:00:10. > :00:10.Good evening on Election Reporting Scotland.
:00:11. > :00:12.We are into the last week of campaigning,
:00:13. > :00:15.as Nicola Sturgeon and Tim Farron answer questions from
:00:16. > :00:49.And the row over policing following the London attacks.
:00:50. > :00:51.The final week of the election and, from nowhere, it
:00:52. > :00:55.Following the weekend terror attack in London,
:00:56. > :00:58.arguments about security dominated today on the campaign trail.
:00:59. > :01:00.The subject also featured in a special election edition
:01:01. > :01:02.of Question Time from Edinburgh tonight, featuring SNP
:01:03. > :01:09.leader Nicola Surgeon and the Lib Dem's Tim Farron.
:01:10. > :01:11.Our political reporter Andrew Kerr watched the debate
:01:12. > :01:20.and it started, Andrew, with the issue of terrorism and security?
:01:21. > :01:30.That is correct. It is the issue everyone is wanting to talk about
:01:31. > :01:38.today. It dominated the campaign today. The Labour Party leader said
:01:39. > :01:48.that Theresa May should resign over police cuts. And at the leaders
:01:49. > :01:53.special, Tim Farron and so the question when it came up regarding
:01:54. > :02:01.the extra powers the police should maybe be given. He had a different
:02:02. > :02:08.response. What they want more than anything is the resources to catch
:02:09. > :02:14.people. But what do the terrorists want others to do? They want us to
:02:15. > :02:20.turn in on herself and divide ourselves. They want us to give up
:02:21. > :02:22.our freedoms and we will not do the otherwise the bill have one.
:02:23. > :02:24.And Nicola Surgeon again faced questions from an audience
:02:25. > :02:39.The special took place in Edinburgh. Security was uppermost in everyone's
:02:40. > :02:46.moaned but she did not want a knee jerk response that undermine the
:02:47. > :02:52.liberties and freedoms we currently have. On an independence referendum,
:02:53. > :02:58.she was criticised for pushing it by some people. And on her track
:02:59. > :03:05.record, very critical questions from the audience, particularly around
:03:06. > :03:11.the question of education. When we come to contest the next Scottish
:03:12. > :03:18.parliament questions, if I am asking people to vote for me again, I
:03:19. > :03:23.expect to be judged on that. It is legitimate to be asked that
:03:24. > :03:30.question. But this week, we are not choosing a Scottish Government, we
:03:31. > :03:33.are choosing MPs to go to Westminster, and that will determine
:03:34. > :03:35.whether the funding for schools and education goes up or down.
:03:36. > :03:37.And one other development tonight, more confusion for Labour,
:03:38. > :03:43.this time involving the party in Wales?
:03:44. > :03:51.The Welsh Labour Party did not appear to be singing from the same
:03:52. > :03:56.song sheet. It is all about the Barnett formula, the formulae used
:03:57. > :04:03.to distribute money to Scotland, Ireland and whales. They want to
:04:04. > :04:08.move to evenly spaced formula and the Labour leader in whales says
:04:09. > :04:18.that there should be a different formula. We put that to the Scottish
:04:19. > :04:22.Labour Party. They said that our manifesto costings are based on the
:04:23. > :04:31.Barnett formula and we will not scrap it. The Labour Party singing
:04:32. > :04:38.from a different song sheet in different parts of the United
:04:39. > :04:44.Kingdom. Last week, Jeremy Corbyn was seeing very different things
:04:45. > :04:47.about a second independence referendum than what the leadership
:04:48. > :04:52.of the Scottish Labour Party were seeing. More too, that I am sure.
:04:53. > :04:54.More from the election campaign coming up, but first,
:04:55. > :04:58.the rest of the day's news from Sally McNair.
:04:59. > :05:01.People in the island communities of Barra and Vatersay came together
:05:02. > :05:04.today for the funeral of teenager Eilidh MacLeod, one of the victims
:05:05. > :05:08.Friends and family heard how Eilidh packed "a lot of life"
:05:09. > :05:16.into her 14 years. Cameron Buttle reports.
:05:17. > :05:23.A small honour guard walked her to the hearse that
:05:24. > :05:25.took her home, for one last night, her family.
