30/11/2017

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0:00:04 > 0:00:09Tonight, we are in Scarborough, and welcome to Question Time.

0:00:16 > 0:00:18And with us tonight, a one-time Labour leadership hopeful,

0:00:18 > 0:00:23now leading the charge against Brexit, Chuka Umunna.

0:00:23 > 0:00:26The Conservative Minister for Prisons, Sam Gyimah.

0:00:26 > 0:00:31The newly elected leader of Ukip, Henry Bolton.

0:00:31 > 0:00:35The deputy editor of the Sunday Times, Sarah Baxter.

0:00:35 > 0:00:37And the former finance minister of Greece, who tried and failed

0:00:37 > 0:00:41to negotiate a way out of debt with the EU and accused them of

0:00:41 > 0:00:46naked blackmail, Yanis Varoufakis.

0:00:59 > 0:01:00Thank you.

0:01:00 > 0:01:01Thank you very much.

0:01:01 > 0:01:04As ever, of course, at home you can have your say.

0:01:04 > 0:01:07Our hashtag is BBCQT on Twitter and Facebook.

0:01:07 > 0:01:10You can text us on 83981, you can push the red button to see

0:01:10 > 0:01:12what others are saying.

0:01:12 > 0:01:14And just before we take our first question, we did say

0:01:14 > 0:01:17Priti Patel, the former International Development Secretary,

0:01:17 > 0:01:21would be here on the panel.

0:01:21 > 0:01:23But after her resignation, she resigned, I'm glad

0:01:23 > 0:01:27Sam Gyimah has managed to get here in her place.

0:01:27 > 0:01:29And one other thing, if you were watching last

0:01:29 > 0:01:33week's Question Time, you know it was rather curtailed.

0:01:33 > 0:01:35You might like to know that the audience member

0:01:35 > 0:01:40who collapsed is back home and feeling much better.

0:01:40 > 0:01:41Good.

0:01:41 > 0:01:43Let's take our first question, and it comes

0:01:43 > 0:01:49from Joanne Ribey, please.

0:01:49 > 0:01:52How far would Donald Trump have to go before our government formally

0:01:52 > 0:01:55rescinded his invitation for a state visit?

0:01:55 > 0:01:58Yanis Varoufakis.

0:01:58 > 0:02:03He has already crossed the line, some time ago.

0:02:03 > 0:02:09APPLAUSE

0:02:09 > 0:02:12He is the President of the United States of America,

0:02:12 > 0:02:15which is a great ally of the United Kingdom.

0:02:15 > 0:02:18But he's not a great ally of his own people.

0:02:18 > 0:02:23And this visit would be greatly divisive, in this country.

0:02:23 > 0:02:30It would create an incongruity in the House, the Houses of Parliament.

0:02:30 > 0:02:35And there is absolutely no reason why he should be

0:02:35 > 0:02:36invited at this stage.

0:02:36 > 0:02:39Would you formally rescind an invitation that was formally

0:02:39 > 0:02:40given on behalf of the Queen?

0:02:40 > 0:02:41Yes, absolutely.

0:02:41 > 0:02:42You'd withdraw it.

0:02:42 > 0:02:43All right.

0:02:43 > 0:02:48Sam Gyimah.

0:02:48 > 0:02:51I think Yanis makes a very good point.

0:02:51 > 0:02:54What Donald Trump did recently, I think has

0:02:54 > 0:02:57definitely crossed a line.

0:02:57 > 0:03:02And it takes great bravery to stand up to your enemies.

0:03:02 > 0:03:05It takes even more bravery to stand up to your friends.

0:03:05 > 0:03:10And I think Theresa May was right to rebuke him

0:03:10 > 0:03:14on Twitter for his comments, in his retweets of Britain First.

0:03:14 > 0:03:15We are a tolerant and decent country.

0:03:15 > 0:03:18We are open.

0:03:18 > 0:03:20And I think it's right that she did that.

0:03:20 > 0:03:25In terms of whether or not Donald Trump comes to this country,

0:03:25 > 0:03:27I am personally deeply uncomfortable about it.

0:03:27 > 0:03:32I am deeply uncomfortable because he is deliberately divisive,

0:03:32 > 0:03:37and this would be divisive at a time that we are trying

0:03:37 > 0:03:38to unite our country.

0:03:38 > 0:03:42The invitation has been sent, it has been accepted.

0:03:42 > 0:03:45It's above my pay grade in terms of what happens next,

0:03:45 > 0:03:49but I think I am deeply uncomfortable about it.

0:03:49 > 0:03:55APPLAUSE

0:03:55 > 0:03:56Chuka.

0:03:56 > 0:03:59I think the first thing to say, I think we've got to acknowledge

0:03:59 > 0:04:02that the US is bigger than Donald Trump and there

0:04:02 > 0:04:05are a huge number of Americans - I have American family -

0:04:05 > 0:04:07who find him as abhorrent as we do.

0:04:07 > 0:04:10Let's just be frank about it.

0:04:10 > 0:04:12This guy is a racist, he is a misogynist,

0:04:12 > 0:04:13he's an Islamophobe.

0:04:13 > 0:04:19APPLAUSE

0:04:19 > 0:04:22I mean, he campaigned promoting hate, and what he's now doing

0:04:22 > 0:04:23in retweeting Britain First is basically doing so

0:04:23 > 0:04:26in our country as well.

0:04:26 > 0:04:29And I think what I find most concerning is this kind of sense,

0:04:29 > 0:04:32"Oh, well, it's Donald Trump".

0:04:32 > 0:04:35You know, "This is what he does, it's another shocking

0:04:35 > 0:04:36thing that he does".

0:04:36 > 0:04:38But the problem with that is you are normalising hatred

0:04:38 > 0:04:41if you approach it in that way, just because he is the

0:04:41 > 0:04:43President of the USA.

0:04:43 > 0:04:48And I think if you normalise hatred, and the kinds of things that he has

0:04:48 > 0:04:51said, the kind of things that he stands for and promotes,

0:04:51 > 0:04:54you are going down a very dangerous road indeed,

0:04:54 > 0:04:57which is why I think the Prime Minister should

0:04:57 > 0:04:59be big enough to say, "Look, I got this wrong.

0:04:59 > 0:05:02"In fact, I probably shouldn't have invited him in the first place".

0:05:02 > 0:05:04Rescind the invitation.

0:05:04 > 0:05:06Carrying on with it makes us look needy,

0:05:06 > 0:05:08and I fear normalises hatred, which is not

0:05:08 > 0:05:11what we should be doing.

0:05:11 > 0:05:16APPLAUSE

0:05:16 > 0:05:17It doesn't normalise it.

0:05:17 > 0:05:19The Prime Minister rebuked him on Twitter and today

0:05:19 > 0:05:20she went even further.

0:05:20 > 0:05:23She's made it very clear that, yes, the United States as a country

0:05:23 > 0:05:26is our ally but Donald Trump retweeting those tweets

0:05:26 > 0:05:29from Britain First is unacceptable.

0:05:29 > 0:05:33And I think that is what we want our Prime Minister to be doing.

0:05:33 > 0:05:34Why not disinvite him?

0:05:34 > 0:05:35That is the ultimate rebuke.

0:05:35 > 0:05:41That would make a statement to the world.

0:05:41 > 0:05:44Is there a slight problem that we are dependent

0:05:44 > 0:05:47on the United States for a trade deal when we leave the EU?

0:05:47 > 0:05:49Well, I wish we weren't in that situation.

0:05:49 > 0:05:53We are in that situation.

0:05:53 > 0:05:56Let me get to the point.

0:05:56 > 0:05:59Would you take the risk of offending him so much that he said,

0:05:59 > 0:06:02and started tweeting, "Forget Britain and the deal"?

0:06:02 > 0:06:05He stood on the basis, David, of America first.

0:06:05 > 0:06:08The idea that he's suddenly going to ride to the rescue

0:06:08 > 0:06:13if suddenly all our trade goes, is for the stars.

0:06:13 > 0:06:14Henry Bolton.

0:06:14 > 0:06:18First of all, he's crossed a line, perhaps, in some people's minds,

0:06:18 > 0:06:21but this is a state visit.

0:06:21 > 0:06:25This is not a personal invitation from Her Majesty to Donald Trump.

0:06:25 > 0:06:28This is a state visit.

0:06:28 > 0:06:31The United States and Great Britain have a long and shared history.

0:06:31 > 0:06:35We have supported each other through thick and thin.

0:06:35 > 0:06:38And like any family, we are going to have points in time

0:06:38 > 0:06:41when we have disagreements and where we don't have disagreements,

0:06:41 > 0:06:45when we get on very well and when we don't get on very well.

0:06:45 > 0:06:47And it is about taking care of that relationship,

0:06:47 > 0:06:49and that is an important thing.

0:06:49 > 0:06:51This is not just the United States President.

0:06:51 > 0:06:54He is also commander-in-chief and he is a significant

0:06:54 > 0:06:57leader in the world, of the world's largest superpower.

0:06:57 > 0:07:02Now, what I find interesting about this is that Britain First,

0:07:02 > 0:07:07by the way, is proscribed by my own party.

0:07:07 > 0:07:10You cannot join Ukip if you have been a member of Britain First,

0:07:10 > 0:07:13along with a number of right-wing parties.

0:07:13 > 0:07:18However, there is an underlying issue here which is,

0:07:18 > 0:07:21what is actually going on and why has this become such a big issue?

0:07:21 > 0:07:25And that's another debate, an important debate.

0:07:25 > 0:07:27Sorry, why is what going on?

0:07:27 > 0:07:29Why are people so concerned about this?

0:07:29 > 0:07:31About what, about Trump's retweeting?

0:07:31 > 0:07:35Why is Trump able to be divisive about this?

0:07:35 > 0:07:39There are two things about this.

0:07:39 > 0:07:42There is the fact that Britain First are an outrageous right-wing party,

0:07:42 > 0:07:45but there is also, which I suspect he didn't know, and I hope

0:07:45 > 0:07:48that we don't see this again.

0:07:48 > 0:07:50But the other aspect of it is that

0:07:50 > 0:07:54people are concerned about a rising tide of Islam in their communities.

