25:08.disadvantaged children. More to nursery education, to disadvantaged
:25:08. > :25:11.two-year-olds, you see the gaps emerging from the people from
:25:11. > :25:15.disadvantaged backgrounds at a young stage. They get wider and
:25:15. > :25:21.wider. By the time that people reach that stage in life, you get
:25:21. > :25:29.to the situation where in all of these top professions it is heavily
:25:29. > :25:32.weighted to people from public backgrounds.
:25:32. > :25:37.To succeed as a society every single person needs to have the
:25:37. > :25:43.chance to get to the top. APPLAUSE
:25:43. > :25:45.Do you think what Andrew Mitchell said betrays an attitude which has
:25:45. > :25:50.damaged the Tories, therefore damaging the coalition? I don't
:25:50. > :25:54.know about that. I think it was certainly the wrong thing to say it
:25:54. > :26:00.was incredibly stupid for him to insult a policeman or a police
:26:00. > :26:02.woman in the way he is reported to have done. He has apologised to it.
:26:02. > :26:07.Not just generally, but directly to the individual.
:26:07. > :26:11.Let me finish. He apologised directly to the individual. That
:26:11. > :26:14.individual has accepted the apology. The Metropolitan Police
:26:14. > :26:17.Commissioner does not want to see a further investigation. The two
:26:17. > :26:23.individuals concerned have dealt with the situation, the rest of us
:26:23. > :26:28.should do so too. By the way, on the panel, Harriet and I have
:26:28. > :26:32.personal experience of apologising. Harriet has made comments about my
:26:32. > :26:36.hair colour, she phoned me to apologise for it. I accepted it,
:26:36. > :26:43.that is that. Can you remind us of the offending
:26:43. > :26:47.words? She referred to me as a ginger rodent! APPLAUSE
:26:47. > :26:51.I laughed about it, but many others with red hair did not. She as
:26:51. > :26:58.gracious enough to phone to apologise, I accepted it again
:26:58. > :27:04.straight away, I am glad to have a chance to do so again on air.
:27:04. > :27:08.Danny Alexander, do you think that raising tuition fees to an
:27:08. > :27:11.extortion faith amount enables people to have a good education,
:27:11. > :27:16.the same as privately educated people? I think that the new system
:27:16. > :27:21.in place is in some respects better for people from disadvantaged
:27:21. > :27:25.backgrounds. More money is spent on fee waivers so people don't have to
:27:25. > :27:29.pay money or any fees. Nothing upfront when you go to university.
:27:29. > :27:35.You only pay it back when you are in a good job earning more than
:27:35. > :27:40.�21,000. That is higher than under the previous system. So if you are
:27:40. > :27:44.earning �25,000, you will pay back �30. That is something which is a
:27:44. > :27:48.fair contribution for the advantages that you get for a
:27:48. > :27:52.universities education. I don't know how Danny can talk
:27:52. > :27:55.about his desire for everyone to have equal chances when they are
:27:55. > :27:59.cutting Sure Start. Thecational maintenance allowances, you say
:27:59. > :28:04.that they have trebled tuition fees. He just, all of the things that
:28:04. > :28:08.they say, the pupil premium that has come in, but the biggest cuts
:28:08. > :28:15.in schools that there have been for decades. Although his hair colour
:28:15. > :28:23.is lovely, the policies are rubbish! APPLAUSE
:28:23. > :28:28.We have to go on. From Richard Cook? Joirbgs what does the panel
:28:28. > :28:34.believe motivated the decision -- what does the panel believe
:28:34. > :28:38.motivated the system of Rochdale services to ignore the grooming of
:28:38. > :28:42.under-age females? This is the report that came out in Rochdale
:28:42. > :28:45.about the way that the Social Services and the police behaved
:28:45. > :28:50.towards young girls who made complaints. What motivates the
:28:50. > :28:55.question, do you think? This is yet another telling example of why it
:28:55. > :29:00.is important that if children complain, that they have been
:29:01. > :29:05.sexually abused, that you must start off by believing them and not
:29:05. > :29:10.disbelieving them. Because if you don't actually listen to them and
:29:10. > :29:14.take seriously their complaints and investigate them, then that is what
:29:14. > :29:18.the abusers rely on to go on. Whether or not it is the Catholic
:29:18. > :29:21.Church that had the problem of children complaining but not
:29:21. > :29:25.listened to over the years or whether what happened in Rochdale.
