:00:00. > :00:10.Election Night, voting closed at 10.00pm. We will soon have the first
:00:11. > :00:17.results. Tonight we are in Radlett and welcome to Question Time.
:00:18. > :00:22.And good evening to you at home, to our audience here who will be
:00:23. > :00:26.putting questions to our panel who, as ever, do not know what those
:00:27. > :00:30.questions are until they hear them. The Conservative Justice Secretary,
:00:31. > :00:33.Chris Grayling, Labour's Shadow Education Secretary, Tristram Hunt,
:00:34. > :00:38.the Liberal Democrat former Home Office Minister, Jeremy Browne,
:00:39. > :00:43.UKIP's Deputy Chairman, Neil Hamilton, the blogger, Jack Monroe,
:00:44. > :00:47.whose book about feeding her family while living on benefits became a
:00:48. > :00:49.bestseller, and the television presenter and property expert,
:00:50. > :01:06.Kirstie Allsopp. Thank you very much. Our first
:01:07. > :01:11.question is from Prisha Jobanputra. Does the increasing support for the
:01:12. > :01:16.UKIP indicate underlying racism? Increasing support for UKIP. Does it
:01:17. > :01:26.indicate underlying racism? Jack Monroe? Thanks(!) Well, I don't know
:01:27. > :01:32.enough about UKIP to be able to demonise them as an entire party.
:01:33. > :01:37.But the signs are worrying. The signs that so many of their members
:01:38. > :01:40.have come out as racist or homophobic, have come out with large
:01:41. > :01:45.blunders through the press. There was one UKIP candidate who said gay
:01:46. > :01:52.people shouldn't be allowed to have or adopt children, which stuck in my
:01:53. > :01:56.mind as a gay people with children. To come back to the question, a lot
:01:57. > :02:01.of UKIP candidates and people who claim to represent UKIP are racist,
:02:02. > :02:05.are loudly racist and their policies appear to be racist. I would say
:02:06. > :02:10.yes, it hints at underlying racism. But it plays on people's fears. No
:02:11. > :02:17.party is going to say, "I'm a racist party." It talks about Britain and
:02:18. > :02:21.British jobs and nationalism and extreme nationalism in a way that
:02:22. > :02:22.sells it as quite as an attractive proposition for people who don't
:02:23. > :02:36.know where else to turn. Tristram Hunt? I think UKIP and the
:02:37. > :02:39.rise of UKIP and votes for UKIP is about a politics of anger and a
:02:40. > :02:48.politics of alienation and whether they are racist or not, what we have
:02:49. > :02:52.to do is deal with the issues. The question was does the increasing
:02:53. > :02:57.support indicate underlying racism? They are guilty of inflammatory,
:02:58. > :03:01.ugly language. I have met lots of people on the doorstep who will be
:03:02. > :03:05.voting UKIP, who are not themselves racists. And that is why their
:03:06. > :03:10.politics speaks to this broader crisis we are seeing. Not just here
:03:11. > :03:14.in the UK. The fringe parties are getting votes across Europe. So, our
:03:15. > :03:20.solution in the Labour Party is to respond to this on policy terms and
:03:21. > :03:23.politics. In terms of the activism you see on the streets of England
:03:24. > :03:27.today, having conversations with voters. We have double the number of
:03:28. > :03:32.activists on the streets today. We don't want to know about Labour. We
:03:33. > :03:37.are talking about UKIP. We will come to Labour later on. We will beat
:03:38. > :03:41.them on their policies. Whether it is the minimum wage, or whether it
:03:42. > :03:46.is rents, or zero hours, that is how you deal with the alienation and the
:03:47. > :03:49.anger. Calling them names doesn't always get you to the right place.
:03:50. > :03:55.You have to engage with the politics. You said they were
:03:56. > :04:00.inflammatory and ugly. Their language is inflammatory and
:04:01. > :04:04.language. Neil Hamilton? It is very dangerous to fling racism around in
:04:05. > :04:09.a casual way. That is a very nasty thing. In certain circumstances,
:04:10. > :04:14.it's against the law. And UKIP is certainly not a racist party. If
:04:15. > :04:17.UKIP is racist, so are the 80% of the British public who agree with
:04:18. > :04:22.UKIP's line on immigration according to opinion polls. The Labour Party
:04:23. > :04:27.has very, very belatedly apologised publicly for its disastrous error in
:04:28. > :04:34.having an open door immigration policy in the period when it was in
:04:35. > :04:39.office between 1997 and 2010, when 3.2 million net addition to our
:04:40. > :04:43.population came about because of immigration producing all sorts of
:04:44. > :04:49.strains on public services, health, schools, transport, et cetera, et
:04:50. > :04:53.cetera. UKIP is not a cause, but a symptom of these problems. If it
:04:54. > :04:58.hadn't been for the failure of the establishment parties to control
:04:59. > :05:03.immigration into this country, then I don't suppose UKIP would have come
:05:04. > :05:06.into existence. Most of the concern that's been voiced during this
:05:07. > :05:10.European elections campaign, something which the Labour Party
:05:11. > :05:15.never want to talk about... We are delighted to talk about Europe. Let
:05:16. > :05:21.me finish my answer. We will come on to Europe. I'm more than up for
:05:22. > :05:27.that! Perhaps a bit later. It is the Labour Party's failure after 2004 to
:05:28. > :05:31.impose transitional controls which existed over most of the rest of
:05:32. > :05:38.Europe on Romania... OK. The issue of racism, Neil, can you address?
:05:39. > :05:41.But the issue is that people confuse being concerned about immigration
:05:42. > :05:47.with being a racist. That is the main point that I want to make, that
:05:48. > :05:52.you do not have to be a racist to be concerned about immigration.
:05:53. > :05:57.??FORCEDWHI Do you -- do you agree with that? To a certain extent, yes
:05:58. > :06:01.and no. Any of the political parties, there is going to be that
:06:02. > :06:05.element of racist element in there. My point is, the whole point of this
:06:06. > :06:09.race relations and everything, it was messed up in the 1950s, after
:06:10. > :06:15.the Second World War when we asked the people to come over and help us.
:06:16. > :06:20.Race relations, which those people received was never addressed. We are
:06:21. > :06:24.now living the back of what's happened because of UKIP. Because of
:06:25. > :06:28.people coming from the Caribbean? They weren't addressed, they weren't
:06:29. > :06:30.integrated properly. They played on people's fears. There are going to
:06:31. > :06:39.be groups which will be playing off the fears. I personally think - I
:06:40. > :06:41.can agree with what a lot of white Britons think because they think
:06:42. > :06:45.people are coming and taking their culture. As much as I want to
:06:46. > :06:49.respect my culture, you have to respect the people where you are as
:06:50. > :06:54.well. The woman in yellow? One of the reasons that I think people call
:06:55. > :06:57.UKIP a racist party is because unlike the mainstream parties, where
:06:58. > :07:03.we hear about all their policies, all we ever hear in conjunction with
:07:04. > :07:04.UKIP is immigration, Britain, not in Europe.
