:00:16. > :00:20.And evening all, whether you are at home or here in the audience waiting
:00:21. > :00:24.to put questions to our panel and I'm always asked this - no, they do
:00:25. > :00:28.not know the questions in advance. Our panel tonight, one of the
:00:29. > :00:31.authors of yesterday's budget, the Liberal Democrat Chief Secretary to
:00:32. > :00:35.the Treasury, Danny Alexander. Labour's shadow Health Secretary,
:00:36. > :00:39.Andy Burnham. A Conservative MP, Dominic Raab who
:00:40. > :00:46.has been making a name for himself on the backbenches and former direct
:00:47. > :00:53.or director of the think-tank, Jill Kirby and a crime writer who has
:00:54. > :01:03.written 28 novels which have sold 12 million copies worldwide, Val
:01:04. > :01:07.McDemid-. And David Burgess Joyce, your
:01:08. > :01:11.question, please. It would appear to us northern folk that the economy is
:01:12. > :01:15.being driven by the south-east. Does the panel have any idea when the
:01:16. > :01:20.rest of us will feel some of that heat? When is it going to reach
:01:21. > :01:25.here? Val McDermid? It is hard to say when it will. We seem to have
:01:26. > :01:28.been saying the same thing for the last 35 years. I can remember
:01:29. > :01:32.working and living in the north-west of England for most of that time. It
:01:33. > :01:36.does seem there is a strong focus on what happens down the south and we
:01:37. > :01:42.end up with what is leftover on the table. Most of us who remember the
:01:43. > :01:45.'80s remember how deeply our traditional sfris cut in the north
:01:46. > :01:48.and doing was done to replace them. -- traditional industries.
:01:49. > :01:54.Yesterday's budget didn't offer anything for those stuck out in the
:01:55. > :01:59.regions. Do you think it is deliberate regret? I don't think it
:02:00. > :02:06.is deliberate. I don't think they. Dominic Raab First of all the
:02:07. > :02:10.recovery is going well. We have record jobsworth. There has been 1.
:02:11. > :02:13.7 million new jobs in the private sector under this Government. Double
:02:14. > :02:17.the record of a decade under Labour and I don't accept that it has been
:02:18. > :02:22.all down in the south or in London. Up here in Warrington, for example,
:02:23. > :02:29.unemployment is down 30% since this Government. There have 2,500 new
:02:30. > :02:34.businesses between 2010 and 2012 but I accept we need it make sure we
:02:35. > :02:37.have a more balanced recovery and stronger economic competitiveness
:02:38. > :02:42.across the whole country. That's what, for example, investigating in
:02:43. > :02:46.shale gas which will hopefully reap dividends across the country and
:02:47. > :02:50.what things like HS2 are supposed to do and even with this week, we have
:02:51. > :02:54.heard with the new updates with the plans that Hitachi have said they're
:02:55. > :02:58.going to base their global rail business in the UK and build another
:02:59. > :03:02.factory in the north. We are getting there, slowly but surely. I accept
:03:03. > :03:07.the premise. In practice we are making gross. Juf said it is varied
:03:08. > :03:11.but 80% of new jobs are created are in London and four out of five are
:03:12. > :03:16.in low-paid sectors. If only 20% of the new jobs are coming to the
:03:17. > :03:21.north, there is a disproportion to that. You cannot say we are all
:03:22. > :03:25.recovering the say. We are not in all this together. The south are
:03:26. > :03:31.getting 08% more jobs than the north. Andy Burnham, answer that. My
:03:32. > :03:35.point back to Dominic would be - recovery going well for who? You
:03:36. > :03:38.look for the for unemployment across the north-west? We then the up this
:03:39. > :03:42.week in the north-west. It is an indictment. Look at the Budget. The
:03:43. > :03:49.Evening Standard last night proclaimed it a Budget for London
:03:50. > :03:54.and announced the investment for the different pet schemes people were
:03:55. > :03:58.raising in London. What was in it for the north or north-west? I
:03:59. > :04:03.didn't hear T you put your finger on it. They talk about private sector
:04:04. > :04:08.jobs. How many are part-time? How many of them are zero hours
:04:09. > :04:13.contracts. I forever have people in my surgery saying - they won't let
:04:14. > :04:17.me work more than 23 hours because they don't want ton pay the extras
:04:18. > :04:20.or we have people on zero hours contracts, so they can't find out
:04:21. > :04:23.what they will earn one week to the next, so they cannot plan for their
:04:24. > :04:28.life, get a loan or a mortgage. That's the reality of the economy.
:04:29. > :04:35.Too much in the north. I have said this, for many years, we flif a
:04:36. > :04:38.London-centric country. We live in. Policies designed for London, not
:04:39. > :04:44.the whole country and this has to change.
:04:45. > :04:49.APPLAUSE Danny Alexander? Well, I think the
:04:50. > :04:52.questionnaire raises one of the most important points for the UK economy,
:04:53. > :04:57.which is how can we make sure that growth is balanced, that the future
:04:58. > :05:02.of our is balanced and benefits everyone across the whole of the UK.
:05:03. > :05:06.Frankly, we had several decades of governments that were obsessed with
:05:07. > :05:10.the City of London, banking system and financial service, spent all
:05:11. > :05:15.their time as Andy and his colleagues did, going on prawn
:05:16. > :05:18.cocktail offensives to charm the bankers and City Whizz Kidz to pay
:05:19. > :05:22.more tax on the basing that would support everything. And the things
:05:23. > :05:26.like manufacturing community, for the whole of the country,
:05:27. > :05:32.particularfully Scotland, and in the north, were neglected. The decline
:05:33. > :05:35.that Labour had. That's wrong. Some of the things we were doing
:05:36. > :05:38.yesterday, to directly answer your question, supporting energy
:05:39. > :05:41.intensive industries, chemical and steel works and the big
:05:42. > :05:44.manufacturing companies through changes on energy policies,
:05:45. > :05:48.supporting manufacturing businesses to invest, in new plant and
:05:49. > :05:51.equipment by doubling capital allowances available to businesses
:05:52. > :05:56.to invest in growing their own business, additional support for
:05:57. > :06:00.apprenticeships, crucially important for growing the skills we need for
:06:01. > :06:05.future economy. There was more money to encourage small and medium-sized
:06:06. > :06:09.businesses to take on apprentices. One of the things I'm proud of. So,
:06:10. > :06:15.when he says the evening Papers in London said it was a budget for
:06:16. > :06:18.London and it is London-centric, say that's what they are, but not what
:06:19. > :06:22.you were? That is what I would say. I said in Scotland it was a budget
:06:23. > :06:26.for Scotland because we are supporting investment in the oil and
:06:27. > :06:30.goes sector which is crucially important to the UK UK economy. Do
:06:31. > :06:35.you agree with him, it is a budget for everybody? I must confess, I
:06:36. > :06:39.thought the budget was OK. It wasn't a criticism. Coalition government,
:06:40. > :06:42.who I think are doing a reasonable job. It was more around pushing
:06:43. > :06:47.people out of London into the provinces with their businesses. I
:06:48. > :06:52.used to work in HR. I still keep an eye on all the jobs now seem to be
:06:53. > :06:55.advertised, even the senior jobs and it is almost like there is a retreat
:06:56. > :06:59.into London. It is a different country from the rest of the UK and
:07:00. > :07:02.this is' quite worrying. -- and that's quite worrying.
:07:03. > :07:07.APPLAUSE The woman at the back in orange.