:29:25. > :29:29.So I think that the lesson that we have got to learn from this is not
:29:29. > :29:33.to write-off the complaints. Don't blame the victim. Don't assume
:29:33. > :29:37.there are some sorts of girls that would do that. Listen to them to
:29:37. > :29:43.protect them. The other thing that is disturbing about this is the
:29:43. > :29:47.idea that somehow it could be said that it is OK because these girls
:29:47. > :29:52.were prostitutes. I mean, when are we going to take a view in this
:29:52. > :29:56.society that it is not OK for men to be paying for sex and that those
:29:56. > :30:02.women or girls who get into that situation, that is not a free
:30:02. > :30:10.choice, that is exploitation. So I think we have to wake up and have
:30:10. > :30:15.some attitude-changing. The question was what do you think
:30:15. > :30:18.motivated the decision to act as they did? I think it was the
:30:18. > :30:22.tendency not to start from the starting point of believing the
:30:22. > :30:26.girls and taking seriously what they said. Possibly the police
:30:26. > :30:31.thought, this is not going to go anywhere. Possibly the CPS might
:30:31. > :30:36.have thought, juries will not believe these girls if we took it
:30:36. > :30:40.to court. Everybody, whether it is social workers, police, the Crown
:30:40. > :30:43.Prosecution Service and all of us in the public, have to start from
:30:43. > :30:47.the starting point of listening to children and not somehow assuming
:30:47. > :30:57.that people are making it up, because that is how abuse remains
:30:57. > :30:58.
:30:58. > :31:02.hidden for years. Girls mature faster than boys. So people have
:31:02. > :31:07.foolishly, idiotically, made the mistake of thinking that these
:31:07. > :31:12.children were women. They were not women. Just because they have boobs
:31:12. > :31:17.and wear make-up, it does not make them women. They are children. And
:31:17. > :31:24.the people involved in this case looked at them and thought these
:31:24. > :31:28.were bad young women. My stepson is 13 years old and he is a child. And
:31:28. > :31:33.he may be having all sorts of adult experiences and spending time away
:31:33. > :31:38.from home and all sorts of things but he remains a child. And in the
:31:38. > :31:41.law you're a child until you are 16 and cannot vote until you are 18.
:31:41. > :31:46.The biggest mistake that was made is that people were judging these
:31:46. > :31:50.girls. They were judging them, thinking they were not from the
:31:50. > :31:56.right background, or came from families social services knew of,
:31:56. > :32:00.and that they were wrong ones. That is the assumption they were making.
:32:00. > :32:04.Actually, this entire thing makes me want to weep. I remember reading
:32:04. > :32:11.about it in the Times last year and just thinking, this is just
:32:11. > :32:19.appalling, because these are children, and they have been let go
:32:19. > :32:25.by the state. I think it is an issue of resources. With all of the
:32:25. > :32:29.cuts being made on the public sector, a with the social work, the
:32:29. > :32:35.police, probation, prism, the NHS, the people working in these fields
:32:35. > :32:38.do not have the resources on the time to investigate claims that are
:32:38. > :32:42.not clear cut. And I think that with the cuts being made we are
:32:42. > :32:47.going to see more and more cases where social workers do not have
:32:47. > :32:54.the resources to check up on issues like these. Was that the issue,
:32:54. > :33:02.Steve Coogan? We do not know the full facts, so we do not know. I
:33:02. > :33:08.think there is the inference that is being made in some quarters that
:33:08. > :33:16.it might have been about the religious dimension to this, of the
:33:16. > :33:21.accused involved. And whether, because of religious sensitivities,
:33:21. > :33:25.there may have been recalcitrance on the part of the police. That is
:33:25. > :33:34.always a political hot potato. The one thing that nobody wants to talk
:33:34. > :33:41.about is the perception of misogyny in certain religions. I would say
:33:41. > :33:45.that is true of certain aspects, certain people within Catholicism,
:33:45. > :33:53.and also other religions. I do not think any religion has a monopoly
:33:53. > :34:00.on this. I think part of the problem is being able to have a
:34:00. > :34:03.mature discussion about what we think our shortcomings in our own
:34:03. > :34:12.and other people's religions without it turning into a racist
:34:12. > :34:17.football. I am choosing my words very carefully, because it is a
:34:17. > :34:20.hair-trigger for things. But that has been mooted. Are you saying the
:34:20. > :34:27.police and social services held back because they felt embarrassed
:34:27. > :34:35.by the possibility they were going to be accused of racism? I have
:34:35. > :34:41.read that somewhere. I want to be very careful because this is daily
:34:41. > :34:44.Mail territory, they love that kind of thing. But I think part of what
:34:44. > :34:47.happened there is that there is a dimension that was not addressed by
:34:48. > :34:53.people. People were scared of addressing it for fear of people
:34:53. > :35:03.jumping down their throat. And also the right for fear in some cases of
:35:03. > :35:05.
