0:00:06 > 0:00:13Tonight we are in Barnsley and welcome to Question Time.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20On our panel tonight, the Conservative MP, former
0:00:20 > 0:00:24Education Secretary Nicky Morgan, who was one of the 11
0:00:24 > 0:00:28Tories who voted against the Government last night.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30And, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Labour's Shadow secretary
0:00:30 > 0:00:35for business, she's been an MP for two years, and was an early
0:00:35 > 0:00:37supporter of Jeremy Corbyn as Labour Leader.
0:00:37 > 0:00:43The scientist, broadcaster, expert on the joys and pains of childhood,
0:00:43 > 0:00:47Professor Robert Winston, the former Political Editor of
0:00:47 > 0:00:50the Sunday Times and the Daily Mail, the fervent Brexiteer,
0:00:50 > 0:00:52Isabel Oakeshott.
0:00:52 > 0:00:56And that rarity on the standup circuit, a comedian who votes
0:00:56 > 0:01:00Conservative and voted Brexit and survived those audiences,
0:01:00 > 0:01:02so tonight should be a walk in the park for Geoff
0:01:02 > 0:01:03Norcott.
0:01:03 > 0:01:08APPLAUSE.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18Thank you very much.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21Now, of course, from home you can, as always argue the toss
0:01:21 > 0:01:31using #BBCQT on Twitter, on Facebook or text 8398 #1rks press
0:01:31 > 0:01:34using #BBCQT on Twitter, on Facebook or text 83981, press
0:01:34 > 0:01:36red to see what others are saying.
0:01:36 > 0:01:38If you tweet about Question Time, you may not have seen this,
0:01:38 > 0:01:41it was reported this week that we are the second most tweeted
0:01:41 > 0:01:44programme in Britain on television and only love island gets more
0:01:44 > 0:01:45tweets than we do.
0:01:45 > 0:01:50So I'm applying to go on love island in the next series.
0:01:50 > 0:01:55So our first question tonight from James Powers, please.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57When will some MPs stop trying to subvert the will
0:01:57 > 0:02:04of the people on Brexit?
0:02:04 > 0:02:14APPLAUSE.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16Are you thinking of anyone around this table, James?
0:02:16 > 0:02:17Nicky Morgan, you'd better start?
0:02:17 > 0:02:20I think that might be aimed at me.
0:02:20 > 0:02:25Last night was not about doing that, we've had the referendum,
0:02:25 > 0:02:28we had the vote in June 2016 and people have made the decision
0:02:28 > 0:02:29to leave the European Union.
0:02:29 > 0:02:35The question is how we leave the European Union.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38Well, this is one of the issues because the referendum's proved
0:02:38 > 0:02:41I think the most divisive thing I have ever come across
0:02:41 > 0:02:42in my political career.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45I've been involved in politics for almost 30 years and it's
0:02:45 > 0:02:48something we have to have a proper debate about and actually if we are
0:02:48 > 0:02:51going to continually revert to labels, misrepresentations,
0:02:51 > 0:02:54threats, bullying, intimidation, then we are not going to do the best
0:02:54 > 0:03:00by the country which is now about getting the best possible deal
0:03:00 > 0:03:03in the European Union.
0:03:03 > 0:03:05What were you trying to achieve then?
0:03:05 > 0:03:07APPLAUSE.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10We know everybody, the majority of people in this country voted
0:03:10 > 0:03:13Brexit, what is the idea of last night's vote except to change
0:03:13 > 0:03:16the deal the Prime Minister might get, what is the aim of it?
0:03:16 > 0:03:24The same to make sure the UK Parliament like the EU Parliament
0:03:24 > 0:03:27The aim is to make sure the UK Parliament like the EU Parliament
0:03:27 > 0:03:30has a meaningful say on the final deal.
0:03:30 > 0:03:34I thought the vote was given to us the people under the referendum...
0:03:34 > 0:03:35Well...
0:03:35 > 0:03:36APPLAUSE.
0:03:36 > 0:03:38Well the decision to leave has been made.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41I mean that has been and gone, so those who voted to leave,
0:03:41 > 0:03:45many of them still don't seem to be able to accept that that has
0:03:45 > 0:03:46happened, it's protecting that, rather than debating how
0:03:46 > 0:03:49we are going to leave and I'm afraid as a constituency Member
0:03:49 > 0:03:54of Parliament I'm absolutely going to stand up for the economic
0:03:54 > 0:03:57security of my constituents, the values that we have as a country
0:03:57 > 0:03:59and our constitution.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02In this current Bill that was being debated,
0:04:02 > 0:04:05we had a lot of powers that were going to come back
0:04:05 > 0:04:08to the Government, to the executive, and not be scrutinised by
0:04:08 > 0:04:09Parliament.
0:04:09 > 0:04:12I'm afraid as a backbencher of Parliament that is not right and,
0:04:12 > 0:04:16just because we have a precedent now, we say this is just for Brexit,
0:04:16 > 0:04:19what happens next time Parliament's got round so that the Government
0:04:19 > 0:04:21can carry on.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24People will say, what on earth were you doing as Members
0:04:24 > 0:04:26of Parliament not scrutinising this at the time.
0:04:26 > 0:04:28Isabel Oakeshott?
0:04:28 > 0:04:35I'm sorry Nicky but I think this is sanctimoniousd twole.
0:04:35 > 0:04:45I'm sorry Nicky but I think this is sanctimoniousd twoddle.
0:04:48 > 0:04:50We have heard a lot from you about putting
0:04:50 > 0:04:52country before party.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54I think this is all about you actually because you because you
0:04:54 > 0:04:57don't believe in Brexit, to you, ultimately you say you've
0:04:57 > 0:05:00accepted it's going to happen but I don't think that you believe
0:05:00 > 0:05:02in it and I think this is about...
0:05:02 > 0:05:04Why don't we have a loyalty test now.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06OK if we are going to get on to loyalty...
0:05:06 > 0:05:07You have got
0:05:07 > 0:05:09to embrace it, love it and agree with it.
0:05:09 > 0:05:13I'm really happy you have brought us on to the question of loyalty
0:05:13 > 0:05:15because I wonder how you as a Conservative
0:05:15 > 0:05:19MP felt as you trotted through the lobbies last night
0:05:19 > 0:05:20night with Labour...
0:05:20 > 0:05:21Sick actually...
0:05:21 > 0:05:23With Labour MPs.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25You were later to be heard singing the red flag.
0:05:25 > 0:05:26How did you feel.
0:05:26 > 0:05:27No, I was not.
0:05:27 > 0:05:28I have no idea.
0:05:28 > 0:05:29APPLAUSE.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32I didn't hear anyone singing anything.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36You have humiliated the Prime Minister, you have
0:05:36 > 0:05:39undermined her negotiating position.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42And you are not standing up for what the people
0:05:42 > 0:05:44of this country voted for.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48Hold on, I'll come to you both.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51Right, of course, Rebecca Long-Bailey was there, Labour
0:05:51 > 0:05:53were in the opposition lobbies.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55How do you answer the question?
0:05:55 > 0:05:58Brexit is going to happen whatever people's opinions
0:05:58 > 0:05:59might be of Brexit.
0:05:59 > 0:06:05Last night's vote was not an attempt to block Brexit,
0:06:05 > 0:06:08it was to give Parliament the right to scrutinise and vote
0:06:08 > 0:06:09on the final deal.
0:06:09 > 0:06:16What does scrutinise mean, sorry, a very simple question.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19What does scrutinise mean if it doesn't mean change the deal that
0:06:19 > 0:06:20has been negotiated?
0:06:20 > 0:06:23Well, we don't know whether we'll have scope to change the final deal,
0:06:23 > 0:06:26that will be up to Europe to decide whether we might be able
0:06:26 > 0:06:28to bring things back to the negotiating table.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31It gives us the option of scrutinising the final deal
0:06:31 > 0:06:33and assessing whether no deal or the deal on the table
0:06:33 > 0:06:35is best for the country.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38At the moment, the Government wanted to push through their deal
0:06:38 > 0:06:41without any Parliamentary oversight and the way that they've dealt
0:06:41 > 0:06:43with Brexit so far quite frankly has been shambolic.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45APPLAUSE.
0:06:45 > 0:06:51They told us that they'd carried out impact assessments of various
0:06:51 > 0:06:55sectors, yet a few months later they tell us the impact
0:06:55 > 0:06:58assessments don't exist.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01We had Philip Hammond threatening to turn the UK into a tax haven
0:07:01 > 0:07:05if we didn't get the deal we wanted.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08So I'm not about to let the Conservatives have a Blank
0:07:08 > 0:07:09cheque to write away our economic destiny.
0:07:09 > 0:07:11APPLAUSE.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15Rebecca Long-Bailey, you said something,
0:07:15 > 0:07:20I think you said this, I think you said, we'll
0:07:20 > 0:07:23have the power to decide whether what's on the table or no
0:07:23 > 0:07:26deal is better...
0:07:26 > 0:07:28Is that what you mean, you don't want to...
0:07:28 > 0:07:30Brexit will happen whatever the outcome.
0:07:30 > 0:07:32You but do you want the power to change the deal
0:07:32 > 0:07:35that the Prime Minister and David Davis and the others have
0:07:35 > 0:07:39negotiated, or do you just want the power to say,
0:07:39 > 0:07:41we don't like that at all, Labour's policy is no-deal?
0:07:41 > 0:07:44We don't want to have a no-deal option but what last
0:07:44 > 0:07:46night's amendment gave us was the opportunity to scrutinise
0:07:46 > 0:07:49the deal and request that the Government go back
0:07:49 > 0:07:52to Europe if we want to amend certain parts of it.
0:07:52 > 0:07:54Now, that's not to say that Europe will agree to that.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56But it's an option now that wasn't there before.
0:07:56 > 0:07:57All right.
0:07:57 > 0:07:58Let's hear from...
0:07:58 > 0:08:01We have a lot of people with their hands up.
0:08:01 > 0:08:03Let's hear from members of our audience one by one.
0:08:03 > 0:08:07You here on the right, madam?
0:08:07 > 0:08:10You bounce it round like a tennis ball, it goes backwards
0:08:10 > 0:08:12and forwards, backwards and forwards until we'll all expire before
0:08:12 > 0:08:14we ever get there, I'm afraid.
0:08:14 > 0:08:16Because you think it's just going to go on?
0:08:16 > 0:08:18I think it will get thrown back.
0:08:18 > 0:08:21Why can't you all agree to go down an agreed path.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24It doesn't sound as though this audience can agree so I don't know
0:08:24 > 0:08:25how the House of Commons can agree.
0:08:25 > 0:08:33You, there?