:07:08. > :07:11.Could I just ask about youth employment? You mentioned
:07:12. > :07:15.apprenticeships but it is still a big concern in the north-west,
:07:16. > :07:19.certainly. I think youth employment is a big concern across the whole
:07:20. > :07:22.country. Youth unemployment is starting to come down but we need to
:07:23. > :07:25.do more to help. One of the things I'm proudest of as a Liberal
:07:26. > :07:29.Democrat in the Coalition Government is the massive expansion in the
:07:30. > :07:33.apprenticeships we have presided over. It is a good way for
:07:34. > :07:37.businesses to take on young people and for young people to gain the
:07:38. > :07:41.skills they need for the future of our economy. That alongside the big
:07:42. > :07:44.cuts to income tax for people on lower incomes, are two of the areas
:07:45. > :07:48.where I think the Liberal Democrats have made the biggest contribution
:07:49. > :07:53.to getting the country back on the right track. I share the concern
:07:54. > :07:56.that too much of the growth and wealth is concentrated in the
:07:57. > :08:00.south-east. We need to look at Government's policies, both this
:08:01. > :08:06.Government and its predecessor, one of the most damaging policies as
:08:07. > :08:09.Danny alluded to is carbon tax on industries, industries that were
:08:10. > :08:12.successful. Places like Stoke-on-Trent not far from here and
:08:13. > :08:15.in the north. You cannot expect the whole country to unite around the
:08:16. > :08:21.same jobs that are happening in London. We can't all be dependent on
:08:22. > :08:25.consumer spending and debt-fuel growth. We knead to be making and
:08:26. > :08:28.exporting but that doesn't just happen through special little
:08:29. > :08:32.allowances and a little bit of money here and there. It is fundamentally
:08:33. > :08:37.changed by the kind of energy policies we have. If we are making
:08:38. > :08:42.it impossibleably expensive to manufacturer He this country and all
:08:43. > :08:47.the other energy intensive industries which are clobbered by
:08:48. > :08:50.green taxes which are OK in London at Metropolitan dinner parties but
:08:51. > :08:55.in the country have had a profound effect in the economy. We cannot
:08:56. > :08:59.reinvent those things and bring those jobs back overnight. We will
:09:00. > :09:04.not do it by tinkering with the carbon floor price. We need to do
:09:05. > :09:09.much more. Woman at the back there. Well, I feel this is all started in
:09:10. > :09:15.Liverpool in the '80s and I believe Margaret Thatcher had a big Nelson
:09:16. > :09:19.Mandela this process but Dominic mentioned HS2 bringing income to the
:09:20. > :09:22.North West. It is not stopping anywhere here. It is stopping at
:09:23. > :09:26.mnch Europe and then carrying on. You will get people flying into
:09:27. > :09:30.Manchester Airport, straight out of the north-west. I don't understand
:09:31. > :09:38.how you feel that's going to be bringing much benefit.
:09:39. > :09:44.On that point, the interim report that came in this week on this, said
:09:45. > :09:48.one of the things - two key things - first, we need to get more value for
:09:49. > :09:51.money out of the project. I know there are concerns about that. But,
:09:52. > :09:55.also, we want to bring forward the extension of phase 1 so it
:09:56. > :10:01.incorporates Crewe as a regional hub. You are trie. Can't just be an
:10:02. > :10:06.elevator between north and south. -- you are right. It needs to promote
:10:07. > :10:09.greater connections between people and businesses.
:10:10. > :10:14.We will take a question on this. We will stick with the idea of the
:10:15. > :10:20.north/south but a question from Leanne Round on HS2. Is the high
:10:21. > :10:24.speed rail link worth the money? Is it worth the money and will it
:10:25. > :10:28.achieve what you were saying? What do you think? Are you for it? I am
:10:29. > :10:32.for the principle but we will have to see whether it is worth the
:10:33. > :10:37.money. You know, there can't be a blank cheque as Ed Balls has said. I
:10:38. > :10:42.grew up in this area and know it well. I observe the routes south are
:10:43. > :10:46.full. The West Coast Main Line and M6 are full. We cannot carry on as
:10:47. > :10:51.we are, we will not be able to move. The principle is a good one but the
:10:52. > :10:54.precise plan, I don't think does maximise the benefit for the
:10:55. > :10:58.north-west. I have had to ask some tough questions about HS2. It comes
:10:59. > :11:03.right through my constituency in Leigh T causes maximum disruption in
:11:04. > :11:06.my view but offers very little benefit as the lady at the back was
:11:07. > :11:10.saying. -- it causes. I have called for
:11:11. > :11:14.changes, I have said there needs to be changes to maximise all of the
:11:15. > :11:18.north-west. How do you do that? You are all talking about the north not
:11:19. > :11:22.benefitting. David Higgins said that. You are saying it got behind
:11:23. > :11:26.because of Labour but what you have done, Jill Kirby says is not enough.
:11:27. > :11:30.How is this part of the country going ever to catch up and balance?
:11:31. > :11:34.Is it possible it can balance with the south-east and London, or is it
:11:35. > :11:40.a pipe dream that politicians talk about and never achieve. He has said
:11:41. > :11:44.there need to be changes to improve connectivity. I agree. Coming back
:11:45. > :11:49.to Danny. He said the north went into decline in the Labour years. I
:11:50. > :11:54.fundamentally object to that. I saw Liverpool and Manchester go into
:11:55. > :12:00.massive decline in the 1980s and 1990s. I had to leave Warrington, as
:12:01. > :12:04.a young man, after university to get a job in the south because there was
:12:05. > :12:07.nothing here. Liverpool revived, Manchester revived this. Area
:12:08. > :12:12.revived under our Government. You took away the north-west development
:12:13. > :12:17.agency, which in my view was a disastrous step and has made it
:12:18. > :12:21.harder for this region to go in and win the inward investment we need.
:12:22. > :12:25.Well I'm not here to defend the record of the Tory Government. You
:12:26. > :12:30.said we did nothing. Of the Tory Governments in the 1980s and 1990s.
:12:31. > :12:34.I agree of much of what you intad that. I have to say to have a Labour
:12:35. > :12:37.spokesman coming on and talking about the economy without
:12:38. > :12:46.recognising the mess your party made of the economy, without
:12:47. > :12:49.recognising... APPLAUSE AND BOOS Recognising the way the financial
:12:50. > :12:53.system collapsed because of the lack of regulation under Gordon Brown,
:12:54. > :12:56.the way in which Labour was running a structural deficit before the
:12:57. > :13:01.crisis. I think a simple apology. You can write it down if you don't
:13:02. > :13:05.want to say it. Can I just say, there is nothing
:13:06. > :13:08.more annoying to someone outside the political loop to hearing
:13:09. > :13:13.politicians continually blaming the ones who came before.
:13:14. > :13:17.APPLAUSE Surely there has to be some kind of
:13:18. > :13:23.statute of limitations on a big boy did it and ran away.
:13:24. > :13:30.The one thing Danny won't admit is he inherited a growing economy from
:13:31. > :13:34.us and his Government put it back into recession. Let's take Val's
:13:35. > :13:37.advice and not fight the battles that are over and look ahead to the
:13:38. > :13:41.problems that this part of the world is now facing. There is a hand up
:13:42. > :13:46.there. I don't see who it is attached to. The man there.
:13:47. > :13:55.If you are on about HS2. Why not start it at the north and go down?
:13:56. > :13:58.Are you going to say you are going to do that? One of the things David
:13:59. > :14:01.Higgins was saying in his report this week was we should get the
:14:02. > :14:05.northern section going more quickly. That we should get a new hub in
:14:06. > :14:09.Crewe, to be opening at the same time as the Birmingham link opens,
:14:10. > :14:12.to get economic benefits to this part of the country more quickly.