:35:05. > :35:09.igniting racial tension. -- right I think there has been effectively
:35:09. > :35:13.criminal negligence by the police. There can be no way of excusing
:35:13. > :35:17.girls of 10 and 11, of saying they were willing. There is no way of
:35:17. > :35:21.saying that was a right action and the police have to follow that up.
:35:21. > :35:25.If they did not, you must wonder what was their ulterior motive. To
:35:25. > :35:28.say they may have been embarrassed by some racial dimension is a
:35:28. > :35:38.dereliction of duty, and they should be culpable and they should
:35:38. > :35:39.
:35:39. > :35:45.be blamed. May be the best way of dealing with
:35:45. > :35:52.this is actually making the prison sentences life, not four years.
:35:52. > :35:56.Make it strong, rather than what they are doing at the moment.
:35:56. > :36:00.this is a truly appalling set of circumstances and I do not know was
:36:00. > :36:03.-- what was in these people's minds when they were hearing these
:36:03. > :36:06.complaints and ignoring them but I hope the Serious Case Review, which
:36:06. > :36:10.will go into the details of the people working on it and what
:36:10. > :36:14.motivated them, will get to the bottom of that. Do you think it
:36:14. > :36:18.will get to the bottom of the race and religious issues Steve Coogan
:36:18. > :36:22.mentioned? Is that part of the inquiry? I do not know if those
:36:22. > :36:27.were the issues at stake. I cannot speculate on the motives because it
:36:27. > :36:31.seems to me to be such an appalling omission. As has been said, they
:36:31. > :36:34.were young girls, not women. They were under the age of consent. You
:36:34. > :36:37.would have thought that when they came to complain, the officials
:36:37. > :36:43.would have said, something against the law is going on here,
:36:43. > :36:45.forgetting all the other issues the panel have rightly raised. I am a
:36:45. > :36:48.father of two daughters and I think it is truly appalling that young
:36:48. > :36:54.women can go and complain to the authorities and be ignored like
:36:54. > :36:58.that and have their lives ruined. It is disgraceful. The woman in the
:36:58. > :37:02.4th row. The points raised by the brave young people that contributed
:37:03. > :37:06.to this report were that they were not listened to. There had been
:37:06. > :37:10.countless reports going back many years, Serious Case Reviews, etc,
:37:10. > :37:13.talking about young people not being listened to. It is not
:37:13. > :37:18.expensive to listen to young people. Why have we not learn from earlier
:37:18. > :37:23.reports? I am just adding to what people
:37:23. > :37:27.have been saying, and there is an issue in Eastbourne, where a young
:37:27. > :37:32.girl, a friend of hers mentioned to the teachers that she had been
:37:32. > :37:35.having an affair with a teacher she has run away with, but she was not
:37:35. > :37:45.listened to. How long does it take for somebody to take action?
