:00:00. > :00:08.Heated exchanges in the Scottish Parliament as MSPs debate
:00:09. > :00:17.whether there should be a second independence referendum.
:00:18. > :00:24.For the UK Government to stand in the way of Scotland even having a
:00:25. > :00:29.choice would be, in my view, wrong, unfair and utterly unsustainable.
:00:30. > :00:33.Most people in Scotland are sick to death of The Games. Most people in
:00:34. > :00:36.Scotland don't want another referendum any time soon.
:00:37. > :00:38.Nicola Sturgeon wants another vote by Spring 2019,
:00:39. > :00:42.the Prime Minister says that's too soon.
:00:43. > :00:49.Join me for a special debate as an audience of viewers put their
:00:50. > :00:53.questions on independence and Brexit to Fiona Hyslop from the SNP and
:00:54. > :00:58.Adam Tomkins from the Scottish Conservatives. Also tonight...
:00:59. > :01:00.A medical tribunal hears about the chaos at Heathrow Airport
:01:01. > :01:02.as ebola nurse Pauline Cafferkey returned from Sierra Leone.
:01:03. > :01:05.And keeping it in the family - how a married couple
:01:06. > :01:18.from the Borders have made military history.
:01:19. > :01:23.Nicola Sturgeon has accused the Prime Minister of acting
:01:24. > :01:25.as a "road block" preventing Scotland from having a real choice
:01:26. > :01:29.But the First Minister's critics said she would use
:01:30. > :01:32.anything as "an excuse" to promote independence.
:01:33. > :01:35.The exchanges came during the first day of debate over a demand
:01:36. > :01:38.for Theresa May to concede a second referendum on Scotland's future.
:01:39. > :01:49.This from our political editor Brian Taylor.
:01:50. > :02:02.It is about time, timing, complex, political interplay. Theresa May is
:02:03. > :02:06.about to signal the start Britain's withdrawal from the European Union.
:02:07. > :02:11.That should take two years. She doesn't want to contemplate a
:02:12. > :02:16.Scottish referendum during that period. But that strikes Nicola
:02:17. > :02:19.Sturgeon as unfair. She says Scotland should be given a choice
:02:20. > :02:27.before or just as Britain leaves the European Union. Between autumn 2018
:02:28. > :02:31.and spring the year after. Nicola Sturgeon said it weighed heavily
:02:32. > :02:36.upon her to call a rougher random, which many didn't relish. But she
:02:37. > :02:41.blamed the Prime Minister for refusing to compromise on continuing
:02:42. > :02:45.Scottish links with the EU. It will simply not be acceptable for the UK
:02:46. > :02:48.Government to stand as a roadblock to the democratically expressed will
:02:49. > :02:53.of this Parliament. For the UK Government to stand in the wake of
:02:54. > :02:59.Scotland even having a choice, would be, in my view, wrong, unfair and
:03:00. > :03:04.utterly unsustainable. But union supporters harked back to the
:03:05. > :03:06.Edinburgh agreement which paved the way for the independence referendum
:03:07. > :03:12.in 2014. They said the SNP had broken its pledge to respect the
:03:13. > :03:17.outcome and a rerun was wrong. Most people in Scotland are sick to death
:03:18. > :03:20.of The Games. Most people in Scotland don't want another
:03:21. > :03:23.referendum any time soon, three years after the last one and most
:03:24. > :03:29.people in Scotland see the common-sense in our own position.
:03:30. > :03:33.Which is a second independence referendum shouldn't even be
:03:34. > :03:39.contemplated until Brexit is resolved. Labour's leader said she
:03:40. > :03:43.hated Tory rule, but... They want to replace Tory austerity with
:03:44. > :03:48.turbo-charged austerity. Because the truth of the matter is, separation
:03:49. > :03:52.would mean ?15 billion worth of cuts. Willie Rennie said those
:03:53. > :03:57.against the referendum had faced a torrent of abuse from Independent
:03:58. > :04:02.supporters. A second referendum would only make that worse. It will
:04:03. > :04:09.be defied amylase, it will divide him Billy Maka communities and
:04:10. > :04:18.divide communities. That is what happened last time. It is nice to be
:04:19. > :04:21.given such a warm welcome. Ironic groans greeted Patrick Harvie.
:04:22. > :04:26.Critics said the Greens have ruled out a referendum unless there was
:04:27. > :04:31.public demand, but Mr Harvey brushed that aside. It is, Presiding
:04:32. > :04:36.Officer, absurd to suggest we should not respond to and react to the
:04:37. > :04:41.situation and the fundamentally changed circumstances we find
:04:42. > :04:46.ourselves in. Outside Parliament, the attendant media, observing,
:04:47. > :04:51.scrutinising. There is sound, there is light and tomorrow, there is a
:04:52. > :04:52.vote on whether Holyrood demands another independence referendum.
:04:53. > :04:58.Did we learn anything new in the debate?
:04:59. > :05:05.One of the arguments were familiar, but we saw displayed again, the very
:05:06. > :05:12.fact there is vehement discourse over independence on occasion.
:05:13. > :05:16.Actually today, it was vitriolic. We saw the entrenched positions of the
:05:17. > :05:21.various parties. But one thing differs, in 2014 he was accepted
:05:22. > :05:25.there was to be referendum and the discourse was the nature of
:05:26. > :05:30.independence on offer. This time it is not accepted there should be a
:05:31. > :05:34.referendum. Those supporting the union say it is unwanted and
:05:35. > :05:41.unwelcome. The First Minister says there will be instability in the UK
:05:42. > :05:46.constitution and the question is whether joins in a choice with
:05:47. > :05:51.regards to that change. Do you think the argument we are hearing at
:05:52. > :05:57.Holyrood today and tomorrow, will influence Westminster in any way? I
:05:58. > :06:01.don't see that happening. And the Conservative leader described this
:06:02. > :06:04.debate as Groundhog Day. When she and David Blondel stood up on
:06:05. > :06:08.Thursday responding to the primers's remarked that she would not
:06:09. > :06:16.contemplate another referendum at this point, David Blondel said doing
:06:17. > :06:21.it ahead of the debate was to leave the SNP in no doubt before they cast
:06:22. > :06:23.the vote. And that vote will be tomorrow evening here at Holyrood.
:06:24. > :06:24.Thank you very much. Meanwhile, it's understood MPs have
:06:25. > :06:27.put off a final decision on whether the issue of a future
:06:28. > :06:29.referendum on Scottish independence should get a further
:06:30. > :06:31.airing at Westminster. An e-petition calling for a ban
:06:32. > :06:34.on it has attracted more The Commons Petitions Committee
:06:35. > :06:39.today considered whether a debate should be held by MPs
:06:40. > :06:41.on the subject, but failed The expectation is that it will be
:06:42. > :06:45.debated, but it may be linked to a counter petition in favour
:06:46. > :06:49.of a second independence referendum. The First Minister has paid tribute
:06:50. > :06:52.to Martin McGuinness, the former deputy First Minister
:06:53. > :06:55.of Northern Ireland who died today. Nicola Sturgeon says
:06:56. > :06:59.without his "hard and brave work" to bridge the divide,
:07:00. > :07:03.peace would not have been achieved. Ms Sturgeon got to know
:07:04. > :07:05.Mr McGuinness through their work She said he was optimistic
:07:06. > :07:10.about the future but also understood the "fragility"
:07:11. > :07:15.of the peace process. The death of Martin McGuinness has
:07:16. > :07:18.brought intense reflection both on his role as former IRA commander
:07:19. > :07:21.and as one of the architects of Tonight, while he received praise
:07:22. > :07:26.from a former Scottish MP who served at the Northern Ireland Office,
:07:27. > :07:29.the family of a soldier murdered by the IRA said they hoped
:07:30. > :07:34.Martin McGuinness would be remembered as a terrorist
:07:35. > :07:51.and not a statesman. Killed by the IRA in March 19 71.
