:00:00. > :00:15.Tonight we're in Wallasey on Merseyside.
:00:16. > :00:19.The former coalminer, now Conservative Party Chairman,
:00:20. > :00:24.The Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who nominated
:00:25. > :00:29.Jeremy Corbyn for leader in 2015, Rebecca Long Bailey.
:00:30. > :00:35.Founder of the counter-extremism campaign Quilliam, Maajid Nawaz.
:00:36. > :00:38.Lord Sugar's adviser on The Apprentice for a decade
:00:39. > :00:41.and now host of Countdown, Nick Hewer.
:00:42. > :00:43.And the co-editor of the website The Conservative
:00:44. > :01:01.As ever, you can join the debate on Facebook,
:01:02. > :01:22.You can push the red button and see what else is being said. Our first
:01:23. > :01:26.question from Christian Coventry. Should Trump's state visit to the UK
:01:27. > :01:33.be blocked in light of his immigration ban? Patrick McLoughlin?
:01:34. > :01:39.No. We disagree with the executive order he issued last week, but he is
:01:40. > :01:42.President of the United States. The United States is the most important
:01:43. > :01:47.trading country for us and I think it would be wrong to withdraw the
:01:48. > :01:59.invite after it has been extended to him. Rebecca Long Bailey. History
:02:00. > :02:03.will judge us by our actions on this and we are right to foster the
:02:04. > :02:06.special so-called special relationship with America. They are
:02:07. > :02:10.our best friend, but do you know what best friends do? They tell each
:02:11. > :02:15.other the truth in a respectful way, and that is what we should have done
:02:16. > :02:15.this week. We weren't enough off the mark.
:02:16. > :02:21.APPLAUSE What would you have the Prime
:02:22. > :02:28.Minister do? Say, remember that invitation, it
:02:29. > :02:32.doesn't count any more? It is inappropriate to condone Donald
:02:33. > :02:36.Trump's values. The Muslim ban he put forward was divisive and
:02:37. > :02:40.completely irrational. It was done on Holocaust Memorial Day of all
:02:41. > :02:45.days. One quote has haunted me since last week in light of what has
:02:46. > :02:48.happened. It is a quote from Primo Levy, it Holocaust survivor. He said
:02:49. > :02:53.that monsters exist but they are too few in number to be truly dangerous.
:02:54. > :02:57.More dangerous are the common men, the functionaries who are ready to
:02:58. > :03:03.believe an actor without asking questions. Now was the time we
:03:04. > :03:12.needed to ask questions. Laura Perrins. Of course the invite should
:03:13. > :03:18.not be withdrawn. President Trump has not done anything wrong. What
:03:19. > :03:22.his first moral and constitutional duty is is to protect the citizens
:03:23. > :03:27.of the United States. That is what this measure does. It is not
:03:28. > :03:34.anti-Muslim, it is anti-terrorist. Seven states, a list that President
:03:35. > :03:38.Obama had already brought up. I have a really serious moral issue with
:03:39. > :03:43.this measure being compared to the Holocaust, and I think it is
:03:44. > :03:48.important to draw the distinction. The Holocaust was state agencies
:03:49. > :03:54.acting against their own citizens, rounding up their own citizens and
:03:55. > :03:58.liquidise in them, men, women and children. What the President of the
:03:59. > :04:02.United States is doing is protecting his own citizens by saying to
:04:03. > :04:07.foreign citizens, first of all, you don't have a right to come here, and
:04:08. > :04:11.secondly, I am not happy with the vetting procedure that is in place,
:04:12. > :04:18.so we will pause any bees you have for 90 days, in order to protect all
:04:19. > :04:21.of the United States citizens, including the 3 million Muslims
:04:22. > :04:25.there. I think what Labour are doing is essentially standing on the
:04:26. > :04:26.graves of 7 million Jewish deaths to make a political point.
:04:27. > :04:39.APPLAUSE I will come to you.
:04:40. > :04:43.My question is for Laura. I am an Iraqi who lived in the United
:04:44. > :04:49.Kingdom for 15 years. The Kurdish people have been placed around the
:04:50. > :04:52.world, and have been the most effective force fighting Isis. The
:04:53. > :04:57.Kurdish people carry Iraqi passports. The ban affects the
:04:58. > :05:01.Kurdish people that Donald Trump said are the most effective force
:05:02. > :05:08.fighting Isis. How did you feel about the ban when it was announced?
:05:09. > :05:10.In my opinion, Donald Trump, as President of the United States, is
:05:11. > :05:18.allowed to do whatever decision he does. But he cannot say, you are at
:05:19. > :05:22.the front of fighting Isis, the most effective nation fighting terrorism
:05:23. > :05:27.one minute, and the next minute say, you are in the same box with them,
:05:28. > :05:30.categorised the same as them. APPLAUSE
:05:31. > :05:36.Do you think he should come on a state visit to Britain as a guest of
:05:37. > :05:44.the Queen? I don't think so. In the third row.
:05:45. > :05:48.People who want to come to America have to get a Visa. That means they
:05:49. > :05:54.are a temporary citizen of the country. If he is invoking the right
:05:55. > :06:02.of these temporary citizens, how can that be right? So what is your view
:06:03. > :06:07.about the state visit? He should not come, he has been divisive and
:06:08. > :06:14.institutionally racist. Nick Hewer. There are two parts. The invitation
:06:15. > :06:17.and the ban. Theresa May rushed off to Washington, first, special
:06:18. > :06:20.relationship, let's invite him, let's capture his heart, make sure
:06:21. > :06:27.that we have this great relationship. Donald Trump is a
:06:28. > :06:31.shark. He doesn't know what he did yesterday, he is not altogether sure
:06:32. > :06:37.what he is doing today. He is eating for the day. If she thinks that she
:06:38. > :06:42.has a deal, she is sorely mistaken. Regarding the ban, I don't know how
:06:43. > :06:46.many people read Patrick Cockburn's piece, a great journalist,
:06:47. > :06:52.recognised as an authority on this. He said that Trump has turned
:06:53. > :06:58.himself into the greatest recruiting Sergeant for Isis and Al-Qaeda.
