:00:00. > :00:18.Tonight, we are in Wolverhampton, and welcome to Question Time. And
:00:19. > :00:22.good evening, everyone, whether at home or in our audience, waiting to
:00:23. > :00:26.put questions to the panel who do not know what they will be until
:00:27. > :00:31.they hear them. Conservative Defence Minister Anna Soubry, Labour's
:00:32. > :00:35.former Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, deputy leader of UKIP,
:00:36. > :00:38.Paul Nuttall, former Islamist extremist who recanted and is now a
:00:39. > :00:44.Liberal Democrat Parliamentary candidate, Maajid Nawaz, and the
:00:45. > :00:47.ex-Executive Editor of the News of the World, and friend and
:00:48. > :00:58.ex-colleague of Andy Coulson, Neil Wallis.
:00:59. > :01:09.We had many interest -- interesting questions. Let's start. Does hiring
:01:10. > :01:19.Andy Coulson show that David Cameron has bad judgement? John Prescott.
:01:20. > :01:23.Since I wrote to him on the first day he was about to appoint Andy
:01:24. > :01:26.Coulson, when he was leader Opposition, warning him he would be
:01:27. > :01:30.in real danger if he appointed this man, because I had been involved
:01:31. > :01:35.years before with this phone hacking and I knew he was actively involved
:01:36. > :01:40.in it. He had not been convicted, and now we know he has. And he still
:01:41. > :01:45.took command. I think there were many others, even his deputy leader,
:01:46. > :01:48.who told him not to do it. So that was a matter of bad judgement, and
:01:49. > :01:58.he made a mistake and he is now paying for it. Neil Wallis, I said
:01:59. > :02:04.you were a friend of Andy Coulson, and a colleague of his. Did David
:02:05. > :02:10.Cameron show bad judgement by hiring him? On what he knew at the time,
:02:11. > :02:13.no. There was an interesting piece in The Times today which pointed out
:02:14. > :02:20.that Andy Coulson was actually very good at his job. Can you make an
:02:21. > :02:27.argument that if they had looked at the wider picture and with
:02:28. > :02:33.hindsight, maybe. What I thought was that Cameron, and I agree with Judge
:02:34. > :02:39.Saunders, I thought he and the various political leaders yesterday
:02:40. > :02:42.made an appalling error of judgement when they issued statements
:02:43. > :02:48.condemning him while there was a trial still going on, before the
:02:49. > :02:54.other verdicts had been heard. That is a different matter. Because, as
:02:55. > :02:57.John Prescott said, and I would like you to address it, there were a
:02:58. > :03:02.number of people who went to the Prime Minister and said, you must
:03:03. > :03:07.not have him in Number Ten. Yes. But to finish off my point, you are
:03:08. > :03:10.entitled to a fair trial, whether you are employed by a Prime Minister
:03:11. > :03:16.or a plumber. That is the point of complaint. But yes, there were
:03:17. > :03:19.people who advised against it. Then again, there are people who will
:03:20. > :03:26.always advise you. If you remember, the Labour Party hired Damian
:03:27. > :03:32.McBride, for instance. There is no suggestion that he, who I know and
:03:33. > :03:36.is an interesting person, had done anything criminal at all. But these
:03:37. > :03:42.can be close calls, and with hindsight I can understand why John
:03:43. > :03:47.Prescott wants to fill his boots. Two of the journalists went to jail
:03:48. > :03:51.in 2006 working for the same paper. It was not just a rumour. I knew and
:03:52. > :03:57.they refused to believe it. There was evidence. You did not know Andy
:03:58. > :04:02.Coulson was responsible. That is the point. When we had the enquiry and
:04:03. > :04:07.there was a lot of evidence taken by the enquiry on oath, and that
:04:08. > :04:11.concluded that the Prime Minister did not do anything wrong when he
:04:12. > :04:13.hired Andy Coulson, based on the evidence put before him. Forgive me,
:04:14. > :04:17.John, I don't know whether you gave evidence put before him. Forgive me,
:04:18. > :04:29.evidence to the committee, for example, the select committee. In
:04:30. > :04:33.2010, the DC MS committee, came to the conclusion that Andy Coulson was
:04:34. > :04:38.not responsible and was not involved in phone hacking. There was a police
:04:39. > :04:44.investigation. They -- he told them that they believed him. Let me just
:04:45. > :04:49.say that the enquiry also found that on four occasions, the primers to,
:04:50. > :04:55.before he hired him, challenged him and said, were you involved in it?
:04:56. > :04:58.Four times he said no, as he did to others. Now the Prime Minister has
:04:59. > :05:00.apologised for that. others. Now the Prime Minister has
:05:01. > :05:03.right thing in apologising but did not do
:05:04. > :05:11.right thing in apologising but did on, based on the evidence before
:05:12. > :05:18.him. Cameron was warned. Why did he appoint him if he was warned? Was it
:05:19. > :05:21.just to cosy up to Murdoch? The Murdoch issue is
:05:22. > :05:25.just to cosy up to Murdoch? The this. It is right that there were
:05:26. > :05:26.allegations but there were a number of investigations that absolutely
:05:27. > :05:30.found that Andy Coulson was of investigations that absolutely
:05:31. > :05:36.involved in phone hacking. The Prime Minister did the right thing. Lord
:05:37. > :05:43.Leveson said, I can't give judgements on this until the court
:05:44. > :05:49.case is underway. On whether the Prime Minister was right, he was
:05:50. > :05:56.clear the Prime Minister Erdogan nothing wrong. Clearly, it was an
:05:57. > :06:01.error of judgement. Andy Coulson resigned in 2006 under a cloud and
:06:02. > :06:06.he was hired in 2007. He had been warned by journalists, and as Lord
:06:07. > :06:09.Prescott has told us, by politicians. Allegedly he was warned
:06:10. > :06:14.by Buckingham Palace not to take him on. He listened to nobody and he
:06:15. > :06:18.went ahead and did it. He either took him on because he thought he
:06:19. > :06:23.was a man of the people... The Tories were perceived as toffs and
:06:24. > :06:28.he have the common touch. Or else he took him on because he was trying to
:06:29. > :06:31.cosy up to News International in the run-up to the 2010 general election.
:06:32. > :06:38.APPLAUSE .