:07:52. > :07:57.He'd only been in the province a few weeks. It was a honey trap, longer
:07:58. > :08:01.two other Scottish soldiers, teenagers John and Joseph McCague,
:08:02. > :08:05.you was Lord to a remote spot and shot dead. It was a pivotal moment
:08:06. > :08:10.and shattered their families. His cousin David was just three at the
:08:11. > :08:14.time. No one has been convicted of the murders and an inquest returned
:08:15. > :08:20.an open verdict. But David said the scar on his family has never healed.
:08:21. > :08:22.He is convinced that as an IRA commander at the time, Martin
:08:23. > :08:29.McGuinness must have known who was responsible. Martin McGuinness
:08:30. > :08:36.played a part in the republican movement along with Gerry Adams. If
:08:37. > :08:42.anything happened on the streets, Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness
:08:43. > :08:45.knew about it. Today, some of those who worked with Martin McGuinness
:08:46. > :08:51.during the peace process say he played a crucial role in forging the
:08:52. > :08:56.Good Friday agreement. There was a good Martin McGuinness and a bad
:08:57. > :09:00.Martin McGuinness. He fought the bad fighter but then went on to fight
:09:01. > :09:05.the good fight. Because of that we have the situation in Northern
:09:06. > :09:10.Ireland today which is unparalleled. There is a peace process there and
:09:11. > :09:14.he is a big feature of that. 46 years on, still campaigning for a
:09:15. > :09:18.public enquiry into the deaths of the soldiers, David says he remains
:09:19. > :09:24.convinced that Martin McGuinness went to his grave with secrets.
:09:25. > :09:25.People will look on him as a statesman, other people will look
:09:26. > :09:30.upon him as a terrorist. A doctor has told a tribunal
:09:31. > :09:33.about the awful conditions that medical staff had to work
:09:34. > :09:35.in during an Ebola outbreak The hearing is investigating
:09:36. > :09:38.the circumstances surrounding Scottish nurse Pauline Cafferkey's
:09:39. > :09:40.return to the UK. But this disciplinary medical
:09:41. > :09:52.correspondent, Dominic Hughes. But this disciplinary medical
:09:53. > :09:57.tribunal in Manchester heard today from Doctor Sharon Irvine, along
:09:58. > :10:00.with Doctor Hannah Ryan and Pauline Cafferkey were part of NHS
:10:01. > :10:06.volunteers who travelled out to Sierra Leone in 2014 at the height
:10:07. > :10:10.of the Ebola clinic. She told the tribunal of the horrendous
:10:11. > :10:14.conditions. 40 degrees heat, wearing top to toe protective clothing with
:10:15. > :10:18.goggles and masks. It was extremely hot and they had to wear compares in
:10:19. > :10:22.case one of them fainted and all the time surrounded by people who were
:10:23. > :10:26.dying from Ebola. So not surprisingly at the end of their
:10:27. > :10:31.stint, they were keen to be reunited with friends and family back at the
:10:32. > :10:35.UK. When they arrived at Heathrow Airport they were confronted by a
:10:36. > :10:40.screening Centre. That was described as chaotic, it was crowded, it was
:10:41. > :10:44.noisy. She went through that screening process but when she was
:10:45. > :10:47.in the arrivals hall, she was approached by Dr Hannah Ryan who
:10:48. > :10:54.said there was a problem with Pauline Cafferkey's temperature.
:10:55. > :10:59.Says she said immediately, we have got to contact Public Health England
:11:00. > :11:04.and get her back into screening. We do know Pauline Cafferkey had gone
:11:05. > :11:05.back into screening but had taken paracetamol, head temperature had
:11:06. > :11:09.back into screening but had taken come down a bit so she was allowed
:11:10. > :11:13.to get on the flight to Glasgow. The next day she collapsed and was
:11:14. > :11:20.diagnosed with Ebola. The tribunal also heard from nurse Donna would he
:11:21. > :11:25.was with Pauline Cafferkey and Dr Ryan when Dr Ryan the Pauline
:11:26. > :11:28.Cafferkey's temperature and Dr Ryan's QC suggested it was nurse
:11:29. > :11:34.Donna Ward who wrote the wrong temperature down on the format they
:11:35. > :11:38.had to fill in, but she denies that. Hannah Ryan has admitted she knew
:11:39. > :11:42.Pauline Cafferkey had a higher temperature and she went along with
:11:43. > :11:45.writing down the lower temperature on the form. She failed to tell
:11:46. > :11:50.Public Health England staff there was a problem with the temperature
:11:51. > :11:53.and then she failed to be entirely straight, initially at least, with a
:11:54. > :11:55.public-health enquiry after the event. She says her actions don't
:11:56. > :12:00.amount to misconduct. Moves are under way to extradite
:12:01. > :12:03.a retired priest from Canada to Scotland in connection
:12:04. > :12:05.with child abuse claims. The Crown Office has been granted
:12:06. > :12:08.a petition warrant for the arrest of Father Robert MacKenzie,
:12:09. > :12:10.who lives in Saskatchewan. The 84 year-old taught
:12:11. > :12:12.at the former Fort Augustus Abbey School before moving
:12:13. > :12:14.to Canada in 1988. Papers are now being prepared
:12:15. > :12:16.in the Crown Office to submit an extradition request
:12:17. > :12:20.to the Canadian authorities. A plumber is to face trial accused
:12:21. > :12:24.of causing a gas explosion in 2013, which saw this home's owners buried
:12:25. > :12:26.in the rubble. Craig Hall is alleged to have failed
:12:27. > :12:29.to properly install a boiler at Robin and Marion Cunningham's
:12:30. > :12:33.house in Callander. A married couple from the Borders
:12:34. > :12:40.are making military history. Lieutenant Colonel Gill Wilkinson
:12:41. > :13:02.is passing command of her regiment Meet Mr and Mrs Allen and Gill
:13:03. > :13:06.Wilkinson. They are all so both Lieutenant Colonel Wilkinson and one
:13:07. > :13:11.has just taken the job from the other. Alan is in charge of Gill's
:13:12. > :13:17.old regiment, making them the highest ranking couple to follow
:13:18. > :13:21.each other in a command role. When a commanding officer leaves the
:13:22. > :13:25.command, they don't look back at the regiment, they leave the next seal
:13:26. > :13:29.to carry on. Although I am trying to do that, I can ask how people are
:13:30. > :13:35.getting on and satisfied that parental bed. We work in a court
:13:36. > :13:39.where men and women do equal jobs. It is unusual to have the husband
:13:40. > :13:45.taking over from the wife or the other way around. There will always
:13:46. > :13:49.be good banter. You have almost finished the course? Alan is
:13:50. > :13:53.settling well into his white's old job while she is taking another
:13:54. > :13:57.position in the reserves. They say this unusual handover shows how
:13:58. > :14:05.opportunities for women in the Army are changing. Since I joined,
:14:06. > :14:10.opportunities are increasing. Women are moving into combat roles. Does
:14:11. > :14:16.Gill have any advice for her husband? She is always giving me
:14:17. > :14:27.valuable advice. So yes, some is good, some I listen to and I do make
:14:28. > :14:29.my own assessment. Both Lieutenant Colonel Wilkinson resists the
:14:30. > :14:34.temptation to talk shop at home. Scotland's third most-capped rugby
:14:35. > :14:37.player is to bring an end to his 17-year career at the end
:14:38. > :14:40.of the season. Sean Lamont, seen here scoring
:14:41. > :14:42.against Italy, amassed 105 The 36 year-old also helped
:14:43. > :14:46.Glasgow Warriors to their first ever I'll be back later, but now
:14:47. > :14:53.we to cross to my colleague Glenn Campbell for a special
:14:54. > :15:05.Brexit debate. The Prime Minister Theresa May is
:15:06. > :15:13.going to start the two-year process to take the UK out of the EU next
:15:14. > :15:16.Wednesday. Tomorrow, a majority of MSPs are expected to back Nicola
:15:17. > :15:21.Sturgeon in her call for the power to hold a second referendum on
:15:22. > :15:27.Scottish independence, towards the end of the Brexit negotiations.