:05:26. > :05:27.The McLeod family live in the shadow of the Church
:05:28. > :05:32.The family gently carried up the hill.
:05:33. > :05:34.The piper played a well-known Gaelic song, a song that
:05:35. > :05:45.praises the beauty of a fair-haired Barra girl.
:05:46. > :05:52.Outside, mourners perched wherever they could.
:05:53. > :05:54.Added extra ferries and flights to bring people here.
:05:55. > :05:56.Police estimate that around 1,000 came to pay their respects.
:05:57. > :06:02.Inside, Eilidh's great-uncle paid tribute.
:06:03. > :06:04.In contrast to the hate that took her life,
:06:05. > :06:06.Eilidh's life was, and now stands as,
:06:07. > :06:08.a testament forever to the world of love, of innocence,
:06:09. > :06:22.goodness, generosity, kindness and faith.
:06:23. > :06:25.The priest who led the service said it was important to
:06:26. > :06:27.remember that Eilidh was a happy girl who
:06:28. > :06:29.had 14 happy years, and the last few were the happiest
:06:30. > :06:37.Eilidh was a bubbly, fun-loving girl, a talented girl.
:06:38. > :06:50.When I met her, I sensed a positive, loving, happy girl.
:06:51. > :06:53.People were there to remember the tragic part of the decade that
:06:54. > :06:56.were cut away from a life, many felt, and so that the family could
:06:57. > :06:59.see that fellow feeling that everybody had, not just in the
:07:00. > :07:11.island, but in other islands and the mainland.
:07:12. > :07:14.As the cortege wound round the island, Eilidh was taken over
:07:15. > :07:17.the causeway to Vatersay, where she moved to back years ago.
:07:18. > :07:26.It is perhaps best ended with the words her family.
:07:27. > :07:28.A Fatal Accident Inquiry into the death of a 12-year-old girl
:07:29. > :07:31.who died when a school wall collapsed, has begun in Edinburgh.
:07:32. > :07:33.Keane Wallis-Bennett suffered fatal crushing injuries in April 2014,
:07:34. > :07:38.when a wall in the PE changing room at Liberton High fell on top of her.
:07:39. > :07:40.The judge in the fraud trial of the former owner
:07:41. > :07:42.of Rangers Football Club, Craig Whyte, has urged the jury
:07:43. > :07:44.to "keep cool heads" and take a long, hard look
:07:45. > :07:49.Mr Whyte is accused of acquiring Rangers by fraud in May 2011.
:07:50. > :07:56.He denies the charge and a second charge under the Companies Act.
:07:57. > :07:59.Now back to Stephen. Thanks, Sally.
:08:00. > :08:02.Rolling coverage of the London terror attacks led to last-minute
:08:03. > :08:07.Sunday Politics Scotland was supposed to be showing the
:08:08. > :08:09.last of its leader interviews with Willie Rennie from
:08:10. > :08:12.Instead, we are screening the interview which Gordon
:08:13. > :08:31.Jeremy Corbyn has called for the Prime Minister to resign. He says
:08:32. > :08:38.she has presided over cuts in policing. What do you make of that?
