06/08/2014

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:00:00. > :00:00.Lend us your ears, lend us your votes.

:00:00. > :00:25.The SNP appeal to traditional Labour voters.

:00:26. > :00:29.Yes Scotland know they cannot win the referendum on SNP votes alone.

:00:30. > :00:32.They have to persuade a large number of traditional Labour

:00:33. > :00:35.voters that Scotland should be an independent country.

:00:36. > :00:39.So how are they trying to do that and is it working?

:00:40. > :00:42.Is Trident the referendum's not so secret weapon?

:00:43. > :00:46.Are people voting yes because they want to get rid of the nukes?

:00:47. > :00:49.And we have a special report on how making workers pay to access

:00:50. > :00:57.an employment tribunal has seen an 80% drop in cases.

:00:58. > :01:02.You don't have to be an SNP supporter to vote yes in September.

:01:03. > :01:05.You don't even have to like Alex Salmond or his party.

:01:06. > :01:08.That's the message Yes Scotland are actively trying to take to Labour

:01:09. > :01:14.Tonight Nicola Sturgeon is in Preston Pans and Julie Peacock

:01:15. > :01:23.is there as well to see if her message is getting through.

:01:24. > :01:29.Preston Pans is about as traditionally Labour as it gets. A

:01:30. > :01:35.former mining town, Labour has won more than a 40% share of the vote

:01:36. > :01:38.here in every general election for the last 30 years. But the Yes

:01:39. > :01:41.Campaign has this area in its sights. Of course, it's not the

:01:42. > :01:48.first time Preston Pans has been the scene of a battle over Scotland buzz

:01:49. > :01:53.future. The first conflict of the Jacobite uprising happened here in

:01:54. > :01:57.1745. Things have moved on since the Jacobite hero. You won't be catching

:01:58. > :02:03.Alex Salmond or Alistair Darling slugging it out in the battlefield

:02:04. > :02:10.behind me here. But it is area is like this all over Scotland that are

:02:11. > :02:14.the fiercest fighting over the next few weeks of the campaign. It's full

:02:15. > :02:21.of voters, some of whom are undecided. It is those voters that

:02:22. > :02:26.could swing the result. Nicola Sturgeon even addressed them at the

:02:27. > :02:29.SNP conference. To every Labour voter in the country, I say this,

:02:30. > :02:33.the Yes Campaign is not asking you to leave your party. Instead, it

:02:34. > :02:40.offers you the chance to get your party back. A Labour Party, free to

:02:41. > :02:45.make its own decisions, no longer dancing to a Westminster tune.

:02:46. > :02:48.Tonight, she is bringing that message to Prestonpans. But if the

:02:49. > :02:52.views of the regulars at the British Legion are anything to go by, she's

:02:53. > :03:00.going to need all her powers of persuasion. There is no way I'll be

:03:01. > :03:06.convinced. Nicola Sturgeon, Alex Salmond, if they tried to say

:03:07. > :03:10.anything or try to bribe me by being ?500 better off. I'll listen to what

:03:11. > :03:14.Nicola has to say, listen to the opinions of other people. I'm not

:03:15. > :03:19.decided, but I'm swinging towards yes. I'm sitting on the fence, I'm

:03:20. > :03:23.not sure which way is going to benefit myself, my children. I'd

:03:24. > :03:27.rather somebody just gave me, right, that is yes, that is no for the

:03:28. > :03:32.working man. The SNP have a long history of giving Labour a bloody

:03:33. > :03:37.nose in its own backyard. Hamilton, in 96 to seven. The first SNP

:03:38. > :03:48.parliamentary seat since the war. Winifred Margaret Ewing, 18,395...

:03:49. > :03:52.In 1973, it was Margo MacDonald who swore under the boat in the

:03:53. > :04:02.by-election. The SNP have won the constituency. And here in East

:04:03. > :04:07.Lothian, the SNP have gained ground. There was a huge swing to the SNP.

:04:08. > :04:16.Can Nicola Sturgeon repeat that success here? Preston Pans... Pans

:04:17. > :04:23.is a very Labour town, how confident are you that you will be able to get

:04:24. > :04:27.people to rode yes? A lot of traditional Labour voters are

:04:28. > :04:31.thinking about voting yes, and why wouldn't that be the case? A

:04:32. > :04:37.traditional Labour voter is as unhappy as I am about getting Tory

:04:38. > :04:43.Government we didn't vote for. She was met with cheers and some

:04:44. > :04:49.hackles. This is probably not the best place for you! There were tough

:04:50. > :04:53.questions on the EU and currency, but also plenty of obvious

:04:54. > :04:58.supporters amongst the audience. The debate went on well into the

:04:59. > :05:01.evening, with perhaps some traditional Labour voters being

:05:02. > :05:04.swayed. But can the Yes Campaign persuade enough of them in towns

:05:05. > :05:09.like this across the country to make the difference?