:15:28. > :15:33.Plenty to talk about then. Debating before this live audience, two MSPs
:15:34. > :15:38.with different views on Brexit and independence. We have the Scottish
:15:39. > :15:43.Conservatives, Adam Tomkins who is a professor of constitutional law. And
:15:44. > :15:45.the Cabinet Secretary for external furs, Fiona Hyslop from the SNP.
:15:46. > :16:01.APPLAUSE They will be taking questions both
:16:02. > :16:04.from me and from our audience, which includes members from both sides in
:16:05. > :16:08.the independence debate, and some who are undecided. Let's go straight
:16:09. > :16:14.to our first question, which comes from Janet... Should Theresa May be
:16:15. > :16:21.allowed to delay the Scottish referendum because of Brexit? Should
:16:22. > :16:26.she be allowed, Fiona Hyslop, to delay beyond the point of the
:16:27. > :16:31.conclusion of the Brexit negotiations? The answer to that is
:16:32. > :16:35.no. What we do agree with Theresa May on is, what we suggesting is, we
:16:36. > :16:39.have a referendum at the point when we know what the terms of the Brexit
:16:40. > :16:43.deal are. It should not be now. So we agree on that. That would allow
:16:44. > :16:46.the Scottish people to have the choice on what they want. Brexit has
:16:47. > :16:50.changed everything, and we need to make sure that Scotland is in the
:16:51. > :16:53.best position to make sure that we can take advantage of the things
:16:54. > :16:57.that are important to Scotland in terms of the type of country we want
:16:58. > :17:02.to have, in terms of the economy, and what is in the best interests of
:17:03. > :17:05.the economy. Also from a democracy point of view, it is really
:17:06. > :17:08.important that it is the people of Scotland who have the choice, airing
:17:09. > :17:15.in mind that 62% of people voted to remain. I know there's mixed
:17:16. > :17:19.feelings. Some people may have changed their minds, but the choice
:17:20. > :17:22.has two lies not with the politicians or the First Minister,
:17:23. > :17:27.it really has to live with the people of Scotland at that time.
:17:28. > :17:34.That would be 18 months to two years away, when the content of the Brexit
:17:35. > :17:37.deal is available. And at that point, the choice should be with the
:17:38. > :17:41.people of Scotland. The timetable the First Minister has suggested is
:17:42. > :17:46.between the autumn of next year and the spring of 2019, surely we should
:17:47. > :17:51.know the broad details of our exit deal from the EU by then, what is
:17:52. > :17:55.wrong with that timescale? The question of the timing is really
:17:56. > :17:57.extremely important. I think it is important that we understand how
:17:58. > :18:03.this was done, with the independence referendum in 2014. It was done by
:18:04. > :18:09.both the Westminster government and the Scottish Government agreeing a
:18:10. > :18:11.timescale so the Section 30 order which was passed in Westminster
:18:12. > :18:17.which gave the Scottish Parliament the power, legally come to hold that
:18:18. > :18:21.decisive referendum in 2014, had to be held within a certain window of
:18:22. > :18:24.time within a period which was agreed by the United Kingdom
:18:25. > :18:27.government and the Scottish Government acting together. What
:18:28. > :18:34.happened last week could hardly be more different from that process.
:18:35. > :18:39.Because what happened last week was the First Minister of Scotland
:18:40. > :18:43.announcing some kind of unilateral demand that there had to be a second
:18:44. > :18:47.independence referendum, notwithstanding the fact that the
:18:48. > :18:51.SNP had said it was a once in a generation event, there had to be a
:18:52. > :18:57.second referendum within a certain period of time, between the end of
:18:58. > :19:00.2018 and the beginning of 2019. I think Theresa May, as Prime Minister
:19:01. > :19:03.of the whole of the United Kingdom, is absolutely right to say that now
:19:04. > :19:09.is not the time to ask this question again. But what about towards the
:19:10. > :19:14.end of the Brexit negotiations, which is what the First Minister is
:19:15. > :19:17.for, can she sit down with the Prime Minister and come to an agreement
:19:18. > :19:21.between we have to understand this from a position of principal. I go
:19:22. > :19:24.back to the principles which were laid down in the Edinburgh
:19:25. > :19:27.agreement, signed by Nicola Sturgeon, as do pity First Minister,
:19:28. > :19:32.as well as by David Cameron and others from both governments. That
:19:33. > :19:36.agreement said that an independence referendum was to be clear, fair,
:19:37. > :19:39.legal and precise. It just wouldn't be fair to ask the people of
:19:40. > :19:44.Scotland to decide on the independence question while there is
:19:45. > :19:48.no clarity around either what the United Kingdom's relationship with
:19:49. > :19:54.the European Union is going to be, or indeed Scotland's relationship
:19:55. > :20:01.would be, either. Contact there will be more clarity around the Brexit
:20:02. > :20:05.deal by the time we get to 2018, and there will be serious concerns about
:20:06. > :20:09.the management of the whole Brexit process. Remember, it is about
:20:10. > :20:17.democracy. Let me bring in some members of the audience. Starting in
:20:18. > :20:23.the back row. European citizens were allowed to vote in the independence
:20:24. > :20:28.referendum in 2014. According to the timescale suggested by Theresa May,
:20:29. > :20:32.it will be very likely that we will not have a voice in another
:20:33. > :20:38.referendum if it happens after Brexit. You would want EU citizens
:20:39. > :20:43.to have that voice? I would like to have a voice. Presumably you are
:20:44. > :20:46.anticipating that there will be a demand for another referendum, on
:20:47. > :20:50.the basis of that question. The gentleman here. Is it not
:20:51. > :20:54.unreasonable to ask the Prime gentleman here. Is it not
:20:55. > :20:59.Minister to fight a constitutional issue in the UK simultaneously with
:21:00. > :21:02.the EU? Is it not a distraction from the objectives of the Brexit
:21:03. > :21:10.negotiations? Perhaps we will pick up on that. The lady in the front.
:21:11. > :21:18.Brexit means the entirety of the UK is leaving the EU. There's no
:21:19. > :21:21.guarantee that the EU will then allow Scotland to debate for itself
:21:22. > :21:26.a package to remain within the EU whilst we are still part of the UK.