:07:05. > :07:14.You blame the way they put themselves forward? That's mainly,
:07:15. > :07:20.if not all, they talk about. Alright. That is not... I will come
:07:21. > :07:24.back to you. That is may be all that is broadcast or talked about... I
:07:25. > :07:27.have done dozens of public meetings up-and-down the country over the
:07:28. > :07:35.last few weeks. You will find that UKIP has a full range of policies
:07:36. > :07:43.and... What are those policies? Chris Grayling? If you would like to
:07:44. > :07:50.give me the rest of the programme... No. I think it's really... I have a
:07:51. > :07:55.copy of it here to read... The last manifesto? Yes. He didn't know what
:07:56. > :07:58.was in it. This was the manifesto. The other 400 pages were discussion
:07:59. > :08:03.documents that were published at the same time. Chris Grayling? It is
:08:04. > :08:06.really important that we don't conflate a legitimate argument about
:08:07. > :08:10.levels of immigration with a discussion about race. We are a
:08:11. > :08:13.multi-cultural society. We have been a multi-cultural society for a long
:08:14. > :08:18.time. The issues around immigration are to do with the ability of the
:08:19. > :08:22.country to absorb people with the implications for school places, for
:08:23. > :08:32.the Health Service, for the veilibility of -- availability of
:08:33. > :08:36.housing. We recognise the practical pressures it places on this country.
:08:37. > :08:44.That is a very different thing to talking about race. OK. What about
:08:45. > :08:48.UKIP? The question was whether UKIP's report indicates underlying
:08:49. > :08:51.racism? I don't believe fundamentally this is a racist
:08:52. > :08:56.country, though there is racism in this country. OK. Can I go back to
:08:57. > :09:01.Prisha Jobanputra? There is underlying racism. My kids
:09:02. > :09:05.experience it. I experience it. It is very soft. Unless you are an
:09:06. > :09:09.ethnic in this country, you don't realise. Especially if your colour
:09:10. > :09:10.is different, you don't realise. It does exist.
:09:11. > :09:23.Kirstie Allsopp? I think it does exist. I think you are right. I
:09:24. > :09:28.think that in comparison to other countries, we do reasonably well
:09:29. > :09:33.here. I think that Brits, as a whole, are - we are liberal people
:09:34. > :09:37.and there was a very, very funny comedy show on Radio Four where
:09:38. > :09:42.there was a black comedian talking about Brits trying to get it right
:09:43. > :09:45.and I think a lot of the time, people in this country are sensitive
:09:46. > :09:49.to other people's feelings and cultures and we try and get it
:09:50. > :09:55.right. I am very proud of that. The problem about the UKIP question that
:09:56. > :09:58.you raised is it is not just racism, it sexism, it is homophobia.
:09:59. > :10:10.I think Chris is right when he says we must not confuse concern about
:10:11. > :10:14.immigration, which I see in my work with people worried about housing a
:10:15. > :10:20.lot, with racism. At the same time, we have to say it loud and clear,
:10:21. > :10:24.there are supporters of UKIP who are profoundly sexist, racist and
:10:25. > :10:31.homophobic. And that is something we see on an almost daily basis. There
:10:32. > :10:35.was a UKIP funder, who was on Channel 4 News, and he sat there and
:10:36. > :10:39.he said openly... He is not a member of UKIP. He had given you money,
:10:40. > :10:45.Neil. And he said he didn't believe there was such a thing... Don't take
:10:46. > :10:49.money from people... You are dodging the question. You are talking about
:10:50. > :10:53.your view of particular people who represent as you say UKIP. The
:10:54. > :10:57.question was does the increasing support - and we know that is
:10:58. > :11:01.running at 25% - does that indicate - we will know tonight what it is -
:11:02. > :11:05.does that indicate underlying racism? Are you saying people who go
:11:06. > :11:09.for UKIP... The people who go for UKIP are turning a blind eye to some
:11:10. > :11:14.of the people who support UKIP. They are turning a blind eye. They are
:11:15. > :11:18.concerned about the things Jack and Chris spoke about. They are turning
:11:19. > :11:27.a blind eye to certain sup porters of UKIP supporters of UKIP. When the
:11:28. > :11:30.leader of a National Party comes out on a national radio station and
:11:31. > :11:34.describing the difference between Germans living next door and
:11:35. > :11:40.Romanians living next door, comes out with the answer, "You know what
:11:41. > :11:42.I mean," That can represent underlying racism in a party.
:11:43. > :11:50.The Conservatives in 2005 had the advertising slogan, "Are you
:11:51. > :11:55.thinking what we are thinking?" We have had the vans from the Coalition
:11:56. > :12:01.Government cruising multi-cultural parts of London saying, "Go home if
:12:02. > :12:05.you are illegal here." We had nine Labour councillors who resigned
:12:06. > :12:09.accusing their own party of "institutional racism." There is a
:12:10. > :12:14.lot of it about. Jeremy Browne? I want to talk about UKIP rather than
:12:15. > :12:18.throw insults at them. On one level, there is a perfectly legitimate
:12:19. > :12:21.argument for a political party that thinks we should leave the European
:12:22. > :12:24.Union. The choice that you would have had today would have been much
:12:25. > :12:28.more limited without UKIP being on the ballot paper. They are
:12:29. > :12:32.reasonable to talk about the restrictions or lack of restrictions
:12:33. > :12:36.on freedom of movement within the European Union. I disagree. When it
:12:37. > :12:40.comes to globalisation, our best prospects of being successful are to
:12:41. > :12:42.be outward-looking and internationalists. There is a
:12:43. > :12:48.legitimate opposite view and that is the view that UKIP put forward. That
:12:49. > :12:52.is not just what UKIP represent. I think the political classes if you
:12:53. > :12:55.like, and the media elite, need to understand the state of mind of
:12:56. > :13:00.quite a lot of people, particularly beyond London who are voting for
:13:01. > :13:04.UKIP. Some of them may be racist and sexist, I'm sure some of them are.
:13:05. > :13:07.But I think some of them object to being told the whole time by that
:13:08. > :13:12.elite what they should eat, what they should drink, what they should
:13:13. > :13:17.say, what they should believe in. I think Nigel Farage for quite a lot
:13:18. > :13:25.of those people is just a big two-finger stuck up to what they
:13:26. > :13:29.feel is an out of touch elite. They may be unreasonable, but the
:13:30. > :13:32.politicians in the other parties need to spend a bit of time
:13:33. > :13:38.reflecting if there is a protest vote why people are wanting to
:13:39. > :13:41.protest and not just bandy all of those people as being racist. Some
:13:42. > :13:46.of them I suspect are, but there is an onus on the establishment
:13:47. > :13:52.politicians to think what we can do to reconnect with the people. Why
:13:53. > :13:55.aren't they coming through... Why doesn't the Liberal Democrat Party
:13:56. > :13:59.appeal to people like that? I would like us to. Maybe we will come to
:14:00. > :14:00.talk about the Lib Dems as well. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. What
:14:01. > :14:11.is your answer? I think all politicians or a lot of
:14:12. > :14:15.politicians are guilty of not having the clarity and the appearance of
:14:16. > :14:19.authenticity that say Nigel Farage has, or for that matter Alex Salmond
:14:20. > :14:23.or even Boris Johnson. Quite a lot of politicians, you may like or
:14:24. > :14:26.dislike them, but people have a sense with them that they are tell
:14:27. > :14:30.you what they fundamentally believe in. Quite a lot of the mainstream
:14:31. > :14:36.Westminster politicians look like they are telling you what you want
:14:37. > :14:38.them to say and that's not the same. Pf
:14:39. > :14:41.APPLAUSE I notice you didn't mention Nick
:14:42. > :14:46.Clegg in your list of people who speak their mind. Well, do you want
:14:47. > :14:50.me to enlarge? No, I just didn't hear him mentioned It's made the
:14:51. > :14:55.most significant decision in my lifetime in British politics, which
:14:56. > :14:59.is to leave my party and to contribute to the rebuilding of our
:15:00. > :15:03.country. The man in spectacles there? The mainstream politicians
:15:04. > :15:09.are telling us, telling the NHS what they think the nation wants to hear,
:15:10. > :15:12.by pandering to the UKIP support that seems to be coming through. If
:15:13. > :15:18.UKIP have succeeded in anything, to my mind they have succeeded in
:15:19. > :15:22.bringing out the worst in people and their approach to politics. I don't
:15:23. > :15:28.think you can simply dismiss those who're going to vote for UKIP as
:15:29. > :15:31.just wrong-headed, misguided, the wrong heads in British society. They
:15:32. > :15:35.have genuine grievances about the nature of our economy, how it's
:15:36. > :15:39.delivering for working people, the mayture of our politics and what we
:15:40. > :15:42.have to do as politicians is come up with policy solutions to them, have
:15:43. > :15:45.the conversation with them, engage with them and not write them
:15:46. > :15:54.National Audit Office that way. I don't think that's right -- write
:15:55. > :15:58.them National Audit Office that way. I think perhaps policies need to
:15:59. > :16:02.change. That to me says you lack the courage and conviction. No, no no.