0:08:33 > 0:08:36It showed political naivety because all you have done is taken
0:08:36 > 0:08:38the negotiating arm away from the Government
0:08:38 > 0:08:39that we sent off to negotiate.
0:08:39 > 0:08:43APPLAUSE.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46If you've ever been in a negotiation to sit at a negotiating table
0:08:46 > 0:08:48and get told, right, are you prepared to deal,
0:08:48 > 0:08:51have you got the authority to deal, they can't say that now,
0:08:51 > 0:08:52they've got no authority to deal.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54Nicky Morgan, do you want to answer him?
0:08:54 > 0:08:56I'm afraid I disagree.
0:08:56 > 0:08:59The EU Parliament is also going to have a vote so that
0:08:59 > 0:09:01would also apply in that case to the EU negotiators.
0:09:01 > 0:09:02It's not our Parliament.
0:09:02 > 0:09:03It is about our Parliament.
0:09:03 > 0:09:08Our Parliament's got to come back and you could potentially put us
0:09:08 > 0:09:11into a no-deal Brexit because if it gets to the end of the clock
0:09:11 > 0:09:14ticking and we can't agree, where do we end up?
0:09:14 > 0:09:16There are some people who want there to be a no-deal.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18That would be deeply damaging for the country.
0:09:18 > 0:09:19It's making sure...
0:09:19 > 0:09:20You've got what you wanted.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23What we have got is the opportunity for the UK Parliament
0:09:23 > 0:09:25to look at the final deal, we are kept informed
0:09:25 > 0:09:28as we were last week, Parliament was very supportive
0:09:28 > 0:09:36of the Prime Minister's achievement in getting on to the day two talks.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38on to the phase two talks.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39You are killing it.
0:09:39 > 0:09:41You don't even understand, you are killing it by committing.
0:09:41 > 0:09:43There's that many people involved now, we are never
0:09:43 > 0:09:45going to get a good deal.
0:09:45 > 0:09:46Let's pause there.
0:09:46 > 0:09:47Robert Winston?
0:09:47 > 0:09:50Can we just cut out the rhetoric for a second, it might be helpful.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53First of all, I never thought I would say this to Nicky Morgan
0:09:53 > 0:09:56but I congratulate you for you vote last night, I think
0:09:56 > 0:09:57it was a brilliant vote.
0:09:57 > 0:09:58APPLAUSE.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01I think you did exactly what was in the spirit
0:10:01 > 0:10:02of the whole Brexit issue.
0:10:02 > 0:10:08The reason why people voted for Brexit was because they wanted
0:10:08 > 0:10:10to have the sovereignty of the British Parliament
0:10:10 > 0:10:12and what you ensured last night was the sovereignty
0:10:12 > 0:10:15of the British Parliament so that Parliament can have a say in how
0:10:15 > 0:10:17things are negotiated.
0:10:17 > 0:10:18That was something which was splendid to do
0:10:18 > 0:10:19and I congratulate you.
0:10:19 > 0:10:23I read the whole of the Hansard very carefully, every word of that debate
0:10:23 > 0:10:26and looked at who spoke and I'm very impressed by the standard
0:10:26 > 0:10:29of the debate, I think it was a very, very high standard.
0:10:29 > 0:10:31There are some real problems we have to face.
0:10:31 > 0:10:33For example, in the NHS, there is a massive problem
0:10:33 > 0:10:34growing because of Brexit.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36There is also the issue of Euratom.
0:10:36 > 0:10:43For example, we now no longer will have any kind of relationship
0:10:43 > 0:10:46with Europe over atomic isotopes.
0:10:46 > 0:10:49That means it will affect the whole of cancer therapy,
0:10:49 > 0:10:52all sorts of drug-making, all kinds of issues which affect
0:10:52 > 0:10:55medical treatment on a day-to-day basis in our hospitals,
0:10:55 > 0:10:57leaving aside the manpower crisis which is growing.
0:10:57 > 0:11:02There are all sorts of other issues which need to be disentangled.
0:11:02 > 0:11:05That's why we absolutely have to have this negotiation and it has
0:11:05 > 0:11:07to be run by Parliament.
0:11:07 > 0:11:08It can't be run by Brussels.
0:11:08 > 0:11:11APPLAUSE.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15I'll come to you?
0:11:15 > 0:11:17I just speak as perhaps the non-politician, non-journalist.
0:11:17 > 0:11:22When I was on the show earlier this year I started off by saying I felt
0:11:22 > 0:11:26sorry for Theresa May and I can't believe I'm going to say it again,
0:11:26 > 0:11:28I did feel sorry for her, she's had quite a year,
0:11:28 > 0:11:31you know, coughing up a fur ball at the Party Conference,
0:11:31 > 0:11:33calling an election she didn't win, squirming on the couch
0:11:33 > 0:11:34at The One Show.
0:11:34 > 0:11:44She might have felt reasonably entitled to think that having gotten
0:11:44 > 0:11:47through a difficult first phase in the negotiation, that she might
0:11:47 > 0:11:50be able to go home at Christmas and enjoy her mince pies.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53I'll take you at face value Nicky, in what you are saying in terms
0:11:53 > 0:11:56of wanting to do the right thing by the country, but I don't know
0:11:56 > 0:12:00if the net effect might be different to what you intend and the Tory
0:12:00 > 0:12:02rebels have to be careful because May's grip on power
0:12:02 > 0:12:03is tenuous at best.
0:12:03 > 0:12:05You might get a harder Brexiteer in charge in tend,
0:12:05 > 0:12:08You might get a harder Brexiteer in charge in the end,
0:12:08 > 0:12:10somebody perhaps like Jeremy Corbyn, perhaps.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12And I think the real crux of this issue always seems
0:12:12 > 0:12:13to come down to this.
0:12:13 > 0:12:15It's a single market.
0:12:15 > 0:12:17Every argument comes back to single market and freedom of movement
0:12:17 > 0:12:19and the freedom of movement thing is important.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22I grew up in London and my experience of immigration
0:12:22 > 0:12:23was an incredibly positive things.
0:12:23 > 0:12:24But London isn't Britain.
0:12:24 > 0:12:25It's important to say that.
0:12:25 > 0:12:26London isn't Britain.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28And people's experience of immigration around the country
0:12:28 > 0:12:31is wildly different and when you saw the MPs waving their order papers
0:12:31 > 0:12:34last night and cheering, there is a lot of the country that
0:12:34 > 0:12:35wouldn't have looked on that well.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39There is a lot of leave voters like me that think see immigration
0:12:39 > 0:12:41as a necessary and welcome part of any liberal democracy,
0:12:41 > 0:12:45but that perhaps it shouldn't be unlimited in perpetuity and that
0:12:45 > 0:12:48that decision shouldn't be taken elsewhere.
0:12:48 > 0:12:51I welcome some immigration but that decision should be
0:12:51 > 0:12:53taken here and not in Brussels.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55APPLAUSE.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58You, Sir?
0:12:58 > 0:13:02I really couldn't agree more with Nicky and Robert.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05The leave campaign all throughout the Brexit referendum shouted
0:13:05 > 0:13:09and yelled about sovereignty for the UK Parliament,
0:13:09 > 0:13:13sovereignty for the UK and then when Nicky bravely votes for that,
0:13:13 > 0:13:15suddenly she's being attacked, do you know what I mean?
0:13:15 > 0:13:17It doesn't make sense.
0:13:17 > 0:13:18Isabel?
0:13:18 > 0:13:23Can I pick up on that because where exactly was Nicky
0:13:23 > 0:13:26when sovereignty was seeded to Brussels over decades?
0:13:26 > 0:13:29I didn't see Nicky manning the barricades.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32I want to make another point which is about trust
0:13:32 > 0:13:35here and I think we've got a real issue with trust in our MPs to carry
0:13:35 > 0:13:37out the will of the people.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40If you just take Barnsley as an example.
0:13:40 > 0:13:4368% of people in Barnsley voted to leave.
0:13:43 > 0:13:48Unfortunately, 73% of our MPs are remainers and that is now
0:13:48 > 0:13:56being played out in the Houses of Parliament in a way that erodes
0:13:56 > 0:13:58trust in the execution of the will of the people.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01That is a real problem.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05The man on the gangway there, you in blue, yes?
0:14:05 > 0:14:11We are constantly being told by these elite politicians,
0:14:11 > 0:14:15and obviously she's done a really treacherous act last night
0:14:15 > 0:14:21against the Conservative Party, but the lady on the other side
0:14:21 > 0:14:27is in a party that should be defending the working class
0:14:27 > 0:14:31communities that this town is, and their parties tending
0:14:31 > 0:14:36towards the single market now which is unrestricted migration.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39That is what this town overall voted leave to stop, because it damaged
0:14:39 > 0:14:41the working class communities.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44She's worse than her in effect and her party's doing more damage
0:14:44 > 0:14:48to these communities if we are going to hear
0:14:48 > 0:14:51that Keir Starmer keep on about the single market's
0:14:51 > 0:14:53on its way back.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55That's what we wouldn't have in these working class
0:14:55 > 0:14:57traditional communities.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00You're stabbing us in the back if you're going to carry
0:15:00 > 0:15:02on what happened last night with those treacherous rebels
0:15:02 > 0:15:04and bring that down upon us.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08And when he says about Parliamentary sovereignty,
0:15:08 > 0:15:10the people are the sovereign to put their representatives
0:15:10 > 0:15:14in a Parliament, and we made our decision.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18We know why we made it, I know you say we are thick up north,
0:15:18 > 0:15:24but I remember voting on my ballot paper, and it said Leave or Remain,
0:15:24 > 0:15:28and it didn't say when I put my box in Leave, now turn to question two,
0:15:28 > 0:15:33do you want the soft Brexit or the hard Brexit?
0:15:33 > 0:15:37APPLAUSE AND SOME CHEERING.
0:15:37 > 0:15:42Rebecca Long-Bailey.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45Look, we're quite clear that Brexit is going to happen,
0:15:45 > 0:15:47but we want a deal that puts our economy...
0:15:47 > 0:15:49Act like it then.
0:15:49 > 0:15:53Drop the single market.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55Give her a fair shout.
0:15:55 > 0:15:57Last night was important because, over the past few weeks,
0:15:57 > 0:16:00it's been very rarely reported as to the amendments that were put
0:16:00 > 0:16:04through in the EU Withdrawal Bill, when the Conservatives voted
0:16:04 > 0:16:06against Labour's amendments to make sure workers' rights were protected,
0:16:06 > 0:16:09they voted against Labour's amendments to make sure
0:16:09 > 0:16:13that our environmental rights and safeguards were protected,
0:16:13 > 0:16:15they haven't dealt with the Euratom issue,
0:16:15 > 0:16:18as Robert has discussed earlier, and they also didn't look
0:16:18 > 0:16:21at specific sectors, specific parts of crucial industry
0:16:21 > 0:16:25that reflect areas of Barnsley, areas of Salford, where I'm from,
0:16:25 > 0:16:29where, if we didn't get a good deal from the European Union,
0:16:29 > 0:16:32we would be on our knees economically, and that doesn't
0:16:32 > 0:16:34support working people.
