:00:00. > :00:20.Ken Clarke, who first served in Margaret Thatcher's Government,
:00:21. > :00:23.was Chancellor of the Exchequer under John Major and is retiring
:00:24. > :00:25.at the next election after 50 years as an MP.
:00:26. > :00:27.Labour's Shadow Education Secretary, promoted by Jeremy Corbyn
:00:28. > :00:34.this summer, after just one year as an MP Angela Rayner.
:00:35. > :00:38.From Ukip, not an MP or MEP but the runner-up in their
:00:39. > :00:44.Economist and former Finance Minister of Greece now
:00:45. > :00:51.trying to found a new pan-European political movement Yanis Varoufakis.
:00:52. > :00:53.And the historian and previous proprietor of the Daily Telegraph,
:00:54. > :00:56.who served two years in prison in the US for fraud,
:00:57. > :01:00.protesting his innocence and railing against the American legal system
:01:01. > :01:19.as fraudulent, fascistic and corrupt, Conrad Black.
:01:20. > :01:21.As ever, you can join the debate on Facebook,
:01:22. > :01:43.The first question from Carol Hewson, please. Clinton or Trump?
:01:44. > :01:57.Clinton or Trump, Conrad Black? Trump. On their merits, they are a
:01:58. > :02:04.Chouly both very nice people. The caricature of the ugly American that
:02:05. > :02:09.you sometimes imagine Trump to be is not the real Donald Trump. He is a
:02:10. > :02:15.very amusing raconteur and a very generous man. And she is a most
:02:16. > :02:20.gracious woman. Conversationally, she is a good deal more course than
:02:21. > :02:25.he is. But the reason I think it should be Trump is that the last 20
:02:26. > :02:28.years have been the 20 worst years of presidential misgovernment in the
:02:29. > :02:34.history of the United States, by both parties. You know the great
:02:35. > :02:40.recession, the housing bubble, that they doubled the deficit. 233 years
:02:41. > :02:46.of accumulated deficit doubled in seven years to produce a 1% economic
:02:47. > :02:51.growth rate, after 15 million people have fallen out of the workforce,
:02:52. > :02:56.the shambles in the Middle East, abandoning virtually all the ground
:02:57. > :03:01.forces, military capability, for a whole decade there. And now we have
:03:02. > :03:06.the Russians and Iranians as allies in what is left of Iraq. And they
:03:07. > :03:13.are opponents at least half the time in what is left of Syria and this
:03:14. > :03:16.horrible humanitarian crisis largely generated by well-intentioned but
:03:17. > :03:22.incompetent American - led intervention. And why Trump? One, he
:03:23. > :03:28.is not complicit in any of it. They took Congress away from Clinton and
:03:29. > :03:32.brought in Gingerich, they took it back and gave it to Nancy Pelosi,
:03:33. > :03:38.brought it back. Both parties, legislative and executive branch,
:03:39. > :03:42.have been incompetent for 20 years and Donald is not complicit in any
:03:43. > :03:48.of it. There is one other aspect. These are not dynasty is, Bush and
:03:49. > :03:55.Clinton. To the extent that I know them, they are nice people, but that
:03:56. > :03:58.is not the issue. 32 years in a row, from 1981 to 2013, one member or
:03:59. > :04:03.other of one of those families was in one of the three top officers in
:04:04. > :04:08.the US government, President, Vice President and secretary of the
:04:09. > :04:12.state. 32 years in a row. They are passing the great offices of state
:04:13. > :04:20.back and forth amongst themselves. It is a stitch up, and Donald is
:04:21. > :04:25.right, it is time for a change. Angela Rayner. Nobody will be
:04:26. > :04:28.surprised to hear me say absolutely, Hillary, if I am given the choice
:04:29. > :04:33.between Hillary and Donald Trump, and not just because of her gender.
:04:34. > :04:36.We have always had a close relationship with the United States
:04:37. > :04:39.and it petrified me that we would become a laughing stock across the
:04:40. > :04:44.world if someone like Donald Trump is at the helm of the United States.
:04:45. > :04:48.I think he is a misogynist, he has said horrible things about people
:04:49. > :05:02.and instead of uniting the United States and having a focus
:05:03. > :05:07.on how to bring about a globalised world, free from tyranny and abuse,
:05:08. > :05:09.he seems to want to provoke more of it. So I would want to see Hillary,
:05:10. > :05:12.rather than Donald Trump. The woman in the green jacket. With the size
:05:13. > :05:16.of the United States of America, is the best you can come up with, these
:05:17. > :05:22.candidates? Ken Clarke. I agree with that. I would vote for Clinton if I
:05:23. > :05:27.was American. I actually agree with some of Conrad's comments on the
:05:28. > :05:30.problems of American politics, which is not satisfactory. I agree with
:05:31. > :05:34.his criticism of policy in the Middle East for the last 20 years,
:05:35. > :05:39.which has not actually been a triumph. But the idea that Donald
:05:40. > :05:43.Trump is the answer, I probably don't need to argue too fervently to
:05:44. > :05:52.a British television audience, or an audience in Hartlepool. Why? Well,
:05:53. > :05:56.the whole thing, he is a ridiculous parody. In public he may be a
:05:57. > :06:00.delightful and charming man in private, but I wouldn't know. As
:06:01. > :06:10.Conrad says, I'm surprised. He comes over as the most outrageous kind of
:06:11. > :06:14.loudmouth food. If his gaffes were deliberate, it would be better but
:06:15. > :06:17.he is not doing it to provoke. He keeps saying silly and quite
:06:18. > :06:21.offensive things. The tragedy is that this is an election for the
:06:22. > :06:27.Chief Executive of the most powerful nation in the world. There are a
:06:28. > :06:34.huge list of problems to be tackled, some of which Conrad has mentioned,
:06:35. > :06:40.others we can think of. It has a great bearing on us. And the debate
:06:41. > :06:44.that is going on, the public debate, it is farcical that this is the way
:06:45. > :06:53.you are deciding this crucial post for the next four years. You, on the
:06:54. > :06:57.gangway. As far as Clinton is concerned, the reason she is not
:06:58. > :07:01.running away with it is because she is part of the establishment. We can
:07:02. > :07:06.agree or disagree with some old Trump all we want, but at the end of
:07:07. > :07:11.the day, here's that outsider. That is the only reason why he has got
:07:12. > :07:17.this far in the first place. Are you for Trump or Clinton? Neither. If I
:07:18. > :07:23.had a vote it would be Gary Johnson. The woman at the back. This is a hot
:07:24. > :07:28.topic for me because we have dual nationality and I vote in the US
:07:29. > :07:31.presidential election. Hillary Clinton, compared to Donald Trump,
:07:32. > :07:38.he is a Boy Scout compared to her. You could not trust her if her
:07:39. > :07:43.tongue came has a litany. Anyone else, Conrad is right, would be in
:07:44. > :07:47.jail for what she has done. It is only because of this Administration
:07:48. > :07:49.that she is not, and Donald Trump is definitely the best person to go
:07:50. > :07:54.with, given the choice. APPLAUSE
:07:55. > :08:02.Yanis Varoufakis. Well, I was asked this question a few months ago. I
:08:03. > :08:06.was in New York and on stage with Noam Chomsky. We were both asked,
:08:07. > :08:10.what would we do if we were Americans and had a vote in the
:08:11. > :08:14.night of states. Both of us, in one voice, said, if we were in a safe
:08:15. > :08:20.state we would vote for somebody else. If you are left, the Green
:08:21. > :08:26.Party, if you are right leaning, the Libertarian party. But if you are in
:08:27. > :08:31.a swing state, you hold your nose and you vote for Hillary. And the
:08:32. > :08:38.reason why you need to hold your nose is that, Wessberg by whisper,
:08:39. > :08:47.e-mail by e-mail, memo by memo, we are finding out the truth about
:08:48. > :08:50.Hillary Clinton who is servile to Wall Street, geopolitically
:08:51. > :08:54.irresponsible and has nothing but contempt for the democratic process
:08:55. > :08:59.within her own party. But having said that, Donald Trump, yes, he is
:09:00. > :09:04.an outsider and I like outsiders. I consider myself an outsider in
:09:05. > :09:07.politics. But let me remind you that Benito Mussolini was an outsider and
:09:08. > :09:08.that was not a very good choice for Italians.