:21:27. > :21:31.I think it is not necessarily true to suggest that the two could happen
:21:32. > :21:33.at once, in such a timescale. So you're not against another
:21:34. > :21:40.independence referendum, but it should happen after the UK has left?
:21:41. > :21:44.I am massively against another referendum, not at all. But I think
:21:45. > :21:47.the SNP is really misleading Scotland on what we are actually
:21:48. > :21:52.capable of negotiating with the EU. Lady next to you is shaking her
:21:53. > :21:56.head. Given the fact that the political landscape has changed,
:21:57. > :22:01.there is no question that Scotland voted to remain in the EU. So Brexit
:22:02. > :22:05.actually forces an undemocratic action on a democratic people. We
:22:06. > :22:11.have a clear mandate to have a second referendum, which was in the
:22:12. > :22:14.manifesto, that should circumstances change, we have the right to have a
:22:15. > :22:18.second referendum on independence. Let's pick up that point. There was
:22:19. > :22:23.a reference to this in the SNP manifesto, but as we mentioned in
:22:24. > :22:27.the introduction, Adam Tomkins, by this time tomorrow, the Scottish
:22:28. > :22:29.Parliament, by majority, will probably have urged the First
:22:30. > :22:34.Minister to seek power from the UK Government to have another
:22:35. > :22:38.referendum. What does the Prime Minister tactic? Well, since the
:22:39. > :22:41.last election of a Scottish Parliament in May of last year, the
:22:42. > :22:44.SNP government have lost five different votes on five different
:22:45. > :22:49.subjects in the Scottish Parliament. And they have ignored every single
:22:50. > :22:54.one - on education, on health, on enterprise boards, on energy. So if
:22:55. > :22:57.the Scottish Government can ignore the verdicts of the Scottish
:22:58. > :23:00.Parliament, when the Scottish Parliament is supposed to be
:23:01. > :23:04.accountable, what on earth is the grounds for saying that the vote
:23:05. > :23:09.tomorrow on a non-binding motion should somehow bind the hand of the
:23:10. > :23:14.United Kingdom's Prime Minister when the United Kingdom's Prime Minister
:23:15. > :23:17.is about to embark on what will be the most complex and difficult
:23:18. > :23:24.negotiations of our political lifetime? Socially should stick to
:23:25. > :23:26.her guns? I don't think the vote in the Scottish Parliament tomorrow
:23:27. > :23:30.night will make any difference to the way in which the Prime Minister
:23:31. > :23:32.has to carry on with her job as the Prime Minister of the United
:23:33. > :23:36.Kingdom, and that job is to secure the best deal on leaving the
:23:37. > :23:40.European Union for the whole of the United Kingdom, including for
:23:41. > :23:43.Scotland. I agree that the noises around a second independence
:23:44. > :23:47.referendum at this in a butcher in time are a distraction from what is
:23:48. > :23:51.the most difficult and bishops and important set of negotiations that
:23:52. > :24:01.the United Kingdom will be embarking upon in our lifetimes. The speaker,
:24:02. > :24:04.we are not saying... Fiona Hyslop, why should the UK Prime Minister,
:24:05. > :24:09.the UK Government, respect the will of the Scottish Parliament, when as
:24:10. > :24:13.Adam Tomkins pointed out of the Scottish Government doesn't always
:24:14. > :24:17.do that? We do, we go back to Parliament on all those votes that
:24:18. > :24:24.he mentioned. A mandate in a manifesto clearly adds wait and is a
:24:25. > :24:27.mandate to have a referendum in changed circumstances. It's not just
:24:28. > :24:30.about the Scottish Government, it's also about the Scottish Parliament
:24:31. > :24:34.and the will of the people of Scotland. In Scotland, the people of
:24:35. > :24:38.Scotland are sovereign. I want to get back to the point the audience
:24:39. > :24:48.were making about the Brexit negotiations. If we're going to be
:24:49. > :24:50.held captive by a hard Brexit right-wing Conservative government
:24:51. > :24:54.for two years, maybe more, just to see if it might work out all right,
:24:55. > :24:59.that's a very dangerous position to be in. It's about democracy but it
:25:00. > :25:04.is also about the people of Scotland having the choice. That to me is the
:25:05. > :25:08.fundamental part of it. That's why the Scottish Parliament's vote
:25:09. > :25:10.tomorrow is not just about Brexit or independence, it's about the right
:25:11. > :25:18.of the Scottish people to exercise their sovereignty. Which we
:25:19. > :25:24.exercised in 2014 and we said no. Changed circumstances. You are
:25:25. > :25:27.determined that there should be another independence referendum on
:25:28. > :25:32.that basis, but what if the Prime Minister says no, she's rejecting
:25:33. > :25:37.the timetable, what will you do then? Theresa May has to respect the
:25:38. > :25:42.sovereignty of the Scottish people. But if she says no, what is your
:25:43. > :25:46.next move? We have been waiting patiently to have engagement on the
:25:47. > :25:49.context of the Brexit has voted for by the United Kingdom. We have put
:25:50. > :25:53.forward compromise proposals which would have had a situation where
:25:54. > :25:57.Scotland could have remained as part of the single market. I understand
:25:58. > :26:00.that, but if the position is that the Prime Minister is not prepared
:26:01. > :26:04.to transfer the power, to have another referendum in the timescale
:26:05. > :26:08.that the First Minister has set out, what you can do? We are now within
:26:09. > :26:13.the eight days of the Article 50 letter which will take the UK out of
:26:14. > :26:19.the European Union, and we have no content or detail about that. There
:26:20. > :26:23.is fundamental constitutional change taking place. Is it an option for
:26:24. > :26:27.you to have another referendum anyway, without the authority of
:26:28. > :26:30.Westminster? Well, we want a referendum which is legal and
:26:31. > :26:33.constitutional. We think we have got the authority for the Scottish
:26:34. > :26:38.Parliament by a democratic vote tomorrow, that is the authority that
:26:39. > :26:44.we would have. But can you have a referendum without that authority?
:26:45. > :26:46.In the past, the Conservative Party has ignored the will of the people
:26:47. > :26:50.In the past, the Conservative Party of Scotland, and we saw what
:26:51. > :26:55.happened in the 1980s and 1990s. I think it would be otherwise... But
:26:56. > :27:00.if she says no, do you still argue that it is an option but when we are
:27:01. > :27:03.on a course of action which is to take the will of the people of
:27:04. > :27:08.Scotland as democratic and exercised through the Scottish Parliament...
:27:09. > :27:12.We are none the wiser. We are none the wiser of the content of the
:27:13. > :27:16.Brexit letter which is going to to drag Scotland out of the EU against
:27:17. > :27:21.our wishes, despite nine months of us trying to get some kind of
:27:22. > :27:23.information regarding Scotland's interests as part of that. That is
:27:24. > :27:24.the immediate issue facing interests as part of that. That is
:27:25. > :27:35.Scotland's. The lady at the back. interests as part of that. That is
:27:36. > :27:40.Fianna, if Scotland became an independent country, I would really
:27:41. > :27:44.like to see changes in the NHS, especially mental health. And do you
:27:45. > :27:47.see another independence referendum as an opportunity to change our
:27:48. > :27:54.country, a positive opportunity? Yes. And here? I would like to put
:27:55. > :27:57.the question, given the SNP's whole premise for this second referendum
:27:58. > :28:01.would be to retain Scotland's position within the European Union,
:28:02. > :28:07.the party itself is now rolling back from the position of suggesting that
:28:08. > :28:12.the DEC or the FTA could be a alternative. So you're undermining
:28:13. > :28:16.your own case. A country like Norway for instance is in the European free
:28:17. > :28:20.trade Association, and through that, the European economy area, which
:28:21. > :28:28.allows it to be in the single market but not in the union. I just want to
:28:29. > :28:33.bring Fiona Hyslop in on that very point, are you watering down the
:28:34. > :28:41.need for full EU membership? No, we're not. What we are proposing is
:28:42. > :28:44.to have a system, as part of a compromises, by which Scotland could
:28:45. > :28:48.remain as part of the single market, even if the rest of the UK left.