0:16:34 > 0:16:36APPLAUSE.
0:16:36 > 0:16:40But just stick with his point.
0:16:40 > 0:16:44He said he voted out and Labour wants a single market, I think,
0:16:44 > 0:16:46in the words John McDonnell used.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49They want easy immigration.
0:16:49 > 0:16:53You know, what is it about vote leave that you accept?
0:16:53 > 0:16:56We want a common arrangement with the European Union that
0:16:56 > 0:16:58allows us to trade freely so that the industries
0:16:58 > 0:16:59we have here...
0:16:59 > 0:17:01That's what the Conservatives do.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04So the industries we have here can trade in the best way possible.
0:17:04 > 0:17:06Theresa May is trying to get that.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08In terms of free movement, we recognise that coming out
0:17:08 > 0:17:11of the European Union means that free movement will end.
0:17:11 > 0:17:12Keir Starmer isn't saying that.
0:17:12 > 0:17:14We want to use that as an opportunity to end
0:17:14 > 0:17:17the undercutting of pay by people that have been shipped
0:17:17 > 0:17:18in from Europe...
0:17:18 > 0:17:20But we are hearing Keir Starmer, I heard him last Sunday,
0:17:20 > 0:17:23and he mentioned the single market.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26He said he wanted similar benefits that we currently have
0:17:26 > 0:17:27within the single market.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31He didn't say he wanted to stay as a member of the single market.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33He did say he wanted easy movement, rather than free movement,
0:17:33 > 0:17:35whatever that means.
0:17:35 > 0:17:39The man up there, three down on the gangway.
0:17:39 > 0:17:41You, sir.
0:17:41 > 0:17:42Yes.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45The EU are never going to give us a good deal because,
0:17:45 > 0:17:48whatever we think is a good deal, it's a bad deal for them.
0:17:48 > 0:17:49Not necessarily.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52So all this bickering, when you are having a go
0:17:52 > 0:17:55at Theresa May, weak as she is at the moment, you are
0:17:55 > 0:17:56just undermining our country
0:17:56 > 0:18:00and our so-called chance to try and get a good deal.
0:18:00 > 0:18:01Brian, you want to say something.
0:18:01 > 0:18:03Robert, I mean.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05Well, I don't think that's true at all.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08A bad deal for us doesn't mean it's a good deal
0:18:08 > 0:18:09for Europe or vice versa.
0:18:09 > 0:18:12In fact, a good deal for both of us would be...
0:18:12 > 0:18:15They can't give us a good deal because it looks bad on them.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18There is a future here for the whole of Western Europe,
0:18:18 > 0:18:21including Britain, to actually live in a way which is going to be
0:18:21 > 0:18:23mutually satisfactory, and it's very foolish to think
0:18:23 > 0:18:27in terms of what is a good deal for us is a bad deal
0:18:27 > 0:18:28for them or vice versa.
0:18:28 > 0:18:29That's not how it works.
0:18:29 > 0:18:32That's not how dealership works.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35I have to say, it's all very well talking about trust,
0:18:35 > 0:18:38but the difficulty of course is that, if you have a very weak
0:18:38 > 0:18:40and undermined Prime Minister, these debates
0:18:40 > 0:18:43which we are having in Parliament at the moment look rather stark,
0:18:43 > 0:18:45but they need to be had.
0:18:45 > 0:18:47They are really essential.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50At the moment, to the gentleman over there who is worried about financial
0:18:50 > 0:18:53things in Yorkshire, believe me, I understand that.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55I have a huge love for Yorkshire.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58I've spent a lot of my working time in Yorkshire.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01But the fact is you also want cancer treatment in Yorkshire,
0:19:01 > 0:19:04and there's a real risk that the machines and the drugs
0:19:04 > 0:19:07and the other things that we need, such as the isotopes,
0:19:07 > 0:19:09will not be available to us unless we actually drive
0:19:09 > 0:19:11a very difficult bargain, and that's a very
0:19:11 > 0:19:15complicated issues.
0:19:15 > 0:19:18You are in the House of Lords, and the stories are that the House
0:19:18 > 0:19:21of Lords are going to be much rougher on anything Theresa May
0:19:21 > 0:19:23comes back with, or David Davis comes back with,
0:19:23 > 0:19:24than the House of Commons.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26Is that true, do you think?
0:19:26 > 0:19:28I was rather hoping you weren't going to raise that!
0:19:28 > 0:19:32One of the issues about the vote last night is it does drive a chink
0:19:32 > 0:19:34through the debate when it comes to the House of Lords.
0:19:34 > 0:19:37You're going to come back to your report stage presumably
0:19:37 > 0:19:38in the Commons anyway.
0:19:38 > 0:19:39That will be the next stage.
0:19:39 > 0:19:43But eventually this will have to go through both Houses of Parliament,
0:19:43 > 0:19:47and I think the House of Lords may take a very, a more collected view
0:19:47 > 0:19:49than actually what has happened in the Commons,
0:19:49 > 0:19:52because I think a lot of the things which were represented in that
0:19:52 > 0:19:57debate yesterday from the people who I saw speaking so volubly
0:19:57 > 0:20:00and so well are often reflected in many debates we have
0:20:00 > 0:20:02in the House of Lords.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05To cut to the chase, is this, as some people may suspect,
0:20:05 > 0:20:08the beginning of a movement that will lead us not
0:20:08 > 0:20:11actually leaving the EU?
0:20:11 > 0:20:14This comes back to the problem with the referendum.
0:20:14 > 0:20:16I notice you don't say no.
0:20:16 > 0:20:21Well, I'll come to that, if I may.
0:20:21 > 0:20:24One of the problems is this shows the foolishness of having
0:20:24 > 0:20:26a vote like a referendum, which was a referendum
0:20:26 > 0:20:27with a simple yes.
0:20:27 > 0:20:29Why is it foolish?
0:20:29 > 0:20:31Over a complicated issue.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33It's very unsatisfactory, and we are seeing some
0:20:33 > 0:20:34of the results of that.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37It's something that the House of Lords tried to prevent very hard.
0:20:37 > 0:20:39The House of Lords was pretty wise.
0:20:39 > 0:20:40We put down innumerable amendments which would have
0:20:40 > 0:20:42prevented this happening.
0:20:42 > 0:20:43You haven't answered my question.
0:20:43 > 0:20:44You think it might not happen.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46It could possibly, but I think it's very unlikely.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48If it doesn't happen, Nicky Morgan will be
0:20:48 > 0:20:49the first step towards that.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51I think that's up to Nicky Morgan.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54I don't think so.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56Look, it's going to happen.
0:20:56 > 0:20:57We're going to leave the European Union.
0:20:57 > 0:21:00But what you've been involved in is the beginning of the death
0:21:00 > 0:21:01of Brexit by 1000 amendments.
0:21:01 > 0:21:02No, it's not.
0:21:02 > 0:21:04They're going to try and strangle...
0:21:04 > 0:21:05I think it's dangerous.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08There was a massive turnout, and it's not a zero-sum game.
0:21:08 > 0:21:15What they realise, there wasn't the will in the country
0:21:15 > 0:21:17for a second referendum, and they'd try to do it
0:21:17 > 0:21:20a different but there was a huge turnout for this.
0:21:20 > 0:21:22There was a clear majority, admittedly not a huge majority,
0:21:22 > 0:21:24and I think the democratic consequences of this,
0:21:24 > 0:21:25it's not a zero-sum game.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28I don't think it's the same as somebody like Farage that thinks
0:21:28 > 0:21:30that there will be civil disobedience, because I think this
0:21:30 > 0:21:33country is better than that, but I think there may be
0:21:33 > 0:21:34disengagement and people may start looking
0:21:34 > 0:21:35for more radical parties.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38I entirely agree with you that actually, if this were not happen,
0:21:38 > 0:21:41leaving the European Union, it would, as Members of Parliament,
0:21:41 > 0:21:43it would totally undermine the democracy and the vote we have
0:21:43 > 0:21:46had, and that is why I voted to trigger Article 50,
0:21:46 > 0:21:49I voted to give the EU Withdrawal Bill its second
0:21:49 > 0:21:51reading, I voted to repeal the European Communities Act 1972.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53But yes, I would like Parliament to be involved
0:21:53 > 0:21:54in the process going forward.
0:21:54 > 0:21:56The gentleman up here talked about representatives.
0:21:56 > 0:21:58That's exactly what we have, a representative democracy.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00You're also right to say that, on that ballot paper,
0:22:00 > 0:22:02there were only two options, Leave or Remain.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05It didn't say how we were going to leave, nor the deal
0:22:05 > 0:22:07that we are going to get.
0:22:07 > 0:22:11The woman in the second row from the back.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13People on the panel talked about trust, and other people
0:22:13 > 0:22:16in the audience have said the vote last night takes away the power
0:22:16 > 0:22:17from the people negotiating.
0:22:17 > 0:22:19I don't trust David Davis and Theresa May
0:22:19 > 0:22:21to negotiate a deal for me.
0:22:21 > 0:22:22APPLAUSE.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24I didn't vote for them.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27I voted for my MP in Parliament, and my MP in Parliament should be
0:22:27 > 0:22:31part of scrutinising whatever deal we should get.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34And you, sir.
0:22:34 > 0:22:35All of this is irrelevant anyway.
0:22:35 > 0:22:37It doesn't matter that 11 Conservative MPs
0:22:37 > 0:22:38revolted last night.
0:22:38 > 0:22:40It doesn't matter what Labour or the Conservatives think.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43The decision for Brexit is going to come down to the DUP,
0:22:43 > 0:22:45who can't even keep a devolved government in Ireland together.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47That's the problem.
0:22:47 > 0:22:49The man in blue.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51Let's hear some more members of the audience.
0:22:51 > 0:22:52A lot of hands are up.