:09:09. > :09:17.APPLAUSE Allow me to make the point, David
:09:18. > :09:28.and Carol, that the juxtaposition with Mussolini was not arbitrary.
:09:29. > :09:31.Mussolini also used exactly the same strategy of the ring up support
:09:32. > :09:38.through cultivating fear and loathing and division. He was also
:09:39. > :09:42.appealing to blue-collar workers, the abandoned working-class.
:09:43. > :09:48.Mussolini introduced Social Security in Italy. That is fascism for you.
:09:49. > :09:52.Dividing people, turning one part of the population against the other,
:09:53. > :10:01.pacifying the working class by means of some transfers, and cultivating
:10:02. > :10:08.the ugliest and more vulgar aspects of humanity. Lisa Duffy. I have
:10:09. > :10:13.family in America and they are so concerned with what is happening out
:10:14. > :10:17.there. As the lady said, is this the best America has to offer? That is
:10:18. > :10:22.shocking, to be honest with you. They are both deeply unpopular
:10:23. > :10:27.characters. Theresa May is going to need to build a relationship with
:10:28. > :10:33.whoever wins in 20 days. And to make sure we have a stable western
:10:34. > :10:37.society. But actually, Hillary's experience being Secretary of State
:10:38. > :10:41.puts her ahead of Trump. She is ahead in the polls. What Trump has
:10:42. > :10:47.done, and we can compare a lot of it to what happened here with Brexit,
:10:48. > :10:51.it is disaffected voters, voters who feel the establishment no longer
:10:52. > :10:56.represents them. I think that is why Trump is building this momentum.
:10:57. > :11:02.Your leader of Ukip is a Trump supporter and was last night at the
:11:03. > :11:08.debate. Nigel is his own man and... I thought he was Ukip's man. Nigel
:11:09. > :11:11.is in America making his own decision. Ukip, from my perspective,
:11:12. > :11:16.should not get involved in American politics. We did not like it when
:11:17. > :11:22.Oban my came over here and said we should vote to stay, so why should
:11:23. > :11:28.we go over there just to mop but that is Nigel's choice and he is
:11:29. > :11:31.supporting Trump as Nigel Farage. The comparison is that there are
:11:32. > :11:37.many disaffected people out there and this is why Trump is building
:11:38. > :11:41.momentum. I don't feel that if I was over there I could vote for Trump.
:11:42. > :11:48.Equally, as the gentleman said, I would probably be going for a third
:11:49. > :11:53.option. It is deeply concerning. Yes, you, sir. Conrad Black said
:11:54. > :11:59.that Donald Trump was not complicit in some of the American decisions
:12:00. > :12:01.over the last few, but what he is absolutely complicit in is the
:12:02. > :12:03.systematic degradation of women, whether it is verbal, whether it is
:12:04. > :12:11.physical... APPLAUSE
:12:12. > :12:17.How anybody could put a cross in the box next to a man who has said and
:12:18. > :12:21.done the things he has done to women... I could not look my
:12:22. > :12:26.daughter in the eye if I voted for that man. The fact is, he has a
:12:27. > :12:33.perfect record as an equal opportunity employer. He is
:12:34. > :12:37.definitely an absolutely fanatical proponent and practitioner of equal
:12:38. > :12:42.pay for work of equal value. He promotes women. He is not a
:12:43. > :12:46.misogynist, certainly not a racist. I agree that some of the things he
:12:47. > :12:53.has said have been outrageous but you will note, if you look at it,
:12:54. > :12:56.that the Republican primaries this year pulled 60% more votes than the
:12:57. > :13:05.Republican primaries four years ago. That is because Donald has gone
:13:06. > :13:08.after what here would be the Alf Garnett vote, people who do not vote
:13:09. > :13:10.and think the whole thing is a stitch up, a bunch of snobs
:13:11. > :13:15.pretending to go through democracy and they have nothing to do with it.
:13:16. > :13:19.Donald is getting these people energised and up and out. And he has
:13:20. > :13:24.only said what he felt he needed to do to get those people going. He has
:13:25. > :13:29.made absolutely clear that he is for legitimate immigration. He is
:13:30. > :13:33.absolutely in favour of women's writes. As for the British angle, I
:13:34. > :13:38.must say for Hillary, too, both of them would be a massive improvement
:13:39. > :13:42.in terms of respect for Britain and caring to build back the great
:13:43. > :13:45.British - American alliance of Roosevelt and Churchill and Reagan
:13:46. > :13:52.and Thatcher, both candidates would do that. What Donald Trump has said
:13:53. > :13:56.does matter and the fact that he has said so many degrading things about
:13:57. > :14:06.women is a disgrace. He basically condone sexual assault on women. He
:14:07. > :14:10.apologised. Oh, it is OK then. He did not apologise for calling the
:14:11. > :14:13.Mexicans rapists that must be kept out of the country by building a
:14:14. > :14:20.huge wall that Mexico should pay for. This is the kind of investment
:14:21. > :14:24.in hatred. 12 million illegal migrants. What has the political
:14:25. > :14:28.class of America been doing? 12 million unskilled workers come in a
:14:29. > :14:33.legally and just sit there. That is not leadership. But he called them
:14:34. > :14:42.rapists. He called a few of them rapists. He said the percentage is
:14:43. > :14:46.higher. The trouble is that he has taken this debate into the argument
:14:47. > :14:50.about trivia. I could not care less what insult the pearls against
:14:51. > :14:56.Mexicans. Obviously his behaviour towards women is outrageous. It
:14:57. > :15:00.distracts from the point that we want a better government of the most
:15:01. > :15:06.powerful nation in the world. He gets votes, as Conrad just said, it
:15:07. > :15:09.is protest, antiestablishment protest, anti-Washington protest,
:15:10. > :15:15.people disappointed, change is not helping them, those who miss out, as
:15:16. > :15:19.Theresa May says. It produces Marine Le Pen in France, the 5-star
:15:20. > :15:23.movement led by a professional comedian in Italy, who is winning
:15:24. > :15:29.elections now. I could go throughout Europe. There are groups, and
:15:30. > :15:33.actually Nigel Farage also represented protest, as did the
:15:34. > :15:39.Leave vote, which is why he is out there supporting him. Donald is more
:15:40. > :15:45.serious and his party slogan is not the F word.