:14:13. > :14:17.That must be right. The other thing he was saying and Andy is right
:14:18. > :14:20.about this, is that it is important to use HS2. It is not just about
:14:21. > :14:24.connecting Manchester or Birmingham to London. It is actually about
:14:25. > :14:29.getting connections between northern cities quicker, more effective.
:14:30. > :14:34.Speeding up a transport system and infrastructure system in the north.
:14:35. > :14:38.I am a backbencher, I understand the fors and against it, I think we need
:14:39. > :14:41.to make it work. I'm not clear if Labour are sitting on the fence. Are
:14:42. > :14:44.you foreor against this major infrastructure project there to
:14:45. > :14:50.boost the economy as a whole but also particularly the north? Jtsds
:14:51. > :14:55.give me a better plan for the people of Warrington, for the people in
:14:56. > :15:01.Liverpool? You haven't done that. He wanted to go - Give me a better
:15:02. > :15:05.plan. That is what David Higgins said. It's not good enough to sit on
:15:06. > :15:11.the fence. The North doesn't end here. I have lived in
:15:12. > :15:15.Northumberland. When you say LS2 is going to the North they say, no it's
:15:16. > :15:21.going to Manchester. They don't think that's the North. All right.
:15:22. > :15:27.There is a whole chunk of the country north of here. Hello,
:15:28. > :15:30.trains! We will move onto another aspect of this Budget. Hang on.
:15:31. > :15:35.Another aspect of this Budget. Remember, you can join in this
:15:36. > :15:39.debate right now, texting or Twitter.
:15:40. > :15:51.this is another aspect of the Budget, before we leave the Budget.
:15:52. > :15:54.Catherine Whitley, please. Is the Chancellor right to trust pensioners
:15:55. > :16:00.not to blow their pension pot, or will they spend it on booze, Bingo
:16:01. > :16:07.and buy-to-let? APPLAUSE
:16:08. > :16:14.Booze, bingo and buy-to-let. Booze and bingo is a sore point with you,
:16:15. > :16:21.Danny Alexander, you said its with a grass grass the way the Tories
:16:22. > :16:27.published it. I thought it was a spoof? The Chancellor right to
:16:28. > :16:31.pensioners not to blow their pension? We can trust pensioners to
:16:32. > :16:35.use their money that they have saved for their whole lives for their own
:16:36. > :16:39.retirement responsibly to make the best choices for themselves.
:16:40. > :16:43.Particularly now, that we've cleared away the bureaucracy of means
:16:44. > :16:47.testing thats with a big part of the pension system until recently. We
:16:48. > :16:52.are moving to a situation from 2016 where we have a single-tier pension.
:16:53. > :16:58.The level of the basic state pension will on its own lift people out of
:16:59. > :17:00.the means testing process. A strong platform for people to save on.
:17:01. > :17:04.There is a basic level of support which means people will not fall
:17:05. > :17:09.back on the state additionally. It's right to say, if you have saved all
:17:10. > :17:13.your life. Put money aside, you should have flexibility to choose
:17:14. > :17:18.how you use to to benefit yourself rather than being constrained to
:17:19. > :17:22.annuity which have been criticised as not offering the best value for
:17:23. > :17:25.me. It's absolutely right to trust the people to make the right
:17:26. > :17:29.decisions for themselves. Do you agree? The temptation will be there
:17:30. > :17:35.for people to spend it on something else. Do you think that matters?
:17:36. > :17:40.Probably not, no. A major change this, isn't it? Before we were told
:17:41. > :17:44.what to do with our pensions we are free to do what we want. People
:17:45. > :17:49.should be trusted with their own money, money they saved. The theory
:17:50. > :17:53.if people know they have more freedom when they get to retirement
:17:54. > :17:56.they are more inclined to feel to save for it. The principle is
:17:57. > :18:02.obviously a good one. I think, we should bear in mind that the reason
:18:03. > :18:07.why annuities are so appalling unremowntive at the moment is
:18:08. > :18:11.because of Government policy and QE saversers have had a desperately
:18:12. > :18:14.hard time this policy is something that will possibly make life a
:18:15. > :18:19.little bit better. It doesn't go very far. All the people... All
:18:20. > :18:22.those pensioners who have already retired, and are stuck with the
:18:23. > :18:27.annuities they have got, will get no comfort for this. So, you know, it's
:18:28. > :18:30.not all Rosie in the pensioners' garden because of this
:18:31. > :18:34.liberalisation. In principle, it is a good move. A good thing. Do you
:18:35. > :18:39.think it's a good thin, sir? I think if a pensioner is lucky enough and
:18:40. > :18:43.intelligent enough to save money for their retirement, they are
:18:44. > :18:49.intelligent enough to spend it. The real question is, will Andy Burnham
:18:50. > :18:56.rebell if he doesn't get his station at Leigh like he said at a public
:18:57. > :19:06.meeting? Sorry? What you do you mean - will he rebell? He said if he
:19:07. > :19:10.didn't get a public station? I'm driving a hard bargain. I want a
:19:11. > :19:16.station. Will you rebell? I will wait to see what the plan is. Did
:19:17. > :19:19.you say you would rebell? We were talking about pensions. You answer
:19:20. > :19:25.him? It's in the the next parliament we don't have a plan yet. Will you
:19:26. > :19:29.rebell? Is answer the question. I said to the Government we need
:19:30. > :19:37.changes. David Higgins said there will be changes to the northern
:19:38. > :19:46.section. Will you rebell, you know you won't get a on... He will not
:19:47. > :19:52.answer. Let's move on. Well tried, sir. Well trierd! Up there. As an
:19:53. > :19:58.addition to the question that the lady asked about the changes in
:19:59. > :20:03.pensions. Yes. Does the panel believe that this could just be a
:20:04. > :20:10.cynical way of the Government raising billions in tax revenue?
:20:11. > :20:14.What do you think? I think this whole conversation about what we
:20:15. > :20:18.will do with our ill-gotten gains or our hard saved money is a diversion.
:20:19. > :20:23.Yesterday's Budget, for me, was a very good Budget. I have a
:20:24. > :20:27.pensioners pot, ISA and premium bonds. It was a Budget for people
:20:28. > :20:32.who have. I don't like paying my taxes any more than anybody else. My
:20:33. > :20:37.tax bill drops into my inbox my heart sinks. I pay the taxes, it's
:20:38. > :20:41.the cost you pay for living in a civilised society. A civilised
:20:42. > :20:48.society is how we take care of people who don't have.
:20:49. > :20:52.APPLAUSE All this conversation about will we
:20:53. > :20:57.spend our pension pots On holidays or pay off our mortgages or be
:20:58. > :21:01.sensible or invest it? It's a diversion from what is ailing this
:21:02. > :21:04.country at the moment, the tight, tight budgets that so many of our
:21:05. > :21:07.people are living on. Not just pensioners, people across the board.
:21:08. > :21:13.Young people who have been betrayed by the promises made to them. Who
:21:14. > :21:17.have gone off to university got degrees, run up huge amount of debts
:21:18. > :21:21.and pushing a trolley up-and-down a train because there aren't graduate
:21:22. > :21:26.jobs for them. That upsets me that I care about. Yesterday's Budget was
:21:27. > :21:36.for the haves, can we think of the people who are not served by the
:21:37. > :21:37.Budget, who are not the haves? APPLAUSE
:21:38. > :21:42.The first and most important thing, if you are the most vulnerable in
:21:43. > :21:47.our society, the unemployed, creating new jobs, 1.7 million jobs
:21:48. > :21:51.in the private-sector is critical. It's for the economically most
:21:52. > :21:55.vulnerable. I would also point out that if you're... The changes we are
:21:56. > :21:58.making, some have been difficult, from my own experience some people
:21:59. > :22:04.are struggling with the cost of the living. The raw fact of the matter
:22:05. > :22:09.is elderly poverty, child poverty, fuel poverty, inequality, believe it
:22:10. > :22:12.or not, under the statistics, the objective statistics is lower now
:22:13. > :22:16.than it was under Labour. I want to pick up on the point about savings.
