:00:00. > :00:16.Welcome to Question Time, which tonight comes from Edinburgh.
:00:17. > :00:18.With us on our panel, the Conservative Home Office
:00:19. > :00:24.The SNP Home Affairs spokesperson, Joanna Cherry.
:00:25. > :00:28.Labour's Shadow Foreign Secretary, Emily Thornberry.
:00:29. > :00:30.The Financial Times columnist and editor of MoneyWeek Magazine,
:00:31. > :00:36.And the actor who campaigned for Scottish independence
:00:37. > :00:57.And just remember at home, you've got Twitter and
:00:58. > :01:02.You can follow us by searching for BBC Question Time.
:01:03. > :01:09.Press the red button to see what others are saying.
:01:10. > :01:15.Our first question from Eric Holford, please.
:01:16. > :01:19.Is the leaked Labour manifesto an attempt to drag Britain back
:01:20. > :01:29.I think that this manifesto is one which is about
:01:30. > :01:33.It's about the 21st-century, it's not looking backwards.
:01:34. > :01:37.It's actually looking at what options do we want.
:01:38. > :01:39.We have a choice now with this general election.
:01:40. > :01:44.We can be a country where we don't need to have nurses going
:01:45. > :01:46.to food banks any more, where we have a National Health
:01:47. > :01:50.Service that has sufficient funds, where elderly women have a visitor
:01:51. > :01:53.in the morning from social care that will get them up at breakfast
:01:54. > :01:56.time instead of having to wait until lunchtime.
:01:57. > :01:59.We will not have young people who will unnecessarily be saddled
:02:00. > :02:02.with debt because they've been to university.
:02:03. > :02:05.We will have chances for young people to be able to move out
:02:06. > :02:08.of their parents' homes and to be able to move into their
:02:09. > :02:13.We will have a world where if you get a job in the City,
:02:14. > :02:16.you're not afraid of having to pay all that money that you are having
:02:17. > :02:18.to pay at the moment to private train companies,
:02:19. > :02:20.frankly quite often owned by other countries.
:02:21. > :02:23.And we will have a train service which is owned by Britain instead.
:02:24. > :02:25.There is a choice, there is another way,
:02:26. > :02:28.and the question is, in this election, do we want to do
:02:29. > :02:31.that, or do we want to carry on with the tired old Tory party
:02:32. > :02:35.that has run out of ideas completely?
:02:36. > :02:43.I take it from what you say, that it was accurate,
:02:44. > :02:49.What it was was that it was an earlier draft.
:02:50. > :02:57.The leak was a couple of earlier drafts.
:02:58. > :03:01.It had been changed quite a lot before we went to the meeting today.
:03:02. > :03:04.So there are things that we don't know that are in it?
:03:05. > :03:10.We are not like Theresa May who will go into a locked room
:03:11. > :03:12.with some friends and draft the manifesto themselves
:03:13. > :03:21.I'm just trying to check the veracity of what we've read.
:03:22. > :03:23.All I'm saying is that we are a democratic party
:03:24. > :03:26.and in those circumstances, when you consult a lot of people,
:03:27. > :03:28.you might get somebody who for whatever reason thinks that
:03:29. > :03:31.it's somehow clever to draft some sort of early, leak some sort
:03:32. > :03:36.I'm not saying it's 100 miles away from the manifesto
:03:37. > :03:47.We were costing it today and there's still more work being done
:03:48. > :03:53.Well, if we put aside the sort of chaotic way that a government
:03:54. > :03:55.in waiting sort of handle the manifesto launch,
:03:56. > :04:01.or the non-launch, if we put aside the fact that the leader doesn't
:04:02. > :04:03.actually agree with some of the issues in it,
:04:04. > :04:06.such as nuclear Trident, and we put aside the background that
:04:07. > :04:10.actually the Government and the country is still living
:04:11. > :04:19.We've brought it down from 157 billion.
:04:20. > :04:23.And we have to remain on course to start living within our means.
:04:24. > :04:27.If we put all of those aside and ask ourselves whether this manifesto
:04:28. > :04:31.is affordable and whether this manifesto would actually deliver
:04:32. > :04:35.the stability and the economy that this country needs to get
:04:36. > :04:40.through the next five years, I think the answer is a resounding no.
:04:41. > :04:45.Some of the commitments in the manifesto will put out
:04:46. > :04:48.of work the thousands of aerospace workers in my constituency,
:04:49. > :04:53.and indeed in the west of Scotland, by the clear antipathy
:04:54. > :04:58.towards aerospace and our manufacturing industry that it is.
:04:59. > :05:06.Yes, you are, you're going to ban it to Saudi Arabia.
:05:07. > :05:14.Jeremy Corbyn has a strong, long-held antipathy
:05:15. > :05:17.towards the aerospace industry and it is absolutely clear that
:05:18. > :05:27.Emily talks about there's some more work being done.
:05:28. > :05:31.They are busy out growing the money tree to try and make up the money.
:05:32. > :05:35.And I think we are in a position where if this manifesto goes ahead
:05:36. > :05:38.and if Labour won the next election, we would find our economy
:05:39. > :05:42.would crash, we would go back to the state of the 1970s,
:05:43. > :05:45.the trade unions would be in the front door.
:05:46. > :05:47.Emily talks about whether the Prime Minister makes up
:05:48. > :05:49.the manifesto with a few friends behind closed doors.
:05:50. > :05:52.The trade union barons have been in, writing the checks and getting
:05:53. > :05:55.what they want in this manifesto, and it risks enterprise,
:05:56. > :05:58.risks business and risks aspiration of people in this country
:05:59. > :06:02.who are trying to make our economy stronger.
:06:03. > :06:09.When the Labour Party came out last week and announced one of the first
:06:10. > :06:12.of their initiatives which was let's give everyone four
:06:13. > :06:14.bank holidays per year, my reaction was,
:06:15. > :06:20.that is not going to set the heather on fire.
:06:21. > :06:22.I genuinely welcome this initiative by the Labour Party.
:06:23. > :06:24.It has put the cat among the pigeons.
:06:25. > :06:27.I think it's genuinely exciting because it's going to give
:06:28. > :06:30.the people of the United Kingdom a proper choice.
:06:31. > :06:38.I get the feeling the questioner is against it.
:06:39. > :06:41.He said he does not want to go back to the 70s.
:06:42. > :06:44.Let us not forget that every single one of us in this room,
:06:45. > :06:46.our parents, our grandparents, our taxes paid for the construction
:06:47. > :06:52.They paid for the electricity grid, for the gas supplies.
:06:53. > :06:58.Suddenly, Margaret Thatcher comes along in the 80s and said,
:06:59. > :07:03.So she sold them all to her friends, who made an absolute fortune
:07:04. > :07:09.And it's about time we brought it back into our management.
:07:10. > :07:12.If Holland can do it, and Germany and France and Spain,
:07:13. > :07:14.if other countries in Europe can run their own systems,
:07:15. > :07:30.I'm old enough to remember the 70s, just.
:07:31. > :07:34.I remember when we had trains that were dirty,
:07:35. > :07:37.smelly and could not run on time at all.
:07:38. > :07:41.I remember the times when we had unions that would bring
:07:42. > :07:43.down our government, our democratically
:07:44. > :07:48.I remember the winter of discontent, the three-day weeks, the power
:07:49. > :07:52.And I don't want to see us go back into that.