:15:46. > :15:51.We have had a quarter of the programme on this, we'll know in a
:15:52. > :15:57.couple of weeks who it is. Gary Young please? Is it time for the
:15:58. > :16:01.MPs, media and the Remainers to stop complaining and positively embrace
:16:02. > :16:08.the will of the British majority? APPLAUSE.
:16:09. > :16:21.Ken Clarke, you were the person who said a referendum isn't binding,
:16:22. > :16:24.it's just an opinion poll? I firstly it's in the interests of Britain to
:16:25. > :16:29.be in the European Union and we have benefitted from it over the last 40
:16:30. > :16:34.years. The country's been confirmed. It gave us the chance of reforming
:16:35. > :16:36.when I was a young man and made us a modern country with a modern
:16:37. > :16:42.economy. We had to create that, we are in a big setting in the single
:16:43. > :16:45.market. I have never been in favour of referendums, I was open about
:16:46. > :16:49.that. My constituents voted to Remain. I've been on the losing side
:16:50. > :16:53.of general elections, when I turn up in Parliament I'm not told I agree
:16:54. > :16:58.with the Parliament, it's wrong for me to start voting against the
:16:59. > :17:02.education policy or something, and I am there to use my best judgment
:17:03. > :17:07.which happens to coincide with my constituents. The other thing is,
:17:08. > :17:13.all right, we voted Brexit, I'm sure we are going to leave the European
:17:14. > :17:19.Union. The campaign, the arguments did not touch on what we actually
:17:20. > :17:24.voted for, what system are we now putting in place. Am I going to be
:17:25. > :17:29.told that we are now going to renegotiate the single market, the
:17:30. > :17:34.customs union, presumably elaborate negotiations will go about trade,
:17:35. > :17:39.automobiles and components. I'm going to be told I don't agree with
:17:40. > :17:46.that. And it was oh no, no, no, the British people have spoken and have
:17:47. > :17:49.decided that this arrangement is the one Parliament's got to vote for.
:17:50. > :18:00.That is what they decided isn't it? It was never even discussed. A whole
:18:01. > :18:06.lot of different reasons why they voted. Absolutely nobody even talked
:18:07. > :18:10.about what we did instead of staying in the European Union. Brexiteers in
:18:11. > :18:15.Parliament don't agree with each other. No, but do you embrace the
:18:16. > :18:20.will of the British majority which is what Gary's question was, that
:18:21. > :18:25.the majority want to leave the EU and do you support that? Not for the
:18:26. > :18:32.first time. I am totally against referendums, but I don't want to
:18:33. > :18:36.make that... Is that That dodges the arguments about Europe. I've often
:18:37. > :18:40.looked at an opinion poll and said I don't agree with the majority, I
:18:41. > :18:44.think they're mistaken, I don't think that's genuinely in our
:18:45. > :18:49.interests. My job as a politician is to try to argue to change opinion to
:18:50. > :18:59.vote for what I believe to be right and then if I get chance... Gary? I
:19:00. > :19:04.think during the lead up to the referendum, lots of people had done
:19:05. > :19:07.a lot more research than the media or politicians gave us credit for.
:19:08. > :19:13.Absolutely. APPLAUSE.
:19:14. > :19:18.You know, we spent a lot more time and a lot more effort Wading through
:19:19. > :19:22.the rubbish that we heard and the silly in-fighting and all of the
:19:23. > :19:27.rubbish statistics that was coming out. We done a lot more research. I
:19:28. > :19:31.know a lot of people, and obviously there's a lot of people that did
:19:32. > :19:34.that too. Politicians work for us, they work for us, they don't work
:19:35. > :19:36.for anybody else. They work for us.
:19:37. > :19:42.APPLAUSE. ? You think Ken Clarke should accept
:19:43. > :19:45.what's happened in other words? I just think that all I've heard since
:19:46. > :19:50.the referendum has been the result which was a shock result. It wasn't
:19:51. > :19:55.for me, but it was a shock result. It's negativity, that's all I've
:19:56. > :19:59.heard. I want to hear positivity, I want to hear some... Positivity
:20:00. > :20:03.breeds positive Li Tie, so at the end of the day, my kids come to me
:20:04. > :20:08.and ask me what Brexit is all about, all they see on the news and stuff
:20:09. > :20:13.on the telly is negative. They are getting taught negative stuff at
:20:14. > :20:19.school too which I'm not happy about -- positivity. Lisa Duffy? You make
:20:20. > :20:24.a fantastic point, when are they going to stop moaning. Ken doesn't
:20:25. > :20:26.like referendums, is that because people are making decisions?
:20:27. > :20:31.APPLAUSE. More people than ever before voted
:20:32. > :20:35.in that referendum and 17.4 million people wanted to leave. That is a
:20:36. > :20:45.phenomenal result. Our politicians should not ignore that. I find it
:20:46. > :20:49.quite bizarre that the MPs that are now claiming the sovereignty from
:20:50. > :20:53.our Parliament, they're demanding their sovereignty rights when they
:20:54. > :20:57.have been giving away our sovereignty for the last 30 years
:20:58. > :21:00.and I think that's ridiculous. APPLAUSE.
:21:01. > :21:05.. I don't think they are moving fast enough. Had I become leader of Ukip
:21:06. > :21:08.I would have pushed for the repealing of the 1972 communities
:21:09. > :21:12.act and get the decision-making back in the hands of our Parliament, not
:21:13. > :21:19.trying to get 27 member states all to agree around a table. If we talk
:21:20. > :21:22.about trade and single market, America, two trillion pounds in
:21:23. > :21:25.terms of investment and they don't have to be part of the single
:21:26. > :21:30.market, they don't have to have free movement of people. Half a trillion
:21:31. > :21:33.in China and 164 million in Japan. We have got countries queueing up
:21:34. > :21:36.wanting the trade with us. Let's get on with the job, please.
:21:37. > :21:42.OK, the woman there? APPLAUSE.