:22:17. > :22:21.We all talk about Government spending and Government debt,
:22:22. > :22:26.household debt, private debt in this country, is bigger as a proportion
:22:27. > :22:30.of GDP than Government debt. There are measures to encourage saving.
:22:31. > :22:35.From a pensioner bond to scrapping the 1 o 0p rate of saving for low
:22:36. > :22:39.earners. That is incredibly important. Saving is one of the
:22:40. > :22:42.economic virtures in the economy. When you get to the end and worked
:22:43. > :22:45.hard and saved, of course people should be able to have the freedom
:22:46. > :22:50.to spend that money how they want to. The idea that we suddenly jump
:22:51. > :22:59.in and boss them around at that stage and have rigidity and they can
:23:00. > :23:03.only go down the the annuity route is crazy. The man there. I would
:23:04. > :23:07.like to raise the point that the Budget provided nothing for young
:23:08. > :23:12.people at all. The legacy of this Government will be a lost
:23:13. > :23:15.generation. We -- the first thing this Tory-led Government was cut
:23:16. > :23:18.youth and career services. You burnt the bridge for young people getting
:23:19. > :23:25.into employment straightaway with that. I keep on hearing tonight that
:23:26. > :23:27.the economy is in recovery. Can you tell me, why the rise for food banks
:23:28. > :23:39.is just so high? Answer the food banks first before
:23:40. > :23:45.we forget and his point about young people. We are seeing an increase in
:23:46. > :23:50.food banks in a range of developing countries, in Germany, in Canada, in
:23:51. > :23:54.those countries... Always someone else... You are seeing greater use
:23:55. > :23:59.of food banks. Of course, there are people who are having to rely on
:24:00. > :24:05.food banks. That is for a whole range - a whole number of people are
:24:06. > :24:08.relaying on food banks. Because their benefits are delayed or they
:24:09. > :24:12.are out of work. A range of circumstances. We are working so
:24:13. > :24:15.hard to create more jobs in this country. The answer to the point of
:24:16. > :24:20.the young man at the back about young people there, a number of
:24:21. > :24:26.things. Firstly, creating jobs in this country, 1.6 million jobs
:24:27. > :24:29.created since 2010, expansion in apprenticeships there are a bigger
:24:30. > :24:32.range of options for young people to get the skills and employment they
:24:33. > :24:36.need. Taking away national insurance from employers who employ Under-21s
:24:37. > :24:39.to make it more attractive for employers to take on young people to
:24:40. > :24:45.work. Cutting income tax for people who pay tax at the basic rate,
:24:46. > :24:51.lifting the tax threshold to ?10,500. Tax cut to ?800 to 25
:24:52. > :24:55.million working in this country, it's helping to make work pay
:24:56. > :24:58.better, particularly for people on low paid work. There is a lot in
:24:59. > :25:05.this Budget to answer the question that you raised, sir. There there
:25:06. > :25:08.you are. Andy Burnham what do you say, he has the answers? To listen
:25:09. > :25:12.to the Chancellor yesterday and to Danny now, you would think the
:25:13. > :25:17.biggest problem we have is where we invest our spare cash we have left
:25:18. > :25:20.over, the savings we have got. They didn't...
:25:21. > :25:23.APPLAUSE They didn't mention the cost of
:25:24. > :25:26.living once. The Chancellor didn't mention it. It doesn't appear in the
:25:27. > :25:31.Budget statement. The biggest problem we have, is people keeping
:25:32. > :25:35.their heads above water, isn't it? Making the ends meet and feeding the
:25:36. > :25:39.kids. That is happening now. This Budget was silent on that. Nothing
:25:40. > :25:44.to say to the 900,000 young people who can't find a job. Nothing to say
:25:45. > :25:50.to the proud people reduced to using food banks. That's not true. Mothers
:25:51. > :25:55.coming in with health problems and they're feeding their children. They
:25:56. > :25:59.have not ate for three days. They have nothing to say on these issues.
:26:00. > :26:04.Nothing at all. The thing I want to finish off by saying, this is the
:26:05. > :26:09.week when Oxfam said that five families in this country have have
:26:10. > :26:14.more wealth between them than the bottom 20%. The IFS said today that
:26:15. > :26:20.the people hardest hit by all of their budgets, outside of the top
:26:21. > :26:26.10% are the bottom 10%. That is outrageous. This is what you get.
:26:27. > :26:30.APPLAUSE When you get budgets written by, as
:26:31. > :26:35.Michael Gove said, public schoolboys. Public schoolboys have
:26:36. > :26:40.no idea what life is like for ordinary people in Warrington and
:26:41. > :26:42.elsewhere. APPLAUSE
:26:43. > :26:45.A class matter? When we get on to Eton we know there is nothing of
:26:46. > :26:52.substance coming from the Labour Party. Michael Gove said it! Michael
:26:53. > :26:57.Gove said it. Can I answer the lady's question. I opened a food
:26:58. > :27:00.bank which is a well off village in one of the most affluent parts of
:27:01. > :27:06.the country. Cost of living is affecting everyone across the
:27:07. > :27:10.country. The Trussell Trust is the nation co-ordinator, number one
:27:11. > :27:14.co-ordinator for the food banks, they say the two biggest causes are
:27:15. > :27:19.global food prices and energy prices. There isn't a huge amount we
:27:20. > :27:24.can do about global markets. There something you can do. In this
:27:25. > :27:31.country, about ?400 goes on the average families annual food bill
:27:32. > :27:38.from agriculture subsidies. We want to reform the policy in the EU. On
:27:39. > :27:42.energy, we have to to be energy self sufficient. Andy needs to explain
:27:43. > :27:46.why they closed down seven nuclear powerser stations one of the reasons
:27:47. > :27:50.why we have such energy prices now. There are specific reasons why we
:27:51. > :27:53.have this problem with food banks. Politicians shouldn't get off the
:27:54. > :27:59.hook that easy. What are you going to po it? I want to move on. We have
:28:00. > :28:02.a lot more questions to come. I don't want the moment to pass
:28:03. > :28:09.without drawing your attention, in case you missed it, to Ed Balls new
:28:10. > :28:15.uf missism for death when he was talking about pensions. He said,
:28:16. > :28:19.when retirement comes to an end. Did you hear him say this? I didn't hear
:28:20. > :28:23.it. When retirement comes to an end. That is what happens now. We will
:28:24. > :28:29.break away entirely from this. It may come up in some other form. This
:28:30. > :28:32.is from Susan Wright, please. Are we witnessing the dawn of a new cold
:28:33. > :28:37.war with Russia as a result of imposing sanctions against them? It
:28:38. > :28:42.a new cold war we are facing with Russia? Yes. I think we might go
:28:43. > :28:45.further back than that. I think actually everyone has been rather
:28:46. > :28:50.brought up short by the fact that things that used to happen and used
:28:51. > :28:54.to provoke wars, going back some way now, can happen again, countries can
:28:55. > :28:58.annex another country. Russia can move in on the Crimea there is
:28:59. > :29:03.nothing very much that the US or the EU can do about it. We are left
:29:04. > :29:08.looking rather empty in our rhetoric and Putin is clearly away there is
:29:09. > :29:12.nothing very much we can do to follow-through. Do you say there is
:29:13. > :29:17.nothing we can do? If we have a sanctions war with them it won't do
:29:18. > :29:24.Russia any more harm with them than the rest of us. The Europe is
:29:25. > :29:28.terrifiified because countries are dependant on energy. Cyprus and
:29:29. > :29:31.Greece are dependant on Russian money am. They bought a lot of their
:29:32. > :29:36.debt. We don't have any prospect I think of having any kind of combined