:08:39. > :08:44.I think it is a rather odd point in the middle of an election campaign
:08:45. > :08:49.deciding who will be the new Prime Minister. But the central point is
:08:50. > :08:54.fear. She was Home Secretary for seven years and know she is trying
:08:55. > :09:00.to find solutions to a problem she has presided over. The cuts in
:09:01. > :09:06.policing, specifically recently, have been a particular problem,
:09:07. > :09:16.especially when the terror threat has increased. But we also have
:09:17. > :09:20.other issues. We are also pursuing mass surveillance. It is costly and
:09:21. > :09:25.ineffective and does not target based on evidence and that is why I
:09:26. > :09:31.think there is a valid case that Jeremy Corbyn has made, although
:09:32. > :09:37.rather odd that he has needed during a general election campaign. She
:09:38. > :09:45.should go? I would expect the voters to make that decision. You mentioned
:09:46. > :09:51.mass surveillance. Even the speech that was made yesterday Theresa May
:09:52. > :09:55.by, are you preparing to support some sort of crackdown which could
:09:56. > :10:01.be announced over the next couple of days, perhaps even before the
:10:02. > :10:07.election. Or are you more concerned about civil liberties? We do need to
:10:08. > :10:15.have a bit of caution at this time. People are very angry and frustrated
:10:16. > :10:18.and fearful. We need to make sure we protect the cherished Civil
:10:19. > :10:23.Liberties we all want to keep. Seeing enough is enough is tough,
:10:24. > :10:28.but what does it actually mean? A lot of people up and down the
:10:29. > :10:34.country will think, she is right, not enough has been done. If it
:10:35. > :10:38.means bringing in new rules about detaining suspects for longer by the
:10:39. > :10:46.police than they can do at the moment. We need to be that on
:10:47. > :10:52.evidence. But people will say, you can now have evidence. Look at what
:10:53. > :10:58.happened in Manchester. What you need to have is the solid evidence
:10:59. > :11:08.that it actually works. This would not last naturally build long-term
:11:09. > :11:16.solutions. And it could cost something like ?1 billion. I would
:11:17. > :11:21.rather ?1 billion was spent on keeping us safe rather than having a
:11:22. > :11:27.fast data stored on the Internet. I do not think that is necessarily the
:11:28. > :11:33.best way to go about it. We have to think about national security, but
:11:34. > :11:38.also about civil liberties. The general election, the Liberal
:11:39. > :11:43.Democrats are going to do very well. Across the United Kingdom, your
:11:44. > :11:48.claim was you wanted to become the main opposition Party. The manifesto
:11:49. > :11:55.starts off by assuming, perhaps wrongly, that Theresa May was going
:11:56. > :12:01.to do much better than she is doing and that the Labour Party would beat
:12:02. > :12:08.rubbish as an opposition. But it is just not happening at the moment.
:12:09. > :12:13.You are down at 8% in the opinion polls. Just look at Brexit. What
:12:14. > :12:24.type of opposition did Jeremy Corbyn provided. He voted with Theresa May
:12:25. > :12:32.an Nigel Farage. We will see what happens on Thursday. They accept
:12:33. > :12:40.politicians think that is only one opinion poll that matters, but to
:12:41. > :12:44.get the Liberal Democrats vote wrong between 8-10%, the opinion polls
:12:45. > :12:50.would have to be wrong than any opinion poll ever in world history.
:12:51. > :12:55.I guarantee that no matter how many Liberal Democrat MPs are elected,
:12:56. > :13:02.they will provide strong opposition. What I am suggesting is that it just
:13:03. > :13:07.is not working. I doubt if I have ever read a Party manifesto which
:13:08. > :13:11.gets so drawn in its opening paragraph that we are an election is
:13:12. > :13:16.going to go. You assumed the Conservative Party were going to win
:13:17. > :13:21.and that Jeremy Corbyn would be terrible. Neither of these things
:13:22. > :13:26.have happened. I can tell you it in the key seats in Scotland, we will
:13:27. > :13:34.do exceptionally well. You said you would be the main opposition to
:13:35. > :13:38.Theresa May. We will be a robust and effective opposition in the
:13:39. > :13:42.parliament. We will have more MPs. We will provide the challenge on
:13:43. > :13:50.Brexit, investment in public services and having available
:13:51. > :13:55.liberal approach to government. I would like is to be a force in the
:13:56. > :14:00.House of Commons. I would like that to be as big as possible, but that
:14:01. > :14:04.is up to the voting public. You have lost your unique selling point in
:14:05. > :14:10.this election. If you do not want the Conservative Party to get back,
:14:11. > :14:17.people will vote Labour. If your main issue is that you want to stay
:14:18. > :14:22.in Europe, it is an awful lot more likely that the Scottish National
:14:23. > :14:25.Party could have another independence referendum and keep the
:14:26. > :14:30.country in Europe than the Liberal Democrats winning the election and
:14:31. > :14:36.having another European referendum. We speak for the majority of people
:14:37. > :14:41.in this country who oppose a second referendum, who want to have the
:14:42. > :14:48.second Sea on Brexit, the opportunity to reject a bad deal,
:14:49. > :14:52.but investing in public services. But the original evidence that
:14:53. > :14:57.people want a second referendum on Europe. No matter what we think,
:14:58. > :15:02.when we see the final deal, the British people should have the final
:15:03. > :15:07.say. It should not be left to just who is in government. We need to
:15:08. > :15:14.British people to have the opportunity to reject a deal. I
:15:15. > :15:19.believe we will grow. I have been in many key seats when it is a simple
:15:20. > :15:22.choice between the Scottish National Party and the Liberal Democrats.