0:22:52 > 0:22:54In the third row from the back.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57Because of the way MPs voted last night, they have massively
0:22:57 > 0:23:06increased our chances of getting no deal,
0:23:06 > 0:23:09increased our chances of getting no deal, because the amount of time it
0:23:09 > 0:23:11takes for an act of Parliament to be
0:23:11 > 0:23:13passed and for there to be approval
0:23:13 > 0:23:16from MPs, it takes a while, and we are unlikely to get a deal
0:23:16 > 0:23:22until late in March 2019, looking at it positively,
0:23:22 > 0:23:24and so then you've got to pass an act
0:23:24 > 0:23:28of Parliament, so there's a massive chance that we are going to get
0:23:28 > 0:23:31to 29th of March 2019 and we're not going to have a deal and we're just
0:23:31 > 0:23:35going to go off a cliff edge, and that's mainly because of the way
0:23:35 > 0:23:36MPs voted last night.
0:23:36 > 0:23:40And do you think it would be off a cliff edge, or do you think it
0:23:40 > 0:23:42would just be an extended year or two of negotiation?
0:23:42 > 0:23:44They talked about transition, but none of that's been confirmed
0:23:44 > 0:23:47yet so, as it stands, if MPs are going to vote
0:23:47 > 0:23:50like that, we're just going to go off a cliff edge.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52It's an important point.
0:23:52 > 0:23:54It is an important point, and there are three things
0:23:54 > 0:23:56I want to say in response.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58Firstly, the government had already conceded several weeks ago
0:23:58 > 0:24:01that we were going to have an act of Parliament which would approve
0:24:01 > 0:24:03the withdrawal agreement.
0:24:03 > 0:24:04Secondly, acts of Parliament can be got
0:24:04 > 0:24:07through both houses very speedily.
0:24:07 > 0:24:11Third, the European Parliament is expecting their voting process
0:24:11 > 0:24:12to start next autumn, October 2018.
0:24:12 > 0:24:14Obviously, it's a big challenge to negotiate everything
0:24:14 > 0:24:16and have the detail, but that's what everyone
0:24:16 > 0:24:18is aiming for.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21The fourth thing is that you've just proven why the amendment
0:24:21 > 0:24:24that is down for having a hard date of the 29th of March 2019
0:24:24 > 0:24:2711pm is not a good idea, and it's because things can just
0:24:27 > 0:24:30take a little bit longer.
0:24:30 > 0:24:33We saw that with the way Theresa May worked when she had the knock back
0:24:33 > 0:24:35at the start of last week.
0:24:35 > 0:24:37She worked and worked, moved away from the negotiating
0:24:37 > 0:24:40deadline the EU had set, she got to last Friday and she got
0:24:40 > 0:24:42a deal to get us on to phase two.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45It doesn't help that you are trying to delay the process.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47No, I'm not trying to delay the process.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49All we are saying is what the audience have said,
0:24:49 > 0:24:51which is that the campaign was about taking back control.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54Control is going to come back to this sovereign Parliament,
0:24:54 > 0:24:57where representatives have been elected by Members of Parliament.
0:24:57 > 0:24:59You, sir, in the spectacles.
0:24:59 > 0:25:04I voted to leave, but one of the things is I did realise
0:25:04 > 0:25:14that it's going to be a complicated situation.
0:25:14 > 0:25:18It is not going to happen overnight, and some people think you vote yes,
0:25:18 > 0:25:19we're going to leave, away we go.
0:25:19 > 0:25:20It doesn't work like that.
0:25:20 > 0:25:24There's too much to sort out, too much to agree, and too much
0:25:24 > 0:25:25importance on our poverty.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27We've got enough as it is now.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29We don't want to have any more.
0:25:29 > 0:25:33If we can sort it out so we get a better deal,
0:25:33 > 0:25:35we get better trade, then so be it.
0:25:35 > 0:25:39And what's your view about the role Parliament should play,
0:25:39 > 0:25:41as Nicky Morgan has expressed it?
0:25:41 > 0:25:43I think they should vote on the final.
0:25:43 > 0:25:44That's why we elect people.
0:25:44 > 0:25:46If we don't like what they say, we deselect them.
0:25:46 > 0:25:49APPLAUSE.
0:25:49 > 0:25:50It's easy.
0:25:50 > 0:25:53The man up there on the gangway, in pink.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56The difficulty is that we set off on the wrong foot.
0:25:56 > 0:26:01For me, this was an issue of national importance,
0:26:01 > 0:26:04and I believe at that point we should have had a cross-party
0:26:04 > 0:26:06committee, all sides represented.
0:26:06 > 0:26:16The difficulty is we've got one party representing us
0:26:16 > 0:26:18in Europe, and I think that's just quite narrow minded.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21I know why I elected my MP, and I voted to leave
0:26:21 > 0:26:24purely on those grounds, that we would have the capacity
0:26:24 > 0:26:26to go out there and negotiate with cross-party representation,
0:26:26 > 0:26:29so I think, up to a point, I agree with you, Nicky.
0:26:29 > 0:26:31I do actually believe you're not representing your constituency
0:26:31 > 0:26:37properly, because they are obviously a Leave constituency.
0:26:37 > 0:26:38Debatable.
0:26:38 > 0:26:40I think you were right last night.
0:26:40 > 0:26:42I think we need to debate it.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45As for scrutiny, I think the media will do its role.
0:26:45 > 0:26:50I think Brexit will be scrutinised more than anything.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53And the man on the other side of the gangway, and then
0:26:53 > 0:26:54we'll come back to you.
0:26:54 > 0:26:58I do believe that the Tories didn't have any game plan.
0:26:58 > 0:27:00Initially, the first round talks, can they tell us what they actually
0:27:00 > 0:27:03got out of the first round talks?
0:27:03 > 0:27:07It's all EU giveaways.
0:27:07 > 0:27:09The EU let us off the 35 million.
0:27:09 > 0:27:11Initially, they wanted about 80 million or so.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13Figures were being bandied around.
0:27:13 > 0:27:16Or 80 billion, sorry.
0:27:16 > 0:27:18So what is it that David Davis achieved
0:27:18 > 0:27:19in the first round of talks?
0:27:19 > 0:27:23Can they tell us that?
0:27:23 > 0:27:26So I applaud you for sticking out and making sure that we review
0:27:26 > 0:27:27whatever they bring back.
0:27:27 > 0:27:28Isabel Oakeshott.
0:27:28 > 0:27:32Well, I think, this is a really good point, and no one should feel that,
0:27:32 > 0:27:35just because we originally thought we'd have to pay 70 or 80 billion,
0:27:35 > 0:27:3635 is actually fantastic.
0:27:36 > 0:27:38It's still an awful lot of money.
0:27:38 > 0:27:42But we have to be pragmatic about these things.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45I want to pick up on what Lord Winston was saying,
0:27:45 > 0:27:47because I thought it was really interesting that he wasn't actually
0:27:47 > 0:27:51denying the possibility that Brexit might not happen.
0:27:51 > 0:27:55And there are other Labour peers for whom I have a great respect,
0:27:55 > 0:28:01for example, Lord Adonis, who said today that last night
0:28:01 > 0:28:04result was the first step towards stopping Brexit.
0:28:04 > 0:28:06We should not make any mistake about how powerful the vested
0:28:06 > 0:28:10interests are in making sure that we stay in the EU,
0:28:10 > 0:28:14and they will stop at nothing, make no mistake.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17APPLAUSE.
0:28:20 > 0:28:23Isabel, forgive me.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26I love Andrew Adonis, he's a lovely man,
0:28:26 > 0:28:29but I completely disagree with him.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32I was asked a straight question, whether this would make any
0:28:32 > 0:28:34difference, and of course it's absolutely impossible
0:28:34 > 0:28:37to predict the future.
0:28:37 > 0:28:41Clearly, there is a momentum, to use perhaps the wrong word...
0:28:41 > 0:28:44With a small M, rather than a large one.
0:28:44 > 0:28:48Yes, which might in fact leave a chink for that possibility.
0:28:48 > 0:28:52Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is an issue,
0:28:52 > 0:28:53but it's inevitable, when you have a parliamentary
0:28:53 > 0:28:54discussion, that things change.
0:28:54 > 0:28:56That's all I'm saying.
0:28:56 > 0:29:00I'm not saying I'm supporting not having Brexit.
0:29:00 > 0:29:02And I'm certainly not supporting Andrew Adonis.
0:29:02 > 0:29:04Andrew Adonis is his own man.
0:29:04 > 0:29:07I'll take a couple more points and then we'll move on.
0:29:07 > 0:29:11From you, and then I'll come to you in the front row.
0:29:11 > 0:29:14Nicky points out that it's got to stop, that
0:29:14 > 0:29:18within minutes of them voting, Anna Soubry and others
0:29:18 > 0:29:21were tweeting out, now we can stop in the single market, customs union.
0:29:21 > 0:29:2345 minutes later, the EU chief negotiator tweeted it out,
0:29:23 > 0:29:26so if he thinks it's a good idea, it suggests it's an
0:29:26 > 0:29:29establishment stitch up.
0:29:29 > 0:29:31Right.
0:29:31 > 0:29:33And do you agree with that?
0:29:33 > 0:29:34No?
0:29:34 > 0:29:36No.
0:29:36 > 0:29:38I've got dual nationality.
0:29:38 > 0:29:45I'm both a British citizen and a European national.
0:29:45 > 0:29:47I'd like to know if this is an opportunity to rethink
0:29:47 > 0:29:51and reboot Europe, and what place in Europe will Britain have?
0:29:51 > 0:29:53You can't deny the history you've had for thousands of years,
0:29:53 > 0:29:58so what happens next?
0:29:58 > 0:30:00And what do you think should happen?
0:30:00 > 0:30:02I'm not the politician.
0:30:02 > 0:30:03You are glad you have dual nationality?
0:30:03 > 0:30:05I am, yes.
0:30:05 > 0:30:07Yes.
0:30:07 > 0:30:08Just before we go, Rebecca Long-Bailey,
0:30:08 > 0:30:11you haven't spoken for a bit.
0:30:11 > 0:30:15What do you say to this idea that behind all of this is a challenge
0:30:15 > 0:30:16from an establishment, whatever that might be,
0:30:16 > 0:30:22to see off the idea of Brexit and to find a way of procrastinating
0:30:22 > 0:30:26so that in the end we don't actually quite leave?
0:30:26 > 0:30:29No.
0:30:29 > 0:30:31I think the vast majority of MPs in Parliament
0:30:31 > 0:30:34respect the referendum, as I do, we want to make sure that
0:30:34 > 0:30:36Brexit is delivered and we want an economy first Brexit.
0:30:36 > 0:30:39Now what is interesting about last night was that it was
0:30:39 > 0:30:40an embarrassment for the Prime Minister.
0:30:40 > 0:30:42It showed she couldn't hold her Government together.
