:00:00. > :00:00.Is it time we started doing it for ourselves?
:00:00. > :00:00.Tonight we're looking at taking control of our own lives.
:00:07. > :00:09.Do we really want to? And will the state let us?
:00:10. > :00:29.On the programme tonight, it's all about Power to the People.
:00:30. > :00:32.On the programme tonight, it's all about power to the people.
:00:33. > :00:39.We're talking about whether government services could
:00:40. > :00:42.Be transformed by giving citizens more control over their own lives.
:00:43. > :00:44.And we're biking across Harris to see how whole
:00:45. > :00:47.communities can take greater control of their own destiny.
:00:48. > :00:52.And why has golf membership in Scotland slumped?
:00:53. > :00:57.There has been a 17% drop in membership over the past ten years.
:00:58. > :01:01.I've been on the golf course asking why that is the case. And just how
:01:02. > :01:03.far is President Obama prepared to go as the violence in Iraq reaches a
:01:04. > :01:06.critical point? What has
:01:07. > :01:08.the government ever done for us? We may rely on the state
:01:09. > :01:10.for healthcare, welfare and education but are we
:01:11. > :01:12.really getting what we need? And how might it be
:01:13. > :01:14.delivered better? One new approach could be
:01:15. > :01:17.for the government to simply That's according to the man used to
:01:18. > :01:20.run the Scottish government, who thinks that the welfare state
:01:21. > :01:24.will keep failing those who need it most unless it allows them more
:01:25. > :01:43.control over their own lives. William Innis used to talk about
:01:44. > :01:47.booze and bookies. Now, it is broad beans and beetroot. All outside a
:01:48. > :01:50.community centre in Alloa. This is the man up project. My wife was
:01:51. > :01:58.getting up in the morning, watching a bit of telly, going down the
:01:59. > :02:02.bookies. -- my life. No cash. Just sitting there, looking at the
:02:03. > :02:06.screens. Do you think you have skills now arguing the job market?
:02:07. > :02:12.We all have skills now. A bit of gardening, do some help for the old
:02:13. > :02:16.folk. There had been a community centre here for years, but it was
:02:17. > :02:20.hardly used and was about to close. With a bit of help, but not a huge
:02:21. > :02:23.amount of money, people here are being helped to help themselves,
:02:24. > :02:29.which is what the latest report says needs to happen, because 30 to 40%
:02:30. > :02:33.of people are being consistently failed by the government. Today's
:02:34. > :02:39.report sets out steps to change the way the state helps people, the
:02:40. > :02:44.first of these is actually to say to government to get out of the way,
:02:45. > :02:48.when it prevents people from doing things for themselves. Instead, they
:02:49. > :02:52.want people to be given help to do more. This takes us to the buzzword.
:02:53. > :02:57.They want enabling to become the way forward. What does that mean,
:02:58. > :03:02.exactly? People feel dependent, because we treat them as dependent.
:03:03. > :03:08.30 or 40 years of evidence tells us that doing things to people does not
:03:09. > :03:16.work as well as enabling them to do things. So, step aside, we'll do
:03:17. > :03:20.that for you, is something that we can see very clearly does not work.
:03:21. > :03:25.Saying, here is something to get started with, that will enable you
:03:26. > :03:32.to do something, again, the evidence tells us that that works really
:03:33. > :03:38.powerfully. The idea was, let's try some chickens. That was quite a step
:03:39. > :03:41.forward. But not everywhere has an inspector Keith Jack Dee get them
:03:42. > :03:44.started. So what makes this different to all the other
:03:45. > :03:48.initiatives they have had? People have become a bit de-skilled,
:03:49. > :03:51.because we are so reliant now want someone else to solving our
:03:52. > :03:59.problems, whereas this is much more about seeing two people, what can we
:04:00. > :04:02.do as ourselves as a community. A community is a great network of help
:04:03. > :04:06.and support. So they have been enabled. But now, the community
:04:07. > :04:09.centre has been told their funding from the council might not be
:04:10. > :04:12.renewed in the autumn, so instead of the government getting out of the
:04:13. > :04:14.way, people are fearing it is just getting out.
