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Tonight we are at the JCB
factory near Uttoxeter, | 0:00:05 | 0:00:08 | |
and welcome to Question Time. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:11 | |
And with me on the panel
tonight, the new chairman | 0:00:19 | 0:00:21 | |
of the Conservative Party,
once Immigration Minister, | 0:00:21 | 0:00:23 | |
Brandon Lewis. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
The former Labour MP
and Deputy Prime Minister under | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
Tony Blair, now in the House
of Lords, John Prescott. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:31 | |
The political editor
and columnist for the Sunday | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
express, Camilla Tominey. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
The writer and activist
from Novara Media, who says | 0:00:37 | 0:00:39 | |
she wants "luxury communism
now", Ash Sarkar. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:45 | |
And born in Germany but brought up
in Leeds, the UK Chief Executive | 0:00:45 | 0:00:49 | |
of the global manufacturing firm
Siemens, Juergen Maier. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:56 | |
Right, thank you very much. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:08 | |
Remember, at home, as always,
if you want to get in on this debate | 0:01:08 | 0:01:12 | |
and have your own say,
#BBCQT, and via Twitter | 0:01:12 | 0:01:16 | |
and Facebook you can do that. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:20 | |
I should just say we are here at JCB
and many of our audience work | 0:01:20 | 0:01:23 | |
on this site, this vast place,
so we may get relevant | 0:01:23 | 0:01:26 | |
comments about that. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
Let's take our first question
tonight, and this one comes | 0:01:29 | 0:01:32 | |
from Kevin Abbott, please. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:36 | |
When are the right wing media
and Tories going to realise lies | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
and smears against Comrade
Corbyn no longer work? | 0:01:39 | 0:01:44 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:01:44 | 0:01:50 | |
Ash Sarkar. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
I mean, it's quite sad, really. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:54 | |
They know that they've lost
the argument when it comes | 0:01:54 | 0:01:56 | |
to economic policy and social
policy, so the Conservatives | 0:01:56 | 0:01:58 | |
are reduced to cantering after half
baked hit pieces, | 0:01:58 | 0:02:03 | |
which once upon a time would have
gone largely unremarked on. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
I don't think that they are going
to get it, that politics has | 0:02:06 | 0:02:10 | |
changed in this country,
because that means listening | 0:02:10 | 0:02:12 | |
to people and actually meeting some
of their real concerns. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:15 | |
One of the things that really
worries me, as someone | 0:02:15 | 0:02:19 | |
who works in the media,
is that this botched | 0:02:19 | 0:02:23 | |
smear operation about,
is Jeremy Corbyn a Czech spy, | 0:02:23 | 0:02:26 | |
does he rappel down
buildings and trade state | 0:02:26 | 0:02:30 | |
secrets, or what have you,
is that it was based on a single | 0:02:30 | 0:02:34 | |
source who lacked credibility
and was basically a fantasist. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:39 | |
This really should not have made it
past any quality news room. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:42 | |
So I think one of the things
that we need to make sure | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
we are doing is rather than frame
this as how do we protect Corbyn | 0:02:45 | 0:02:49 | |
from smears, is look at how do
we make sure our press is held | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
to the very highest standards,
so it can effectively carry | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
out its function of speaking truth
to power and holding | 0:02:56 | 0:03:00 | |
politicians to account. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:02 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:03:02 | 0:03:10 | |
Brandon Lewis, you are chairman
of the Conservative Party. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:12 | |
It was your current
Defence Secretary, Gavin Williamson, | 0:03:12 | 0:03:16 | |
who said that Corbyn
met foreign spies, | 0:03:16 | 0:03:18 | |
"that was a betrayal of this
country, he cannot be trusted". | 0:03:18 | 0:03:22 | |
Do you agree with
what Williamson said? | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
Well, I think Gavin and others
actually have raised | 0:03:25 | 0:03:27 | |
a legitimate point. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:29 | |
If you look over a long period
of time, and I'm talking decades, | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
about people that the leader
of the Labour Party has met | 0:03:32 | 0:03:36 | |
and spent time with and been
involved with, I think it does | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
actually raise legitimate questions. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:41 | |
I'm slightly surprised actually,
if you look at Corbyn himself, | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
why he hasn't just dealt with this
and been transparent about what has | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
happened and what he's done. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:48 | |
I find that very odd. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:49 | |
But coming to the point
of the gentleman's key | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
question about the press,
the end part of what Ash | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
was saying, I agree with. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:55 | |
I think one of the absolute
bedrocks of our society, | 0:03:55 | 0:03:58 | |
of a free and open democracy,
is having a free press. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
And what we do have in our press is,
right across the press, | 0:04:00 | 0:04:03 | |
is people who have opinions
from different areas, | 0:04:03 | 0:04:06 | |
different newspapers,
different media outlets, | 0:04:06 | 0:04:07 | |
and challenging us in the way
you have done with your question | 0:04:07 | 0:04:10 | |
and others will later on today,
as politicians, to be able to deal | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
with and answer that. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:15 | |
And I think having a free press... | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
And one of the things I found quite
shocking was this kind of inference | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
we saw yesterday from Labour,
that if you ask difficult questions, | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
and I think the phrase
was "change is coming", | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
which kind of infers you'll
be shut down. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
We need a free press. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:29 | |
We need a press to be able
to ask those questions | 0:04:29 | 0:04:32 | |
and challenge politicians and people
in public life more generally. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:34 | |
And do you stand by your fellow
minister's remark that Corbyn cannot | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
be trusted and he has
betrayed this country? | 0:04:37 | 0:04:40 | |
I actually go wider than that. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:43 | |
I actually think if you look at,
as I've said, what Corbyn has stood | 0:04:43 | 0:04:46 | |
for, things he has said,
things he has voted for, | 0:04:46 | 0:04:49 | |
things he's voted against over
the years, I don't trust him | 0:04:49 | 0:04:51 | |
to lead our country and I don't
trust the Labour Party | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
with our economy and our
country more generally. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:56 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:04:56 | 0:05:01 | |
I'll come to you in a moment. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:03 | |
John Prescott. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:04 | |
Terrible statement he just made. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:05 | |
Look, I've been 50 years
in Parliament and I have to say this | 0:05:05 | 0:05:10 | |
is the dirtiest slur I've seen
against any individual politician. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:17 | |
I've known Jeremy all the time he's
been in Parliament and I have | 0:05:17 | 0:05:22 | |
to say he's an honest man
who states principles. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:26 | |
Might not be agreeable to you,
but has become the elected leader | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
of the Labour Party. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
For them now to start saying things
like he is a betrayer, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:35 | |
that in fact he now has acted
as a double agent, | 0:05:35 | 0:05:39 | |
a Kim Philby type. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:43 | |
What annoys me most is that
basically you, Brandon, | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
was the one that came in office
a couple of weeks ago, | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
and I have the statement
here so it's not fake news, | 0:05:49 | 0:05:52 | |
it's your statement,
which says a new respect pledge | 0:05:52 | 0:05:55 | |
for Tory candidates. | 0:05:55 | 0:05:58 | |
And what it says here,
"Conservative candidates will be | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
suspended if they insult rivals",
the new party chairman says. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:05 | |
Fine, that was the statement. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:06 | |
I was hopeful that that might be so. | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
But now you've got top people
in the Tory party lined up with, | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
lined up by the papers themselves,
the right wing papers, to say that | 0:06:12 | 0:06:17 | |
he's a traitor, a double agent. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
This is unacceptable. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:22 | |
Now I want to say that your
vice-chairman, who you appointed, | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
made these statements about him, | 0:06:25 | 0:06:31 | |
was selling British secrets
to Communist spies. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
My God, there's no
evidence for that. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:36 | |
Nobody's produced any evidence. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
Will you now, under this
new programme of better moral | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
standards, will you now
sack your vice-chairman who said | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
those things without evidence? | 0:06:46 | 0:06:49 | |
If you want to know, have a look. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:06:51 | 0:06:55 | |
Do you want to reply to that? | 0:06:55 | 0:06:59 | |
Absolutely. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:01 | |
John's right, I made very clear
a few weeks ago that we should | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
have a respect pledge. | 0:07:04 | 0:07:05 | |
I'm absolutely shocked
that the Labour Party | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
is refusing to engage
and set its own respect pledge. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:09 | |
That's because it's had
the policy for years, Brandon. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:11 | |
If I can just finish. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:16 | |
There is a very big difference
between having a proper, | 0:07:16 | 0:07:18 | |
robust debate about what people
stand for, what they have said, | 0:07:18 | 0:07:21 | |
what they have done and have been
transparent about that, | 0:07:21 | 0:07:23 | |
and personal abuse and calling
for physical abuse of candidates, | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
MPs or people in the general public,
which we are seeing | 0:07:26 | 0:07:28 | |
from the hard left and even
from the Shadow Chancellor | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
of the Labour Party, endorsing,
repeating comments like that is not | 0:07:31 | 0:07:33 | |
fit in British politics and Labour
need to call that out | 0:07:33 | 0:07:36 | |
and deal with it, John. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:37 | |
