23/06/2014

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:00:00. > :00:00.On the day we discover a radical jihadist left Aberdeen

:00:00. > :00:07.to fight for ISIS, we ask - what would an independent Scotland's

:00:08. > :00:30.BBC Scotland has revealed tonight that a third British man

:00:31. > :00:32.in a recruitment video for the Islamic militant group,

:00:33. > :00:37.We'll have the latest from our correspondent there.

:00:38. > :00:41.An independent Scotland would have its own Foreign Minister, its own

:00:42. > :00:44.seat at the UN, and would be free to operate its own foreign policy.

:00:45. > :00:47.But would it be any different from the diplomatic strategy

:00:48. > :00:56.And the man who has now been Trumped - twice.

:00:57. > :01:00.Wisbech Anthony Baxter but finally getting to confront The Donald. --

:01:01. > :01:03.we speak to. The BBC has learned tonight that

:01:04. > :01:05.a British man pictured in a recruitment video

:01:06. > :01:07.for the Islamic militant group ISIS The man has been named locally

:01:08. > :01:10.as Raqib. In the video, he is seen wearing a

:01:11. > :01:14.white turban with a Kalashnikov in his lap and he is heard preaching

:01:15. > :01:17.the joys of jihad and urging other Read the Koran, you will find out

:01:18. > :01:28.what is jihad. Our correspondent James Cook has

:01:29. > :01:39.spent the day in Aberdeen. People here are shocked. They are

:01:40. > :01:43.shocked to see someone who they knew and remembered as someone who

:01:44. > :01:49.perhaps caused trouble but always, I was told, with his this is rather

:01:50. > :01:54.than anything else, he was not any more violent than that. This man who

:01:55. > :02:01.has been named locally as Raqib. But he was not regarded as a radical.

:02:02. > :02:06.So, there is a sense here that people are shocked, they are shocked

:02:07. > :02:09.at the video, when they see him walking in with the other fighters,

:02:10. > :02:17.when they see them sitting down and talking about radical Islam, urging

:02:18. > :02:22.people to take up arms and to fight for Allah. So, it has undoubtedly

:02:23. > :02:26.been a shocking experience for people in Aberdeen and particularly

:02:27. > :02:29.people in the Muslim community. They insist that they knew nothing about

:02:30. > :02:34.this and they were surprised about it, they say he was last seen he --

:02:35. > :02:37.your couple of years ago, they think he moved to Leicester, but they say

:02:38. > :02:41.they do not know how or where he might have been radicalised. Is

:02:42. > :02:44.there any reason why we should be particularly shocked that some of

:02:45. > :02:47.years ago, they think he moved to Leicester, but they say they do not

:02:48. > :02:49.know how or where he might have been radicalised. Is there any reason why

:02:50. > :02:52.we should be particularly shocked that somebody than any other part of

:02:53. > :02:57.the UK? I don't know. I suppose if there are young Muslim men who feel

:02:58. > :03:00.angry in England, there may well be young Muslim men who feel angry in

:03:01. > :03:06.Scotland or indeed, as we have seen, in Wales. So I think there is a

:03:07. > :03:10.sense of shock, particularly here in Aberdeen, because it is such a

:03:11. > :03:14.tight-knit community. In that sense, it might be more shocking, more

:03:15. > :03:22.surprising, than in a big city like London. Red there, we asked Frank

:03:23. > :03:27.Gardner how big a security risk this poses for Scotland and the UK. --

:03:28. > :03:31.earlier. The longer it goes on, the bigger the threat will be. I think

:03:32. > :03:34.the reason why politicians and police officials are sounding the

:03:35. > :03:40.alarm, it is more an expectation that this is storing up trouble

:03:41. > :03:48.historically. -- historically, people who have gone to fight for

:03:49. > :03:50.jihad, roughly one in nine, when they have returned, have got

:03:51. > :03:55.involved in domestic terrorism. So, if you extrapolate that if 500