:06:59. > :07:06.Because what he has done, with that long winded signature of his, is to
:07:07. > :07:09.turn every Muslim in the world and place them where they stand in the
:07:10. > :07:13.eyes of the greatest nation in the world. They think less of the United
:07:14. > :07:25.States now, and that in inexorable elites to recruit joining, rather
:07:26. > :07:30.than fighting Isis. That is my view. There are two parts, I agree with
:07:31. > :07:36.Nick. I agree with Nick, says a Lib Dem. There are two parts, the ban
:07:37. > :07:39.and the state visit. First, it is important to acknowledge the fact of
:07:40. > :07:44.the aftermath of what has happened in Quebec. Six worshippers were
:07:45. > :07:47.killed in a mosque, a couple of days after completely irresponsible
:07:48. > :07:50.noises were made by the President of the most powerful country in the
:07:51. > :08:01.world. Those six are real human beings. They were human beings,
:08:02. > :08:07.killed while performing an act of worship by far right supremacist who
:08:08. > :08:11.decided, being a fan of this sort of rhetoric, that these sorts of
:08:12. > :08:15.people, two of them immigrants to Canada, need to be eliminated off
:08:16. > :08:20.the face of the earth. Consequences of language are very real. Trump
:08:21. > :08:24.does not call it a Muslim ban, but all of his rhetoric, up until the
:08:25. > :08:30.election itself, was using the words, we are going to stop Muslims
:08:31. > :08:33.coming into this country. And the executive order itself excludes
:08:34. > :08:37.Christians. So you would forgive people be using words like a Muslim
:08:38. > :08:42.ban, even though it is not technically correct. Let's also not
:08:43. > :08:48.dance on the grave of those six on a technicality by saying it is not a
:08:49. > :08:52.Muslim ban. Let Laura speak. You seem to know a lot about a crime
:08:53. > :08:58.that was just committed. It is horrific, but you have no evidence
:08:59. > :09:05.to say what you have just said. About what? The terrible crime in
:09:06. > :09:10.Quebec. What part is wrong? Let me finish. I think she is saying that
:09:11. > :09:16.the cause being what Donald Trump did is not proven. You have said
:09:17. > :09:21.that that there is no evidence. There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the
:09:22. > :09:29.world. This affects seven countries. Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya and
:09:30. > :09:32.Yemen. They were designated by a Obama as terrorist enclaves. The
:09:33. > :09:37.President has a constitutional and moral right to protect US citizens
:09:38. > :09:42.from the real terrorist threat coming from those countries. To say
:09:43. > :09:50.otherwise is merely grandstanding, and saying things you have no
:09:51. > :09:53.evidence for at all. Obama noted those countries on a specific threat
:09:54. > :10:01.at that time. None of the national is from those countries have ever
:10:02. > :10:05.cost any lives. Yes, they have. Excuse me, Mohammed Atta and his
:10:06. > :10:07.pals were Egyptian and Saudis but they are not on the list.
:10:08. > :10:17.APPLAUSE Finish your point and I will come
:10:18. > :10:21.back to you. Perhaps we should be on the list,
:10:22. > :10:26.because Robert Reid was crossing the Atlantic, trying to explode his shoe
:10:27. > :10:32.and take the aircraft down. Britain is not an unstable country. All of
:10:33. > :10:36.those seven, other than Iran, our war-torn countries. Britain is a
:10:37. > :10:39.stable country. The fact that Britain and all the European Muslims
:10:40. > :10:44.are not included, and the vast majority of the world's Muslims are
:10:45. > :10:49.not included goes to show how wrong it is to say it is a muslin ban. It
:10:50. > :10:53.is an anti-terrorist ban and something needs to be done about
:10:54. > :10:58.Isis. They are a barbaric organisation and there is no way
:10:59. > :11:05.they should be allowed... I am probably the only one on this panel
:11:06. > :11:09.who works every single day... I am probably the only one on this panel
:11:10. > :11:13.who has full-time, every day, trying to do something about Isis. The
:11:14. > :11:17.seven countries named have not been responsible for any home-grown
:11:18. > :11:22.attack across Europe. Can I actually finished the point I was going to
:11:23. > :11:30.make? I think everybody has heard a good deal from you two. I would like
:11:31. > :11:34.to hear their comments. While I agree with all that has been said
:11:35. > :11:39.about Donald Trump, the invitation has been issued by Her Majesty The
:11:40. > :11:43.Queen. Surely we have to go along with her invitation and access Mr
:11:44. > :11:44.Trump and welcome him, even though we don't agree with it?
:11:45. > :11:52.APPLAUSE And you, in the middle.
:11:53. > :11:57.You mention the fact that maybe we should be on the ban. I am on it,
:11:58. > :12:06.because as well as those seven countries that you have quoted, add
:12:07. > :12:12.another nine onto that. They ban any person who has a Jewish passport.
:12:13. > :12:16.Because I actually have a Jewish stamp and I went to Israel. I am not
:12:17. > :12:19.allowed to go to at least eight of those countries you have named, so
:12:20. > :12:30.the ban already exists for other people. So have we got any right to
:12:31. > :12:34.be lecturing others? It is clearly racist and I agree
:12:35. > :12:37.with the panellist who says this encouraged the attack on the
:12:38. > :12:42.innocent worshippers in the mosque in Canada. A lot of respectable
:12:43. > :12:45.politicians like Trump and some closer to home have blood on their
:12:46. > :12:49.hands when they make statements which stir people up and appear to
:12:50. > :12:54.give them permission to attack Muslims and immigrants. I think it
:12:55. > :12:58.is a disgrace. If Trump does come here, I can guarantee there will be
:12:59. > :13:01.such a turnout to let him know he is not welcome. It will be the biggest
:13:02. > :13:02.demonstration we have seen for years.
:13:03. > :13:10.APPLAUSE What is your comment on what the
:13:11. > :13:14.former head of the Foreign Office said, that ministers, you are in the
:13:15. > :13:18.Cabinet, have put the Queen in a very difficult position by inviting
:13:19. > :13:26.Trump here at this time and with such alacrity?
:13:27. > :13:31.You are talking about Lord Ricketts. Look, Donald Trump is President of
:13:32. > :13:36.the United States. It is the start of his presidential time in office.
:13:37. > :13:40.He has just been elected. Nick just said the United States is one of the
:13:41. > :13:45.greatest countries in the world. It is essential that we have a good
:13:46. > :13:49.relationship. And by having that relationship, the Prime Minister was
:13:50. > :13:52.able to instruct both the Foreign Secretary and the Home Secretary to
:13:53. > :13:57.ensure that the ban did not apply to anybody with a British passport. So
:13:58. > :14:01.we did have influence, we will have influence. It is no good everybody
:14:02. > :14:06.throwing up their hands and somehow saying the American people have got
:14:07. > :14:09.it wrong. The American people elected President Trump and we have
:14:10. > :14:15.two respective as a head of state or a very important country and we have
:14:16. > :14:18.to work with him. I remember not dissimilar kinds of thinking when
:14:19. > :14:22.Ronald Reagan first became President of the United States, the horror and
:14:23. > :14:29.shock that was being exposed by many people. He turned out to be one of
:14:30. > :14:34.America's greatest presidents. You are predicting that for Donald
:14:35. > :14:43.Trump? I am not predicting anything. He has been President for less than
:14:44. > :14:47.ten days. You have been counting. Ten days, 240 hours. We must move
:14:48. > :14:55.on. We're in Torquay next
:14:56. > :15:10.week, and the week after Dean Marshall, please, your
:15:11. > :15:14.question? Should the 114 MPs who voted against the Brexit Bill look
:15:15. > :15:20.for new jobs? Should those who voted against the
:15:21. > :15:25.implementation of Article 50 yesterday be looking for new jobs on
:15:26. > :15:28.the grounds presumably your view is that they defied the will of the
:15:29. > :15:34.British people in the referendum. Rebecca? I think those MPs in many
:15:35. > :15:38.cases have made agonising decisions, especially if they were in remain
:15:39. > :15:42.seats. Ultimately my view is that I believe in democracy, I didn't
:15:43. > :15:46.campaign to leave the EU, I campaigned to remain but I respect
:15:47. > :15:49.the will of the people. We had a democratic referendum and we need to
:15:50. > :15:54.respect that referendum. That is why I voted to trigger Article 50
:15:55. > :15:58.yesterday. We have to realise that this issue didn't just divide
:15:59. > :16:03.parties and it didn't divide the Houses of Parliament, it divided
:16:04. > :16:07.families and, now is the time, as politicians, whichever party we are
:16:08. > :16:10.in, our job now is to unify the country and demand the best deal we
:16:11. > :16:14.can possibly get that's in the interests of the people, not in the
:16:15. > :16:17.interests of the wealthy elite because we have already seen
:16:18. > :16:22.murmurings from Philip Hammond that he's threatening to turn us into a
:16:23. > :16:25.tax haven. We want a deal that benefits communities like Wallasey
:16:26. > :16:28.and like my community in Salford and Eccles that has been starved of
:16:29. > :16:36.investment for decades. APPLAUSE.