:07:53. > :07:55.It's a Tory government that brought us out of that and gave
:07:56. > :08:16.Privatisation, rail fares, I believe, roughly
:08:17. > :08:26.My daughter is a nurse, she earns 50% over the national average wage.
:08:27. > :08:31.She is in a perfectly good profession if she well managed.
:08:32. > :08:40.Yes, she works hard, does a good job, cares for people
:08:41. > :08:42.but she gets well paid for doing it as well.
:08:43. > :08:48.She lives in a nice flat with a nice little car, lives a nice life.
:08:49. > :08:50.And every nurse is the same, are they?
:08:51. > :09:09.I think it's a real shame the Labour manifesto has been leaked in this
:09:10. > :09:12.way because it has enabled the media to focus relentlessly
:09:13. > :09:14.on the Labour manifesto for the whole day, rather
:09:15. > :09:18.than the real issue in this election which should be
:09:19. > :09:20.the record of the Tory government at Westminster.
:09:21. > :09:22.What this election should be about is whether you want a hard
:09:23. > :09:24.Brexit that Theresa May is going to deliver,
:09:25. > :09:27.and the effect that will have on jobs and the economy.
:09:28. > :09:29.And this election should also be about the Tory
:09:30. > :09:31.record on austerity, the fact that, as people
:09:32. > :09:34.in the audience have already said, low income families are having
:09:35. > :09:38.Disabled people are having their mobility cars taken away from them.
:09:39. > :09:40.And hard-working, low income families now have to cope
:09:41. > :09:51.Can you address the question, which was whether the Labour
:09:52. > :09:52.manifesto, specifically, is dragging Britain
:09:53. > :09:55.There are many things in this manifesto which I welcome
:09:56. > :09:58.because they reflect SNP policies which are in place in Scotland,
:09:59. > :10:02.such as no tuition fees, free school meals and votes
:10:03. > :10:07.And I agree with David, if other countries in Europe can
:10:08. > :10:10.have their rail systems nationalised and can run efficiently,
:10:11. > :10:13.as all of us have experienced when we travel on the continent,
:10:14. > :10:18.But I think the big issue about this leak is that somebody
:10:19. > :10:21.inside the Labour Party has done this, and it shows how divided
:10:22. > :10:27.Many of the MPs don't support the policies that
:10:28. > :10:34.Hang on, what do you think the motive is,
:10:35. > :10:39.I suspect the motive is by somebody on the right of the Labour Party
:10:40. > :10:44.But in fact it's drawn attention to it, hasn't it?
:10:45. > :10:47.The reality is that many of the policies in this
:10:48. > :10:49.manifesto are not supported by the Parliamentary Labour Party.
:10:50. > :10:54.Equally, Trident renewal is in the manifesto.
:10:55. > :10:56.Emily doesn't support Trident renewal, and the Scottish Labour
:10:57. > :11:02.So what this illustrates is the chaos and division
:11:03. > :11:08.I just wanted to make the point about the railways,
:11:09. > :11:11.in terms of my understanding is that railway companies, the private ones,
:11:12. > :11:14.receive four times as much funding as British Rail did
:11:15. > :11:21.And these private companies receive that subsidy and then a lot of these
:11:22. > :11:28.You want the railways renationalised.
:11:29. > :11:31.Absolutely, and joined up, so when you buy a ticket in one
:11:32. > :11:33.place, you can get to get right through, not different prices.
:11:34. > :11:37.Is that the most popular policy in what has come out today, for you?
:11:38. > :11:38.Well, actually, the main policy about protecting
:11:39. > :11:41.the most vulnerable people, because the UN has identified
:11:42. > :11:44.that the welfare policies are an aggressive policy that takes
:11:45. > :11:58.Well, Emily's vision of the future is absolutely gorgeous
:11:59. > :12:01.and what I like most about what was said this morning
:12:02. > :12:06.is more in this manifesto, because this list is so long,
:12:07. > :12:09.tens and tens and tens of things, all of which are incredibly
:12:10. > :12:12.expensive, and all of which are things that most people would like.
:12:13. > :12:15.Everybody would like everybody to be rich, everybody
:12:16. > :12:17.would like everybody to be happy, everybody would like everybody to go
:12:18. > :12:20.to university for free, and everybody would like everyone
:12:21. > :12:22.to have a gorgeous NHS that treated everyone on the most
:12:23. > :12:27.However, the slight problem is the money.
:12:28. > :12:30.We still have an enormous national debt, 1.8 trillion.
:12:31. > :12:33.We are adding to it to the tune of over a billion a week.
:12:34. > :12:37.We have a deficit that is still running at 4%.
:12:38. > :12:41.We ran up this debt, and constantly it keeps growing.
:12:42. > :12:43.We are not anywhere near balancing the books.
:12:44. > :12:46.What we have here is billions and billions of extra spending
:12:47. > :12:52.I can't for the life of me imagine how, given that on the way
:12:53. > :12:55.the country runs at the moment we are running a deficit.
:12:56. > :12:57.How this could be costed, I can't imagine.
:12:58. > :12:59.The few bits that have come out so far, we will pay
:13:00. > :13:01.for free school meals, one of the examples,
:13:02. > :13:05.which will be paid for by VAT on private school fees.
:13:06. > :13:08.That may work, but what you don't know is how many people will stop
:13:09. > :13:11.sending their children to private school when they have to pay VAT.
:13:12. > :13:14.So these things are very difficult to cost, and looking
:13:15. > :13:16.round the audience I think we are all old enough
:13:17. > :13:19.to have seen quite a few political cycles come and go,
:13:20. > :13:21.and we've seen what happens when politicians cost things.
:13:22. > :13:23.It never ever works out, the deficit goes up and up.
:13:24. > :13:26.So at some point, someone has to say, everything on this list has
:13:27. > :13:29.to be paid for and almost none of it is affordable.
:13:30. > :13:32.One more thing I will pick up on, the free tuition business.
:13:33. > :13:39.We do have free university tuition in Scotland for Scottish and EU
:13:40. > :13:41.students, obviously not English but Scottish and EU.
:13:42. > :13:44.And we have found here that it doesn't work in the way
:13:45. > :13:48.It doesn't reduce educational inequality.
:13:49. > :13:52.So if you come from a wealthy family in Scotland, you are 3.5 times more
:13:53. > :13:55.likely to apply to university through the UCAS system than
:13:56. > :14:00.So you are suggesting we reintroduce tuition fees...
:14:01. > :14:02.I am still talking, Joanna, I am still talking.
:14:03. > :14:06.I am in the middle of a sentence, David.
:14:07. > :14:09.She is picking you up on what you are saying.
:14:10. > :14:12.I haven't finished my sentence, which is that in England it is 2.5
:14:13. > :14:24.You are 2.5 times more likely to apply if you
:14:25. > :14:27.are wealthy in the UK, in England, than disadvantaged.
:14:28. > :14:32.So what we are seeing here is that the policy
:14:33. > :14:34.of free tuition has not had the desired result.
:14:35. > :15:21.Even afford the aircraft to go on them. If we scrap Trident, would
:15:22. > :15:25.that paved for what Emily Thornberry has been describing? Half of it
:15:26. > :15:30.won't even come close. One of the pledges is to nationalise National
:15:31. > :15:35.Grid. -- National Grid. The UK proportion of that is valued at ?23
:15:36. > :15:40.billion. This is the bankruptcy of this manifesto, the longest P 45
:15:41. > :15:46.issued in history. I can pick up a lot more places I would spend ?23
:15:47. > :15:55.billion than an ideological crusade to re-nationalise National Grid.