:03:56. > :03:59.buttons have gone to fight, there will be a fair number who may

:04:00. > :04:04.possibly somewhere down the line be so violently minded, so

:04:05. > :04:09.pathologically in Europe in the violence of what they have seen and

:04:10. > :04:11.done out there, getting involved in kidnappings and beheadings, that

:04:12. > :04:17.they will be a danger to society when they come back. But as we have

:04:18. > :04:21.heard over the weekend, you cannot monitor everybody. They will have to

:04:22. > :04:25.prioritise. Sooner or later, somebody will make a slip, they will

:04:26. > :04:32.think, actually, we do not have time to monitor him. We will forget about

:04:33. > :04:38.him. And that person is the one who is planning to do something. In

:04:39. > :04:43.terms of Scotland, this is not your first brush with this kind of thing,

:04:44. > :04:48.you had the attack on Glasgow airport, but these are a tiny

:04:49. > :04:53.minority of people, embedded in a peaceful community. So, it is well

:04:54. > :04:54.important not to demonise the rest of that community.

:04:55. > :04:57.An independent Scotland would have almost 100 international embassies

:04:58. > :05:00.Scottish politicians and diplomats would be free to pursue

:05:01. > :05:04.policies quite separate from the priorities of the rest of the UK.

:05:05. > :05:07.How would Scottish foreign policy differ from Britain's?

:05:08. > :05:19.Our political correspondent Lucy Adams has been finding out.

:05:20. > :05:24.To international symbols, two neighbours and soon, one big

:05:25. > :05:29.decision that will that in Scotland's place in the world.

:05:30. > :05:35.Outward facing, welcoming and an active participant on the world

:05:36. > :05:39.stage, that is the SNP's vision Scotland, but what is the reality

:05:40. > :05:45.for a small, new, independent nation? And are there areas where

:05:46. > :05:47.Scotland, despite its size, can punch above its weight on the

:05:48. > :05:56.International Arena between -- Arena? Scotland already spends ?9

:05:57. > :05:59.million a year on foreign aid, even though international development is

:06:00. > :06:07.reserved to Westminster. More than half goes to Malawi. The Scotland

:06:08. > :06:12.Mullally partnership says it is not just about money. If you were to

:06:13. > :06:16.draw up a list of major donors in Malawi, Scotland would be in the

:06:17. > :06:21.bottom half of the top ten. But looking at the impact that Scotland,

:06:22. > :06:24.the people of Scotland, can have in Malawi, it is far greater than that.

:06:25. > :06:29.I believe there are things you can do, almost because you have less

:06:30. > :06:34.money to put into it. If you can inspire civil society to be

:06:35. > :06:37.involved, if you can build on those long-standing historical and

:06:38. > :06:39.cultural links, if you have a position of genuine trust and

:06:40. > :06:45.friendship with Malawi, there is a lot you can do. Wood-mac what about

:06:46. > :06:49.climate change, area where Scotland sees itself as a world leader? The

:06:50. > :06:53.interesting thing about climate change is that it knows no

:06:54. > :07:01.boundaries. We need to work with other countries, irrespective, the

:07:02. > :07:04.Scottish climate act was set and could be met with the powers

:07:05. > :07:07.devolved to Scotland, but it required Scotland to work with the

:07:08. > :07:12.UK and within Europe to meet those targets. Some of the ways we will

:07:13. > :07:15.make them rely on others to act as well in unison. But will not change.