0:07:54 > 0:07:58Now, we cannot ignore that.

0:07:58 > 0:07:59And I am not anti-Islamic.

0:07:59 > 0:08:01I have got a lot of Muslim friends.

0:08:01 > 0:08:03I think that's just playing up to Trump's bait.

0:08:03 > 0:08:06It's absolutely true.

0:08:06 > 0:08:07That is appalling.

0:08:07 > 0:08:12You do not deal with hate by inciting hate.

0:08:12 > 0:08:13I'm not inciting hate.

0:08:13 > 0:08:14No, I'm not.

0:08:14 > 0:08:18APPLAUSE

0:08:18 > 0:08:22What I'm actually saying is that we have to bear in mind

0:08:22 > 0:08:27that there are communities in this country and across the

0:08:27 > 0:08:29European Union that have concerns about the rate

0:08:29 > 0:08:32at which their communities are changing.

0:08:32 > 0:08:34And some international organisations that deal with security

0:08:34 > 0:08:37and fully recognise...

0:08:37 > 0:08:40I just don't get...

0:08:40 > 0:08:42How do you go from peddling racism, misogyny, hate, and carrying

0:08:42 > 0:08:46on with the pattern of behaviour we see from the President

0:08:46 > 0:08:49of the United States, to where you're coming from,

0:08:49 > 0:08:50is beyond me.

0:08:50 > 0:08:51Hold on.

0:08:51 > 0:08:52Sarah Baxter.

0:08:52 > 0:08:54Well, I think Henry's talking nonsense.

0:08:54 > 0:08:55He's just responding...

0:08:55 > 0:09:00APPLAUSE

0:09:00 > 0:09:04In a really, really wrong way to a very crass action

0:09:04 > 0:09:05by the American President.

0:09:05 > 0:09:08That said, I think that Donald Trump should come here.

0:09:08 > 0:09:10He is the American President, and we should all tell him

0:09:10 > 0:09:13what we think about retweeting such vile, racist stuff.

0:09:13 > 0:09:16I don't think that Britain should be turned into a giant safe space

0:09:16 > 0:09:19where we can't allow the President come.

0:09:19 > 0:09:22Let him come, you tell him what we think of his tweet,

0:09:22 > 0:09:25and he can go home with our words of condemnation about it

0:09:25 > 0:09:27ringing in his ears.

0:09:27 > 0:09:33The man in the red pullover.

0:09:33 > 0:09:37Isn't Trump just right wing politics without the filter?

0:09:37 > 0:09:40Trump has never had a filter, and he does betray himself somewhat.

0:09:40 > 0:09:43I must say, I think it's very unfortunate that he hasn't found it

0:09:43 > 0:09:46in his heart to congratulate Meghan Markle and Prince Harry

0:09:46 > 0:09:51on their engagement but can retweet horrible racist stuff.

0:09:51 > 0:09:57The woman up there on the left.

0:09:57 > 0:10:01I've just got a question for the leader of the Ukip and I'm

0:10:01 > 0:10:03just wondering why he doesn't show the same loyalty to the EU

0:10:03 > 0:10:06as he does to America, and why we shouldn't stick

0:10:06 > 0:10:08by them as family?

0:10:08 > 0:10:11And also, don't we always get told that we are to ignore

0:10:11 > 0:10:16bullies to stop them from continuing to bully?

0:10:16 > 0:10:19The person in the back row.

0:10:19 > 0:10:23The very back row.

0:10:23 > 0:10:27As a teacher, all the time I have to be a role model for my students,

0:10:27 > 0:10:29as do my colleagues, and I think it's appalling

0:10:29 > 0:10:32that we are in the situation today where we have the leader of the most

0:10:32 > 0:10:35powerful nation in the world being able to offend so many people

0:10:35 > 0:10:38and to actually create tension, to create aggression and to create

0:10:38 > 0:10:42the very things that we, our society, are trying to prevent.

0:10:42 > 0:10:46How on earth can we justify anything like that in the 21st century?

0:10:46 > 0:10:48I don't understand why we can even try and explain it or,

0:10:48 > 0:10:50as Mr Bolton's tried to do, excuse it.

0:10:50 > 0:10:54You can't excuse that sort of behaviour.

0:10:54 > 0:11:01Henry Bolton, do you want to reply?

0:11:01 > 0:11:02I'm not excusing it.

0:11:02 > 0:11:05What I said was that I think there is an underlying issue as well

0:11:05 > 0:11:06that needs to be addressed.

0:11:06 > 0:11:08But not like that.

0:11:08 > 0:11:13And in that respect, I did say I do hope that we don't

0:11:13 > 0:11:15see that from Donald Trump again.

0:11:15 > 0:11:16I said that.

0:11:16 > 0:11:19But there is also a deeper issue here that we do

0:11:19 > 0:11:20need to have a frank, honest and decent

0:11:20 > 0:11:23conversation about.

0:11:23 > 0:11:26The President of the United States is supposed to be the leader

0:11:26 > 0:11:27of the free world.

0:11:27 > 0:11:31And there is a reason for that, because the United States has been

0:11:31 > 0:11:32a beacon for freedom, tolerance, democracy,

0:11:32 > 0:11:34the values that this country cherishes so much.

0:11:34 > 0:11:37He diminishes and undermines that role and that responsibility

0:11:37 > 0:11:41when he does the sorts of things we see him doing.

0:11:41 > 0:11:44And that is why we've got to call this out.

0:11:44 > 0:11:46Henry, you've got this sort of allusion you're

0:11:46 > 0:11:48making to other things.

0:11:48 > 0:11:50We do deal with extremism in this country.

0:11:50 > 0:11:53We have got our troops fighting people like Daesh and putting

0:11:53 > 0:11:55young lives on the line, but do not confuse that

0:11:55 > 0:11:58with inciting hatred, division in our society.

0:11:58 > 0:12:02That is not the same.

0:12:02 > 0:12:08APPLAUSE

0:12:08 > 0:12:10I know that, Sam, because I've done it.

0:12:10 > 0:12:11I've done it, Sam, I know.

0:12:11 > 0:12:14What I'm saying is that there is a decent conversation we can have

0:12:14 > 0:12:17about the concern people have at the rate at which their

0:12:17 > 0:12:18communities are changing.

0:12:18 > 0:12:22There is no reason why we can't have that discussion.

0:12:22 > 0:12:25But there is a profound difference, if I may say, between addressing

0:12:25 > 0:12:28concerns that people have, and speaking to their worst fears,

0:12:28 > 0:12:36trying to incite hatred out of fears, in order to put them

0:12:36 > 0:12:42into the use, to invest them into a wave of discord

0:12:42 > 0:12:47which on the one hand gives people like Donald Trump political power,

0:12:47 > 0:12:54while at the very same time worsening the causes of the discord

0:12:54 > 0:12:56and the causes of concern within those communities.

0:12:56 > 0:13:01One last point.

0:13:01 > 0:13:06Of course Britain is going to have to deal with Mr Trump.

0:13:06 > 0:13:10But to issue this invitation and to fete him in London

0:13:10 > 0:13:14at Buckingham Palace and the House of Commons, that is an honour

0:13:14 > 0:13:19which goes beyond the demands of proper relationship

0:13:19 > 0:13:23between the Prime Minister of this country and the President

0:13:23 > 0:13:24of the United States.

0:13:24 > 0:13:28APPLAUSE

0:13:28 > 0:13:29Can I go back to the questioner?

0:13:29 > 0:13:31What do you think of what you heard?

0:13:31 > 0:13:32I agree with Sarah.

0:13:32 > 0:13:33I think he should come.

0:13:33 > 0:13:39I think he's poison, but he is the democratically elected

0:13:39 > 0:13:43President of the United States, and I think he ought to come

0:13:43 > 0:13:45here and face people and be asked tough questions.

0:13:45 > 0:13:51I think non-platforming, I'm not comfortable with that.

0:13:51 > 0:13:54I think he should come.

0:13:54 > 0:13:57Of course, he might not want to come if he thinks he's

0:13:57 > 0:13:58going to be protested against.

0:13:58 > 0:14:01He doesn't seem to like people protesting against him very much.

0:14:01 > 0:14:05One last point, you, sir.

0:14:05 > 0:14:08I was just going to say that I totally agree.

0:14:08 > 0:14:10For me, we're not just inviting Donald Trump,

0:14:10 > 0:14:12we are inviting the democratically elected President of one

0:14:12 > 0:14:15of our largest allies.

0:14:15 > 0:14:18And just to come back on Chuka's point, if the figures I've seen

0:14:18 > 0:14:22recently are accurate, we have actually a trade surplus

0:14:22 > 0:14:26at the moment with America.

0:14:26 > 0:14:28Although it's a fairly modest sum of money involved.

0:14:28 > 0:14:32Whereas obviously we have something in the region of 65-70 billion trade

0:14:32 > 0:14:39deficit on an annual basis with the EU, I believe.

0:14:39 > 0:14:42Well, you may be running ahead of the programme,

0:14:42 > 0:14:46as we may be about to come to that.

0:14:46 > 0:14:49So let's pause there and go on to our next question.

0:14:49 > 0:14:52Just before we do, we are going to be in Swansea next Thursday

0:14:52 > 0:14:57and the week after that we're going to be in Barnsley.

0:14:57 > 0:15:00Swansea and then Barnsley.

0:15:00 > 0:15:03On screen is how to apply to come to Question Time,

0:15:03 > 0:15:05which I hope you may be able to do.

0:15:05 > 0:15:08Let's go on to Leslie Fisher's question, please.

0:15:08 > 0:15:15Which way would the country have voted if they knew the divorce bill

0:15:15 > 0:15:21would be £50 billion?

0:15:21 > 0:15:24Which way would the country have voted if they knew the divorce bill

0:15:24 > 0:15:27would be £50 billion?

0:15:27 > 0:15:29Chuka Umunna.

0:15:29 > 0:15:31I think the country would have voted to remain.

0:15:31 > 0:15:32Let me explain why.

0:15:32 > 0:15:48APPLAUSE

0:15:48 > 0:15:50It's interesting actually, the audience here is very

0:15:50 > 0:15:52representative of the country because there are strong

0:15:52 > 0:15:54views on both sides.