:15:56. > :16:03.It's not as Tony Blair said, the protests. The priority is getting
:16:04. > :16:10.Outcomes for the people of the UK, making sure they get access to the
:16:11. > :16:16.universities if they apply. The SNP had to cover the cost by cutting
:16:17. > :16:22.157,000 places, by the way, in colleges across Scotland. Not true.
:16:23. > :16:26.It is. And it's your own statisticic. It's about delivering
:16:27. > :16:29.for people of this country. This manifesto is about Jeremy Corbyn
:16:30. > :16:36.indulging in ideaology no matter what the cost. I will come to you in
:16:37. > :16:41.a moment. Emily Thornberry? I don't really know where to start. You have
:16:42. > :16:46.the manifesto. Eric's question is, dragging Britain back to the 70s?
:16:47. > :16:49.There has been lots of wild allegations made. The last general
:16:50. > :16:52.election, what we said to the Conservatives because they kind of
:16:53. > :16:59.said the same thing then before they adopted a lot of our policies, they
:17:00. > :17:02.said it isn't affordable. So they adopted your policies, so they're
:17:03. > :17:06.pro-Labour are they? Sometimes. If you look at the energy one and
:17:07. > :17:09.compare it with what Ed Miliband was saying, you would think, what is the
:17:10. > :17:15.difference here. So you don't have a problem with the Tories? We've gone
:17:16. > :17:22.further. What we are saying now is that we won't cap it. We'll set up
:17:23. > :17:26.an alternative energy company in each region, that will make them be
:17:27. > :17:29.able to challenge the companies. What we said at the last general
:17:30. > :17:33.election, we said, you are saying that we can't afford it, there is
:17:34. > :17:36.this organisation called the Office for Budget Responsibility, they are
:17:37. > :17:39.independent and we want you to give them your manifesto and our
:17:40. > :17:43.manifesto and they're independent and they can see whose sums add up.
:17:44. > :17:47.Do you know what, the Tories said no. This time around we have said,
:17:48. > :17:54.I'll tell you what, we are going to say the same, you know, rid louse
:17:55. > :17:58.allegations, let us -- liddic rows allegations, let us give your our
:17:59. > :18:01.manifesto, you give in your manifesto and let the Office for
:18:02. > :18:04.Budget Responsibility look at them. You are going to carry on saying
:18:05. > :18:07.these things. We want an independent Booed write to look at your
:18:08. > :18:11.manifesto, our manifesto and look at the sums. Why are you saying no?
:18:12. > :18:19.Emily... Well why? APPLAUSE.
:18:20. > :18:23.Unless I'm wrong, there are other organisations like the Institute for
:18:24. > :18:27.Fiscal Studies who have looked at your costings and you say for
:18:28. > :18:31.instance you will raise less revenue by putting corporation tax up in the
:18:32. > :18:35.long run because people won't invest. People will look at what you
:18:36. > :18:40.say? The question about corporation tax, the Tory Government want to cut
:18:41. > :18:44.it. We already have one of the lowest corporation tax rates of the
:18:45. > :18:48.G 67. We are saying we'll not have that cut and we'll raise it. We
:18:49. > :18:53.won't be making it any higher than any other countries in the Gp area.
:18:54. > :18:58.That will raise a large amount of money, we can pay for a national
:18:59. > :19:02.education service -- G7. They'll have better qualified for more
:19:03. > :19:08.productive staff as a result. I want to go to our audience. You, there?
:19:09. > :19:11.There seems to be a myth about national debt and GDP, somehow the
:19:12. > :19:22.Labour programme is unaffordable. After the Second World War, the
:19:23. > :19:28.national debt of GDP was over 200%, it's under 100% now. If Atlee could
:19:29. > :19:32.afford it, Corbyn's Labour Government is can afford to build
:19:33. > :19:40.the council houses and afford to create the National Bank.
:19:41. > :19:43.APPLAUSE. The question of the national debt
:19:44. > :19:47.after the Second World War is an important and interesting one. That
:19:48. > :19:52.is the last time we had our national debt at a level equivalent to where
:19:53. > :19:55.we are now. Try to remember how we ran that debt up, by having a vast
:19:56. > :19:59.war and killing a lot of people. Once you stop killing people, you
:20:00. > :20:03.can run the debt down. At the moment we have an enormous debt, likely
:20:04. > :20:08.because you spend a lot of money on keeping people alye. We don't want
:20:09. > :20:13.to stop doing that, do we? No, but he says if you can run the debt...
:20:14. > :20:17.8% of our tax revenue at the moment is spent on services our debt.
:20:18. > :20:21.Anything wrong with that? Well, it's not spent on anything else. But you
:20:22. > :20:25.get the money from the debt. People are out there working paying taxes
:20:26. > :20:28.but the large percentage of what they pay goes straight into paying
:20:29. > :20:33.debt every year. Are you from in favour of the national debt going up
:20:34. > :20:37.or down? The point the gentleman makes is an interesting one but what
:20:38. > :20:42.we need to remember is there is this myth drawn up that in some way the
:20:43. > :20:46.Tories can be drawn on the economy. They've missed their own targets on
:20:47. > :20:51.the debt, deficit and borrowing and Emily makes a good point when she
:20:52. > :20:55.says the Tories won't have their figures looked at by the office of
:20:56. > :20:58.budget responsibility. I can tell you why, their manifesto is going to
:20:59. > :21:03.revolve around their plans for a hard Brexit and we know that they've
:21:04. > :21:06.made absolutely no economic assessment whatsoever of the
:21:07. > :21:07.consequences of a hard Brexit. We know that because David Davis told
:21:08. > :21:16.us. APPLAUSE.
:21:17. > :21:20.OK. The man in the checked shirt on the edge? Is Germany stuck in the
:21:21. > :21:25.1970s, because this manifesto doesn't seem to be pushing to the
:21:26. > :21:30.left of Germany, it remains to the right of Germany? So how is Germany
:21:31. > :21:35.stuck in the '70s? Ben, can you take that point? I think Germany doesn't
:21:36. > :21:39.carry the weight of debt or deficit that we do and we should all be
:21:40. > :21:47.concerned that we should continue the direction of living within our
:21:48. > :21:50.means. And giving it away to billionaires and not collecting
:21:51. > :21:55.taxes from national corporations. After things like the NHS and
:21:56. > :21:59.pensions, the fifth biggest expenditure, it's not education,
:22:00. > :22:04.it's not transport, it's not the police, it's debt interest on the
:22:05. > :22:08.national debt. It's ?46 billion of money I can't spend or nor can
:22:09. > :22:11.anybody else spend on all those goodies that some people think are
:22:12. > :22:15.in the Labour manifesto. We have to live within our means and we have to
:22:16. > :22:20.continue to do that. I'm afraid to say, you know, that the Government's
:22:21. > :22:25.record on the economy is strong, the Government's record has created...
:22:26. > :22:30.LAUGHTER. You might laugh, it's ?2.8 million.