:21:43. > :21:47.The second row? I think saying that people should stop complaining about
:21:48. > :21:50.the result when they voted to Remain is saying you shouldn't stand up for
:21:51. > :21:56.what we think. I didn't get the ability to vote because I'm 16 and I
:21:57. > :22:00.thought we should Remain. To say people should stop moaning for what
:22:01. > :22:04.they believe in. I think we should have the right to say what they
:22:05. > :22:15.think, I don't think people should say stop complaining. If you voted
:22:16. > :22:19.for something and it didn't go your way, you should be able to say. I'm
:22:20. > :22:24.not saying you can't have an opinion. I'm saying in the media,
:22:25. > :22:31.especially, as well as politicians that I've seen on the media, all
:22:32. > :22:34.it's about is doom and gloom. The vote's been, Ken Clarke said he
:22:35. > :22:40.doesn't like referendums but that's in the past. We have voted, let's
:22:41. > :22:47.embrace it and take it forward. Yanis Varoufakis? Before the
:22:48. > :22:55.referendum, even though I'm one of those foreigners that you want to
:22:56. > :23:01.get out... No, no, no, let's get it right. Thank you, I feel loved here.
:23:02. > :23:07.I came to this country, Scotland, England, Wales, Leeds, campaigning
:23:08. > :23:11.for what I would refer to a radical Remain in the EU against this EU.
:23:12. > :23:18.You folks didn't buy this argument, you voted for Brexit. As a democrat,
:23:19. > :23:23.I have to agree with you. I despise firstly the demonisation of the
:23:24. > :23:28.people who voted against us, people like me, and I despise the way in
:23:29. > :23:33.which the establishment would like to do to the British people what the
:23:34. > :23:39.European Union did to the Irish in 2008. You member the Irish and the
:23:40. > :23:44.Lisbon Treaty, voted against it, and they were asked to vote again and
:23:45. > :23:48.they were told they would have to keep voting until they delivered the
:23:49. > :23:53.right verdict, right. Sure thing. Having said that, the greatest
:23:54. > :23:58.argument for Brexit, even though it didn't convince me because I remain
:23:59. > :24:02.a Remainor, the greatest argument for Brexit concerns the restoration
:24:03. > :24:10.of national sovereignty and the sovereignty of the House of Commons.
:24:11. > :24:13.-- Remainor. But what does this mean at this juncture where we are? It
:24:14. > :24:17.means we need to create the circumstances for the House of
:24:18. > :24:22.Commons to enter into a debate on what kind of Brexit you have,
:24:23. > :24:26.because my interpretation of the 23rd June is that you lot, the
:24:27. > :24:31.British people I mean, since I'm not one of you, what you said to the
:24:32. > :24:36.establishment was, start cooking, recipe will follow. In other words,
:24:37. > :24:40.we want Brexit, we don't know what Brexit we want because we haven't
:24:41. > :24:46.had an opportunity to discuss this. Yes and we were clear it was about
:24:47. > :24:50.managing... You were aware. Hang on, Yanis, you know Europe well enough,
:24:51. > :24:53.you were a Finance Minister in Greece, you know the workings of it.
:24:54. > :24:57.It would have been impossible to say we want Brexit and by the way this
:24:58. > :25:02.is the detail. Of course. It's not a criticism, I'm saying it's a fact
:25:03. > :25:06.that Britain has decided for Brexit, but you've not decided which Brexit
:25:07. > :25:09.and there is a multitude of potential Brexit and which Brexit
:25:10. > :25:14.you choose is going to determine the future of this nation and I do not
:25:15. > :25:19.want to see that future being decided behind closed doors by this
:25:20. > :25:24.Department of Exit, whatever it is that you call it, staffed by several
:25:25. > :25:29.people of very low IQ, in my estimation. Really, who are these?
:25:30. > :25:34.Who're absolutely outside the mainstream... You should... I think
:25:35. > :25:38.you have to name names if you are going to say that. I'm not going to
:25:39. > :25:43.mention names, you know the names very well. All right. The woman
:25:44. > :25:47.here? The biggest shock for me was yes, the country voted out, so for
:25:48. > :25:50.me, why isn't our Parliament, why aren't our politicians backing the
:25:51. > :25:54.people, the people have said it. After all, we are the ones that vote
:25:55. > :26:01.you in, so why aren't you backing the people, why isn't that
:26:02. > :26:05.happening? Another big shock... Ken Clarke who says he disagreed and 48%
:26:06. > :26:11.of the country agree with Ken Clarke, he should ignore all that?
:26:12. > :26:16.The people have said they want out. So why aren't you backing us?
:26:17. > :26:21.ALL SPEAK AT ONCE. Leave the EU, we want to take
:26:22. > :26:27.control of our own British industry. Do you want companies that produce
:26:28. > :26:32.staff in your area? Every time they export something to the continent,
:26:33. > :26:38.do you want them to have to submit themselves to customs report? You
:26:39. > :26:43.are going into detail which you have already said... Hang on, you are
:26:44. > :26:46.going into detail which you have already said it would have been
:26:47. > :26:54.impossible to know then. Conrad Black? I was a Brexiter because
:26:55. > :27:05.Prime Minister Cameron promised full on treaty change. He came back with,
:27:06. > :27:10.as I understand it, an EU acceptance of a principle that would consider
:27:11. > :27:17.British applications for varied treatment of migrants. That's not
:27:18. > :27:26.full on British treaty change. I am a traditionalist, and I believe in
:27:27. > :27:34.this aisle, it's one of the world's greatest nation. Ken Clarke and I
:27:35. > :27:41.have had this argument for 30 years and always very cordial and usually
:27:42. > :27:45.over a good deal of Scottish whisky, but the fact is, you British must
:27:46. > :27:55.understand that you are one of the greatest nations in the world.
:27:56. > :28:00.APPLAUSE. I think the European countries have
:28:01. > :28:04.set aside the horrible quarrels that have made the country a blood bath
:28:05. > :28:09.for thousands of years. We are all rejoicing that, but that doesn't
:28:10. > :28:15.mean that Britain has to be treated like a town council in Portugal or
:28:16. > :28:19.something where you have to raise bananas in certain ways and have
:28:20. > :28:21.one-size-fits-all condoms and everything, for goodness sake, it's
:28:22. > :28:26.a great nation. APPLAUSE.
:28:27. > :28:29.You on the gangway? The comment I find insulting is from Gary on the
:28:30. > :28:33.front row suggesting his children's heads are being filled with
:28:34. > :28:36.anti-Brexit ideas. Working in a school myself, the one thing we have
:28:37. > :28:42.tried to do over the last few months, we have had so far two
:28:43. > :28:46.topics tonight, Trump and Clinton and Brexit. We want students to
:28:47. > :28:50.watch this programme and to engage. The last thing we need is throw-away
:28:51. > :28:54.comments like that suggesting schools are filling kids' heads with
:28:55. > :29:10.personal opinions, that is not what is happening. We'll come back to you
:29:11. > :29:14.in a moment. I was a shop steward, I earned my stripes on the shop floor.