And until they do, I'm afraid it's
shocking we've got the Labour Party | 0:07:37 | 0:07:40 | |
that won't stand-up... | 0:07:40 | 0:07:41 | |
This isn't about spies,
it's about lies. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:43 | |
You should answer that. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:48 | |
A number of people with hands up
and then I will come to you. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:52 | |
Yes, you in the middle there. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:53 | |
You're going on about free press
and factual information | 0:07:53 | 0:07:55 | |
and everything and the facts. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:56 | |
Why are the government trying,
with the child maintenance service | 0:07:56 | 0:07:59 | |
and child support agency,
trying to block everything out | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
that's going on in the country now? | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
It's affected thousands
of people across the country. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:08 | |
There's free press, there
is evidence and they are leaving | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
people in poverty, homeless. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
The suicides. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:14 | |
There's no account for that. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:15 | |
And most of all, it's
affecting the children, | 0:08:15 | 0:08:17 | |
which is never in the press. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:18 | |
All right. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:19 | |
OK, let's stick with the Corbyn
point, the original question. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:22 | |
Out there, you, yes. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:25 | |
I think Jeremy Corbyn has built
mistrust himself by lying | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
to students in the belief
that they will get free | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
tuition in the last
election and reneging | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
on his manifesto promises. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:38 | |
OK. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:39 | |
Camilla Tominey. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:40 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
I'm not sure Labour have got a leg
to stand on on respect | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
when you have the Shadow Chancellor | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
John McDonnell calling
for Esther McVey to be lynched. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:53 | |
That's not gentler, kinder politics. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
As for the worst smear ever,
I would imagine that some | 0:08:56 | 0:08:58 | |
of Tom Watson's smears that
were exacerbated by believing | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
in a fantasist called Nick,
which suggested that a number | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
of Tory MPs were paedophiles,
is probably a little more serious | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
than what's been levelled
against Jeremy Corbyn, | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
a man who has a history
of being friends with our enemies. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:15 | |
If it had been a Tory MP who files
had been discovered had been | 0:09:15 | 0:09:19 | |
fraternising with a Czech spy,
a Czech diplomat, the Labour Party | 0:09:19 | 0:09:22 | |
would have been all
over it like a rash. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:24 | |
It's absolutely hypocritical
to suggest that you would not | 0:09:24 | 0:09:34 | |
have engaged in some
sort of investigation. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:36 | |
The press is certainly entitled
to investigate claims which appear | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
to be in the public interest,
as are Jeremy Corbyn's meetings | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
with Irish paramilitaries,
Jeremy Corbyn's meetings | 0:09:41 | 0:09:42 | |
with Hamas, Jeremy Corbyn's
meetings with Hezbollah. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:44 | |
The list goes on. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:45 | |
At any given time, this man has got
a pattern of behaviour of meeting | 0:09:45 | 0:09:48 | |
with people that others wouldn't
even contemplate sitting | 0:09:48 | 0:09:50 | |
down at the table with. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:09:52 | 0:09:58 | |
It was a one-way conversation, John. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
Blimey, the Express. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:03 | |
The Sunday Express. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:04 | |
Blimey, Labour. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:05 | |
Blimey, Momentum. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
Let me go to Juergen Maier. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:12 | |
Just one correction
to what you said. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:14 | |
John McDonnell didn't actually ask
for anybody to be lynched. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:16 | |
He reported what had been said,
which was slightly different. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
Hang on a second, he did say... | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
You've made the legal point. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:23 | |
He's appeared in speeches
where he suggested... | 0:10:23 | 0:10:25 | |
Suggested, not said. | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
He said direct action should be
taken against Tories, | 0:10:28 | 0:10:30 | |
wherever they are, direct action. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
That's a democratic
right to protest. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:35 | |
That's part of a healthy,
functioning democracy, Camilla, | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
I hate to break it to you. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
I'm sorry. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:42 | |
In a democratic society, what we do
is we have meaningful debates. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:46 | |
And we have the right
to protest and assembly. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
By making out that anyone
with Tory ideas is scum. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
And that's what Momentum does. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:52 | |
Hang on a second. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:56 | |
Let's try and have
a meaningful debate. | 0:10:56 | 0:10:58 | |
Which doesn't mean people telling
each other they should be ashamed | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
of each other at this stage
in the programme. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
Juergen. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:04 | |
Well, what I definitely agree
with is that we absolutely need | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
to protect the free press
and the freedom of speech. | 0:11:07 | 0:11:14 | |
Hear hear. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
And I do believe there
is danger in just dismissing | 0:11:17 | 0:11:21 | |
everything as fake news. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
However, having said that,
I think there is also a point | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
where we do need responsible news. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:29 | |
And my view on this particular
issue, and I know there has been | 0:11:29 | 0:11:33 | |
some other issues that
weren't in the question | 0:11:33 | 0:11:34 | |
about meetings with some other,
let's say unsavoury characters, | 0:11:34 | 0:11:38 | |
Hezbollah or whatever,
but this particular issue, | 0:11:38 | 0:11:41 | |
there doesn't seem to be
a lot of legs in it. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
And what I would say, it probably
is best we just sort of calm down. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:50 | |
What I would rather do is to judge
Jeremy Corbyn and the Prime Minister | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
in terms of what the policies
are now and what they are going | 0:11:54 | 0:11:58 | |
to do going forward,
rather than looking back | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
over the years. | 0:12:00 | 0:12:01 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:12:01 | 0:12:08 | |
There was a comment
from Jeremy Corbyn about this | 0:12:08 | 0:12:10 | |
where he said that the coverage
shows how worried | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
the media bosses are. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:14 | |
They are right to be. | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
"We've got news for the billionaire
tax exile press barons. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:18 | |
Change is coming". | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
Does that worry you,
if you are in favour of a free | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
press, or do you think it would be
a good idea if we didn't | 0:12:23 | 0:12:26 | |
have our press owned
by foreign billionaires? | 0:12:26 | 0:12:28 | |
Or billionaires residing
outside the UK? | 0:12:28 | 0:12:29 | |
Well, look, having billions and that
being overseas doesn't | 0:12:29 | 0:12:35 | |
worry me personally at all. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:36 | |
I have a very good conscience. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:37 | |
What, you've got your
billions here, you mean? | 0:12:37 | 0:12:41 | |
But look, at the end
of the day it's less | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
about the ownership of the press. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:47 | |
What is important is
that we have a responsible | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
and a balanced press which is giving
us free speech and giving us | 0:12:50 | 0:12:55 | |
the information that we need to make
the right sorts of judgments. | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
And we need less of fake news. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
I will come to you,
Ash, in a second. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
But the man in spectacles. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
Yeah, I didn't really know anything
about the story but I came across it | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
on Facebook and it made me
look into it. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:09 | |
And I saw the Jeremy
Corbyn Facebook address. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:13 | |
One of his basics within that was
that the free press is an absolutely | 0:13:13 | 0:13:18 | |
essential part of democracy
and needs to be protected. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:23 | |
And even within your quote there,
and Brandon Lewis is inferring it | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
as well, is that Jeremy Corbyn
is attacking free press. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:29 | |
He is doing nothing of the sort. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:32 | |
He is saying that change
is going to come because the people | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
want something different. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
He's not saying an
attack on free press. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:40 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:13:40 | 0:13:44 | |
The woman up their at the very back. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:46 | |
Yes, you. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
The free press should be
applauded and revered, | 0:13:49 | 0:13:51 | |
but they shouldn't tell lies. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:52 | |
And it does absolutely no good
whatsoever when fake news, | 0:13:52 | 0:13:59 | |
to quote the American President,
is trumpeted all over the press | 0:13:59 | 0:14:05 | |
and certain people believe in it. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:10 | |
A little like the fallacy that
Labour is no good with money. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:18 | |
Gordon Brown's... | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
Gordon Brown's schedule to get us
out of the recession | 0:14:21 | 0:14:26 | |
was covered by a lot
of the other emerging countries. | 0:14:26 | 0:14:32 | |
They got out of the recession many
years before we did. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:37 | |