:16:37. > :16:40.What about the question though which is whether people should be looking
:16:41. > :16:44.for new jobs by failing to - a lot was said in the House of Commons
:16:45. > :16:47.about that from Ken Clarke on the Tory side for instance - they all
:16:48. > :16:52.voted in favour because that was what the country decided in a
:16:53. > :16:58.referendum where everybody was entitled to vote? In terms of
:16:59. > :17:00.looking for new jobs, I think people made an agonising choice, they had
:17:01. > :17:05.to vote in their heart and in line with what their constituency wanted
:17:06. > :17:08.them to do, but the party position certainly the Labour Party position
:17:09. > :17:13.was to uphold the democratic will of the people. OK. Now we'll take an
:17:14. > :17:16.empathetic approach and an understandable approach to the MPs
:17:17. > :17:20.that have voted against the party whip because they were put in
:17:21. > :17:24.difficult positions. But I think there's a lot of discussions going
:17:25. > :17:28.to be taking place over the next few weeks and we have heard the tip of
:17:29. > :17:31.the iceberg when it comes to the agonising decisions that many people
:17:32. > :17:35.will have to make considering Brexit.
:17:36. > :17:39.Laura? I would separate your question out slightly. Anybody whose
:17:40. > :17:44.constituency voted to leave and they voted against it should certainly
:17:45. > :17:48.resign because they're antidemocratic and not serving their
:17:49. > :17:53.own constituencies and defying the will of the people. Also anybody who
:17:54. > :17:59.had a migraine or passed in a sicky note, they should deft nitly resign.
:18:00. > :18:09.APPLAUSE. -- definitely resign.
:18:10. > :18:13.Nick? I cried myself to sleep when Sunderland fell, I woke up with a
:18:14. > :18:16.sodden pillow because I was an absolute remainor. The truth is,
:18:17. > :18:21.there was a referendum and the remainers lost. That's democracy,
:18:22. > :18:25.sometimes it hurts and feels like a punch on the jaw but you've just got
:18:26. > :18:29.to live with it. Therefore I would absolutely agree with Rebecca
:18:30. > :18:35.because, you know, we've got to shut up and we've all got to pull
:18:36. > :18:40.together. I think Corbyn, and I'm not a fan, to be quite honest with
:18:41. > :18:43.you, was right to put three line whip on his members and those that
:18:44. > :18:50.decided to object whether they should look for another job or not
:18:51. > :18:53.is up to them. But actually, when the people vote, go into a corner
:18:54. > :19:00.and have a cry, then pull yourself together and go with the vote.
:19:01. > :19:09.APPLAUSE. You, Sir? I think we should bear in
:19:10. > :19:12.mind that MPs are not mandated, they're representatives, so
:19:13. > :19:16.therefore they should act in the way that they best believe represents
:19:17. > :19:21.the interests of their constituents. That will be different depending on
:19:22. > :19:27.the constituency they represent. But, I think they've got to follow
:19:28. > :19:30.their conscience. But if they follow their conscience, surely on the
:19:31. > :19:34.basis of what we know about the position of the House of Commons
:19:35. > :19:38.before the referendum, they'd have voted against Article 50? But
:19:39. > :19:44.they've obviously taken into account the result of the referendum and
:19:45. > :19:48.they've made a calculation based on what they feel is right in those
:19:49. > :19:51.circumstances. Well some have and some haven't because some have
:19:52. > :19:55.switched and some haven't. It depends on the person. I wouldn't
:19:56. > :20:02.want to put myself in their mind. If I was an MP I would have voted
:20:03. > :20:09.against. Patrick McLoughlin was a remainor, argued for remain didn't
:20:10. > :20:12.you? Yes. How did you square your conscience with voting with the
:20:13. > :20:15.Prime Minister, was that a difficult decision for you? It was
:20:16. > :20:18.straightforward because I voted for a referendum. I voted for a
:20:19. > :20:21.referendum and I accepted the result of the referendum and my
:20:22. > :20:26.constituency almost followed the nation, it was 52 to leave and 48 to
:20:27. > :20:31.stay in, so I followed what my constituents wanted. As far as MPs
:20:32. > :20:34.looking for another job, a number of them are. There's already two
:20:35. > :20:42.by-elections of people deserting the Labour Party. They can't get out
:20:43. > :20:46.quick enough. So That's taking place in Stoke-on-Trent and Copeland. If
:20:47. > :20:49.they actually voted for the referendum, then they are duty bound
:20:50. > :20:53.to accept the result of the referendum and the vote for the
:20:54. > :20:57.referendum was overwhelmingly in favour of it.
:20:58. > :21:00.The woman up there on the left? You must be having a laugh asking me to
:21:01. > :21:06.just kind of sit in a corner and cry and make do with this decision. I'm
:21:07. > :21:09.a European citizen. Neither did I vote for this idiotic advisory
:21:10. > :21:13.referendum that has turned my life up side down. I have an English
:21:14. > :21:17.husband, I have a German English child and can now see what I do with
:21:18. > :21:22.this and how I reconcile the shaking up to my identity that this
:21:23. > :21:28.referendum's caused, a referendum that has been campaigned on lies on
:21:29. > :21:31.exaggeration, do not listen to the experts and...
:21:32. > :21:34.APPLAUSE. And now you are calling it the will
:21:35. > :21:39.of the people. This was not the will of the people. This was such a
:21:40. > :21:42.complex situation that should never, never have been decided like this,
:21:43. > :21:47.ever. . APPLAUSE.
:21:48. > :21:51.So you think the 17.5 million were deluded? I think anyone who thinks
:21:52. > :21:55.that England will walk away from this divorce from the EU with a
:21:56. > :21:56.better deal than they have right now is delusional, absolutely.
:21:57. > :22:05.Absolutely. OK.