:16:03. > :16:08.And challenge what you could be saying because it's very, very
:16:09. > :16:13.dangerous. Challenge what they are saying through policies. Are there
:16:14. > :16:18.any specific UKIP supporters in the audience who'd like to speak? I
:16:19. > :16:23.heard a lot from the panel and the audience. I get very tired as being
:16:24. > :16:26.a member of society who's fearful and vulnerable. I'm a very well
:16:27. > :16:31.balanced member of society, OK. I don't need to be told who I'm voting
:16:32. > :16:36.for, whichever political party it may be may be wrong. Every single
:16:37. > :16:39.party has issues with some of their members and I'm not excusing UKIP
:16:40. > :16:45.for the members who're involved in it because I agree with Mr Hamilton,
:16:46. > :16:48.racism is totally wrong. I get tired of being told I'm a fearful member
:16:49. > :16:53.of society and I don't quite understand. The problem is that some
:16:54. > :16:58.of the issues that UKIP hit on transpire into local problems. For
:16:59. > :17:03.example, I live in Bishops Stortford, there are people who've
:17:04. > :17:08.lived in the town for 20, 30 years, who cannot get them into particular
:17:09. > :17:11.schools, immigration has a net effect on the town and they are the
:17:12. > :17:15.issues that people want to discuss, engage with in a very, very balanced
:17:16. > :17:18.way. So you don't want lectures from politicians on what you are thinking
:17:19. > :17:21.and why you are thinking it? No, because for all the main political
:17:22. > :17:24.parties, up in come from the moral high ground.
:17:25. > :17:28.APPLAUSE. That is precisely the point I was
:17:29. > :17:33.making, it's a discuss about practicalities in terms of
:17:34. > :17:37.immigration, it's about things like school places. Our job I think is
:17:38. > :17:44.not to throw mud in all directions, it's to earn people's support by
:17:45. > :17:50.setting out their agenda. But isn't that throwing mud? UKIP is now
:17:51. > :18:03.regarded, according to David Miliband as mainstream political
:18:04. > :18:07.party. Ed would that be? I always... LAUGHTER
:18:08. > :18:12.I mean Mr Ed, of course! Millions of people will tonight vote or have
:18:13. > :18:16.already voted for UKIP. I think it's the most grotesque libel upon
:18:17. > :18:21.millions and millions of decent working people in this country that
:18:22. > :18:26.they should be derided as home Phoebes, sexists, racists. The
:18:27. > :18:30.people who're voting for UKIP are doing so because they are worried
:18:31. > :18:35.about the future of their country and the pressures on their own
:18:36. > :18:38.lives. Mass immigration of the kind we have experienced is unprecedented
:18:39. > :18:44.in the whole of British history. More people came into this country
:18:45. > :18:51.in the 2010 alone between the 900 years between 1066 and 1950. Are you
:18:52. > :18:58.sure? ! Absolutely certain. That sounds a very dodgy statistic to me.
:18:59. > :19:03.On the migration website. It's an entirely independent think-tank. Sir
:19:04. > :19:09.Andrew Green, the chairman of it, is a former ambassador and he's a man
:19:10. > :19:19.of complete integrity. If you disagree, you can disprove it. I'm
:19:20. > :19:22.just querying it. Who can deny problems that have been caused by
:19:23. > :19:25.the scale and speed of immigration that's happened in the last 20
:19:26. > :19:31.years, it's caused massive wage compression, the GMB claims wages
:19:32. > :19:36.are at the bottom of the pay scale by 15%. This is not something
:19:37. > :19:40.recognised only by supporters of UKIP, it's recognised throughout the
:19:41. > :19:46.political spectrum, except by a lot of the mainstream politicians
:19:47. > :19:50.failing to give voice to people. Jack Munro? You have got your
:19:51. > :19:53.Migration Watch website that counts how many people come into the
:19:54. > :19:58.country. Do you have a facility that counts how many doctors leave this
:19:59. > :20:03.country, how many nurses, how many people, skills and trained... You
:20:04. > :20:09.can't talk about a net figure when you don't know how many people have
:20:10. > :20:13.left. You can. No, you can't. I don't want to argue this here, we
:20:14. > :20:18.have had the question of racism. I want to get through three or four
:20:19. > :20:25.questions tonight if we can. You can text or Twitter us:
:20:26. > :20:31.The red button will tell you what other people are saying. A question
:20:32. > :20:36.from Dave recallings, please? Will the latest rise in house prices
:20:37. > :20:41.leave a generation with no prospect of owning their own home? The house
:20:42. > :20:44.price rise much bigger in London than outside in the UK, than
:20:45. > :20:48.everywhere. Will it leave a generation with no prospect of
:20:49. > :20:52.owning their own home? You'd better answer this one, Kirstie, you know
:20:53. > :20:57.the answer. I don't know the answer and that's the problem. There is not
:20:58. > :21:00.a simple silver bullet which will shovelth solve this problem and
:21:01. > :21:04.politicians that are looking for headlines get it wrong again and
:21:05. > :21:13.again. There are lots of issues. Firstly, we need to build more, but
:21:14. > :21:14.it isn't just about building more. I support right-to-buy, but we should
:21:15. > :21:26.have built homes as we sold homes. Secondly, we have to look at a whole
:21:27. > :21:31.load of other issues which people never talk about in relation to
:21:32. > :21:36.housing. Many, many more people went to university last year than did 25
:21:37. > :21:41.dwraertion. -- years ago that. Means people are coming into their early
:21:42. > :21:45.20s with debt, they are coming into work later. We may be living longer,
:21:46. > :21:49.we may have more time at the end of their life, but the period of time
:21:50. > :21:53.in which we can marry and have children is still the same as it
:21:54. > :21:59.was, as a woman your fertility drops off a cliff age 35. Now, I see so
:22:00. > :22:02.many families in real pain because they have gone to university, they
:22:03. > :22:07.have started work later, they're average age of buying a first home's
:22:08. > :22:12.now gone almost over 30, only 6% of first time buyers are in their 20s.