:05:10. > :05:12.With me now in the studio is Bob Thomson, former chair of Scottish

:05:13. > :05:16.Also, former special advisor to Alistair Darling and former Herald

:05:17. > :05:27.Thanks for coming in. You are a traditional Labour voter that has

:05:28. > :05:31.decided to go yes. What changed your mind? The Labour Party was formed by

:05:32. > :05:35.working people to look after their interests and the interests of their

:05:36. > :05:40.family. That is why it is called Labour. Sadly, Labour at Westminster

:05:41. > :05:45.has lost their way and is no longer looking after those interests. You

:05:46. > :05:58.couldn't really put much between the policies of Labour and the

:05:59. > :06:02.Coalition. What I found interesting was that they were describing a

:06:03. > :06:05.similar country, whether it was independent of the United Kingdom.

:06:06. > :06:09.They were talking about social democracy, fairness, ending food

:06:10. > :06:14.banks. When you have people that are broadly looking towards the same

:06:15. > :06:18.social democratic goal, you can see why maybe Labour voters are tempted

:06:19. > :06:21.to vote yes? May be. The truth of the matter is that Alex Salmond

:06:22. > :06:27.didn't like the Labour Party any more than he liked the Tories. The

:06:28. > :06:31.last Labour government took 200,000 pensioners out of poverty, 100,000

:06:32. > :06:36.children out of poverty, it spent more on health, poverty and schools

:06:37. > :06:39.than any previous government. That is a Labour government and that is

:06:40. > :06:45.what a Labour government does. People like Bob, of Bob's

:06:46. > :06:48.generation, icon from them ever talking, when they were in the

:06:49. > :06:52.Labour Party, about saying we are only going to look after ourselves

:06:53. > :06:55.and we are not going to look after other people. That must be one of

:06:56. > :07:02.the key, fundamental principles of the Labour Party, that we care about

:07:03. > :07:06.each other, wherever we live. You sound very disenchanted with the

:07:07. > :07:09.Labour Party today. How can a big Yes Campaign get the message through

:07:10. > :07:13.to people who still see themselves as Labour, if there is an

:07:14. > :07:17.independent Scotland they will vote Micro for a Labour Government, how

:07:18. > :07:24.can you persuade them to vote yes on this occasion? I'm still a member of

:07:25. > :07:28.the party, 51 years a member. I want to reclaim Labour for its socialist

:07:29. > :07:32.principles. I have my card here. It says, the Labour Party, the

:07:33. > :07:38.Democratic Socialist party, I want it to come back to that. I am not

:07:39. > :07:43.supporting the SNP. A yes vote is a vote to give us the opportunity to

:07:44. > :07:46.build a fairer, more prosperous Scotland. Catherine is talking about

:07:47. > :07:52.achievements. The reality is, and people know it, there are more

:07:53. > :07:59.children in poverty, a fourfold increase in food banks and various

:08:00. > :08:02.things. I'm not in favour of SNP policies, I want to see a lot more

:08:03. > :08:08.radical policies about, for example, taxation. What about ringing our

:08:09. > :08:13.railways back into ownership? Tony Blair, famously, boasted that

:08:14. > :08:21.British workers had better rights than any other workers in Europe.

:08:22. > :08:23.Labour in Westminster is saying nothing about these important

:08:24. > :08:28.issues. You are going to have a programme about by the tribunal is

:08:29. > :08:32.and how people no longer have rights at work. It's all very well to talk

:08:33. > :08:35.about what Labour has done in Hollywood or Westminster, if people

:08:36. > :08:39.are not convinced that Ed Miliband is going to win the next general

:08:40. > :08:42.election, then the argument by the Yes Campaign that Scots don't get

:08:43. > :08:46.the government they vote for, regardless how they voted they will

:08:47. > :08:50.get another Tory Government, it's going to resonate with Labour

:08:51. > :08:53.voters? I'm sure it might, it's not a pleasant prospect to think we are

:08:54. > :08:57.not going to get the government that we want. If we vote for

:08:58. > :09:02.independence, it will be for ever. It is not something that can change

:09:03. > :09:05.at the next general election. If there is a Tory Government, and I

:09:06. > :09:11.hope there is not, they can be thrown out in four years time. Ed

:09:12. > :09:16.Miliband, and I think Bob has got to give him credit, is putting forward

:09:17. > :09:22.traditional Labour agendas. He wants to cut energy prices. That is a

:09:23. > :09:23.different argument we will have on another night. Thank you for coming