If we had carried on with
Gordon Brown's policy, | 0:14:37 | 0:14:41 | |
we would have been out
of the recession years ago. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:43 | |
And we wouldn't be
in the situation... | 0:14:43 | 0:14:49 | |
Hang on a second. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:50 | |
Wait, wait, we're
talking about the press. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
Otherwise we'll have
John Prescott arguing | 0:14:53 | 0:14:54 | |
about what Gordon Brown did. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:56 | |
We don't want to do that,
we're on about the press. | 0:14:56 | 0:14:59 | |
I want to take a point
about the press. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:01 | |
You, sir, then I will come
to you, Ash, and we will | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
move on. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:05 | |
Yes... | 0:15:05 | 0:15:06 | |
I actually think Camilla's hit
the nail on the head | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
there. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:10 | |
With Jeremy Corbyn,
whether this story | 0:15:10 | 0:15:11 | |
is true or not, there
is | 0:15:11 | 0:15:13 | |
a bigger point here. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:14 | |
And that is, Corbyn
is a potential Prime | 0:15:14 | 0:15:15 | |
Minister. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:19 | |
I as a voter want to know more
about our potential Prime | 0:15:19 | 0:15:27 | |
Minister, what his views have been
over the years, what his views are | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
now, who he has met. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:35 | |
I know his supporters
don't think it's | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
important, but for me as a voter,
because he could be the prime | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
minister next time, I think it's
very important and very relevant. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:02 | |
OK, Ash. | 0:16:02 | 0:16:03 | |
Do you agree with what he's just
said, that everything should be | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
above board and shown
in public and discussed? | 0:16:06 | 0:16:08 | |
I agree entirely that transparency
over policy is of prime | 0:16:08 | 0:16:11 | |
importance in politics,
and that is what we've | 0:16:11 | 0:16:13 | |
been saying for ages -
lets talk policy and move away from | 0:16:13 | 0:16:15 | |
these personal smears. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:17 | |
I was quite alarmed
that you inferred that | 0:16:17 | 0:16:18 | |
Jeremy Corbyn meant the free press
should be shut down when he said | 0:16:18 | 0:16:22 | |
change is coming. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:23 | |
He's not saying that,
he saying, let's take a | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
careful look at the collusion
of vested interests between press | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
barons and the Tory Party,
and try and unpick those interests. | 0:16:27 | 0:16:30 | |
And what's more, if you want to talk
about shutting down a free press, I | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
would encourage you to look at your
own party's history, in particular, | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
when David Cameron sent
his Cabinet Secretary | 0:16:36 | 0:16:38 | |
to the Guardian and said,
a lot of people would like | 0:16:38 | 0:16:41 | |
to see you shut down,
because of their coverage | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
of the Snowden files. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:44 | |
I wonder where your outrage
was when GCHQ made the | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
Guardian destroy laptops and hard
drives as part of their coverage of | 0:16:47 | 0:16:49 | |
he Snowden files. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:50 | |
That's investigative
journalism, speaking | 0:16:50 | 0:16:51 | |
truth to power, and you guys
were silent on it. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:56 | |
All right. | 0:16:56 | 0:17:00 | |
You bear in mind, when
the gentleman there said, | 0:17:00 | 0:17:02 | |
talking about what Camilla said
before, when you have a free debate, | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
you talk to a lot of people. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:07 | |
Jeremy chooses who he speaks to. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:08 | |
But you know, Whitelaw,
the Tory deputy | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
prime minister, was talking
to the IRA, as was John Major, | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
privately and secretly,
because they wanted to | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
get an agreement. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
I think the agreement we've
got with Ireland now | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
is quite critical and came out
of those kind of discussions. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:25 | |
The whole attention
becomes Labour, not | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
Whitelaw or Major. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:32 | |
All right, thank you. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:33 | |
I'm sorry, we've got to move on,
because we're ten, 15 minutes | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
in. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
Before we do, Blackpool -
we're going to be in Blackpool next | 0:17:40 | 0:17:47 | |
On the screen are the details of how
to apply, and I'll give them | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
again, as always, at the end,
and I'll take a question now | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
from Dan Lear, please. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:00 | |
Speaking from personal experience,
graduates are finding it | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
harder to get graduate level jobs
once they do graduate. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:04 | |
Is charging £9,000 a year justified? | 0:18:04 | 0:18:08 | |
In other words, is it worth
going to university at all? | 0:18:08 | 0:18:12 | |
If they're charging £9,000. | 0:18:12 | 0:18:13 | |
All right, John Prescott? | 0:18:13 | 0:18:14 | |
This whole business of... | 0:18:14 | 0:18:15 | |
We had a statement this
week about 18 plus, | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
about the education money and how
it is used, but in reality, | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
the actual debts that have totalled
up for | 0:18:21 | 0:18:22 | |
those graduates to get
them is impossible. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:24 | |
More than that, many of them are not
paying it and won't pay | 0:18:24 | 0:18:27 | |
it, so you really have to ask
yourselves, was it worthwhile? | 0:18:27 | 0:18:30 | |
And Labour brought
in the first charges, | 0:18:30 | 0:18:32 | |
had a disagreement, because I belong
to the graduate tax was a better way | 0:18:32 | 0:18:35 | |
of doing it. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:36 | |
But it went from 3000 to | 0:18:36 | 0:18:37 | |
nearly 9000, and now you've got
massive debts which they can't | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
afford. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:41 | |
Many being put off to go
to the universities. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:43 | |
And really, you've got
to get a more realistic | 0:18:43 | 0:18:45 | |
assessment about the
distribution on education. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:47 | |
I was 25 before I went
to education, a mature grounds. | 0:18:47 | 0:18:49 | |
I could not have done
it with two children | 0:18:49 | 0:18:52 | |
without a mature student's grant,
which meant you were over 25. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
They have been rubbished altogether. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:55 | |
There are 100,000 left in part-time
work and university. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
Greater priority should
be given to that, | 0:18:58 | 0:18:59 | |
because they are the very skills
that those who failed like me when | 0:18:59 | 0:19:03 | |
they had the test at
the 11 plus can come back | 0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | |
later into education
and | 0:19:05 | 0:19:06 | |
are afraid the cuts have not
hundreds of thousands of them out of | 0:19:06 | 0:19:09 | |
the possibility, so it's more than
just the grant for the students. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:17 | |
Juergen... | 0:19:17 | 0:19:24 | |
We recruit a lot of graduates and
indeed apprentices here in the UK, | 0:19:26 | 0:19:29 | |
and our experience is that
the graduate we recruit are pretty | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
excellent. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:34 | |
I think we have brilliant British
universities, high-class | 0:19:34 | 0:19:36 | |
universities, but at
the end of the day, that | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
does all need paid for. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
This is a discussion
which is happening not just | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
here in the UK but everywhere. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:47 | |
I personally think we have come
up with quite a good | 0:19:47 | 0:19:53 | |
system, which is that there
is a payment of tuition fees. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:56 | |
However, it is not paid
back until graduates are | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
in a position to be
earning higher salaries. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:03 | |
And that actually seems quite fair
to me that those who are | 0:20:03 | 0:20:06 | |
earning higher salaries end up
paying a little bit back for the | 0:20:06 | 0:20:09 | |
education that they have had. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:12 | |
I do think there are
some small things we | 0:20:12 | 0:20:14 | |
could tweak - interest rates
seem to be a bit high | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
on the student loans. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:17 | |
I do think there is an opportunity
to bring back maintenance grants to | 0:20:17 | 0:20:22 | |
help the people who are less well
off and to help them on the ladder | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
of going to university. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:27 | |
But all in all, I think
it's a pretty fair | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
system. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:30 | |
And when the Prime Minister says,
as she did this week, that | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
it's the most expensive
system of university | 0:20:33 | 0:20:35 | |
tuition in the world,
or | 0:20:35 | 0:20:36 | |
one of them, you think
that's a price worth | 0:20:36 | 0:20:38 | |
paying for what we get? | 0:20:38 | 0:20:40 | |
I think it is, on the basis
that the graduates only pay back | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
the money once you are earning
above a threshold. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:48 | |
If I may just add one other point,
I do think we might be | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
having the wrong debate. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:53 | |
I don't think the issue
in the UK is our | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
higher education system. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:57 | |
I think it is great. | 0:20:57 | 0:20:59 | |
I think where we need to put much
more focus and support is | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
on apprenticeships,
vocational training. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:09 | |
And the key issue is, what we have
is a level of educational | 0:21:09 | 0:21:14 | |
snobbery. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:20 | |
And what we have to do is to say,
look, graduate education, | 0:21:20 | 0:21:23 | |
brilliant - it's going
to cost you some money. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:25 | |
Apprenticeship, also brilliant,
and it's absolutely on a | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
par. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:28 | |
Both of them, we need
to lift the standards. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:33 | |
What's your take on that, Dan? | 0:21:33 | 0:21:41 | |
I'd say, even though you don't pay
back until you are earning | 0:21:42 | 0:21:45 | |
the higher amount, you do have