:07:16. > :07:22.Irrespective of the outcome of the referendum. Academics assessing the

:07:23. > :07:30.proposed foreign policy say it could bring rate of manoeuvrability but

:07:31. > :07:34.greater vulnerability. There's something about small estates being

:07:35. > :07:38.smarter states. If you think about international economy, a small

:07:39. > :07:42.economy, the crisis comes up, it is a smaller boat in the sea, so you

:07:43. > :07:45.can change direction and adapt to changing constraints and conditions

:07:46. > :07:49.a little bit more. On the other hand, if there is a tidal wave

:07:50. > :07:54.coming at you, the small states will get washed over more than a bigger

:07:55. > :07:58.state or a big ship. Without the UK, some warn that Scotland faces

:07:59. > :08:04.serious challenges internationally, in terms of resources, logistics and

:08:05. > :08:07.kudos. As a new nation, experts say Scotland would have to forge new

:08:08. > :08:13.alliances in order to exert influence abroad. Critics say

:08:14. > :08:18.Scotland cannot afford the cost of diplomacy. Yes Scotland say the

:08:19. > :08:20.reverse. I am going to see the diplomatic representative of a small

:08:21. > :08:25.country with a GDP per capita similar to Scotland. Like most small

:08:26. > :08:32.countries, Austria has no position on the Scottish referendum. I would

:08:33. > :08:35.imagine Scotland would be very concerned to make sure that it got

:08:36. > :08:40.the representation right and that it would not necessarily have consoles

:08:41. > :08:47.in every country of the world, it would have representation in many

:08:48. > :08:50.bases but I cannot recollect. Whether Scotland remains within the

:08:51. > :08:54.UK or chooses independence, constraints remain. The biggest will

:08:55. > :09:03.be the difference between what it wants to and can, in reality,

:09:04. > :09:06.deliver. The SNP talks about a do no harm policy. So it's foreign policy

:09:07. > :09:09.should do no harm to developing countries. That is a great principle

:09:10. > :09:14.and letting principles matter a lot, but sometimes your economic

:09:15. > :09:20.prosperity and your security may involve a trade-off. Those are the

:09:21. > :09:27.hard choices that leaders have and that is kind of the art of

:09:28. > :09:35.decision-making. Lucy Adams. I am joined by Humza Yousef, who is in

:09:36. > :09:40.Edinburgh, and Anas Sarwar. Can I ask you first, we may be shocked

:09:41. > :09:44.that this man known as Raqib lest -- left Aberdeen, where he grew up, to

:09:45. > :09:48.go and fight for ISIS, should we be surprised that young men are leaving

:09:49. > :09:52.Scotland to join the jihad? It is a huge surprise to have someone was

:09:53. > :09:56.brought up on freedom and democracy, one of our own, leave you

:09:57. > :10:00.to take part in a situation like that abroad, it brings immense hurt

:10:01. > :10:10.to us in Scotland and also immense concern. We should be practising the

:10:11. > :10:17.people -- the principles we live by. Humza Yousef, what was your reaction

:10:18. > :10:25.to that? Echoing what Anas Sarwar said. Being in and out of mosques in

:10:26. > :10:29.Scotland, I have never come across anyone who has had that kind of view

:10:30. > :10:37.before. It was a huge shock. But the one thing I am certain of is that

:10:38. > :10:39.incidents like this, the Scottish community has not demonised the

:10:40. > :10:43.Muslim community at all. What they have done is pooled around them and

:10:44. > :10:49.I am confident that will happen again. We will not use this as an

:10:50. > :10:53.excuse for any misbehaviour. Let's move on and talk about the idea of

:10:54. > :10:56.an independent Scotland's foreign policy and how it would be operated.

:10:57. > :11:00.Looking at some of the biggest challenges around the world today,

:11:01. > :11:05.in Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, how would an independent Scotland rose-mac

:11:06. > :11:10.policy differ from the UK's current one? Where we agree with the UK

:11:11. > :11:16.Government, instead of having one strong voice and opinion, there will

:11:17. > :11:21.be two of them. So, in Iraq, I was on the phone today to a Foreign

:11:22. > :11:25.Office, North Minister, there was not any difference in terms of how

:11:26. > :11:30.you approach the situation. Instead of having one country, you would

:11:31. > :11:36.have to countries making that contribution. Where we agree, there

:11:37. > :11:41.would be a stronger voice, but we disagree on the Iraq war, and many

:11:42. > :11:46.other situations. But we would have the chance to take a different path.