:06:39. > :06:46.He is making a serious allegation, so let him make it. That is a very
:06:47. > :06:48.serious allegation. There is an insidious relationship between the
:06:49. > :06:56.press and politicians in this country, and it needs to go away
:06:57. > :07:03.now. Why didn't he do security clearance? When I came on a cabinet,
:07:04. > :07:08.everybody goes there. They are given security clearance before you get
:07:09. > :07:15.into that job. He did not give them security coverage at the highest
:07:16. > :07:21.level. It is no good saying it is not true while John is speaking. Let
:07:22. > :07:27.him make his point. As long as I have my chance. It is my job to make
:07:28. > :07:31.sure you do. Yes, he was warned. Nick Clegg warned him before the
:07:32. > :07:36.appointment in 2010. Yes, he was warned. But even Prime Minister
:07:37. > :07:42.David Cameron has said something which I genuinely believe. John, I
:07:43. > :07:48.know you have been a victim of this. And you have suffered as a result of
:07:49. > :07:54.it. But it is actually really about people like the McCanns, who lost
:07:55. > :08:00.their daughter. The Prime Minister said that the test here is the
:08:01. > :08:06.victim test. If the Dowler family are not happy with what is going
:08:07. > :08:09.on... Gemma lost her 13-year-old sister in this. If they are not
:08:10. > :08:13.happy with what is going on, something is going wrong. Those are
:08:14. > :08:17.the real victims. The Prime Minister said that as the victim test, we
:08:18. > :08:21.have to look at how they respond to this. They are not happy with the
:08:22. > :08:26.situation, and they are not happy with the outcome. It is not about
:08:27. > :08:29.me, you and your friends. Although John has suffered, it is really
:08:30. > :08:42.about those who have lost family members. And they are still pushing
:08:43. > :08:46.for justice. A couple of weeks ago, the party leaders had photos taken
:08:47. > :08:56.holding copies of the Sun. Doesn't that prove they would all have done
:08:57. > :08:59.the same as Cameron did? You say that by holding copies of the sun
:09:00. > :09:05.for publicity, your party leader doing exactly the same thing as
:09:06. > :09:10.Cameron, cosying up to Murdoch. It is wrong and I wouldn't have done
:09:11. > :09:15.it. Tony Blair did the same, didn't he? I think that was wrong. The
:09:16. > :09:21.incestuous relationship between press and politicians is a serious
:09:22. > :09:25.matter. And with Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, there was this feeling
:09:26. > :09:29.that you had to cosy up to the Murdoch press and they will win the
:09:30. > :09:34.election for you. I used to argue strongly against that, because
:09:35. > :09:39.Rebekah Brooks particularly played them both off. I thought that was
:09:40. > :09:44.wrong. They played it not only to Labour by other parties as well.
:09:45. > :09:51.That needs to change. That is why Lord Leveson's rules need to come
:09:52. > :09:54.in, so we don't repeat it again. I have a vague memory that Nigel
:09:55. > :10:03.Farage had dinner with Rupert Murdoch recently, didn't he? Didn't
:10:04. > :10:07.he tell you? I believe he did. The good thing with all this, I suppose,
:10:08. > :10:14.is that newspaper sales are going down radically in this country. In
:10:15. > :10:16.the next century, by 2014 there will be no newspapers because people are
:10:17. > :10:24.getting information from the internet. -- 2014. I think the days
:10:25. > :10:31.of the big press barons are behind us and that is a good thing. Lets
:10:32. > :10:38.get the chronology of this slightly right, OK. The original arrests in
:10:39. > :10:44.phone hacking were in 2006. There was a Labour government in power. He
:10:45. > :10:52.was the Deputy Prime Minister. There were jail sentences in 2007. He was
:10:53. > :10:58.the Deputy Prime Minister. Labour were in power for the next three
:10:59. > :11:04.years, during which time there were various Home Secretaries, all of
:11:05. > :11:09.whom had access to this file, all of whom talked to the Metropolitan
:11:10. > :11:16.Police about this. And let's not forget, remember a bloke Tony Blair?
:11:17. > :11:22.He became, in 2010, the Godfather to Rupert Murdoch's children. What
:11:23. > :11:26.happened here was Labour ignored it. The Labour government he was the
:11:27. > :11:32.Deputy Prime Minister of, because it suited them. Rubbish. Let me give
:11:33. > :11:39.you the evidence. Why didn't the various Labour Home Secretaries
:11:40. > :11:44.demand further enquiries? Because they chose not to. Do you know why?
:11:45. > :11:49.For the simple reason that they wanted to cosy up to Rupert Murdoch.
:11:50. > :11:54.You can justifiably ask, why did politicians do this? Why is it that
:11:55. > :11:58.in my time as a senior executive there, and incidentally I was an
:11:59. > :12:03.editor of a Mirror Group paper that was supporting Labour, why do
:12:04. > :12:19.politicians always, always are prepared to crawl over broken glass
:12:20. > :12:22.to politicians. The relationship with Murdoch, I've been against for
:12:23. > :12:26.years, never went to his parties, you know, I thought it was wrong.
:12:27. > :12:30.When those people were prosecuted, they were working with you and
:12:31. > :12:33.Coulson, you became the Deputy Leader later in the middle of all
:12:34. > :12:36.this right, but one of the real problems was, I was trying to
:12:37. > :12:40.convince people my phone had been hacked. The police said it's wrong,
:12:41. > :12:44.the Crown Prosecution Service said it was wrong, your papers said it
:12:45. > :12:49.was wrong, I was just shouting as a left-winger. It's now been proved it
:12:50. > :12:54.was right. So what we said, and I managed to get it, I said we've got
:12:55. > :12:57.to get a Leveson Inquiry, it mustn't happen again. Let's let the court
:12:58. > :13:01.look after the criminal acts and your papers were really involved in
:13:02. > :13:06.massive actual hacking of people to thousands of people. But you all
:13:07. > :13:12.denied it I was one of them. You all attacked me. I got hacked too. I'm
:13:13. > :13:19.just telling you. Yes. Is In 200, Mr Prescott, you
:13:20. > :13:24.said you already knew. Pardon? In 2006, you said you already knew, so
:13:25. > :13:29.why did you do nothing about it? I had to prove it. It's a fair point.
:13:30. > :13:32.If I'd have had the evidence, what's interesting, I watched the Panorama
:13:33. > :13:36.programme the other night, they said they told a member of the Cabinet.
:13:37. > :13:40.Nobody can find out who that was. They never told me. I'd have been
:13:41. > :13:44.writing to the courts when I found out. But I was denied by the police,
:13:45. > :13:49.denied by the prosecutors. It was only later when they came and told
:13:50. > :13:55.me that my phone had been hacked 44 times that. Was when they were
:13:56. > :14:00.exposed. It's remarkable that you were the Deputy Prime Minister...
:14:01. > :14:03.APPLAUSE And one of the most powerful
:14:04. > :14:08.politicians in Government and you couldn't go to your Prime Minister?
:14:09. > :14:11.politicians in Government and you But I had to... Of course I did tell
:14:12. > :14:16.my Prime Minister but they would say what is the proof, right, that's the
:14:17. > :14:19.first point. They told me there was no proof. It
:14:20. > :14:24.was only when the courts yesterday said you and your lot were involved
:14:25. > :14:28.in the papers, Murdoch, tapping thousands of people. You all said
:14:29. > :14:32.it's a rogue reporter, then it came out, it's thousands of you at it,
:14:33. > :14:37.you lied all the time. You are asking me why I couldn't get it. I
:14:38. > :14:43.had them against me. Maajid? The truth lies somewhere in
:14:44. > :14:48.the middle probably. You can't be Deputy Prime Minister of the country
:14:49. > :14:51.and not know it. There is an incestious relationship going on
:14:52. > :14:57.here about Murdoch and it should be about what the structure should be,
:14:58. > :15:01.is it the Royal Charter? We are too busy fighting over whether who knew
:15:02. > :15:06.Murdoch who was his best friend and godfather, I mean why is it all
:15:07. > :15:12.about Murdoch? There aren't plenty of journalists not involved in that.