:28:49. > :28:53.That is part of a compromises deal, what we wanted. Theresa May is not
:28:54. > :28:57.engaging with that, so therefore so that we can pursue the interests on
:28:58. > :29:00.the social and democratic and economic side, we now have to have
:29:01. > :29:04.the choice to be able to make sure we can have some options for a
:29:05. > :29:07.different path. We will not know where we're going to be by the time
:29:08. > :29:15.we get to Brexit, never mind the transition. Adam Tomkins? I just
:29:16. > :29:19.want to come back on something she said. She said twice that the Prime
:29:20. > :29:22.Minister was standing in the way of the majority of Scottish opinion.
:29:23. > :29:26.She is not, the Prime Minister is standing up for the majority of
:29:27. > :29:29.Scottish opinion. There is a clear majority in Scottish opinion against
:29:30. > :29:33.having a second independence referendum. And that's what the
:29:34. > :29:36.Prime Minister is standing up for. The government which is standing in
:29:37. > :29:39.the way of Scottish majority opinion at the moment is the SNP government
:29:40. > :29:45.which Fiona Hyslop represents. And on the business of the relationship
:29:46. > :29:48.that Scotland, an independent Scotland might have with the
:29:49. > :29:56.European Union, what is your take on that? Alex Salmond, the former
:29:57. > :30:00.leader of the SNP, said I think only this morning, and he's the foreign
:30:01. > :30:02.affairs spokesman for the SNP, that an independent Scotland would not be
:30:03. > :30:07.seeking full membership of the European Union, so he has been
:30:08. > :30:13.perfectly clear since the morning of the 24th of June within hours of the
:30:14. > :30:16.EU referendum result becoming clear, that this is a First Minister,
:30:17. > :30:24.Nicola Sturgeon, who is using Brexit as a proxy for a second independence
:30:25. > :30:28.referendum. On that, if we are already out of the European Union at
:30:29. > :30:32.the point when you hold another independence referendum, if that
:30:33. > :30:38.goes ahead, what then? Well, Adam Tomkins is clearly wrong about the
:30:39. > :30:43.proposals that he is putting forward. Didn't Alex Salmond say
:30:44. > :30:48.that? No, he didn't. He didn't say that. In terms of where we'll be,
:30:49. > :30:52.this is why, changes happening... Do you accept that the starting point
:30:53. > :30:55.might be that Scotland is already out of the European Union? Well, if
:30:56. > :31:00.we do nothing and just sit back and sit on our hands and let Scotland
:31:01. > :31:03.adrift for the next two years, we will definitely be out of the
:31:04. > :31:07.European Union. What we're proposing in terms of the referendum is an
:31:08. > :31:09.opportunity to make sure that Scotland can have a different path
:31:10. > :31:16.and a different type of relationship. Which might not be at
:31:17. > :31:18.the start, full EU membership? Talking to other European countries,
:31:19. > :31:25.they perfectly understand the situation we find ourselves in. Now,
:31:26. > :31:30.they all absolutely understand that we have to have the right to choose,
:31:31. > :31:36.because of what has happened. Am not asking about that. I'm asking if you
:31:37. > :31:39.accept that it is possible that if there is another independence
:31:40. > :31:43.referendum, that the UK including Scotland will already be out as a
:31:44. > :31:47.starting point? We won't know until that time. You accept it as a
:31:48. > :31:51.possibility but when we won't know until at least we have the Brexit
:31:52. > :31:58.terms of reference, which should be known... What is the latest point
:31:59. > :32:03.that you could have an independence referendum that would allow Scotland
:32:04. > :32:07.to stay in the European Union? The window we have, that has been set
:32:08. > :32:11.out by the First Minister, iss 2018, which Theresa May at Lancaster House
:32:12. > :32:13.said would be the time that we thought we would have the Brexit
:32:14. > :32:16.said would be the time that we terms of reference. As confirmed by
:32:17. > :32:22.David Davis. And more importantly, Michel Barnier, the European lead
:32:23. > :32:26.negotiator, has also said that. Every other country by the way we'll
:32:27. > :32:29.get to decide weather this is a good deal or bad deal, apart from
:32:30. > :32:33.Scotland. So we have a window between the automata in the 18 and
:32:34. > :32:40.the spring of 2019. According to Theresa May's own timetable, that is
:32:41. > :32:46.the point that the UK will be out. So if it is after spring 2019, after
:32:47. > :32:51.the end of May... That is the risk that we have, if we do nothing and
:32:52. > :32:57.drift along for three years, Scotland's future will be decided
:32:58. > :33:00.for us by a Conservative hard Brexiteer government, which actually
:33:01. > :33:05.only has one MP out of 59 in Scotland. A few more thoughts from
:33:06. > :33:16.our audience. Then we need to move on.
:33:17. > :33:21.Could we not wait about 20 or 30 years to see the consequences
:33:22. > :33:27.Could we not wait about 20 or 30 Brexit? And the gentleman in the
:33:28. > :33:36.front row. I'm sick of hearing that Scotland voted to stay in. Fiona
:33:37. > :33:41.Hyslop said there, 62% said it. The vote was not a Scottish vote, it was
:33:42. > :33:46.a United Kingdom vote, and the majority of people in Scotland voted
:33:47. > :33:50.in 2014 to stay in the United Kingdom. The only reason is a
:33:51. > :34:04.logistic thing, if they counted all the votes in London or in Belfast in
:34:05. > :34:09.one place, they would not have known and they would not have voted in the
:34:10. > :34:16.same way. You just mentioned democracy three times. Let her
:34:17. > :34:18.respond to the point. Think that's why, it is not just Scotland which
:34:19. > :34:22.respond to the point. Think that's has concerns as to why there has
:34:23. > :34:24.been so little engagement from the United Kingdom government over the
:34:25. > :34:27.been so little engagement from the last nine months. The Welsh also are
:34:28. > :34:33.making that point, and they voted to leave. So there were different
:34:34. > :34:40.views. You have had your say, thank you very much. The gentleman,
:34:41. > :34:44.waiting for 20 or 30 years, I know a life expecting the is good, but I'm
:34:45. > :34:48.not sure you and I will be around to see that! One quick follow-up with
:34:49. > :34:52.you, Adam Tomkins, it is reported that the Prime Minister is putting
:34:53. > :34:59.the United Kingdom before she triggers Article 50 - should she
:35:00. > :35:03.come to Scotland and sit down with the First Minister and try and work
:35:04. > :35:05.this out? There is absolutely no reason why the Prime Minister and
:35:06. > :35:09.the First Minister should not meet and discuss a number of issues. I
:35:10. > :35:12.the First Minister should not meet want Scotland and that means
:35:13. > :35:15.including the Scottish Government to be at the heart of Brexit
:35:16. > :35:16.negotiations because I think it is important we get the right Brexit
:35:17. > :35:40.deal for the whole of the UK. I do not want his second
:35:41. > :35:44.independence referendum at all. I think the SNP should be held to the
:35:45. > :35:49.commitment that it was a once in a generation referendum. I'm not going
:35:50. > :35:54.to get into the detail about the timetable. The question is the
:35:55. > :35:58.principle of the. That is the same as it was in 2012, which is that it
:35:59. > :36:01.would be unfair to ask the people of Scotland weather they wanted to be
:36:02. > :36:05.in an independent state weather they wanted to remain the United Kingdom
:36:06. > :36:08.while the United Kingdom's relationship with the rest of the
:36:09. > :36:14.United Kingdom is unclear, and while it is manifestly unclear at the
:36:15. > :36:16.moment what an independent Scotland's relationship with the
:36:17. > :36:22.European Union would be. We need to move on. We will leave detailed
:36:23. > :36:26.questions on the merits and otherwise of independence for a
:36:27. > :36:40.future debate. Another question now...