:11:47. > :11:49.You have to go back to 2003 divine something you disagree with? Where

:11:50. > :11:56.would you take a different line now? When I was Minister for axed --

:11:57. > :12:02.external affairs, I wrote to William Hague as the Foreign Secretary and

:12:03. > :12:05.suggested that when the vote for Palestinian statehood came up, the

:12:06. > :12:09.UK should support it but the UK choose to abstain, which I thought

:12:10. > :12:17.was wrong. So, there have been recent examples as well. IPod is

:12:18. > :12:20.full, when you disagree, we could charter on power and have

:12:21. > :12:24.Scotland's voice at the topple -- top of the table. Where we agree

:12:25. > :12:30.with the UK, you get two voices that are stronger, than mostly just one.

:12:31. > :12:36.Would anybody be listening to the voice of an independent Scotland? I

:12:37. > :12:38.think he oversaw the opposite. At the moment, people listen to

:12:39. > :12:42.Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland because together

:12:43. > :12:48.collectively, we have a much stronger voice in the world. We are

:12:49. > :12:54.a G20 country, we have a seat at the top table in NATO and the EU, in the

:12:55. > :12:57.UN Security Council, something we we won't not have this column was

:12:58. > :13:01.independent. And you talk about the challenges the world faces. Yes, we

:13:02. > :13:06.face immense challenges around climate change, that does not

:13:07. > :13:09.recognise borders. We face immense challenges around global poverty.

:13:10. > :13:17.Through the UK partnership we are part of the most successful

:13:18. > :13:21.partnership in the world. There is a budget of ?10 billion, that is

:13:22. > :13:26.Scotland not just being part of the UK, it is Scotland leading the UK

:13:27. > :13:30.and Scotland shipping the world, not showing away from it. That is the

:13:31. > :13:33.role I want Scotland to play, not a smaller role, but to lead the world

:13:34. > :13:38.and change the world like Scots have always done. It is tempting when you

:13:39. > :13:41.look at some of the more intractable problems on the world stage to look

:13:42. > :13:46.at going in with a clean slate. The UK Government said it was opening

:13:47. > :13:49.its in the -- its embassy in Iran. Scotland could be in there as an

:13:50. > :13:52.honest broker, dealing with countries without all the baggage

:13:53. > :14:00.that comes with generations of UK foreign policy. Mata-mac you talk

:14:01. > :14:03.about infrastructure, the more we share infrastructure, we share costs

:14:04. > :14:08.and benefits of having international embassies and consulates across the

:14:09. > :14:19.world. Why would we want to set up two separate ones? It would

:14:20. > :14:25.startling costs to the UK. Let's not try and pretend that Scotland is the

:14:26. > :14:29.victim of previous wrongs of the British Empire. Scotland was at the

:14:30. > :14:37.heart of the British Empire. Let's not pretend we are part of a protest

:14:38. > :14:41.vote. I opposed Iraq. I stood beside them protesting against Iraq. This

:14:42. > :14:44.is not about the right or wrong decision ten years ago it is about

:14:45. > :14:49.what is right for our children today and our children ten years ago. I

:14:50. > :14:54.genuinely believe that Scotland having a bigger voice in the world

:14:55. > :14:57.and not a diminished one, and we would be diminished, as would wheels

:14:58. > :15:03.and Northern Ireland, Scotland chose to walk away. Both of you say that

:15:04. > :15:06.you disagreed with the decision to invade Iraq but there will be

:15:07. > :15:12.occasions when Titans and spectators must be challenged. The cause of

:15:13. > :15:15.what they are doing and in their own countries and over their borders. An

:15:16. > :15:21.independent Scotland could not stand up to them as effectively as the UK

:15:22. > :15:26.can. That is incorrect. You operate under the security under a lot of

:15:27. > :15:33.little or the UN. I take a exception to what was said. He uses the words

:15:34. > :15:38.as being too small. I do not think Scotland is too small. Where the

:15:39. > :15:43.over simplify the matter is that he says Scotland has a voice at the top