:15:13. > :15:18.There were local journalists doing good jobs. Let's not just make it
:15:19. > :15:22.about Murdoch. Let's discuss the solutions about how to regulate
:15:23. > :15:26.this. Fewer and fewer local journalists. The man in the pink
:15:27. > :15:29.shirt? Going back to Leveson, I think David Cameron's using Leveson
:15:30. > :15:35.in the same way as Tony Blair used the Hutton Report as a shield. No,
:15:36. > :15:40.because the Leveson Inquiry was judge-led. People gave their
:15:41. > :15:44.evidence on oath. He took evidence across the board, it took eight
:15:45. > :15:47.months and he made his findings. With the benefit of the hindsight
:15:48. > :15:53.which we now have, given the evidence at the time in front of the
:15:54. > :15:58.Prime Minister, Leveson and others found that actually, he made a
:15:59. > :16:03.decision that give than evidence was not a wrong decision. Leveson dealt
:16:04. > :16:06.with all the points that arise out of the employment of Coulson. He had
:16:07. > :16:10.all the evidence on it and listened to all of it under oath or that he
:16:11. > :16:13.listened to some of it and exonerated the Prime Minister on
:16:14. > :16:19.some of it but some he didn't address? He certainly looked at the
:16:20. > :16:23.events leading up to the employment of Andy Coulson in 2007. There were
:16:24. > :16:27.subsequent inquiries by the Metropolitan Police which John can
:16:28. > :16:31.be cross about quite rightly but he was cleared in all the police
:16:32. > :16:34.inquiries. There were others from the Select Committee and they said
:16:35. > :16:39.they believed him when he said he was not involved in phone hacking.
:16:40. > :16:44.The woman on the gangway, then you in a second. I think David Cameron
:16:45. > :16:50.said himself "I gave a friend a job," so no matter what people were
:16:51. > :16:55.to tell him, you, John, no matter what bad things people were telling
:16:56. > :16:59.him about Andy Coulson, he said he was his friend. I don't think he was
:17:00. > :17:03.a friend. He used those words. That's what he said in his speech.
:17:04. > :17:06.He said he gave him a second chance because he was sacked or resigned
:17:07. > :17:10.from the News of the World, but honestly, I don't believe that they
:17:11. > :17:18.were friends. The woman in spectacles in the fourth row. Seems
:17:19. > :17:20.to me that everyone's going back to the leave son inquiry but David
:17:21. > :17:26.Cameron rushed that through because he knew for a fact once the court
:17:27. > :17:29.case came to light and Andy Coulson was isn't down he'd have that to
:17:30. > :17:33.protect himself. The inquiry shouldn't have been held until the
:17:34. > :17:40.court had been heard, the court case had been herd. If the Leveson
:17:41. > :17:43.Inquiry was held now, it would be a completely different reaction veled
:17:44. > :17:48.have against David Cameron. Everyone agreed that it was the right thing
:17:49. > :17:54.to do, the Leveson Inquiry. The man at the back? You, Sir? The
:17:55. > :17:57.organisations and newspapers, including TV journalists, they are
:17:58. > :18:04.all guilty of the same offence. What is the offence? Phone hacking.
:18:05. > :18:07.This is my point that I didn't think it's just about Murdoch or the
:18:08. > :18:11.Corporation, this was a widespread problem, we picked on one company
:18:12. > :18:14.and one symbolic representation of the media generally. That's why it's
:18:15. > :18:19.high time we start focussing on the solutions to make sure that what
:18:20. > :18:24.Gemma Dowing is saying, the campaign to make sure that just it is is
:18:25. > :18:29.delivered -- justice is delivered. The Royal Charter that was proposed
:18:30. > :18:34.that was a voluntary code for journalists to subscribe to, they
:18:35. > :18:40.haven't subscribed to. So there are two models competing, the
:18:41. > :18:42.journalists one and the other one. The Parliament's ratified and they
:18:43. > :18:46.have to start working together to find a solution for the sake of the
:18:47. > :18:52.McCanns and the Dowler family to find justice for people who've lost
:18:53. > :19:02.their families and suffered and have these horrors.
:19:03. > :19:06.Look, did you, when you were the Deputy Editor, to Coulson, did you
:19:07. > :19:10.know that this was going on? Did you have any indication or do you sit
:19:11. > :19:13.there as a Deputy sometimes substituting and not knowing all the
:19:14. > :19:17.stories in the paper were coming from hacking? Well, I guess that I
:19:18. > :19:20.was a bit like the Deputy Prime Minister who didn't know anything.
:19:21. > :19:23.Are you saying you didn't know? Are you saying you didn't know?
:19:24. > :19:27.APPLAUSE I have always said that I thought
:19:28. > :19:35.that phone hacking was disgusting and was wrong. But did you know? No,
:19:36. > :19:41.I didn't. So they were just plooeddy incompetent, he was saying? I don't
:19:42. > :19:47.know who you are to call anybody bloody incompetent. Certainly were
:19:48. > :19:53.and you must have known. When you get a story, you look at it and say,
:19:54. > :20:03.what is the source? It didn't work like that. But not when I was a
:20:04. > :20:08.journalist. It wasn't like that. We have had an eight month trial,
:20:09. > :20:13.that's been going on now for three years. There was Leveson and there
:20:14. > :20:19.was a continued wrangle about it. The latest estimate is that there's
:20:20. > :20:24.been in the region of ?40 million. 400 detectives have been tied up on
:20:25. > :20:29.this for years. I have to wonder at a time when there's only 30 Defence
:20:30. > :20:34.Secretaryives investigating operation Yewtree into child sexual
:20:35. > :20:38.abuse, they have only spent ?3 million on child sexual abuse,
:20:39. > :20:44.whether we have proportion Ality or whether this is a time to think, you
:20:45. > :20:47.know what, if you took 20% of that ?40 million and put it into child
:20:48. > :20:55.sexual abuse, whether that might have been a better use of the money.
:20:56. > :20:56.Absolutely right. More investigated in child sexual
:20:57. > :21:05.abuse. ALL SPEAK AT ONCE
:21:06. > :21:11.You lot will now think twice warm front you -- before you ever think
:21:12. > :21:17.about that. Child sex was involved in the story. We are talking about
:21:18. > :21:22.Madeleine McCann's family, Milly Dowler's family as well. Child sex
:21:23. > :21:25.was involved in the story. Nobody Sa above the law. Nobody is above the
:21:26. > :21:30.law. Absolutely. Remember, some people
:21:31. > :21:34.pleaded guilty in all of this. We forget that. It's not just the
:21:35. > :21:43.conviction of Coulson. There are four other people who pleaded guilty
:21:44. > :21:47.because precisely this investigation was extant from the police. During
:21:48. > :21:52.the last three years, listening to the panel, Murs Murdoch's doubled
:21:53. > :21:54.his wealth. It's cost the country ?120 million. Who is going to send
:21:55. > :22:06.him the bill? He will get it. He will get it. It's
:22:07. > :22:10.said that they are now considering a corporate liability right and that's
:22:11. > :22:15.why he's being interviewed by the police. Can't go into details but I
:22:16. > :22:19.can tell you the consequences if anyone's found guilty, they carry
:22:20. > :22:23.the full costs, so hang on, he might have to pay for it!