:22:31. > :22:34.Unless Emily wants us to cut the debt even faster, we have reduced
:22:35. > :22:40.it. I want you to give up on the politics of austerity. That's what I
:22:41. > :22:46.want you to do. Well, if you want to live... One at a time, please. All
:22:47. > :22:49.I'm saying is that I want you to stop the politics of austerity where
:22:50. > :22:52.ordinary working people have to continue to have their services cut
:22:53. > :22:55.in order to be able to pay the debt and guess what's happening to the
:22:56. > :22:59.debt, it continues to go up because we have to borrow to invest in order
:23:00. > :23:03.to get our economy going. That's the point. We can't just go on like
:23:04. > :23:08.this, we are flatlining. She wants us to go back to the days when Denis
:23:09. > :23:14.Haley gets called back from the airport to balance the books because
:23:15. > :23:21.the relationship with debt is... Nothing to do with Denis Healey.
:23:22. > :23:27.That is the reality. The woman at the back? We need to raise
:23:28. > :23:31.corporation taxes and all parties say we'll raise higher taxes for
:23:32. > :23:37.people who're on ?80,000 or more. That's not going to get anywhere
:23:38. > :23:44.close. Half of us don't earn ?20,000 odd, never mind ?80,000, we need to
:23:45. > :23:48.raise taxes for people earning ?35,000, ?40,000, never mind
:23:49. > :23:52.?80,000. You want more? Yes, as long as it goes back into certain things
:23:53. > :23:57.like the NHS and things like that. We'd pay more taxes but saying that
:23:58. > :24:02.we are going to raise taxes of ?80,000 or more...
:24:03. > :24:07.You, Sir, in the third row? I find it curious, whenever anybody
:24:08. > :24:09.announces any policies that are remotely competitive, the right
:24:10. > :24:13.always say, where is the money coming from. But I find it
:24:14. > :24:19.hypocritical that the money's always found to bail out the banks, it's
:24:20. > :24:22.always found to start wars and it's...
:24:23. > :24:26.APPLAUSE. And it's always found to give tax
:24:27. > :24:32.breaks and start illegal wars abroad. That's when the coffers
:24:33. > :24:37.spill open but don't let's feed poor children with free school meals.
:24:38. > :24:43.APPLAUSE. I want to move on. I'll come back to
:24:44. > :24:48.you, Eric, you asked the question. I'll say one last thing. You talked
:24:49. > :24:53.about free tuition in university, that's great. Back in the 1970s,
:24:54. > :24:58.tuition was free and you got a nice healthy grant. We only have 5% of
:24:59. > :25:02.children going to university. Now our aspiration is for at least ten
:25:03. > :25:07.times that proportion and in Scotland we find it's limited by the
:25:08. > :25:10.number of free places that are available and they'll now have to
:25:11. > :25:13.bring in foreign students and English students who'll pay the fees
:25:14. > :25:23.in order to keep the universities open. In the meantime, we lose more
:25:24. > :25:24.places in colleges than we have in total than Scottish students in
:25:25. > :25:32.university. OK. We have given the Labour
:25:33. > :25:36.manifesto an airing - the leak of the Labour manifesto. We'll go into
:25:37. > :25:42.the costings later on. Before we go on to another question. We are in
:25:43. > :25:46.Norwich next week and the week after that in Belfast. And then I
:25:47. > :25:52.particularly want to draw attention to two special Question Times. The
:25:53. > :25:55.first is in York on Friday, not the usual Thursday, Friday 2nd June
:25:56. > :26:01.where a Question Time audience will put questions to the Prime Minister
:26:02. > :26:08.and to Jeremy Corbyn, not however at the same time. And then on Sunday
:26:09. > :26:12.4th June, Nicola Sturgeon of the SNP and Tim Farron for the Liberal
:26:13. > :26:18.Democrats. That will be here in Edinburgh. So two extra programmes
:26:19. > :26:23.on the Friday and the Sunday, 2nd and 4th June. The details are on the
:26:24. > :26:28.screen and I'll give them at the end in more detail. Another question
:26:29. > :26:32.now, this one from Paul Goodall, please? Will a Conservative advance
:26:33. > :26:35.across Scotland halt a second independence referendum.
:26:36. > :26:41.Conservative advance across Scotland which we saw in the local elections,
:26:42. > :26:45.will it halt a second independence referendum by halting the SNP? David
:26:46. > :26:49.Hayman, what do you make of the local elections and the effect on
:26:50. > :26:54.Scotland if it's carried on through into a local election? Last week was
:26:55. > :26:57.extraordinary. The people in Scotland were laughing themselves
:26:58. > :27:02.silly. The fact is, SNP increased their vote by something like 108,000
:27:03. > :27:07.people. They increased their seats by six. They're now the largest
:27:08. > :27:11.party in four of the largest cities and they won Glasgow. For a
:27:12. > :27:14.Government that's been in power for ten years, that's an extraordinary
:27:15. > :27:14.statement coming from the people of Scotland.
:27:15. > :27:23.APPLAUSE. But, if you read any of the unionist
:27:24. > :27:26.press, it was like a landslide for the Tories and the nail was firmly
:27:27. > :27:42.in the coffin of independence. The Conservatives did... The
:27:43. > :27:46.Conservative... They gained 164 seats didn't they? Yes, but they
:27:47. > :27:50.took them from Labour. The overall numbers between Labour and the
:27:51. > :27:53.Tories stayed much the same. The overall numbers for the SNP have
:27:54. > :27:59.risen, so they've lost them from Labour. Seven seats, the SNP. We
:28:00. > :28:02.gained six. The SNP gained six? Gained six. There is a dispute about
:28:03. > :28:18.it apparently. Merryn Somerset Webb. I am still not
:28:19. > :28:21.sure there will be another independence referendum. It is a
:28:22. > :28:25.long time before we get to the end of the Brexit debate and it may be
:28:26. > :28:29.that Scotland decides that it doesn't want to do that, so it is
:28:30. > :28:34.not a given. But what is interesting about the research is of the Tories
:28:35. > :28:38.in Scotland is that it is partly about the Tory party, partly about
:28:39. > :28:42.having a good leader, but partly about the fact that Scottish
:28:43. > :28:45.politics has become something unpleasant, a division between
:28:46. > :28:51.people who are unionists and who are not. So we have people voting for
:28:52. > :28:55.the SNP who are anti-union, and we have people who are now coalescing
:28:56. > :29:01.around the Tories as the unionist party. This is a terribly sad
:29:02. > :29:04.situation because you have people not necessarily voting for party
:29:05. > :29:09.policy but voting on constitutional issues. We see this in the Scottish
:29:10. > :29:13.parliament where so much time is devoted to constitutional issues and
:29:14. > :29:19.not enough voted to other things... APPLAUSE
:29:20. > :29:27.And I think it has become a very sad thing.
:29:28. > :29:32.I know that Joanna and David very much want independence and I assume
:29:33. > :29:37.because other SNP politicians say they wanted, they must. But if I was
:29:38. > :29:41.an SNP leader I would be trying to build a great country, great place,
:29:42. > :29:45.so that people would want to have the thing that I am offering. I
:29:46. > :29:48.would build it and wait for them to come, rather than go on about it
:29:49. > :29:49.relentlessly and try and kick them into coming along with me.