:36:41. > :36:48.What advantage do you think we would have on leaving the EU? You were on
:36:49. > :36:57.The Remain side, so how can you now argue for leave? I can do that
:36:58. > :37:00.because I'm a Democrat. I lost the EU referendum, I wanted the United
:37:01. > :37:04.Kingdom to remain in the European Union and most of my MSP colleagues
:37:05. > :37:31.in all parties wanted the United Kingdom to remain.
:37:32. > :37:39.In answer to your question, the first thing that the Prime Minister
:37:40. > :37:41.has said is that we want the freest access to the European single
:37:42. > :37:59.market. We want the greatest support trade deal.
:38:00. > :38:04.Membership of the European Union does not allow you to have your own
:38:05. > :38:10.arrangements with countries in the rest of the world. I believe, as I
:38:11. > :38:14.think Fiona does as well, and we all do, that Brexit entails both
:38:15. > :38:18.opportunities and risks. The task that lies ahead of us, whether we
:38:19. > :38:22.are nationalist or unionist, whatever side, is to try and pull
:38:23. > :38:25.together not to try to pull the country apart, to secure the best
:38:26. > :38:29.possible Brexit deal for the whole of the UK, including Scotland. That
:38:30. > :38:37.means maximise the opportunities and minimising the risk.
:38:38. > :38:44.One of the opportunity Brexit gives is to be able to negotiate
:38:45. > :38:49.free-trade agreements with the rest of the world, which you cannot do as
:38:50. > :38:55.a member of the European Union. White Ayew so pessimistic that the
:38:56. > :39:05.prospect of the UK, including Scotland? The single market we
:39:06. > :39:11.support of, that single market membership is so important for
:39:12. > :39:17.Scotland Conservatives. You saw the figures for Scottish food and drink
:39:18. > :39:22.in terms of a 22% increase just last year in the growth of exports. 70%
:39:23. > :39:26.of Scotland's food goes to Europe. In terms of continuing that
:39:27. > :39:32.relationship with the single market is vital. We will still sell to the
:39:33. > :39:35.EU whether we are in the single market or not? Every country in the
:39:36. > :39:41.well can have access to the single market, but they had to pay for it.
:39:42. > :39:45.The issue is how much and the number might be on the back of a bus, are
:39:46. > :39:50.called on the figures being banded about by the league campaign. There
:39:51. > :39:54.is a gentleman over here talking about the constitutional fight
:39:55. > :39:58.Theresa May might be having with the European Union. If she fights and
:39:59. > :40:03.treat them in terms of how she has treated us, she will not get a good
:40:04. > :40:07.deal. One of the issues we have got, if you listen to, as I have, to be
:40:08. > :40:12.European countries and their responses, they are clear, they
:40:13. > :40:19.don't think and want the UK to have a better deal in relation to the
:40:20. > :40:23.European market outside the European Union than everybody else. So it
:40:24. > :40:31.will be worse than the deal we have now. It is about jobs. Out of the
:40:32. > :40:38.single market, we will lose 5% of our GDP and we're not even out yet.
:40:39. > :40:41.Let me bring in some voices from the audience. We will come to the front
:40:42. > :40:47.row in a moment, but first of all the gentlemen at the back? Can I ask
:40:48. > :40:51.Fiona Hyslop why is it Right Brussels can dictate his Scotland
:40:52. > :40:56.should independence happen, who we can negotiate trade deals with
:40:57. > :41:05.globally? What is your position? We should be able to freely trade with
:41:06. > :41:11.who we wish, it is a UK referendum. Lady on the front row in the middle
:41:12. > :41:16.here. Fiona you highlight the growth of the food and drink industry in
:41:17. > :41:20.Scotland, I run the food business and I have started to export. But my
:41:21. > :41:24.business will fail with the rise of business rates set by the Scottish
:41:25. > :41:33.Parliament, so I will be able to export regardless. I think the whole
:41:34. > :41:44.Brexit thing is a sham. It was sold on a lie. And the whole thing is,
:41:45. > :41:49.the whole point is it is part of a Tory power grab for agriculture and
:41:50. > :41:55.fisheries in Scotland. You can shake your head all you want, there is a
:41:56. > :41:59.reason Theresa May is... V pick-up on this, I want to pick up on that
:42:00. > :42:08.issue. It was argued by the league campaign. I was in the remain
:42:09. > :42:12.campaign. I oppose the league campaign. Absolutely, but you are
:42:13. > :42:18.supporting the United Kingdom leaving the European Union? I am
:42:19. > :42:19.supporting the democratic verdict of the United Kingdom in a lawful
:42:20. > :42:26.referendum. The question is, in the the United Kingdom in a lawful
:42:27. > :42:28.leave campaign they said if the UK left the European Union, the
:42:29. > :42:34.Scottish Parliament would become much more powerful, taking control
:42:35. > :42:41.of agriculture, fisheries and other areas. Will it happen? Yes, it is an
:42:42. > :42:47.inevitable consequence of Brexit. It is an inevitable consequence of
:42:48. > :42:57.Brexit. The Scottish Parliament will become even more powerful than it
:42:58. > :43:03.is. Some of the powers will be repatriated to the United Kingdom
:43:04. > :43:10.from Brussels and vented the default administrations and not centralised
:43:11. > :43:20.in Westminster. Since the Scottish Parliament was reconvened in 1999,
:43:21. > :43:23.agriculture... We have legislation in Scotland. Are you saying when
:43:24. > :43:28.those powers come back from Brussels, they will go directly to
:43:29. > :43:33.the Scottish Parliament? Can you tell me now the Westminster
:43:34. > :43:36.government will never legislate on agriculture and fisheries? Can you
:43:37. > :43:42.tell me they will never legislate? What I can say, a number of the
:43:43. > :43:48.powers coming back from Brussels will come to Holyrood. But you don't
:43:49. > :43:55.want any of these powers to be exercised by Holyrood, you want them
:43:56. > :43:59.to stay in Brussels. We have a UK Government deciding and debating the
:44:00. > :44:03.Scotland whether it comes to agriculture fisheries. Fisheries was
:44:04. > :44:11.described as expendable by the UK in negotiations. You are talking about
:44:12. > :44:16.the 70s. Some of the grievances are more recent. The idea of the UK
:44:17. > :44:20.Government will go into Brexit negotiations and they only started
:44:21. > :44:24.when the letter goes in next Wednesday. They haven't even
:44:25. > :44:27.started. My concern will be what will be UK Government be able to
:44:28. > :44:32.sacrifice to get the deal would be other EU countries that don't want
:44:33. > :44:36.them to get a better deal than they currently have? That is the worry we
:44:37. > :44:39.have for devolved competencies we have already and we have to protect
:44:40. > :45:02.them. We need to be part of the process. When powers are re-pre- --
:45:03. > :45:06.repatriated to the UK that a number of those powers will come to us as
:45:07. > :45:13.MSPs in Holyrood and come to the Scottish Government. Some of them
:45:14. > :45:18.will be retained at the UK level. There are number of things that are
:45:19. > :45:26.currently reserved under the Scotland act. What is devolves will
:45:27. > :45:33.come to us and what is reserved will go to Westminster. The common
:45:34. > :45:38.agricultural policy... Will there be a UK replacement for it? What it
:45:39. > :45:46.agricultural policy... Will there be does is it deals with agricultural
:45:47. > :45:51.holdings, or so products safety, consumer protection, labelling, a
:45:52. > :45:54.range of issues. Some of them under the Scotland act are reserved to
:45:55. > :46:03.Westminster and some of them are devolved. There will be no repeat
:46:04. > :46:06.reservation from powers from Holyrood to Westminster. No powers
:46:07. > :46:11.will be taken away from the Scottish Parliament as a result of Brexit and
:46:12. > :46:14.it is an inevitable consequence of Brexit that the Scottish Parliament
:46:15. > :46:22.will become even more powerful than it currently is. Let me go to
:46:23. > :46:29.another question from Dean Brown. What impact will Brexit have on
:46:30. > :46:37.European Union nationals working in the UK? We currently have 181,000 EU
:46:38. > :46:41.nationals living and working in Scotland and it is not just the jobs
:46:42. > :46:45.they provide, it is the support that they have the Scottish businesses
:46:46. > :46:50.that depend on EU nationals working there. If there is no guarantee,
:46:51. > :46:56.which there is not as of now, as of Monday the Westminster government
:46:57. > :47:01.and the Conservative government chose to vote against giving EU
:47:02. > :47:06.nationals, who are human beings in our society, any guarantees at all.