:37:45. > :37:49.I agree with the gentleman in the second row who put it correctly. It
:37:49. > :37:52.is outrageous that girls at this young age did not have their
:37:52. > :37:56.complaints taken seriously. To go back to the very beginning, the
:37:56. > :37:59.question, what was the motives of the people who ignored it? I do not
:38:00. > :38:04.care what their motives were. I do not want this covered up by saying,
:38:04. > :38:07.they were nervous about political correctness. That is the wrong way
:38:07. > :38:12.to go because it gives them an excuse and it says, it might have
:38:12. > :38:16.been all right to cover it up. And it was not. It was wrong. Their
:38:16. > :38:19.excuse and motive does not matter. These were children and they were
:38:19. > :38:24.abused, and it is terrifying that when they went to the people who
:38:24. > :38:28.they thought would protect them, they were left just as vulnerable
:38:28. > :38:32.as before they arrived. And we need to ensure that the authorities do
:38:32. > :38:35.their job, and when they do not, that they are punished with its --
:38:35. > :38:39.for it. I am not sure that I agree you should send people responsible
:38:39. > :38:48.to prison for life, but you should find criminal charges for people
:38:49. > :38:53.who have failed in this way. At the back. Given the length of time that
:38:53. > :38:58.this case has been happening and the appalling number of referrals
:38:58. > :39:02.made over that time, apparently 84 from one team and 44 from another,
:39:02. > :39:08.and over such a long period of time, is there is indicative of practice
:39:08. > :39:13.all over the country? You think it is widespread. Harriet Harman.
:39:13. > :39:19.I hope it is not an obviously the Inspectorate of social services
:39:19. > :39:22.needs to make sure that all social services departments live up to the
:39:22. > :39:26.standards of the best. But from time to time there is a false
:39:26. > :39:30.accusation, like a young girl will make an accusation that a school
:39:30. > :39:34.teacher has molested them. And if that accusation turns out to be
:39:34. > :39:40.false, everybody gets really hysterical about that and says, his
:39:40. > :39:45.career has been ruined. And then everybody retrench us. Actually,
:39:45. > :39:49.what we have to recognise is that, although wrongful allegations and
:39:49. > :39:52.the investigation of wrongful allegations can be very serious
:39:52. > :39:56.against the person that allegation is made against, you have got to
:39:56. > :40:00.have the starting point of starting to believe the child, no matter
:40:00. > :40:05.what their background, no matter what their circumstances are. They
:40:05. > :40:10.are the vulnerable ones. Any adult, no matter how important his
:40:10. > :40:13.professional standing, whether in education, the church, or in his
:40:13. > :40:20.community, it is better for him to take that risk than to have the
:40:20. > :40:22.risk on the child. So next time you see hysteria in the papers about a
:40:22. > :40:25.wrong for allegation about a teacher and everybody is saying
:40:25. > :40:28.there should be more restrictions against investigations, just
:40:28. > :40:38.remember the case of these girls in Rochdale.
:40:38. > :40:43.A question from Andrew Priestley. Can the next generation a four-day
:40:43. > :40:51.home without hope from the Bank of Mum and Dad? -- can they afford a
:40:51. > :40:55.home without help from the Bank of Mum and Dad? I think it depends
:40:55. > :41:03.where you live in the country. I do not think they can in Brighton,
:41:03. > :41:06.that is for sure. If they are fortunate enough to have a bank of
:41:06. > :41:13.mum and dad, which the vast majority do not, they will have to
:41:13. > :41:20.go to them, because the banks are not lending. We saw some
:41:20. > :41:24.irresponsible lending. I remember saying, we will not have any 100%
:41:24. > :41:28.mortgages on my programme because I do not believe in them and I do not
:41:28. > :41:32.want to look for houses for people who have them. But those days are
:41:32. > :41:36.over. The banks, God willing, have learned their lesson, as have we
:41:36. > :41:42.all, because we all played a part in this. And they have got to get
:41:42. > :41:45.their act India and lend. Every day a friend, former colleague, someone
:41:45. > :41:49.I was involved in, rings me and asks why it is taking so long for
:41:49. > :41:53.their mortgage to go through. The banks are simply not lending to
:41:54. > :41:59.people. They say that they are and all of the anecdotal evidence I am
:41:59. > :42:02.seeing says they are not. So, yes, I think the Bank of Mum and Dad
:42:03. > :42:05.should be better used, and I think that if people want to give their
:42:05. > :42:10.children money to buy a property, they should be allowed to do so and
:42:10. > :42:19.should not be taxed. But I also think that someone has to kick the
:42:19. > :42:24.banks, and kick them hard. Danny Alexander. Kirsty is right to say
:42:24. > :42:28.that in a lot of parts of the country, housing is simply too
:42:28. > :42:33.expensive for first-time buyers to afford. Therefore, as well as
:42:33. > :42:36.allowing the Bank of Mum and Dad to help, and we had an idea that, as a
:42:36. > :42:40.Government, we are developing and announced at our conference about
:42:40. > :42:43.allowing those mums and dads who do not have vast amounts of free cash
:42:43. > :42:48.to give their children but do have a pension fund that they have built
:42:48. > :42:51.up, where maybe they could release a lump sum early, use it to
:42:51. > :42:55.guarantee a deposit, that is another way that parents could be
:42:55. > :42:59.freed up to help kids buy a house. But we also need to build more
:42:59. > :43:03.affordable housing in this country. Recently, we announced a new policy
:43:03. > :43:06.of providing Government guarantees to housing associations to help
:43:06. > :43:11.them build more affordable homes more cheaply. That is something
:43:11. > :43:16.which is important here, too. There is more that we can do, but Kirsty
:43:16. > :43:19.is right about the banks, too. We have been kicking the banks, and we
:43:19. > :43:23.will continue to do so. Most recently the funding for lending
:43:23. > :43:26.scheme the Bank of England announced with the Treasury is a
:43:26. > :43:31.real push to the banks to lend more money to small businesses, which
:43:31. > :43:36.was mentioned earlier, and to people who need to buy houses, too.