0:15:54 > 0:15:57I'll tell you the reason I say I think we would have voted

0:15:57 > 0:16:00for remain is that the vote leave campaign and its head

0:16:00 > 0:16:02Dominic Cummings was absolutely clear that they wouldn't have won

0:16:02 > 0:16:05the referendum if they hadn't made or seemingly made this pledge to put

0:16:05 > 0:16:07£350 million extra per week into the NHS.

0:16:07 > 0:16:10Obviously, if you are going to be paying a large divorce bill,

0:16:10 > 0:16:13you are not going to have that money to put into the NHS.

0:16:13 > 0:16:16And that is why I think that the divorce bill is very

0:16:16 > 0:16:19significant because you've got these two new facts which are right,

0:16:19 > 0:16:20we didn't really know about in 2016.

0:16:20 > 0:16:23Big divorce bill, Boris Johnson didn't say anything about that,

0:16:23 > 0:16:24that wasn't emblazoned across that bus.

0:16:24 > 0:16:27And now you are not going to get that £350 million extra

0:16:27 > 0:16:29per week going to the NHS.

0:16:29 > 0:16:34And in a way, I think it's symbolic for what is happening on Brexit.

0:16:34 > 0:16:37I think a lot of people bought this thing, maybe if I make

0:16:37 > 0:16:40the analogy of a car, nice shiny Audi, leather seats,

0:16:40 > 0:16:43alloy wheels, all the added extras, now you've got the car,

0:16:43 > 0:16:46you are sitting in this thing, it's actually not an Audi,

0:16:46 > 0:16:50it's a clapped out old banger and looks like it might break down.

0:16:50 > 0:16:54There should be nothing inevitable about you having to buy that car

0:16:54 > 0:16:58if at the end of the process it's not going anywhere.

0:16:58 > 0:17:02So that is why I think this is important and I think we should

0:17:02 > 0:17:04have an open mind about what happens on all of this.

0:17:04 > 0:17:06What would you like to see?

0:17:06 > 0:17:07APPLAUSE.

0:17:07 > 0:17:10What would you like to see happen on all of this, as you put it?

0:17:10 > 0:17:12Nobody on this panel will say anything different,

0:17:12 > 0:17:16they want to see the best deal for the British people.

0:17:16 > 0:17:19Increasingly, I think that Brexit in the terms that it was sold

0:17:19 > 0:17:22to the British people is proving impossible to deliver.

0:17:22 > 0:17:26Now, what we have to do, as Parliamentarians,

0:17:26 > 0:17:29is try and deliver it in the terms that it was sold, try and give

0:17:29 > 0:17:31you that Audi, if you like.

0:17:31 > 0:17:33But you can't change a banger into an Audi.

0:17:33 > 0:17:35No, but you want to stop Brexit, don't you?

0:17:35 > 0:17:38That is your principal political ambition at the moment, to stop it?

0:17:38 > 0:17:40I certainly wish it wasn't happening...

0:17:40 > 0:17:43I didn't say that, I said you actually want to stop it happening?

0:17:43 > 0:17:45I would prefer it wasn't happening but...

0:17:45 > 0:17:47I know that, you want to stop it happening?

0:17:47 > 0:17:52I want to stop a hard Brexit but at the moment we haven't

0:17:52 > 0:17:53exhausted this process.

0:17:53 > 0:17:56I can't say for certain what is going to happen but I wish

0:17:56 > 0:18:00it wasn't happening.

0:18:00 > 0:18:03I think it will be bad for this country, bad

0:18:03 > 0:18:05for our economy and yes, look we've got problems in this

0:18:05 > 0:18:07country but I don't think leaving the European Union

0:18:07 > 0:18:09is going to solve them.

0:18:09 > 0:18:12Sam Gyimah, Let's just go back to Lesley's question,

0:18:12 > 0:18:14if people knew it was going to be £50 billion would they

0:18:14 > 0:18:15have voted that way.

0:18:15 > 0:18:17What do you say?

0:18:17 > 0:18:19I think looking at the polls, people would have voted exactly how

0:18:19 > 0:18:22they voted in the referendum.

0:18:22 > 0:18:25I voted remain because I thought it was going to be costly

0:18:25 > 0:18:27and complicated, but I think it's patronising to say to the British

0:18:27 > 0:18:34people what somehow they didn't go into the referendum with their eyes

0:18:34 > 0:18:38wide-open and somehow Chuka Umunna says it's better than all of that.

0:18:38 > 0:18:41knows better than all of them.

0:18:41 > 0:18:44I didn't say that, you are taking words out of my mouth.

0:18:44 > 0:18:45That is not what I said.

0:18:45 > 0:18:48So I think people went into it with their eyes wide-open,

0:18:48 > 0:18:49there is a price to pay.

0:18:49 > 0:18:51Now, what is disingenuous obviously and my position is,

0:18:51 > 0:18:56the referendum's happened, we can either keep refighting

0:18:56 > 0:19:00the referendum or we can move forward and do the best that we can

0:19:00 > 0:19:04and that's why I'm committed to delivering this referendum.

0:19:04 > 0:19:07It's disingenuous as Chuka is saying, that the £50 billion

0:19:07 > 0:19:10and no figure's actually been published by the government,

0:19:10 > 0:19:14this is the figure that's being speculated about,

0:19:14 > 0:19:21it's disingenuous to say, if we pay a sum of money between now

0:19:21 > 0:19:24and transition which we would have paid anyway for all the benefits

0:19:24 > 0:19:34that we already receive, without really knowing

0:19:34 > 0:19:37will be conditional, we'll probably hand it over

0:19:37 > 0:19:38only if we get what we want,

0:19:38 > 0:19:40that somehow is not right.

0:19:40 > 0:19:44So Chuka is trying to have it both ways, we would have paid the money

0:19:44 > 0:19:46anyway but we wouldn't get it for the NHS.

0:19:46 > 0:19:47No, no, no.

0:19:47 > 0:19:49David Davis said £50 billion was rubbish a few

0:19:49 > 0:19:50weeks ago and wasn't

0:19:50 > 0:19:53there a Government White Paper that says, as we'll no longer be members

0:19:53 > 0:19:56of the market we won't be required to make vast contributions?

0:19:56 > 0:19:59Is £50 billion not a vast contribution?

0:19:59 > 0:20:03The Government hasn't put forward a figure,

0:20:03 > 0:20:08this £50 billion is speculation in the press.

0:20:08 > 0:20:13What I am saying is, it's disingenuous to say that

0:20:13 > 0:20:17if we were to pay a divorce settlement, that we would have paid

0:20:17 > 0:20:22anyway if we were still in the EU and part of settling our accounts

0:20:22 > 0:20:25to make sure that we got the deal that we wanted given

0:20:25 > 0:20:27that the British people have voted to leave, that is wrong.

0:20:27 > 0:20:29I'll come to you, then you?

0:20:29 > 0:20:36Britain is a country that respects contract law and it was never

0:20:36 > 0:20:39going to be the case that it would not pay its dues

0:20:39 > 0:20:44to the European Union.

0:20:44 > 0:20:46I really do not believe that the good people who voted

0:20:46 > 0:20:49in favour of Brexit, I'm saying this as a Remainor,

0:20:49 > 0:20:53were ever fooled about that or ever expected not to pay the bill.

0:20:53 > 0:21:00Britain's not a strategic defaulter but this is irrelevant.

0:21:00 > 0:21:02The overall effects of Brexit will have nothing to do

0:21:02 > 0:21:06with the divorce bill.

0:21:06 > 0:21:12The amount of money sounds like a lot but it's puny compared

0:21:12 > 0:21:15to the present value of the effects of Brexit on this country over

0:21:15 > 0:21:19the next five, ten, 20 years.

0:21:19 > 0:21:22So what we should be concentrating upon is,

0:21:22 > 0:21:28firstly, as democrats, to respect the referendum outcome,

0:21:28 > 0:21:31even though I'm on the losing side and I'm very, very saddened

0:21:31 > 0:21:36by the fact that Britain is leaving the EU, while at the very same time,

0:21:36 > 0:21:39minimising what is a process which I can only describe

0:21:39 > 0:21:40as a dog's Brexit.

0:21:40 > 0:21:42APPLAUSE.

0:21:42 > 0:21:43Right.

0:21:43 > 0:21:45Sarah?

0:21:45 > 0:21:48I'll come to you in a moment, let me go to one or two members

0:21:48 > 0:21:51of the audience then we'll come to you and Henry.

0:21:51 > 0:21:55The man in the white shirt and I would like to two back

0:21:55 > 0:21:56to the questioner Lesley as well.

0:21:56 > 0:21:57You, there?

0:21:57 > 0:22:00Absolutely, even if we accept that it's £50 billion,

0:22:00 > 0:22:04it's a fact whether you voted remain or leave, it's a fact

0:22:04 > 0:22:08that we pay a net contribution per year of £9 billion

0:22:08 > 0:22:11and the European Commission has talked about a 40-year payment

0:22:11 > 0:22:14period, we don't know what that is, but let's assume it's 40,

0:22:14 > 0:22:17even 30 years, that's just over £1 billion a year.

0:22:17 > 0:22:19We pay £9 billion net, that is a fact.

0:22:19 > 0:22:20Whatever side you're on.

0:22:20 > 0:22:22The second thing is, if it's £50 billion,

0:22:22 > 0:22:27not only does that appear a bargain when you look at what we pay each

0:22:27 > 0:22:30year, but this isn't a gift for a trade deal,

0:22:30 > 0:22:34this isn't us saying, well we are going to give you this,

0:22:34 > 0:22:37then you are going to give us a trade deal.

0:22:37 > 0:22:39This is us complying with our contractual obligations

0:22:39 > 0:22:40which we were always going to do.

0:22:40 > 0:22:41The key point is...

0:22:41 > 0:22:44Didn't the Foreign Secretary say they could whistle for their money?

0:22:44 > 0:22:46No, that is absolutely incorrect.

0:22:46 > 0:22:49What Boris Johnson said, and I would ask Chuka

0:22:49 > 0:22:52to retract his comment that he made today on Twitter, what he said

0:22:52 > 0:22:55about that was that they can go and whistle about an extortionate

0:22:55 > 0:22:58amount, he didn't put the full figure out there on Twitter.