:04:15. > :04:16.Joining me in the studio is the retired director of
:04:17. > :04:18.the Violence Reduction Unit, John Carnochan.
:04:19. > :04:21.And in our Dundee studio is Dr Stuart Waiton, who specialises
:04:22. > :04:27.in sociology and criminology at the University of Abertay.
:04:28. > :04:34.First, tell me, you have your own experience of enabling programmes.
:04:35. > :04:38.Added that work? We got to the stage where we seems to rely on leaders
:04:39. > :04:45.and plans to do everything, and it's come to the stage where even the
:04:46. > :04:48.leaders, like communities and police and the rest, think they are the
:04:49. > :04:53.people who are responsible for these things. We have got to the stage
:04:54. > :05:01.where people rely on it so much, we fail to deliver, and we are in the
:05:02. > :05:04.same position we have been" for the last 30 or 40 years. This is just
:05:05. > :05:08.about trying to say, the first people we should be listening to the
:05:09. > :05:11.ones experiencing this everyday, not the professionals who are involved
:05:12. > :05:16.and paid to do these things, but those who experience it everyday. It
:05:17. > :05:19.all sounds good, and it makes perfect sense that we should listen
:05:20. > :05:25.to the people who need these services most. Can it work? Well,
:05:26. > :05:32.you have to bear in mind, words like enabling and empowering, in my
:05:33. > :05:38.experience, as a community worker in particular, are weasel words. The
:05:39. > :05:43.state is generally happy to empower you to do what they are happy for
:05:44. > :05:49.you to do. If you decide to do something else, that generally isn't
:05:50. > :05:54.the case. This is an important question, though, because I think
:05:55. > :05:57.today, the state we have is a disabling states. It is a state that
:05:58. > :06:06.treats everybody as being vulnerable or at risk, and John himself, at the
:06:07. > :06:09.Violence Reduction Unit, there was what you could almost describe as an
:06:10. > :06:15.obsession with things like early intervention, and we now have a
:06:16. > :06:19.named person for every child in Scotland, so the state doesn't
:06:20. > :06:25.really even trust people to parent their own child's today, let alone
:06:26. > :06:32.run their own communities. So I think there is a serious problem in
:06:33. > :06:37.terms of the state having any sense that people can and should run their
:06:38. > :06:42.own lives and be free to do so. It sounds like we agree what the
:06:43. > :06:45.problem is, but not necessarily the solution, because some of what John
:06:46. > :06:49.is talking about, I have to say, sounds a bit like the big society
:06:50. > :06:54.and the happiness index, and David Cameron's ideas that never came to
:06:55. > :06:58.pass. I think it probably is, and we need to start a discussion. That is
:06:59. > :07:04.important. I absolutely agree in relation to how difficult it will
:07:05. > :07:07.be, because as Machiavelli said, the most difficult thing to introduces a
:07:08. > :07:11.new order of things. The power is not where it should be, and people
:07:12. > :07:15.will not give up power very, very quickly, but I think we need to
:07:16. > :07:20.start the discussion. We need to start somewhere, and I think the
:07:21. > :07:23.issue is that we are always looking for a great big plan that will fix
:07:24. > :07:29.everything, and the truth is, little things that work in different ways,
:07:30. > :07:36.at different times, in different places, scare cars. We are not
:07:37. > :07:41.confident enough. And would not get called a postcode lottery? You can
:07:42. > :07:44.access services in Glasgow that you can't in Dundee, people will start
:07:45. > :07:48.complaining very quickly. Absolutely. And another thing, we
:07:49. > :07:52.evaluate the think they will just be uplifted be uplifted, planted
:07:53. > :07:55.somewhere else and work. We don't take into account the people and the
:07:56. > :08:03.personalities involved who made it happen. So, John is hardly an
:08:04. > :08:07.anarchist. He spent a lifetime working in government. Do you think
:08:08. > :08:10.he means to deliver this? You don't think this is a means of duping
:08:11. > :08:14.people into thinking they are being empowered, when the state is keeping
:08:15. > :08:20.control? I don't think he is duping, I just think today, very few people
:08:21. > :08:26.in positions of power really understand what freedom means any
:08:27. > :08:30.more. I made a list. I don't think there is agreement, certainly not
:08:31. > :08:37.from me. The happiness index itself, that is the state basically trying
:08:38. > :08:40.to work out how to make us happy. How interventionist can a state be
:08:41. > :08:44.when it actually wants to get involved in my emotional feelings?