:15:44. > :15:48.table. Scotland does not. In my over one year and a half in being the

:15:49. > :15:55.Minister for external affairs never once has the UK Government called me

:15:56. > :15:59.to ask what the people want. The reality as... I did not interrupt

:16:00. > :16:04.you so allow me to finish. Malcom Exocet been at the top table does

:16:05. > :16:08.not make you a diner, eating the food does. Adding your own voice, we

:16:09. > :16:16.would be a peaceful contribution. We agree with Yuki having a strong

:16:17. > :16:19.voice and being a global player for peace and you are correct in

:16:20. > :16:25.pointing out UK foreign policy over several years and it has been a

:16:26. > :16:31.foreign policy that has been accused of double standards. 20 years ago we

:16:32. > :16:37.were training people and giving them weapons in Afghanistan. Scotland

:16:38. > :16:41.could be in a position to not be loaded with this baggage.

:16:42. > :16:43.Film maker Anthony Baxter has spent years in pursuit

:16:44. > :16:45.of the controversial American billionaire Donald Trump.

:16:46. > :16:48.His first film about The Donald got him arrested before it won him

:16:49. > :16:52.Now, his sequel, A Dangerous Game, is about to premiere at the

:16:53. > :16:55.Edinburgh Film Festival tomorrow night and this time he has finally

:16:56. > :16:58.Here he is taking on the international businessman

:16:59. > :17:14.She made legal threat against the BBC when they showed the film and

:17:15. > :17:18.you said it was defamatory. It was. The tone was so one-sided and one

:17:19. > :17:26.reason I agreed to do the interview was that no one was available to

:17:27. > :17:33.speak up for our side. You never ask anyone from our side. Kill Matthew

:17:34. > :17:38.never let us speak to you. The police obviously had a good reason

:17:39. > :17:44.to do what they do. You have used your own private security force. No

:17:45. > :17:49.one from our side was asked for an opinion or give an opinion. I am

:17:50. > :17:52.sure it would not have been put in any way. I am sure that my answers

:17:53. > :17:57.will be cut short and highly inaccurate which is why I have the

:17:58. > :18:03.camera watching us. Anthony Baxter is with us now. You finally got to

:18:04. > :18:09.confront him after years of trying. How was it? It was important to be

:18:10. > :18:12.able to put to Mr Trump the questions I have been denied the

:18:13. > :18:17.opportunity to put to him. Questions local residents wanted to ask, they

:18:18. > :18:23.have spent years being the lead and harassed by his organisation. This

:18:24. > :18:28.was an opportunity to do that. It was disappointing making the film,

:18:29. > :18:32.we ask for an interview with Alexander as well and that was the

:18:33. > :18:37.night. It is important that we have these opportunities to put people in

:18:38. > :18:41.power, the rich and powerful and our politicians to hold them to account

:18:42. > :18:45.for decisions that have been very questionable. Double strong

:18:46. > :18:50.challenges you and says that your film making is one-sided. I

:18:51. > :18:55.understand it is a polemic but it does not represent the point of view

:18:56. > :19:00.of people who support what the is doing and the jobs that he has

:19:01. > :19:03.created would be to this and he has brought in. Is the correct in saying

:19:04. > :19:09.you are only taking one side of the our timid? Mr Trump promised 6000

:19:10. > :19:15.jobs. That was in my bod by the Scottish Government. In reality

:19:16. > :19:18.fewer than 200 jobs were created. It is very questionable, the amount of

:19:19. > :19:25.economic prosperity that has been brought to an area that has less

:19:26. > :19:28.than 1% of employment. We did work very hard to beat the other side of

:19:29. > :19:32.the story in the film and we did in the first film, but it is very

:19:33. > :19:38.difficult when the Scottish Government will not give you an

:19:39. > :19:43.interview. The Trump organisation did not do an interview. Here they

:19:44. > :19:49.finally did it. Has he seen the film? The accused you there, saying