:29:37. > :29:40.EU policy on how to deal with this. I don't think we will be able to do
:29:41. > :29:45.very much about it. I think it's a reflection of a long period of
:29:46. > :29:48.rather empty foreign policy in this country and indeed the Obama
:29:49. > :29:54.approach to foreign polling Sid, which is to talk big, but have very
:29:55. > :29:57.limited ability to do anything about it. We needed to think about these
:29:58. > :30:01.things when we have our defence reviews rather than just assume we
:30:02. > :30:07.don't have kind old fashioned war any more. We have to wonder whether
:30:08. > :30:12.it might be possible for Russia to expand its ambitions further and
:30:13. > :30:15.being complacent in assuming by forbidding someone to come to the G8
:30:16. > :30:18.that will be enough toll halt Putin's advance. I don't think it
:30:19. > :30:23.is. We need to really reassess what is we have been doing and the
:30:24. > :30:26.signals we have been giving in our foreign policy by threatening to get
:30:27. > :30:31.involved in Syria, but knowing we can't. Backing off. Putin saw that
:30:32. > :30:36.and he drew his own conclusions. No, I think it's potentially very
:30:37. > :30:41.serious, I think it should be a very sharp reminder to the US, to the EU
:30:42. > :30:44.in particular and to Britain that to go grandstanding on a world stage,
:30:45. > :30:47.when you have no ability to follow-through, very limited
:30:48. > :30:50.capacity to do anything about it, is perhaps not wise. Indeed, could be
:30:51. > :31:02.quite destabilising. Thank you. The former Conservative Foreign
:31:03. > :31:07.Secretary said that the EU's reaction was pathetic and feeble. Do
:31:08. > :31:13.you agree with that? Do you think the Government and the EU are doing
:31:14. > :31:16.the right thing? They are very limited options. One of the things,
:31:17. > :31:20.something we should not be doing, is going down a knee-jerk reaction of
:31:21. > :31:23.saying it is the Cold War all over again. I think it is much more
:31:24. > :31:28.complicated. I think the Joe yoe politics are more complicated. I
:31:29. > :31:37.think part is a hangover from the Soviet system where the Russians put
:31:38. > :31:42.their own level of people into all the Soviet republics to run them for
:31:43. > :31:47.mother Russia. Those people got left behind. Those people are now under
:31:48. > :31:55.pressure culturally, where they got left behind. This is them saying to
:31:56. > :31:59.Putin, you are the strongman, do something. I don't think it is a
:32:00. > :32:02.land grab, we have to find a different way of approaching this. I
:32:03. > :32:07.am not a politician. I don't know the answers. It is more than saying,
:32:08. > :32:10.let's do these sanctions. Maybe the way we resolved the Balkans might
:32:11. > :32:15.show us a different way of coming at this, although I'm not sure what it
:32:16. > :32:20.would be? Kosovo? Maybe not that one.
:32:21. > :32:23.Well I do think it is pathetic and feeble and I think if the UK
:32:24. > :32:30.Government don't intervene, it is going to have a destabilising impact
:32:31. > :32:35.in the Balkans. I served 22 years and this is' what I believed. What
:32:36. > :32:40.would you do? I think Val is right. It is more complicated than going
:32:41. > :32:43.back to the gold war. It seems to me Putin is trying to have it both
:32:44. > :32:47.ways. He wants to strut the world stage at the Sochi games, getting
:32:48. > :32:51.the respect, supposedly of the international community for hosting
:32:52. > :32:55.that, and days later, wants to invade the Sovereign territory of a
:32:56. > :32:59.neighbouring country. He can't have it both ways. I think he is trying
:33:00. > :33:03.to call everyone's bluff. He is saying - take May on if you dare. I
:33:04. > :33:08.think, you know, I welcome what Obama has said today. I think the
:33:09. > :33:12.Obama foreign policy is a big improvement, actually on his
:33:13. > :33:20.predecessor and he isp toughening the rhetoric. -- he is. I would say
:33:21. > :33:24.- we had the Sochi Winter Olympics, 2018 we are supposedly all going to
:33:25. > :33:27.the World Cup in Russia. Now, are we comfortable with that idea? Let's do
:33:28. > :33:31.something that the ordinary Russian on the street will understand. I
:33:32. > :33:36.can't see how we should all now just say... You think cancelling the
:33:37. > :33:40.World Cup will make a difference? I'm just saying, on every level we
:33:41. > :33:45.have to send a different message and we have to be prepared to take him
:33:46. > :33:50.on. I would say it is FIFA's decision but they need to revisit
:33:51. > :33:53.that. He can not pretend he is part of the club, strutting the world
:33:54. > :33:58.stage and taking steps like this, that are fundamentally in violation
:33:59. > :34:02.of international law. We are part of NATO. NATO was set up to stop
:34:03. > :34:05.Russian expansionism. I have not heard NATO mentioned by any
:34:06. > :34:11.politicians was wrefr. We want it seem to use economic sanctions. --
:34:12. > :34:16.bhasever If we -- whatsoever. If we pulled together as NATO and invited
:34:17. > :34:20.Ukraine to join us, Russia would stop.
:34:21. > :34:26.Danny Alexander, Just wait a second, you don't have a microphone.
:34:27. > :34:29.I would say this is an incredibly serious situation, because what you
:34:30. > :34:34.are saying s a violation of international law, the sort that we
:34:35. > :34:40.haven't seen for many decades in our hinterland in Europe. One country
:34:41. > :34:44.invading, annexing a piece of territory from another Sovereign
:34:45. > :34:49.state is a serious thing. This isn't some far away country where we can
:34:50. > :34:53.just stand idly by. We have to make sure we speak with one voice in
:34:54. > :34:55.yumplt it is, of course, difficult sometimes because we have 28
:34:56. > :34:59.different countries to pull together. -- in Europe. But we as
:35:00. > :35:04.Britain as lone do not have the influence by ourselves to thing
:35:05. > :35:08.this, but the European Union is Russia's major trading partner. A
:35:09. > :35:12.major customer for energy industry. I think the sanctions the Americans
:35:13. > :35:15.have put in place, the further saengess is very well. There is a
:35:16. > :35:19.European summit going on at the moment. -- further sanctions. What
:35:20. > :35:25.would you like to see Europe do? At the moment, the reaction from Moscow
:35:26. > :35:31.is to street them as a joke. A cause of irony and sarcasm.
:35:32. > :35:37.Putin's advisor said the only thing that interested him about America is
:35:38. > :35:43.Ginsberg and Jackson Pollock. Well, I don't know about that but what is
:35:44. > :35:48.on the agenda at the European Council tonight and tomorrow is a
:35:49. > :35:54.stiffening of sanctions, more embarrows against people and asset
:35:55. > :35:59.freezes. To take on Jill's point we have to potentially move to
:36:00. > :36:03.targeting the economic area. Russia's economy is heavily
:36:04. > :36:08.dependent on exports and so on. If we move to the next stage when
:36:09. > :36:12.sanctions haven't been effective, we need to move to more targeted and
:36:13. > :36:17.economic trade issues that. Might hurt us but it'll hurt the Russians
:36:18. > :36:22.more, and will send a strong message that what they are doing, violating
:36:23. > :36:26.international law, is not acceptable. Do you think Europe can
:36:27. > :36:29.agree on a common policy? There are 28 different interests. Doesn't it
:36:30. > :36:33.demonstrate the limitations of trying to work with Europe and have
:36:34. > :36:35.a common policy? The opposite. I think you are Europe has a strong
:36:36. > :36:38.common interest in the rule of international law. We cannot say
:36:39. > :36:41.international law stops at the boundaries of the European Union.