:29:50. > :30:02.APPLAUSE I think we have come to a sad state
:30:03. > :30:05.in Scottish politics and I am glad to see a unionist research and
:30:06. > :30:08.reflected in the Tory party but I wish it did not have to happen this
:30:09. > :30:12.way. -- I am glad to see a unionist
:30:13. > :30:14.research is. I think, as David has
:30:15. > :30:17.already eloquently said, rumours of a huge Tory revival have
:30:18. > :30:19.been greatly exaggerated. The real story of last week's local
:30:20. > :30:22.elections was that Scotland was the only place in the UK
:30:23. > :30:25.where the Tories were firmly beaten But it's clear that the Tories
:30:26. > :30:28.are replacing Labour But as I go out on the doorsteps
:30:29. > :30:35.of Edinburgh South West I come across an interesting phenomenon
:30:36. > :30:37.whereby former Labour voters are saying that they want to lend me
:30:38. > :30:40.their vote to stop the Tories Because what this election is really
:30:41. > :30:45.about is about who will stand up Who will be a strong voice
:30:46. > :30:48.for Scotland at Westminster? And what voters in Scotland
:30:49. > :30:54.have to decide is, do they want a strong voice,
:30:55. > :30:57.such as that provided by me and my colleagues
:30:58. > :31:00.over the last two years, or do they want just another Tory
:31:01. > :31:04.backbencher who will simply rubber-stamp all of Theresa May's
:31:05. > :31:08.plans for austerity But to take the independence
:31:09. > :31:12.question on the chin, this general election is not
:31:13. > :31:16.about whether there will be a second Of course it's important that people
:31:17. > :31:23.in Scotland have a choice at the end of the 18-month period
:31:24. > :31:26.after the triggering of Article 50, a choice between a hard Brexit
:31:27. > :31:30.and an independent Scotland. And the Scottish Parliament has
:31:31. > :31:32.already voted that people in Scotland should have that choice,
:31:33. > :31:36.and polling shows that people in Scotland believe it should be up
:31:37. > :31:39.to the Scottish Parliament whether or not we have a second
:31:40. > :31:43.independence referendum. This second independence referendum
:31:44. > :31:46.hasn't just come out of a void. It's come as a result of Scotland
:31:47. > :31:50.facing being dragged out of the European Union
:31:51. > :31:53.against her will. People like Merryn, who were active
:31:54. > :31:57.in the No campaign during the last general election made a promise
:31:58. > :32:01.to Scotland that the only way to guarantee our EU citizenship
:32:02. > :32:04.was to vote to remain part So of course Scots should be given
:32:05. > :32:12.a choice, when the time is right. But of course, the issue in this
:32:13. > :32:15.general election is, do you want to give Theresa May
:32:16. > :32:18.a thumping majority, so she can do whatever she likes
:32:19. > :32:21.without any scrutiny, or do you want strong voices that
:32:22. > :32:25.will stand up, and in Scotland those strong voices that will stand up
:32:26. > :32:31.against Theresa May are the SNP. The woman in
:32:32. > :32:45.the middle with spectacles. I would just like to disagree
:32:46. > :32:48.with what Merryn said about politics I think there's a massive thirst
:32:49. > :32:52.for social justice here. And for the Labour Party manifesto,
:32:53. > :32:58.I think it's very, very welcome. I would be interested to know
:32:59. > :33:00.what you think about this Emily. Unfortunately, the Labour Party has
:33:01. > :33:04.positioned itself in Scotland as a vote for Labour
:33:05. > :33:08.being a vote against independence. I'd love to vote for Labour
:33:09. > :33:14.but I really don't know what to do. But you want to vote
:33:15. > :33:19.for independence? Well, I'm afraid I have
:33:20. > :33:23.to be straight with you. A vote for Labour is not
:33:24. > :33:26.a vote for independence. We believe in a United Kingdom
:33:27. > :33:29.and we don't think that it's in the interests of Scottish people
:33:30. > :33:31.to become independent. We think that you will end
:33:32. > :33:33.up with supercharged We think it is to the advantage
:33:34. > :33:39.of all of us to remain united, and we think that a vote for Labour
:33:40. > :33:42.is a vote against austerity. You will either get
:33:43. > :33:44.a Labour government There is no alternative
:33:45. > :33:48.to those two. And if you want to stand up
:33:49. > :33:51.to the Tories, if you want to fight And we get some Labour MPs
:33:52. > :33:56.from Scotland in Parliament, Alternatively, being part
:33:57. > :34:01.of a Labour government. And the SNP want to place
:34:02. > :34:05.themselves as the only alternative to the Tories,
:34:06. > :34:07.but that simply isn't true. And a vote for Labour is a vote
:34:08. > :34:10.to stopping the divisive politics. Stopping the divisive politics
:34:11. > :34:13.in Scotland and stopping divisive politics across the whole
:34:14. > :34:18.of the United Kingdom. I feel like you're missing my point,
:34:19. > :34:24.which is that I feel like my vote for Labour would be hijacked
:34:25. > :34:27.as a vote against another It's a vote for Labour,
:34:28. > :34:32.for the Labour Party manifesto, Why can't you vote for the SNP,
:34:33. > :34:38.if you want independence? The SNP is not the party
:34:39. > :34:43.I would like to vote for. I find the Labour Party's manifesto,
:34:44. > :34:47.from what I've heard of it so far, is more radical,
:34:48. > :34:54.it gives me more hope. The SNP policy appears to be,
:34:55. > :35:00.let's have a vote and vote again, and vote again, until we get,
:35:01. > :35:03.until they get the result What happens if it's a 50%
:35:04. > :35:14.plus one in a future Do we get a chance to vote
:35:15. > :35:20.the other way again? The politics of referenda
:35:21. > :35:23.are just so divisive and it It has divided families,
:35:24. > :35:32.divided communities, The politicians are elected to take
:35:33. > :35:40.decisions on our behalf and they hand it back to us,
:35:41. > :35:44.and we've made a bit We've just divided ourselves
:35:45. > :35:52.against ourselves. I was elected to the Scottish
:35:53. > :35:55.Parliament in 1999. You can imagine what it was like
:35:56. > :35:58.being a Tory in 1999 Scotland. One of the reasons they've changed,
:35:59. > :36:05.the Scottish Parliament was an exciting, dynamic place,
:36:06. > :36:07.the Labour Party, the SNP, the Greens, Donald Dewar
:36:08. > :36:11.was the First Minister, It was full of ideas
:36:12. > :36:17.for how to run Scotland, how to fix social issues,
:36:18. > :36:19.make some difference And I think what I'm disappointed
:36:20. > :36:26.by is that has transitioned away from that under Nicola Sturgeon,
:36:27. > :36:30.to an obsession about It's about not
:36:31. > :36:42.doing the day job. It's all about how can we manoeuvre
:36:43. > :36:45.for another referendum. You know, my father came from Fife,
:36:46. > :36:48.a Labour stronghold, where it stood for social justice,
:36:49. > :36:53.for social mobility and education. Education is what Scotland is known
:36:54. > :36:58.around the world for. Well, I'm afraid under
:36:59. > :37:01.Nicola Sturgeon we saw the literacy It has been a disaster,
:37:02. > :37:07.because Nicola Sturgeon can only And whatever your politics are,
:37:08. > :37:16.Ruth Davidson is providing No one knows what Labour stands
:37:17. > :37:21.for any more in Scotland, and it's either the SNP,
:37:22. > :37:24.or it's Ruth Davidson, and she has done a fantastic job
:37:25. > :37:27.in making sure... You may laugh, but the people
:37:28. > :37:30.of Scotland are already showing that they agree,
:37:31. > :37:32.that they want to put people in Parliament
:37:33. > :37:34.and the Scottish Parliament to deliver policies that make
:37:35. > :37:36.a difference to their lives every Why was the Tory leaflet put
:37:37. > :37:44.through my door on last week's local government elections
:37:45. > :37:47.all about independence or not? It was all about the
:37:48. > :37:49.constitutional issues. Nothing at all with