:22:24. > :22:27.Let's move on. We have had 20 minutes or so on this. At home,
:22:28. > :22:28.you've got comments you want to make, text
:22:29. > :22:42.you've got comments you want to make, us Use Twitter: And if you
:22:43. > :22:47.want to see what other people are saying, press the red button. Keep
:22:48. > :22:54.the Tweets coming, we like to trend every Thursday night.
:22:55. > :22:59.And we usually do. Question from Graham Sedgely, please? How fearful
:23:00. > :23:08.should we be of British combatants returning from Syria?
:23:09. > :23:12.Anna Soubry, you start on this one? Of course we should be fearful.
:23:13. > :23:16.These are young males utterly committed to a cause which I think
:23:17. > :23:21.most of us overwhelmingly would say was the wrong cause. They would have
:23:22. > :23:26.gone off, engaged in fighting and will no doubt come back in favour of
:23:27. > :23:30.their cause, I would hope they wouldn't so yes we are fearful and
:23:31. > :23:35.should be fearful. This should be said. The overwhelming majority of
:23:36. > :23:42.young Muslim men, just like all Muslims, are ordinary, good, decent,
:23:43. > :23:46.law-abiding people. This is a small minority. It's still significant
:23:47. > :23:52.because they are so dangerous, but we think that there are somewhere
:23:53. > :23:57.between 400 to 500 out in Syria or Iraq who're Jihadists. There are
:23:58. > :24:04.Sarah Krauss measures which the Government is already taking to make
:24:05. > :24:09.sure we reduce the numbers -- various measures. The majority are
:24:10. > :24:17.law abiding people. various measures. The majority are
:24:18. > :24:22.can't be brainwashed. Some have been. When we all work together on
:24:23. > :24:25.this in various agencies and as a society, we hope we'll minimise
:24:26. > :24:34.those when they return. Do you society, we hope we'll minimise
:24:35. > :24:37.distinction between going abroad society, we hope we'll minimise
:24:38. > :24:41.here and creating mayhem in Britain? society, we hope we'll minimise
:24:42. > :24:44.Are they not too slightly different things? Not really because if they
:24:45. > :24:47.are fighting abroad they are things? Not really because if they
:24:48. > :24:50.those countries, even though we things? Not really because if they
:24:51. > :24:53.don't like the Syrian regime, they are engaged effectively in terrorism
:24:54. > :24:57.in a war so that in itself is wrong. If they then come back here and
:24:58. > :25:01.engage or try to engage in similar sorts of activity that are unlawful,
:25:02. > :25:08.the full force of the law should come down on them.
:25:09. > :25:12.The in pink? Many young men went to fight in Spanish Civil War against
:25:13. > :25:15.the fascists and we didn't have any Government worrying about what they
:25:16. > :25:18.were going to do when they come back even though a lot would have been
:25:19. > :25:22.communists. Why is this so different? I think this
:25:23. > :25:25.communists. Why is this so different. These are often young
:25:26. > :25:28.men. There are others on the panel that know more about this than I do.
:25:29. > :25:33.men. There are others on the panel These are young men who have a cause
:25:34. > :25:35.often which means that they would go so far, something which I don't
:25:36. > :25:38.think we have ever seen before so far, something which I don't
:25:39. > :25:41.our world where they are so far, something which I don't
:25:42. > :25:45.their cause and to kill others, so they are very different in the
:25:46. > :25:50.circumstances of the Spanish Civil War. I said before you used
:25:51. > :25:54.circumstances of the Spanish Civil member of a group and then you
:25:55. > :25:57.abandoned that and you are a democrat now, a rather different
:25:58. > :26:02.kettle of fish. Do you think we should be fearful of people coming
:26:03. > :26:03.kettle of fish. Do you think we back? We should. Fearful of
:26:04. > :26:07.kettle of fish. Do you think we in this country. We have to
:26:08. > :26:11.emphasise that if you see somebody that looks like me walking around
:26:12. > :26:15.the street, doesn't mean that they are going to attack.
:26:16. > :26:17.APPLAUSE However, having said that,
:26:18. > :26:18.APPLAUSE However, young men that have gone to fight
:26:19. > :26:21.from across the world. young men that have gone to fight
:26:22. > :26:27.called foreign fighters. They have gone to fight in Syria, more than
:26:28. > :26:33.ever went to Afghanistan. We are dealing with a hardened minority.
:26:34. > :26:35.There will be a Syria blow back. We have to prefair for that.
:26:36. > :26:42.There will be a Syria blow back. We have to prefair for I worry because
:26:43. > :26:44.I saw the video of the young man from Cardiff speaking -- prepare for
:26:45. > :26:47.that. I saw myself in from Cardiff speaking -- prepare for
:26:48. > :26:53.young man in 2010 wanted to be Prime Minister, he said. He spoke about
:26:54. > :26:59.the problems that the ewe were having in Cardiff. He spoke about
:27:00. > :27:04.how we could get involved. Somewhere between 2010 and 014, we lost that
:27:05. > :27:08.young man. If he succeeded, he would have been the first Muslim Prime
:27:09. > :27:13.Minister in this country but we lost his passion and init's terrorists
:27:14. > :27:19.got to him - 20146789 the question is, what can we do to make sure we
:27:20. > :27:27.don't lose more young men like that. That. You were lost, so explain why
:27:28. > :27:32.you were misguided in your own mind? I was born and raised in Essex. I
:27:33. > :27:39.faced severe violent racist attacks with hammers, machetes,
:27:40. > :27:44.screwdrivers, I watched my white friends stabbed. It's what we call
:27:45. > :27:48.the bad old days. Things have improved incredibly since then,
:27:49. > :27:56.around the Stephen Lawrence murder. Then there was the ideological
:27:57. > :28:00.narrative. A world view was sold to me that somehow there was a global
:28:01. > :28:05.war which was a false narrative. On the solutions, I want to very
:28:06. > :28:10.quickly say that look, it's been about 13 years since 9/11 and it's
:28:11. > :28:14.still until this day what we don't have is a coordinated strategy
:28:15. > :28:18.across all Government departments led by the Communities and Local
:28:19. > :28:23.Government department to intervene in communities on a several society
:28:24. > :28:26.level to identify young men like this guy who wanted to be Prime
:28:27. > :28:29.Minister, to channel their energy in a positive way so they end up on a
:28:30. > :28:37.Question Time panel instead of in Syria. We have to provide examples
:28:38. > :28:50.of role models so positive energy is channelled instead of negativity.
:28:51. > :28:55.With the fact that it has been revealed the government made the
:28:56. > :29:01.mistake of deporting Abu Qatada on the basis of terrorist actions of
:29:02. > :29:05.which he has been acquitted... He has been acquitted on one set of
:29:06. > :29:10.charges. The verdict on the other two are in September. By Jove, we
:29:11. > :29:20.did the right thing in deporting that man. Absolutely. It is about
:29:21. > :29:26.time we let the Arab steel with their situation. At the end of the
:29:27. > :29:34.day, we have the G8, and they also have the Arab league and so on. But
:29:35. > :29:39.they seem to take a step back. We need to not make them do anything
:29:40. > :29:42.but, you know, maybe push harder so they can deal with their own
:29:43. > :29:51.situation. At the end of the day, it is a far place from us. Also, I like
:29:52. > :29:56.what you do a lot of the time, but you are on the fence a lot of the
:29:57. > :30:04.time, to be honest. With your Twitter, for example, I know you do
:30:05. > :30:10.not want me to bring it up, where you send some photos of the profit
:30:11. > :30:15.and so on, all you have to do is do something and stir things up in the
:30:16. > :30:19.community. Muslim people living in this country, brought up and
:30:20. > :30:27.everything, it just takes a little bit of something small to ignite
:30:28. > :30:30.things. You, as a politician, coming from an extremist group, need to be
:30:31. > :30:37.much more careful about what you say and do. This was about the cartoon
:30:38. > :30:41.of the Prophet Mohammed. I don't think you needed to do it. I have
:30:42. > :30:44.read your explanation in the Independent and I think it is a
:30:45. > :30:50.lousy excuse, to be honest. It is something you should not have done.