:36:42. > :36:46.That would be to go back to a 19th century way of looking at T Does
:36:47. > :36:51.that mean a European Defence Force will move in? ? We have to work hard
:36:52. > :36:56.to get agreement. That's what we are doing today. Seeing strong signals
:36:57. > :36:59.from the Germans, frechl and so on, that we are killing to move to the
:37:00. > :37:02.next stage. -- French. We have agreed at a European level a staged
:37:03. > :37:05.approach, escalating sanctions and we need to make sure we
:37:06. > :37:12.follow-through. Do you see it, as the way the questioner is asking,
:37:13. > :37:16.the dawn of a new Cold War? I agree with Val. I don't think you can
:37:17. > :37:20.express it as is employsically as that. But I think it is one of the
:37:21. > :37:26.biggest challenges for the framework of international law and regulation
:37:27. > :37:33.that we have seen. -- simplistically. We don't know if
:37:34. > :37:38.Putin is doing this domestically. He is weak at home. I agree with
:37:39. > :37:44.Malcolm Rifkind, the I's response has been sof riffic at best and not
:37:45. > :37:48.nearly with enough teeth. I think we should be kicking them out of the G8
:37:49. > :37:53.and the Council of Europe or suspend them and the sapgss should be
:37:54. > :37:56.tougher with the threat, a week ago of trade sanctions. -- and the
:37:57. > :38:02.sanctions should be tougher. We need to know how to get out of this and
:38:03. > :38:04.not into it. Russia has a point about Ukraine, if you look at
:38:05. > :38:10.Finland and neutrality that should be on the table to assuage the
:38:11. > :38:14.legitimate concerns and you can look at the illegitimate ones. The young
:38:15. > :38:18.lady here is saying the interim government is Ukraine is not the
:38:19. > :38:22.most enlightened. You put it a different way. Not the most
:38:23. > :38:29.enlighten enlightened bunch of leaders.
:38:30. > :38:34.So they have to be pushed to reach compromise and Putin knows there is
:38:35. > :38:38.a price to pay and a clear mix of carrots and sticks for the steps he
:38:39. > :38:43.needs to take next. The woman behind? They are talking about Putin
:38:44. > :38:47.and Russia trespassing into the Ukraine and Crimea but the people of
:38:48. > :38:51.Crimea actually asked for his help. Their leader went to Russia for help
:38:52. > :38:56.and the people of Crimea wanted to go to Russia. The same as the people
:38:57. > :39:01.of the Falklands wanted to stay part of Britain rather than Argentina.
:39:02. > :39:08.Who are we to butt in and tell them how to do things? Rather than token
:39:09. > :39:13.gestures around sporting veents or other international events like that
:39:14. > :39:16.-- events - I find myself agreeing with Danny Alexander, there has to
:39:17. > :39:23.be enforceable, diplomatic economic sanctions. Ironically, Russian's own
:39:24. > :39:27.sanctions, regarding energy, would damage what slr a Frank tile
:39:28. > :39:31.economy. They may end up shooting themselves in the foot. -- would
:39:32. > :39:33.damage what is already a fragile economy.
:39:34. > :39:38.Would you like to pick up that point, about the overwhelming wish
:39:39. > :39:51.of the people of Crimea? You have to be careful to treat in anyway
:39:52. > :39:54.legitimate or serious, to take a referendum that was organised it at
:39:55. > :39:59.the point of a gun in 11 days. Do you dispute what Putin says, 82%
:40:00. > :40:03.voted and 96% voted in favour I think there is no evidence it was a
:40:04. > :40:07.referendum conducted in a free and fair way. Therefore, I don't think
:40:08. > :40:12.you can take that argument seriously, otherwise you would say -
:40:13. > :40:16.any country can run into some other country, organise a trumped-up
:40:17. > :40:24.referendum with a few days' notice and say they are being invited in.
:40:25. > :40:30.But Ukraine don't conduct their own affairs that well. The point about
:40:31. > :40:34.NATO. If Ukraine joined NATO that would be disastrous. Where are the
:40:35. > :40:39.UN? Ban Ki-Moon making a token appearance in Russia, a farce. Why
:40:40. > :40:43.weren't they there three weeks ago when a democratically-elected
:40:44. > :40:47.government in Ukraine were overthrown by a main or the? I will
:40:48. > :40:57.move on. Thank you to the audience for their contributions. I will go
:40:58. > :41:02.on to Naomi Capper. With teachers now working an average
:41:03. > :41:07.of almost 60 hours per week and only one-third of those spent actually
:41:08. > :41:11.teaching children, can the panel understand why many no longer wish
:41:12. > :41:20.to remain in the profession? You are a teacher. Do you want to leave? I,
:41:21. > :41:26.like many teachers, I love my job. I I'm very privileged to do my job. I
:41:27. > :41:30.spend the majority of my time with the children, watching them grow,
:41:31. > :41:37.nurturing them and I see a lot of things that their parents don't see.
:41:38. > :41:43.But Your problem is that of the 60 hours... The 60 hours... That most
:41:44. > :41:51.of the time is not spent teaching. It is form-filling, ticking boxes.
:41:52. > :41:54.Analysing data. Getting ready for it change after change after change.
:41:55. > :42:01.Danny Alexander, is that the position? Well, I think that most
:42:02. > :42:05.teachers are lake you - that I know, they are utterly dedicated
:42:06. > :42:10.professionals, who want to see the children in their classes doing as
:42:11. > :42:14.well as possible and work incredibly thoord do that. I pay credit do you
:42:15. > :42:19.and your colleagues for what you do. - in incredibly hard to do that.
:42:20. > :42:21.There is a problem about too much bureaucracy and rules in the
:42:22. > :42:25.classroom which you have drawn attention to. That's why we are
:42:26. > :42:28.trying to give more fliblingts and freedom to headteachers. -- more
:42:29. > :42:32.flexibility. To make sure the school is organised in the right way. Why
:42:33. > :42:37.we have put more money into schools through the pupil premium. Michael
:42:38. > :42:41.Gove has had four years to get rid of the things that are complained
:42:42. > :42:46.about. Form-filling, the most common reason given for the hours that they
:42:47. > :42:50.work. Michael Gove strikes me as the kind of person who would object to
:42:51. > :42:53.that And there is more to be done. The point I was going to make is we
:42:54. > :42:56.are also trying to make sure that every child leaves school with the
:42:57. > :43:04.best-possible skills and education to get on in life. One assumes that.
:43:05. > :43:08.That's why we are skewing reforces more towards kids from the most
:43:09. > :43:12.disadvantaged backgrounds because over decades we have seen far too
:43:13. > :43:16.many children leaving school. You are not answering the question. I
:43:17. > :43:21.am. I'm talking about how resources going into schools are skewed
:43:22. > :43:27.towards enabling teachers like Naomi to do what they want to do, to
:43:28. > :43:32.devote to the kids... Why are they spending 40 hours form-filling and
:43:33. > :43:38.only 20... I don't know if the survey is accurate? Well, it is a
:43:39. > :43:44.Department of Education survey of primary schools. I maybe wrong.