:08:45. > :08:49.But I made a list, in terms of things we are protected from today.
:08:50. > :08:53.So, neighbours are protected from each other from as close. Football
:08:54. > :08:57.fans are protected from each other from singing songs, we are protected
:08:58. > :09:00.from drink by wanting to increase the price, we are protected from
:09:01. > :09:04.bereavement in schools. They want to teach kids how to deal with
:09:05. > :09:07.bereavement. Protected from cigarette, protected from fatty food
:09:08. > :09:12.adverts. That is the next one. Children are protected from adults
:09:13. > :09:15.by all the betting legislation, and now they are almost going to be
:09:16. > :09:18.protected from their own parents by the state giving them a named
:09:19. > :09:22.person. There is no sense of people having the capacity to be free and
:09:23. > :09:25.deal with each other so the idea that we are suddenly going to have
:09:26. > :09:30.an enabling state that gives us more freedom, well, I await with bated
:09:31. > :09:34.breath. The conversation about the enabling state has at least begun
:09:35. > :09:35.today, even though it has not been answered for top thank you very much
:09:36. > :09:38.for joining us. Now, on a similar theme -
:09:39. > :09:41.here's the second part of our series of films made by our Referendum
:09:42. > :09:43.Correspondent Laura Bicker. As a triathlete in her spare time,
:09:44. > :09:46.we took advantage of her good nature and sent her off
:09:47. > :09:49.to the Outer Hebrides to swim, run Tonight she got on her bike
:09:50. > :10:20.to investigate land reform. I'm on a quest through Healy Harris
:10:21. > :10:25.to look at what for many is at the heart of this independence debate,
:10:26. > :10:31.what happens when you give power back to the people. Half of all
:10:32. > :10:38.private land in Scotland is in the hands of 432 people, but not this
:10:39. > :10:41.bit. North Harris has been owned and managed by the local community for
:10:42. > :10:48.over ten years. David Cameron was one of the trustees. He now helps
:10:49. > :10:51.others through the buyout process. There is something magic that
:10:52. > :10:54.happens. I don't know what it is, but speaking with us earlier today,
:10:55. > :11:01.when the community took over the land, it reinvigorates it, changing
:11:02. > :11:05.from a can't do society into one that at least tries. It releases and
:11:06. > :11:08.energy that is not apparent when it is under private land ownership.
:11:09. > :11:14.Perhaps it is some thing to do with confidence, perhaps something to do
:11:15. > :11:18.with building capacity, but it works, I guarantee you. The North
:11:19. > :11:23.Harris trust is like a mini development agency. In this small
:11:24. > :11:27.corner of land alone, it has found her funding for new housing, a
:11:28. > :11:28.hydroelectric station, and wind turbines, all to generate money to
:11:29. > :11:38.put back the community. Further south, I travel through the
:11:39. > :11:41.Bay of Paris, where they are watching their neighbours closely.
:11:42. > :11:46.This land is owned by a private landlord, who lives elsewhere.