0:22:58 > 0:23:00He talked about an extortionate amount, when he talks about go

0:23:00 > 0:23:03whistle and that has to be taken into account.

0:23:03 > 0:23:04All right.

0:23:04 > 0:23:06Let me go to the questioner, Lesley, what do you think?

0:23:06 > 0:23:10I think a lot of us on both sides voted on the basis of insufficient

0:23:10 > 0:23:12detailed information and I do think that...

0:23:12 > 0:23:14APPLAUSE.

0:23:14 > 0:23:20I do think that maybe it was our own responsibility

0:23:20 > 0:23:23to look into it in a lot more detail than we did.

0:23:23 > 0:23:26But I do think now people are thinking a lot more deeply.

0:23:26 > 0:23:29We have had a lot more information come out since we took the vote.

0:23:29 > 0:23:32I voted for remain and I agree with Chuka completely.

0:23:32 > 0:23:34I wish we'd never had the flaming referendum.

0:23:34 > 0:23:38All right.

0:23:38 > 0:23:40APPLAUSE.

0:23:40 > 0:23:44If both sides voted on incomplete information, the result

0:23:44 > 0:23:46might have been the same when they get full information.

0:23:46 > 0:23:48Sarah Baxter?

0:23:48 > 0:23:50I also voted remain.

0:23:50 > 0:23:51A lot of remainers here tonight.

0:23:51 > 0:23:53I think Chuka's completely wrong.

0:23:53 > 0:23:56Nobody voted for the referendum on the basis of £350 million

0:23:56 > 0:24:00for the NHS, everyone knew that was rubbish

0:24:00 > 0:24:02right from the start.

0:24:02 > 0:24:05The next thing is, Chuka says he doesn't want a hard Brexit.

0:24:05 > 0:24:08Now, if we say oh we are not paying that money...

0:24:08 > 0:24:09No, no.

0:24:09 > 0:24:11That is the quickest way to get a hard Brexit.

0:24:11 > 0:24:18Britain's always been honourable about its about its obligations.

0:24:18 > 0:24:21Britain's always been honourable about its obligations.

0:24:21 > 0:24:24Yanis Varoufakis is right, we haven't always had a good deal back.

0:24:24 > 0:24:27So I would like to make that payment contingent on getting a decent deal

0:24:27 > 0:24:31from the EU and not handing over the money without some sort of quid

0:24:31 > 0:24:34pro quo so we'll see what we get down the line in a trade deal.

0:24:34 > 0:24:37Meanwhile, I think a lot of the money is going to pay

0:24:37 > 0:24:39eurocrats and MEPs for their pension obligations, including Nigel Farage

0:24:39 > 0:24:43who is going to be supported for life by the rest of us.

0:24:43 > 0:24:44So anyway...

0:24:44 > 0:24:46I thought I would throw that in.

0:24:46 > 0:24:49Henry Bolton?

0:24:49 > 0:24:54It's interesting isn't it from the point of the referendum

0:24:54 > 0:24:57to the day we leave the European Union, presuming

0:24:57 > 0:25:02we leave in March 2019, we will have paid £22 billion

0:25:02 > 0:25:08to the European Union and then there's the £50 billion

0:25:08 > 0:25:11or thereabouts, which is £77 billion and how much further is it

0:25:11 > 0:25:17going to go up because also we see that in the budget,

0:25:17 > 0:25:20that Philip Hammond's allowed for, I think it's £3 billion every year

0:25:20 > 0:25:22with no end date to it.

0:25:22 > 0:25:25So what does this actually total up to?

0:25:25 > 0:25:28To follow on, on Chuka's analogy, would you consider buying a second

0:25:28 > 0:25:31hand car when you don't even know what make, colour or type of engine

0:25:31 > 0:25:34it has, what condition it's in, and yet you are still putting

0:25:34 > 0:25:35the amount of money on the table.

0:25:35 > 0:25:37Do you object to the way the Government's

0:25:37 > 0:25:38negotiating at the moment?

0:25:38 > 0:25:41I do, yes and in fact I would like to come

0:25:41 > 0:25:43back to Yanni's point, the dog's Brexit.

0:25:43 > 0:25:47We gave the Government a mandate to negotiate.

0:25:47 > 0:25:49The unfortunate fact of the matter is that

0:25:49 > 0:25:51our Government seems incapable of negotiating.

0:25:51 > 0:25:54APPLAUSE.

0:25:54 > 0:26:00At the moment, probably not very many people in this room have read

0:26:00 > 0:26:04the position papers that have been sent by London to Brussels

0:26:04 > 0:26:07but there is nothing, nothing concrete in them whatsoever.

0:26:07 > 0:26:10That's problem number one.

0:26:10 > 0:26:13Problem number two is that they have no negotiating objectives, it's not

0:26:13 > 0:26:16clear what the British Government is trying to achieve.

0:26:16 > 0:26:20On the 24th June, 2016, they should have started work on that.

0:26:20 > 0:26:21They didn't.

0:26:21 > 0:26:22We've lost a lot of time.

0:26:22 > 0:26:25That is a problem for the Government and now what the Government

0:26:25 > 0:26:35is doings is trying to move takes on by offering £50 billion.

0:26:35 > 0:26:38is doings is trying to move talks on by offering £50 billion.

0:26:38 > 0:26:40They're trying to use your tax.

0:26:40 > 0:26:42That's the equivalent of about £1,650 on everybody's

0:26:42 > 0:26:43income tax bill.

0:26:43 > 0:26:46And then, to say that this was foreseen, of course it wasn't

0:26:46 > 0:26:48foreseen, we didn't foresee that our Government would be

0:26:48 > 0:26:51so incompetent as to not be able to negotiate any other way.

0:26:51 > 0:26:52It was foreseen.

0:26:52 > 0:26:55In fact the Sunday Times said it was going, there was a secret

0:26:55 > 0:26:58deal to have this bill of 40 billion to 50 billion euros

0:26:58 > 0:27:02back in September and a lot of what we have heard ever since has

0:27:02 > 0:27:03been pure noise.

0:27:03 > 0:27:10The EU asked for £90 billion, we said £20 billion,

0:27:10 > 0:27:13we are splitting the difference, a lot of this is happening

0:27:13 > 0:27:15in negotiations behind-the-scenes by officials, not by politicians

0:27:15 > 0:27:16and I think a lot of...

0:27:16 > 0:27:19I have say, I worked in Brussels for three years.

0:27:19 > 0:27:20So you know how that works?

0:27:20 > 0:27:23I do and I've negotiated for the European Union as well.

0:27:23 > 0:27:24Not for Britain.

0:27:24 > 0:27:25Who against?

0:27:25 > 0:27:27I'm not going to say, but for two countries.

0:27:27 > 0:27:30The other day, I met with a very high level European Commission

0:27:30 > 0:27:33official who is involved in these negotiations and his comment

0:27:33 > 0:27:38was that they after years of dealing with a country -

0:27:38 > 0:27:44Britain - that has always provided good, sound logical

0:27:44 > 0:27:46common-sense in all its dealings with the European Union has now

0:27:46 > 0:27:49totally disappointed them.

0:27:49 > 0:27:51OK.

0:27:51 > 0:27:54We are dealing with a Government that doesn't know what it's doing.

0:27:54 > 0:27:56The man in the blue shirt?

0:27:56 > 0:28:03We are all on about this referendum.

0:28:03 > 0:28:09The actual vote was so near and the majority so narrow,

0:28:09 > 0:28:15the Parliamentary election was so narrow and such a small

0:28:15 > 0:28:18majority, she's damned if she does and she's damned if she doesn't

0:28:18 > 0:28:24because we've always got this nit-picking

0:28:24 > 0:28:28going on and I would imagine them politicians over in Brussels

0:28:28 > 0:28:30are laughing at how we are conducting ourselves.

0:28:30 > 0:28:34I voted to leave.

0:28:34 > 0:28:37We are going to leave, get on with it, OK.

0:28:37 > 0:28:38APPLAUSE.

0:28:38 > 0:28:41And you, Sir?

0:28:41 > 0:28:45I would like to ask Chuka, two of the things he's

0:28:45 > 0:28:52said to far tonight, one is that he disagrees

0:28:52 > 0:28:54said so far tonight, one is that he disagrees

0:28:54 > 0:28:55with the £50 billion.

0:28:55 > 0:28:57I never said that.

0:28:57 > 0:28:59And the second being that he disagrees with the lack

0:28:59 > 0:29:01of detail that came out at the beginning.

0:29:01 > 0:29:05If you disagree with the fact that we are going to pay this

0:29:05 > 0:29:07£50 billion, will you please tell us, in your opinion,

0:29:07 > 0:29:09what that £50 billion is going to get spent

0:29:09 > 0:29:13on because I don't know and I can't make an opinion on that until I know

0:29:13 > 0:29:16what that is going to be, but nobody is telling me that.

0:29:16 > 0:29:19I'm really glad you asked me the question, Sir, because I'm not

0:29:19 > 0:29:21saying we are opposed to meeting our legal liabilities

0:29:21 > 0:29:22to the European Union.

0:29:22 > 0:29:26If you are a member of a club, you rack up a bill at the bar,

0:29:26 > 0:29:28you can't just walk out of it without settling it.

0:29:28 > 0:29:35So I don't have a problem with that.

0:29:35 > 0:29:38But the second thing I'd say is this, the reason I bring up

0:29:38 > 0:29:41the £350 million extra per week for the NHS, which this

0:29:41 > 0:29:43has a direct effect on, is not to relitigate the referendum,

0:29:43 > 0:29:45it's actually to hold people to account for

0:29:45 > 0:29:46the promises that were made.

0:29:46 > 0:29:49This is the big difference actually, if you like,

0:29:49 > 0:29:52between where we are at now and where we were last year.

0:29:52 > 0:29:54When we were debating this in the referendum last year,

0:29:54 > 0:29:56it was based on the hypotheticals on both sides.

0:29:56 > 0:29:58None of us knew exactly what was going to happen.

0:29:58 > 0:30:00What we now see are facts.