:43:45. > :43:48.Michael Gove might have actually got the survey wrong. I have not seen
:43:49. > :43:52.the details of the survey. I will not go into the detail. I'm saying
:43:53. > :43:55.we are trying to make sure teachers have more time to spend,
:43:56. > :43:59.particularly with the kids who need the help most. Jill Kirby? I think
:44:00. > :44:03.it demonstrates how very hard the Government needs to work to try to
:44:04. > :44:08.row Bakke on some of the form-filling that has accrued over
:44:09. > :44:11.the many years. -- row back. We couldn't trust people to do things
:44:12. > :44:15.and everything had to be established in wrieteding. I think Michael Gove
:44:16. > :44:17.have made moves in the right direction by giving more
:44:18. > :44:21.independence to schools. But actually the coalition for a
:44:22. > :44:27.Liberal-Conservative organisation, which ought to be more liberalising,
:44:28. > :44:33.has been frightened about getting rid of CRB checks and databases
:44:34. > :44:37.without which nobody is trust to do anything, so amongst not only
:44:38. > :44:45.teachers but social workers and public servants, the compulsion to -
:44:46. > :44:50.write it down and have forms to fill in about somebody's rediness before
:44:51. > :44:55.you hand them on to a preschoof school to primary school, has driven
:44:56. > :45:03.many good early years workers away from the profession. I think Michael
:45:04. > :45:07.Gove has been trying to work in that direction but there is still a lot
:45:08. > :45:12.of paper work going on in the early years. We must become, as a nation,
:45:13. > :45:17.less reliant on having everything written down and on a day tie base
:45:18. > :45:21.and less willing to let people trust each other and form an understanding
:45:22. > :45:24.of a child's needs and use their common sense rather than have having
:45:25. > :45:32.tab lighted and everything to pass a set of regulations.
:45:33. > :45:39.On form-filling and when the Conservatives came in last time,
:45:40. > :45:45.they introduced form-filling in hospices. A dedicated nurse, a very
:45:46. > :45:50.good friend of our, who dedicated nine/ten years of her life looking
:45:51. > :45:56.after patients that will not be there much longer was told, if you
:45:57. > :46:00.don't fill that paperwork out. You have lost your job. Andy Burnham was
:46:01. > :46:07.Health Secretary under Labour, what do you make - not perhaps that
:46:08. > :46:11.point, the education point and the general principle of filling in
:46:12. > :46:15.forms. It happens at the BBC? I will not say there wasn't frustrations
:46:16. > :46:18.when we were in Government. The big point I make, I recognise the
:46:19. > :46:24.disillusionment you are speaking of. My brother is a secondary school
:46:25. > :46:31.teacher here in Warrington. An excellent school Birchwood High
:46:32. > :46:35.School, he feels disill Lewesed he has seen affects of the Michael Gove
:46:36. > :46:42.reforms on the ground. They are soul destroying. A free school arrived
:46:43. > :46:46.even though there were ur surplus places in Warrington. That
:46:47. > :46:49.destabilised - All school results have improved under Michael Gove's
:46:50. > :46:54.regime. Have you to acknowledge that children who were making poor
:46:55. > :46:59.headway are making better progress. So I think to ignore that, Andy,
:47:00. > :47:05.claim everything was good before mg got busy is to misrepresent the
:47:06. > :47:08.situation. Mitt My point was, I don't think they understand actually
:47:09. > :47:15.how good some of the state schools there are in places like Warrington
:47:16. > :47:20.and, I want to make this point, what we had here is a Secretary of State
:47:21. > :47:25.who came in, testing for phonics in primary schools. It was about the
:47:26. > :47:30.English Baccalaureate prescribing what subjects were acceptable and
:47:31. > :47:33.those were not. It has been an elitist agenda. Kids not taking the
:47:34. > :47:37.English Baccalaureate subjects have been pushed to one side. The Michael
:47:38. > :47:40.Gove agenda to me, for me, is about some children in some schools, not
:47:41. > :47:44.all children and all schools. That, for me, is why it's fundamentally
:47:45. > :47:49.flawed. Let us go back to the question. The question is about the
:47:50. > :47:53.burden on teaching. I go back to the questioner? Speaking on behalf of
:47:54. > :47:59.schools, I would say that I think Michael Gove has lost sight that the
:48:00. > :48:05.most important resources are -- a school has are the children in the
:48:06. > :48:08.school, enthusiastic teachers who aren't completely exhaust and the
:48:09. > :48:13.support of the families of the children in the school. It doesn't
:48:14. > :48:19.necessarily come to money, it comes down to people who have the energy
:48:20. > :48:22.to do the job properly. You think it's the bureaucracy that is zapping
:48:23. > :48:28.the energy? I have been a teacher for 10 years, now that I have my own
:48:29. > :48:32.family I feel that I can't be an effective parent and an effective
:48:33. > :48:38.full-time teacher. I can't see myself doing this at 60 or 65. The
:48:39. > :48:43.man in the pink shirt up there, then I will come to you. Do you think we
:48:44. > :48:49.should go back to educating children instead of forming committees and
:48:50. > :48:55.so-called experts and filling forms in, like it was in my day? When we
:48:56. > :49:04.went to school and we were educated. Now they are all filling forms in
:49:05. > :49:07.for hours on end? Dominic. I sit on the Education Committee in the House
:49:08. > :49:15.of Commons that scrutinises policy. The key thing here is that we know
:49:16. > :49:19.that on the international rankings that notwithstanding the money that
:49:20. > :49:23.went in under Labour, 15-year-olds plummeted on the rankses for
:49:24. > :49:27.numeracy literacy and science. The key is good teaching. Aunderstand
:49:28. > :49:32.the frustrations with red tape that has been expressed. We are trying to
:49:33. > :49:36.bring in reforms like performance-related play to
:49:37. > :49:42.encourage teachers and make them feel properly rewarded. Can I finish
:49:43. > :49:51.the point. Don't teach for the excellent wages. You should know
:49:52. > :49:54.that! -- teachers don't teach for the excellent wages. You should know
:49:55. > :49:58.that! It's not all about the money. We know that. The international
:49:59. > :50:03.evidence. We had the Head of the OECD education guy come, in the key
:50:04. > :50:06.is to great teaching is a better structure for the profession.
:50:07. > :50:10.Greater autonomy in schools. That is what the free school and the academy
:50:11. > :50:13.programme is about. He was firm about this, very rigorous
:50:14. > :50:18.inspections. All of these things we are trying to introduce to boost the
:50:19. > :50:21.standards of teaching. We equip our young people with the skills they
:50:22. > :50:27.need to make the best of themselves and the economy. You end up with 20
:50:28. > :50:31.hours teaching out of 60 hours working as a teach sner I accept the
:50:32. > :50:34.point you don't want unnecessary form-filling, you want greater atomy
:50:35. > :50:39.along with those inspections. That is the formula. The person in the
:50:40. > :50:43.blue shirt there. Then you, sir. I have been teaching for 20 years,
:50:44. > :50:49.politics must just come out of education. I don't -- heaven knows
:50:50. > :50:53.how many Education Secretaries have come and go. They want to promote
:50:54. > :50:58.their careers, they have to bring in a new idea each time. As teachers we
:50:59. > :51:05.have to deal with those ideas. You are cynical about Secretary of State
:51:06. > :51:09.for Education? Yes, just let teachers teach. That is all we want.