:19:50. > :19:54.he did not think he would cut your interview fairly. He has not seen it

:19:55. > :19:57.as far as I know but as you saw the happy camera on the whole interview

:19:58. > :20:05.so he will no doubt but that online when the film comes out. Of course

:20:06. > :20:11.we will not run the whole interview of Mr Trump so we have to edit. He

:20:12. > :20:17.has announced that he will not build the second golf course. Is that the

:20:18. > :20:26.victory? The local people think it is a victory. Let's remember what

:20:27. > :20:32.was promised and what was delivered. The economic prosperity that was

:20:33. > :20:36.promised has not been delivered. He has essentially walked away from

:20:37. > :20:41.that development, he has recently announced since we finished the film

:20:42. > :20:44.that he is promising a ?100 million investment there but that figure has

:20:45. > :20:48.not been scrutinised by the journalists covering the story. It

:20:49. > :20:55.is time these kinds of numbers are questioned. Thank you very much.

:20:56. > :21:08.Let's hope that the next thing he is here that The Donald will come for

:21:09. > :21:11.an interview. France 24 reports a cease-fire in

:21:12. > :21:18.Eastern Ukrainian regions until Friday following Cox. On the BBC

:21:19. > :21:24.website the US Secretary of State John Kerry Ross is intense but

:21:25. > :21:28.sustained support for Iraq. And al-Jazeera's top story is that

:21:29. > :21:34.they're journalists have been sentenced to seven and ten years in

:21:35. > :21:35.jail by an Egyptian court on charges of aiding the Muslim brotherhood and

:21:36. > :21:39.reporting false news. With me now are Ewan Aitken,

:21:40. > :21:41.former Labour leader of Edinburgh City Council and now CEO of

:21:42. > :21:54.the Syrenians charity and Natalie Let's start with the Al Jazeera

:21:55. > :22:00.story. Al-Jazeera said the news by tweets themselves saying that

:22:01. > :22:05.journalism was under fire. Is this an important moment? It is crucial.

:22:06. > :22:09.The lifeblood of any democracy is the scrutiny of journalists and we

:22:10. > :22:12.have just seen an example of that in your previous section and it is very

:22:13. > :22:17.important that we make sure it is not only journalists fighting this

:22:18. > :22:23.campaign but all of us. And not just about what happens in injured but

:22:24. > :22:28.the world. The BBC treated a response saying that they regretted,

:22:29. > :22:34.devastated, dumbfounded and shattered. We care about this a lot

:22:35. > :22:36.because we know these people. We have worked with them and we can

:22:37. > :22:41.imagine being in their circumstances. Is this a media

:22:42. > :22:46.obsession or is it great that it matters when journalists are treated

:22:47. > :22:51.this way? It is not the media. It is the fact that democracy is under

:22:52. > :22:57.fire from the actions of the courts in Egypt. We must be very concerned

:22:58. > :23:01.about the distance between the judiciary and also the parliament

:23:02. > :23:08.and what is going on in the gym. Obviously the key to a democracy is

:23:09. > :23:10.being able to criticise and broadcast around the world what is

:23:11. > :23:15.happening in their own country. If that is not happening then we must

:23:16. > :23:17.be very concerned. You must be concern about the role that the West

:23:18. > :23:21.is playing in situations like this, we just found out in the last few

:23:22. > :23:24.days that America has almost restored normal international

:23:25. > :23:30.relations with Egypt's even aware of this trial has been ongoing. We are

:23:31. > :23:32.concerned that they are again rearming what was once a

:23:33. > :23:37.democratically elected government but which is showing itself to be

:23:38. > :23:43.using the same types of oppression in the media that has gone before.