:29:15. > :29:16.I always respect the people's vote and my constituency voted much the
:29:17. > :29:20.same as this constituency and they wanted out of Europe. I understand
:29:21. > :29:24.that loud and clear. One of the things we are trying to do though in
:29:25. > :29:29.being optimistic about Britain's future is clarity on what that
:29:30. > :29:34.future is because we know half of our exports go to Europe. We need
:29:35. > :29:39.those exports, we need that access to the single market and we also
:29:40. > :29:42.know that the Government has no plan around controls on immigration, for
:29:43. > :29:48.example, and we know that that was a big concern for people. There is no
:29:49. > :29:53.blueprint, no plan, they've cast us aside, our economy's already on the
:29:54. > :29:55.brink because of this. Universities, we are also losing research places
:29:56. > :29:59.because of what the Government's done.
:30:00. > :30:06.APPLAUSE. Just to get this clear, you accept a
:30:07. > :30:09.majority voted to leave the EU, but you think that they actually want to
:30:10. > :30:21.stay in the single market? People want a decent jobs. You
:30:22. > :30:25.mentioned the single market. Are you saying people who wanted to get out
:30:26. > :30:29.wanted to stay in the single market? Our economy is already suffering as
:30:30. > :30:34.a result, our pound has weakened as a result of that. And Theresa May is
:30:35. > :30:39.dithering all the time on the decisions and there is no clarity
:30:40. > :30:43.about what it means. That is already happening. What will happen is that
:30:44. > :30:46.our public services and our jobs will be the ones that go first. That
:30:47. > :30:50.is what I worry about. APPLAUSE
:30:51. > :31:03.The woman in the third row. I read recently that Deutsche Bank is in a
:31:04. > :31:08.great state of crisis. It holds a large debt, the depths of many
:31:09. > :31:14.nations in the European Union. It is linked directly to the European
:31:15. > :31:17.Central Bank. It is linked to Barclays Bank, to Citibank. It is
:31:18. > :31:26.like a house of cards waiting to fall. The audit for the European
:31:27. > :31:35.Union has not been written off in 20 odd years. And we want to stay in a
:31:36. > :31:38.union which is crumbling already. I just find it absolutely...
:31:39. > :31:48.APPLAUSE The man on the far right. I would
:31:49. > :31:51.like to ask the members of Parliament what part of democracy
:31:52. > :31:58.they don't understand? APPLAUSE
:31:59. > :32:05.Parliament had a ballot, did it not, in order to have the referendum?
:32:06. > :32:09.They voted 6-1 to have the ballot. You took the ballot, took the
:32:10. > :32:13.chance, had the referendum. You did not get the answer you wanted and
:32:14. > :32:20.now you want to turn it round. I did not vote for the last government.
:32:21. > :32:27.Can I have a ballot again? I am not saying, not suggesting we ignore the
:32:28. > :32:32.vote. Yes, you are. As a member of Parliament I have a responsible T
:32:33. > :32:39.for British jobs and workers. APPLAUSE
:32:40. > :32:46.Your job is to represent the public. The people who elect you. Start
:32:47. > :32:48.doing your job. If you don't like it, clear off, simple as that.
:32:49. > :32:58.APPLAUSE 58% of my constituents voted to
:32:59. > :33:04.remain and you want me to tell them to clear off. I don't wish to do
:33:05. > :33:08.that. I tried to represent all my constituents, I'll always have. I
:33:09. > :33:11.tried to use my judgment of what is in the national interest, the
:33:12. > :33:15.interest of my constituents and then I go back and I am accountable for
:33:16. > :33:20.it. If they don't like me, they can throw me out. That is parliamentary
:33:21. > :33:24.democracy. We have introduced referendums. Harold Wilson started
:33:25. > :33:29.it in modern times. But I've lost that argument, and Brexit, I lost
:33:30. > :33:33.that in the referendum. The referendum was one question with 100
:33:34. > :33:38.difficult questions wrapped up in it. The one thing that all the
:33:39. > :33:42.Brexit supporters are agreed on is that we leave the European
:33:43. > :33:47.Parliament, leave the European Council, the political institutions.
:33:48. > :33:51.No one is going to argue with that. Different people who voted Brexit,
:33:52. > :33:56.even different MPs, current ministers, do not agree, did it mean
:33:57. > :34:02.that we cease our open free trading arrangements with Europe, or did it
:34:03. > :34:07.mean we stay in and break political links? You cannot leave free access
:34:08. > :34:12.to a market of 500 million people without making yourself poorer than
:34:13. > :34:16.you otherwise would be. The Americans don't have, the Japanese
:34:17. > :34:18.don't have that access. That's why in the middle of long, difficult
:34:19. > :34:25.negotiations which are about to break down, trying to get a better
:34:26. > :34:32.trade agreement, the US- EU agreement. We pull out, all kinds of
:34:33. > :34:37.difficulties, as Yanis was saying, now have to be negotiated. Given
:34:38. > :34:41.what you say, was the Prime Minister wrong to say that a vote to leave
:34:42. > :34:47.would mean leaving the single market, which was what he said
:34:48. > :34:53.during the campaign? David Cameron said it. He said that, and some of
:34:54. > :34:56.the Brexit supporters did. Others did not. The main are given in the
:34:57. > :34:59.campaign was that it was scaremongering to say that we would
:35:00. > :35:03.in any way be effected in our trading. The main our demand that
:35:04. > :35:10.people like Boris were using was, no, no, they have to sell cars to
:35:11. > :35:12.us, nothing will change. All that trade and business stuff, no, it
:35:13. > :35:19.will be exactly as it was. Now we are saying we are pulling out and it
:35:20. > :35:23.is extremely complicated to work out what you do. Hartlepool needs new
:35:24. > :35:29.investment. Modern jobs. This country is one of the most business
:35:30. > :35:33.friendly places to invest. Plenty of places like Hartlepool have not
:35:34. > :35:38.shared in that. That is why we have a massive protest vote in the
:35:39. > :35:42.referendum. But making it less attractive for investment is much
:35:43. > :35:45.going to do much good for your children, my children, the next
:35:46. > :35:45.generation who want to do well in the modern world.
:35:46. > :35:59.APPLAUSE Mr Clarke, why can't we do through
:36:00. > :36:05.the World Trade Organisation, with the European Union, as all the rest
:36:06. > :36:16.of the world do? It is inferior. Excuse me, that is not inferior.
:36:17. > :36:21.Thanks to Theresa May, she got a promise that she cannot deliver.