0:30:42 > 0:30:46It puts pressure on her now to work on a cross party basis and make sure
0:30:46 > 0:30:49that people's concerns are actually listened to and that she can put
0:30:49 > 0:30:52forward a final deal that satisfies as many people as possible
0:30:52 > 0:30:55and delivers the best deal possible because nobody wants to vote
0:30:55 > 0:30:58against a deal and nobody that I've spoken to, there might be a small
0:30:58 > 0:31:04minority that want no-deal as an option but the vast majority
0:31:04 > 0:31:06don't want no-deal.
0:31:06 > 0:31:16Rebecca, your party embarrasses itself every single day on Brexit.
0:31:18 > 0:31:20I'm compltely confused about your party's position.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22It changes with the wind.
0:31:22 > 0:31:24Do you want to leave the single markets?
0:31:24 > 0:31:26We recognise that when we leave the European Union we come out
0:31:26 > 0:31:27of the single market.
0:31:27 > 0:31:29I think that's quite clear.
0:31:29 > 0:31:32Do you want free movement, easy movement, what is it?
0:31:32 > 0:31:34I already made the point, you should have been paying attention...
0:31:34 > 0:31:35APPLAUSE.
0:31:35 > 0:31:37It made no more sense to me.
0:31:37 > 0:31:39I stated we recognise that free movement would end,
0:31:39 > 0:31:42we recognise there have been abuses, the undercutting of wages
0:31:42 > 0:31:45through the use of agency staff that have been brought over to the UK
0:31:45 > 0:31:47on the other hand is not acceptable and we need
0:31:47 > 0:31:50to have a system of reasonable and fair managed migration.
0:31:50 > 0:31:53You can't possibly say the Tory position is shambolic
0:31:53 > 0:31:56though because yours is.
0:31:56 > 0:31:57But it is.
0:31:57 > 0:31:58All right.
0:31:58 > 0:31:59We must stop.
0:31:59 > 0:32:01The man in the centre.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04You want to pick up on what they were saying.
0:32:04 > 0:32:05The man here?
0:32:05 > 0:32:08It's obviously going to go through Parliament but obviously
0:32:08 > 0:32:10listening to Lord Winston, you are going to have problems
0:32:10 > 0:32:13in the House of Lords with all the amendments so it's
0:32:13 > 0:32:16going to go on and on from one Parliament to the next.
0:32:16 > 0:32:19I can tell the man clearly states there's going to be
0:32:19 > 0:32:21problems with the Lord's...
0:32:21 > 0:32:22So abolish the Lord's or abolish Parliament?
0:32:22 > 0:32:26We are not saying abolish the Lord's but divisions are at the table.
0:32:26 > 0:32:28OK.
0:32:28 > 0:32:32Before we start.
0:32:32 > 0:32:35Was that abolish Parliament or abolish the House of Lords -
0:32:35 > 0:32:36I wasn't quite sure.
0:32:36 > 0:32:37You, Sir?
0:32:37 > 0:32:43I think that all the politicians right on the day after
0:32:43 > 0:32:49the referendum never ever expected the result that they
0:32:49 > 0:32:52got and that's why...
0:32:52 > 0:32:55APPLAUSE.
0:32:55 > 0:32:59And that's why I think everyone of them from all parties looked
0:32:59 > 0:33:03in the mirror that following morning and said right, guys,
0:33:03 > 0:33:10girls, what's in it for me and how can further myself.
0:33:10 > 0:33:11So confusion reigned, in other words?
0:33:11 > 0:33:12Yes.
0:33:12 > 0:33:15One more point from there, at the top on the right?
0:33:15 > 0:33:16Thank you.
0:33:16 > 0:33:19I do believe that following the referendum, and especially
0:33:19 > 0:33:22coming from Barnsley myself, that there seems to be an irrational
0:33:22 > 0:33:27fear that the United Kingdom is incapable of standing
0:33:27 > 0:33:31on its own in the world.
0:33:31 > 0:33:37It's definitely resonant in offices throughout
0:33:37 > 0:33:40the UK on the street, in the pub, having a beer, smoke,
0:33:40 > 0:33:42whatever you are doing.
0:33:42 > 0:33:46People don't want - I personally believe people don't
0:33:46 > 0:33:49want to argue that all right, we'll go with the extreme left
0:33:49 > 0:33:51policies, the extreme right policies.
0:33:51 > 0:33:54At the end of the day, we are leaving the European Union.
0:33:54 > 0:33:59Well, I believe we are, based on the vote that we took.
0:33:59 > 0:34:02The vote that you put.
0:34:02 > 0:34:04You voted Brexit, did you?
0:34:04 > 0:34:05Erm...
0:34:05 > 0:34:06You don't have to say?
0:34:06 > 0:34:10I'm going to admit that yes I did vote for Brexit, yes.
0:34:10 > 0:34:15I'm not going to say that I did it reluctantly,
0:34:15 > 0:34:18I have been a vehement left wingser the majority of my life,
0:34:18 > 0:34:20especially coming from Barnsley and being an ethnic minority.
0:34:20 > 0:34:26I just think that, as we progress, I do believe that there really
0:34:26 > 0:34:30is an irrational fear that the United Kingdom cannot
0:34:30 > 0:34:34survive without some sort of attachment or allegiance
0:34:34 > 0:34:36to the European Union.
0:34:36 > 0:34:46Please, just thereon the will of the people
0:34:48 > 0:34:50Please, just listen to the will of the people
0:34:50 > 0:34:52and leave the European Union.
0:34:52 > 0:34:53OK.
0:34:53 > 0:34:54APPLAUSE.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57Right, well, I think we'd better move on because we are half way
0:34:57 > 0:34:58through the programme.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01Just before we go on to another question, I should say,
0:35:01 > 0:35:03we are not on next week, we are off for Christmas.
0:35:03 > 0:35:06We are back in January, we are going to be in Islington
0:35:06 > 0:35:12in London and the week after that in herred for and on the screen
0:35:12 > 0:35:15in London and the week after that in Hereford and on the screen
0:35:15 > 0:35:17are the details of how to apply.
0:35:17 > 0:35:20Let's have a complete change of subject and have a question
0:35:20 > 0:35:21from Linda Wilson, please?
0:35:21 > 0:35:22Yes.
0:35:22 > 0:35:25Should the Government fund voucher payments of up to £200 to encourage
0:35:25 > 0:35:26women to breast-feed their babies?
0:35:26 > 0:35:27Good Lord...
0:35:27 > 0:35:28You are all looking surprised.
0:35:28 > 0:35:29I couldn't hear the question.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32Should the Government fund voucher payments of £200 to encourage
0:35:32 > 0:35:33mothers to breast-feed their babies.
0:35:33 > 0:35:38It's rather up your street.
0:35:38 > 0:35:42And this was a policy that's been experimented with here,
0:35:42 > 0:35:44come from Sheffield university.
0:35:44 > 0:35:46Yes, I know.
0:35:46 > 0:35:48I'm aware of the data.
0:35:48 > 0:35:52And the idea is that you pay mothers to breast-feed and this leads
0:35:52 > 0:35:55to a healthier child.
0:35:55 > 0:35:58We've got I think three mothers round the table and many
0:35:58 > 0:35:59mothers here, no doubt.
0:35:59 > 0:36:01Let's go to you.
0:36:01 > 0:36:03You are the child expert?
0:36:03 > 0:36:06First of all, I think it's a policy that wouldn't work,
0:36:06 > 0:36:09but more importantly, what we need to do is to persuade
0:36:09 > 0:36:15people why it's good to breast-feed and to point out that the value
0:36:15 > 0:36:18to the baby is really very considerable in all sorts of ways,
0:36:18 > 0:36:21not only in its nutrition but also in its defence against
0:36:21 > 0:36:23infection and indeed in its bonding with its mother.
0:36:23 > 0:36:32Now, paying people does not improve the bonding for a start,
0:36:32 > 0:36:34and so there is a disconnect here with this thinking.
0:36:34 > 0:36:37I think it's very clear that one of the problems with this campaign,
0:36:37 > 0:36:40and the real difficulty, is that because the NHS
0:36:40 > 0:36:44is increasingly strapped with staff which are desperately needed,
0:36:44 > 0:36:46the midwives and nursing staff who'd normally help women who're
0:36:46 > 0:36:49inconfident of breast-feeding are not always there and this has
0:36:49 > 0:36:57been shown again and again that if you have proper support
0:36:57 > 0:36:59for mothers who are breast-feeding or who're prepared
0:36:59 > 0:37:02to try breast-feeding, it makes a massive difference to how
0:37:02 > 0:37:03long they'll breast-feed for.
0:37:03 > 0:37:05What happens at the present time, I'm afraid, ladies and gentlemen,
0:37:05 > 0:37:09is a large number of women get very frightened or feel very vulnerable,
0:37:09 > 0:37:10feel like they're not feeding their baby properly
0:37:10 > 0:37:13and the baby's going to starve so they give up breast-feeding
0:37:13 > 0:37:14and take the bottle.
0:37:14 > 0:37:15That's not ideal.
0:37:15 > 0:37:16Paying is not the answer.
0:37:16 > 0:37:18What is needed is much better medical care.
0:37:18 > 0:37:22They say there was a slight increase in the number of women in this area.
0:37:22 > 0:37:25Maybe, but, you know, the trouble is, unless you have a good
0:37:25 > 0:37:26comparitor with a properly controlled trial -
0:37:26 > 0:37:28these figures are very suspect.
0:37:28 > 0:37:31The woman at the back there, then we'll go around the panel.
0:37:31 > 0:37:35I think it's a misnomer to say it's down to funding now.
0:37:35 > 0:37:38I had my children 20 years ago and the support then
0:37:38 > 0:37:42for breast-feeding was very poor.
0:37:42 > 0:37:45There was very little support indeed and I think one of the big problems
0:37:45 > 0:37:48is that women don't feel comfortable feeding in public because it's
0:37:48 > 0:37:50ridiculous but there's still a problem with breast-feeding
0:37:50 > 0:37:53in public, including I believe in the House of Commons.
0:37:53 > 0:37:55I believe that women aren't allowed to feed babies
0:37:55 > 0:37:57in the House of Commons.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00I may be wrong, but if that's the case, that's ridiculous.
0:38:00 > 0:38:01That's not true.
0:38:01 > 0:38:03That taboo was broken, wasn't it?
0:38:03 > 0:38:05Yes.
0:38:05 > 0:38:06Elaine Hayman.
0:38:06 > 0:38:09I don't know about the chamber, I have to say.
0:38:09 > 0:38:12Obviously in the building and everything else,
0:38:12 > 0:38:16it probably has been done and I hope it wouldn't be a problem
0:38:16 > 0:38:18if it were to be done.