:51:10. > :51:12.APPLAUSE Let teachers teach. We just went to
:51:13. > :51:16.school and got taught? That is what I was about to say, your point
:51:17. > :51:19.there. People who have the gift for teaching do not necessarily have a
:51:20. > :51:24.gift for administration. People who have a gift for administration do
:51:25. > :51:28.not necessarily have a gift for teaching in the classroom. Why is it
:51:29. > :51:31.we expect people to have a skill for it teaching to have the skill for
:51:32. > :51:33.administration. Why can't we separate the functions. Some
:51:34. > :51:38.administration is necessary. Give that to people who like filling in
:51:39. > :51:41.forms and doing assessments, let the teachers who can teach, who have a
:51:42. > :51:45.gift for dealing with pupils in the classroom, let them teach and do
:51:46. > :51:48.what they are best at. You get the best results out of people when they
:51:49. > :51:52.can examiner countries their talents and skills to the maximum. A very
:51:53. > :51:57.brief point. I want to gate last question in. That is a really
:51:58. > :52:00.important point. There is a contradiction. Michael Gove is
:52:01. > :52:04.piling bureaucracy on some schools, but to free schools he is saying,
:52:05. > :52:07.can you employ unqualified teachers and opt-out of the national
:52:08. > :52:09.consider. That doesn't seem to be right to me. There is a
:52:10. > :52:22.contradiction of the heart of education. Are you U turning on the
:52:23. > :52:27.U-turn now? The point says we should idealise the past of our education
:52:28. > :52:32.isn't right. We shouldn't be saying things were better 20, 30, 4 o 0
:52:33. > :52:35.years ago, we should look at what other countries around the world are
:52:36. > :52:39.doing. If you look at the education system in European countries and
:52:40. > :52:42.south Korea, teaching people more languages than we teach in this
:52:43. > :52:49.country. Teaching - You said would you make a quick point. You have
:52:50. > :52:56.made it. Thank you very much. James Waring. Is it time the BBC reviewed
:52:57. > :53:00.its licence policy as suggested this week by Noel Noel Edmonds. Said the
:53:01. > :53:03.licence fee is no longer appropriate. He wants to buy the
:53:04. > :53:10.BBC. I don't know where he would get the money from that. Licence fee? I
:53:11. > :53:15.think with the move towards taking more of those services online, I
:53:16. > :53:20.think there is an inherent problem. I think inevitably over the
:53:21. > :53:26.long-term they will have to move to a subscription model. With the BBC
:53:27. > :53:29.you still have a public subsidy to fill that public... That sort of
:53:30. > :53:32.quality television and radio gap that otherwise you wouldn't get in
:53:33. > :53:37.the marketplace. I still think there is a need for that and an important
:53:38. > :53:40.case for protecting it. The BBC, like everyone else, has to move with
:53:41. > :53:44.the times. How quickly it will happen, how contentious it will be,
:53:45. > :53:51.I'm not sure. I think it's almost inevitable. You, sir, up there. I
:53:52. > :53:57.work abroad. I watch occasionally BBC World Service, there is Toye
:53:58. > :54:02.advertising on that season. -- advertising on that season. If the
:54:03. > :54:07.BBC isn't supposed to advertise, why is it advertising on its Worldsome
:54:08. > :54:13.service? It doesn't go to the licence payer, that is why. Oh. They
:54:14. > :54:20.are allowed to flog the product. It's the BBC? Yes it is. Should the
:54:21. > :54:24.licence fee end? We should move to the subscription model and a slimmed
:54:25. > :54:29.down version of the BBC. Keeping Question Time, obviously! Very
:54:30. > :54:34.necessary. Can you all applaud this.
:54:35. > :54:40.Plagues Thank you. Very significant point.
:54:41. > :54:44.When you look at things only the BBC can do and the stuff that the BBC
:54:45. > :54:47.does do, much of which is it could do commercially and in some cases
:54:48. > :54:51.does, the licence fee payer doesn't see much of that. You look at the
:54:52. > :54:56.things the BBC is doing which could be on commercial TV. There is no
:54:57. > :55:00.justification for the BBC providing them as a niche. I would think
:55:01. > :55:04.everybody would get much betteral value if we moved to a subscription
:55:05. > :55:08.model. People could download what they want to watch or watch what
:55:09. > :55:14.they want to watch, pay-as-you-go. People are are paying too much for
:55:15. > :55:19.the TV they consume. A big imowe potion on a family budget, you talk
:55:20. > :55:25.about people going to food banks, when you think of what they are
:55:26. > :55:30.forking out for BBC. Than watching Sky? If Sky can get away with what
:55:31. > :55:36.it charges, then I'm sure the BBC could. Another argument for
:55:37. > :55:40.subscription model. I'm disturbed to be agreeing with Dominic. There are
:55:41. > :55:44.many ways in which we should pay for what we consume and the whole issue
:55:45. > :55:48.of iPlayer, watching again, people having, and putting a subscription
:55:49. > :55:53.model would allow people to watch overseas when they can't watch
:55:54. > :55:59.stuff. There needs to be a safeguard of the core functions of public
:56:00. > :56:04.service broadcasting which a commercial broadcaster that will not
:56:05. > :56:08.do. There isn't a broadcaster who does the kind of things at the core
:56:09. > :56:12.in terms of what the BBC does in terms of its public broadcasting. Do
:56:13. > :56:16.you think everybody should have a television set should in the next
:56:17. > :56:22.period, when the charter comes up, be expelled to pay a sum of money to
:56:23. > :56:26.the BBC to keep it going or risk being tang to court It may come out
:56:27. > :56:31.of general taxation so everybody who consumes it, however we consume it,
:56:32. > :56:39.puts something in into it. 608 seconds left for your answers. To to
:56:40. > :56:44.Noel Edmonds I will say no deal! I think that we, I think the BBC is
:56:45. > :56:51.one of the jewels in the crown. I think the licence fee is the right
:56:52. > :56:54.way to pay for, it sharing the cost across the population. I would keep
:56:55. > :56:58.it and make sure the next charter protects the independence of the
:56:59. > :57:02.BBC. You have 30 seconds. Here is a note of unity to end the programme.
:57:03. > :57:05.I agree with what Danny just said. We are good in this country in
:57:06. > :57:10.running down the things that are best about, it the NHS, I would add
:57:11. > :57:14.the BBC. Renowned around the world. We would miss it terribly when it's
:57:15. > :57:18.gone. It's not about what you pay and get. They help to build the
:57:19. > :57:22.society where we are, where we can have debates like that and news that
:57:23. > :57:27.hasn't got a commercial slant on it. It's really, really important to our
:57:28. > :57:32.democracy. David, your job is safe with us! Your presence on the pan
:57:33. > :57:37.sell safe too. You did that in 30 seconds. We have to stop now, our
:57:38. > :57:48.hour is up. Apologies. Next week we will be in Brighton. We have Roman
:57:49. > :57:57.Abramovich -- Diane Abbott for Labour. The Chief Executive from
:57:58. > :58:05.Next and Mick Hucknell. Get with it! He is an old one, you should know.
:58:06. > :58:15.He is - I know! He will be here too. My pension will be coming to an end.
:58:16. > :58:22.OK. Mick Hucknell. The week after that we will be in Bristol. The two
:58:23. > :58:27.B's. Apply in the usual way, the website is on the scene. If you are
:58:28. > :58:32.listening to it on Five Live the debate goes on in Question Time
:58:33. > :58:37.Extra Time. Thank you to our panel, particularly those who picked me up
:58:38. > :58:44.on names I get wrong. Getting my own back. To all of you who came here to
:58:45. > :58:47.Warrington to take part. Until next Thursday on Question Time, from all
:58:48. > :58:51.of us here, good night.