:15:23. > :15:28.Whether people agree with is not, they do not want a divisive second
:15:29. > :15:36.independence referendum. But we cannot have a referendum but we want
:15:37. > :15:47.another European Union referendum? We did have the white paper. All we
:15:48. > :15:57.had were slogans. Can they reduce something. This is Mr Carmichael,
:15:58. > :16:02.the Secretary of State for Scotland. He says of the white Paper, people
:16:03. > :16:06.will draw their own conclusions that the Scottish Pullman have sought to
:16:07. > :16:10.ignore the uncertainties over independence. We are expected to
:16:11. > :16:17.believe everything will be perfect after we leave the United Kingdom.
:16:18. > :16:24.We are told there will be all right on the night. You said about the
:16:25. > :16:31.independence White Paper that you said about the Brexit one. You said
:16:32. > :16:36.there was no detail. We rejected that three years ago. I think we
:16:37. > :16:42.have the opportunity to reject the detail when it is forthcoming on
:16:43. > :16:47.Brexit. We need to have the final say. We have no detail. The
:16:48. > :16:54.government did not expect to lose, so there was no detailed plans. The
:16:55. > :16:57.problem you have is that you are meant to be Liberal Democrats. The
:16:58. > :17:02.Scottish National Party have the mandate in the manifesto, the
:17:03. > :17:09.Scottish Parliament has voted to have another referendum. Your link
:17:10. > :17:14.is even harder than the Conservative Party. You see your MPs would vote
:17:15. > :17:21.against any section 30 order to have another referendum. That is
:17:22. > :17:28.anti-democratic. How can you claim the Scottish National Party have no
:17:29. > :17:31.manifesto? How can be anti-democratic for the Liberal
:17:32. > :17:39.Democrats to fall through the promise the manifesto. They won the
:17:40. > :17:46.election, unlike you. They did not win. They lost their majority. If
:17:47. > :17:51.that happened in the House of Commons, even Tony Blair did not
:17:52. > :17:56.have a majority in that sense. The Green Party said you would have to
:17:57. > :18:01.have 1 million signatures on a petition before you could have
:18:02. > :18:07.another referendum. I think that is why it is quite clear. Liberal
:18:08. > :18:15.Democrat should follow the manifesto commitment and reject any talk of
:18:16. > :18:19.the second independence referendum. The talk about Brexit, but any
:18:20. > :18:28.excuse coming along would be an excuse for the Scottish National
:18:29. > :18:42.Party. If you had something in your manifesto, you claim you the mandate
:18:43. > :18:51.to influence things. You could regret that down the road. That is
:18:52. > :18:55.the mandate that we were given in all the seats we won in the
:18:56. > :19:01.election. We give a commitment. That is what we are going to do. We will
:19:02. > :19:06.not go back on a warrant. It has been a depressing tough couple of
:19:07. > :19:14.days for everyone. We know that if Tim Farron wins this election,
:19:15. > :19:19.everyone can have a split to celebrate! When you win the next
:19:20. > :19:24.election, will you legalise cannabis in Scotland? We do not have the
:19:25. > :19:28.specific ports on cannabis. I will use my position to argue that an
:19:29. > :19:30.approach to deal with the drugs problem in this country, which is
:19:31. > :19:35.feeling at the moment. Now, Theresa May has been
:19:36. > :19:37.campaigning in Scotland today, with security issues central
:19:38. > :19:39.to the campaign. The Prime Minister has been
:19:40. > :19:41.defending her record on policing, after Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn
:19:42. > :20:02.called on her to resign I am articulating what is a deep
:20:03. > :20:06.anger over 20,000 police officers losing their jobs, firefighters
:20:07. > :20:10.losing their jobs, ambulance crews being unable to cope under pressure.