:36:22. > :36:27.There is no way that this government can promise protection and
:36:28. > :36:31.compensation without providing the same protection for other companies
:36:32. > :36:36.like Nissan. The British government simply does not have the capacity to
:36:37. > :36:40.do this. So you already see that Theresa May has got herself into a
:36:41. > :36:46.major degree of trouble, simply because you haven't had the chance
:36:47. > :36:49.yet to sit down and have a proper debate in Parliament. And I don't
:36:50. > :36:56.believe this Parliament has a mandate to have this debate. The
:36:57. > :37:00.next one will. What we mean by democracy is a parliamentary process
:37:01. > :37:03.where you run in an election, contest an election on the basis of
:37:04. > :37:07.your proposal about what kind of Brexit you have, and then you have a
:37:08. > :37:16.full parliamentary term to discuss this. In the end, you reach a mature
:37:17. > :37:20.decision. What did you say? We did not vote, we voted for Brexit. The
:37:21. > :37:24.reason it is going to take so long and it is going to be hardest
:37:25. > :37:28.because the likes of Ken Clarke, who has never done a hard days work in
:37:29. > :37:38.his life, needs to roll his up and get on with it. Just hang on a
:37:39. > :37:42.second. Conrad Black, you said you voted Brexit. What do you think the
:37:43. > :37:47.outcome will be? Do you think it will be obfuscated by people like
:37:48. > :37:54.Ken Clarke want to fight every inch of the way against it? No. But I
:37:55. > :37:59.suspect I am in a minority of one in this room in saying this. I think
:38:00. > :38:01.the Europeans will come to their senses and actually, especially
:38:02. > :38:08.under the influence of the German and British governments, and will
:38:09. > :38:13.actually make a serious request of the UK to reconsider and make
:38:14. > :38:19.further concessions. There is a chance that this new Prime Minister
:38:20. > :38:22.would judge, change the game, and would therefore have to be presented
:38:23. > :38:26.not necessarily in a referendum but at least considered by the country.
:38:27. > :38:36.I think the Europeans will come to that view because, two reasons. The
:38:37. > :38:39.objections expressed to Mike were expressed in the referendum and are
:38:40. > :38:46.widely felt in many other European countries. So in that sense, you are
:38:47. > :38:49.a bellwether. It is not Britain against 26 others, and do not
:38:50. > :38:57.imagine it is. Secondly, it would be a terrible loss. It is a big lock
:38:58. > :39:01.button next to Germany, this is the biggest country, and as a moral
:39:02. > :39:05.authority in the world it is the most powerful, morally, of all
:39:06. > :39:10.countries and would be a terrible loss to Europe to use -- to lose
:39:11. > :39:16.Britain. So despite the perversity and the nauseating anti-democratic
:39:17. > :39:20.tendencies of many in charge of Brussels, they are not all
:39:21. > :39:26.completely insane. Even if they have to be muscled heavily by elected
:39:27. > :39:33.governments... You live in a parallel universe where Brussels is
:39:34. > :39:37.rational. We are not leaving Europe, but the European Union. Despite the
:39:38. > :39:40.noises coming out of European leaders that we are going to have a
:39:41. > :39:46.tough time, you think they will actually change their view. I think
:39:47. > :39:49.they will have a stab at it. You really think Europe will let us come
:39:50. > :39:53.back in with no penalties whatsoever? They have already said
:39:54. > :39:57.that if Parliament overturns the ruling they will impose penalties.
:39:58. > :40:02.There will be in vocations if we want to go back in anyhow, so why
:40:03. > :40:10.not just do Article 50 and get out. That is what we voted for. Let's go.
:40:11. > :40:15.There is no way that Europe will come back with open arms. I was not
:40:16. > :40:22.saying how you should respond. They will not come back with open arms. I
:40:23. > :40:33.don't think so. Let's do article 50 now and get out. OK, article 50.
:40:34. > :40:35.Right, we have a lot of hands up. Week by week this is going on, but I
:40:36. > :40:38.think we should take another question.
:40:39. > :40:40.We're in Gloucester next week and Watford the following week.
:40:41. > :40:52.Come and speak your mind, I'll give the details at the end.
:40:53. > :40:59.Let me take a question from Carole Cook, please. Should all child
:41:00. > :41:04.migrants be given age tests before being allowed into the country? A
:41:05. > :41:08.question about the dispute about people coming in from Calais and
:41:09. > :41:11.whether they are really children, and where are the children, and why
:41:12. > :41:16.are there people who seem a great deal older coming in? Yanis
:41:17. > :41:21.Varoufakis. I don't think you should be looking a gift horse in the
:41:22. > :41:28.mouth. I know this is a jarring dissonances and this part of the
:41:29. > :41:32.world, but I have met refugees, I have met migrants. We have the
:41:33. > :41:36.largest number of them in Greece. Indeed, something most people do not
:41:37. > :41:39.know is that in 1991 when the Iron Curtain came down, 1 million
:41:40. > :41:43.refugees came to Greece and they stayed, never left. The result is
:41:44. > :41:43.that we are a stronger and better country.
:41:44. > :41:55.APPLAUSE On this issue, allow me to make a
:41:56. > :42:00.couple of points. Firstly, those kids, whether they are kids or young
:42:01. > :42:10.adults, even if they are 25, even if they are 30, even if they are 40...
:42:11. > :42:14.What are you complaining about? That they are 70, whatever, that they are
:42:15. > :42:18.old-age pension -- old-age pensioners seeking somewhere to
:42:19. > :42:22.retire! The simple proposition I put to you is this. Treat these people
:42:23. > :42:27.with respect as they are coming into your country. Treat their trauma,
:42:28. > :42:35.treat them as human beings and they will love you for ever and they will
:42:36. > :42:36.become responsible, responsive supporters of the United Kingdom.
:42:37. > :42:46.APPLAUSE It is absolutely the right thing to
:42:47. > :42:51.do to help the children that need help, that are sat in their camps in
:42:52. > :42:58.Calais. Whereas treating their parents as if they are rascals and
:42:59. > :43:01.should be despised, right? That is such hypocrisy. You care about the
:43:02. > :43:03.children and demonise the parents and older brothers and uncles?