:11:47. > :11:50.Scotland has one of the most unequal patterns of land ownership in the
:11:51. > :11:55.developed world. It is something the Scottish Government is trying to
:11:56. > :11:58.reform, but a few powers still lie with Westminster. People here are
:11:59. > :12:03.holding about on whether to find funds to buy out the landlord. John
:12:04. > :12:06.Maher believes it could make all the difference. It is right that the
:12:07. > :12:14.people who actually live here should have a say in what happens here, as
:12:15. > :12:17.opposed to somebody sitting down south, and again, I am not doing
:12:18. > :12:23.this is a personal date at the current landlord. By accident of
:12:24. > :12:27.birth, that might have been me. I might be sat down there talking
:12:28. > :12:31.about this patch of the Outer Hebrides that I own. And you think
:12:32. > :12:36.as a community, you will manage to work together? That is the
:12:37. > :12:42.interesting thing. There are people who are dead set against the
:12:43. > :12:50.buyout. The phrase you often hear is, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
:12:51. > :12:54.My response to that is, it has been broken for generations. Community
:12:55. > :12:57.ownership can be a bumpy ride. Not everyone will agree on how things
:12:58. > :13:02.should be done. That has already happened in parts of Harris. Moving
:13:03. > :13:07.forward was an uphill struggle, and politics came into play. So wouldn't
:13:08. > :13:13.it be better to find a way to work together? We are not far from North
:13:14. > :13:16.Uist, and the community there seems to say that they are happy with how
:13:17. > :13:19.the land is managed, and the delivery of public benefit is there,
:13:20. > :13:22.but they have been made to feel almost like failures because they
:13:23. > :13:25.are not issuing the community ownership grew. I think what you
:13:26. > :13:28.have to do with land reform is little the objectives you are trying
:13:29. > :13:32.to deliver, the best outcomes for that community. The community has to
:13:33. > :13:35.be allowed to decide that, including businesses and private owners, as to
:13:36. > :13:40.what is best for them. It might not be ownership.
:13:41. > :13:48.So far on my travels, I have found many who want more of a say on how
:13:49. > :13:52.Scotland is governed. Could Harris be the story of this referendum?
:13:53. > :13:58.Competing visions of land ownership and a struggle to find a way
:13:59. > :14:01.forward. But changing the constitution is far more complete
:14:02. > :14:07.bated than managing this piece of land. -- complicated. Could a
:14:08. > :14:13.country with so many divided opinions come together if things
:14:14. > :14:17.went wrong, or would we accept the consequences of our decisions?
:14:18. > :14:21.Joining me in the studio this evening is the Scottish
:14:22. > :14:27.And the author of The Poor Had No Lawyers, activist Andy Wightman.
:14:28. > :14:32.Thank you for coming in. Can I ask you first, Mr Whiteman, the Land
:14:33. > :14:37.Reform Review Group that has come up with a lengthy number of proposals
:14:38. > :14:41.to reform land usage in Scotland, would it be a very dramatic change?
:14:42. > :14:46.Worded address some of the problems we saw Rebecca talking about there?
:14:47. > :14:51.The review group has produced a very broad, detailed report covering
:14:52. > :14:56.rural, urban areas both, and I don't think anything in it is terribly
:14:57. > :15:01.radical. It is quite modest, and it modernises Scotland's laws relating
:15:02. > :15:08.to land, bringing us up to date. That is a good thing. Scotland has
:15:09. > :15:10.some of the least equitable land distributional in Europe, doesn't
:15:11. > :15:19.it? Half of the country is owned by 500 people. It is time we had some
:15:20. > :15:27.significant reform. I den thing that is important in itself, it is how
:15:28. > :15:33.the land is used. -- I don't think. In my experience, there are a few
:15:34. > :15:42.bad for the indeed a role, but the majority of Scottish estates are
:15:43. > :15:47.well run and well managed. They provide community benefit. It's not
:15:48. > :15:51.just about economic output is, it's about self-determination and whether
:15:52. > :15:54.the people are happy. We can all remember a time when the land was
:15:55. > :16:00.clear because it was more economical to put sheep on it and people. It is
:16:01. > :16:08.not just an economic argument. When you approach this from an
:16:09. > :16:26.ideological basis, saying large areas of land owned privately is a
:16:27. > :16:34.bad thing, it's not necessarily so. It is confrontational that we should
:16:35. > :16:43.have Corporation. I was a bit disappointed in that. Half the
:16:44. > :16:51.report covers urban issues. This is sensible staff. This debate is about
:16:52. > :16:58.power. It is about how about power is derived, distributed and
:16:59. > :17:09.exercised. The report is trying to get more people involved in how the
:17:10. > :17:14.land in Scotland is owned and used. Anthony Eden said in 1947 that
:17:15. > :17:20.everyone should own their house. The way to achieve that is to
:17:21. > :17:24.Corporation. Not to save to one group of people, we don't like the
:17:25. > :17:30.fact that you own this and we are going to take it away. The way that
:17:31. > :17:34.Scotland is owned is up to us. We own the system. We need to change
:17:35. > :17:48.it. There is a fundamental problem with this system, but I don't accept
:17:49. > :17:53.that. There are people with derelict land who can't do anything with it.