:22:13. > :22:15.There are really important issues in society which aren't just related to
:22:16. > :22:20.housing. We have to address those. We can't just talk about the
:22:21. > :22:24.physicality of houses. Yes, more high streets should have property,
:22:25. > :22:30.residential property above them, yes we should build above all single
:22:31. > :22:34.storey out of town units. You can make some wonderful housing
:22:35. > :22:38.developments. There is some wonderful technology where you can
:22:39. > :22:41.build pods and put them on top of single storey units. I don't
:22:42. > :22:45.understand why you can't address housing as a single issue, that's
:22:46. > :22:48.what young people want, a house for their family? But the evidence is
:22:49. > :22:53.showing that isn't what young people want. They don't want houses? They
:22:54. > :22:57.don't want to settle and get a mortgage as early as they have
:22:58. > :23:01.previously. Society has changed. That is part of problem. It's not
:23:02. > :23:05.simply that houses are very expensive, they are very expensive
:23:06. > :23:10.in the south and the south-east, but there are areas around the country
:23:11. > :23:15.where the prices are not as high as they are near Radlett where young
:23:16. > :23:21.people are not enth engaging with the process. Yes, they are very high
:23:22. > :23:24.in Radlett. People have to lay their home somewhere? They are renting.
:23:25. > :23:30.The thing of wanting to leave school, perhaps get a post-A-level
:23:31. > :23:35.job, stay at home, save up, that has changed. So there isn't a housing
:23:36. > :23:41.crisis? Of course there is a housing crisis in the south-east. But the
:23:42. > :23:46.housing crisis is not simply about money, lending and lack of housing.
:23:47. > :23:50.It's about many wider issues. Tristram Hunt? We have a national
:23:51. > :23:54.obsession with property going back hundreds and hundreds of years and
:23:55. > :24:00.Kirstie has added to it very successfully. In a good way! And
:24:01. > :24:03.that's not going to change. Owning your own home and wanting to improve
:24:04. > :24:07.your home and wanting to buy a bigger home is a worthy aspiration
:24:08. > :24:12.and it's proving harder and harder. There is a demand you and supped my
:24:13. > :24:24.problem. We have had a government policy which has promoted further
:24:25. > :24:29.demand with the Help To Buy. Are you in favour of the Help To Buy? Yes
:24:30. > :24:33.that, made a real influence, I'm not convinced that you need a Government
:24:34. > :24:38.subsidy for ?6020,000 houses. I don't think that's necessary think
:24:39. > :24:41.best use of money -- ?600,000. We have a supply problem. We need to
:24:42. > :24:44.build more houses, get local authorities to put pressure on the
:24:45. > :24:51.developers to unlock some of the land. We need the garden cities and
:24:52. > :24:54.now tons. Aagree with densify and development on building upwards but
:24:55. > :24:59.we also I think need to look after those who do rent and have some
:25:00. > :25:02.proper policies for those who're being absolutely hammered on the
:25:03. > :25:05.rental charges and tenancies and we in the Labour Party have again some
:25:06. > :25:10.substantial policies on that because, to trourn the earlier
:25:11. > :25:20.discussion that,'s how you deal with the crisis of politics, come up with
:25:21. > :25:23.policies to help people. As a homeowner, it's not just about those
:25:24. > :25:26.getting on the ladder. If the interest rate rise comes, it's going
:25:27. > :25:30.to force people in their homes out of them because they won't be able
:25:31. > :25:33.to make their mortgage payments because they are going to be
:25:34. > :25:37.spending so much more on the properties and everyone talks about
:25:38. > :25:40.the people trying to buy, but what about the people who've already
:25:41. > :25:43.invested all their savings, working day and night to try and make the
:25:44. > :25:48.payments and they are going to find themselves trying to gate rental
:25:49. > :25:51.because they can't pay for their own home. When you took out your
:25:52. > :25:55.mortgage, did you think interest rates would stay at a low level? I
:25:56. > :25:59.was told to get a fixed rate because the rates would go up almost
:26:00. > :26:03.immediately that. Was four years ago, thank God I didn't because I've
:26:04. > :26:06.saved a fortune, but all that money's gone because everything else
:26:07. > :26:11.costs a fortune as well. If the rate does come in at a higher level, I
:26:12. > :26:15.will lose my house. You, Sir? I bought my house three years ago on a
:26:16. > :26:19.fixed rate on my own so I've got another two years on my property. I
:26:20. > :26:22.took a fixed rate because if the interest rates changed, like the
:26:23. > :26:27.gentleman pointed out, I would be ruined because I had my fixed income
:26:28. > :26:30.on myself. I've got another two year, I'll prove move and buy a
:26:31. > :26:35.bigger house, my partner is moving in with me, but the luck there is
:26:36. > :26:43.I've only paid what I can afford to pay. My mortgage is fixed. Can I
:26:44. > :26:49.ask, when you move, will you have to pay stamp duty at 3%? Ly Bill buying
:26:50. > :26:54.a more expensive home. That's a disgrace. That's one of the things
:26:55. > :26:58.can Government should do to help. The only way you will make a real
:26:59. > :27:01.difference is by bileding on green belt land and in places like this,
:27:02. > :27:06.the answer from the nay bours unfortunately is no. We do not need
:27:07. > :27:13.that. The answer from the neighbours is not my my doorstep. Would you
:27:14. > :27:18.like green belt land to be built on? Not on my doorstep.
:27:19. > :27:22.Chris Grayling? It's a difficult balance to find. We need more
:27:23. > :27:26.houses, no question. We have young people who're struck tolling get on
:27:27. > :27:30.the housing ladder because not enough houses are being built. It's
:27:31. > :27:34.clear that we need more. We'll have to be smart and innovative and
:27:35. > :27:38.Kirstie's right in some things she's proposed. If you fly over London you
:27:39. > :27:42.can see scope within the boundaries of London to build additional
:27:43. > :27:45.houses. The mayor is setting out plans to accept up the levels of
:27:46. > :27:50.developing in London. At the same time, it's important we don't end up
:27:51. > :27:54.destroying the countryside, in the south-east particularly with y the
:27:55. > :27:58.pressures are great. It takes smart decision-making by the local
:27:59. > :28:02.authorities, we have given them more control. I can see spots many my own
:28:03. > :28:06.constituency where development could happen and place where is nobody
:28:07. > :28:11.would want to it happen at all. Smart local decision-making, inknow
:28:12. > :28:15.vasive thinking in inner city areas about making better use of the land
:28:16. > :28:19.we have got, doing things Kirstie talks about, but there is no
:28:20. > :28:25.alternative to but to build more houses, and affordable houses.
:28:26. > :28:32.On the issue of the green belt, is your plan planning to say we should.