:22:06. > :22:10.Jeremy Corbyn, between 1997 and 2007, he rebelled the most against
:22:11. > :22:14.this. This is a deep sense of irony what is happening now with the
:22:15. > :22:18.frontbenchers rebelling against him. I don't think they should lose their
:22:19. > :22:21.jobs, perhaps they should find a new political party frankly because
:22:22. > :22:25.under Corbyn's leadership, I think there is a new schism, a new way of
:22:26. > :22:29.dividing British politics around the remain and leave debate. Many of the
:22:30. > :22:33.so-called moderate Labour MPs are not Labour any more. Labour is now a
:22:34. > :22:43.left-wing party which it rightly should be and the Tories are where
:22:44. > :22:51.they are on Brexit. I think those MPs who aren't happy under his
:22:52. > :22:56.leadership should go. They need to start articulating a vision in a
:22:57. > :23:04.post-Brexit Britain and it's un-Nat that we are still talking about the
:23:05. > :23:15.past -- unfortunate. Conducting a Parliamentary debate without a white
:23:16. > :23:20.paper not betraying the will of the people? Why do you think it's
:23:21. > :23:24.betraying them? I feel like it's unrepresentative that these people
:23:25. > :23:27.are voting on an issue that they've not been informed by certain Select
:23:28. > :23:31.Committees. There's not been a certain amount of scrutiny on this
:23:32. > :23:36.current situation and it's been rushed through Parliament to meet
:23:37. > :23:37.this arbitrary March deadline which personally I don't believe is
:23:38. > :23:42.correct. Rebecca? We got that white paper
:23:43. > :23:47.today and quite frankly it wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
:23:48. > :23:54.It was very vague, it was very ambiguous, it didn't tell us much
:23:55. > :23:59.more than we knew already. It set out Theresa May's 12 ambiguous
:24:00. > :24:03.points. There was a factual point, a bar graph, chart within the paper,
:24:04. > :24:08.that stated that UK workers were going to get 14 weeks holiday. You
:24:09. > :24:11.can imagine my office was beside themselves when they heard this,
:24:12. > :24:15.only to find out a couple of hours later that it was a misprint and
:24:16. > :24:19.it's actually 5.6 weeks. The Government can't even get its white
:24:20. > :24:26.paper right, how can we even trust them to get the deal out of the EU
:24:27. > :24:30.right? I want to take a question from James fits Henry, please, about
:24:31. > :24:36.what actually is going on, because it refers to what happened today? In
:24:37. > :24:39.view of the Bank of England's growth forecast of 2% today, what's
:24:40. > :24:43.happened to Amageddon. Which Patrick, I have to remind you was
:24:44. > :24:46.what your side was saying was going to happen, we were going to have
:24:47. > :24:51.emergency budgets, tax increases a and all of that and none of that's
:24:52. > :24:57.happened? No, and that's when the lady earlier on said that they were
:24:58. > :25:01.lied to, I think both sides of the argument didn't certainly put its
:25:02. > :25:09.case. Did you anticipate things were going to go fine if we voted Brexit?
:25:10. > :25:12.I was concerned about whether we'd continue to get inward investment in
:25:13. > :25:16.this country. What's happened since Brexit is we have continued to get
:25:17. > :25:21.the inward investment. Is it all rosy from now on in your view?
:25:22. > :25:26.There's going to be two years of negotiations once we have triggered
:25:27. > :25:30.Article 50 and the answer to the gentleman there, the House of
:25:31. > :25:34.Commons voted for the principle second reading of the Bill, there's
:25:35. > :25:38.be committee stages for three days and the Bill has to go to the
:25:39. > :25:41.Lord's. We haven't been short of debate and we are certainly not
:25:42. > :25:46.going to be short of debate. It's about the outcome, not the debate.
:25:47. > :25:48.But the gentleman made the point... We are tonne another point now,
:25:49. > :25:54.whether the sun is shining and the clouds have gone, all the things you
:25:55. > :25:57.feared haven't come to pass? We still have not yet exited the
:25:58. > :26:01.European Union but there is no doubt that the Bank of England in its
:26:02. > :26:07.forecasts were wrong, as the Governor's made clear today. He's
:26:08. > :26:11.given revised growth forecasts. So look, the truth is, those of us who
:26:12. > :26:14.voted to remain and I voted to remain, have got to accept that we
:26:15. > :26:18.lost the debate and we lost the vote and we've now got to implement the
:26:19. > :26:22.will of the British people. We know that. You can't have a referendum
:26:23. > :26:27.and say, by the way, everybody got it wrong. You are arguing a
:26:28. > :26:33.different point. We are arguing about what is going to happen. Nick
:26:34. > :26:38.Hewer? Nothing's happened. The forecast has gone on. But the
:26:39. > :26:44.reality hasn't kicked in yet. Have the prices shot up? All I'm saying
:26:45. > :26:52.is, we won't know what the future holds until the deal's done with
:26:53. > :26:58.Europe. So it's no surprise that people are shopping away, why
:26:59. > :27:06.shouldn't they? Nothing's changed. It hasn't happened yet. Only
:27:07. > :27:11.sentiment's happened. A huge amount as changed. This wasn't just a
:27:12. > :27:17.civilised debate, it was a serious amount of bullying of the public in
:27:18. > :27:20.Britain to stay in the EU or else, that particularly came from George
:27:21. > :27:23.Osborne and, I'm afraid, Mark Carney. We were told there would be
:27:24. > :27:26.a punishment budget and that didn't happen. We were told that growth
:27:27. > :27:30.will collapse and that hasn't happened. Yet again, the Bank of
:27:31. > :27:34.England have upped their forecast. We were told the companies would
:27:35. > :27:39.flee the country and this wasn't just after we left the EU, it was
:27:40. > :27:43.immediately after the referendum, we were given dark forecasts that
:27:44. > :27:48.Amageddon wouldn't happen. The people were bullied, the people
:27:49. > :27:51.didn't listen, they thought that the EU was in serious difficulties and
:27:52. > :27:58.fought to regain their borders and they were totally right.
:27:59. > :28:06.APPLAUSE. Laura, do you think some say it will
:28:07. > :28:11.get tough again in two years' time and people will start to feel the
:28:12. > :28:17.pinch from leaving the EU? I don't have a crystal ball and, unlike
:28:18. > :28:23.certain politicians, I won't make forecasts that I don't know anything
:28:24. > :28:29.about unlike George Osborne. Britain is in a much, much stronger position
:28:30. > :28:32.than the rest of continental Europe. I wish continental Europe was
:28:33. > :28:36.stronger but Italy is basically bankrupt. Greece is bankrupt, Spain
:28:37. > :28:40.is bankrupt. When we were out of the EU, I can guarantee you the vast
:28:41. > :28:44.majority of people will see that it was a great decision for Britain, a
:28:45. > :28:50.great decision for Britain. Maajid?