:17:54. > :17:57.It is a huge agenda. It is not about bigger states. In many ways they are
:17:58. > :18:03.the least important. Thank you for coming in to talk to us. Laura will
:18:04. > :18:15.be back next week with a final part of her adventure when she is on the
:18:16. > :18:21.Isle of Skye. Now to Jonathan. Golf club membership levels are in
:18:22. > :18:26.decline, with some clubs closing. What is the problem and what is
:18:27. > :18:36.Scottish often to stop the rot? Scotland, the home of golf. There is
:18:37. > :18:44.a problem - club ownership is on the way down. Over the last two-year is
:18:45. > :18:50.we have lost 17.4% of adult members, men and women. That is common across
:18:51. > :18:54.Europe. It is not unique to Scotland. Having said that, there
:18:55. > :19:00.are still 230,000 people who are members. But this drop in membership
:19:01. > :19:08.means some clubs are closing down. Not all that long ago this golf club
:19:09. > :19:11.was thriving, but as sharp slump in membership in recent years has
:19:12. > :19:17.changed all that and today their ways and greens are dormant and
:19:18. > :19:22.evergreen. Nine or ten years ago we had in excess of 800 members. When
:19:23. > :19:30.we close the doors that number had dropped to around 200. You are
:19:31. > :19:37.talking about two thirds of a drop. So, is the sport losing its appeal?
:19:38. > :19:43.I am not a offer. I have never touched a golf club in my life. I
:19:44. > :19:51.have been slightly put off by it in the past. But today, I am going to
:19:52. > :20:02.get my first ever golf lesson, thanks to Scott. So where do we
:20:03. > :20:08.start. -- start? I didn't quite mastered golf, but knocking a ball
:20:09. > :20:17.around with a stick in an idyllic setting on a beautiful day, how
:20:18. > :20:27.could that not be enjoyable? I was pleasantly surprised by my
:20:28. > :20:29.experience. Some golf courses are intimidating. There are walls and
:20:30. > :20:35.regulations on what you should wear and what you should do when you are
:20:36. > :20:40.swinging a golf club. It can be intimidating and we need to cut down
:20:41. > :20:47.some of those barriers. The image of golf is evolving. 30 years ago you
:20:48. > :20:54.would not have seen Sandy Lyle on MTV. But now people like Bubba
:20:55. > :20:59.Watson spend their time making amusing music videos. There is a
:21:00. > :21:08.real lost generation of young to middle aged men, the skies who pay
:21:09. > :21:12.for fees that keep clubs going. Because of lifestyle now, there is
:21:13. > :21:18.no time to play golf and because of that they can't justify the cost of
:21:19. > :21:22.memberships and that has caused a row problem. The relationship
:21:23. > :21:27.between club and the average golfer is changing. They are looking for
:21:28. > :21:35.golf on their terms, not necessarily on the club's terms. That presents a
:21:36. > :21:41.challenge to us. The biggest challenge is the economic model that
:21:42. > :21:44.golf clubs are based on. It's traditionally around membership and
:21:45. > :21:51.if that is changing, we by definition need to change the
:21:52. > :21:57.economic model that golf clubs work. Someone joining a club or played
:21:58. > :22:02.most at their home club where they are member. Now there is more of a
:22:03. > :22:12.desire to experience golf on a number of courses. There are a lot
:22:13. > :22:17.of rounds of golf that can be purchased at keen prices. Over the
:22:18. > :22:26.last ten years the Scottish golf union have brought in golf for
:22:27. > :22:33.younger players. A new economic model is needed to make sure clubs
:22:34. > :22:36.stay open for now and for the future generations coming through.