:28:33. > :28:37.Obsessed about landscape, all we need to do is build on 2-3% of land
:28:38. > :28:45.and we solve the housing problem. There was a lot of stick levelled
:28:46. > :28:49.for this. I could wander around my own constituency and find areas of
:28:50. > :28:54.open land where most people would say it's possible to develop. Half
:28:55. > :28:59.of an old mental hospital for example. Equally, there are other
:29:00. > :29:05.parts of my constituency where it would be mad to build houses, it's a
:29:06. > :29:08.part of the rural heritage. Is Nick flight the way he's putting it? He's
:29:09. > :29:56.expressed his own views. The woman at the back there? I would
:29:57. > :29:59.like to agree with Kirstie Allsopp's point on Stamp Duty thresholds. The
:30:00. > :30:03.Government could assist by increasing the thresholds so people
:30:04. > :30:10.who that tax was never designed to catch are taken out of it. I agree.
:30:11. > :30:13.There are a number of areas of taxation where I would love to see
:30:14. > :30:17.change. We are still dealing with a huge public deficit and there are
:30:18. > :30:20.things we can't do right now which I'm sure many people would love to
:30:21. > :30:23.be able to do in the future. It is not about a reduction. If you remove
:30:24. > :30:39.the slabbing at ?2 250,000. Instead of putting in money to p can
:30:40. > :30:42.right to Buy, the Government should have given more money to the housing
:30:43. > :30:47.associations to build affordable houses and secondly, particularly in
:30:48. > :30:52.areas where there is very high demand from overseas buyers like
:30:53. > :30:58.London, the Government should restrict the right for non-residents
:30:59. > :31:03.to buy in those areas. I'm talking about Denmark and Switzerland where
:31:04. > :31:06.that happens. A reform we introduced at the end of our period in
:31:07. > :31:10.Government was to allow councils to use their rental income to start
:31:11. > :31:16.building again. I think Kirstie Allsopp is right. One of the great
:31:17. > :31:20.errors under Right to Buy was not to use that money then to invest in
:31:21. > :31:25.housing stock and build... Jack Monroe? Kirstie Allsopp said the
:31:26. > :31:36.housing crisis isn't about money and lending. My housing crisis is about
:31:37. > :31:39.money and lending! I have ave had a period of unemployment for 18
:31:40. > :31:43.months. I have been in full-time work for ten years. I don't own a
:31:44. > :31:47.home. I have never been able to own a home. Today I decided to see what
:31:48. > :31:51.- knowing I was coming on here - to try to take out a mortgage with my
:31:52. > :31:57.bank that I have banked with for ten years. I put in my salary and I put
:31:58. > :32:01.in the average price of a two-bedroom flat and I got an error
:32:02. > :32:05.message that told me that at 0% interest I would never pay that
:32:06. > :32:09.mortgage off in my lifetime. And I went oh, that is a little bit
:32:10. > :32:13.rubbish. I work hard and I work long hours and I can't afford to buy
:32:14. > :32:18.myself a home. It's a bit of a Tory obsession with a property-owning
:32:19. > :32:21.democracy with David Cameron talking about deep, natural instincts to own
:32:22. > :32:25.your own home. I don't have a natural instinct to spend 100% of my
:32:26. > :32:29.wages on my mortgage, I want somewhere to live. I have lived in
:32:30. > :32:35.rented accommodation for ten years and I agree that people need homes,
:32:36. > :32:39.not necessarily houses. Living on a short tenancy where you can get
:32:40. > :32:43.booted out at six months, that is the thing we need to be looking at.
:32:44. > :32:47.We need to address two million on social housing waiting lists and ask
:32:48. > :32:51.when Thatcher sold off the social housing and ringfenced so people
:32:52. > :32:52.can't buy anymore, why we have two million people waiting for
:32:53. > :33:03.affordable housing. The answer to the original question
:33:04. > :33:07.is yes, in many cases. The social contract between the generations is
:33:08. > :33:11.being broken and there is a shortage of social housing and housing to
:33:12. > :33:15.buy. That is mainly because there is a constant upward pressure on
:33:16. > :33:19.demand, the population is growing strongly, the population has gone up
:33:20. > :33:23.by 4.5 million in the last decade. That is almost the population of
:33:24. > :33:28.Scotland. But also a lot more people are living on their own. One in 25
:33:29. > :33:33.houses were occupied by a single adult, now it is one in four. All of
:33:34. > :33:38.those have an upward pressure. The Government can take measures on
:33:39. > :33:41.Stamp Duty, Help to Buy, but the only way it can be addressed is to
:33:42. > :33:45.increase the supply. If we want to restore that link, that social
:33:46. > :33:48.contract between the generations, and it is not just young people,
:33:49. > :33:51.there's a lot of middle-aged people now who are unable to buy as well
:33:52. > :33:56.and have difficulty because they can't get a mortgage between the age
:33:57. > :33:59.of 65. If you come into your 40s and you haven't managed to buy at that
:34:00. > :34:02.stage, you might be struggling. If we want to do something fundamental
:34:03. > :34:06.about that, the biggest part of the answer is building more homes. OK.
:34:07. > :34:10.Neil Hamilton? I still live in a house at the age of 65 which is
:34:11. > :34:14.largely owned by the building society. And it is true that in
:34:15. > :34:18.Britain, compared with other European countries there is a much
:34:19. > :34:25.higher rate of homeownerships. There is the desire to, as I think David
:34:26. > :34:30.Cameron is quite right, there is a desire in people wanting to own
:34:31. > :34:34.their homes. . The population has increased by 4.5 million in the last
:34:35. > :34:39.20 years. Yes, and sit going to increase by another million in the
:34:40. > :34:46.next five years. The Office of National Statistics published the
:34:47. > :34:53.figures today which showed that net migration into Britain... Listen,
:34:54. > :34:57.you groan. Net migration is in addition to the existing population.
:34:58. > :35:01.That is a city the size of Manchester that we need to build in
:35:02. > :35:08.the course of the next five years in order to accommodate that alone.
:35:09. > :35:11.There's - the Government has put 375 billion into the economy through
:35:12. > :35:17.quantitative easing and that is driving prices up. The employment
:35:18. > :35:25.effects of that stimulus works through. It then finds its way out
:35:26. > :35:29.into other areas. The gentleman in the front row is right, that the
:35:30. > :35:33.elephant in the room in the property market is what happens when interest
:35:34. > :35:38.rates go up from their record low where they have been resting now for
:35:39. > :35:43.several years? When the Bank of England has to raise its interest
:35:44. > :35:48.rates from 0.5% to 1.5%, it is only a 1% increase, but it is an increase
:35:49. > :35:55.of three times the existing rate and that is going to produce massive
:35:56. > :36:00.problems for people. Thank you. I'm going to go on. We are over halfway
:36:01. > :36:06.through this edition of Question Time. Question from Shirley Herbert?
:36:07. > :36:12.Is Prince Charles right to compare Putin to Hitler? When you say that,
:36:13. > :36:17.are you saying is it a correct comparison? Or is he justified in
:36:18. > :36:22.his position in making it? Or both? I'm saying both. You are saying
:36:23. > :36:26.both? Tristram Hunt? Well, I think it was a private conversation, which
:36:27. > :36:32.was picked up by some creepy Daily Mail journalist, hiding behind a
:36:33. > :36:35.pillar. I don't generally believe everything that is written in the
:36:36. > :36:36.Daily Mail - which is a good rule for life!