0:38:18 > 0:38:21But the point is right, this issue of sensitivity
0:38:21 > 0:38:26about showing breasts in public and so on, it's a cultural issue
0:38:26 > 0:38:32unfortunately and this is a very negative comment on our society.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34Breast-feeding is good, it's healthy and it should be
0:38:34 > 0:38:37permitted in public and we have to encourage it.
0:38:37 > 0:38:40APPLAUSE.
0:38:40 > 0:38:45Isabel Oakeshott?
0:38:45 > 0:38:50I would like to give a slightly different point of view on this.
0:38:50 > 0:38:52I think it's time that we ended the breast-feeding tyranny.
0:38:52 > 0:38:55I have three children, I'm one of a very small minority.
0:38:55 > 0:38:58I think it's about 2% of women who actually physically did not
0:38:58 > 0:39:02produce milk and I'd gone to my NCT classes, I was desperate
0:39:02 > 0:39:06to breast-feed, I'd had all the information.
0:39:06 > 0:39:09I know it's nutritionally the best, I wish I could have done it,
0:39:09 > 0:39:14you couldn't do it and I felt absolutely awful about it.
0:39:14 > 0:39:16It was heartbreaking and really difficult.
0:39:16 > 0:39:20And you know what, once I introduced bottle-feeding and powdered milk,
0:39:20 > 0:39:23my baby thrived, my other children have thrived, there is nothing
0:39:23 > 0:39:26wrong with powdered milk, it is liberating for women,
0:39:26 > 0:39:30they should not be made to feel failures if they cannot breast-feed.
0:39:30 > 0:39:36APPLAUSE.
0:39:38 > 0:39:40I can't believe that I'm going to say this
0:39:40 > 0:39:42but I actually agree with you.
0:39:42 > 0:39:47Now, I'm a mum and I did feed my children myself
0:39:47 > 0:39:49until they were at least a year old.
0:39:49 > 0:39:53I found every single day, every single feed hard work.
0:39:53 > 0:39:54It was hellish.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56However there is a point I would like to make
0:39:56 > 0:39:58here and I speak with some experience on this.
0:39:58 > 0:40:03How many of the panel understand that there is artificial price
0:40:03 > 0:40:07fixing of infant formula milk.
0:40:07 > 0:40:10There is legislation that exists today that means
0:40:10 > 0:40:12that the supermarkets cannot sell below cost.
0:40:12 > 0:40:16That has led to artificial price-fixing between the producers
0:40:16 > 0:40:20and the manufacturers.
0:40:20 > 0:40:23It is no surprise that there is no own labelled brand
0:40:23 > 0:40:28on the market for those reasons because they are also held to ransom
0:40:28 > 0:40:35by certain individuals and certain campaigners that really do undermine
0:40:35 > 0:40:38women's choices as to whether to breast-feed or not.
0:40:38 > 0:40:42Rebecca Long-Bailey, did you know that that was...
0:40:42 > 0:40:45It's a very interesting concept and I'm hesitant to say that I agree
0:40:45 > 0:40:54slightly with all of the comments that have been made by all
0:40:54 > 0:40:55of the panelist so far.
0:40:55 > 0:40:58I think that in terms of the support available to women,
0:40:58 > 0:41:01certainly when I was a mother five years ago, I've got a five-year-old
0:41:01 > 0:41:04little boy, I found there was very little support in terms
0:41:04 > 0:41:05of breast-feeding advice.
0:41:05 > 0:41:07When I did find that advice I found it was heavily
0:41:07 > 0:41:09weighted in all-or-nothing, you had to breast-feed,
0:41:09 > 0:41:10breast-feed, breast-feed, there was no encouragement
0:41:10 > 0:41:12to mix things up.
0:41:12 > 0:41:19My husband wanted to be a hands on parent and share the burden
0:41:19 > 0:41:21of feeding my son and I felt bad for mixing it up.
0:41:21 > 0:41:23We tried it ourselves, it worked.
0:41:23 > 0:41:26It's not done him any harm, he's a strapping lad so far.
0:41:26 > 0:41:28But the other issue I think, and Robert's touch on this.
0:41:28 > 0:41:30There is a funding crisis in the NHS.
0:41:30 > 0:41:33This information should be readily available through public health
0:41:33 > 0:41:36outlets but public health's seen the greatest cuts it's
0:41:36 > 0:41:38seen in a generation.
0:41:38 > 0:41:46We have got the vast majority of our hospital Trusts
0:41:46 > 0:41:48on the edge a cliff, 61% of acute hospitals
0:41:48 > 0:41:50are in deficit at the moment.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53We have had cuts to the likes of which we have never seen
0:41:53 > 0:41:55before to our NHS budgets.
0:41:55 > 0:41:58£6.3 billion from social care, £600 million from mental health.
0:41:58 > 0:41:59And the NHS was also asked...
0:41:59 > 0:42:05I'm coming to it.
0:42:05 > 0:42:07Was also asked to make £22 billion in efficiency savings.
0:42:07 > 0:42:10We were talking before, the audience said to me, as chair,
0:42:10 > 0:42:12can't you get them to answer the question we ask.
0:42:12 > 0:42:13APPLAUSE.
0:42:13 > 0:42:17The point that...
0:42:17 > 0:42:20And not just talk about anything they want to talk about.
0:42:20 > 0:42:22The question was about milk.
0:42:22 > 0:42:24No.
0:42:24 > 0:42:27The point I'm trying to make is that we are talking about NHS
0:42:27 > 0:42:29vouchers for breast-feeding.
0:42:29 > 0:42:30£200.
0:42:30 > 0:42:33They should already have the support through our public health.
0:42:33 > 0:42:36We don't due to NHS funding cuts.
0:42:36 > 0:42:39The woman at the very back there, please?
0:42:39 > 0:42:41The question is about breast-feeding.
0:42:41 > 0:42:44It's not about money.
0:42:44 > 0:42:46Why do we have to incentivise everything.
0:42:46 > 0:42:50Stop making it about money, it's about culture of being able
0:42:50 > 0:42:54to breast-feed and not shaming anybody should they not be able to.
0:42:54 > 0:42:58I couldn't agree more and I also think the idea there is not
0:42:58 > 0:43:01pressure on new mums to breast-feed is ridiculous.
0:43:01 > 0:43:04Midwives do a fantastic job, but the way they keep saying,
0:43:04 > 0:43:08it's your choice, it's up to you, it ends up sounding like a Mafia
0:43:08 > 0:43:10thing, but it's up to you, we won't judge you.
0:43:10 > 0:43:11They keep saying that.
0:43:11 > 0:43:16They put a lot of pressure on my wife and I was sympathetic to that.
0:43:16 > 0:43:24I also think it's a bizarre idea, £200.
0:43:24 > 0:43:26Where's the verification for this, do you do
0:43:26 > 0:43:28it price per litre - I've no idea.
0:43:28 > 0:43:29Do you interrogate the child?
0:43:29 > 0:43:30It's just...
0:43:30 > 0:43:31APPLAUSE.
0:43:31 > 0:43:34I couldn't agree more with the lady here, it's about where
0:43:34 > 0:43:35is personal responsibility.
0:43:35 > 0:43:37There are so many pressures on the NHS.
0:43:37 > 0:43:40We often talk about funding and the service itself but not
0:43:40 > 0:43:42the undue demands that people are increasingly making on the NHS
0:43:42 > 0:43:44through avoidable illnesses, through missing doctor appointments.
0:43:44 > 0:43:46You are going off track.
0:43:46 > 0:43:54The NHS, we want it to care for us, we've got to do more to care for it,
0:43:54 > 0:43:56that involves taking personal responsibility for your own health.
0:43:56 > 0:43:57OK.
0:43:57 > 0:44:01We'll go on.
0:44:01 > 0:44:04I would like to take a question now from Kian Cross, please?
0:44:04 > 0:44:07What should be done to tackle the rise in homelessness.
0:44:07 > 0:44:10What should be done - a very straightforward question -
0:44:10 > 0:44:12to tackle the rise in homelessness.
0:44:12 > 0:44:15I was going to ask you to start on that?
0:44:15 > 0:44:18I've voted Conservative for a long time.
0:44:18 > 0:44:20It's not a blanket endorsement of everything they do.
0:44:20 > 0:44:27I gig a lot and tour in towns and cities across the UK and it's
0:44:27 > 0:44:31palpable over the last few years the rise in homelessness and it's no
0:44:31 > 0:44:33coincidence that in a period where funding's halved,
0:44:33 > 0:44:37homelessness has doubled.
0:44:37 > 0:44:43I know the Government's heads are turned at the moment on Brexit
0:44:43 > 0:44:46and it's a very difficult time around that but it's also a very
0:44:46 > 0:44:49cold time of year and it's coming up to Christmas and it would be good
0:44:49 > 0:44:53if the Government could find a bit of time to give the magic money tree
0:44:53 > 0:44:55a shake and divert some funds towardses homelessness really.
0:44:55 > 0:44:57APPLAUSE.
0:44:57 > 0:44:58Nicky Morgan, emergency funds?
0:44:58 > 0:45:00Would that do it?
0:45:00 > 0:45:03Actually, the Budget, I was just thinking about the numbers.
0:45:03 > 0:45:06Philip Hammond announced in November £28 million for three Housing First
0:45:06 > 0:45:10pilots in Manchester, Liverpool and the West Midlands,
0:45:10 > 0:45:13and these pilots have been very successful about helping.
0:45:13 > 0:45:16There are lots of complex reasons for homelessness,
0:45:16 > 0:45:20and also supporting people to tackle the underlying issues.
0:45:20 > 0:45:23I know as a constituency Member of Parliament people will come
0:45:23 > 0:45:26to you with help for one issue, but there's a lot else going on.
0:45:26 > 0:45:28When you say complex reasons for homelessness,
0:45:28 > 0:45:30isn't not having a home the reason for it?
0:45:30 > 0:45:32Debt, mental health, addictions...
0:45:32 > 0:45:34And houses.
0:45:34 > 0:45:36Alcohol.
0:45:36 > 0:45:40Sorry, how long are the waiting lists in this country for housing?
0:45:40 > 0:45:43I'm afraid I don't have a number, but obviously too long.
0:45:43 > 0:45:47But there are also, just to give a constituency example,
0:45:47 > 0:45:51we have a gentleman who we have helped several times now to get
0:45:51 > 0:45:55a flat, but actually, because of other issues in his life,
0:45:55 > 0:45:59he isn't able to keep it, and his neighbours, there are issues.
0:45:59 > 0:46:03It's very frustrating.
0:46:03 > 0:46:06He has a fabulous officer trying to help him, and every time we think
0:46:06 > 0:46:09we have hopefully got him to the stage where he is taking
0:46:09 > 0:46:11the responsibility of being somewhere, something unfortunately
0:46:11 > 0:46:14happens and we have to start again.