:37:50. > :37:54.local government. And yet the leaflet from the SNP had
:37:55. > :37:56.a detailed programme of what they wanted to do
:37:57. > :38:00.in local government. I wasn't out canvassing
:38:01. > :38:02.in the local governments But I think, you know,
:38:03. > :38:07.the choice is clear. The SNP, the Scottish Parliament
:38:08. > :38:12.have had a lot of extra powers They can use them in all sorts
:38:13. > :38:16.of ways, imaginatively, They could put up the taxes,
:38:17. > :38:21.as some people would like, if they wanted to, but it's
:38:22. > :38:23.not about that. I'm afraid it's about independence,
:38:24. > :38:27.and all of us can go hang. How can the Conservative Party tell
:38:28. > :38:33.Nicola Sturgeon she's not getting on with the day job
:38:34. > :38:35.when they themselves aren't getting the day job done,
:38:36. > :38:37.when they're calling In response to what Emily said,
:38:38. > :38:52.this lady voiced her concerns about the Labour Party and why
:38:53. > :38:56.she can't support them. And your answer was, to paraphrase,
:38:57. > :38:58.we think that it's wrong I'd like to say that that's exactly
:38:59. > :39:04.the kind of attitude that's got you into the sorry state of affairs
:39:05. > :39:09.that you are in now in Scotland. I want a question from
:39:10. > :39:17.Amelia Dole, please. As a young person, why should I find
:39:18. > :39:20.the UK an attractive place As a student I'm quite worried
:39:21. > :39:30.about university and how universities are funded,
:39:31. > :39:32.and also schemes like You are worried about the way
:39:33. > :39:38.that the vote went. I speak to a lot of students
:39:39. > :39:46.who are worried about all sorts of things I suspect they shouldn't
:39:47. > :39:49.be worried about. Because we've got a long time now,
:39:50. > :39:53.one, two, maybe three, four, five years ahead of us to arrange
:39:54. > :39:56.how we will be leaving the European Union and make
:39:57. > :40:00.transition arrangements. I suspect most of the things
:40:01. > :40:03.you are worried about won't change at all during that period
:40:04. > :40:05.and probably won't change beyond it. We had arrangements
:40:06. > :40:07.with universities in Europe long Things like Erasmus,
:40:08. > :40:14.etc, may well continue. You will still be able to study
:40:15. > :40:18.abroad in exactly the same way, in the same way that my mother went
:40:19. > :40:21.to university in France in the 60s, and that was before
:40:22. > :40:23.the European Union. I don't imagine there will be any
:40:24. > :40:27.difference in terms of freedom If you are working, there will be
:40:28. > :40:31.differences that will come under... A young person becomes middle-aged,
:40:32. > :40:33.becomes an older person, and she will become an older person,
:40:34. > :40:36.a middle-aged person, I think one of the things that's
:40:37. > :40:44.attractive, it's going to, I hope, make the UK a much more successful
:40:45. > :40:47.economy in the long term. It makes us much more
:40:48. > :40:48.outward looking. It makes us able to make free trade
:40:49. > :40:52.arrangements around the world. It allows us to take a leadership
:40:53. > :40:54.role in global free trade, We'll be able to sit on the WTO
:40:55. > :41:01.and talk about global free trade in a way that we can't inside
:41:02. > :41:04.the European Union because it's But also something quite interesting
:41:05. > :41:07.about European politics. Over the last year or so there has
:41:08. > :41:11.been a sense of relief in Europe because the so-called populists
:41:12. > :41:12.haven't gained control in any countries, haven't
:41:13. > :41:16.won any elections. So I quite often hear people saying,
:41:17. > :41:19.the UK has become a place I don't want to live,
:41:20. > :41:21.it's anti-immigration, fascist, this, that,
:41:22. > :41:23.because it's changed I don't think this is true,
:41:24. > :41:29.and if you look across to Europe you see dynamics that
:41:30. > :41:31.are maybe more frightening. Can you have imagined 34%
:41:32. > :41:34.of the UK voting for Ukip? You saw 34% of France
:41:35. > :41:39.voting for Le Pen. The same in Holland
:41:40. > :41:41.and in Austria where... So, you know, I think
:41:42. > :42:00.that in political terms, the UK is just as liberal
:42:01. > :42:03.and pleasant a place to live And I think that in economic terms
:42:04. > :42:07.and in global freedom terms, you will find that your life unfolds
:42:08. > :42:10.in a pretty good way. Emily Thornberry, do you think
:42:11. > :42:14.the UK will be as attractive a place I think that it all depends
:42:15. > :42:20.on how we do the deal. I think that there are many,
:42:21. > :42:23.many choices that we need to make and I don't think that it starts
:42:24. > :42:26.well if you begin by having just come back from seeing the Queen
:42:27. > :42:29.and standing on the steps of Number Ten Downing St
:42:30. > :42:31.and accusing those who you are supposed to be coming
:42:32. > :42:34.to an agreement with of plotting against Britain and wanting
:42:35. > :42:37.to bring down the government Once you say those things,
:42:38. > :42:43.they cannot be unsaid. And what concerns me
:42:44. > :42:45.is that at the moment we seem to be arguing
:42:46. > :42:48.about what it is that we are This is ten months
:42:49. > :42:51.after the referendum. I'm very worried that this
:42:52. > :42:53.Prime Minister does not seem to understand that the first
:42:54. > :42:56.priority for any government is the The second priority
:42:57. > :43:00.must be the economy. Particularly those who are just
:43:01. > :43:02.starting out in life, have been well educated,
:43:03. > :43:05.have done their best at school, who are setting out in life
:43:06. > :43:10.and the world turns around and says, not at the moment, we are going
:43:11. > :43:13.to Brexit, there aren't any That really frightens me,
:43:14. > :43:19.and we should be thinking, every Prime Minister until now has
:43:20. > :43:22.put the economy as a priority and yet our current Prime Minister
:43:23. > :43:25.seems to be more interested in whether we're leaving
:43:26. > :43:27.the European Court of Justice or not, and how much she can insult
:43:28. > :43:31.the people who we are supposed to be negotiating with,
:43:32. > :43:33.instead of looking after our economy Do you have an answer
:43:34. > :43:37.to the question Jeremy Corbyn Under Labour, would we
:43:38. > :43:40.inevitably leave the EU? Listen, we've had a referendum,
:43:41. > :43:44.and the referendum We went out and we said
:43:45. > :43:48.to people, look, think The question is, would we, under
:43:49. > :43:56.Labour, inevitably leave the EU? Given that we had a referendum
:43:57. > :43:59.and the public have told us that they want to leave,
:44:00. > :44:01.then we have to leave. And the question then is,
:44:02. > :44:04.how do we do it and what kind of continuing relationship do
:44:05. > :44:07.we have, and how close do we remain to the European Union,
:44:08. > :44:10.in order to make sure that we look The way we are going at the moment,
:44:11. > :44:32.we will have either no Joanna Cherry. 62% of people in
:44:33. > :44:38.Scotland voted to remain part of the European Union. It's the United
:44:39. > :44:42.Kingdom. So what is your answer? My answer to the question is that I
:44:43. > :44:45.don't think the United Kingdom will be an attractive place for a young
:44:46. > :44:50.person to live after Brexit. I'll tell you why. Let's start with the
:44:51. > :44:55.universities. I've got two major universities in my constituency. Her
:44:56. > :45:00.yet watt has already announced redundancies and cuts citing Brexit
:45:01. > :45:05.and the effect of the Tory policies. I speak to students at the two
:45:06. > :45:10.Universities, they tell me they are deeply worried about research
:45:11. > :45:17.funding, erazz news and students not wanting to come to study in Scotland
:45:18. > :45:19.and the UK and they are worried about academics turning down job
:45:20. > :45:25.offers because they are worried about the position of EU nationals.