:43:36. > :43:39.How are you kicking them? You have not been very effective. On
:43:39. > :43:42.Question Time over the last two years we have had endless people
:43:43. > :43:45.complaining about borrowing money and the person in your chair always
:43:46. > :43:49.so as they are putting pressure on the banks, and the person sitting
:43:49. > :43:56.there says, well, it does not make any difference.
:43:56. > :44:00.APPLAUSE the problems in the banking system
:44:00. > :44:04.are very deep-rooted and serious. It is taking a long time to change
:44:04. > :44:08.the culture of regulation, which we have changed, the structure of
:44:08. > :44:11.banks, which allowed them to have them lending to you and me and to
:44:11. > :44:15.small businesses, and have that polluted by international casino
:44:15. > :44:18.banking. Those are things we are changing. We have had several
:44:19. > :44:22.schemes to get them lending more, and the latest is by far the
:44:22. > :44:25.biggest, with the potential to increase bank lending by �80
:44:25. > :44:29.billion. The early signs are positive in terms of the amount of
:44:29. > :44:34.lending and the price of lending to people. We have put more money into
:44:34. > :44:37.a scheme which hopes to fund deposits through shared equity
:44:37. > :44:41.schemes for first-time buyers. We are putting Government money in to
:44:41. > :44:51.help first-time buyers get on the property ladder. But these are
:44:51. > :44:51.
:44:51. > :44:57.deep-rooted problems which take a Let's hear reaction? Why are the
:44:57. > :45:03.banks not lend, then? There are a number of reasons why the banks are
:45:03. > :45:08.not lending, but mainly due to the fact that they made such hugely
:45:08. > :45:12.irresponsible decisions that they have to deal with that. They are
:45:12. > :45:18.overindebted. So, why kick them? You have to get
:45:18. > :45:21.them to help? The function that banks should be performing in an
:45:21. > :45:26.economy working well is lending responsible to individuals that
:45:26. > :45:33.want to buy homes and small businesses that need money to grow
:45:33. > :45:37.and we have to get the banks to move forward. Encouraging them to
:45:37. > :45:41.responsible activities. If people are to release their lump
:45:41. > :45:46.sum pensions to fund their children buying a property, then what are
:45:46. > :45:50.those parents going to live on when they are pensioners? It will not be
:45:50. > :45:54.state pension? Harriet Harman? Do you like the idea of the use of the
:45:54. > :45:59.pension to buy a house for your children? I think it is an
:45:59. > :46:05.absolutely balmy idea! For a start, only a very small percentage of
:46:05. > :46:08.people have pension pots which are big enough, so they, you would be
:46:08. > :46:12.only helping a small number of people, but the idea that people
:46:12. > :46:16.should gamble pension pots on the property market is absolutely
:46:17. > :46:20.beyond bonkers. I do think that actually, even the Bank of Mum and
:46:20. > :46:24.Dad is not working now as the Bank of Mum and Dad was a way of helping
:46:24. > :46:30.a young person get a mortgage and even that is not working. That's
:46:30. > :46:38.why we suggested one way forward would be to have a tax on the pool
:46:38. > :46:41.of bonuses that banks pay to their top executives and use that money
:46:41. > :46:45.for helping construction of building more homes which would
:46:45. > :46:48.provide jobs as well as providing more homes. I do think it is wrong
:46:48. > :46:54.that the Government are watering down the planning laws which said
:46:54. > :46:58.that councils could say that as a condition of property developer
:46:58. > :47:01.being able to develop a property that they would have to build some
:47:01. > :47:07.affordable homes at the same time. I think it is disappointing that
:47:07. > :47:15.they are not doing that. I feel passionately about more,
:47:15. > :47:18.better quality low-cost homes, but the prok lem -- problem about the
:47:18. > :47:23.planning regulation, it stopped people building. They sat on the