:28:51. > :28:54.APPLAUSE. The truth is, look, and, as a
:28:55. > :29:00.remainor, hands down, we lost and the truth is none of us know how
:29:01. > :29:04.it's going to turn out. We shouldn't predict doom because it may turn out
:29:05. > :29:07.as a success. What I see at the moment, I see a vision, Theresa
:29:08. > :29:11.May's vision for Brexit and what she wants it to look like and the Prime
:29:12. > :29:16.Minister wants it to look like. What I don't see is those who're still in
:29:17. > :29:21.the remain camp, still beating that drum. Frankly we have to accept A
:29:22. > :29:24.that we lost and B what is the post-Brexit vision that those who're
:29:25. > :29:28.in the Remain camp have, for how to make sure it's a success going
:29:29. > :29:32.forward, because frankly we have lost the debate. We have got to
:29:33. > :29:37.accept that and there needs to be a liberal view as to what post-Brexit
:29:38. > :29:40.Britain looks like, that we can then use to hold the Prime Minister to
:29:41. > :29:45.account. There is no opposition at the moment. The person on the
:29:46. > :29:50.gangway in white? I was voting remain. At the very last minute, I
:29:51. > :29:56.changed my decision and went to leave. The reason because of that is
:29:57. > :30:01.because of, I go to a supermarket and a banana is straight. I'm just
:30:02. > :30:07.sick of the silly rules that come out of Europe and... Have the
:30:08. > :30:13.bananas changed? If you go to Aldi they're a bit bent. It was bananas
:30:14. > :30:16.what did it for you? No, it was more than bananas, it was the fact that
:30:17. > :30:20.there are opportunities out there that I feel we need to see as a
:30:21. > :30:26.country. And you're optimistic now, you are pleased the way you voted? I
:30:27. > :30:29.am. Rebecca, last word from you in terms of all things that have
:30:30. > :30:32.happened today and the economic forecast, doesn't it look much
:30:33. > :30:38.better than people like you thought it would be? The point the gentleman
:30:39. > :30:42.made about growth, don't be fooled, as Nick said we haven't seen
:30:43. > :30:48.anything yet, Article 50's not been triggered. If you look behind the
:30:49. > :30:51.growth figures, Mark Carney said our improved growth was based on
:30:52. > :30:55.consumer spending and in turn that consumer spending has been fuelled
:30:56. > :30:58.by household debt. That household debt is being fuelled by people
:30:59. > :31:02.who're having to borrow in order to make ends meet because they're not
:31:03. > :31:06.earning enough to live on. We have had a lost decade again, the bank
:31:07. > :31:10.stated this, a lost decade on earnings. Even the resolution
:31:11. > :31:14.foundation brought out a report saying we were on curse for the
:31:15. > :31:19.biggest increase in inequality since Thatcher, so our economy is not in
:31:20. > :31:20.fine shape, for a Brexit, and the Government needs to get its act
:31:21. > :31:33.together as quickly on possible. The statistics show the gap is
:31:34. > :31:40.narrowing, but you may be right about the future. A question from
:31:41. > :31:45.Steven Smiley, please. What proposals would the panel put in
:31:46. > :31:51.place to curb the millions being wasted on health tourism each year?
:31:52. > :31:56.Health tourism is allegedly stacking up a bill of nearly 300 million,
:31:57. > :32:00.depending on the figures you get, people coming and using the NHS and
:32:01. > :32:09.not paying for it. Nick Hewer, what would you do? I think what you do,
:32:10. > :32:13.actually, and I know it is hard and all the rest of it, but you have got
:32:14. > :32:20.to be paid for the service you provide. If you are not entitled to
:32:21. > :32:28.it as a national of this country. I remember my father years ago was on
:32:29. > :32:32.holiday in France. When his appendix popped, they wouldn't operate until
:32:33. > :32:39.they have the money. We thought this was very hard and unfair, but
:32:40. > :32:43.actually, perhaps it was not an unrealistic thing to do. People have
:32:44. > :32:44.got to pay if they are not entitled to get it free.
:32:45. > :32:57.APPLAUSE Having said that, I am not
:32:58. > :33:00.suggesting they should die on the operating table while someone is
:33:01. > :33:08.waiting to sign the check. But somewhere in the middle. I agree
:33:09. > :33:14.with Nick. It is very wrong that people are coming here to claim free
:33:15. > :33:19.health when they are not entitled to it. It is important to remember that
:33:20. > :33:23.it is not just a question of money. People who are living in Britain and
:33:24. > :33:30.have been paying into a system are actually being denied treatment, in
:33:31. > :33:33.part because of health tourism. Operations are being cancelled
:33:34. > :33:38.because hospitals and hospital trusts are not doing their best to
:33:39. > :33:43.regroup these costs. I don't think that is fair if you have paid into a
:33:44. > :33:47.system and somebody, a citizen of a different country, comes in and
:33:48. > :33:52.secures treatment they are not entitled to, morally or financially.
:33:53. > :33:57.It is a system that can't continue. I think it is part of the broader
:33:58. > :34:02.problem with the NHS overall. This is a small part of a much bigger
:34:03. > :34:10.problem. You, sir. I agree with Nick. I was in Spain with my
:34:11. > :34:13.daughter in 2001 and we had forgotten our form. She was 18
:34:14. > :34:20.months old and the only treatment they would give her was intravenous
:34:21. > :34:26.fluids to keep her alive. They would not give her any medication
:34:27. > :34:32.whatsoever. It took four days, and we had to pay for the accommodation
:34:33. > :34:37.costs. We got it refunded at the end. Right or wrong? I think it was
:34:38. > :34:47.completely wrong, especially with a child. ID checks could be of
:34:48. > :34:51.beginning. Health tourism is a serious problem. I don't think
:34:52. > :34:55.withholding operations, as in this case, is the way forward. But once
:34:56. > :34:59.you know they are not British, you have a way of making sure that
:35:00. > :35:04.people are billed for services. This is part of a wider problem, a huge
:35:05. > :35:08.funding gap in the NHS. 30 billion over the next five years just to
:35:09. > :35:13.keep it where it is, let alone to improve the thing. We have to look
:35:14. > :35:16.at serious reforms in a nonpartisan way. Some of the political parties
:35:17. > :35:24.are playing political football with this. But do you think this health
:35:25. > :35:30.tourism is a serious issue? The BBC have a documentary of a Nigerian
:35:31. > :35:36.woman who ran up a bill of 330,000. Compared with the overall debt of
:35:37. > :35:40.the NHS... Even if we recover all of those costs, it will not plug the
:35:41. > :35:45.hole that we have coming up, a huge crisis. I would put a penny on
:35:46. > :35:47.National Insurance, for example. I would pay an extra penny.
:35:48. > :35:56.APPLAUSE Mentioning the Nigerian lady who ran
:35:57. > :35:58.up half a million, she flew first to the United States where she was
:35:59. > :36:05.turned away. They clearly spotted something we
:36:06. > :36:12.didn't. And what do you feel about the issue? I will dispute what Nick
:36:13. > :36:17.says about paying into the system. We pay into the system. I think
:36:18. > :36:26.Laura was right on that. We don't get it for free, we pay for it. It
:36:27. > :36:31.is just after January 31. We have all paid our tax bills. To your
:36:32. > :36:37.right. I am proposing that if you don't pay you should not have access
:36:38. > :36:42.to the NHS. If people, for instance, boys been on benefits, the family
:36:43. > :36:46.has not worked for generations, should we stop them? Should we say,
:36:47. > :36:52.you have not been paying in so you do not have a right for it? Surely
:36:53. > :36:56.we have to look at people's need. Of course, there are some things that
:36:57. > :37:01.are not emergency, where we should not offer care. But where there is
:37:02. > :37:09.an emergency need, for instance with that child, or a ruptured appendix,
:37:10. > :37:14.you have to deal with it. You cannot not deal with emergencies. If people
:37:15. > :37:18.are coming for planned surgery, of course that is unacceptable. But if
:37:19. > :37:23.people are caught ill in our country, it is right that we look
:37:24. > :37:26.after them, because these are part of our British values. This is part
:37:27. > :37:31.of being British. APPLAUSE
:37:32. > :37:37.When I travel abroad, I take out medical insurance.