0:46:14 > 0:46:16But you are talking about...
0:46:16 > 0:46:20The figures show 80,000 householders in temporary accommodation,
0:46:20 > 0:46:244,000 rough sleepers or more.
0:46:24 > 0:46:27I mean, one person who has, and obviously I don't
0:46:27 > 0:46:29want to go into the detail, a particular problem,
0:46:29 > 0:46:31it doesn't answer the overall question about homelessness.
0:46:31 > 0:46:34Absolutely, and of course it's too much, we need to build more
0:46:34 > 0:46:36housing and social housing, but it's also about
0:46:36 > 0:46:39dealing with those needs.
0:46:39 > 0:46:41The Housing First pilots, we've committed to the
0:46:41 > 0:46:42Homelessness Reduction Act...
0:46:42 > 0:46:44SHOUTS FROM THE AUDIENCE.
0:46:44 > 0:46:45Just do it!
0:46:45 > 0:46:46Go on, you.
0:46:46 > 0:46:47Just get on with it!
0:46:47 > 0:46:50It's not just one man, it's thousands and thousands of people.
0:46:50 > 0:46:52Of course it is.
0:46:52 > 0:46:53Children, children.
0:46:53 > 0:46:55As you all know...
0:46:55 > 0:46:57We've heard it all, time and time.
0:46:57 > 0:46:58Just do it!
0:46:58 > 0:46:59Get the money and do it.
0:46:59 > 0:47:00The Homelessness Reduction Act...
0:47:00 > 0:47:01Sort it!
0:47:01 > 0:47:04APPLAUSE.
0:47:04 > 0:47:06I'll come back to you.
0:47:06 > 0:47:07Robert Winston.
0:47:07 > 0:47:11Well, I think one of the issues, Nicky, is that people who are living
0:47:11 > 0:47:14in this part of Yorkshire see something very real.
0:47:14 > 0:47:16You know, I've been Chancellor of Sheffield Hallam University,
0:47:16 > 0:47:21my privilege, for the last 15 or so years, and Sheffield
0:47:21 > 0:47:24was not in a great state when I first took the job.
0:47:24 > 0:47:28It's become a much more prosperous, self-confident city with better
0:47:28 > 0:47:31public services and better buildings and so on.
0:47:31 > 0:47:33But one thing that has been really shocking,
0:47:33 > 0:47:36and I noticed it particularly this last two weeks, I spent two weeks
0:47:36 > 0:47:38living in Sheffield, was the number of people living
0:47:38 > 0:47:42on the streets in appalling weather.
0:47:42 > 0:47:45This is something which I haven't seen in South Yorkshire
0:47:45 > 0:47:47to this extent before, and I think we have to accept
0:47:47 > 0:47:50that this question is a very, relevant question to many
0:47:50 > 0:47:51parts of Britain.
0:47:51 > 0:47:53It's certainly true in London.
0:47:53 > 0:47:58I'm afraid it's very true in this part of the world,
0:47:58 > 0:48:00and it's an urgent issue.
0:48:00 > 0:48:03I agree completely, there are a lot of people with strange problems,
0:48:03 > 0:48:04and addiction is obviously one of them.
0:48:04 > 0:48:05One clearly is mental ill-health.
0:48:05 > 0:48:09But there are a lot of people who simply don't have a roof
0:48:09 > 0:48:11over their heads, and we need to do much more about it.
0:48:11 > 0:48:12Isabel.
0:48:12 > 0:48:15APPLAUSE.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18The lady in the front said, just get on with it, just do it.
0:48:18 > 0:48:20I'm going to agree with Nicky here.
0:48:20 > 0:48:23She gave an example of how you can't just do it.
0:48:23 > 0:48:26In some cases, you can't snap your fingers and provide...
0:48:26 > 0:48:29You can find lots of money for other things all of a sudden.
0:48:29 > 0:48:30They have tried very hard...
0:48:30 > 0:48:31Sorry, what did you say?
0:48:31 > 0:48:33They find money for all sorts like that.
0:48:33 > 0:48:35It isn't just a case of money.
0:48:35 > 0:48:36But do it!
0:48:36 > 0:48:38They are.
0:48:38 > 0:48:39One at a time.
0:48:39 > 0:48:40You say...
0:48:40 > 0:48:42Hang on.
0:48:42 > 0:48:45You say that they find money for all sorts of things, yes?
0:48:45 > 0:48:46Is that your point?
0:48:46 > 0:48:47Yes.
0:48:47 > 0:48:48And they could find more money.
0:48:48 > 0:48:52It isn't just a case of money, but I think we have to be
0:48:52 > 0:48:53careful about the way the statistics are used.
0:48:53 > 0:48:55There has been a rise in homelessness...
0:48:55 > 0:48:56Massive, huge.
0:48:56 > 0:48:59And it is deplorable, and particularly at this time of year.
0:48:59 > 0:49:02It is horrible to see people rough sleeping in this freezing weather,
0:49:02 > 0:49:04coming up before Christmas.
0:49:04 > 0:49:06However, the statistics don't always tell the full story.
0:49:06 > 0:49:09There is a difference between homelessness, which is being...
0:49:09 > 0:49:11I've seen it!
0:49:11 > 0:49:13Could you let me finish.
0:49:13 > 0:49:15There is a difference between homelessness and rough
0:49:15 > 0:49:17sleeping, so homelessness is temporary accommodation,
0:49:17 > 0:49:19bed and breakfast.
0:49:19 > 0:49:23That isn't great and I'm not saying it is, but this is a complex issue,
0:49:23 > 0:49:25and I think mental health is a really big issue
0:49:25 > 0:49:27with it and more funding for that, which this
0:49:27 > 0:49:30government is doing.
0:49:30 > 0:49:31OK.
0:49:31 > 0:49:34The man up there on the right.
0:49:34 > 0:49:37I am obviously one of the most evil people on earth,
0:49:37 > 0:49:38because I'm a private landlord.
0:49:38 > 0:49:43The way to solve this homeless problem is get rid of the 3%
0:49:43 > 0:49:46landlord stamp duty, because that stops me buying houses.
0:49:46 > 0:49:49I normally buy one or two houses a year.
0:49:49 > 0:49:51RIPPLE OF LAUGHTER.
0:49:51 > 0:49:53I'll buy every council house and I'll do them up.
0:49:53 > 0:49:55They're in a sorry state.
0:49:55 > 0:49:57They are in a horrible state.
0:49:57 > 0:49:59All right, let him speak.
0:49:59 > 0:50:00Listen to what he's...
0:50:00 > 0:50:03The council don't want to spend...
0:50:03 > 0:50:05Hang on.
0:50:05 > 0:50:08The woman in the centre, let him speak and then I'll come to you,
0:50:08 > 0:50:14if you want to argue with him.
0:50:14 > 0:50:17Be quick if you would, and then we'll go to the lady
0:50:17 > 0:50:18in the centre who shouted out.
0:50:18 > 0:50:20The Government has brought in selective licensing in bits
0:50:20 > 0:50:23of where I own properties, and they are now making people
0:50:23 > 0:50:26upgrade houses beyond the point of what they would have to be
0:50:26 > 0:50:27if they were new-build houses.
0:50:27 > 0:50:29I even had the local housing person telling me
0:50:29 > 0:50:31that they were ridiculous, and quoted me...
0:50:31 > 0:50:35The list of things he wanted me to do to a house, it was £3,000.
0:50:35 > 0:50:37I want to buy houses that first-time buyers don't want to buy,
0:50:37 > 0:50:40and I will do them up, and there's plenty of people
0:50:40 > 0:50:42like me, and then we can have people in homes.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45But you won't do it because you tax us out of existence
0:50:45 > 0:50:47and you put stamp duty on it.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50Let's go to the person who was complaining in the centre.
0:50:50 > 0:50:51It just infuriates me, that, actually.
0:50:51 > 0:50:54We are allowing people such as yourself to buy social housing,
0:50:54 > 0:50:56so we've got people ending up on the streets.
0:50:56 > 0:50:57APPLAUSE.
0:50:57 > 0:51:00While people like you make some profit.
0:51:00 > 0:51:02Making profit at the expense of putting other people
0:51:02 > 0:51:04out on the streets.
0:51:04 > 0:51:06But my profit goes into this government's
0:51:06 > 0:51:10taxes, which they spend.
0:51:10 > 0:51:13We have people on the street so that you can make that profit.
0:51:13 > 0:51:14Why is it...?
0:51:14 > 0:51:17Social housing has been cut and cut, and this government will not
0:51:17 > 0:51:18invest in social housing.
0:51:18 > 0:51:20How is that my fault?
0:51:20 > 0:51:25At this moment in time, we have 120,000 people who are homeless.
0:51:25 > 0:51:30That is a rise of 65% in the last six years.
0:51:30 > 0:51:33Take the stamp duty off then and take the tax and make it fair
0:51:33 > 0:51:36and I'll buy them and I'll put people in them.
0:51:36 > 0:51:37All right.
0:51:37 > 0:51:38Rebecca Long-Bailey.
0:51:38 > 0:51:40You've heard the two sides of the argument.
0:51:40 > 0:51:42The lady in the audience has just made an important point.
0:51:42 > 0:51:46This Christmas, 121,000 children won't have a home.
0:51:46 > 0:51:49Now, that's absolutely disgraceful.
0:51:49 > 0:51:52We know that rough sleeping has doubled since 2010 and,
0:51:52 > 0:51:55at the same time, we've got the lowest level of
0:51:55 > 0:51:58house-building since the 1920s.
0:51:58 > 0:52:00Now, that is an absolutely disgraceful record
0:52:00 > 0:52:01from this government.
0:52:01 > 0:52:04We need to build more affordable homes.
0:52:04 > 0:52:07We need to build more social homes.
0:52:07 > 0:52:10We need to make sure that, if there are right-to-buys
0:52:10 > 0:52:12exercised, that there is a one-in, one-out policy for local
0:52:12 > 0:52:15authorities so that, for every social house sold,
0:52:15 > 0:52:18a new one is built to replace it.
0:52:18 > 0:52:21We need a charter for renters' rights, to make sure
0:52:21 > 0:52:24they are not ripped off by unscrupulous landlords.
0:52:24 > 0:52:26I'm sure the gentleman in the audience is a good landlord,
0:52:26 > 0:52:29but there are some out there who aren't so
0:52:29 > 0:52:30good, shall we say.