that hanging over you. | 0:21:45 | 0:21:53 | |
Even if you don't get to pay
the full amount back | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
because you don't earn enough, that
debt is still there over your head | 0:21:58 | 0:22:01 | |
at all times. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:02 | |
Even though you only pay
after 25,000 earnings at £9 in | 0:22:02 | 0:22:05 | |
100, I think. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:06 | |
Something like that. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:08 | |
What do you think up there? | 0:22:08 | 0:22:12 | |
Let's hear from some more people. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:17 | |
From the woman there. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:18 | |
Yes, you first. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:19 | |
I graduated in 2013. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:21 | |
I was fortunate
enough to pay £3500 a | 0:22:21 | 0:22:22 | |
year. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:23 | |
I don't think it was worth that. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:25 | |
I certainly don't think it's
worth £9,000 a year. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:27 | |
£3500 wasn't worth it? | 0:22:27 | 0:22:28 | |
What happened to you? | 0:22:28 | 0:22:29 | |
I became successful,
but I thought the | 0:22:29 | 0:22:31 | |
quality of teaching,
I thought the university itself, | 0:22:31 | 0:22:33 | |
it just wasn't worth the money. | 0:22:33 | 0:22:34 | |
Sorry to be rude, but what did
you go on to do after | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
you'd been to university? | 0:22:37 | 0:22:38 | |
An account manager
at n-power currently. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:40 | |
I feel as though I have
progressed quite | 0:22:40 | 0:22:42 | |
well with my degree. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:43 | |
But in terms of the subject
itself, I think there | 0:22:43 | 0:22:45 | |
has to be a bit more of a balance
going through sixth form. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
I was very much streamlined
into university, so | 0:22:48 | 0:22:50 | |
I completely agree with
what Juergen was saying. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:52 | |
There was no real option other
than university, being | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
encouraged there, so I think... | 0:22:54 | 0:22:56 | |
OK, and the woman there. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:57 | |
Yes. | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
It's approximately 15%
of people will pay | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
back their entire student loan,
so once we just creating | 0:23:01 | 0:23:09 | |
back their entire student loan,
--so aren't we just creating | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
a problem for the future? | 0:23:12 | 0:23:13 | |
Plus, the starting wage
for a lot of graduate jobs is | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
actually less than the £25,000,
when people start paying. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
So, a nurse, a teacher,
they all earn less than | 0:23:18 | 0:23:20 | |
that on their starting wage,
so to become a graduate doesn't | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
automatically mean that
you're going to get | 0:23:23 | 0:23:24 | |
a better paid job,
and even | 0:23:24 | 0:23:26 | |
if you do, only a very small
percentage of those people will | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
actually end up paying the money. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:36 | |
You mean, it's painful
for the taxpayer in the end but | 0:23:36 | 0:23:38 | |
not for the person? | 0:23:38 | 0:23:39 | |
In the long-term, yeah. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:40 | |
Do you agree with that? | 0:23:40 | 0:23:42 | |
I think that if you axe tuition fees
altogether there's an | 0:23:42 | 0:23:44 | |
argument that you're going to put
the cost burden onto nongraduates, | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
and they might earn less over
the course of their career anyway. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:50 | |
I do think that we are
a bit too obsessed | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
with university. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:53 | |
In certain sectors of society,
it's as if roads only | 0:23:53 | 0:23:58 | |
lead to PPE at Oxford. | 0:23:58 | 0:23:59 | |
I know a great many
more people who are | 0:23:59 | 0:24:01 | |
successful in life who haven't gone
to Oxbridge or a similar university. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:04 | |
And equally, I think
perhaps careers advice | 0:24:04 | 0:24:06 | |
could be better in schools
so | 0:24:06 | 0:24:08 | |
that children aren't always
channelled into university first. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:09 | |
Why don't more employers think a bit
more creatively, and instead of | 0:24:09 | 0:24:12 | |
having this minimum,
you must have a degree, | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
broaden their horizons? | 0:24:14 | 0:24:22 | |
There are nondegree, or nonacademic,
kids out there that have a great | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
deal to offer. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:26 | |
Grant Thornton, I think,
did a great experiment where | 0:24:26 | 0:24:28 | |
they cut the minimum
for having graduates, | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
and lo and behold,
of the | 0:24:32 | 0:24:33 | |
nongraduates that came
through, a great many | 0:24:33 | 0:24:34 | |
of them really thrived
in | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
their top performance band. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:37 | |
So actually, I think we need to... | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:24:40 | 0:24:43 | |
Move away
from our university | 0:24:43 | 0:24:44 | |
obsession. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:45 | |
OK, Ash. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:46 | |
Look, I entirely agree
that we shouldn't have | 0:24:46 | 0:24:48 | |
nongraduates bearing the burden
for the cost of university. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:50 | |
That's why I think
we need to close tax | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
loopholes, I think we need
to reverse planned reductions to | 0:24:53 | 0:24:55 | |
capital gains and corporation tax
and have those corporations which | 0:24:55 | 0:24:57 | |
benefit from an educated workforce
putting in some money to make sure | 0:24:57 | 0:25:00 | |
that happens. | 0:25:00 | 0:25:08 | |
introduction of 9K fees is a 0.5%
year on year increase in the | 0:25:10 | 0:25:13 | |
dropout rate. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:14 | |
So you've got 6% of students
who don't make it from | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
first year to second year. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
For one of my sins,
I also moonlight as a | 0:25:18 | 0:25:20 | |
lecturer. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:21 | |
In that context, where you've got
students who are really | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
struggling to pay the everyday costs
of their living, they are anxious | 0:25:24 | 0:25:28 | |
because of mounting debt, and also
they are being taught by people. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
I'm really sorry that you had such
a poor experience of teaching. | 0:25:31 | 0:25:34 | |
But they are being
taught by people like | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
myself, who, in some cases, don't
even have a pension, or are having | 0:25:36 | 0:25:39 | |
their pensions raided by management. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:42 | |
You can't provide a good
standard of education | 0:25:42 | 0:25:44 | |
in those settings,
so what | 0:25:44 | 0:25:47 | |
we need to do is also restructure
universities internally. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:49 | |
It's not right that
some lecturers end up | 0:25:49 | 0:25:51 | |
making roughly minimum
wage while vice | 0:25:51 | 0:25:53 | |
chancellors' pay blossoms
to in | 0:25:53 | 0:25:55 | |
some cases over £300,000 per year. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:56 | |
That's ridiculous. | 0:25:56 | 0:25:58 | |
OK, the man up there
at the very back. | 0:25:58 | 0:26:01 | |
We have a lot of men
with hands up and not | 0:26:01 | 0:26:04 | |
very many women. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:05 | |
I don't know why. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:06 | |
You, yes, sir. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:10 | |
I was going to say that
when it comes to university | 0:26:10 | 0:26:12 | |
degrees, I think there should be
a lot more joined up thinking | 0:26:12 | 0:26:15 | |
between what universities offer
and what | 0:26:15 | 0:26:17 | |
business and industry want in terms
of professionals, professional | 0:26:17 | 0:26:19 | |
degrees. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:22 | |
I can only speak for science. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:25 | |
I think it's a shame when I see
science graduates and their | 0:26:25 | 0:26:28 | |
first job is in a coffee shop. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:30 | |
It's a shame. | 0:26:30 | 0:26:33 | |
I think the universities,
with the tuition fees, they've | 0:26:33 | 0:26:35 | |
turned themselves into businesses. | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
They are interested in getting money
in, and when a science graduate | 0:26:38 | 0:26:41 | |
comes out, job done. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:46 | |
Universities are wealthy
but there hasn't been | 0:26:46 | 0:26:49 | |
enough joined up thinking
between the degrees | 0:26:49 | 0:26:50 | |
and what the country needs. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:53 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:26:53 | 0:27:00 | |
I agree with a number of the | 0:27:00 | 0:27:05 | |
points that have been made,
actually, particularly | 0:27:05 | 0:27:06 | |
around the core point | 0:27:06 | 0:27:07 | |
around the university fees. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:08 | |
I'm having the experience, I have a | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
son who is looking
at what he might be | 0:27:10 | 0:27:12 | |
doing it university,
and the | 0:27:12 | 0:27:13 | |
point I've been making to him
and some of his friends is, | 0:27:13 | 0:27:16 | |
I think it is important that
students looking | 0:27:16 | 0:27:18 | |
at university should act as
consumers and look at what they are | 0:27:18 | 0:27:21 | |
getting in terms of where they will
go, and what they will study. | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
It comes back to
the gentleman's point | 0:27:24 | 0:27:26 | |
around exactly what you want to do
after your degree and what | 0:27:26 | 0:27:29 | |
universities going to
work for you in terms | 0:27:29 | 0:27:31 | |
of the career you want
to | 0:27:31 | 0:27:32 | |
have to make sure you get
good value for money. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:40 | |
For the scheme overall,
we have one that means our | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
universities are well
funded, they are providing | 0:27:42 | 0:27:44 | |
excellent education. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:45 | |
We are the envy of the world. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:46 | |
Even today, we've seen again
international students growing. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
That's a good thing, and again,
it highlights along with more | 0:27:48 | 0:27:51 | |
and more students from this country
from all | 0:27:51 | 0:27:53 | |
backgrounds, including
deprived backgrounds, | 0:27:53 | 0:27:54 | |
more and more going to university,
but I also think there | 0:27:54 | 0:27:56 | |
is a really important point that
Juergen and a few people have made | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
this evening, which is exactly
what is outlined in the review | 0:28:04 | 0:28:07 | |
is that the Prime Minister outlined
this | 0:28:07 | 0:28:08 | |
week. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:09 | |
It's not just looking
at the university fees | 0:28:09 | 0:28:11 | |
and whether that is right. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:12 | |
I think we've got a system that has
worked, and it's right that | 0:28:12 | 0:28:16 | |
we look now at what happens in the
next five and ten years and learn | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
from the last few years. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:21 | |
But also looking beyond
university, exactly | 0:28:21 | 0:28:22 | |