:37:38. > :37:40.The cost of a flight, for an extra couple of quid, take out medical
:37:41. > :37:49.insurance and that will solve the problem. The operative word was
:37:50. > :37:53."Tourism". Our NHS and our country as a whole was built on the
:37:54. > :37:56.principle of fairness. Nobody thinks this is fair, per se, but what I
:37:57. > :38:01.would want from the government figures as to how much it cost to
:38:02. > :38:05.enforce this and how much they would recoup. We do not want hospitals
:38:06. > :38:10.turned into border patrols, turning away people in severe need of urgent
:38:11. > :38:15.care. Why is this issue coming up again? Last week, the government
:38:16. > :38:19.were trying to blame GPs not staying open long enough for the crisis in
:38:20. > :38:26.the NHS, and now we are hearing about health tourism. The NHS has
:38:27. > :38:29.been stripped of funding. In 2010, the government cemented a
:38:30. > :38:34.reorganisation of the NHS so big you can see it from outer space, to
:38:35. > :38:37.break it up and privatise it. That is their gender, their direction of
:38:38. > :38:38.travel, and the rest of us are going to suffer as a consequence.
:38:39. > :38:53.APPLAUSE The Public Accounts Committee said
:38:54. > :38:55.that recouping costs from foreign nationals is chaotic, in their
:38:56. > :39:00.report this week. What are you going to do about it?
:39:01. > :39:06.We do have two address it. A couple of points I would make, without
:39:07. > :39:11.wanting to use a well worn phrase, I do agree with Nick. People in this
:39:12. > :39:16.country pay for the health service. It is not free, but costs us a lot
:39:17. > :39:23.of money. I do have sympathy with the gentleman who talked about his
:39:24. > :39:27.experience in Spain. If someone is in urgent need, I would not like to
:39:28. > :39:30.have to wait to find out if they have got cover. I think that should
:39:31. > :39:36.be done and then we should recoup the money afterwards. That is the
:39:37. > :39:41.way forward. I do not want to see anybody denied emergency medicine if
:39:42. > :39:44.they were so in need of it. That is not the way that Britain operates
:39:45. > :39:50.and it is not the way Britain will operate. As far as what Rebecca was
:39:51. > :39:57.saying, we have committed to put extra money into the health service.
:39:58. > :40:02.We are, which was more than what you did at the last general election.
:40:03. > :40:10.4.6 billion cut from social care, 2.45 billion deficit for hospitals,
:40:11. > :40:15.the worst on record so far. 600 million from mental health. The
:40:16. > :40:18.Labour Party always talk about spending money, not raising money
:40:19. > :40:24.and learning that money to afford services. When we came into office
:40:25. > :40:31.we inherited the largest deficit of any country -- that any government
:40:32. > :40:37.ever inherited. This is a bigger amount than any Labour government in
:40:38. > :40:41.history. I wonder if Theresa May thinks she can get some help from
:40:42. > :40:48.the Americans to help with our NHS. What do you mean? It seems she has
:40:49. > :40:50.been over, and if you look at Jeremy Hunt and his plans, it does seem
:40:51. > :40:59.that privatisation is knocking on the door. I think we will go on
:41:00. > :41:07.because we only have... I would like two more questions. Dawn Pollitt. Do
:41:08. > :41:11.we have an effective opposition in the UK? To quote Theresa May, he can
:41:12. > :41:18.lead a protest, I am leading the country. He can lead a protest, I am
:41:19. > :41:21.leading the country. Do we have an effective opposition? Who would like
:41:22. > :41:27.to start on this and it would like to finish. Rebecca, you start. Of
:41:28. > :41:30.course we have an effective opposition. Our job is to hold the
:41:31. > :41:34.government to account and set out a vision of the future that another
:41:35. > :41:37.world is possible. I have already outlined that our economy is
:41:38. > :41:42.failing. The Government is not putting the economy first. I don't
:41:43. > :41:45.agree with George Osborne very often but he illustrated in his Brexit
:41:46. > :41:51.speech that Theresa May was not putting the economy first in terms
:41:52. > :41:55.of Brexit negotiations. Labour has a selection of red lines. We will
:41:56. > :42:02.rebuild and transform this economy, so yes, there certainly is an
:42:03. > :42:06.effective opposition. Laura. It is clear that the opposition is firstly
:42:07. > :42:11.hopelessly divided on the big issue of the day, Brexit, where literally
:42:12. > :42:17.their MPs cannot be bothered to turn up for a vote. I don't necessarily
:42:18. > :42:24.want to go back to the first issue, but it did strike me... Who could
:42:25. > :42:31.not be bothered? Diane Abbott. She had a headache. She was taking part
:42:32. > :42:35.in a debate earlier in the day. This is the reason there was so much
:42:36. > :42:38.grandstanding and protesting on the street as opposed to voting in our
:42:39. > :42:43.democratically elected parliament over Trump. They can unify over
:42:44. > :42:48.Trump. They want to be the official opposition to Trump, but we have the
:42:49. > :42:50.Democrats for that. You need to be the official opposition to the
:42:51. > :42:51.Conservatives and you are being hopeless about it at the moment.
:42:52. > :43:05.APPLAUSE I think not only is the opposition
:43:06. > :43:11.in disarray, I think it is descending into puerile displays of
:43:12. > :43:15.protest and shouting and in many instances preferring even in some
:43:16. > :43:21.cases violence, and justifying violence on the left, instead of
:43:22. > :43:29.developing serious policy solutions. Justifying violence? Whether it is
:43:30. > :43:36.on campus, banning speakers, you see Barkley has been set alight today.
:43:37. > :43:41.It is a terrible thing to say that we justify violence. I did not say
:43:42. > :43:45.the Labour Party. You can take responsibility for it if you like. I
:43:46. > :43:49.think it is descending into authoritarian displays of wanting to
:43:50. > :43:53.shut down debate. One of the examples is a lack of vision, as I
:43:54. > :43:57.mentioned earlier, even over what happens after Brexit. We need a
:43:58. > :44:01.clear vision emanating from the Leader of the Opposition that isn't
:44:02. > :44:05.there. We do not know what the alternative is to resisting Theresa
:44:06. > :44:10.May's policies. We do not know what the country will look like after
:44:11. > :44:13.Brexit. It is about time we started looking towards the future and
:44:14. > :44:23.articulated a Liberal vision for post-Brexit written. The woman on
:44:24. > :44:28.the right. -- Britain. How can the Labour Party be seen as the
:44:29. > :44:36.opposition if they cannot even stand on one stance over Brexit? The woman
:44:37. > :44:40.next to you. I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is totally to blame for the
:44:41. > :44:47.fall of the Labour Party. It started with Ed Miliband. That is where the
:44:48. > :44:53.fall of the Labour Party started. Nick Hewer. I agree. Were you a
:44:54. > :44:57.Labour Party supporter before? I followed Labour since Wilson's
:44:58. > :45:05.victory. I was on Andrew Neil's show, which we will not talk about.