:30:51. > :30:54.I will let him answer in a moment, but what is your view about people
:30:55. > :30:59.who go to fight in Syria, British men in particular? I am quite
:31:00. > :31:03.astounded by it, to be honest. At the end of the day, we are British
:31:04. > :31:14.Muslims. This is our country, and I love my country.
:31:15. > :31:20.It is a very difficult question, but I have come to the conclusion,
:31:21. > :31:26.having been involved in Iraq, which turned out to be wrong, that it was
:31:27. > :31:31.about regime change, not about using the UN. I am glad to see we stopped
:31:32. > :31:36.from going into Syria, but it does appear we are back to the old
:31:37. > :31:40.crusades. Put on a white sheet with a Red Cross and we fight the Arabs
:31:41. > :31:45.and Christianity fights Muslims, and we are beginning to see that. All
:31:46. > :31:49.these young men watching on the television see people they identify
:31:50. > :31:53.with in a very family way, and they feel they are being slaughtered in
:31:54. > :31:58.many places, driven out of their country, for what reason? For a
:31:59. > :32:03.reason that we seem to think that our open, democratic society is what
:32:04. > :32:08.we should impose on them. They probably think it is far different.
:32:09. > :32:12.In a way, we should reconsider what we are contributing to that. As to
:32:13. > :32:16.the men coming back, the lads coming back, which has been talked about,
:32:17. > :32:22.it is not the same as the Spanish civil war. But basically we have now
:32:23. > :32:25.passed terrorist legislation. If you commit an offence here, and they
:32:26. > :32:30.will be checked on when they come back, that is what you get
:32:31. > :32:32.prosecuted for. If they commit atrocities in other countries, there
:32:33. > :32:38.is the international court to take them. But everybody has to start
:32:39. > :32:41.thinking differently about this. We are contributing to what these young
:32:42. > :32:45.kids are seeing on the TV as their own people getting knocked about,
:32:46. > :32:55.for what? We had better start rethinking it. We are talking about
:32:56. > :32:59.500 Brits who have gone out to fight in Syria. I suspect it would have
:33:00. > :33:02.been more if William Hague and David Cameron got their way and we got
:33:03. > :33:06.involved in what is essentially a civil war. There would have been
:33:07. > :33:10.double that and it would have been utter madness. I think what we have
:33:11. > :33:15.to do in this country is to tackle extremism. Yes, it has to be done on
:33:16. > :33:19.a government basis but equally from the Muslim communities themselves.
:33:20. > :33:26.They have to deal with the tiny minority of extremists. 99% of
:33:27. > :33:29.Muslims in this country are peaceful, hard-working, obey the
:33:30. > :33:35.rule of law and are a benefit to Britain. OK. But the problem is you
:33:36. > :33:39.have a small minority who are basically giving everyone a bad
:33:40. > :33:42.name. This has to be done through education, teaching British values
:33:43. > :33:48.in schools, dealing with these pop-up jihadist meetings through
:33:49. > :33:52.anti-terrorist organisations, and the big one is let's stop involving
:33:53. > :33:53.ourselves in far-flung Middle East wars that have absolutely nothing to
:33:54. > :34:11.do with us. I thought, incidentally, Maajid
:34:12. > :34:15.Nawaz's contribution was excellent. I am old enough to remember the
:34:16. > :34:20.troubles in Ulster. I covered it as a reporter when they were at their
:34:21. > :34:28.worst, the times of the IRA, the Protestant terrorists, etc. And all
:34:29. > :34:33.I can see is that the only way to solve this is a two-way thing. It is
:34:34. > :34:36.a government thing, inasmuch as you have to cut of the source of the
:34:37. > :34:42.arms, the weapons that went to the IRA. In this circumstance, what all
:34:43. > :34:46.governments have failed to do is to cut off the supply of
:34:47. > :34:49.governments have failed to do is to preachers who come in here. As the
:34:50. > :34:52.governments have failed to do is to father of our boy in Cardiff said,
:34:53. > :34:56.he said he wasn't radicalised by the internet, he was radicalised in a
:34:57. > :35:02.room in Cardiff. In a mosque in Cardiff. How do we resolve that? We
:35:03. > :35:07.have to stop these radical extremists coming in. The other
:35:08. > :35:13.thing, it really comes down to the community. The community in Northern
:35:14. > :35:17.Ireland, the Catholic community, basically got sick to death and did
:35:18. > :35:22.not believe any more in what was going on. And it is when the
:35:23. > :35:28.community properly trains its young, properly talks to its young people,
:35:29. > :35:34.give them aspiration, and they make it clear they genuinely do not agree
:35:35. > :35:38.with this, then it started to change. It's a big responsibility on
:35:39. > :35:43.government to stop the preachers and give job opportunities and put money
:35:44. > :35:45.into it, but it is equally important that the community actually
:35:46. > :35:56.genuinely believes and convinces their young that it must not carry
:35:57. > :36:00.on and we must stop this. I have listened to what has been said, and
:36:01. > :36:04.the Conservative Party, the leading party in the country, have to make a
:36:05. > :36:09.stand on these extremists that are going out of the country and coming
:36:10. > :36:12.back in. You talk about action but the public want to know what you are
:36:13. > :36:17.going to do. When these come back into the country, what action are
:36:18. > :36:19.you going to take? There is or was the fact that we have good
:36:20. > :36:26.intelligence and counterterrorism measures. We have already taken away
:36:27. > :36:30.passports, so that they cannot even go out there, at least 64 people.
:36:31. > :36:36.Are we talking 500, 1000? go out there, at least 64 people.
:36:37. > :36:38.believe, and it is difficult without go out there, at least 64 people.