0:30:00 > 0:30:02We know facts are arising out of this negotiation process and,

0:30:02 > 0:30:06as the lady said at the back, this is far much more complex

0:30:06 > 0:30:07than anybody thought it would be.

0:30:07 > 0:30:14You said something about the number reremainers here and I think

0:30:14 > 0:30:17You said something about the number of remainers here and I think

0:30:17 > 0:30:18there are two types of remainers.

0:30:18 > 0:30:20There are remainers like Chuka who're still stuck

0:30:20 > 0:30:21in the groove of fighting.

0:30:21 > 0:30:22I'm not.

0:30:22 > 0:30:23APPLAUSE.

0:30:23 > 0:30:26And there are remainers who think the best thing

0:30:26 > 0:30:28we can do for our country, as that gentleman over there said,

0:30:28 > 0:30:32is to recognise that now, it is us versus the EU27.

0:30:32 > 0:30:33It's not leave versus remain.

0:30:33 > 0:30:37And therefore we should be looking at our national interests and seeing

0:30:37 > 0:30:41how best we support it.

0:30:41 > 0:30:46Of course, both sides in the referendum campaign came up

0:30:46 > 0:30:48with some wild exaggerations that we all knew the £350 million

0:30:48 > 0:30:49was hugely illustrative.

0:30:49 > 0:30:56But it is a fact and I say this as a remainor,

0:30:56 > 0:30:58But it is a fact and I say this as a remainer,

0:30:58 > 0:31:01when we come out of the EU, eventually we'll be paying a lot

0:31:01 > 0:31:03less to the EU than we do now.

0:31:03 > 0:31:07That is true.

0:31:07 > 0:31:10And so, Chuka, what we should be doing is not fight the referendum

0:31:10 > 0:31:13but actually focus on how we can get the best deal for our country.

0:31:13 > 0:31:14OK, enough.

0:31:14 > 0:31:17Your government has taken the best deal off the table.

0:31:17 > 0:31:18That is the problem, Sam.

0:31:18 > 0:31:21If you're going to rip us out of the single market

0:31:21 > 0:31:23and the customs union, which you don't need to do

0:31:23 > 0:31:26if you leave the European Union, that's the best deal off the table.

0:31:26 > 0:31:27The woman there, please.

0:31:27 > 0:31:31I don't know how you can say that the British public went into it

0:31:31 > 0:31:33with their eyes open, given the lies and misinformation

0:31:33 > 0:31:34that were spread during the referendum.

0:31:34 > 0:31:36Also, I have to disagree with Sarah's point,

0:31:36 > 0:31:39because as somebody who works in the NHS with boots

0:31:39 > 0:31:41on the floor in our hospitals, I can tell you that staff

0:31:41 > 0:31:43and patients were influenced by the 350 million thing.

0:31:43 > 0:31:45Henry Bolton, one last word.

0:31:45 > 0:31:48Your spokesman on this accused the negotiators,

0:31:48 > 0:31:51I've got the quote here, of being quislings.

0:31:51 > 0:31:54Is that how you think of the people negotiating?

0:31:54 > 0:31:58I wouldn't put it quite as quislings, no.

0:31:58 > 0:31:59Ukip did.

0:31:59 > 0:32:02Ukip's man in charge of this did.

0:32:02 > 0:32:03You're the boss of Ukip.

0:32:03 > 0:32:05Should he withdraw this, then?

0:32:05 > 0:32:07We could tone quislings down slightly.

0:32:07 > 0:32:11But let me answer this.

0:32:11 > 0:32:12Quislings is the same as traitor.

0:32:12 > 0:32:14Yes.

0:32:14 > 0:32:16Let's tone that down somewhat.

0:32:16 > 0:32:21But the point is that, indeed, there is some tendency towards that.

0:32:21 > 0:32:28Because, to answer this gentleman's question, OK,

0:32:28 > 0:32:32two of the things that some of this 50 billion is going to be spent

0:32:32 > 0:32:34on are projects relating to free wifi in Greek hotels.

0:32:34 > 0:32:38Sorry, Yanis.

0:32:38 > 0:32:41And the other thing is, can you believe it, £450,000,

0:32:41 > 0:32:45which is not much out of 50 billion, I grant you, on projects

0:32:45 > 0:32:47to challenge Euroscepticism.

0:32:47 > 0:32:49Now that's what we're going to be paying for,

0:32:49 > 0:32:50ladies and gentlemen.

0:32:50 > 0:32:54And what I'm saying here is if we're negotiating to agree to go forward

0:32:54 > 0:32:58with paying for things like that, then Gerard Batten has a point.

0:32:58 > 0:33:00You've already committed to paying for those things,

0:33:00 > 0:33:01however ludicrous they may seem to you.

0:33:01 > 0:33:09And you do not want to default on your commitments with legal...

0:33:09 > 0:33:16This country's government should do exactly what it's

0:33:16 > 0:33:18got a mandate to do, take us out.

0:33:18 > 0:33:21And the only way that we're going to come out of this

0:33:21 > 0:33:23on the trajectory that you suggest, Sam, which is in the interests

0:33:23 > 0:33:26of this country, is defending the interests of this country

0:33:26 > 0:33:29and making sure, to do that, we need to make sure we exercise

0:33:29 > 0:33:30a bit of British steel.

0:33:30 > 0:33:31And we're not doing that.

0:33:31 > 0:33:32All right.

0:33:32 > 0:33:33Enough, enough, enough.

0:33:33 > 0:33:34We must move on.

0:33:34 > 0:33:37We're over halfway through and every week we discuss this.

0:33:37 > 0:33:40And those of you who are here know that we discuss it every week

0:33:40 > 0:33:42because you will have heard it going on.

0:33:42 > 0:33:44Pearl Bent, let's hear from you.

0:33:44 > 0:33:46Should we prioritise getting aid to Yemen,

0:33:46 > 0:33:51rather than pandering to the Saudis and supplying them with arms?

0:33:51 > 0:33:54Should we prioritise getting aid to Yemen rather than pandering

0:33:54 > 0:33:55to the Saudis and supplying them with arms?

0:33:55 > 0:33:57Sarah Baxter.

0:33:57 > 0:34:01Well, the Yemen certainly needs our aid and what's going

0:34:01 > 0:34:05on there is an absolute scandal.

0:34:05 > 0:34:08And the country has been caught up in really a proxy war

0:34:08 > 0:34:11between the Saudis and the Iranians.

0:34:11 > 0:34:14And there is a big contest going on between the Sunni

0:34:14 > 0:34:19and Shia Muslims, and not one that we often hear talked about.

0:34:19 > 0:34:22That said, Theresa May, I think, is right to be in Saudi Arabia

0:34:22 > 0:34:25and visiting that country.

0:34:25 > 0:34:28I think that at the moment it has a new leader,

0:34:28 > 0:34:31a very young leader.

0:34:31 > 0:34:34He goes by the name of MBS, Mohammad Bin Salman.

0:34:34 > 0:34:40He is both interesting and quite a potentially dangerous figure.

0:34:40 > 0:34:42This is not a moment to be alienating MBS.

0:34:42 > 0:34:44It's a time to be watching rather warily in which

0:34:44 > 0:34:49direction he is going.

0:34:49 > 0:34:51He says he's for human rights, particularly for women,

0:34:51 > 0:34:53which is a good thing.

0:34:53 > 0:34:57But at the same time he's locking up members of his own House of Saud

0:34:57 > 0:35:00in the Ritz-Carlton hotel and extorting money off them,

0:35:00 > 0:35:04ostensibly as a way of curing corruption.

0:35:04 > 0:35:07Should we be providing three quarters of a billion of arms

0:35:07 > 0:35:12to the Saudi government?

0:35:12 > 0:35:15I think this is not the time to make an enemy of Saudi Arabia.

0:35:15 > 0:35:19I don't approve of that...

0:35:19 > 0:35:20So let's keep giving them the bombs.

0:35:20 > 0:35:21No, I do not approve...

0:35:21 > 0:35:25There's only one thing that we know.

0:35:25 > 0:35:26Have we learned nothing from Iraq?

0:35:26 > 0:35:27Have we learned nothing?

0:35:27 > 0:35:31Do we want to have more blood on our hands from the Middle East?

0:35:31 > 0:35:35There's one thing worse than what's going on in Saudi Arabia

0:35:35 > 0:35:39at the moment, and that would be Saudi going in the Isis-jihadist

0:35:39 > 0:35:43direction, and it is entirely possible that

0:35:43 > 0:35:47Saudi Arabia could go that way.

0:35:47 > 0:35:50And right now, I think it's better that they remain our ally.

0:35:50 > 0:35:52So we give them arms to kill more people in Yemen,

0:35:52 > 0:35:54to create more Islamic fundamentalism in Yemen,

0:35:54 > 0:35:58to destroy whatever is left of the image of Western democracy

0:35:58 > 0:36:01throughout the Middle East, to perpetuate a humanitarian crisis

0:36:01 > 0:36:06by becoming accomplices to the Saudis, who are blockading

0:36:06 > 0:36:10existing aid packages going to the people of Yemen that

0:36:10 > 0:36:12are starving, all that in order not to undermine our

0:36:12 > 0:36:17relationship with the Saudis.

0:36:17 > 0:36:23APPLAUSE

0:36:23 > 0:36:26I don't believe the UK should have any further foreign

0:36:26 > 0:36:28entanglements in the Middle East, aid, military or otherwise.

0:36:28 > 0:36:32I think we should finally withdraw for good from that region entirely.

0:36:32 > 0:36:34Sam Gyimah.

0:36:34 > 0:36:36Can you answer his point?

0:36:36 > 0:36:39The Prime Minister is travelling in the Middle East at the moment

0:36:39 > 0:36:43because we have a lot of important relationships there.

0:36:43 > 0:36:47We are a member of Nato, a leading member of the UN Security Council.

0:36:47 > 0:36:52We are one of the military powers in the world.

0:36:52 > 0:36:55We have an international role to play for good.