that point around apprenticeships
and people going into vocational | 0:28:22 | 0:28:24 | |
skills, whether it's in a business
like the one we are in or Siemens | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
or anywhere else. | 0:28:27 | 0:28:28 | |
Actually, there are some
phenomenal opportunities | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
and some hugely successful people
who didn't go to universities, and | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
actually giving people that
opportunity through T Levels, they | 0:28:32 | 0:28:35 | |
are coming forward, and other
things, to look at what is right for | 0:28:35 | 0:28:38 | |
them to have the best career
and the most fulfilling life | 0:28:38 | 0:28:40 | |
when they go forward. | 0:28:40 | 0:28:41 | |
And is it your plan to keep
university fees at 9250 | 0:28:41 | 0:28:44 | |
as they are at the moment,
or would you like to see | 0:28:44 | 0:28:47 | |
them cut, should I say
before the next election? | 0:28:47 | 0:28:49 | |
Well, we've got this review. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:51 | |
I'm not going to prejudge the review
but independent experts will sit | 0:28:51 | 0:28:53 | |
on that review which will report
back later this year, | 0:28:53 | 0:28:56 | |
that's looking both at universities,
including the fees and the rate | 0:28:56 | 0:28:58 | |
and everything else,
but also at T levels | 0:28:58 | 0:29:00 | |
and vocational skills,
because I think we do need to do | 0:29:00 | 0:29:03 | |
better as a country at making people
aware of what the opportunities | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
are for vocational work as well. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:07 | |
Let's go on because
time is against us. | 0:29:07 | 0:29:09 | |
Peter Wilmot, let's
have your question, please. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
Is the proposed transition
period just a cynical | 0:29:11 | 0:29:12 | |
attempt to stop Brexit? | 0:29:12 | 0:29:14 | |
Brexit rears its head! | 0:29:14 | 0:29:18 | |
The two-year transition you're
talking about, Peter, yes? | 0:29:18 | 0:29:21 | |
Is it a cynical attempt
to stop Brexit? | 0:29:21 | 0:29:25 | |
I won't come to you, Brandon,
because you were just talking. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:28 | |
Juergen, you start on this one. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:29 | |
Well, I think whichever side
of the argument you are on, | 0:29:29 | 0:29:36 | |
or were on, one thing that I think
we are agreeing on more and more | 0:29:36 | 0:29:39 | |
is the fact that getting the right
deal for Brexit is turning out to be | 0:29:39 | 0:29:44 | |
hugely more complex than I think
we had all anticipated. | 0:29:44 | 0:29:51 | |
And look, I'm not arguing here for,
you know, we've made | 0:29:51 | 0:29:55 | |
the wrong decision. | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
I was clear the day the country
voted to leave the EU, | 0:29:58 | 0:30:00 | |
we are leaving the EU. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:06 | |
What we are now talking
about is how do we leave the EU. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:09 | |
And that is a massive,
massive complex issue and a very | 0:30:09 | 0:30:12 | |
difficult negotiation. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:14 | |
And to me, it seems that there
is one key argument, and that is, | 0:30:14 | 0:30:19 | |
you've got that one side
of the extreme, we basically | 0:30:19 | 0:30:23 | |
have a very sort of EU-lite,
and we stay very close | 0:30:23 | 0:30:25 | |
to as it is today. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:28 | |
That, by the way, I don't hide
at all, is the position that | 0:30:28 | 0:30:31 | |
I would prefer to take,
as a businessman in the UK. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:34 | |
But I've accepted that
that is probably not | 0:30:34 | 0:30:38 | |
what the British people voted for. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:39 | |
The British people voted
for something which gives us | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
a little bit more sovereignty,
which means that we can take back | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
a little bit more control. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:47 | |
And it means that we restrict
free movement of people. | 0:30:47 | 0:30:49 | |
I've accepted that. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:51 | |
Do you have any idea
where it's going? | 0:30:51 | 0:30:53 | |
Well, having said that,
what I don't accept is that there | 0:30:53 | 0:30:55 | |
is utopia at the other end
of the extreme, which is that we can | 0:30:55 | 0:30:59 | |
crash out, we can go on WTO rules
and we can trade with the rest | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
of the world. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:06 | |
I just don't accept that situation,
because I think whilst that | 0:31:06 | 0:31:08 | |
will give you more sovereignty,
we would be trading economic upside. | 0:31:08 | 0:31:13 | |
We would be worse off. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:14 | |
So I think, to come back
to your question there, | 0:31:14 | 0:31:17 | |
we need middle ground. | 0:31:17 | 0:31:18 | |
We need middle ground,
a sensible Brexit which is good | 0:31:18 | 0:31:21 | |
for business, keeps economy,
but gives us some more sovereignty. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
But that, Peter, is exactly
what you are objecting to, isn't it? | 0:31:24 | 0:31:30 | |
I hear what you say and I entirely
accept that we need a good deal. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:34 | |
But I also believe that the EU needs
a good deal, too, and they don't | 0:31:34 | 0:31:39 | |
seem to be offering anything. | 0:31:39 | 0:31:41 | |
The ball's in our court. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:42 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:31:42 | 0:31:47 | |
And I'd don't see why. | 0:31:47 | 0:31:50 | |
But my point is, if I may just come
back, is that the better way to get | 0:31:50 | 0:31:53 | |
the deal is to go for something
that is middle ground. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:56 | |
The way to not get the deal
is to say we're going to crash out, | 0:31:56 | 0:31:59 | |
it's going to be... | 0:31:59 | 0:32:00 | |
Because at the end of the day we do
need to stay friendly | 0:32:00 | 0:32:03 | |
with our neighbours. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:07 | |
And the best way to do
that is to have a sensible | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
negotiated position. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:11 | |
I'll come back to you. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:12 | |
Let me just go around
the table for a bit. | 0:32:12 | 0:32:15 | |
Camilla. | 0:32:15 | 0:32:16 | |
I think it's a mischaracterisation
to call it a transition period. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
It's meant to be an
implementation period. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:22 | |
It's meant to be the period
in which we implement, practically, | 0:32:22 | 0:32:25 | |
Brexit, and that means
setting up new channels | 0:32:25 | 0:32:27 | |
at Heathrow and all the other
different practical implications. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
I think if the EU is trying to keep
us in Brexit in name only, | 0:32:30 | 0:32:34 | |
so-called Brino, then that is wrong. | 0:32:34 | 0:32:38 | |
That is not what the
Leavers voted for. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:41 | |
Equally, I think if the EU is trying
to prohibit us from forging | 0:32:41 | 0:32:45 | |
new trade deals with other countries
during that period, then again | 0:32:45 | 0:32:47 | |
that's not what we voted for. | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
Of course it's in the EU. | 0:32:50 | 0:32:52 | |
And when I talk about the EU I mean
the political Brussels zealots | 0:32:52 | 0:32:56 | |
who absolutely don't want to give us
a deal which could make us | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
thrive more than them
and be more competitive. | 0:32:59 | 0:33:03 | |
That's one thing. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:04 | |
But I think if you go
around Europe and actually | 0:33:04 | 0:33:06 | |
speak to European people,
and particularly businesses, | 0:33:06 | 0:33:08 | |
they agree with the British. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
They want a free trade deal. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:12 | |
Why wouldn't they? | 0:33:12 | 0:33:18 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:33:18 | 0:33:22 | |
John Prescott. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:24 | |
I fought in the 1975 election
to keep out of the EU, | 0:33:24 | 0:33:27 | |
or the Common Market as it was then,
because I thought it was going to be | 0:33:27 | 0:33:33 | |
the United States of Europe, a kind
of state which I didn't believe in. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:37 | |
I lost. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:38 | |
In this one, I fought to remain
and to stay in, and I lost. | 0:33:38 | 0:33:43 | |
And that is one of the difficulties. | 0:33:43 | 0:33:45 | |
And this week we've seen that red
bus weeks ago going around saying | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
£350 million would come each day
to the NHS. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:53 | |
And I think it's the same bus
by different people was going around | 0:33:53 | 0:33:56 | |
saying it's going to cost
us a billion. | 0:33:56 | 0:34:00 | |
The reality is, it is difficult
to know the full consequences. | 0:34:00 | 0:34:04 | |
It's complicated. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:05 | |
But the issues are clear. | 0:34:05 | 0:34:06 | |
Get out, or stay in. | 0:34:06 | 0:34:08 | |
Now, they are clear positions. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:10 | |
The trouble is the government
doesn't know what it wants to do. | 0:34:10 | 0:34:13 | |
It is disunited. | 0:34:13 | 0:34:14 | |
It can't give a united position. | 0:34:14 | 0:34:18 | |
Does Labour know
what it wants to do? | 0:34:18 | 0:34:20 | |
No. | 0:34:20 | 0:34:21 | |
Have you got a problem? | 0:34:21 | 0:34:24 | |
No, I'm saying Labour doesn't know
what it wants to do. | 0:34:24 | 0:34:26 | |
Are you saying that,
or shall I explain it? | 0:34:26 | 0:34:29 | |
OK, please try. | 0:34:29 | 0:34:30 | |
But you're coming to an opinion
before you hear me? | 0:34:30 | 0:34:32 | |
Well, I think most people's
opinion is that Labour... | 0:34:32 | 0:34:34 | |
That's the Sunday Express! | 0:34:34 | 0:34:35 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:34:35 | 0:34:36 | |
Labour's position
has been a bit sketchy. | 0:34:36 | 0:34:42 | |
Let me answer it. | 0:34:42 | 0:34:43 | |
You obviously don't understand it. | 0:34:43 | 0:34:44 | |
What we did say, and I didn't
like the idea, that basically | 0:34:44 | 0:34:47 | |
we recognise the public opinion
to come out. | 0:34:47 | 0:34:49 | |
And then we got a lot of trouble
for supporting the government | 0:34:49 | 0:34:52 | |
when it came to that section 50,
and we said that's what | 0:34:52 | 0:34:55 | |
the people have spoken. | 0:34:55 | 0:34:56 | |
We don't want to be
defying the people. | 0:34:56 | 0:34:58 | |
But we have a clear opinion that
whatever you negotiate, | 0:34:58 | 0:35:02 | |
we have certain red lines. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:04 | |
One of them is, we want to still be
trading with the European Community, | 0:35:04 | 0:35:09 | |
that we want, therefore, the tariff
business to be controlled. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:15 | |
That's definite for our industry. | 0:35:15 | 0:35:17 | |
And some conditions
about free movement. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:20 | |
But we cannot give you the full
position until the government | 0:35:20 | 0:35:25 | |
negotiate what the final deal is. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:26 | |
Then we reserve the right to say,
and we forced it in Parliament, | 0:35:26 | 0:35:29 | |
Parliament will make a decision. | 0:35:29 | 0:35:31 | |
That's what we've agreed,
but they've got to make up | 0:35:31 | 0:35:33 | |
their mind what they are asking for. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:36 | |
And when I hear people saying to me,
well, the government is disunited, | 0:35:36 | 0:35:39 | |
not in unity, of course that's true. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:42 | |
But if you're a negotiator
and you're leaving and you don't | 0:35:42 | 0:35:46 | |
know what you want to leave for,
don't be surprised if Europe looks | 0:35:46 | 0:35:49 | |
aghast at us that we are all over
the shop and we don't know | 0:35:49 | 0:35:52 | |