:36:39. > :36:41.good intelligence and good counterterrorism officers, which we
:36:42. > :36:46.do have. It is very difficult because we know one of the
:36:47. > :36:51.do have. It is very difficult going on holiday to Turkey and then
:36:52. > :36:52.finding their way to Syria or Iraq. I am seeing evidence in
:36:53. > :36:54.Nottinghamshire of I am seeing evidence in
:36:55. > :37:01.work within my local Muslim community, where I can think of one
:37:02. > :37:04.of my Muslim councillors who works absolutely with other women to
:37:05. > :37:07.persuade them in relation to the way they are bringing up their sons and
:37:08. > :37:12.the messages they are giving to their sons in that community. The
:37:13. > :37:14.other thing which is terribly important is the fact that many of
:37:15. > :37:17.these important is the fact that many of
:37:18. > :37:20.marginalised, often because they feel excluded because of racism and
:37:21. > :37:26.prejudice and ignorance, and because they feel they have no place and no
:37:27. > :37:31.value. What about when they come back from fighting in Syria? They
:37:32. > :37:35.will feel it even more, surely. The question was about them coming back,
:37:36. > :37:41.and you are in the government. What would you like to see happen? If we
:37:42. > :37:45.are only talking about 500, they can easily be controlled by, for
:37:46. > :37:48.example, you could tag them for a certain period of time, so you could
:37:49. > :37:53.monitor where they are going, what they are doing. After two or three
:37:54. > :37:58.months, when they have settled back into the community, leave them
:37:59. > :38:01.alone. If we can prove they have committed criminal offences and been
:38:02. > :38:07.involved in conspiracy, when they return that is what would happen. It
:38:08. > :38:12.is a criminal act to go and fight abroad, since 1870. We know that and
:38:13. > :38:18.that is why we take the passports away from people. We are introducing
:38:19. > :38:22.those measures as well, so when people come back we can take that
:38:23. > :38:29.action. I want you to answer the attack made on you. I am sure it was
:38:30. > :38:32.well-intentioned. I understand where you are coming from. The gentleman
:38:33. > :38:37.was talking because on my Twitter account, you can go and check it
:38:38. > :38:42.out, somebody tweeted an image of the Prophet Mohammed. As a Muslim, I
:38:43. > :38:46.retweeted it and said, I am not offended by anyone who is not bound
:38:47. > :38:52.by those rules to tweak the image. I said God is greater than to take
:38:53. > :38:55.offence. It was a cartoon of Jesus saying hello to Muhammad and
:38:56. > :39:01.Mohammed saying, how are you doing. It was really bland and it caused
:39:02. > :39:03.uproar. The reason is that it is prohibited within traditional
:39:04. > :39:09.interpretations of Sunni Islam to draw the Prophet Mohammed. My point
:39:10. > :39:12.was, coming back to this theme of communities, and this is where I
:39:13. > :39:16.would like to address you, sir. I have served time in prison, I
:39:17. > :39:22.opposed the Iraq war from a jail cell in Egypt. I know where you are
:39:23. > :39:24.coming from. I have seen all of the grievances of your worst nightmares,
:39:25. > :39:29.so I empathise with the concerns of Muslim communities. The issue is
:39:30. > :39:33.that we have to take the level of responsibility in our communities to
:39:34. > :39:37.address these issues. If racism was widespread when I grew up among
:39:38. > :39:40.white working classes in Essex, responsibility was taken to a point
:39:41. > :39:45.where we now have a black president of America. In civil society, it is
:39:46. > :39:49.now to blue to be racist. Likewise with homophobia and anti-Semitism.
:39:50. > :39:54.That is how civil society debates can shift when people get involved
:39:55. > :39:57.in activism. My purpose in retweeting the image was to say, we
:39:58. > :40:02.have to open up our faith to scrutiny, open our views and beliefs
:40:03. > :40:05.to scrutiny, as everyone else is scrutinised. We have to feel mature
:40:06. > :40:09.enough not to feel offended when somebody says, I do not agree with
:40:10. > :40:13.this view of your religion. We need to have an open debate about it, and
:40:14. > :40:22.that is what it means to be in a liberal society. You are right, it
:40:23. > :40:26.does have to be tackled in the communities. But equally, through
:40:27. > :40:30.our own actions, since the turn-of-the-century, we have been
:40:31. > :40:34.giving oxygen to these hate preachers because we have been
:40:35. > :40:37.following this sort of neo-conservative foreign policy
:40:38. > :40:41.where we think we can run around the world acting as the world's police
:40:42. > :40:46.man and spreading Western democracy to countries that have never known
:40:47. > :40:50.democracy. I am sorry. It just does not work. These civil wars are none
:40:51. > :40:53.of our business and we do not want to see any British blood spilled in
:40:54. > :41:03.these countries any more. I would like to take the next question. With
:41:04. > :41:08.Cameron 's seemingly having lost the battle over the next European
:41:09. > :41:12.Commission president, does this indicate future failure to
:41:13. > :41:16.renegotiate Britain's's relationship within the EU? It looks as though
:41:17. > :41:27.Jean-Claude Juncker is going to become president of the commission.
:41:28. > :41:33.I will get to vote on this in a couple of weeks. Pretty rare for you
:41:34. > :41:40.to go and vote in the European Parliament! You are hardly ever
:41:41. > :41:47.there. How many times have you been there since you have been an MEPs?
:41:48. > :41:52.Just the odd occasion. My job is to drive public opinion in this country
:41:53. > :41:56.and we have been very successful. Coming off the back of winning those
:41:57. > :42:01.European elections. I will get the opportunity to vote on Mr Juncker in
:42:02. > :42:04.a couple of weeks, and I will certainly be voting against his
:42:05. > :42:10.appointment because the European Parliament has that right to veto.
:42:11. > :42:14.The European Union has told us that we are very democratic now and we
:42:15. > :42:17.will give the European Parliament the right to vote on the European
:42:18. > :42:23.Commissioner. Guess how many candidates we have been given? One.
:42:24. > :42:28.Democracy, EU style. The fact is that if Mr Juncker is appointed, as
:42:29. > :42:31.we suspect, it will prove three things. One, the European Union has
:42:32. > :42:35.learned nothing from the European elections, where there was
:42:36. > :42:40.widespread euro scepticism across the European Union. Two, Mr
:42:41. > :42:44.Cameron's promise of renegotiation is pie in the sky, because you
:42:45. > :42:48.cannot renegotiate with an organisation that does not want to
:42:49. > :42:51.enter into negotiations. Thirdly, written is more isolated in Europe
:42:52. > :42:55.than it has ever been. Europe is going this way, we are going that
:42:56. > :43:00.way. The best thing to do is to leave the European Union, be friends
:43:01. > :43:08.with our European partners and trade with them, but leave the politics
:43:09. > :43:13.behind. Let me just here from the question before we come to Anna
:43:14. > :43:19.Soubry. Restate your view. I think it will be very difficult for him to
:43:20. > :43:24.renegotiate within the EU. But I think it is worth noting that around
:43:25. > :43:29.the time of the in-out referendum, we will have the presidency of the
:43:30. > :43:36.Council of ministers, and therefore he will be able to set the agenda
:43:37. > :43:39.somewhat. But that's by no means means he will be able to renegotiate
:43:40. > :43:51.a different relationship with the EU. And if this failure to get a
:43:52. > :43:57.change over Juncker means bad things for the renegotiation. Yes, he is
:43:58. > :44:01.part of the old guard. If we get elected, as a majority government,
:44:02. > :44:06.in 2015, we have set ourselves the absolute promise that we have two
:44:07. > :44:10.years to look at how we renegotiate our relationship with the European
:44:11. > :44:15.Union. I will put my cards on the table. I hope to remain a member of
:44:16. > :44:18.the European Union. It is in Britain's interests to remain within
:44:19. > :44:23.the European Union, but I don't like the current arrangement. I take the
:44:24. > :44:25.view, and it is increasingly shared across the European Union, that
:44:26. > :44:31.there is a mood for change. I think in those two years we will be able
:44:32. > :44:35.to establish alliances and sees that mood and we will be able to
:44:36. > :44:38.renegotiate. And then we will put it to the test and give people a
:44:39. > :44:42.referendum, and you will at last have the opportunity to decide
:44:43. > :44:46.whether you are in or out. If you vote the UKIP, they can't deliver
:44:47. > :44:56.that. All that they do, frankly, is take the money and don't turn up.