:45:06. > :45:09.Ed Miliband, his handshake was the handshake of a wet fish. And I went
:45:10. > :45:13.to William Hill the next day to try to put on a bet that he would not be
:45:14. > :45:17.leader of the Labour Party at the next general election and they would
:45:18. > :45:22.not take the bet. I would have lost it, but I was right, absolutely
:45:23. > :45:30.right. And now, sadly, and I am sorry, Rebecca, but Jeremy is not a
:45:31. > :45:33.leader. Just as Miliband wasn't a leader. And talking about William
:45:34. > :45:39.Hill, if I could throw in one further thing. I rang them today to
:45:40. > :45:45.try to put on a bet that Trump would not see out his first term. 2-1 that
:45:46. > :45:53.he would be impeached, 13-8 that he would resign. Fascinating. He will
:45:54. > :45:59.serve two terms. And did you place the bet? Rotten odds. But you are
:46:00. > :46:06.rich, you could have doubled your money.
:46:07. > :46:14.I've been a Labour voter all my life. And now I'm in a position
:46:15. > :46:18.where I'm really not sure to go. So I'm afraid it's not a good
:46:19. > :46:26.opposition at the moment. The man in the white shirt? The most
:46:27. > :46:32.effective opposition will be Ukip. Once Nigel Farage has been proven
:46:33. > :46:38.right over Brexit. In a couple of years, he will be. That is a fine
:46:39. > :46:44.endorsement of Corbyn. You, Sir, in the second row? It's a media
:46:45. > :46:49.campaign against Jeremy Corbyn. I read the newspapers, watch Sky,
:46:50. > :46:53.everywhere you look at it it's an attack, now they've seen to
:46:54. > :46:57.withdrew, no attacks any more, don't let him fall on his own sword but I
:46:58. > :47:04.don't understand the obsession. Yes OK you look and think, is he, could
:47:05. > :47:08.you see him leading the country, I question whether we could have our
:47:09. > :47:11.trust in him, but the attacks on him, it's just terrible. I don't
:47:12. > :47:15.understand the attacks on him, where they come from, he's a decent guy
:47:16. > :47:20.who is trying to look at things from a different way from the normal
:47:21. > :47:28.politician who says one thing then he'll flip-flop over. Honestly, it's
:47:29. > :47:32.like In The Thick Of It, honestly, it's ridiculous.
:47:33. > :47:40.APPLAUSE. On the point that he made about the
:47:41. > :47:44.media attacking, the Leader of the Opposition, being attacked, is it
:47:45. > :47:48.fair? That is nothing new. I was in opposition when the media attacked
:47:49. > :47:54.our lead, on numerous occasions. The fact of whether they are an
:47:55. > :47:59.effective opposition is this, 172 Labour MPs last year had voted no
:48:00. > :48:06.confidence in Jeremy Corbyn to run the Labour Party. If 172 Labour MPs
:48:07. > :48:10.don't think he's suitable to run the Labour Party, how on earth is he
:48:11. > :48:16.suitable to run the country as our Prime Minister?
:48:17. > :48:21.APPLAUSE. We have got a position at the moment
:48:22. > :48:25.where three members yesterday of the Shadow Cabinet resigned, and they've
:48:26. > :48:29.not been replaced. Why, because he's running short of people to do it.
:48:30. > :48:33.All the people who were in Ed Miliband's Shadow Cabinet almost run
:48:34. > :48:36.away from the frontbench. I'm not bothered about whether they are an
:48:37. > :48:40.effective opposition because as a Government we are going to try and
:48:41. > :48:46.address those people who feel left behind as a result of the referendum
:48:47. > :48:50.and we'll try to improve those standards as Theresa May has made
:48:51. > :48:54.perfectly clear of the questions which we have got to address for
:48:55. > :49:00.those parts of the country that feel left behind. And we will do that.
:49:01. > :49:03.Thank you. Rebecca briefly please? We are an effective opposition
:49:04. > :49:08.because Jeremy is a good man. If one thing came out of the Brexit vote,
:49:09. > :49:11.it's that people are sick of elitist politicians that don't speak for
:49:12. > :49:14.them honestly. They want somebody that delivers a bold vision and
:49:15. > :49:22.Jeremy is doing that. He's delivering a future that is based on
:49:23. > :49:25.paying your fair share, investing in our economy, high-paid jobs,
:49:26. > :49:28.aspiration where we can have an English dream, the equivalent of the
:49:29. > :49:31.American dream because at the moment there isn't one. You work your
:49:32. > :49:35.fingers to the bone and you get nowhere. That's why we need to elect
:49:36. > :49:37.the Labour Party as quickly as possible.
:49:38. > :49:43.Right. Thank you. APPLAUSE.
:49:44. > :49:47.Off the stump for a moment and to a completely different question to end
:49:48. > :49:51.with from William Clements, please? Should parents will fined for taking
:49:52. > :49:54.their children out of school? We'll have to be quick here. Should
:49:55. > :49:57.parents be fined for taking children out of school in term time? It's
:49:58. > :50:02.gone to the Supreme Court because of a case in the Isle of Wight. We
:50:03. > :50:05.needn't go into the details, but the father complained, it went to the
:50:06. > :50:11.High Court, then to the Supreme Court. Maajid? I impa thigh with
:50:12. > :50:15.parents who can't afford to pay peak fares during the peak travel times.