what we want. | 0:35:52 | 0:35:53 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:35:53 | 0:36:00 | |
And according to press reports... | 0:36:00 | 0:36:01 | |
Which paper? | 0:36:01 | 0:36:04 | |
Well, I think leaked
by Jeremy Corbyn's staff. | 0:36:04 | 0:36:08 | |
On Monday, Labour is going to come
out in favour of remaining | 0:36:08 | 0:36:15 | |
in the customs union. | 0:36:15 | 0:36:16 | |
Had you heard that? | 0:36:16 | 0:36:17 | |
I've read it a few times,
as you must have done. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
Do you believe it? | 0:36:20 | 0:36:21 | |
I believe that there is a role
for the customs union, yes. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:24 | |
That is one of the options. | 0:36:24 | 0:36:25 | |
That is what they are
discussing at Chequers today. | 0:36:25 | 0:36:29 | |
They say they don't
want customs union. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:31 | |
If we say you're not going
to have an agreement with them, | 0:36:31 | 0:36:33 | |
then you'll have total failure. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
What would be the worst
of all things would be | 0:36:36 | 0:36:38 | |
to have total failure,
pull out, we're not | 0:36:38 | 0:36:40 | |
prepared to do that. | 0:36:40 | 0:36:41 | |
And if the customs union is one
of the areas you can find agreement, | 0:36:41 | 0:36:44 | |
and it meets our conditions
that we want, yes, I'm | 0:36:44 | 0:36:47 | |
sure we'll consider it. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:48 | |
Don't believe everything
you read in the press. | 0:36:48 | 0:36:51 | |
Brandon Lewis. | 0:36:51 | 0:36:52 | |
Well, I found John's contribution
fascinating, because I do | 0:36:52 | 0:36:59 | |
think there is confusion. | 0:36:59 | 0:37:00 | |
Not least of all because just today
John McDonnell has opened the door | 0:37:00 | 0:37:03 | |
to a second referendum,
something Diane Abbott | 0:37:03 | 0:37:05 | |
has argued for as well. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:06 | |
So I think we do need to be clear
Labour really do not | 0:37:06 | 0:37:09 | |
have a set position. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:10 | |
But to come back to the question
that Peter directly asked... | 0:37:10 | 0:37:13 | |
What about staying
in the customs union? | 0:37:13 | 0:37:14 | |
I was going to come back to the very
question that Peter asked | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
initially about this. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:18 | |
I think the short answer is no,
as Camilla rightly outlined. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
That implementation period is not
just to allow businesses to prepare | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
for what that final end
state will be. | 0:37:24 | 0:37:26 | |
There is work to do. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:27 | |
As someone who has been
Immigration Minister | 0:37:27 | 0:37:28 | |
until just a few weeks ago,
to make sure we've got | 0:37:28 | 0:37:31 | |
the systems in place,
not least of all to process not just | 0:37:31 | 0:37:34 | |
the European citizens,
almost 3.5 million who will now have | 0:37:34 | 0:37:36 | |
settled status here,
but a million Brits abroad. | 0:37:36 | 0:37:39 | |
All of that kind of work has to be
done in a way that is good | 0:37:39 | 0:37:43 | |
for people and business as well,
so it's smooth and it works. | 0:37:43 | 0:37:45 | |
I think that's what that's about. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:47 | |
But we have been very clear
from the very beginning. | 0:37:47 | 0:37:51 | |
The Prime Minister has been
absolutely crystal clear on this. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
We are leaving the European Union. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:55 | |
We are going to leave
the customs union, we will | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
leave the single market. | 0:37:58 | 0:37:59 | |
And today some of my colleagues
from the subcommittee | 0:37:59 | 0:38:01 | |
of the Cabinet have been meeting,
as John said, at Chequers, | 0:38:01 | 0:38:03 | |
going through various sectors,
talking about various sectors, | 0:38:03 | 0:38:07 | |
agriculture, automotives,
the digital economy, | 0:38:07 | 0:38:09 | |
and the Prime Minister
going through our future | 0:38:09 | 0:38:11 | |
economic relationship. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:14 | |
And I can say to you that
the outcome of those discussions | 0:38:14 | 0:38:18 | |
will come to Cabinet
in the next few days. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:20 | |
And late next week the Prime
Minister will make a statement, | 0:38:20 | 0:38:23 | |
make a speech and outline
what that position is. | 0:38:23 | 0:38:25 | |
Which everybody agrees
in the Cabinet? | 0:38:25 | 0:38:26 | |
Absolutely, yes. | 0:38:26 | 0:38:27 | |
So no more letter writing? | 0:38:27 | 0:38:29 | |
I'll wait to see that one! | 0:38:29 | 0:38:31 | |
The woman there in the third
row from the back. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:33 | |
Yes, you. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:34 | |
I think the transition period
is good, and the reason is, | 0:38:34 | 0:38:37 | |
from now to the 29th of March 2019
there is 280 working days. | 0:38:37 | 0:38:41 | |
And when you start to look
at the number of policies | 0:38:41 | 0:38:43 | |
and procedures which the government
have to run through to make Brexit | 0:38:43 | 0:38:47 | |
a success, whether it's the aircraft
that fly in our sky, | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
which is governed by EASA,
whether it's the trade of animals | 0:38:50 | 0:38:53 | |
that move through our ports
at Calais, you look at an example | 0:38:53 | 0:38:57 | |
this week of a fast food supply
who changed its distributor, | 0:38:57 | 0:39:00 | |
and look at the problems
that's caused. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:01 | |
These are fantastically complicated
things we've got to solve, | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
and I think we need that period
of time to complete it successfully. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
You mean KFC is an object lesson
for the British economy? | 0:39:07 | 0:39:10 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:39:10 | 0:39:17 | |
Yes, the person there. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:18 | |
Yes, you. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:19 | |
There's this preoccupation that
time's running out for us. | 0:39:19 | 0:39:21 | |
Is there concern that the time
is running out for French farmers, | 0:39:21 | 0:39:25 | |
for German car manufacturers? | 0:39:25 | 0:39:27 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:39:27 | 0:39:31 | |
For Spanish tourist resorts? | 0:39:31 | 0:39:34 | |
And last of all, is time running out
for the Italian politicians who've | 0:39:34 | 0:39:37 | |
got a debt that makes ours look
like Toytown, and also they've got | 0:39:37 | 0:39:42 | |
elections coming up and youth
unemployment of 60%? | 0:39:42 | 0:39:46 | |
You talk about time running out. | 0:39:46 | 0:39:49 | |
Do you think time is running out
for this government, | 0:39:49 | 0:39:51 | |
or are you happy with the way
things are going? | 0:39:51 | 0:39:53 | |
Happy with the way
that things are going. | 0:39:53 | 0:39:55 | |
Ash. | 0:39:55 | 0:39:56 | |
I really appreciate
an apocalyptic tone. | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
It feels very dramatic. | 0:39:59 | 0:40:00 | |
I would say that a lot of this
bellicose tone of "they need us | 0:40:00 | 0:40:04 | |
more than we need them",
I'm afraid sounds quite deluded. | 0:40:04 | 0:40:09 | |
We're in a context where crashing
out on WTO terms would mean a 13% | 0:40:09 | 0:40:14 | |
dip in growth for this region
that we are in right now. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:20 | |
Just recently we had farmers appeal
to Michael Gove because there | 0:40:20 | 0:40:23 | |
is an agricultural staffing crisis. | 0:40:23 | 0:40:26 | |
Now, I'm not going to say
that remaining in the EU | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
would solve all those problems. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:30 | |
I don't think it would. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:31 | |
I think it means we need
more robust discussions | 0:40:31 | 0:40:33 | |
on what kind of Brexit we want. | 0:40:33 | 0:40:35 | |
I think preserving the customs union
is essential to protecting | 0:40:35 | 0:40:38 | |
the perishable goods trade. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:40 | |
I think we need guarantees from this
Tory government that it | 0:40:40 | 0:40:43 | |
will protect British Steel. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:46 | |
British Steel is very vulnerable. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:49 | |
We need commitments that it's not
just going to be a bankers' Brexit | 0:40:49 | 0:40:52 | |
which rips up workers' rights
for the many and preserves the | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
privilege and the power of the few. | 0:40:55 | 0:40:57 | |
Those are my priorities as a voter. | 0:40:57 | 0:40:58 | |
And I'd like to see some concrete
commitment to those things. | 0:40:58 | 0:41:02 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:41:02 | 0:41:08 | |
I see an arm in the air,
black and red. | 0:41:08 | 0:41:11 | |
Yes, you, madam. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:13 | |
What I'd like to say
is that the point everybody's | 0:41:13 | 0:41:17 | |
missing is that the EU don't
want to give us a good deal, | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
because everybody else
will want to leave. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:22 | |
And that is the Italians
want to leave. | 0:41:22 | 0:41:26 | |
I know the Dutch want to leave. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:28 | |
There's quite a few different
countries want to leave. | 0:41:28 | 0:41:30 | |
So Mr Juncker, all he wants
to do is be awkward. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:34 | |
It was obvious with David Cameron
what he hit before we had | 0:41:34 | 0:41:39 | |
Theresa May, and she started off
by saying we'll have no deal, | 0:41:39 | 0:41:43 | |
it's better than a bad deal. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:45 | |
Now, I think they are
playing games a bit. | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
They are the ones that
are prolonging it. | 0:41:48 | 0:41:50 | |
And it's not really
getting anywhere. | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
And the idea is we voted to leave
and we voted to leave | 0:41:54 | 0:41:57 | |
because we don't want
the immigration going as it is. | 0:41:57 | 0:42:01 | |
We want all these things addressing. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:03 | |
But the problem is, I don't think
they want to give us a deal. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:07 | |
They are the ones that are dragging
their feet more than we are. | 0:42:07 | 0:42:11 | |
I would like to challenge that. | 0:42:11 | 0:42:13 | |
Which bit do you want to challenge? | 0:42:13 | 0:42:18 | |
The "they don't want
to give us a deal" bit. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:21 | |
But she also says everybody
wants to leave anyway. | 0:42:21 | 0:42:24 | |
Which is also not true. | 0:42:24 | 0:42:25 | |
I don't agree. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:27 | |
I don't think you did
say that, did you? | 0:42:27 | 0:42:29 | |
I said that there's a few countries
that would like to leave | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
and they are using this
as an example to put them off. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
You actually talk to people
in those countries. | 0:42:35 | 0:42:38 | |
When they actually joined the EU,
it went up by an awful amount. | 0:42:38 | 0:42:42 | |
They actually used it
to increase prices. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:44 | |
And I know that because I've been
to some of those countries | 0:42:44 | 0:42:47 | |
and witnessed it, OK. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
And I've got family that live
in those countries as well. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:51 | |
Well, look, I've spent
a lot of time living | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
and working in those countries. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
But that's your opinion, isn't it? | 0:42:56 | 0:42:58 | |
And I really don't speak to anybody
who is out to punish the UK. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:03 | |
So you think they are being
very cooperative then? | 0:43:03 | 0:43:06 | |
Well, look, at the end of the day... | 0:43:06 | 0:43:08 | |
They are not, though, are they? | 0:43:08 | 0:43:11 | |
They want to know what we want. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
They didn't want us