:23:44. > :23:45.We must be concerned about the role that Western governments are taking

:23:46. > :23:53.and how they react to the situation. We must take a strong line and

:23:54. > :23:59.encourage the diplomatic restructuring. We will continue to

:24:00. > :24:06.die attention to us. The BBC intends to have one-minute silence and

:24:07. > :24:09.tomorrow. We hear a lot of protests from media organisations but less

:24:10. > :24:14.from the British government. The British and American governments

:24:15. > :24:20.must look at how they handle it. John Kerry announced have $1 billion

:24:21. > :24:26.in military aid. There is about ?50 million worth of militarily

:24:27. > :24:29.economics going on between Britain and Egypt's and we must challenge

:24:30. > :24:36.that. We must change the way in which we make our eight, pushed

:24:37. > :24:43.change. Particularly around developing civic democracy.

:24:44. > :24:49.Let's move on the topic here, there will be a debate between Alex

:24:50. > :24:51.Salmond and Alistair Darling. Salmond had an STV debates

:24:52. > :24:55.disappointingly with Alistair Darling on Scottish independence.

:24:56. > :25:01.This will be a great moment. Who will win? We must stop talking about

:25:02. > :25:05.the debate, although it is balanced of the BBC to advertise the STV

:25:06. > :25:09.debates, because the real debates have been happening not between

:25:10. > :25:16.individuals in a TV experience but right across the country. I chaired

:25:17. > :25:19.by yesterday. That was really good because he got to the nitty-gritty

:25:20. > :25:23.about what people were concerned about and I have seen them across

:25:24. > :25:26.the country. That is the positive thing that has come out of this.

:25:27. > :25:29.That is what we should celebrate as opposed to who will win one

:25:30. > :25:35.conversation between two particular figures. It will be a big moment.

:25:36. > :25:41.The Telegraph said that Alex Salmond is the firm favourite with Ladbrokes

:25:42. > :25:47.odds of 1-2 on Salmond and 6-4 on Alistair Darling. I am disappointed

:25:48. > :25:54.that there is a debate between two men at the top of their game because

:25:55. > :25:57.reading the yes part for the SNP has been Nicola Sturgeon has been

:25:58. > :26:02.excellent. I would have liked to have seen her go head-to-head with

:26:03. > :26:08.someone. In terms of Alistair Darling I think that better together

:26:09. > :26:11.have overplayed it, they did not believe that Alex Salmond would so

:26:12. > :26:15.to speak for himself to debate someone with no legislative power. I

:26:16. > :26:19.think the SNP have been clever about this. Darling is damaged by his own

:26:20. > :26:27.party at the moment, Gordon Brown has undermined some of his

:26:28. > :26:31.proposals. And within better together the Conservatives have

:26:32. > :26:35.kicked contemn as well. At this point in time it could be a clever

:26:36. > :26:47.move by the SNP to clear the deck and take out Alistair Darling in a

:26:48. > :26:54.debate. Takeout Alistair. That then read the situation where they can

:26:55. > :26:57.go, what is the next debate and can be Prime Minister avoids doing that?

:26:58. > :27:02.How will echo what UN has said and that's the big thing has been the

:27:03. > :27:06.democratisation of society. The yes camp has been very open to meetings

:27:07. > :27:10.right across Scotland and there have been many debates which have been

:27:11. > :27:14.some of the most enthusiastic that I have seen in the past two years.

:27:15. > :27:19.Could it be a turning point? I don't. The turning points will be in

:27:20. > :27:26.the individual conversations with people who say you think this and I

:27:27. > :27:29.think that. We cannot build a nation on a conversation between two

:27:30. > :27:33.high-profile figures we must build on building communities and building

:27:34. > :27:38.conversations at a local level. That will make the difference.

:27:39. > :27:40.I'll be back at the same time tomorrow night.

:27:41. > :27:43.In the meantime, you can keep an eye on all the latest developments

:27:44. > :27:46.online with BBC Scotland, including our new live page which gives you

:27:47. > :28:04.When Barbara and I started the Review,

:28:05. > :28:07.we were seeking to examine the workings

:28:08. > :28:11.and the truthfulness of establishments.

:28:12. > :28:17.Albatross? There it is. The albatross.

:28:18. > :28:21.The albatross is going to need a hair-styling.