:45:26. > :45:32.That is the most important is it? No, it's jobs and the economy. An
:45:33. > :45:36.institute told us if there is a hard Brexit, Scotland will over the next
:45:37. > :45:41.decade lose 80,000 jobs and on average our wages will be ?2,000
:45:42. > :45:45.lower per annum. Again, not attractive for a young person.
:45:46. > :45:49.Emily, you are absolutely right, there are other pars of the UK that
:45:50. > :45:54.voted to leave the European Union. The UK as a whole voted to leave the
:45:55. > :45:57.European Union, that is the point. And we are democrats at the end of
:45:58. > :46:02.the day and a United Kingdom's made a decision and we should abide by
:46:03. > :46:06.the instructions. If you let me develop the point. The compromised
:46:07. > :46:11.proposal would have benefitted the whole of the UK and it was that the
:46:12. > :46:14.UK should stay in the single market. It wasn't clear around the debate of
:46:15. > :46:18.the referendum that all leaves wanted to leave the single market.
:46:19. > :46:24.We advocated the whole of the UK should stay in the single market.
:46:25. > :46:29.Those proposals, despite having support across-the-board in Europe
:46:30. > :46:34.and support from leading academics such as the former European Court of
:46:35. > :46:40.Justice judge, they were binned by the Tories without being considered
:46:41. > :46:46.at all. Ben Wallace, you were in favour of remain? I'm in favour of
:46:47. > :46:50.free movement of people and barrier free trade with our partners of
:46:51. > :46:56.England. That's why I'm a unionist in the United Kingdom. Look,
:46:57. > :46:59.pre-Brexit and post-Brexit the UK will be a great place to live
:47:00. > :47:03.because it's a wonderful country. APPLAUSE.
:47:04. > :47:08.It's full of diverse, different cultures. It's a powerful economy,
:47:09. > :47:13.whatever way you cut it in the world. We live, all of us in some of
:47:14. > :47:20.the highest living standards on earth compared to many other people.
:47:21. > :47:25.We are a civilised, educated, multilingual often nowadays country
:47:26. > :47:31.and I'm proud to live in it. Joanna Cherry says Scottish people will
:47:32. > :47:36.lose 80,000 jobs and people will be ?2,000 worse off. We need to see the
:47:37. > :47:41.outcome of the negotiations. Joanna Cherry forgets that a million people
:47:42. > :47:45.voted for Brexit in Scotland. There is a large number of people that
:47:46. > :47:49.voted remain, they were not nationalists, they were unionists
:47:50. > :47:53.and the number of people that voted Brexit were actually nationalists,
:47:54. > :47:58.one of her own MSPs voted for Brexit. The reality is the UK has
:47:59. > :48:02.wonderful opportunities. We'll be able to work I think in many parts
:48:03. > :48:07.of Europe and the rest of the world. There'll be other opportunities and
:48:08. > :48:11.will come along if others don't, in other parts of the world, because
:48:12. > :48:16.we'll be freer in some areas we haven't been in the past. I think we
:48:17. > :48:20.have a great future and Britain has the power and the people to make a
:48:21. > :48:23.great future for this country. So I don't think anyone should worry and
:48:24. > :48:27.I definitely don't think people should talk down this country,
:48:28. > :48:31.Emily, about whether or not it's going to be a disaster. It's going
:48:32. > :48:37.to be OK, we are going to get there, and in the long-term... How do you
:48:38. > :48:41.know? We hear this... I believe in the British people. The man on the
:48:42. > :48:44.corner there? Yes. I worry that the arrogance coming out of Ben Wallace
:48:45. > :48:49.and the Conservative Party might actually cost the UK dearly. There's
:48:50. > :48:53.no guarantee that we will be better off outside the European Union. The
:48:54. > :48:58.UK may be a prosperous country now, but that may not necessarily
:48:59. > :49:03.continue to exist. It's worth remembering Glasgow was once the
:49:04. > :49:06.second city of the empire, now 40% of people live below the poverty
:49:07. > :49:09.line there. Why do you think the Tories in
:49:10. > :49:12.Government will be held responsible for that because whoever is in
:49:13. > :49:16.Government, according to Emily Thornberry, would be negotiating
:49:17. > :49:21.Brexit, because that's what the referendum decided? Yes, true. But I
:49:22. > :49:24.think the discourse coming out of the Conservative Party has been
:49:25. > :49:27.leaning much further to a hard Brexit than what Keir Starmer is
:49:28. > :49:32.talking about, for example, and there has to be a point at which you
:49:33. > :49:36.say the cost of leaving the European Union is greater than the potential
:49:37. > :49:41.- yes, the cost of leaving is not as good as the benefits we have if we
:49:42. > :49:44.were to stay. David Hayman? I'm really glad that a young person
:49:45. > :49:46.asked this question. I think my generation have made a mess of this
:49:47. > :49:54.world. APPLAUSE.
:49:55. > :49:59.And the future... The future no longer belongs to us, the future is
:50:00. > :50:02.yours. You have a vision. It's interesting that 76% of retired
:50:03. > :50:07.people in Scotland voted against independence. The majority of people
:50:08. > :50:12.who voted for Brexit are elderly people. You voted not to leave
:50:13. > :50:15.Europe because you are internationalists. We currently have
:50:16. > :50:19.something like just under four million young people in this country
:50:20. > :50:24.living below the poverty line. If that's how it is at the moment, it's
:50:25. > :50:27.going to be a hell of a lot worse after we've left Europe all together
:50:28. > :50:34.because the conditions will not be to your advantage in any way at all.
:50:35. > :50:38.Now, I run a humanitarian organisation and I work with
:50:39. > :50:42.projects in some of the poorest countries like Palestine, Malawi and
:50:43. > :50:49.Afghanistan. We are feeding people, educating kids and setting up
:50:50. > :50:55.women's workshops. They say to me, you live in the sixth richest
:50:56. > :51:00.country in the world, you must see no desperation. I laugh and say, we
:51:01. > :51:04.have four million people below the poverty line. That means they'll go
:51:05. > :51:08.to sleep with nothing in their bellies, never get a birthday
:51:09. > :51:12.present, never get a Christmas present, no-one will ever buy them
:51:13. > :51:15.an ice-cream, no-one will ever take them to see Star Wars, there is a
:51:16. > :51:18.poverty of opportunity for young people in this country and because
:51:19. > :51:20.of Brexit, it's going to get a hell of a lot worse.
:51:21. > :51:28.APPLAUSE. OK. I'll come to you and then you.