to leave, you know. | 0:43:13 | 0:43:15 | |
They are basically saying, look,
we're terribly sorry but actually | 0:43:15 | 0:43:17 | |
it is in our interest that we remain
friends at the end of this, | 0:43:17 | 0:43:22 | |
and definitely it's in our
interest that we remain... | 0:43:22 | 0:43:27 | |
But it's not about remaining
friends, it's about them giving us a | 0:43:27 | 0:43:30 | |
deal. | 0:43:30 | 0:43:31 | |
It is, and we need
to remain trading. | 0:43:31 | 0:43:33 | |
That is really my point. | 0:43:33 | 0:43:41 | |
I also want to say to the other
gentleman's point that what this | 0:43:43 | 0:43:46 | |
whole argument is proving is that
the whole thing is so complicated, | 0:43:46 | 0:43:49 | |
we haven't yet worked
out what the actual | 0:43:49 | 0:43:51 | |
best way to leave is,
so the | 0:43:51 | 0:43:52 | |
transition deal is absolutely
essential to just buy ours that time | 0:43:52 | 0:43:55 | |
to calm down a little bit,
look at the facts in terms | 0:43:55 | 0:43:58 | |
of what is best for us,
what is for the other side, | 0:43:58 | 0:44:01 | |
and my gut feeling is,
in the end, we will come | 0:44:01 | 0:44:03 | |
down and we will find
a | 0:44:03 | 0:44:05 | |
sensible agreement
that keeps us trading. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:06 | |
I wouldn't rule out
the customs union. | 0:44:06 | 0:44:08 | |
I don't think it's the customs
union, I think it's a | 0:44:08 | 0:44:11 | |
slightly different
version of a customs | 0:44:11 | 0:44:12 | |
union, but something
that | 0:44:12 | 0:44:13 | |
allows businesses
like JCB and Siemens, | 0:44:13 | 0:44:15 | |
but more importantly,
the | 0:44:15 | 0:44:16 | |
smaller companies, to be able
to trade without tariffs. | 0:44:16 | 0:44:19 | |
All right, a last
point from you, sir. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:21 | |
Briefly, if you would. | 0:44:21 | 0:44:29 | |
Is it time that we stop
calling it Brexit? | 0:44:34 | 0:44:37 | |
The reason I say that
is because if you take | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
a constant and splice
it | 0:44:39 | 0:44:41 | |
together with a variable, you end up
with a variable, and that's what | 0:44:41 | 0:44:43 | |
Brexit is. | 0:44:43 | 0:44:44 | |
The constant is independence,
which is what we voted | 0:44:44 | 0:44:47 | |
for, and the variable is the deal. | 0:44:47 | 0:44:48 | |
Independence, you can't have a hard
or soft independence, and we don't | 0:44:48 | 0:44:51 | |
want some of our sovereignty back,
we want all of our sovereignty back. | 0:44:51 | 0:44:56 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:44:56 | 0:45:03 | |
Let's move on. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:07 | |
Libby Astbury, can we have
your question, please? | 0:45:07 | 0:45:09 | |
For how much longer
will the world watched | 0:45:09 | 0:45:11 | |
the war in Syria and allow
so many people to die? | 0:45:11 | 0:45:13 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:45:13 | 0:45:21 | |
Ash... | 0:45:21 | 0:45:25 | |
I think what we've seen in Syria
is an unprecedented level | 0:45:25 | 0:45:28 | |
of bloodshed and displacement,
and I think the first thing | 0:45:28 | 0:45:31 | |
that we can do as countries
which are privileged to | 0:45:31 | 0:45:36 | |
not be plunged into that kind of | 0:45:36 | 0:45:38 | |
conflict is to accept more of those
people who are displaced by | 0:45:38 | 0:45:41 | |
conflict. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:47 | |
I think we need to take a really
good long hard look at how | 0:45:47 | 0:45:50 | |
we treat refugees in this country. | 0:45:50 | 0:45:52 | |
Just yesterday, 120 people
at the Yarlswood Detention centre | 0:45:52 | 0:45:54 | |
have gone on hunger strike
for things as | 0:45:54 | 0:45:56 | |
basic as health care,
to have their cases heard | 0:45:56 | 0:45:58 | |
by a judge, and to have sexual
violence classified as | 0:45:58 | 0:46:00 | |
torture. | 0:46:00 | 0:46:04 | |
I know that you were immigration
Minister for a long | 0:46:04 | 0:46:06 | |
time, and I would like to ask you... | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
Sorry, I'm going to interrupt you... | 0:46:09 | 0:46:11 | |
What your views are on the
acceptance of treatment of refugees | 0:46:11 | 0:46:13 | |
in this country. | 0:46:13 | 0:46:15 | |
All right, we may come to that,
but can become to the | 0:46:15 | 0:46:18 | |
war in Syria, which is
what the question was about? | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
I know you want to say
that, or may want to say | 0:46:20 | 0:46:23 | |
that, but what about the war
in Syria, what should be done? | 0:46:23 | 0:46:26 | |
So, I think the first
commitment is to | 0:46:26 | 0:46:28 | |
absorbing more refugees. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:29 | |
I think the second
commitment would have to be | 0:46:29 | 0:46:31 | |
looking very carefully at Britain's
arms dealing policies. | 0:46:31 | 0:46:33 | |
I think that Britain's arms
dealing policies have | 0:46:33 | 0:46:35 | |
led to as much, as much
as its own military | 0:46:35 | 0:46:38 | |
interventions, has led
to | 0:46:38 | 0:46:39 | |
destabilisation of the middle
east as a region. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:41 | |
I think that those are two very
concrete aims that we can | 0:46:41 | 0:46:43 | |
pursue. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:44 | |
I'll come to your point later. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:46 | |
Camilla Tominey, do you think
there's more or anything that this | 0:46:46 | 0:46:52 | |
country can do, that others
can do in Syria now? | 0:46:52 | 0:46:54 | |
I suppose we've got
a history of brokering | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
peace. | 0:46:56 | 0:46:57 | |
Is it our place to go and do
that in the Middle East? | 0:46:57 | 0:47:01 | |
I don't think anyone
can look at any of the | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
images that come out of Syria these
days and not feel desperately sorry | 0:47:03 | 0:47:06 | |
for what is a gargantuan
human tragedy. | 0:47:06 | 0:47:08 | |
And again, we always say
after these horrific incidents, | 0:47:08 | 0:47:10 | |
never again, never again. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:11 | |
But equally, I think
there's a sense as | 0:47:11 | 0:47:13 | |
well that in terms of foreign
policy, intervention hasn't been | 0:47:13 | 0:47:16 | |
successful either,
and bringing people | 0:47:16 | 0:47:17 | |
together on both sides
of the | 0:47:17 | 0:47:18 | |
table doesn't seem to work. | 0:47:18 | 0:47:24 | |
Obviously, there's been great gains
against Daesh, and that should not | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
be underestimated,
but if you actually | 0:47:27 | 0:47:29 | |
listen to the people
on the | 0:47:29 | 0:47:31 | |
ground, the absolute abject horror
of what people are going through | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
there, I think, to be
perfectly honest, | 0:47:34 | 0:47:36 | |
as we sit here cosily
in | 0:47:36 | 0:47:38 | |
Question Time, it's beyond
the comprehension of most people. | 0:47:38 | 0:47:41 | |
I disagree. | 0:47:41 | 0:47:42 | |
I think Britain, by the way,
is a very compassionate | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
country. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:46 | |
I think we've been very
welcoming to asylum seekers. | 0:47:46 | 0:47:48 | |
Our Government isn't. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:49 | |
Well, I think the general
public, generally, when | 0:47:49 | 0:47:51 | |
there are these awful
humanitarian crises, | 0:47:51 | 0:47:52 | |
we dig deep, we try
and | 0:47:52 | 0:47:54 | |
donate, we empathise. | 0:47:54 | 0:47:55 | |
No one in their right
mind would turn around | 0:47:55 | 0:47:57 | |
to children coming from Syria
who are seeking asylum in this | 0:47:57 | 0:48:03 | |
country and in this audience
want to reject them. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:05 | |
So actually, let's not be
too down on Britain. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
I think Britain's been
very open-handed. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:11 | |
So why does our Government
turn away child | 0:48:11 | 0:48:13 | |
refugees? | 0:48:13 | 0:48:14 | |
I agree, Britain is a tolerant
country club at our | 0:48:14 | 0:48:16 | |
Government policy does not
match the public mood. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
Just make the point again,
because people were | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
applauding her point. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:22 | |
Just make the point
and then I'll put it | 0:48:22 | 0:48:24 | |
to Brandon Lewis. | 0:48:24 | 0:48:25 | |
I agree with you, I don't
think that the British | 0:48:25 | 0:48:27 | |
public looks at the plight of child
refugees and wants to turn away, so | 0:48:27 | 0:48:31 | |
why does our Government... | 0:48:31 | 0:48:32 | |
Why does our Government
insists that it's OK | 0:48:32 | 0:48:34 | |
to continue to detain pregnant
women, to split up families through | 0:48:34 | 0:48:36 | |
deportation? | 0:48:36 | 0:48:37 | |
This is my point, is that
Government policy does not | 0:48:37 | 0:48:40 | |
match the public mood,
which I think is one of compassion. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:44 | |
Brandon Lewis. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:49 | |
I think it's important to be very
clear about the fact ... | 0:48:49 | 0:48:53 | |
Because Ashley has
just said something | 0:48:53 | 0:48:55 | |
that's completely wrong. | 0:48:55 | 0:48:56 | |
We do not have refugees
in detention centres. | 0:48:56 | 0:48:58 | |
That is not how it works. | 0:48:58 | 0:48:59 | |
The people in detention
centres are people who | 0:48:59 | 0:49:04 | |
are illegally in this
country and are there | 0:49:04 | 0:49:06 | |
for a period of time
until | 0:49:06 | 0:49:14 | |
they are going back
to their home country. | 0:49:14 | 0:49:16 | |
That's factually untrue. | 0:49:16 | 0:49:17 | |
Ash... | 0:49:17 | 0:49:18 | |
We as a country are doing
one of the biggest | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
programmes we have ever done, 23,000
refugees coming to this country. | 0:49:21 | 0:49:23 | |
We are slightly ahead
of the schedule | 0:49:23 | 0:49:25 | |
that David Cameron set out. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:26 | |
I've been fortunate
in the period that I was | 0:49:26 | 0:49:29 | |
immigration minister to meet
a number of families who have come | 0:49:29 | 0:49:31 | |
from Syria to listen
to what they have come from, | 0:49:31 | 0:49:34 | |
the experience they've had, | 0:49:34 | 0:49:35 | |
the welcome they have had
from local authorities, | 0:49:35 | 0:49:37 | |
charities, community | 0:49:37 | 0:49:38 | |
groups when they have
come to this country. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:39 | |
We should be very proud
as a country not just | 0:49:39 | 0:49:42 | |
of the billions of pounds
we are | 0:49:42 | 0:49:44 | |
spending in the region to do our
bit, one of the biggest in the world | 0:49:44 | 0:49:47 | |
and the biggest aid programme
we have taken forward, | 0:49:47 | 0:49:49 | |
and the second largest support
in the world. | 0:49:49 | 0:49:51 | |
Camilla said, and I think it's
right, the welcome we give people in | 0:49:51 | 0:49:54 | |
this country, and there are 23,000
Syrian refugees coming to this | 0:49:54 | 0:49:57 | |
country, on top of
refugees from elsewhere. | 0:49:57 | 0:49:59 | |
We have a very strong programme
for refugees, and what | 0:49:59 | 0:50:01 | |
Ash has just outlined
is a completely false | 0:50:01 | 0:50:03 | |
statement about how
the | 0:50:03 | 0:50:04 | |
programme works. | 0:50:04 | 0:50:06 | |
It's not true. | 0:50:06 | 0:50:08 | |
Asylum seekers in Yarlswood... | 0:50:08 | 0:50:09 | |
Asylum seekers are not refugees. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:13 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:50:13 | 0:50:15 | |
They are
people have escaped | 0:50:15 | 0:50:17 | |
conflict, escaped torture, sexual
violence, and we continue to lock | 0:50:17 | 0:50:20 | |
them up. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:21 | |
No, no, that's wrong. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:22 | |
Do you think that's a just policy? | 0:50:22 | 0:50:24 | |
Do you think it's a just policy that
70% of detainees at Yarlswood who | 0:50:24 | 0:50:27 | |
are female have experienced
sexual violence? | 0:50:27 | 0:50:28 | |
Do you think that's just? | 0:50:28 | 0:50:30 | |
Ash, what you've just
said is, again, wrong. | 0:50:30 | 0:50:32 | |
That's a fact. | 0:50:32 | 0:50:35 | |
Detention centres are for people who
are being removed from the country, | 0:50:35 | 0:50:38 | |
going back to their own country,
who are in this country illegally. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:41 | |
Asylum seekers... | 0:50:41 | 0:50:42 | |
Who still have their
cases under review. | 0:50:42 | 0:50:44 | |