:43:04. > :43:10.APPLAUSE We have seen young adults coming
:43:11. > :43:15.into our country and we are being told they are children. I have six
:43:16. > :43:19.children, a 26-year-old and a 13-year-old. I know which is going
:43:20. > :43:24.to work and which is going to school. You can tell who is an adult
:43:25. > :43:28.and who is a child. Where are the young children, the girls, the
:43:29. > :43:33.teenagers? We need to get them with their families if they have families
:43:34. > :43:37.here. There are foster families that will take in these children and love
:43:38. > :43:41.and care for them. They will build a rapport, they will stay with our
:43:42. > :43:45.country. The young adults, the men, they will stay in the country
:43:46. > :43:49.because they will now start claiming asylum. But for every adult that
:43:50. > :43:53.comes into the country there is a vulnerable child still in that
:43:54. > :44:03.Calais Campbell. And that concerns me greatly. Ken Clarke. Well, in
:44:04. > :44:07.every advanced country, every successful city in the world, all of
:44:08. > :44:11.those that are leading the current world economy, in my lifetime I have
:44:12. > :44:16.seen the emergence of a multinational, multiethnic,
:44:17. > :44:20.multicultural society. I saw my first black face when I was about
:44:21. > :44:25.ten years old and was rather puzzled to see somebody with a different
:44:26. > :44:30.complexion. Now, unlike some people, I don't get upset if I hear people
:44:31. > :44:34.speaking a foreign language I don't understand on the bus. And in my
:44:35. > :44:36.working life, half the time I am meeting people who were born in
:44:37. > :44:42.another country, or their parents were. And I think society in this
:44:43. > :44:47.country today is much better than it was. I also think we have benefited
:44:48. > :44:50.from the change. As long as we control it properly, let him honest
:44:51. > :44:56.people who contribute to our economy and live here properly. We have two
:44:57. > :44:59.control the numbers. I don't want to lose our reputation as the most
:45:00. > :45:02.tolerant country in the world. We are getting a reputation for
:45:03. > :45:07.disliking foreigners outside our boundaries. The idea that we would
:45:08. > :45:15.scrutinise the teeth of a few hundred young boys in Calais, in the
:45:16. > :45:20.hope that we can find one who is just over 18, so we can keep a few
:45:21. > :45:25.more of them out, strikes me as a fairly ridiculous and actually quite
:45:26. > :45:27.unpleasant suggestion. No doubt Mr Trump will try it on the Mexican
:45:28. > :45:34.border. APPLAUSE
:45:35. > :45:41.You, Sir, at the very back? There is a bigger picture here. The problem
:45:42. > :45:44.is the EU don't allow us to know who's got criminal records that are
:45:45. > :45:48.coming in from the EU and what we are finding is that prisons are
:45:49. > :45:53.filling up with foreigners. We need to protect our own people. Yes, we
:45:54. > :45:59.can take genuine child refugees, but we need to protect UK citizens at
:46:00. > :46:04.the same time. The person on your right? This is nothing to do with
:46:05. > :46:09.the EU, this is about people coming from Syria and the idea that Lisa
:46:10. > :46:12.said you can separate the kids from the adults, if people are coming
:46:13. > :46:16.from Syria, you don't want the kids, you want families to come, you don't
:46:17. > :46:23.want to separate people. APPLAUSE.
:46:24. > :46:28.I think we have to put it into context. Save the Children estimate
:46:29. > :46:32.around 200 children that have got family connections here that would
:46:33. > :46:37.be coming from the Calais camps. At the moment, 14 have come to the UK,
:46:38. > :46:42.14. The Government have been incredibly slow on this matter.
:46:43. > :46:47.Those children are at risk of sexual exploitation, abuse and they're
:46:48. > :46:51.living in squalor. We have always had a proud tradition to call
:46:52. > :46:55.ourselves a decent society, we always look after them and we
:46:56. > :47:02.already have, coming back to Carole's question, we already have
:47:03. > :47:04.age tests. The issue of X-raying children's teeth, it wouldn't work.
:47:05. > :47:09.The experts say it wouldn't work. That's not a way of doing it. Do you
:47:10. > :47:13.know what, are we going to treat kids like livestock? I've got a
:47:14. > :47:16.19-year-old son, he's still my baby, he's 19 but he's still my baby and I
:47:17. > :47:17.don't think we should treat human beings that way.
:47:18. > :47:32.APPLAUSE. Jack Straw said he'd certainly not
:47:33. > :47:36.rule out dental checks, he was once the Home Secretary.
:47:37. > :47:42.ALL SPEAK AT ONCE. Conrad Black? I think everybody in
:47:43. > :47:45.the room agrees that all countries need immigration and benefit from
:47:46. > :47:50.immigration. I think everybody in the room would agree that these are
:47:51. > :47:54.terribly tragic humanitarian problems that have arisen and we all
:47:55. > :48:06.want to be as generous as we practically can be.
:48:07. > :48:11.Yanis makes a very good point, Greece has borne the brunt. Kenneth
:48:12. > :48:17.is surely right, we want the immigration, we want to be generous,
:48:18. > :48:23.but we have to control the numbers and when I say we, I mean all
:48:24. > :48:34.countries. Your ending comment was a gratuitous comment. We'll let people
:48:35. > :48:40.in legally. That's reasonable. One more point? The woman behind
:48:41. > :48:44.you, Sir, yes? It's fair enough to say that we want to limit
:48:45. > :48:48.immigration and while actually I'm one of the immigrants that is no
:48:49. > :48:52.longer welcome here, I'm Polish, I've been here 23 years, never been
:48:53. > :48:57.discrepe negotiated against until Brexit came about. My question is to
:48:58. > :49:02.Conrad. Before you go on, in what way do you feel discriminated
:49:03. > :49:06.against? I feel I'm no longer wanted by #5 52% of the voters because the
:49:07. > :49:12.majority of the people that voted... Can I just finish, please. You can
:49:13. > :49:16.come and boo me in a minute. 52% of the voters voted against
:49:17. > :49:20.immigration. Polish is the second most popular language in this
:49:21. > :49:23.country. We don't want to stop immigration, we want to control it.
:49:24. > :49:28.Therefore the majority of the people... That's the difference The
:49:29. > :49:33.majority voted against the Pole who is work extremely hard. People work
:49:34. > :49:37.for 12 hours seven days a week, they work in such conditions that most of
:49:38. > :49:41.the people would not want to work and yet they are the ones that the
:49:42. > :49:45.British population wants to get out. I married a British person, I've got
:49:46. > :49:48.British children. I love the British society but, at the moment I don't
:49:49. > :49:52.feel welcomed. Thank you.
:49:53. > :49:58.APPLAUSE. All right. We'll come back to you,
:49:59. > :50:04.Lisa, because we have a question from Timothy Fleming. Our newest
:50:05. > :50:12.councillor, congratulations. Name sake. Well done, you. Timothy
:50:13. > :50:17.Fleming - dentist! What is left for Ukip after Brexit? Are recent
:50:18. > :50:22.events, the death throes of a party without a purpose? In other words,
:50:23. > :50:28.you won what you wanted at the referendum. Lisa Duffy, are you in
:50:29. > :50:33.your death throes? Absolutely not. Ukip are more relevant than ever. We
:50:34. > :50:36.have, at the moment, won the referendum, we haven't actually got
:50:37. > :50:39.Brexit as we heard here this evening. So we have got a huge
:50:40. > :50:42.amount of work to do as a political party to keep that pressure sure on.
:50:43. > :50:46.But also, we are going into a second phase of our political party. That
:50:47. > :50:52.is getting more councillors elected. We are at the official opposition
:50:53. > :50:56.here which is absolutely amazing and well done to those councillors. But
:50:57. > :51:00.also, we have a fully costed manifesto that couldn't be argued
:51:01. > :51:04.with in 2015. It's about building on that and now going and selling that
:51:05. > :51:09.to the electorate and getting ourselves fit for purpose. Why have
:51:10. > :51:23.you fallen so badly in the poles since the referendum? It depends how
:51:24. > :51:30.you look at it. What is your best? 47.9%. Labour watch out because we
:51:31. > :51:34.only needed a small percentage rate. APPLAUSE.