:51:29. > :51:34.What is the assumption that brex sit bad and should be held up, Scottish
:51:35. > :51:40.independence is good because it brings lots of benefits. If we voted
:51:41. > :51:45.for Scottish independence and it was held up by people like some on the
:51:46. > :51:53.panel here, what would you think of that, Joanna? People saying, well,
:51:54. > :51:57.we didn't really want independence, if it went 52-48, if they didn't
:51:58. > :52:00.want independence it should have been scrutinised by the Scottish
:52:01. > :52:06.Parliament, it should be debated by all parties... Well, this comes
:52:07. > :52:10.back... I'll come back to what I said earlier. Scottish Government
:52:11. > :52:16.proposed a compromise which would have united some of the people who
:52:17. > :52:20.voted to leave with those who voted to remain by proposing staying in
:52:21. > :52:26.the single market. That's never been seriously looked at. Keir Starmer,
:52:27. > :52:29.for whom I have a degree of admiration, produced six red lines
:52:30. > :52:33.which are tantamount the staying in the single market. I'm afraid it was
:52:34. > :52:35.closing the stable door after the horse bolted because the Labour
:52:36. > :52:40.Party voted to trigger Article 50. Now, the issues around the
:52:41. > :52:47.implications of leaving the European Union were not properly debated
:52:48. > :52:53.during the EU referendum. Many lies were told... You can't have it both
:52:54. > :52:58.ways, can you? Many lies were told by members of the leave campaign
:52:59. > :53:01.who're now Cabinet Ministers. This general election is all about
:53:02. > :53:06.scrutinising. Do you want to rerun the referendum? No, I don't want a
:53:07. > :53:09.rerun of the referendum. I want the British Government to respect the
:53:10. > :53:14.fact that people in Scotland voted to remain and, at the very least, to
:53:15. > :53:17.look at the compromised proposal put forward, rather than treating it
:53:18. > :53:22.with the derision with which it has been met. You, Sir? I must take
:53:23. > :53:24.issue with Ben claiming that after Brexit Britain's going to be OK.
:53:25. > :53:39.When did OK just become enough? There is this assumption that those
:53:40. > :53:43.people within Europe is automatically going to be better
:53:44. > :53:47.off. If you are a young Spanish person under 25 facing nearly 50%
:53:48. > :53:49.unemployment, you may be asking yourself actually whether the
:53:50. > :53:54.European Union is working for you. If you are a Greek who is finding it
:53:55. > :53:59.particularly hard to get through life, you may be asking yourself
:54:00. > :54:03.whether the European Union is all it's up to be for them and there's
:54:04. > :54:07.this assumption that by leaving, somehow we are automatically going
:54:08. > :54:09.to be worse off and that it's guaranteed that if you stay in the
:54:10. > :54:14.European Union everything's going to be fine. There's poverty in the
:54:15. > :54:17.European Union, there's poverty in nearly every country. It doesn't
:54:18. > :54:22.disappear if you join the EU. Can you answer the point that Joanna
:54:23. > :54:26.Cherry made, why is nobody giving serious thought to the idea of
:54:27. > :54:36.remaining in the single market? Well, I think... I can answer that.
:54:37. > :54:41.Why should she answer it? Because I'm Shadow Foreign Secretary. We've
:54:42. > :54:49.looked at this very carefully in the Labour Party and the difficulty is,
:54:50. > :54:53.is that because we are not Spain, we are not Greece, we have a highly
:54:54. > :54:57.developed complicated large economy and there's great difficulty in us
:54:58. > :55:01.remaining in the single market and leaving the European Union because
:55:02. > :55:03.our economy is so complex. We need to have our own Free Trade
:55:04. > :55:07.Agreement. Nothing else will work. We have looked into this and it's to
:55:08. > :55:10.the advantage of Britain therefore to have a Free Trade Agreement but
:55:11. > :55:15.one that works for our economy first and foremost. Can I just say this.
:55:16. > :55:20.I'm fed up of Conservatives telling us that because we are worried about
:55:21. > :55:24.the way in which they're proceeding with these so-called negotiations,
:55:25. > :55:28.that we are somehow or other not patriotic. How dare they. We are
:55:29. > :55:32.really worried about this country and we want to make sure we get the
:55:33. > :55:35.best deal. That means the best deal for our economy so youngsters get a
:55:36. > :55:40.chance. You, Sir, up there on the gangway? I
:55:41. > :55:52.wanted to pick up on something that David Hayman was saying. I don't
:55:53. > :56:01.doubt doubt the sincerity of what you said and I'm 27, I don't know if
:56:02. > :56:07.that means I'm the lower generation than you. I resent the fact that you
:56:08. > :56:11.said we are not outward looking. The world isn't just Europe. We are
:56:12. > :56:15.stagnating. There's austerity being imposed on people far beyond
:56:16. > :56:19.Westminster, there are parts of the world, Commonwealth, India, New
:56:20. > :56:23.Zealand, that we abandoned at the creation of the European Union that
:56:24. > :56:27.we should be engaging with and there are horizons on the edge of Europe
:56:28. > :56:29.and some of us on the leave side, thank you very much, are
:56:30. > :56:33.internationalists and outward looking. I can't invite you to
:56:34. > :56:38.answer because our time is up, I'm afraid. Unless you want to answer.
:56:39. > :56:42.I'm told you can because we have a bit more time than we thought.
:56:43. > :56:47.David? It came into my head. A quote from one of my great heroes no
:56:48. > :56:52.longer with us, a spiritual, moral and political leader, Nelson
:56:53. > :56:57.Mandela. He said two things. They always ring true with me. He said,
:56:58. > :57:01.what counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived, but the
:57:02. > :57:07.difference we make to the lives of others. The second thing he said
:57:08. > :57:09.was, overcoming poverty is not a task of charity, it's an act of
:57:10. > :57:18.justice. APPLAUSE.
:57:19. > :57:27.Does that answer your point? That wasn't a direct answer. Fair enough.
:57:28. > :57:30.That's admirable and I haven't seen anything that disagrees with that.
:57:31. > :57:36.We have to stop, I'm afraid. Our time is up. Norwich next week for
:57:37. > :57:42.Question Time, Belfast the week after that. Remember those special
:57:43. > :57:45.programmes I mentioned earlier. Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn
:57:46. > :57:50.separately with a Question Time audience in York on Friday 2nd June,
:57:51. > :57:54.chance to question the Prime Minister and Leader of the
:57:55. > :58:00.Opposition and then Nicola Sturgeon and Tim Farron, Sunday 4th June here
:58:01. > :58:03.in Edinburgh. So if you want to quiz the party leaders, details of how to
:58:04. > :58:09.apply are there on the screen now. You can go to our website or you can
:58:10. > :58:12.call the number on the screen. If you are listening on Five Live,
:58:13. > :58:18.the debate goes on on Question Time extra time. My thanks to this panel
:58:19. > :58:21.and to all of you from Edinburgh who came here to take part. Until then
:58:22. > :58:48.from Question Time, good night. The race is on to complete
:58:49. > :58:51.London's most ambitious railway. I don't think we've seen anything
:58:52. > :58:54.to this scale and complexity before. It gets the nerves going,
:58:55. > :58:58.the adrenaline pumping. This is one of the busiest
:58:59. > :59:04.roads in London. We've got to get the track in,
:59:05. > :59:07.we've got to get the platform, and then we've got to get out of
:59:08. > :59:11.the way cos the trains are coming.