That's just a fact. | 0:50:44 | 0:50:45 | |
Asylum seekers go through
a different process. | 0:50:45 | 0:50:47 | |
People who are here
illegally are different | 0:50:47 | 0:50:49 | |
to asylum seekers, which is
different again from refugees. | 0:50:49 | 0:50:53 | |
There are different
processes, and you do | 0:50:53 | 0:50:55 | |
a disservice to people, and hard
working people across this country | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
working in those facilities helping
refugees and the refugees and asylum | 0:50:58 | 0:51:00 | |
seekers themselves when you
confuse the two things. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
Is that... | 0:51:03 | 0:51:04 | |
Hold on, Ash. | 0:51:04 | 0:51:11 | |
The person there. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:11 | |
Yes... | 0:51:11 | 0:51:12 | |
We talk about a skills crisis
in this country, but when | 0:51:12 | 0:51:15 | |
will the Government and companies do
more to recruit people who are | 0:51:15 | 0:51:18 | |
refugees..in this country who are | 0:51:18 | 0:51:19 | |
engineers and skilled people? | 0:51:19 | 0:51:22 | |
You make a very good
point with that. | 0:51:22 | 0:51:25 | |
There is a huge amount of work that
goes on when refugees come here, | 0:51:25 | 0:51:28 | |
making sure that they can learn
English, | 0:51:28 | 0:51:30 | |
get to a trade in this country,
and as I say, I have met a lot of | 0:51:30 | 0:51:34 | |
refugees who have been
through that, play | 0:51:34 | 0:51:36 | |
a hugely important part
in | 0:51:36 | 0:51:37 | |
their communities and in
the economy of this country. | 0:51:37 | 0:51:39 | |
That's why I say, we should be
proud as a country of | 0:51:39 | 0:51:42 | |
what we do for refugees
and we should continue to do it. | 0:51:42 | 0:51:45 | |
Libby, what do you
think should be done? | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
You asked the question. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:49 | |
Well, my question wasn't
really coming from | 0:51:49 | 0:51:51 | |
the point of refugees
as such, it's the people | 0:51:51 | 0:51:53 | |
who can't get out of
the | 0:51:53 | 0:51:54 | |
country. | 0:51:54 | 0:51:55 | |
And I'm sure the refugees
would rather like to stay in Syria | 0:51:55 | 0:51:59 | |
than come over here,
because that's their home, | 0:51:59 | 0:52:01 | |
and I just don't see how we've seen
so many attacks like just | 0:52:01 | 0:52:06 | |
recently on eastern Ghouta go on,
where there's hospitals who don't | 0:52:06 | 0:52:09 | |
have anything, and the UN are just
there saying, we need to end the | 0:52:09 | 0:52:13 | |
war. | 0:52:13 | 0:52:14 | |
It needs to be ended
but no one's really | 0:52:14 | 0:52:16 | |
doing much about it,
in | 0:52:16 | 0:52:17 | |
my opinion, and I was just wondering
why that is still the case. | 0:52:17 | 0:52:20 | |
John Prescott? | 0:52:20 | 0:52:23 | |
Well, I'm deeply saddened to listen
to the fact that we all | 0:52:23 | 0:52:26 | |
admit nothing more can be done. | 0:52:26 | 0:52:29 | |
There are problems
about refugees etc. | 0:52:29 | 0:52:32 | |
But when I turn on that television
and see those kids dying, | 0:52:32 | 0:52:36 | |
it's being done deliberately
as part of a war policy. | 0:52:36 | 0:52:38 | |
That makes him, Assad,
a man who has to be dealt | 0:52:38 | 0:52:41 | |
with when it comes. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:43 | |
It doesn't help
negotiations, of course. | 0:52:43 | 0:52:47 | |
Please negotiate with
him, we'll come to a | 0:52:47 | 0:52:49 | |
deal, stop this. | 0:52:49 | 0:52:50 | |
He's not going to say,
if I do that, will you take me | 0:52:50 | 0:52:53 | |
to the international court? | 0:52:53 | 0:52:57 | |
These are the difficulties. | 0:52:57 | 0:52:58 | |
My concern goes before that. | 0:52:58 | 0:52:59 | |
It takes me back to Iraq,
arguing with Tony Blair about | 0:52:59 | 0:53:02 | |
whether we should have regime
dismissal, that's what it's about | 0:53:02 | 0:53:05 | |
here. | 0:53:05 | 0:53:06 | |
If you look what Nato and Western
countries have been doing, | 0:53:06 | 0:53:08 | |
particularly in the Middle East,
we've made war between religions, we | 0:53:08 | 0:53:11 | |
intervened to say our values are
superior so we're going to remove | 0:53:11 | 0:53:14 | |
you from the actual
administration and control. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:17 | |
There's a fundamental issue here. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:20 | |
The UN can't do anything. | 0:53:20 | 0:53:23 | |
They talk about whether a veto
would stop anything, | 0:53:23 | 0:53:25 | |
whether it is American or Trump. | 0:53:25 | 0:53:31 | |
Trump basically and Putin,
they are global powers | 0:53:31 | 0:53:35 | |
who are now doing many things that
prevent dealing with the Syrians | 0:53:35 | 0:53:37 | |
properly. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:41 | |
The Russians are actively involved,
the Americans are prepared | 0:53:41 | 0:53:43 | |
to bomb. | 0:53:43 | 0:53:44 | |
We are actually sending in bombs,
basically, by this new | 0:53:44 | 0:53:50 | |
automatic business, I can't remember
the name of the damn weapons. | 0:53:50 | 0:53:52 | |
Drones. | 0:53:52 | 0:53:53 | |
And they use the drones. | 0:53:53 | 0:53:54 | |
Someone in Kent is actually
doing it now, as if | 0:53:54 | 0:53:57 | |
they were playing a game. | 0:53:57 | 0:53:58 | |
We've got to get out
of that situation, and | 0:53:58 | 0:54:00 | |
we've got to recognise,
it's not a popular view, | 0:54:00 | 0:54:02 | |
you can read about
the | 0:54:02 | 0:54:04 | |
Crusades. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:05 | |
We are doing the same thing now,
and we're paying a very | 0:54:05 | 0:54:08 | |
heavy price for it. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:09 | |
Not us in the studios today,
but the kids that you | 0:54:09 | 0:54:12 | |
see each night face
the consequences of us | 0:54:12 | 0:54:14 | |
making terrible decisions,
and | 0:54:14 | 0:54:18 | |
we think democracy and values is far
superior and quite prepared to | 0:54:18 | 0:54:22 | |
intervene militarily for it. | 0:54:22 | 0:54:27 | |
We better start thinking much more
deeper about what the results are, | 0:54:27 | 0:54:31 | |
and that the actions
of which Western powers, to my mind, | 0:54:31 | 0:54:33 | |
and Nato have been actively involved
in in | 0:54:33 | 0:54:36 | |
the name of democracy. | 0:54:36 | 0:54:37 | |
Tell the kids that. | 0:54:37 | 0:54:38 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:54:38 | 0:54:42 | |
Juergen Maier. | 0:54:42 | 0:54:46 | |
There are two discussions
going on here, and one | 0:54:46 | 0:54:49 | |
is, can we do more with regard
to refugees coming here? | 0:54:49 | 0:54:52 | |
And I certainly think
we can and should, | 0:54:52 | 0:54:58 | |
and I also very much
agree with your point, | 0:54:58 | 0:55:00 | |
though obviously the key reason
for doing that is | 0:55:00 | 0:55:02 | |
humanitarian, but there is an issue
where actually these people are | 0:55:02 | 0:55:05 | |
coming with very good educations. | 0:55:05 | 0:55:08 | |
I've met people from Syria who come
with great engineering degrees and | 0:55:08 | 0:55:10 | |
can do great jobs in companies
like ours, so there is that. | 0:55:10 | 0:55:15 | |
But I think ultimately,
the only way the problem | 0:55:15 | 0:55:17 | |
will be solved is to
resolve it at source, | 0:55:17 | 0:55:20 | |
which is I think really
what | 0:55:20 | 0:55:21 | |
your question was -
what more can we do | 0:55:21 | 0:55:23 | |
to resolve the conflict? | 0:55:23 | 0:55:25 | |
And I do think we are
in a pretty horrible | 0:55:25 | 0:55:28 | |
place, where the key sort
of superpowers to which we do | 0:55:28 | 0:55:31 | |
belong, we are all a little bit too
inwardly | 0:55:31 | 0:55:35 | |
focused on our own domestic issues. | 0:55:35 | 0:55:39 | |
The America-first
principle in America, | 0:55:39 | 0:55:44 | |
and ultimately we can't
do | 0:55:44 | 0:55:47 | |
this on our own. | 0:55:47 | 0:55:48 | |
We tried that once before
and it didn't work. | 0:55:48 | 0:55:51 | |
It takes a catalyst,
and maybe that's what we | 0:55:51 | 0:55:53 | |
should be, to bring
some of these parties | 0:55:53 | 0:55:55 | |
together with the UN,
who do | 0:55:55 | 0:55:56 | |
seem to be powerless,
but I think that nations need | 0:55:56 | 0:55:59 | |
to come together and ultimately sort
out what we can | 0:55:59 | 0:56:01 | |
do to sort this horrible, horrible
situation going on in Syria, and | 0:56:01 | 0:56:04 | |
stop it at source. | 0:56:04 | 0:56:08 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:56:08 | 0:56:14 | |
Should we
actually be looking at | 0:56:14 | 0:56:16 | |
creating a new global
organisation, because | 0:56:16 | 0:56:18 | |
the United Nations,
the | 0:56:18 | 0:56:20 | |
Security Council and all the other
things you have been talking about | 0:56:20 | 0:56:24 | |
have failed us, decade after decade,
and really have a different approach | 0:56:24 | 0:56:27 | |
globally? | 0:56:27 | 0:56:30 | |
Do you see the United Nations
as a failure, very briefly? | 0:56:30 | 0:56:33 | |
We're coming to the end,
but it's a good point. | 0:56:33 | 0:56:36 | |
No, I don't, and I think we can
get very caught up in | 0:56:36 | 0:56:40 | |
creating new structures when really
what we need to do is look at the | 0:56:40 | 0:56:43 | |
outcomes. | 0:56:43 | 0:56:44 | |
I think there is a good point that
Juergen makes around | 0:56:44 | 0:56:47 | |
making sure we are working together
properly with the UN to get a | 0:56:47 | 0:56:50 | |
solution, but one led by... | 0:56:50 | 0:56:51 | |
Ultimately, is able to have
a situation where the Syrian people | 0:56:51 | 0:56:54 | |
are able to govern themselves again. | 0:56:54 | 0:56:57 | |
We are a long way that
at the moment, looking | 0:56:57 | 0:56:59 | |
at the horrendous scenes | 0:56:59 | 0:57:00 | |
we've seen over the weekend. | 0:57:00 | 0:57:01 | |
But I think we have
got to keep working | 0:57:01 | 0:57:03 | |
away. | 0:57:03 | 0:57:04 | |
There was a time when we thought
the UN could help solve some | 0:57:04 | 0:57:08 | |
of these ghastly,
murderous problems, | 0:57:08 | 0:57:09 | |
and now, that point,
the | 0:57:09 | 0:57:10 | |
lady says, seems to have passed
and we can no longer rely on it. | 0:57:10 | 0:57:13 | |
Seven years we've
seen these scenes in | 0:57:13 | 0:57:15 | |
Syria, seven years, not a few days,
and we have not achieved anything, | 0:57:15 | 0:57:18 | |
as far as I can see. | 0:57:18 | 0:57:25 | |
Look, I appreciate
it is horrendous what | 0:57:25 | 0:57:27 | |
we're seeing happening
there, but I do think | 0:57:27 | 0:57:29 | |
ultimately we have got
a | 0:57:29 | 0:57:30 | |
regime in Syria that is treating
its own people in a way | 0:57:30 | 0:57:33 | |
that we struggle to comprehend
as individuals in the | 0:57:33 | 0:57:38 | |
Western world and to look
at what they're doing. | 0:57:38 | 0:57:40 | |
But I do think the UN is the right
body to try and bring people | 0:57:40 | 0:57:44 | |
together to get a resolution that
ultimately can get to a better | 0:57:44 | 0:57:47 | |
place. | 0:57:47 | 0:57:48 | |
I'm sorry, we have to stop. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:49 | |
But a global solution
showed that the | 0:57:49 | 0:57:51 | |
world could get together to deal
with the climate change problem. | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
All races got together to find that
agreement, so there is a | 0:57:54 | 0:57:56 | |
possibility, but you've
got to work at it. | 0:57:56 | 0:57:58 | |
All right. | 0:57:58 | 0:57:59 | |
We have to end there. | 0:57:59 | 0:58:01 | |
Our time is up. | 0:58:01 | 0:58:03 | |
Next Thursday,
Question Time is coming | 0:58:03 | 0:58:05 | |
from Blackpool, and
on the panel we have | 0:58:05 | 0:58:08 | |
Nigel Farage, Diane Abbott,
and | 0:58:08 | 0:58:11 | |
Ken Clarke. | 0:58:11 | 0:58:12 | |
Oh! | 0:58:12 | 0:58:13 | |
Oh! | 0:58:13 | 0:58:17 | |
And a week after that,
we're going to be in | 0:58:17 | 0:58:19 | |
Westminster. | 0:58:19 | 0:58:20 | |
We have Liam Fox, the trade
Secretary, and the Bake Off | 0:58:20 | 0:58:23 | |
judge, Pru Leith,
on the panel there. | 0:58:23 | 0:58:25 | |
Now, those are two editions
of Question Time, one in Blackpool, | 0:58:25 | 0:58:27 | |
one in Westminster, to go to either,
on the screen there is the address, | 0:58:27 | 0:58:31 | |
our website, or the number to call. | 0:58:31 | 0:58:37 | |
Now, as you know, the debate we've
been having here carries on on BBC | 0:58:40 | 0:58:44 | |
Radio 5 Live, the BBC,
with Adrian Chiles and Chris Mason. | 0:58:44 | 0:58:46 | |
They're waiting for your call. | 0:58:46 | 0:58:47 | |
If you want to get
involved in that, the text | 0:58:47 | 0:58:51 | |
number is on the screen
now, and you can also | 0:58:51 | 0:58:54 | |
follow their discussions
on | 0:58:54 | 0:58:55 | |
iPlayer. | 0:58:55 | 0:58:56 | |
Here, my thanks to the panel,
to all of you who came to | 0:58:56 | 0:58:59 | |
Uttoxeter. | 0:58:59 | 0:59:00 | |
Until next Thursday,
from Question Time, good night. | 0:59:00 | 0:59:08 |