:50:16. > :50:21.Of course that's one of the reasons cited for why they justify doing
:50:22. > :50:27.that -- sympathise. The children's needs come first frankly. Taking
:50:28. > :50:31.them out of class can be disruptive. I'm not sure fines are the way
:50:32. > :50:35.forward. Usually the parents travelling off peak are doing so
:50:36. > :50:41.precisely because they can't afford it. I don't think fines are the way
:50:42. > :50:45.forward, but there needs to be some form of disincentive. Laura? It's an
:50:46. > :50:49.interesting issue. I don't think fines are necessary. I did initially
:50:50. > :50:53.think the other way around. If you are signing up to go to school, you
:50:54. > :50:57.are part of a school community and you don't just have a duty to your
:50:58. > :51:01.own children who should be in school and should be being educated in that
:51:02. > :51:04.school and I know holidays have an educational benefit, but it's really
:51:05. > :51:07.important first of all that your own child is at school and secondly you
:51:08. > :51:11.have a duty to the other children that are there because if your child
:51:12. > :51:16.falls behind because you've taken them out to go on holiday, then it's
:51:17. > :51:22.disruptive to the other children when your own children have to catch
:51:23. > :51:28.up. So I don't think it's fair as a whole. School is like a family. You
:51:29. > :51:31.have a duty to the school and the community. There should be
:51:32. > :51:35.solidarity. You have signed up, you are sending your children there and
:51:36. > :51:39.you should support each other and taking Archbishop out of school is
:51:40. > :51:41.-- taking children out of school is disruptive for other children as
:51:42. > :51:47.well. The woman at the back? Can you
:51:48. > :51:53.explain to me why schools, our primary schools, are used for two
:51:54. > :51:58.days during the referendum for the Brexit vote and local elections
:51:59. > :52:02.which takes two days out of their education timetable for our
:52:03. > :52:10.children. That doesn't seem fair. We are on the question of children
:52:11. > :52:17.going out of school for holidays. Nick? OK. Yes. I think the finest
:52:18. > :52:20.thing that a parent can do for its child is ensure it gets the best
:52:21. > :52:26.possible education that it can. And I think that they should keep them
:52:27. > :52:30.in school. And they should forego the opportunity to have a warm swim
:52:31. > :52:34.somewhere off the Spanish coast. Even for families who can't afford
:52:35. > :52:38.to go during the holidays because all the prices go up, the hotels
:52:39. > :52:43.cost more, the flights do. I dare say they do, but we don't all have
:52:44. > :52:47.to two to Spain, they can go to Devon or wherever it is. The kids'
:52:48. > :52:53.education is the most important thing. I unusually agree with you
:52:54. > :52:58.lot. Unfortunately, even Devon is extortionate in the holidays. I have
:52:59. > :53:03.a four-year-old and I was flabbergasted at the cost during
:53:04. > :53:06.school holiday time. We need to take a pragmatic approach. I agree with
:53:07. > :53:10.the panel, you have to ensure your child has the best education. One or
:53:11. > :53:14.two days here or there in order to secure a cheaper holiday for parents
:53:15. > :53:17.who perhaps can't afford to take their children away in school time
:53:18. > :53:21.seems to be a pragmatic approach to me and the schools could potentially
:53:22. > :53:26.monitor, if it was the same family going away every single few weeks,
:53:27. > :53:29.then that's not acceptable, obviously, but I think once in a
:53:30. > :53:34.blue moon, there shouldn't really be an issue with it.
:53:35. > :53:39.APPLAUSE. I'm a mum to a few boys and I think
:53:40. > :53:43.one of my issues with the school holidays is there seems to be a long
:53:44. > :53:46.period of six weeks in the summer and, as a working mum you are
:53:47. > :53:51.juggling constantly with the children. I would actually like to
:53:52. > :53:57.see a review of the academic school year. Three weeks over Christmas and
:53:58. > :54:02.five weeks in the summer maybe. You would still have the holiday problem
:54:03. > :54:04.though? You do, but that is where that flexibility and conversations
:54:05. > :54:09.come in. We have an issue that if you have a child in a different area
:54:10. > :54:11.and if you work in a different area, my children can be off at a
:54:12. > :54:14.different half-term to me and we need to look at this as a whole
:54:15. > :54:18.picture and not just going on holiday.
:54:19. > :54:22.Patrick? I think you've got to look at the effect that it's had on the
:54:23. > :54:25.rest of the children in that class if they know certain people are
:54:26. > :54:30.going away on holiday and they're not. Then on the way that that child
:54:31. > :54:33.has to catch up on that particular subject when he comes back off
:54:34. > :54:38.holiday and the pressure that puts on the school and the teachers. The
:54:39. > :54:42.simple fact is, we are paying a lot of money into our education system
:54:43. > :54:46.for children to go to school and, if they miss that schooling, they miss
:54:47. > :54:54.that opportunity. So you are pro-fines? I do not think
:54:55. > :54:57.it's right to take children out of school for holidays unless it's
:54:58. > :55:00.very, very exceptional circumstances. Are you pro-fines?
:55:01. > :55:05.Yes. Thank you. So the Supreme Court take notice?
:55:06. > :55:11.No. I'm sure they won't. The woman there with the glasses on
:55:12. > :55:15.in black? I think the way the education system works at the moment
:55:16. > :55:19.specifically with primary schools, children are being taught how to
:55:20. > :55:26.answer exam questions rather than actually being taught how to learn,
:55:27. > :55:30.so in terms of holidays, I wouldn't condone to take children out of
:55:31. > :55:35.school on a regular basis, but for maybe once a year, I think they can
:55:36. > :55:37.learn a lot more on a few days' holiday than what they'd be reading
:55:38. > :55:42.in a textbook. APPLAUSE.
:55:43. > :55:48.People who home school believe they can learn more out of school all the
:55:49. > :55:52.time which is another matter. Stuart Mottershead, 60 seconds for your
:55:53. > :55:56.intriguing question, let's have it? Should all politicians have someone
:55:57. > :55:57.sat behind them with a sign saying "he's lying to you? ".
:55:58. > :56:10.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. This is Nigel Farage who was
:56:11. > :56:14.photographed in the European Parliament with a Labour MEP behind
:56:15. > :56:23.him with a sign with anner row saying "he's lying to you". Should
:56:24. > :56:29.all politicians have that? We have to be very quick -- an arrow. The
:56:30. > :56:31.default position is that a lot of politicians are quite economical
:56:32. > :56:34.with the truth but that shouldn't be the case. We need to put more truth
:56:35. > :56:39.back into politics because people are losing faith in it quite
:56:40. > :56:48.frankly. Patrick? Hear, hear. She's telling the truth. Go on? Quickly.
:56:49. > :56:53.Oh I right, thank you. I show one of Donald Trump's favourite boasts was
:56:54. > :56:58.that he wasn't a politician so I think it's an interesting question
:56:59. > :57:02.and overall I think we try to do the best for our constituents and we try
:57:03. > :57:05.and be as honest and open as we possibly can.
:57:06. > :57:08.It's like having somebody on your shoaleder saying, don't believe
:57:09. > :57:12.everything he says. Very quickly, yes or no, politicians liars, tell
:57:13. > :57:17.the truth. You have to be very brief? They should just tell the
:57:18. > :57:23.truth. Maajid? We have to trust each other
:57:24. > :57:28.a lot more, hold each other to account. Lawyers, bankers, teachers,
:57:29. > :57:37.clergy get it. We keep hating each other like this, we end up with
:57:38. > :57:42.Donald Trump. Donald Trump is nothing but a, narcissist. Next time
:57:43. > :57:47.your Prime Minister goes to see him, she held his hand on the first date.
:57:48. > :57:49.Make sure she takes a chaperone for the second time. That's all I can
:57:50. > :58:01.say. APPLAUSE.
:58:02. > :58:06.The creed of Question Time is that all politicians tell the truth when
:58:07. > :58:08.on Question Time. We're in Torquay next week, with,
:58:09. > :58:12.among others, Billy Bragg To come and take part
:58:13. > :58:19.in our audience in Torquay or Glasgow go to our website,
:58:20. > :58:22.or call 0330 123 99 88. If you are listening tonight
:58:23. > :58:34.on Radio 5 Live, the debate goes Thank you to the audience and the
:58:35. > :59:03.panel and to the audience for watching. Good night.
:59:04. > :59:07.There's a reason why your drink tastes better today,
:59:08. > :59:09.why you're noticing the subtle botanicals,
:59:10. > :59:16.It's your brain playing tricks on you.
:59:17. > :59:20.A thick-bottomed, heavier glass makes you think it's more expensive.
:59:21. > :59:25.It's the same reason they put weights in TV remotes and phones.