:09:24. > :09:25.in. The promise that an independent

:09:26. > :09:27.Scotland would be a nuclear free country is one of the central

:09:28. > :09:30.tenants of the Yes campaign. The idea of removing nukes from

:09:31. > :09:33.Scottish soil got loud cheers at the debate last night and never fails to

:09:34. > :09:36.delight the party faithful. But how much does it really

:09:37. > :09:47.matter to the undecided voters? Trident nuclear missiles have been

:09:48. > :09:52.based on the Clyde since the 1960s. But for how much longer? I am for

:09:53. > :09:56.yes because I think the needs of the ordinary people are more important

:09:57. > :09:59.than the needs of the few. I want to protect the NHS, reduce inequality,

:10:00. > :10:04.I want to preserve our environment and get rid of nuclear weapons. We

:10:05. > :10:09.don't want to spend 100 early in pounds on a new generation of

:10:10. > :10:13.nuclear weapons. Is that why Labour people are voting yes? In another

:10:14. > :10:17.debate today, referendum lines were drawn as the fate of Scotland and

:10:18. > :10:22.Trident were linked. As part of the UK, we are able to defend our own

:10:23. > :10:27.nation, our citizens and influence international debate. We all want a

:10:28. > :10:34.nuclear free world, but the unilateral removal of Trident is not

:10:35. > :10:38.the way to achievement. -- achieve it. We believe it could only be

:10:39. > :10:42.achieved at the expense of traditional defence programmes. On

:10:43. > :10:45.the 18th of September, vote for independence and for the withdrawal

:10:46. > :10:49.of Trident from Scotland, or leave that decision to the UK Government

:10:50. > :10:57.and face the possibility of another half-century of nuclear weapons. Is

:10:58. > :11:02.the talk about the future of Trident preaching to the converted or could

:11:03. > :11:05.change the way people cast their vote?

:11:06. > :11:07.Joining me now is Political Correspondent

:11:08. > :11:16.How much do you think Trident matters? It matters a lot to the

:11:17. > :11:23.party faithful in the SNP, very wedded to this policy and that is

:11:24. > :11:28.why it gets loud cheers. It hold sway with voters? The SNP see it as

:11:29. > :11:31.something distinctive and is different that you would get in an

:11:32. > :11:34.independent Scotland. I think it does appeal to people on the left,

:11:35. > :11:38.maybe some Labour voters that you were talking about might be

:11:39. > :11:43.attracted to independence. I think the SNP know that. It is worth

:11:44. > :11:47.mentioning that there are a lot of people on the Labour benches at

:11:48. > :11:51.Holyrood that are not so keen on nuclear weapons. I think it is very

:11:52. > :11:55.far from being an issue that is solely the SNP's. There were a

:11:56. > :11:59.number of contradictions in their policies, such as support for an

:12:00. > :12:05.independent Scotland being in NATO, a nuclear alliance. As I was saying,

:12:06. > :12:11.you could argue, in many ways, Labour has a much stronger tradition

:12:12. > :12:15.of anti-nuclear weapons, even though it is a long time since Labour has

:12:16. > :12:18.been a unilateralist party. There are a lot of people of that view in

:12:19. > :12:24.the party. That interesting, because it hasn't been party policy for the

:12:25. > :12:28.Labour Party for a long time. You forget that large swathes of them

:12:29. > :12:34.probably are antinuclear, probably went on CMD marches. You think this

:12:35. > :12:38.is a way to reach into the labour heartland? Some people will be

:12:39. > :12:41.attracted, saying, this will be something that is different, we

:12:42. > :12:45.won't have to put up with nuclear weapons. It might be the same people

:12:46. > :12:48.that might be tempted to vote yes on the basis of not facing a Tory

:12:49. > :12:55.Government again. The SNP know that, they are giving that the hard

:12:56. > :12:59.sell. Stay with us, we are going to be talking to you again later.

:13:00. > :13:02.Employment tribunals exist to allow any who thinks they have faced

:13:03. > :13:04.discrimination or harassment at work to take their bosses to task.

:13:05. > :13:08.But in the last year there has been a startling 80% drop in number

:13:09. > :13:10.of people bringing cases against their employers.

:13:11. > :13:13.Can it be a coincidence that it was also a year ago that the Government

:13:14. > :13:16.introduced a system of fees that mean claimants must pay

:13:17. > :13:22.hundreds of pounds before their cases can be heard?

:13:23. > :13:26.Our political correspondent Lucy Adams reports.

:13:27. > :13:33.This is where you would come to seek justice if you have suffered unfair

:13:34. > :13:39.dismissal or discover nation on the grounds of race, gender or age.