0:36:55 > 0:36:59In terms of the specific question about Yemen,

0:36:59 > 0:37:03which is a humanitarian catastrophe, I think it was right

0:37:03 > 0:37:06for the Prime Minister, while she was on her travels,

0:37:06 > 0:37:09to actually ask for the blockade to be lifted so commercial vehicles

0:37:09 > 0:37:13could get in there and you have vital supplies sent

0:37:13 > 0:37:16to the people of Yemen.

0:37:16 > 0:37:19The UK Government does not supply arms to Saudi Arabia.

0:37:19 > 0:37:21There are UK companies...

0:37:21 > 0:37:22You just lease them, you mean?

0:37:22 > 0:37:244.6 billion is the price tag of the lease.

0:37:24 > 0:37:31Very smart.

0:37:31 > 0:37:34There are UK companies that manufacture arms and sell them.

0:37:34 > 0:37:39Obviously they have export licences that are granted by the government.

0:37:39 > 0:37:42Those export licences are very carefully policed

0:37:42 > 0:37:45so that they are not allowed to sell our weapons where

0:37:45 > 0:37:49they are going to be used for repression,

0:37:49 > 0:37:53or where they are going to be used directly to harm people.

0:37:53 > 0:37:55Does the government approve of the use of the weapons

0:37:55 > 0:38:00that we have sold to Saudi Arabia being used in the Yemen?

0:38:00 > 0:38:03Do you have agents there making sure that these particular bombs cannot

0:38:03 > 0:38:04be used on these particular targets?

0:38:04 > 0:38:08Because that would be amazing.

0:38:08 > 0:38:11You should bring them back to negotiate Brexit.

0:38:11 > 0:38:13There are strict terms...

0:38:13 > 0:38:14APPLAUSE

0:38:14 > 0:38:20There he goes again.

0:38:20 > 0:38:23There are strict terms around the export licences,

0:38:23 > 0:38:25and we have relationships with a lot of these.

0:38:25 > 0:38:28I think what we've got to do is, UK jobs depend on this,

0:38:28 > 0:38:32is to make sure that at the highest level our foreign policy,

0:38:32 > 0:38:35our Foreign Secretary, our Defence Secretary,

0:38:35 > 0:38:38are diplomatically engaging with these countries

0:38:38 > 0:38:41so that our diplomatic and foreign objectives are realised.

0:38:41 > 0:38:43But the gentleman's point about moving out of these countries

0:38:43 > 0:38:47completely I don't think is right.

0:38:47 > 0:38:50Can I just put the question that I asked you?

0:38:50 > 0:38:52You say the government issues licences, and issues them with care,

0:38:52 > 0:38:54where it believes...

0:38:54 > 0:38:56Strict controls.

0:38:56 > 0:38:58Strict controls, right.

0:38:58 > 0:39:01Given that the arms have been sent to Saudi Arabia in huge quantities

0:39:01 > 0:39:03with strict controls, one assumes you can control

0:39:03 > 0:39:07their use, otherwise there's no point in having these controls.

0:39:07 > 0:39:10Do you think the British government, by allowing these weapons

0:39:10 > 0:39:14to be used in Yemen, is implicitly supporting

0:39:14 > 0:39:17Saudi policy in Yemen, and indeed allowing weapons made

0:39:17 > 0:39:21in this country to go there?

0:39:21 > 0:39:23Not at all.

0:39:23 > 0:39:26Not at all, I don't agree.

0:39:26 > 0:39:28There were weapons sold under certain strict

0:39:28 > 0:39:31conditions to Saudi Arabia.

0:39:31 > 0:39:34I do not know what weapons Saudi Arabia is using...

0:39:34 > 0:39:36All weapons we know are constantly having to be repaired.

0:39:36 > 0:39:38They have experts out there explaining how

0:39:38 > 0:39:39they should be used.

0:39:39 > 0:39:40It's an industry.

0:39:40 > 0:39:42And you can pull back from it or you can...

0:39:42 > 0:39:43I'm sorry.

0:39:43 > 0:39:46Can you commit to their non-use in Yemen?

0:39:46 > 0:39:49Can you say, as a government minister, that those bombs are not

0:39:49 > 0:39:50being thrown in Yemen?

0:39:50 > 0:39:51Can you say that?

0:39:51 > 0:39:52I can't comment on that.

0:39:52 > 0:39:55Well, that is the question.

0:39:55 > 0:39:58You only have to look at the television and see

0:39:58 > 0:40:00those children starving, dying of diphtheria and diseases

0:40:00 > 0:40:01that no child should die from.

0:40:01 > 0:40:05It's a disgrace.

0:40:05 > 0:40:08Chuka Umunna.

0:40:08 > 0:40:11I'll come back to you, but I'll go to Chuka Umunna.

0:40:11 > 0:40:14I think there is a big question mark over whether the arms

0:40:14 > 0:40:18which are being purchased, albeit from British companies,

0:40:18 > 0:40:23whether they are being used to repress people.

0:40:23 > 0:40:26And therefore I think at the very least that the government should

0:40:26 > 0:40:28pause and investigate what is happening here.

0:40:28 > 0:40:30I actually think there is a bigger question

0:40:30 > 0:40:32here about our relationship with the Saudi Arabian

0:40:32 > 0:40:36regime overall.

0:40:36 > 0:40:40Because the traditional argument that is used against perhaps,

0:40:40 > 0:40:47how could I say, deploying a more robust approach to that relationship

0:40:47 > 0:40:50is that we've got strategic military and defence interests in the region,

0:40:50 > 0:40:56and they are part of protecting those interests.

0:40:56 > 0:40:58But increasingly I've found over the years,

0:40:58 > 0:41:00you know, if you look at so many of the problems

0:41:00 > 0:41:03that we are faced with, Saudi Arabia has very often been

0:41:03 > 0:41:05an incubator for those problems.

0:41:05 > 0:41:07If you look at the extreme strain of Islamism...

0:41:07 > 0:41:10Well, I'm probably not describing it correctly,

0:41:10 > 0:41:15but the more conservative strain of Islamic thought, Wahhabism,

0:41:15 > 0:41:19that was incubated in Saudi Arabia, and that is one of the things that

0:41:19 > 0:41:22has led to many of the problems in the region.

0:41:22 > 0:41:24So I do question whether our approach, our foreign policy

0:41:24 > 0:41:28approach to Saudi Arabia, not just under this government,

0:41:28 > 0:41:30frankly, but under different governments, is actually

0:41:30 > 0:41:31the right one.

0:41:31 > 0:41:34And I certainly don't think we should be putting jobs

0:41:34 > 0:41:35before human rights.

0:41:35 > 0:41:39I have a real issue with that.

0:41:39 > 0:41:39APPLAUSE

0:41:39 > 0:41:43You, sir, up there.

0:41:43 > 0:41:45The problem with if we cease providing weapons and military

0:41:45 > 0:41:49training to Saudi Arabia is what happens to that void?

0:41:49 > 0:41:52Someone will fill it, and that someone will be Russia,

0:41:52 > 0:41:56China, a country of that nature who will come in to supply weapons,

0:41:56 > 0:42:01which aren't perhaps, they may be a chemical nature

0:42:01 > 0:42:04or some sort of weapon which will actually cause greater

0:42:04 > 0:42:06harm than weapons which we provide.

0:42:06 > 0:42:08We just can't comprehend what might happen.

0:42:08 > 0:42:10So just because somebody else will commit a crime

0:42:10 > 0:42:17if you don't, you should.

0:42:17 > 0:42:20Over here on the other side of the gangway, and then

0:42:20 > 0:42:21Henry Bolton I will come to you.

0:42:21 > 0:42:24In terms of not sending aid at all into Yemen,

0:42:24 > 0:42:26what happens if everybody took that responsibility and that standpoint?

0:42:26 > 0:42:29There would be no aid going into there, when there is already

0:42:29 > 0:42:30a major humanitarian crisis.

0:42:30 > 0:42:34Well, I don't think anyone's arguing against aid going into Yemen.

0:42:34 > 0:42:35Henry Bolton.

0:42:35 > 0:42:38The question was, the point was, I think, almost, that we should not

0:42:38 > 0:42:41intervene in these places.

0:42:41 > 0:42:43Based on past track record.

0:42:43 > 0:42:48And I would entirely agree.

0:42:48 > 0:42:51And it links across to the weaponry that we provide with Saudi Arabia.

0:42:51 > 0:42:54And as far as I'm concerned, the weaponry that we are providing

0:42:54 > 0:42:57Saudi Arabia, to equate that to, as Sam did, to jobs, it's lives.

0:42:57 > 0:43:00There are people dying because of those weapons and you're

0:43:00 > 0:43:03saying people's jobs depend on them.

0:43:03 > 0:43:07But we are not good as a country and we have not been for many years

0:43:07 > 0:43:09in dealing with our interventionist policies and approaches.

0:43:09 > 0:43:13Iraq, Afghanistan.

0:43:13 > 0:43:16Two cases in point.

0:43:16 > 0:43:17In Afghanistan, the military mission was accomplished

0:43:17 > 0:43:20in probably about six months, a year at most.

0:43:20 > 0:43:23But we stayed there for years, getting involved in state building,

0:43:23 > 0:43:29in a society and in a political background that we had no

0:43:29 > 0:43:32understanding of what we were dealing with.

0:43:32 > 0:43:34And that's the problem.

0:43:34 > 0:43:36And we have got policies of selling arms to Saudi Arabia,

0:43:36 > 0:43:39and people dying as a result, without any real

0:43:39 > 0:43:44in-depth understanding of what's going on there.

0:43:44 > 0:43:46And we are complicit, therefore, in what is going

0:43:46 > 0:43:47on and the humanitarian disaster.

0:43:47 > 0:43:50We need to really re-evaluate how we conduct our foreign

0:43:50 > 0:43:52policy in such scenarios.

0:43:52 > 0:43:53I'm going to move on.

0:43:53 > 0:43:57Very briefly, if you would.

0:43:57 > 0:43:59No one is equating jobs with lives.

0:43:59 > 0:44:02What is going on in Yemen is the responsibility

0:44:02 > 0:44:06of the Saudi Arabian government, not the British government.

0:44:06 > 0:44:07If you're supplying arms to somebody...

0:44:07 > 0:44:10If I give you a weapon and you go and shoot somebody,

0:44:10 > 0:44:12who supplied you with the weapon?