:47:07. > :47:09.How can they do that when they don't have similar guarantees the UK
:47:10. > :47:17.nationals in EU countries? One of the things I think we agree in the
:47:18. > :47:21.negotiation, if you are negotiating with 27 other countries, having a
:47:22. > :47:26.bit of decency and respect for their nationals is the starting point. We
:47:27. > :47:35.cannot have them used as bargaining chips. If she thinks that is to our
:47:36. > :47:38.advantage, she is mistaken. More importantly, that is not the kind of
:47:39. > :47:44.country I want to be part of, treating people in this inhumane
:47:45. > :47:47.way. We told it will be one of them first areas to be dealt with once
:47:48. > :47:53.discussions get under way, but was it a mistake for the Prime Minister
:47:54. > :47:56.not to say, those here now will be entitled to say? What she has
:47:57. > :48:00.clearly said is that she wants to be able to make that guarantee is as
:48:01. > :48:03.soon as possible in the process of negotiations but it is not
:48:04. > :48:08.appropriate until the guarantee is reciprocated by the EU with regard
:48:09. > :48:16.to the 2 million British people living elsewhere. Fiona and I
:48:17. > :48:20.disagree profoundly about all sorts of things in politics but we don't
:48:21. > :48:25.disagree much on this question. My view is clearly and a few of my
:48:26. > :48:29.party is clearly that immigration enriches our nation in Scotland, not
:48:30. > :48:34.only in terms of the labour market but in terms of culture, the area
:48:35. > :48:39.that Fyona is responsible for in the Scottish Government, my wife is an
:48:40. > :48:45.immigrant, my agent in the election campaign last year was an immigrant,
:48:46. > :48:48.many of the students I have taught, I taught European law in the
:48:49. > :48:52.University of Glasgow and elsewhere, many of them and indeed many of my
:48:53. > :48:57.colleagues on campus were from Europe and elsewhere. I want the
:48:58. > :49:01.Prime Minister to be able to make that guarantee as soon as she
:49:02. > :49:08.possibly can but we can't do it unilaterally, it has to be
:49:09. > :49:13.reciprocal. The hold-up is not in rotation hands, it is the EU who for
:49:14. > :49:20.reasons of their own are refusing to negotiate until Article 50 goes
:49:21. > :49:25.ahead. -- in our our own hands. That is the procedure, isn't it? It is
:49:26. > :49:29.unfortunate that the procedure has stopped those guarantees being
:49:30. > :49:33.given. It is not just about the EU nationals that they hear that we
:49:34. > :49:37.want to stay, it is future EU nationals that are so vital to our
:49:38. > :49:44.health service and universities, what happens to future EU nationals.
:49:45. > :49:47.Particularly if you are an EU national or you have personal
:49:48. > :49:53.experience of a family member or a relative in that position... The
:49:54. > :49:58.lady in the front row with the black and white top first of all. My
:49:59. > :50:09.husband is French and has lived here the 27 years, we have been married
:50:10. > :50:13.for eight years. I am British. He would have to go, I would want to
:50:14. > :50:22.go. We couldn't go to Europe. Where do you suggest we go? How do you
:50:23. > :50:32.feel about it? It is causing real problems health-wise because it is a
:50:33. > :50:38.big, big decision. We can't go to Europe because he is French, I am
:50:39. > :50:45.British. We could go to Cape Verde, cell our house. Nobody is saying you
:50:46. > :50:47.and your husband can't stay in the UK. What the Prime Minister is
:50:48. > :50:53.saying is that people like you husband and yourself, we want to be
:50:54. > :50:59.able to give the guarantee as soon as is. Then give the guarantee. It
:51:00. > :51:02.needs to be reciprocated, we have to million British people living
:51:03. > :51:13.elsewhere in the EU. The lady in the back row. If you wanted to give the
:51:14. > :51:18.guarantee, why don't you give it? As an EU citizen, to me that means you
:51:19. > :51:22.are still open to a scenario where that scenario is not given because
:51:23. > :51:27.of failure in negotiations, because of walking out without a deal, which
:51:28. > :51:34.is part of the narrative. What is your personal experience? I am
:51:35. > :51:37.Bulgarian. A lot of the narrative has been very negative, very
:51:38. > :51:42.distressing. I am a teacher at university, there are a lot of
:51:43. > :51:48.international students, a lot of worry, we have been called Barlow --
:51:49. > :51:53.bargaining chips, citizens of nowhere as part of the conference in
:51:54. > :52:02.the autumn. It is very traumatic. But your hand up if you are from an
:52:03. > :52:06.EU background. -- put your hand. In Italy there are over 100 British
:52:07. > :52:10.lecturers who have not received equal treatment despite six
:52:11. > :52:15.judgments of the European Court of Justice. I have had their salaries
:52:16. > :52:20.recently cut by 50% and they are denied access to judicial review.
:52:21. > :52:27.Mrs May is surely right in demanding a reciprocal agreement.