0:52:30 > 0:52:33We need to make sure that the quality of housing is fit
0:52:33 > 0:52:34for purpose because, as a constituency MP,
0:52:34 > 0:52:38I have families coming in and telling me that they have
0:52:38 > 0:52:41three and four generations sleeping in one room with black mould
0:52:41 > 0:52:46on the walls as they can't afford to find anywhere and they can't find
0:52:46 > 0:52:51social housing because the waiting list is in the tens of thousands.
0:52:51 > 0:52:54Part of the pressure on the housing is immigration and population rise.
0:52:54 > 0:52:55Oh, come on.
0:52:55 > 0:52:57No.
0:52:57 > 0:52:58Sorry, Isabel.
0:52:58 > 0:52:59Just say it again, because you...
0:52:59 > 0:53:02No, wait a minute, you were both talking at the same time
0:53:02 > 0:53:03and the audience must listen.
0:53:03 > 0:53:05Isabel, just make the point you were making.
0:53:05 > 0:53:09There is a correlation between the pressure on housing,
0:53:09 > 0:53:11which you're talking about, and population rise
0:53:11 > 0:53:14and the unfettered immigration that you want to continue.
0:53:14 > 0:53:16I don't accept that.
0:53:16 > 0:53:17I don't accept that.
0:53:17 > 0:53:21The man in the third row there.
0:53:21 > 0:53:24You were all talking about investing in housing,
0:53:24 > 0:53:27but why aren't we doing anything now, such as building emergency
0:53:27 > 0:53:33shelters for these people to go in on cold nights like this?
0:53:33 > 0:53:34OK, and the woman there.
0:53:34 > 0:53:36I will come to you.
0:53:36 > 0:53:37Yes, you.
0:53:37 > 0:53:39Things are spiralling out of control.
0:53:39 > 0:53:42Millions of people are now going to food banks.
0:53:42 > 0:53:45Genuine families are struggling.
0:53:45 > 0:53:49I'm one of them who has struggled, and I've had to go to a food bank
0:53:49 > 0:53:50with my three children.
0:53:50 > 0:53:53This Government needs to be held to account for that.
0:53:53 > 0:53:56These are the future, the children are our future.
0:53:56 > 0:53:57APPLAUSE.
0:53:57 > 0:53:59And we're prepared to let them starve?
0:53:59 > 0:54:03Because, if it wasn't for donations from generous people,
0:54:03 > 0:54:05who else would feed us?
0:54:05 > 0:54:09It's hand-outs.
0:54:09 > 0:54:12That's how it's getting.
0:54:12 > 0:54:15Let Nicky Morgan reply to that, because it was about the Government.
0:54:15 > 0:54:17We've got more people obviously in work.
0:54:17 > 0:54:19We've got income inequality has fallen.
0:54:19 > 0:54:21SOUNDS OF DISAPPROVAL FROM THE AUDIENCE.
0:54:21 > 0:54:22Have you ever been to a food bank?
0:54:22 > 0:54:24Of course I have.
0:54:24 > 0:54:25What, to get food?
0:54:25 > 0:54:26No, I've been...
0:54:26 > 0:54:27It's humiliating.
0:54:27 > 0:54:28I understand.
0:54:28 > 0:54:29I deal with constituents...
0:54:29 > 0:54:31I've worked all my life and suddenly I became ill.
0:54:31 > 0:54:34There was only me to look after my three children.
0:54:34 > 0:54:37One of the things we are doing, I'm chairman of the House of
0:54:37 > 0:54:39Commons Treasury Select Committee, so one enquiry we're doing
0:54:39 > 0:54:40is looking at household finances.
0:54:40 > 0:54:43We talk a lot as politicians about the nation's finances and big
0:54:43 > 0:54:46numbers, but I am keen to understand what's going on in households.
0:54:46 > 0:54:49You are right, there are millions, thousands of households with less
0:54:49 > 0:54:50than £100 in savings.
0:54:50 > 0:54:52You've cut back!
0:54:52 > 0:54:55In terms of having a buffer that helps people get over,
0:54:55 > 0:54:57and you're right, most of us are only a couple
0:54:57 > 0:54:58of paycheques away...
0:54:58 > 0:55:03You only care about making money for yourselves.
0:55:03 > 0:55:04That's the God's honest truth.
0:55:04 > 0:55:05That is why...
0:55:05 > 0:55:07You can actually get money just like that,
0:55:07 > 0:55:08billions of pounds from nowhere.
0:55:08 > 0:55:10No, the Government...
0:55:10 > 0:55:12I've already set out that, in the Budget this year,
0:55:12 > 0:55:14the Chancellor announced real programmes and money and investment
0:55:14 > 0:55:17in relation to homelessness, but there are other schemes as well,
0:55:17 > 0:55:20things like the income tax threshold, cutting people's...
0:55:20 > 0:55:23It's just small talk, this.
0:55:23 > 0:55:26We've had the longest period of wage stagnation for 150 years.
0:55:26 > 0:55:29We've now got inflation running at 3%.
0:55:29 > 0:55:32OK, I'll take the woman behind you.
0:55:32 > 0:55:35You've spoken already, but I'll come back to you in a moment.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38Perhaps we should scrap the universal credits that actually
0:55:38 > 0:55:41leave people in poverty in the first place.
0:55:41 > 0:55:44APPLAUSE.
0:55:44 > 0:55:46The woman behind you.
0:55:46 > 0:55:49I think that, regardless of anyone's views in here on HS2,
0:55:49 > 0:55:51regardless of anyone's views on Brexit, regardless of anyone's
0:55:51 > 0:55:54views on the Government, we are throwing so much money
0:55:54 > 0:55:56at so many different things, the coalition
0:55:56 > 0:55:58with the DUP, HS2, Brexit.
0:55:58 > 0:56:01Surely our number one priority as human beings
0:56:01 > 0:56:05should be to protect other human beings.
0:56:05 > 0:56:09APPLAUSE.
0:56:09 > 0:56:12Geoff, what do you say to that?
0:56:12 > 0:56:15We are spewing money out on things we shouldn't be spending it on.
0:56:15 > 0:56:18I think some of it comes down to the actual practicalities of it.
0:56:18 > 0:56:21I understand that there is a policy...
0:56:21 > 0:56:25Give us a second, mate.
0:56:25 > 0:56:28It has to be more than zero degrees centigrade for three days
0:56:28 > 0:56:30before the Government open up extra housing.
0:56:30 > 0:56:31Is that accurate?
0:56:31 > 0:56:34I think there is a scheme, yes.
0:56:34 > 0:56:35Why does it have to be that cold?
0:56:35 > 0:56:37That is extremely cold.
0:56:37 > 0:56:39With the winds we've had recently, that seems like one thing that
0:56:39 > 0:56:41could be done overnight to ease the pressure.
0:56:41 > 0:56:43There are also cold weather payments.
0:56:43 > 0:56:44The woman here.
0:56:44 > 0:56:47You spoke earlier on, but let's hear from you again.
0:56:47 > 0:56:49I suggest that the Government speak to the Salvation Army
0:56:49 > 0:56:54because, for £19 per night, they will house someone overnight.
0:56:54 > 0:56:57Why not, on a short-term...
0:56:57 > 0:57:00I'm sure that's one of the organisations that we work with,
0:57:00 > 0:57:03and a lot of it is down to local authorities, who have
0:57:03 > 0:57:06responsibility, and they will work with many different organisations.
0:57:06 > 0:57:11They advertise the Salvation Army requests donations for £19 a night.
0:57:11 > 0:57:12We are nearly through.
0:57:12 > 0:57:14A point from you, sir, up there.
0:57:14 > 0:57:15If you would, quickly.
0:57:15 > 0:57:18Yeah, I think this talk of why you won't build
0:57:18 > 0:57:19houses is quite obvious.
0:57:19 > 0:57:21You are running a fake economy.
0:57:21 > 0:57:24The way in which landlords are able to charge the prices they charge
0:57:24 > 0:57:26is because we are in such phenomenal debt.
0:57:26 > 0:57:31It's the only reason.
0:57:31 > 0:57:33You won't build houses because we are in a housing bubble.
0:57:33 > 0:57:37The minute you build houses, that bursts and the rent goes down and,
0:57:37 > 0:57:46instead of it being 80% debt of our GDP, it's 100% of our GDP.
0:57:54 > 0:57:56-- instead of 80, it's 800.
0:57:56 > 0:57:58A massive part of homelessness is domestic violence victims.
0:57:58 > 0:58:01The Tories implemented austerity, but let's look at our own Labour
0:58:01 > 0:58:03councils that are implementing that austerity, despite the fact that
0:58:03 > 0:58:04their leadership is anti-austerity.
0:58:04 > 0:58:07People voted for Jeremy Corbyn for a real alternative.
0:58:07 > 0:58:09There is one Women's Aid in the whole of South Yorkshire.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12That's just lost its founding because a Labour council cut that.
0:58:12 > 0:58:14Let's see our Labour councils actually put up a real opposition
0:58:14 > 0:58:16and not implement cuts, because it's too
0:58:16 > 0:58:17dangerous to people.
0:58:17 > 0:58:19We are seeing too many people on our streets.
0:58:19 > 0:58:20Thank you.
0:58:20 > 0:58:25Well, there are a lot more questions and a lot of things we could discuss
0:58:25 > 0:58:27and left undiscussed, but our time is up.
0:58:27 > 0:58:29We're going to be back in January with Question Time.
0:58:29 > 0:58:32We'll be in Islington in London.
0:58:32 > 0:58:34On the panel, among others, the lawyer and campaigner
0:58:34 > 0:58:37Gina Miller, the comedian Nish Kumar, and Piers Morgan,
0:58:37 > 0:58:38the broadcaster and commentator.
0:58:38 > 0:58:40RIPPLE OF BOOING.
0:58:40 > 0:58:42LAUGHTER.
0:58:42 > 0:58:44He heard that.
0:58:44 > 0:58:45He won't come on now!
0:58:45 > 0:58:48We always get that reaction when I say his name, I don't know why.
0:58:48 > 0:58:50The following week, we're going to be in Hereford.
0:58:50 > 0:58:540330 123 9988 is the number to call if you'd like to come
0:58:54 > 0:58:55to either programme, or go to the website
0:58:55 > 0:58:57that is on the screen and follow the instructions.
0:58:57 > 0:58:58that is on the screen and follow the instructions.
0:58:58 > 0:59:01Question Time Extra Time follows on BBC 5 Live.
0:59:01 > 0:59:04My thanks to our panel and to all of you who came
0:59:04 > 0:59:05here to Barnsley tonight.
0:59:05 > 0:59:08Until next year, from Question Time, a very happy Christmas
0:59:08 > 0:59:12and good night, good night.
0:59:43 > 0:59:44Bezza!
0:59:44 > 0:59:45The gang are back together again.