:22:37. > :22:48.With us now to talk about some of the other stories is the political
:22:49. > :22:56.correspondent for the times and the actress Eunice. President Obama has
:22:57. > :23:11.said he will send 300 military advisers into Iraq. Lindsay, what is
:23:12. > :23:18.your reaction to how he is managing this rush to mark is this a
:23:19. > :23:22.diplomatic, not a military issue? The emphasis is on the language. He
:23:23. > :23:29.seems to be saying the politicians in Iraq need to be reaching out
:23:30. > :23:33.across sectarian divide. What you have to remember about President
:23:34. > :23:38.Obama is that when he launched his 2008 presidential campaign he
:23:39. > :23:44.stressed his opposition to the original war in Iraq in 2003. Now to
:23:45. > :23:50.be going in and making a military case would not sit well. He is
:23:51. > :23:58.looking for regime change in Iraq. He does not want Mourey al-Maliki to
:23:59. > :24:04.stay as Prime Minister and their wad be a solution to this if he does. He
:24:05. > :24:10.is not a supporter of the regime and he is looking for a change to
:24:11. > :24:16.diplomatic efforts. Eunice, David Cameron reminded us that this is
:24:17. > :24:23.something to do with written. There is a terror threat when ices take
:24:24. > :24:26.control of a country like Iraq. Everyone is going to be concerned
:24:27. > :24:37.about something like this and whatever we do, it is targeted and
:24:38. > :24:40.we take into account the government and people in that country to make
:24:41. > :24:48.sure what we do does not escalate the problem. How impressed have you
:24:49. > :24:59.been with Barack Obama's foreign policy? The approach he has taken
:25:00. > :25:11.has played up quite well. He has distinguished himself from his lead
:25:12. > :25:19.assessor. Let's touch on domestic politics. Ed Miliband saying that if
:25:20. > :25:22.they got into power they would cut benefits for 18 to 21-year-olds
:25:23. > :25:31.unless they got key training skills. Is this an unwelcome lurch to the
:25:32. > :25:37.right, or a clever move to chime in with the electorate? I do think it
:25:38. > :25:42.is a lurch to the right. What was interesting is the language he used.
:25:43. > :25:50.He said it is tough love. He appropriated the language of the
:25:51. > :26:00.right of centre to get those voters on board. In Scotland we are told
:26:01. > :26:14.there is a difference in attitude towards benefit. It has been said
:26:15. > :26:21.that it seems Ed Miliband is tweeting Tory rhetoric. There is an
:26:22. > :26:25.attractive policy. The most important thing is that we ensure
:26:26. > :26:30.what ever services are offered, they appealed to old and young people. So
:26:31. > :26:37.making sure there is enough of a spread of different types of
:26:38. > :26:41.traineeships. Vocational, trades and so on. It is important to have that
:26:42. > :26:47.available. And if the right training is available, is it right to refuse
:26:48. > :26:53.benefits to those who refuse training? It is a difficult thing.
:26:54. > :26:58.It is important to make sure people get what they are entitled to. It is
:26:59. > :27:02.important to address why he bought don't want to take on the training
:27:03. > :27:20.because they could be underlying issues. Eunice, you are a model.
:27:21. > :27:28.ChildLine are saying that selfies can feel body image issues. Parents
:27:29. > :27:36.need to check what their children are doing. It does not make sense to
:27:37. > :27:39.control what young people are doing in real life and not what they are
:27:40. > :27:46.doing on the Internet. Difficult when you have kids and you have pop
:27:47. > :27:58.stars who are always taking selfies. It must be difficult for
:27:59. > :28:07.parents when their children are fans of pop stars. What is worrying is we
:28:08. > :28:11.have seen a rise of websites where kids can put their pitch out there
:28:12. > :28:17.and ask questions like, do you think I am attractive? The responses that
:28:18. > :28:21.you get are really horrifying and have had tragic consequences in a
:28:22. > :28:29.number of cases. The breast Cancer awareness campaign where people work
:28:30. > :28:35.tweeting self is -- selfies with no make-up on with interesting. Did you
:28:36. > :28:40.do it, Eunice? I do often post pictures like that. It is important
:28:41. > :28:43.that in society as a whole that we place more importance on other
:28:44. > :28:49.things themselves beauty and self image. We have to leave it there.
:28:50. > :28:55.That is it from us this week. You can contact us on twitter. I'll be
:28:56. > :29:03.back at the same time on Monday. Good night.