0:44:12 > 0:44:15Who has part of the culpability?

0:44:15 > 0:44:18Would you be able to shoot them without the weapon?

0:44:18 > 0:44:19Of course not.

0:44:19 > 0:44:23We are not responsible for Saudi Arabian foreign policy.

0:44:23 > 0:44:26We have to leave it there to move onto another subject,

0:44:26 > 0:44:27which we had many questions on.

0:44:27 > 0:44:31Fiona Beardsley, please, your question.

0:44:31 > 0:44:33How would the panel tackle the social deprivation,

0:44:33 > 0:44:35the high unemployment, low wages that are being faced by

0:44:35 > 0:44:41many of our coastal towns in the UK?

0:44:41 > 0:44:43That was revealed by the commission report on social

0:44:43 > 0:44:44mobility this very week.

0:44:44 > 0:44:47Sarah Baxter.

0:44:47 > 0:44:52Well, I'd start with looking at education, because very often

0:44:52 > 0:44:56the coastal towns are falling behind in schools.

0:44:56 > 0:45:02Now, there are ways to reform that, and London's been pretty good at it,

0:45:02 > 0:45:05actually, by introducing a variety of types of schools,

0:45:05 > 0:45:07free schools, academies, etc.

0:45:07 > 0:45:10A lot of choice.

0:45:10 > 0:45:14I think standards need to be raised right from the start.

0:45:14 > 0:45:17We heard the Ofsted chief this week saying that early education is not

0:45:17 > 0:45:21good in this country, people aren't even learning

0:45:21 > 0:45:23the basics of reading and writing.

0:45:23 > 0:45:25Now that's just at the very basic level.

0:45:25 > 0:45:27It takes some time to work through.

0:45:27 > 0:45:29I'd like to see more investment.

0:45:29 > 0:45:32Maybe we'll come on to talk about the railways, but I'd love

0:45:32 > 0:45:36to see more infrastructure.

0:45:36 > 0:45:38You can talk about it now.

0:45:38 > 0:45:40You are free.

0:45:40 > 0:45:45Answer the question any way you choose.

0:45:45 > 0:45:49You talk about the railways.

0:45:49 > 0:45:53We are no longer living in that age of the car foreseen by Beeching

0:45:53 > 0:45:59and I think we should start developing, not just more branch

0:45:59 > 0:46:02lines but also the HS III connecting Liverpool to Hull and regenerate

0:46:02 > 0:46:04the whole of the North.

0:46:04 > 0:46:07I would like to see a Yorkshire Mayor, I don't know how

0:46:07 > 0:46:09you guys feel about that, but I think that Mayors can be...

0:46:09 > 0:46:16Well in my experience in London and in Manchester,

0:46:16 > 0:46:19they can be a good way of providing inward investment into a region

0:46:19 > 0:46:22and also generating a kind of cohesion and can-do spirit

0:46:22 > 0:46:24so I'm for it.

0:46:24 > 0:46:27Fiona Beardsley, what are you actually driving at here,

0:46:27 > 0:46:34what is it like, what is it that this social mobility

0:46:34 > 0:46:37report produced that you feel strongly about.

0:46:37 > 0:46:43I mean, I think, you know, it's obvious to us in Scarborough

0:46:43 > 0:46:46that we know this is happening locally and we face

0:46:46 > 0:46:50these problems daily.

0:46:50 > 0:46:52Our young people can't find employment, our

0:46:52 > 0:46:54employment is very seasonal.

0:46:54 > 0:47:01We are very isolated by our transport links as well

0:47:01 > 0:47:03which deters businesses from moving here and investing in the town.

0:47:03 > 0:47:05You, Sir, over there, to you agree with that?

0:47:05 > 0:47:10Yes, I agree, because the major road that comes into Scarborough

0:47:10 > 0:47:13is the A64 and if you go down that road, there are single

0:47:13 > 0:47:15carriageway section of it.

0:47:15 > 0:47:18If you go somewhere similar like Blackpool, it is a major

0:47:18 > 0:47:20motorway going into Blackpool so it puts blocks of businesses off

0:47:20 > 0:47:23because it's difficult to get the transport in and out

0:47:23 > 0:47:25of Scarborough and it's ridiculous that a town like Scarborough has

0:47:25 > 0:47:27such a ridiculous road going into it.

0:47:27 > 0:47:29You, Sir, what do you think?

0:47:29 > 0:47:30It's about education.

0:47:30 > 0:47:34We as a country are short of skilled people.

0:47:34 > 0:47:39Now, at school, if you, when we were at school at 13, 14,

0:47:39 > 0:47:42our teachers knew how far we could go.

0:47:42 > 0:47:45Now, I think at 14, most of the teachers should be able to be

0:47:45 > 0:47:48able to tell pupils and say, you can go on or you

0:47:48 > 0:47:53will go to university.

0:47:53 > 0:47:57Some of the people who're not clever enough to two to university,

0:47:57 > 0:47:59who've got the hands to go into trades.

0:47:59 > 0:48:07We are short of electricians, plasterers, joiners, chefs,

0:48:07 > 0:48:09At 14, 15, you should start to learn a trade.

0:48:09 > 0:48:12Are you talking about the country as a whole or Scarborough?

0:48:12 > 0:48:14The country as a whole but Scarborough would

0:48:14 > 0:48:15obviously benefit as well.

0:48:15 > 0:48:16The woman here?

0:48:16 > 0:48:18My question was relating to the £53 billion and rising

0:48:18 > 0:48:25all the time, of HS II.

0:48:25 > 0:48:28What benefit does the panel see that for the north-east?

0:48:28 > 0:48:31Chuka Umunna?

0:48:31 > 0:48:33And HS III yes but for Hull.

0:48:33 > 0:48:35When is that going to be?

0:48:35 > 0:48:37I'm nervous in replying to this question.

0:48:37 > 0:48:38Why?

0:48:38 > 0:48:39I'll explain why.

0:48:39 > 0:48:47Part of the problem here is we try to do everything in London

0:48:47 > 0:48:50in Whitehall and to come and tell a community like yours

0:48:50 > 0:48:52here how to do things...

0:48:52 > 0:48:56APPLAUSE.

0:48:56 > 0:49:00And, you know, it seems to me, I mean if you take an overview,

0:49:00 > 0:49:03it's shocking, we are the sixth most wealthy country in the world and yet

0:49:03 > 0:49:05one in five people lives in absolute poverty,

0:49:05 > 0:49:07over 14 million people are living in absolute poverty

0:49:07 > 0:49:09in our country which I think is a disgrace.

0:49:09 > 0:49:10APPLAUSE.

0:49:10 > 0:49:12But, how do you deal with that?

0:49:12 > 0:49:13You need proper local industrial strategies and,

0:49:13 > 0:49:17when I say you need to decide that here, is that you know

0:49:17 > 0:49:19what it is about your unique geography history and people that

0:49:19 > 0:49:23givious a cutting edge and a niche in a big global economy.

0:49:23 > 0:49:26I visited another area like this, Clacton-on-Sea,

0:49:26 > 0:49:36a couple of years ago.

0:49:36 > 0:49:39They are going through change there as well.

0:49:39 > 0:49:43It was massively based on tourism before, there was a big Butlins

0:49:43 > 0:49:46there that shut down in 1983 and then they were left with not

0:49:46 > 0:49:48new industries and now because of the geography

0:49:48 > 0:49:51and the place, they've turned it into this renewable energy

0:49:51 > 0:49:52hub, big windfarms just outside of Clacton-on-Sea.

0:49:52 > 0:49:55But they know how to do that.

0:49:55 > 0:49:59I think what we have to do, people in the centre in government,

0:49:59 > 0:50:01have to give you the tools to do that.

0:50:01 > 0:50:04I totally agree with the point that the gentleman made about skills

0:50:04 > 0:50:07and we have got to end the snobbery in this country that says,

0:50:07 > 0:50:18if you go to university, that is better than becoming

0:50:18 > 0:50:20an apprentice than doing a vocational education

0:50:20 > 0:50:21qualification.

0:50:21 > 0:50:22APPLAUSE.

0:50:22 > 0:50:24I'll tell you, there's a really big problem,

0:50:24 > 0:50:26there's a real crisis on the apprenticeship front

0:50:26 > 0:50:28because over the past quarter, the number of apprenticeship starts

0:50:28 > 0:50:29has fallen by 70%.

0:50:29 > 0:50:32We are not going to solve these problems with that

0:50:32 > 0:50:33type of thing happening.

0:50:33 > 0:50:34All right.

0:50:34 > 0:50:37The woman here in the second row, then we'll come to you, Yanis?

0:50:37 > 0:50:39I don't necessarily think that education is the answer.

0:50:39 > 0:50:42I have three degrees and today I nearly didn't get

0:50:42 > 0:50:44here because I had to travel home from Newcastle where I work

0:50:44 > 0:50:53and the train got delayed.

0:50:53 > 0:50:57I travel up and down to Newcastle and up and down to London an also

0:50:57 > 0:51:01around all of the coastal towns and cities in England as part

0:51:01 > 0:51:05of my job and it's the same, it can take me ten hours on a train

0:51:05 > 0:51:09to get from here to Cornwall.

0:51:09 > 0:51:12I can fly to the Middle East in less time than that takes.

0:51:12 > 0:51:13APPLAUSE.

0:51:13 > 0:51:14We do not have adequate transport links.

0:51:14 > 0:51:15The infrastructure, right.

0:51:15 > 0:51:21How can you expect investment to happen and businesses

0:51:21 > 0:51:23to want to develop in areas like this, regardless

0:51:23 > 0:51:26of what the business is, if they haven't got the ability

0:51:26 > 0:51:28to get there, and therefore, what's the point in being

0:51:28 > 0:51:30educated if you can't work where you live?

0:51:30 > 0:51:32APPLAUSE.

0:51:32 > 0:51:35Yanis Varoufakis ?