:44:57. > :45:01.You are paid, let me finish, you are an elected representative, not just
:45:02. > :45:07.of UKIP but of all the people in the constituency you represent, just
:45:08. > :45:11.like I am. I don't just represent the Tories, I represent all my
:45:12. > :45:14.constituents, and I certainly take my responsibilities seriously and I
:45:15. > :45:22.don't just take the money and not turn up to vote.
:45:23. > :45:29.APPLAUSE Hang on, hang on.
:45:30. > :45:33.Over half the votes which go through the European Parliament are
:45:34. > :45:37.non-legislative, they are not worth the paper they are written on. If
:45:38. > :45:41.there's a talk shop, it has no power to initiate any laws. The
:45:42. > :45:45.commission, which meets in secret, actually hands the laws down to the
:45:46. > :45:50.European Parliament to rubber stamp. The fact of the matter is, this is
:45:51. > :45:55.totally and utterly undemocratic and we'd be better off out. For you,
:45:56. > :46:01.Anna, for example, to make the laws of this land, all we want is for the
:46:02. > :46:04.people who make the laws to be the people we representing.
:46:05. > :46:10.APPLAUSE Do you have any qualms about, as you
:46:11. > :46:18.put it, having a flakey attendance record and taking about ?600,000 a
:46:19. > :46:23.year to do it? ?600,000? ! I wish I did take ?600 thoufz. An MEP's
:46:24. > :46:28.salary is ?81,000, but on top of that, you get... Let me finish. On
:46:29. > :46:34.top of that, you get 301 euro a day to sign in and, as I very rarely
:46:35. > :46:41.sign in, I earn less money than any other MEP. How many staff do you
:46:42. > :46:47.have though? My constituency has 7. 5 million people. Yours is about
:46:48. > :46:52.70,000. You will no doubt be issuing a writ for the ?6 00,000?
:46:53. > :46:57.70,000. You will no doubt be issuing idea where that figure came from.
:46:58. > :46:58.Over a number of years undoubtedly then.
:46:59. > :47:01.Over a number of years undoubtedly Juncker? I notice
:47:02. > :47:09.Over a number of years undoubtedly whole thing's been blown out of
:47:10. > :47:17.proportion? As you know, I don't agree with Ken on this one and it's
:47:18. > :47:20.not about the personality. The point is, it's not about the
:47:21. > :47:25.personalities, it's the fact that we need a new type of way of doing the
:47:26. > :47:30.European Union, dealing with the European Union. We don't need more
:47:31. > :47:35.of the same. Theres a generation of people. We need a new way of doing
:47:36. > :47:38.the EU if we are to stay in it as I want us to be in a European Union
:47:39. > :47:38.that works for the people, represents the
:47:39. > :47:44.right thing by them. We can do that. All right. There are others here.
:47:45. > :47:50.right thing by them. We can do that. know you are keen to keep on and on
:47:51. > :47:55.about it, but we have just got to ask John Prescott his view? In the
:47:56. > :47:59.1970s, I fought to get a referendum and we did get one and
:48:00. > :48:02.1970s, I fought to get a referendum that would take us out of Europe and
:48:03. > :48:06.I've never believed in a federal Europe. The free movement is giving
:48:07. > :48:11.us the federal Europe which I'm still against. But the people voted
:48:12. > :48:16.to stay in and I think they'll vote to stay in again. Now, coming to
:48:17. > :48:21.Juncker, I've worked with him and also I was in the European
:48:22. > :48:27.Parliament for a while. It wasn't a Parliament, it was an assembly.
:48:28. > :48:36.Still is. It has extra powers. But in my view, I disagree with him, I
:48:37. > :48:41.mean he's a decent kind of guy, he believes in a federal Europe. But
:48:42. > :48:45.Cameron has others in Europe that wanted to make some changes. He lost
:48:46. > :48:49.them by the way he negotiated. He got rid of them by going out and
:48:50. > :48:54.saying she's on my side, that created chaos in Germany. All the
:48:55. > :48:56.others supporting him were there. He's shown incompetence in
:48:57. > :49:01.negotiations again and very bad judgment. That's our Prime Minister.
:49:02. > :49:06.Second row from the back, you Sir? What I think of Mr Juncker
:49:07. > :49:10.personally is neither here nor there, but you keep using the word
:49:11. > :49:14.democracy. Mr Juncker's group is the biggest in the European Parliament,
:49:15. > :49:17.shouldn't they get the top job like the Conservatives do for being the
:49:18. > :49:24.biggest group in the British Parliament? I suspect - I'm the only
:49:25. > :49:28.true independent on this - and I suspect I'm like Cameron and haven't
:49:29. > :49:35.got a clue how to work this out. So on the one hand, I really, really
:49:36. > :49:39.resent the lack of democracy in Europe. I find it absolutely
:49:40. > :49:46.unbelievable, the idea that they can decide that this man from Luxembourg
:49:47. > :49:51.is going to be the effectively the Prime Minister of Europe. President
:49:52. > :49:58.of Europe. That's not democracy because you haven't got a vote in
:49:59. > :50:09.it. Did you choose? No you didn't. So I'm also, I agree, I'm not going
:50:10. > :50:13.to say anything but I'm against the federalists. I don't believe anybody
:50:14. > :50:17.should be telling me how to run the nuts-and-bolts of this country. I
:50:18. > :50:21.do, on the other hand, believe in a European, if you like, economic free
:50:22. > :50:26.zone. I would like the fact that I can move around Europe. I like being
:50:27. > :50:31.part of Europe in that way. I suspect I might, as John pointed
:50:32. > :50:36.out, end up voting to stay. But I have to say, every single day it
:50:37. > :50:41.gets harder because they slap the lack of democracy in our face.
:50:42. > :50:46.You, Sir, up there? This whole debate is a prime example of why
:50:47. > :50:50.voter turnout is so low. Nobody really cares about Mr Juncker or who
:50:51. > :50:54.is the President. It's about what actually happens to the real people.
:50:55. > :51:02.At the moment, we haven't had a question that affects real people in
:51:03. > :51:10.the UK and that's why people are so disenfranchised. John Prescott sat
:51:11. > :51:18.there and moaned about the Asians, yet you were part of the Government
:51:19. > :51:27.who voted for a war in Iraq and I just find it utterly mind-blowing.
:51:28. > :51:31.I'm happy that the Liberal Democrats didn't support the Iraq war but it's
:51:32. > :51:35.about the process and how to make it relevant is that the suggestion of
:51:36. > :51:39.Nick Clegg, what we have been pushing for, the countries should
:51:40. > :51:43.have a say as to who is Head of The Commission and not the MEPs,
:51:44. > :51:47.especially those elected not to do anything and claim the money for it.