:47:23. > :47:27.pools of land. The big companies, the big ing if firms have huge
:47:28. > :47:32.parcels of land. They are waiting for what they see is the right
:47:32. > :47:36.climate to build. It is incredibly important when anybody builds
:47:36. > :47:41.anything that there should abproportion of low-cost homes, but
:47:41. > :47:45.in some areas of London where it was 50%, they did not build. So you
:47:45. > :47:51.find the point at which they will start building and there is enough
:47:51. > :47:57.low-cost homes to build. I think that there has been a
:47:57. > :48:01.generational shift in that people in their early 20s aspired to their
:48:01. > :48:08.own home, most of us accept it may happen in our 30s, in the meantime
:48:08. > :48:11.they are renting, but it would be a help if there is control in the
:48:11. > :48:17.rents, especially in the south-east. APPLAUSE.
:48:17. > :48:23.I think that suggestion is far more helpful than tax relief on the Bank
:48:23. > :48:27.of Mum and Dad that will help only a section of privileged middle-
:48:27. > :48:31.class people to the people at the bottom of the property ladder, it
:48:31. > :48:36.does not make a difference. They have not any money, their parents
:48:36. > :48:39.do I have money... So controlled rents? I think anything that helps
:48:39. > :48:44.people at the bottom. That is where the money should go. In helping
:48:44. > :48:47.those at the bottom of the ladder. There is tax relief on parents
:48:47. > :48:53.lending money is something that is meaningless to the vast majority of
:48:53. > :48:57.people. It helps a small section of society, again, people who are more
:48:57. > :49:00.likely to vote Conservative. It does not help the vast majority of
:49:00. > :49:05.people. Why is the Government so powerless
:49:05. > :49:11.to control the banks? You run the country? Why can't you just say to
:49:11. > :49:14.them a proportion of this money we have given you, �375 billion in
:49:14. > :49:19.quantitative easing, which went into the banking system and
:49:19. > :49:26.disappeared, why not say that a certain percent of that must be
:49:26. > :49:31.lent to people to buy houses? �375 million went to debt. Not all
:49:31. > :49:35.to the banks, but the gentleman in front is right. We hate the banks
:49:35. > :49:43.but we kick them and it is making it harder for them to lend if you
:49:43. > :49:48.put a tax on a billion pounds. It stops them lending �1 billion. We
:49:48. > :49:53.put up capita ratios it reduces the amount of money that they can lend.
:49:53. > :49:58.So there was a loan with the boom, but we put them up when there is a
:49:58. > :50:03.bust. This is the wrong way round. Put them up to choke off a boom in
:50:03. > :50:08.lending when it is getting out of hand. When there is a dirth of
:50:08. > :50:12.money, reduce the capital ratios so that the banks have money to lend.
:50:12. > :50:15.So it is better that banks do the business of banking rather than
:50:15. > :50:18.governments, the history of governments running things is not a
:50:18. > :50:24.very satisfactory one. I think we have time for one more
:50:24. > :50:33.question it goes to the heart of what has been going on in Brighton.
:50:33. > :50:38.Rebeba Adams has the question. After two years in clielgs
:50:38. > :50:43.collision Government is anyone listening to Nick Clegg? Is anyone?
:50:43. > :50:48.Apart from when he is singing on YouTube. Steve Coogan? He listen.ed
:50:48. > :50:53.to me. I went to see him. He ensured me that he would ensure
:50:53. > :50:57.that the fans of the Leveson report would be implemented. So, I was
:50:57. > :51:00.pleased with him. Whether he can get that past David Cameron, I am
:51:00. > :51:05.not so sure. The question is whether you were
:51:05. > :51:10.listening to him, not whether he was listening to you? I was
:51:10. > :51:14.listening to him as he was telling me what I wanted to hear. Whether
:51:14. > :51:18.he can follow through it with it, I don't know. I am pleased that the
:51:18. > :51:24.liberals are part of the coalition. They put the brakes on the Tories.