:36:37. > :36:49.I do also think we should be careful about the inevitable comparisons
:36:50. > :36:54.with Hitler. Hitler was a man of world historic evil and we have this
:36:55. > :37:00.shorthand whether it was Saddam Hussein, or Putin, connecting them
:37:01. > :37:06.instinctively to Hitler. When you look at this language of aggrieved
:37:07. > :37:11.patriotism, when you look at the contempt for international bodies,
:37:12. > :37:18.there are uncomfortable echoes from the past. It is also noteworthy that
:37:19. > :37:24.so many fascist and Neo-Nazi parties across Europe are supporting Putin.
:37:25. > :37:30.The difference today is to the 1930s, is what we can do about it.
:37:31. > :37:36.And Russia can be addressed in some of its instincts by international
:37:37. > :37:39.economics. What is happening to the Russian economy is terrifying as a
:37:40. > :37:44.result of these interventions. We need to keep the diplomatic pressure
:37:45. > :37:48.on and on the day of the European elections, it is significant that
:37:49. > :37:51.the way we are going to deal with President Putin, the way we are
:37:52. > :37:56.going to deal with his aggression, is through the European Union which
:37:57. > :38:00.makes the case for a strong, diplomatic lead within Europe. We
:38:01. > :38:04.can't do it on our own anymore. We need that diplomatic presence
:38:05. > :38:10.through Europe. And can you answer the other half of Shirley's
:38:11. > :38:14.question? Is it right for the Prince of Wales now taking on more and more
:38:15. > :38:20.duties that the Queen did to be on an official visit to Canada and say
:38:21. > :38:23.this? There were a lot of journalists around? Is he right or
:38:24. > :38:29.wrong to make that kind of remark? It was a private conversation with
:38:30. > :38:35.an elderly Canadian lady over a cup of tea and who knows what context
:38:36. > :38:41.within which it took place. Again, I do not take as sacrosanct the
:38:42. > :38:47.writings of a Daily Mail hacker. Chris Grayling? I think it is wrong
:38:48. > :38:51.to report private conversations. We shouldn't end up in detailed
:38:52. > :38:55.discussion about them. We don't know what was said. There is nothing
:38:56. > :39:00.recorded. There's no quotes. It is a hearsay comment. I think people,
:39:01. > :39:04.even members of the Royal Family, have a right to private views. Of
:39:05. > :39:08.course, it is not right for a member of a constitutional monarchy to
:39:09. > :39:11.enter into a public debate, but that is not what is suggested to have
:39:12. > :39:14.happened here. I think members of the Royal Family need to be able to
:39:15. > :39:22.have conversations in private. We shouldn't get into commenting about
:39:23. > :39:27.them. As regards to what is happening in Russia, it is wrong. We
:39:28. > :39:31.have had for the last 70 or 80 years a body that has had a pretty good
:39:32. > :39:35.record in resisting actions at the Russian end which are not
:39:36. > :39:40.appropriate. It is called NATO. NATO, our partnership with the
:39:41. > :39:44.United States of America, the unified Western world should be
:39:45. > :39:46.willing to make it clear to the Russians that what is happening is
:39:47. > :39:51.not acceptable and we should be willing to stand by the Ukrainians
:39:52. > :39:57.who are facing a threat that they do not deserve. The man in the second
:39:58. > :40:04.row from the back? I think NATO has literally forced Putin to an extent
:40:05. > :40:08.into protecting Russia. Equally, Churchill 80 years ago said that
:40:09. > :40:13.appeasement of Hitler was going to be a terrible thing and was proved
:40:14. > :40:19.right. Putin is there to establish Russia as a power it was ten or 15
:40:20. > :40:26.years ago before glasnost. We have to be very, very careful how we
:40:27. > :40:33.react to him. I think he's not 100% personally. He's a power maniac. He
:40:34. > :40:40.wants Russia to be as Russia was. Is the comparison with Hitler a fair
:40:41. > :40:44.comparison? In my view, yes. If we ignore him and hide as we did 80
:40:45. > :40:51.years ago, we could have a problem in Europe. There are Neo-Nazis. You,
:40:52. > :40:55.Sir? Prince Charles is right to make statements private or public of a
:40:56. > :40:59.political nature on the basis that for years he has been vetoing
:41:00. > :41:05.legislation which hasn't got to Parliament. He is a public figure.
:41:06. > :41:12.He is a political figure. Therefore, we have a right to hear what he
:41:13. > :41:17.thinks before he becomes a King. In terms of Prince Charles saying it,
:41:18. > :41:23.he should. Is the comparison sound? There are lots of similarities. You
:41:24. > :41:26.are right, the point is we can change things now. Things are
:41:27. > :41:31.different. We have to be firm against Putin on the basis that if
:41:32. > :41:37.you are not firm against fascists, bad things happen. Neil Hamilton? I
:41:38. > :41:42.think it is absurd to categorise this as a private conversation
:41:43. > :41:46.because the heir to the throne having a conversation with somebody
:41:47. > :41:51.he has never met in his life before, it is not private because he can't
:41:52. > :41:57.control the use of whatever he might have said afterwards. We is all
:41:58. > :42:01.experienced similar situations. -- we have all experienced similar
:42:02. > :42:07.situations. One does have to be careful how one expresses oneself in
:42:08. > :42:17.situations like that. He was foolish, if I may say so, to get
:42:18. > :42:21.embroiled in such a discussion in Canada. As has happened, it was
:42:22. > :42:27.bound to have diplomatic implications for Britain. He is a
:42:28. > :42:32.constitutional figure. But he's got the right to make his views known as
:42:33. > :42:37.the gentleman in the second row was saying within the system and does
:42:38. > :42:43.so. He's an intelligent, sensitive, well-informed person. But his
:42:44. > :42:49.constitutional role precludes him from playing a public part in issues
:42:50. > :42:54.of that kind. I do think also it's wrong to compare Putin with Hitler.
:42:55. > :42:58.Hitler was a man who wanted to take over the entire continent of Europe
:42:59. > :43:05.by violence and to oppress the populations in order to impose the
:43:06. > :43:10.will of Germany as the master race. Putin is an autocratic Nationalist.
:43:11. > :43:20.It is true, but to compare him with Hitler, who wanted to wipe out the
:43:21. > :43:25.Jewish race , million Russians died in the Second World War. -- 26
:43:26. > :43:33.million Russians died in the Second World War. And we might dislike
:43:34. > :43:35.Putin, but nevertheless, there is nothing we can do about him. He is
:43:36. > :43:39.the President of Russia. We certainly don't have the military
:43:40. > :43:42.means to stop him doing what he wants to do. Ukraine didn't exist as
:43:43. > :43:47.an independent country for hundreds of years apart from three years in
:43:48. > :43:51.the 1920s until the collapse of the Soviet Union. The Crimea, which is
:43:52. > :43:59.now part of Russia again, was only given to Ukraine in 1954, 98% of the
:44:00. > :44:05.people of Crimea... Let's curtail this.