:20:11. > :20:16.We need to look at what she did this Home Secretary.
:20:17. > :20:22.We predicting overall police budgets in England and Wales and also
:20:23. > :20:27.ensuring that the police and security services have the powers
:20:28. > :20:31.they need to be able to deal with the terrorists. So, we have enhanced
:20:32. > :20:35.the powers available to them. Jeremy Corbin, by contrast, has boasted
:20:36. > :20:39.that he has opposed every piece of anti-terror legislation since he has
:20:40. > :20:40.been in Parliament. The Prime Minister speaking in Edinburgh
:20:41. > :20:41.today. Our nightly panel of
:20:42. > :20:42.pundits join me now. Tonight, Angela Haggerty,
:20:43. > :20:44.editor of the Common Space website, security expert
:20:45. > :20:46.Professor Peter Jackson from Glasgow University
:20:47. > :20:47.and Michael Blackley, the Political Editor
:20:48. > :21:04.of the Scottish Daily Mail. The terror attacks in three months,
:21:05. > :21:07.how big an issue is this likely to be for reporters on Thursday? I
:21:08. > :21:11.think it will be a bigger issue than it has ever been before. I do not
:21:12. > :21:14.remember an election where there has been this level of terror, even
:21:15. > :21:20.during the height of the troubles in Northern Ireland. This close to an
:21:21. > :21:24.election, this kind of intensity of terrorist atrocities, it is kind of
:21:25. > :21:29.unprecedented. I think, both parties are urging people to reflect on
:21:30. > :21:35.which party, both major parties in the UK, which party will keep you
:21:36. > :21:38.safe. This is going to be playing on people's minds when they cast their
:21:39. > :21:43.vote. Let's just look at the parties. March 2016, the SNP
:21:44. > :21:45.abstained from a vote on the so-called snoopers Charter, which
:21:46. > :21:48.Theresa May said at the time would give our law enforcement and
:21:49. > :21:53.intelligence agencies the powers they need to keep us safe. Is it
:21:54. > :21:58.time for the SNP to rethink their position on legislation like this?
:21:59. > :22:03.They SNP abstained, but there were also a lot of camping goods, civil
:22:04. > :22:06.liberties groups, warning that this snoopers charter was going to be a
:22:07. > :22:10.massive clamp-down on civil liberties. -- a lot of campaign
:22:11. > :22:15.groups. Joanna Cherry did quite a lot of work on this at Westminster
:22:16. > :22:19.and warned, actually, about the authoritarianism of that bill and
:22:20. > :22:23.some of the potential risks. I think the SNP has made it quite clear,
:22:24. > :22:27.Joanna Cherry made it quite clear that there were some things about
:22:28. > :22:31.the bill that were useful but the whole thing should not necessarily
:22:32. > :22:34.be thrown out as an idea, there were certainly things within it that
:22:35. > :22:38.would need to be looked out. The SNP's position should not change on
:22:39. > :22:42.that. The voters realise that when it comes to security in this
:22:43. > :22:46.election, they are probably going to be looking at who is your next Prime
:22:47. > :22:49.Minister, which party will be in government? They are looking to them
:22:50. > :22:52.for the answers and security, so this has become a massive election
:22:53. > :23:00.issue suddenly right at the very last minute, but I do not think
:23:01. > :23:03.necessarily that people are looking towards the SNP's stands on security
:23:04. > :23:06.as being the big motivating factor for voters in Scotland. The Prime
:23:07. > :23:09.Minister is difficult ground with those on the home security. As Home
:23:10. > :23:13.Secretary, she presided over cuts to policing of almost 20,000. The only
:23:14. > :23:16.place in Britain where police numbers have been maintained is
:23:17. > :23:20.right here in Scotland under the SNP. She did this quite a lot of
:23:21. > :23:25.significant questions today from members of the media about police
:23:26. > :23:29.number cuts, and of course it is an important issue. However, even the
:23:30. > :23:36.Chief Constable of Police Scotland says that it is old-fashioned to