:51:24. > :51:29.Maybe not as much as we would like, but had they not been there, they
:51:29. > :51:33.were the fly in the Tory ointment, the more flies in Tory ointment,
:51:33. > :51:37.the better, as far as I am concerned, but whether people will
:51:37. > :51:42.listen to him, I don't know. I think that David Cameron has to
:51:42. > :51:46.listen to him to some extent. As I don't think that the Tories will
:51:46. > :51:51.get an overall majority at the in connection election.
:51:51. > :51:55.Harriet Harman? I think if people are listening to Nick Clegg
:51:55. > :51:58.theyline wondering what he said before the last election. If you
:51:58. > :52:03.say you are going to increase the number of police officers by 3,000,
:52:03. > :52:09.then vote to cut the number of police officers by 15,000, you know
:52:09. > :52:13.if you say you are not going to put up VAT and straight away do that, I
:52:13. > :52:16.think that people lose faith, but I also think, this is where I am not
:52:16. > :52:21.sure that I agree with Steve on this, I think what has happened is
:52:21. > :52:25.that you know if the Lib Dems fight for the pupil premium, then the
:52:25. > :52:28.Tories let them have it, but they take away twice as much with the
:52:28. > :52:33.other hand with the education spending and Sure Start if you
:52:33. > :52:39.think of what the Lib Dems fought for in the manifesto of increasing
:52:39. > :52:42.the threshold before paying tax and they won that, but then ended up
:52:42. > :52:46.voting to cut tax credits and putting up VAT. So what you have
:52:47. > :52:51.had is the Lib Dems trying to give with one hand and the Government
:52:51. > :52:56.taking away twice as much with the other. I think that Nick Clegg at
:52:56. > :53:02.his krches, they answered the question, -- at his conference
:53:02. > :53:05.answered the question, which is what are Lib Dems for? It seems to
:53:05. > :53:11.me that the answer to that question is that they are there to prop up
:53:11. > :53:20.the Tories. Many people think at the next
:53:20. > :53:25.election that maybe they'll be propping up Labour? We are fighting
:53:25. > :53:29.for an overall majority. You know people have just one vote. We are
:53:29. > :53:37.seeing that precious vote you give, we are asking you to give that the
:53:37. > :53:44.Labour Party. The idea that people do deals behind closed doors...
:53:44. > :53:50.Harriet! Come on! I'm sorry, Kirsty, we are not doing deals behind
:53:50. > :53:58.closed doors. Alistair, Peter, Gordon, were not trying to do deals
:53:58. > :54:03.behind closed door? -- doors? are not... In the situation where
:54:03. > :54:08.we are now the -- before a general election, we are being straight
:54:08. > :54:11.with people. We want an overall majority. We are not doing deals.
:54:11. > :54:16.The only Lib Dem telephone number that I have got in my phone
:54:16. > :54:22.contacts is actually Danny. That's right.
:54:22. > :54:27.Well, there you go... Maybe we will have a chat... Maybe a chat on the
:54:27. > :54:29.train home later. So, you don't obviously rule out a
:54:29. > :54:35.coalition with the Liberal Democrats after the next election
:54:35. > :54:39.if the figures worked out for you to have one? I am not a political
:54:39. > :54:44.commentator. I am arguing and putting forward what our position
:54:44. > :54:48.is and asking people to vote for that. You can't, we have a first-
:54:48. > :54:52.past-the-post system. People have one vote. You cannot vote for a
:54:52. > :54:56.coalition. You can either vote for the Government, which is the Lib
:54:56. > :55:00.Dem and the Tories or vote for the alternative. Which is Labour.