:44:06. > :44:12.Jack Munro? When I heard the news about what Prince Charles said about
:44:13. > :44:16.Putin, I did a little hurray inside and said, a lot of us are thinking
:44:17. > :44:20.it and he comes out with some clangors, but actually for once, he
:44:21. > :44:26.hit the nail right on the head. History tells us if we shy away from
:44:27. > :44:30.fascism or smooth-talking bully boys with, you know, that come and try
:44:31. > :44:35.and implement their regimes and policies and ideas that are nothing
:44:36. > :44:39.more than snake horn merchants selling something that's really
:44:40. > :44:44.quite horrible and the guise of a sharp suit or decent policy, before
:44:45. > :44:48.you know it, they are bigger than you can deal with. What we need to
:44:49. > :44:52.do with people like Putin who I've become about five inches of in my
:44:53. > :44:56.life and am still getting over it, what you need to do is stand up to
:44:57. > :45:04.them, tell them what they are and not be afraid of standing up to
:45:05. > :45:07.them. APPLAUSE
:45:08. > :45:17.When did you come within five inches of him? At the G8 Summit. T.- I
:45:18. > :45:21.think that while this comparison may be true, maybe not true and people
:45:22. > :45:25.will have different opinions on whether Putin is like Hitler, what
:45:26. > :45:30.has changed is what the rest of the world is and now with structures
:45:31. > :45:34.like the United Nations, there's a lot less chance of something of a
:45:35. > :45:38.Hitler size and scale happening again. With regards to Prince
:45:39. > :45:42.Charles, everyone in this room and in the world is entitled to their
:45:43. > :45:46.own opinion and whether or not it's a private conversation, we should
:45:47. > :45:51.all say what we want and that's his upon and we have differing opinions
:45:52. > :45:55.and he has as much right as anybody else to say it.
:45:56. > :46:00.Jeremy Browne, sorry, there are six of us here and I'm stopping you.
:46:01. > :46:05.When it comes to admiration of Putin, I'm nearer the Prince Charles
:46:06. > :46:08.end of the scale than I am the Nigel Farage end of the scale.
:46:09. > :46:14.APPLAUSE But I do think the Hitler
:46:15. > :46:17.comparisons are overblown. It's likely Hitler will have won the
:46:18. > :46:19.Second World War without many millions of Russians dieing in the
:46:20. > :46:25.cause of stopping themth him. We have to be careful about banding
:46:26. > :46:28.around the Hitler comparisons. But Putin's nationalism is a concern and
:46:29. > :46:33.a threat in the time that we live and I agree with the last person who
:46:34. > :46:37.spoke about the need to make sure we have an outward looking, engaged
:46:38. > :46:39.nationalist stance and we use the United Nations and the European
:46:40. > :46:43.Union and NATO and other institutions to make sure that we
:46:44. > :46:48.keep world order in Europe and further afield.
:46:49. > :46:52.Have you spoken already? You, Sir? I think Tristram Hunt is naive and
:46:53. > :47:01.people are naive about the power of the UN, the EU. Putin signed a
:47:02. > :47:06.treaty with China to supply gas. I don't think he's too worried about
:47:07. > :47:09.what the West think act chillily and I would compare him nor Stalin than
:47:10. > :47:18.Hitler. Kirstie Allsopp? As Russia's economy
:47:19. > :47:21.is comparable to that of Italy, perhaps the comparison should be
:47:22. > :47:28.with Mussolini. We all think of Russia as a scary thing and I think
:47:29. > :47:32.Sir, you may be wrong, because I think what Tristram said about the
:47:33. > :47:36.economic sanctions is something that's hopeful. The Graz prom deal
:47:37. > :47:40.happened with China but they haven't released the figures of that deal,
:47:41. > :47:44.we don't know whether it's more beneficial to China or Russia. As
:47:45. > :47:47.far as the Prince Charles question shows, he isn't traditionally
:47:48. > :47:50.allowed to express his opinion. The young man in the checked shirt said
:47:51. > :47:55.everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I don't think in Prince
:47:56. > :47:59.Charles's case he is. I feel very sorry for him in that respect, it
:48:00. > :48:05.must be immensely frustrating, but 99% of the time he gets it wrong. He
:48:06. > :48:10.may have slipped up this time, but I think one other thing. It was very
:48:11. > :48:14.mischievous reporting which didn't benefit any of us. Did you say 99%
:48:15. > :48:21.of the time he gets it wrong? Yes, I'm a big fan. You meant right? Did
:48:22. > :48:26.I say wrong? Oh, my God, I meant right!
:48:27. > :48:30.LAUGHTER APPLAUSE
:48:31. > :48:35.That 's the quickest retraction I've ever heard.
:48:36. > :48:40.We'll go on to a last question from Debra Dobrin, please? In south-west
:48:41. > :48:46.Hertfordshire, 222 children did not get one of their choice of secondary
:48:47. > :48:49.schools. Should you have to send your child to a school that you
:48:50. > :48:53.haven't chosen? School places, to the heart of Is, not just in South
:48:54. > :48:57.West Hertfordshire, but many parts of Britain. Should you have to send
:48:58. > :49:02.your child to a school you didn't choose? Jeremy Browne?
:49:03. > :49:05.Well, it's easy to say no you shouldn't have to send your child to
:49:06. > :49:09.a school you didn't choose. The question then is, how do you try and
:49:10. > :49:13.make sure that the supply of school places in popular schools matches up
:49:14. > :49:17.to the ambitions of parents to send their children to those schools. I
:49:18. > :49:21.think the problem that we have had is that we have a very statsic
:49:22. > :49:25.system where schools are maintained which are unpopular, local
:49:26. > :49:28.authorities try and allocate children to unpopular schools and
:49:29. > :49:34.what we need is a more dynamic system where schools that are very
:49:35. > :49:38.popular can expand or they can open up new campuses, if you like, new
:49:39. > :49:43.versions of that school that more providers can come in and provide
:49:44. > :49:46.schools as well. And that the good schools, if you like, the popular
:49:47. > :49:52.schools, can flex up to meet parental demand. So I think the era
:49:53. > :49:56.of command and control Government ministers telling everybody that the
:49:57. > :50:00.Government knows best about what's your children's education should
:50:01. > :50:04.look like, that era is coming gradually to an end and what we need
:50:05. > :50:08.to do is try and insert more choice for parents into the system. I think
:50:09. > :50:12.it's difficult to do that. There is limited finance. It's easy to say in
:50:13. > :50:17.theory than it is in practise but that is the direction we should be
:50:18. > :50:21.doing. What is your view? Everyone talking about free schools and the
:50:22. > :50:25.opportunities that are available to have the infrastructure that we
:50:26. > :50:29.require, but then we have a free school that was supposed to be built
:50:30. > :50:33.down the road to us and I would say that everything was put in its way
:50:34. > :50:37.to prevent that school from being built. There is a dire need for the
:50:38. > :50:42.infrastructure to meet the requirements of every locality and
:50:43. > :50:47.it's not about immigration before we hear that it's all about
:50:48. > :50:52.immigration, it's about us needing to build houses on brown field land,
:50:53. > :50:55.but there's no point building houses without providing a school and a
:50:56. > :51:00.hospital and all the other infrastructure that's needed. What
:51:01. > :51:05.about the free school? You know more than me, but there are lots of
:51:06. > :51:09.planning issues. I'm a member of a free school that was meant to open
:51:10. > :51:14.in September and unfortunately it didn't open, mainly due to the site
:51:15. > :51:18.issue and we are waiting to hear this month if the site that we've
:51:19. > :51:21.chosen is actually available. It's owned by the Department of Health
:51:22. > :51:25.and the issue that's holding it up at the moment is that they are
:51:26. > :51:29.saying that the land is worth X amount and they are not willing to
:51:30. > :51:32.reduce it. So it will be sorted but in principal you are in favour of a
:51:33. > :51:38.free school? Of course, yes. Tradition front Hunt, are you in
:51:39. > :51:41.favour of it? Niall favour of you getting together as parents and
:51:42. > :51:47.community activists and teachers to set up a new school where we need
:51:48. > :51:51.places and if you need places, good club to you, the Government's let
:51:52. > :51:56.you down, I know about this site and the Government's botched it up 100%
:51:57. > :52:02.and it's a scandal what's happened to your community. 24% didn't get
:52:03. > :52:07.their choices of secondary schools, compared to the average of 5% in the
:52:08. > :52:12.UK. Is free schools the answer to this? From Labour's point of view,
:52:13. > :52:15.are you in favour of it It can be part of the answer because a free
:52:16. > :52:20.school is not the only school in the world, you know. They are maintained
:52:21. > :52:24.schools, they are a voluntary controlled schools, and free schools
:52:25. > :52:27.can be part of an answer in the right place. And when you set up
:52:28. > :52:30.your school, I want you to have qualified teachers in it,
:52:31. > :52:33.transparency, accountability, make sure that your admissions code is
:52:34. > :52:39.reflective of the local environment. Look, the...