:23:37. > :23:39.judge policing just by police numbers. It looks like Police
:23:40. > :23:42.Scotland will no longer have a commitment to maintain police
:23:43. > :23:46.numbers. Nicola Sturgeon seems to accept now that it is about how you
:23:47. > :23:50.deal with the threat, not necessarily about bobbies on the
:23:51. > :23:55.beat any more. I do not think you can judge the previous Home
:23:56. > :24:00.Secretary's performance just by police numbers alone. Peter Jackson,
:24:01. > :24:03.a distributor Kerry for all the parties. Jeremy Corbyn has voted
:24:04. > :24:08.against anti-terror legislation on 17 different occasions down the
:24:09. > :24:15.years. Diane Abbott could not even work out how much extra policing was
:24:16. > :24:21.going to cost. Labour has some questions to answer, no doubt. They
:24:22. > :24:25.are playing up the cuts, 19,000 whatever, cuts in police numbers as
:24:26. > :24:29.a way of saying that Theresa May has serious questions to ask. In order
:24:30. > :24:34.for that action to -- argument to gain traction, it is quite important
:24:35. > :24:37.that they show that community policing does gather intelligence is
:24:38. > :24:40.vaulted counter-terrorism. That is an important argument, but it does
:24:41. > :24:44.come at the last minute and the public will not be able to judge
:24:45. > :24:46.very clearly on whether or not, you know, the Conservative government is
:24:47. > :24:51.right that it is the resources you give and powers you give to security
:24:52. > :24:56.and intelligence and police, or in fact, you know, bobbies on the beat.
:24:57. > :24:59.Is that important as a source of community intelligence gathering, to
:25:00. > :25:03.get a feel for communities, gain the trust of communities and to be
:25:04. > :25:08.someone to which communities can turn if they have concerns? Karim
:25:09. > :25:12.Angela, final question Time debate tonight from Edinburgh, Tim Farron
:25:13. > :25:18.and Nicola Sturgeon, two days to go, any major developments for you? It
:25:19. > :25:23.was like a game off 2/2, the debate. Tim Farron find it very difficult to
:25:24. > :25:27.justify one referendum on Brexit and opposing one on Scottish
:25:28. > :25:32.independence. When Nicola Sturgeon came out, she faced opposition from
:25:33. > :25:37.the audience about the idea of a second referendum. It did highlight
:25:38. > :25:40.how blurred the lines have become between devolved and Westminster
:25:41. > :25:42.issues. I think that is going to be an issue for us going forward.
:25:43. > :25:43.Especially with a live audience! Tomorrow on the campaign trail,
:25:44. > :25:46.it is all about oil and gas, Join us again tomorrow night
:25:47. > :27:02.for all that and more. It will stay with you for a good
:27:03. > :27:07.part of the next 24 hours. It is going to stay cloudy and wet pretty
:27:08. > :27:09.much across the board. A lot of the drive towards the west coast and
:27:10. > :27:13.more like showers for the Hebrides. Quite windy on the west and
:27:14. > :27:17.south-west coast from a northerly direction. That rain straight into
:27:18. > :27:22.part of the North of England, down towards East Anglia, to the southern
:27:23. > :27:25.flank. Really high winds down to Manchester down to the Midlands.
:27:26. > :27:31.Deal for such times. Across Wales under five, showers rather than
:27:32. > :27:36.rain. Breezy here and certainly, a windy day as well as a wet one.
:27:37. > :27:41.Quite a cool feeling day. 13, 14 Celsius. It will not feel like that,
:27:42. > :27:45.especially with the cloud. The rain and the wind. It slowly moves away
:27:46. > :27:50.and, come Wednesday, it is a brighter day for many of us. Still
:27:51. > :27:52.quite cloudy and dam across the far north and north-east, but,
:27:53. > :27:58.elsewhere, dry and bread. Some sunshine and the wind lighter. There
:27:59. > :28:01.'s dry, but there is more rain in the forecast. As we have those the
:28:02. > :28:02.afternoon, in It was an industry
:28:03. > :28:05.bursting at the seams. We exported thread
:28:06. > :28:08.to the whole world.