0:51:35 > 0:51:38I agree with much of what I heard about the importance of strong

0:51:38 > 0:51:40regional governance, whether this is a mayorship

0:51:40 > 0:51:41or I would actually like Regional Assemblies,

0:51:41 > 0:51:47a more federal kingdom to emerge, it's a complete devolution that

0:51:47 > 0:51:49Tony Blair left incomplete, infrastructure, education

0:51:49 > 0:51:53is an end in itself, and of course it has very

0:51:53 > 0:51:56good side effects.

0:51:56 > 0:52:01But I think what our conversation is missing out

0:52:01 > 0:52:03on is that the situation in towns like Scarborough or Clacton-on-Sea

0:52:03 > 0:52:08and so on is simply a symptom of the chronic under-performance

0:52:08 > 0:52:15of the UK business model.

0:52:15 > 0:52:25You have a country which is chronically under-investing

0:52:26 > 0:52:29in research and development compared to the main places around Europe

0:52:29 > 0:52:32and the world in fixed capital, in infrastructure.

0:52:32 > 0:52:37You have wage stagnation, you have the worst, the most

0:52:37 > 0:52:42lob-sided geographical imbalances of any major country in the world,

0:52:42 > 0:52:44worse than Italy actually.

0:52:44 > 0:52:45APPLAUSE.

0:52:45 > 0:52:46Where does the blame for this lie?

0:52:46 > 0:52:48Let's not play the blame game.

0:52:48 > 0:52:50You have to play the blame game if you are going

0:52:50 > 0:53:00to resolve anything.

0:53:02 > 0:53:05Mrs Thatcher on the basis of what was a very clear attempt

0:53:05 > 0:53:06to diminish the organisations of the working

0:53:06 > 0:53:07class in Britain...

0:53:07 > 0:53:08APPLAUSE.

0:53:08 > 0:53:13The fact that you had growth based on financisations of the city,

0:53:13 > 0:53:19The fact that you had growth based on financialisations of the city,

0:53:19 > 0:53:21financialisations of council house sales which of course depleted

0:53:21 > 0:53:23the stock of housing, the fact that then you created

0:53:23 > 0:53:25an educational system, higher educational system,

0:53:25 > 0:53:28university system where young people have to become endebted before

0:53:28 > 0:53:30they even begin to consider entering the labour market.

0:53:30 > 0:53:33But let's talk what about what needs to be done.

0:53:33 > 0:53:38We only have...

0:53:38 > 0:53:40Allow me to say something good about the government.

0:53:40 > 0:53:44Say anything you like but be quick about it, that's all.

0:53:44 > 0:53:48I read the interesting policy White Paper, it's actually quite

0:53:48 > 0:53:49good except it's missing an important point.

0:53:49 > 0:53:51An important part.

0:53:51 > 0:53:52Funding.

0:53:52 > 0:53:53APPLAUSE.

0:53:53 > 0:53:58What you have in this country is about £900 billion slushing

0:53:58 > 0:54:03around in the financial sector needing to be invested

0:54:03 > 0:54:05in all of the things that you are discussing.

0:54:05 > 0:54:08But in order to do that, you need a public investment bank

0:54:08 > 0:54:10and you need that public investment bank to work side by side

0:54:10 > 0:54:13with the Bank of England through a particular kind

0:54:13 > 0:54:16of quantitative easing.

0:54:16 > 0:54:19Sorry, I have to speed you up.

0:54:19 > 0:54:24I'm afraid only Jeremy Corbyn will do this because your government

0:54:24 > 0:54:26doesn't have what it takes to realise the importance of closing

0:54:26 > 0:54:27the loop that you started.

0:54:27 > 0:54:28Sam Gyimah?

0:54:28 > 0:54:30Thanks, Yanis.

0:54:30 > 0:54:35The lady's question was about social mobility and social mobility is your

0:54:35 > 0:54:39chances of improving your life whatever circumstances

0:54:39 > 0:54:42into which you were born.

0:54:42 > 0:54:52The report that came out this week showed a mixed picture.

0:54:52 > 0:54:54Ironically, despite what Chuka said, the report says it's not

0:54:54 > 0:54:57a North-south divide, what the report said is that

0:54:57 > 0:54:59you have got a mixed picture across the country.

0:54:59 > 0:55:01Scarborough was in there and I think the education was highlighted

0:55:01 > 0:55:04in that report and that is why there is £72 million

0:55:04 > 0:55:06going towards specific areas in the country of which Scarborough

0:55:06 > 0:55:09is one to help really improve the quality of education.

0:55:09 > 0:55:12But I'll say that the situation is not all that bad.

0:55:12 > 0:55:15I had a look at what's been happening here on my way up.

0:55:15 > 0:55:17£1 billion is going into the into the potash mine,

0:55:17 > 0:55:20that's going to create 1,000 jobs locally.

0:55:20 > 0:55:25I think that is great news.

0:55:25 > 0:55:27McCains is investing £100 million into Scarborough.

0:55:27 > 0:55:29I think that is also good news.

0:55:29 > 0:55:36But I'm not saying that is all.

0:55:36 > 0:55:38I think the lady's point about infrastructure, I really,

0:55:38 > 0:55:40really appreciate because I missed my connecting train and I was

0:55:40 > 0:55:43worried I was going to miss this show today so that is definitely

0:55:43 > 0:55:45something that we could do more about.

0:55:45 > 0:55:48Henry Bolton, you will have to be brief, if you would?

0:55:48 > 0:55:49I will be.

0:55:49 > 0:55:51The nature of coastal towns is that they are 180

0:55:51 > 0:55:53degrees surrounded by land, thereabouts and the rest

0:55:53 > 0:55:55and they don't have access, to compete with inland towns,

0:55:55 > 0:55:57they need double the investment for access.

0:55:57 > 0:55:59Traditional industries in those areas, coastal

0:55:59 > 0:56:00towns, have been reduced.

0:56:00 > 0:56:01What about the fishing industry?

0:56:01 > 0:56:02Lowestoft for example?

0:56:02 > 0:56:04(Inaudible).

0:56:04 > 0:56:05Correct.

0:56:05 > 0:56:06Correct.

0:56:07 > 0:56:14What Chuka says about having to listen to coastal communities,

0:56:14 > 0:56:18you know I totally agree, but the reason coastal

0:56:18 > 0:56:20communities are in the state that they are is because successive

0:56:20 > 0:56:22governments of different colours have been ignoring the concerns

0:56:22 > 0:56:26of local communities for too long on everything from infrastructure

0:56:26 > 0:56:28to jobs, to education, to the rule of law.

0:56:28 > 0:56:30So it's a succession of problems.

0:56:30 > 0:56:32They've been ignoring our voice about fracking

0:56:32 > 0:56:33for long enough as well.

0:56:33 > 0:56:37We don't want it.

0:56:37 > 0:56:41It will ruin our agriculture, it will ruin our tourism,

0:56:41 > 0:56:44but this government is determined to do it and we don't want it.

0:56:44 > 0:56:46APPLAUSE.

0:56:46 > 0:56:48No fracking but you are in favour of potash?

0:56:48 > 0:56:49No, absolutely not.

0:56:49 > 0:56:50Against potash as well.

0:56:50 > 0:56:57The woman here and we are pretty much coming to tend,

0:56:57 > 0:56:59The woman here and we are pretty much coming to the end,

0:56:59 > 0:57:02the woman here on the side, quickly?

0:57:02 > 0:57:05I just want to agree that I think a lot of the trouble on the coastal

0:57:05 > 0:57:08communities is that the government think they know what's best

0:57:08 > 0:57:10for us, without asking us what's best for us.

0:57:10 > 0:57:13Even to the point where they said, you can have electrification

0:57:13 > 0:57:16of the railway line from Liverpool to the East Coast except it wasn't,

0:57:16 > 0:57:18it was going to stop in York.

0:57:18 > 0:57:20At the moment we can get right through when we get

0:57:20 > 0:57:22electrification we'll have to change trains.

0:57:22 > 0:57:23OK.

0:57:23 > 0:57:26We have got to stop but I want you hear Vicky Blake's question

0:57:26 > 0:57:33and you can all answer it.

0:57:33 > 0:57:35Vicky Blake, just ask your question if you would?

0:57:35 > 0:57:38Is Theresa May being mean spirited by not giving the country an extra

0:57:38 > 0:57:40Bank Holiday for the Royal Wedding?

0:57:40 > 0:57:43Hands up those of you who would like an extra Bank Holiday

0:57:43 > 0:57:44for the Royal Wedding?

0:57:44 > 0:57:45Only half of you.

0:57:45 > 0:57:46The other half will stay at work.

0:57:46 > 0:57:48OK.

0:57:48 > 0:57:48Thank you very much.

0:57:48 > 0:57:50On our panel, hands up?

0:57:50 > 0:57:51Yes, why not.

0:57:51 > 0:57:52Why not.

0:57:52 > 0:57:53We'll give you four.

0:57:53 > 0:57:55They should get married on the Bank Holiday.

0:57:55 > 0:58:00That really is time up.

0:58:00 > 0:58:01That really is time up.

0:58:01 > 0:58:03You are not for Bank Holidays obviously, no.

0:58:03 > 0:58:05Chuka has banned all Bank Holidays.

0:58:05 > 0:58:08No holidays.

0:58:08 > 0:58:11Next Thursday we are going to be in Swansea, the First Minister

0:58:11 > 0:58:14of Wales Carwyn Jones is going to be there, Richard Bacon,

0:58:14 > 0:58:17the television and radio presenter is going to be on the panel,

0:58:17 > 0:58:20Barnsley the week after that, with Nicky Morgan and reckth Rebecca

0:58:20 > 0:58:21long-Bailey among those.

0:58:21 > 0:58:28If you want to come to either place, the number to ring: 03301239998.

0:58:28 > 0:58:31If you want to come to either place, the number to ring.

0:58:31 > 0:58:34You can also apply on the website which is probably an easier way

0:58:34 > 0:58:37of doing it if your Broadband works and indeed if you've got Broadband.

0:58:37 > 0:58:39Question Time extra time follows now on Five Live.

0:58:39 > 0:58:42Here my thanks to our panel and to all of you who came

0:58:42 > 0:58:45through the mild little inch or two of snow to Scarborough

0:58:45 > 0:58:46tonight to take part.

0:58:46 > 0:58:47Until next Thursday from Question Time, good night.