:52:40. > :52:42.How would you describe it? The first job of a Government when it comes to
:52:43. > :52:45.education policy is to have enough places and then to have the teachers
:52:46. > :52:49.to teach in those schools and on both of those issues, we've got a
:52:50. > :52:56.Government failing on the job and we saw last week that they had raided
:52:57. > :52:59.?400 million from the basic needs budget in order to fund some of the
:53:00. > :53:03.free schools where we don't need the places. So where you need the
:53:04. > :53:07.places, the crisis you're facing is as a result of the misallocation of
:53:08. > :53:10.funds by this Government and you should hold them to account on it
:53:11. > :53:16.APPLAUSE Chris Grayling? Well. You are
:53:17. > :53:21.dancing on the Head of A pin over the schools issue, one week you
:53:22. > :53:30.oppose them, the next week you support them. He's misrepresenting.
:53:31. > :53:34.You have said your bit. It's a basic point. A dangerous ideological
:53:35. > :53:44.experiment is what you said about them. A dangerous ideological
:53:45. > :53:49.experiment and yummy mummies, yes. Now allow Chris Grayling to answer.
:53:50. > :53:53.So we are in aniedle of the immigration issue, a babyboom and we
:53:54. > :53:56.are seeing in my constituency big pressures on primary places that
:53:57. > :53:59.will feed through to secondary places shortly. You have got the
:54:00. > :54:04.secondary issues here. We are spending ?59 billion on creating new
:54:05. > :54:08.school places -- ?5 be. We are spending money yes on new free
:54:09. > :54:12.schools -- ?5 billion. We are putting money into expanding schools
:54:13. > :54:17.and maintaining schools, putting money to be free schools sothey can
:54:18. > :54:22.open is the right mix. It's a challenge at a time when the number
:54:23. > :54:26.of applicants toer places has surged in the way it has in the last few
:54:27. > :54:29.years. We want your free school to open, Michael Gove will want your
:54:30. > :54:34.free school to open. Where there are problems are places around the
:54:35. > :54:38.country, we'll do our best to fill them up. It's always a challenge.
:54:39. > :54:43.The annual round of applications, I know as a constituency MP over 13
:54:44. > :54:46.years is the most difficult thing the community deals with. There's
:54:47. > :54:51.never a simple answer. All the Government and local authorities can
:54:52. > :54:54.do is to do their best with the help of parents groups like yourselves
:54:55. > :54:59.and free school movements, we can meet the short-term needs but create
:55:00. > :55:04.something that's vibe ant and help raise standards.
:55:05. > :55:12.-- vibrant. Should you have to send your child toll a school that you
:55:13. > :55:15.don't choose? Well, I used to live in Southend and applied for foyer
:55:16. > :55:20.different school place force my son in Superior Court end on sea and got
:55:21. > :55:24.the third school place on my list which was about three-and-a-half
:55:25. > :55:28.miles away and would have pose add massive problem for me as a then
:55:29. > :55:34.single parent walking my son to school or getting the bus every
:55:35. > :55:41.morning. I don't live in south end, my son has a place in a local school
:55:42. > :55:46.thank God after a lot of harassing phone calls. Should your child have
:55:47. > :55:52.to go to a school you don't choose, if it was that or not send your
:55:53. > :55:56.child too school at all, I would ask about your responsibility as a
:55:57. > :56:00.parent, would you send your child to a different school? I went tot the
:56:01. > :56:05.not ideal school that my parents didn't really want to send me to and
:56:06. > :56:14.I think I turned out all righted, I'm on Question Time, you know!
:56:15. > :56:21.APPLAUSE I only got four GCSEs.
:56:22. > :56:23.Kirstie Allsopp. Jack and I are the only people on this panel that
:56:24. > :56:26.didn't go to university. I went to ten different schools and I'm on
:56:27. > :56:33.Question Time. Neil Hamilton. Were you expelled
:56:34. > :56:36.nine times 1234 Never expelled. I'm interesting to hear Tristram say
:56:37. > :56:41.he's in favour of free schools where needed but who is he to decide what
:56:42. > :56:46.the needs are. Surely it's the parents and the children. It's
:56:47. > :56:49.public money. ALL SPEAK AT ONCE
:56:50. > :56:55.That's been the fault of the British education system in my lifetime
:56:56. > :56:58.actually, the that parents for too long have been excluded virtually
:56:59. > :57:02.from the process and what Michael Gove is doing at the Department for
:57:03. > :57:04.Education is a breath of fresh air and it's part of the answer to the
:57:05. > :57:10.problem. The woman there, very, very quick
:57:11. > :57:13.point? I was part of the education panel at Hertfordshire County
:57:14. > :57:17.Council for four years and I have great sympathy for the South West
:57:18. > :57:24.Hertfordshire people. Actually, the truth is, in a lot of cases, people
:57:25. > :57:27.have to get their children into a school that they didn't chewth
:57:28. > :57:32.choose, but actually they are very good. There was one in Hemel
:57:33. > :57:36.Hempstead, it's a fantastic school but people don't want it because
:57:37. > :57:40.historically it wasn't good so people need to give the schools a
:57:41. > :57:47.bit of slack really. OK. We've got to stop.
:57:48. > :57:50.Our hour is up. If you stay with BBC One and come with me in a moment to
:57:51. > :57:53.election nights studio, we'll have the beginning of the results from
:57:54. > :57:58.the local elections. As for Question Time, next week we are going to be
:57:59. > :58:04.coming from inside the new Terminal 2 at Heathrow Airport. Piers Morgan
:58:05. > :58:09.and Joey Barton, the footballer, are going to be on our panel.
:58:10. > :58:14.I don't know who else we'll get to agree to come, but there it is.
:58:15. > :58:21.The week after the that, we are going to be the n Llandudno in
:58:22. > :58:26.Wales, so Heathrow or Llandudno, your choice. Apply via the website.
:58:27. > :58:29.My thanks to the panel and to all of you who came to take part in the
:58:30. > :58:57.programme in Radlett. See you begin, I hope, in five minutes' time. Bye.
:58:58. > :59:02.This summer, BBC TWO takes a look at the Brazilian superstars
:59:03. > :59:11.See what life is really like in the favelas.