:52:28. > :52:34.Let's come back to our panel and Fiona Hyslop. This is a central part
:52:35. > :52:38.of the type of country we want to be, I think, our respect for EU
:52:39. > :52:42.nationals etc. There is also an economic factor. If you want to be
:52:43. > :52:48.the best at innovation and research, we rely on our universitiesmm
:52:49. > :52:50.already be seeing the concerns that they have regarding collaborative
:52:51. > :52:55.contracts internationally. They might not be getting the same
:52:56. > :52:57.research contracts. The director of the Edinburgh international festival
:52:58. > :53:01.is Irish and has expressed his concerns only this week in a
:53:02. > :53:06.newspaper article. It is also about the jobs here. There are many
:53:07. > :53:09.companies that are out with the EU that have based themselves in
:53:10. > :53:13.Scotland precisely because we have access and are members of the single
:53:14. > :53:17.market. So what do you think is going to happen, they won't be
:53:18. > :53:21.allowed to stay? I was about to come onto the second part, EU nationals
:53:22. > :53:27.want to come? Will they want to become and be part of our country? I
:53:28. > :53:29.would want them to be. We are not sending out the right signal
:53:30. > :53:33.whatsoever. Never mind the disadvantages in two years' time,
:53:34. > :53:39.when the UK leaves. It is already having a negative impact on
:53:40. > :53:43.Scotland. We want to be one of the world's beacons for free-trade, and
:53:44. > :53:48.that includes trade in goods and services on campus and in cultural
:53:49. > :53:52.things. If those are the signals that you're sending out, there is no
:53:53. > :53:56.reason at all to believe, unless you just want to do Britain damn, that
:53:57. > :54:01.Britain will be anything other than a welcoming place for migrants,
:54:02. > :54:06.wherever you come from. It does not feel so just now. There is no need
:54:07. > :54:09.for this to be a difficult point of the negotiations. There will be some
:54:10. > :54:13.really difficult things to negotiate but this does not need to be one of
:54:14. > :54:20.them. We are into the final minute or so. I wanted to ask you a quick
:54:21. > :54:22.follow-up, Leave campaign, Michael Gove, who you supported for the
:54:23. > :54:30.leadership of the Conservative Party, he also said that post-wrecks
:54:31. > :54:35.act, Holyrood could have some say over immigration - will that happen?
:54:36. > :54:38.I don't know whether that will happen or not. -- post-Brexit. But
:54:39. > :54:41.what absolutely will happen is that the powers and shape and structure
:54:42. > :54:45.what absolutely will happen is that of the Holyrood parliament will grow
:54:46. > :54:48.as a result of Brexit. There will be powers repatriated from Brussels
:54:49. > :54:52.which will come to Edinburgh and Holyrood. That is a given. Fiona
:54:53. > :54:58.Hyslop, isn't it the case that the UK would be better placed to get the
:54:59. > :55:01.best possible deal if people like you and the Scottish Government and
:55:02. > :55:04.the other devolved administrations were working with the UK Government
:55:05. > :55:09.and being part of the same team? Absolutely. Well, we have been and
:55:10. > :55:12.we have been attending the joint ministerial committees. We expect
:55:13. > :55:15.and we must be part of negotiations going forward. To many of our
:55:16. > :55:19.industries depend on the European market and we need to make sure that
:55:20. > :55:23.we are part of that trainer and I expect support from the
:55:24. > :55:33.Conservatives in Scotland to remain as part of that negotiating
:55:34. > :55:36.mechanism. Thank you both very much indeed. We're going to have to leave
:55:37. > :55:41.it there. I would have loved to get more audience members in, but we are
:55:42. > :55:44.at the end of our time. Let me thank those of you who are in the
:55:45. > :55:47.audience, especially for those who asked questions. My thanks to Brexit
:55:48. > :55:51.from the Scottish Government and Adam Tom kins from the Scottish
:55:52. > :55:52.Conservative Party. And of course, thanks to you for following our
:55:53. > :56:03.debate. Let's return to our political
:56:04. > :56:15.editor Brian Taylor, There is a phrase in politics,
:56:16. > :56:20.parity of esteem. Tonight, we saw parity of uncertainty. I
:56:21. > :56:26.characterised the referendum 2014 is one of doubt and reassurance, doubts
:56:27. > :56:30.from the pro-European side, leaving it to the others to offer
:56:31. > :56:33.reassurance. This time it strikes me there is bounty of uncertainty,
:56:34. > :56:38.there is doubt all around us to what Brexit means. Doubts offered by
:56:39. > :56:41.those supporting the union, as to when any referendum might take
:56:42. > :56:45.place, the terms of Scotland's potential membership of the European
:56:46. > :56:49.Union, doubt upon doubt upon doubt. In those circumstances, you get the
:56:50. > :56:52.Prime Minister saying, there is already doubt and uncertainty as a
:56:53. > :56:59.consequence of Brexit, better to leave alone until that is resolved.
:57:00. > :57:02.You get Nicola Sturgeon offering exactly the counterpoint, saying
:57:03. > :57:04.there is doubt and uncertainty, and that independence would help resolve
:57:05. > :57:09.that. So you have competing solutions being offered.
:57:10. > :57:12.that. So you have competing briefly, tomorrow, MSPs back at
:57:13. > :57:17.Holyrood for that vote? Yes, second day of debate. The greens will vote
:57:18. > :57:20.with the SNP come there will be a majority. They will demand that
:57:21. > :57:29.referendum, the transfer of those powers from the Prime Minister. The
:57:30. > :57:33.Prime Minister will say no. Let's have a look at the weather. Good
:57:34. > :57:37.evening. Some fairly disruptive wintry weather around this morning,
:57:38. > :57:40.but equally, some rather pretty pictures coming in from our Weather
:57:41. > :57:44.Watchers. Not so pretty if you are stuck in it, though. Through the
:57:45. > :57:49.afternoon, the showers gave way to some sunshine. Some of them did hold
:57:50. > :57:52.on across the far north. Tonight, cold and frosty, but that's not the
:57:53. > :57:56.whole story. Low pressure pushing in across parts of England, which could
:57:57. > :58:01.cause some issues across southern Scotland tomorrow. And this. In the
:58:02. > :58:08.far north giving wet weather overnight. In between, largely dry,
:58:09. > :58:13.hold, frosty, icy. Across parts of northern Aberdeenshire, across the
:58:14. > :58:17.Northern Isles, wintry showers continuing. Elsewhere, largely dry
:58:18. > :58:25.but it will be cold of temperatures in the countryside down to -6.
:58:26. > :58:34.Tomorrow morning, in the south, that low pressure just getting into parts
:58:35. > :58:37.of Dumfriesshire. From the central lowlands northwards, it's largely
:58:38. > :58:43.dry with any showers tending to fade away. Across the south, by
:58:44. > :58:49.mid-afternoon, still fairly cloudy. Still one or two wintry showers over
:58:50. > :58:53.the host of and quite cold. On the north-easterly, that will feel quite
:58:54. > :58:59.bitter. Up to Perthshire, some showers a easing away after being
:59:00. > :59:04.quite heavily during the course of the morning of heading through the
:59:05. > :59:10.rest of the afternoon into the evening, we start to see a change.
:59:11. > :59:14.The wet weather tends to clear away. This is Thursday, largely dry and
:59:15. > :59:19.fine and bright, with some sunshine. Still a few shows perhaps, though,
:59:20. > :59:23.for Shetland. And this is why we are having the change. A big area of
:59:24. > :59:35.high pressure from the Azores spreading all the way up to us here
:59:36. > :59:39.in Scotland. That's Reporting Scotland. I will be live from
:59:40. > :59:43.Holyrood tomorrow night for analysis of that Scottish vote on the
:59:44. > :59:50.independence referendum. Join me for that if you can. Good evening.
:59:51. > :59:52.The 24-year-old man has been charged with murder.
:59:53. > :59:55.You made sure an innocent man is charged!