:55:00. > :55:05.Jacob Rees-Mogg, what do you think, are people listening to Nick Clegg
:55:06. > :55:09.after two years? I don't like coalitions. I wish that the
:55:09. > :55:13.Conservatives had won an overall majority. I don't like coalitions,
:55:13. > :55:19.I think it allows the politicians to abandon policies. That is a bad
:55:19. > :55:23.thing. We should be elected on a clear manifesto and deliver on it
:55:23. > :55:27.or not, not to say we are in a clielgs, we cannot do it. Having
:55:27. > :55:32.said that, the politicians have to deal with what we are given. We
:55:32. > :55:38.were given a coalition. You could have been given a minority
:55:38. > :55:47.government? People have. Then you have another election? They have
:55:47. > :55:53.not. Harold Wilson had a Liberal /Labour pact.
:55:53. > :55:57.In 70, he had a minority government... No he did not, he had
:55:57. > :56:03.it in' 74. All I am saying is that you don't
:56:03. > :56:08.have to gov entrepreneur as a majority government? We rarely have
:56:08. > :56:14.minority governments. There was a period in the '70s and the '60s,
:56:14. > :56:19.where Wilson had a small majority. In the '70s he went into a Lib/Lab
:56:19. > :56:24.pact, but the parties have to deal with what the electorate delivers.
:56:24. > :56:30.Actually, I think that Nick Clegg, I can hardly bring myself to say
:56:30. > :56:35.this... Try! Try! He was rather noble two years ago in going into
:56:35. > :56:39.coalition to the great disadvantage to his party because we were facing
:56:39. > :56:43.a huge financial crisis. Remember the weekend after the election was
:56:43. > :56:48.the point at which Greece was asking for its first bail out. At
:56:48. > :56:52.that point the interest rate on UK guilts was the same as on Spanish
:56:52. > :56:57.debt. Now we are at a fraction of Spanish debt. We had to do with
:56:57. > :57:01.that financial crisis. We needed a clear Government. We could not have
:57:01. > :57:06.a minority government that could be chucked out in a few weeks and
:57:06. > :57:10.another election and a period of uncertainty. So much as it pains me
:57:10. > :57:14.to say it, much though I don't like coalitions, I think that Nick Clegg
:57:14. > :57:18.did a noble thing then and deserves to be listened to up to the next
:57:18. > :57:23.election and then I hope you will listen exclusively to David Cameron
:57:23. > :57:27.and not to anybody else. We have crossed our 60 minutes,
:57:27. > :57:32.Danny. If you could be brief, I would be grateful?
:57:32. > :57:36.The first thing to say is that single pearl governments have
:57:37. > :57:41.broken a lot of promises. Reb the Labour policy of ethical foreign
:57:41. > :57:45.policy. Remember the war in Iraq? Boom and bust? The mess that they
:57:45. > :57:48.made of our economy? I think that people are listening to Nick Clegg
:57:48. > :57:51.and to the Liberal Democrats as we made the right decision for the
:57:51. > :57:55.country to go into coalition and we are delivering many of the things
:57:55. > :57:59.that we care about. We are delivering income tax cuts for 24
:57:59. > :58:02.million working people in this country. We are delivering extra
:58:02. > :58:05.investment in schools and nursery education for the most
:58:05. > :58:09.disadvantaged children. Delivering support for the green agenda in
:58:09. > :58:14.this country. The Liberal Democrats are making a real difference to
:58:14. > :58:18.this country ags part of a strong stable country to sort out the
:58:18. > :58:23.country's economic problems and I am very proud that we are part of
:58:23. > :58:28.this Government. Kirstie Allsopp, a lasting quick
:58:29. > :58:35.word? Is anybody really listening? Not to you! It is interesting you
:58:35. > :58:40.mention the war in Iraq. If Nick Clegg told me we would pull out of
:58:40. > :58:43.Afghanistan early, I would listen to him. My mother-in-law told my
:58:44. > :58:47.other half that more servicemen committed suicide in Afghanistan
:58:47. > :58:50.than have died in combat. If this is true it is the most
:58:50. > :58:54.heartbreaking thing I have heard. Every time with a Question Time,
:58:55. > :59:02.when this war we are still engaged in does not come up, I think what
:59:02. > :59:07.on earth is going on? APPLAUSE Well, I'm sorry it didn't come up
:59:07. > :59:12.this week, but our time is up. We are in mar next week. We have Ken
:59:12. > :59:16.Clarke and the boss of British Airways, Willie Walsh and after
:59:16. > :59:19.that in Birmingham. So if you would like to come to Manchester or