:51:35. > :51:38.We are going through some change at the top of the party at the moment,
:51:39. > :51:42.highly embarrassing at some points and really strong in others. By
:51:43. > :51:46.November 28th, we'll have a very strong NEC, a new party leader and
:51:47. > :51:50.we'll really be pushing on and selling ourselves to the electorate.
:51:51. > :51:54.Are you running for that job? I've made some serious considerations but
:51:55. > :51:58.I think other people are going to come on board, such as Paul Nuttall
:51:59. > :52:02.and Suzanne Evans so I should leave it to them and I'll focus on my
:52:03. > :52:05.community and celebrate 50 years of Christmas lights and getting those
:52:06. > :52:09.lights up this year. Ken Clarke, do you think we are watching the death
:52:10. > :52:14.throes of Ukip? It's going to have to change, obviously. It's coming
:52:15. > :52:20.over to you, Steven Waffle wanting to join the Tories? Some will come
:52:21. > :52:23.back to us. Will you welcome them? Depends on their views. The
:52:24. > :52:27.referendum result was a triumph for Nigel Farage. I can't remember a
:52:28. > :52:31.politician who's taken up a single issue cause and won it. He was
:52:32. > :52:36.personally almost responsible with the help of his party and he was the
:52:37. > :52:39.first man who had the bright idea of getting more votes for leaving the
:52:40. > :52:43.European Union by blaming the European Union for immigration and
:52:44. > :52:48.rousing fears about foreigners and all the rest of it. People like
:52:49. > :52:52.Boris and Michael really gave him respectability at the end. Nigel's
:52:53. > :52:55.been respectful for the past 23 years. They can't carry on because
:52:56. > :53:01.they won the referendum. They have got to find a cause and Ukip aren't
:53:02. > :53:03.good at giving detail when you get to difficult issues, starting with
:53:04. > :53:08.trade, environment and security and so on. Have a read of our 2015
:53:09. > :53:12.manifesto. Sounds as though in Hartlepool, they have also found
:53:13. > :53:20.what's happened in every other western democracy still the vehicle
:53:21. > :53:23.for just angry protest, a feeling in towns...
:53:24. > :53:28.APPLAUSE. I personally would like to find some
:53:29. > :53:32.way of getting responding to that angry protest, but getting it
:53:33. > :53:36.channelled into political outlets which are more attractive than Ukip
:53:37. > :53:39.is I think. I very much hope it never becomes a formidable force in
:53:40. > :53:44.British politics. I think we already are. Look at what we've achieved so
:53:45. > :53:48.far without a huge amount of MPs. Think what we'll be like when we
:53:49. > :53:53.have a huge amounts of MPs in 2020. The woman there? I found you cape
:53:54. > :53:53.poisonous force in Hartlepool in recent years.
:53:54. > :54:06.APPLAUSE. Poisonous force? Yes, I'm a
:54:07. > :54:11.secondary schoolteacher and some of the incidents - it links back to
:54:12. > :54:15.what the lady said on the last point there, that to me Ukip have almost
:54:16. > :54:19.given the licence to people for views that would have been regarded
:54:20. > :54:22.as disgraceful if the past are suddenly OK to voice some of these
:54:23. > :54:31.opinions about, get out of our country. I don't believe that. I'm
:54:32. > :54:35.seeing a lot of that. I am. It's unfair to say - this is not
:54:36. > :54:42.something I would share my personal opinions. The gentleman earlier said
:54:43. > :54:46.that. The Ukip influence has inblamed it. The way we spoke about
:54:47. > :54:55.Trump earlier. He's given licence to people to do the ludicrous things.
:54:56. > :55:03.We have got to keep moving because we are almost at the end. Angela
:55:04. > :55:08.Rayner? What upsets me is when you have two women in the audience when
:55:09. > :55:12.they said they feel intimidated and that it's been toxic that they have
:55:13. > :55:15.been booed and hissed because of it. It's damaging to our country the way
:55:16. > :55:20.they try to divide us. They have no answers to the real questions. They
:55:21. > :55:27.wanted to privatise the National Health Service. We do not want to
:55:28. > :55:31.privatise the NHS, read the manifesto. It is my turn to speak.
:55:32. > :55:35.It is but get your facts right, we don't want to privatise the NHS.
:55:36. > :55:39.Also your time is very nearly up, so... I think there is some real
:55:40. > :55:43.concerns we need to take heed of people's anger and start investing
:55:44. > :55:46.in our communities because people feel fed up that politicians have
:55:47. > :55:53.all been the same and I intend to do that. We don't need Ukip. The
:55:54. > :55:58.country needs Ukip. Looking at the situation from the outside as I do,
:55:59. > :56:21.I'm amazed by the forces of Theresa May and all the other Remainers who
:56:22. > :56:24.suddenly became Brexiters. People must wonder wonder can they trust
:56:25. > :56:31.people. To answer your question, I think that Lee Sarks you have a very
:56:32. > :56:39.difficult task ahead because Theresa May, she's now turned the Tory party
:56:40. > :56:46.into Ukip and Ukip doesn't have to win any elections -- Lisa. This
:56:47. > :56:49.Brexiteer mindset has infiltrated the Ukip party at the detriment of
:56:50. > :56:57.people like Ken Clarke. Conrad Black? I think the Conservative
:56:58. > :57:03.Party should make an unrefusable offer to Ukip to join, as parties
:57:04. > :57:08.did in a different context a long time ago. It was the Conservative
:57:09. > :57:13.Unionist Party. On the matter of democracy that has been banded about
:57:14. > :57:18.from different angles, Britain and the United States are democracies
:57:19. > :57:22.and in a democracy ultimately the people are always right, the
:57:23. > :57:26.question is are we the best candidates the Americans can get.
:57:27. > :57:30.There were 14 candidates for the Republican nomination and remember
:57:31. > :57:38.this, Donald, whatever everyone thinks of him, he kept Ted Kroos
:57:39. > :57:43.out, he kept those at the shooting ranges out of the control of the
:57:44. > :57:45.party of Lincoln and Roosevelt and Eisenhower and Reagan. He did do
:57:46. > :57:50.that. Hands up but our time is up. We're in Gloucester next week
:57:51. > :57:53.with the film director Ken Loach The following week
:57:54. > :57:58.we'll be in Watford. Come and join us in Gloucester
:57:59. > :58:01.or Watford, go to our website, If you are listening tonight
:58:02. > :58:07.on Radio 5Live, the debate goes My thanks to the panelists and the
:58:08. > :58:19.audience. From Hartlepool, until next week,
:58:20. > :58:29.Goodnight.