:51:48. > :51:50.Hold on, stop fighting little battles and come back to the
:51:51. > :51:53.question that the questioner asked. Does the failure over this
:51:54. > :51:57.particular battle mean that the battle to get change will be more
:51:58. > :52:00.difficult? Yes, it will be more difficult but there are serious
:52:01. > :52:03.concerns ALL: Three parties have taken the same
:52:04. > :52:07.stance and it's rare that happens and they've done it. It's happened
:52:08. > :52:10.over this issue. They have done it because there are genuine concerns
:52:11. > :52:13.that Anna and everyone on the panel have raised about, for example, the
:52:14. > :52:17.sheer waste of money in the EU, the bureaucracy and the way in which the
:52:18. > :52:20.Parliament shifts every year. Millions of pound are wasted on
:52:21. > :52:27.shifting the Parliament twice a year. That is why we need a
:52:28. > :52:32.referendum. Juncker is from the old way of doing
:52:33. > :52:37.things and there needs to be a new vision for Europe. We all love our
:52:38. > :52:42.Swiss watches and Belgium chocolate, German cars and proposing in Paris,
:52:43. > :52:49.like I did! What we don't like, is the waste of money...
:52:50. > :52:53.LAUGHTER A referendum is a good thing from within Europe, stay
:52:54. > :53:00.within Europe and I would vote for negotiating to stay within the EU so
:53:01. > :53:04.we can stlen then our hand. -- strengthen our hand. I think
:53:05. > :53:11.everybody on the panel ice maizing the real point is is people want to
:53:12. > :53:14.know what are the terms that we want to renegotiate in terms of what are
:53:15. > :53:18.the key factors in what people want. I know a lot of people in business
:53:19. > :53:21.want to remain part of Europe but they are not happy with the aspect
:53:22. > :53:25.of the political, you know, integration and things like that.
:53:26. > :53:30.Also when you look at a day when today, for example, the statistics
:53:31. > :53:34.of immigration shows 400,000 more net migration to the UK which is not
:53:35. > :53:39.necessarily a problem, but people need to remember we need to develop
:53:40. > :53:45.our infrastructure to absorb these people and that's the real key, yew
:53:46. > :53:48.issue here and it's about making the infrastructure available. Because
:53:49. > :53:50.people are getting really, really annoyed that it's not the
:53:51. > :53:54.infrastructure which is built. People are very passionate in this
:53:55. > :53:57.country, we have a very, very diverse community and everybody
:53:58. > :54:02.should be proud of that. But it's the infrastructure, it's not built
:54:03. > :54:06.to absorb this. Paul Nuttall, does he have the
:54:07. > :54:11.solution for you in UKIP or not? I think to be honest, the idea of
:54:12. > :54:21.being completely out of Europe is very, very, very dangerous. Very
:54:22. > :54:24.dangerous. Hear, hear. APPLAUSE
:54:25. > :54:30.Just a brief answer, Paul. I want to get one last question in too before
:54:31. > :54:35.we stop. If Britain came out, we could trade and be friends with our
:54:36. > :54:40.European partners. We are the sixth largest economy. We have links to
:54:41. > :54:45.the Commonwealth. This country could be more democratic, more free and
:54:46. > :54:50.have more money. It makes sense to leave the European Union. We'd be
:54:51. > :54:53.far better in campaigning for what issues are and trying to move
:54:54. > :54:55.people's votes to come back to making more decisions in
:54:56. > :55:01.Westminster. All right, we'll leave it there.
:55:02. > :55:05.Campaign to stay in. I don't like leave ago sirious topic like this,
:55:06. > :55:12.but this is one topic that everyone is concerned about, and it's a
:55:13. > :55:17.question from Samina Hussain. Does Suarez' match ban suggest football
:55:18. > :55:22.is soft on violent behaviour? Is football soft on behaviour, just
:55:23. > :55:28.four months for biting someone's shoulder? You never bit anyone's
:55:29. > :55:38.shoulder, did you, John? I bet you wanted to? I'm a bit traditionalist
:55:39. > :55:42.like that. Just a little right hook. Suarez, properly treated. Is it
:55:43. > :55:47.right. Should he have been drummed out of football? He's a shocker.
:55:48. > :55:51.It's so sad because he's actually a brilliant footballer, I mean even
:55:52. > :55:58.Paul, we'd agree on this wouldn't we, a Liverpool fan! It was
:55:59. > :56:00.outrageous, third time he's done it. Personally if you could, I would
:56:01. > :56:04.have him charged. Something Personally if you could, I would
:56:05. > :56:07.that, he'd be on the edge of going Personally if you could, I would
:56:08. > :56:16.away. Four months. Liverpool are selling him, aren't they?
:56:17. > :56:17.away. Four months. Liverpool are think the fact that he's now gone
:56:18. > :56:23.and think the fact that he's now gone
:56:24. > :56:29.to see him in a Red Shirt until November, will be far more difficult
:56:30. > :56:39.for us to win the league. He'll have to take his teeth out!
:56:40. > :56:43.APPLAUSE I'm going to agree with my UKIP
:56:44. > :56:46.colleague and say, I'm also a I'm going to agree with my UKIP
:56:47. > :56:52.Liverpool fan. I've been a long-life fan. Oh, dear. You'll Never Walk
:56:53. > :56:55.Alone. We have just discussed something about the young men
:56:56. > :56:59.getting involved in violence and the dangers of that and how to stop it.
:57:00. > :57:05.This is not an example to set. Sportsmen should be setting a better
:57:06. > :57:10.example. Things should be coming together to pull this country
:57:11. > :57:14.together and not divide it. It's justified that he's disciplined. I
:57:15. > :57:18.can't resist this. It's a great topic to get our teeth into! And I
:57:19. > :57:21.just want to say, if Liverpool get an off, they should bite their hand
:57:22. > :57:27.off! All right.
:57:28. > :57:29.We've got to stop, but you look so eager to come in. I'll just bring
:57:30. > :57:33.you in, the young man eager to come in. I'll just bring
:57:34. > :57:37.left there. Quickly. I was wondering if the BBC was soft on football
:57:38. > :57:45.violence as they had Joey Barton on the panel a few weeks ago. Very
:57:46. > :57:49.true, very true. What kind of an example of that is that as a
:57:50. > :57:57.panelist? We have got John Prescott. To be fair, John acted in
:57:58. > :58:00.self-defence. No charges! Our hour is
:58:01. > :58:06.self-defence. sorry. I know there are lots to say
:58:07. > :58:11.on that, but our time is up. Next week we are in Croydon and
:58:12. > :58:13.we'll have Alan Johnson, Jo Swinson for the Liberal Democrats and the
:58:14. > :58:18.Deputy editor of for the Liberal Democrats and the
:58:19. > :58:23.Tony Gallagher. The week after that, we'll be in Inverness. We have a
:58:24. > :58:27.panel with no politicians at all on it in Inverness. Don't ask me why,
:58:28. > :58:30.but that's the way it is. If you want to come
:58:31. > :58:33.but that's the way it is. If you Inverness, go to the website and
:58:34. > :58:36.but that's the way it is. If you address is on the screen. Or you can
:58:37. > :58:41.call us: We'll get in touch with you. My
:58:42. > :58:46.thanks to all our panelists here and to all of you who came to
:58:47. > :58:48.Wolverhampton to take part in tonight's Question Time. Until next
:58:49. > :59:28.Thursday, good night. What's up?
:59:29. > :59:35.Oi, oi! Hey, Glastonbury.
:59:36. > :59:37.How you doing?