:13:40. > :13:43.Changes introduced a year ago by the UK Government mean that to even get

:13:44. > :13:48.here you have to pay. That has not just deterred only some people, but

:13:49. > :13:52.80% of claimants. Unlike the thousands of other victims of unfair

:13:53. > :13:58.employment practices forced to drop their cases because they can't even

:13:59. > :14:02.logic, Gillian was able to go to tribunal because her solicitor

:14:03. > :14:05.covered the costs. It got to the point where I was suffering from

:14:06. > :14:10.work-related stress and depression. I sent a letter to my boss of the

:14:11. > :14:16.time and said, I felt like I was under attack at work, I felt I was

:14:17. > :14:20.being bullied. That I had no choice but to leave. My lawyer said he

:14:21. > :14:23.would put the money forward and I can pay in instalments. If he hadn't

:14:24. > :14:27.done that, and I said to him at the time, if he couldn't do that, there

:14:28. > :14:38.would be no way I could take them to court. Scottish is for

:14:39. > :14:48.straightforward changes, the cost is ?319. For more complex cases the

:14:49. > :14:53.basic cost is ?1200. The government figures show that thousands fewer

:14:54. > :14:58.cases are taking because of the fees system. This affects the working

:14:59. > :15:04.population of the UK. They have already paid. When you have just

:15:05. > :15:10.lost your job and are facing discrimination and then you have to

:15:11. > :15:15.find ?1200, just to protect your legal position, it is not

:15:16. > :15:21.proportionate. It is challenging access to government which has been

:15:22. > :15:26.free up till now. A new study by Strathclyde University has found the

:15:27. > :15:30.change means victims, especially disabled, low paid and female

:15:31. > :15:38.workers, have to drop out of the system. Our research proves that the

:15:39. > :15:47.most affected claimants are women overall. That is something like 80%

:15:48. > :15:53.of production in sex discrimination cases which are mostly blog by

:15:54. > :15:57.women. Overall we are seeing the impact of fees acting on justice for

:15:58. > :16:06.some of the most from rouble workers in society. Chris Grayling brought

:16:07. > :16:13.the changes one year ago citing the 74 million cost of the tribunal

:16:14. > :16:18.system. This was supported by some employers associations. Today the

:16:19. > :16:22.CBI declined to be interviewed but be told this programme that firms

:16:23. > :16:38.have been frustrated for years by both delays in the system and false

:16:39. > :16:46.and misleading claims... Academics disagree. There have always been

:16:47. > :16:49.vexatious claims. I am sure employers can give examples but the

:16:50. > :16:59.big picture does not pack up that assertion. There is no research to

:17:00. > :17:07.suggest that there is fallen claims. It would be beyond the realms of

:17:08. > :17:12.possibility that the 80% reduction is that 80% of all claims were

:17:13. > :17:21.spurious or vector stations. That is just ridiculous. The Law Society of

:17:22. > :17:27.Scotland found that spurious claimants will already dealt with

:17:28. > :17:34.using other measures. They warned that the new policy was flawed

:17:35. > :17:39.before it was introduced. When fees were first canvas, we wrote to the

:17:40. > :17:42.Justice Minister of the Westminster Government in March 2012 expressing

:17:43. > :17:50.concerns about this policy. We were concerned about the policy of

:17:51. > :17:55.itself, we challenged whether there was any evidence for the policy

:17:56. > :18:00.itself and we express the view that it seemed that it would be

:18:01. > :18:08.disproportionately adverse to the interests of workers. As a

:18:09. > :18:14.consequence of the recently issued government statistics, we believe

:18:15. > :18:16.those concerns have been vindicated. The BBC understands Scottish

:18:17. > :18:22.employment tribunal judges have no express their own concerns about

:18:23. > :18:26.whether the fees system is legally sound. As of tonight, the UK

:18:27. > :18:31.Government is holding firm on its policy but the question remains. Is

:18:32. > :18:33.it a tough stand against false claims on an attack on victims

:18:34. > :18:36.already suffering? Joining me in the studio is

:18:37. > :18:40.Ian Tasker from the Scottish Trade Union Congress and, from our studio

:18:41. > :18:50.in London, solicitor Sarah Chilton It cannot be a coincidence there has

:18:51. > :18:56.been such a drop-off in tribunal cases as the fees came in, if it

:18:57. > :19:02.putting people off? I think it is. That is an inevitable consequence of

:19:03. > :19:08.bringing in charge for the claim. It is worrying that it will put off

:19:09. > :19:13.some of the nuisance claims but unfortunately it will also put off

:19:14. > :19:18.or preventing genuine claimants from bringing their claims as it has been

:19:19. > :19:24.putting off nuisance claimants as well. There were always nuisance

:19:25. > :19:29.claimants and businesses don't have to deal with them now? Makes dead to

:19:30. > :19:39.which there were spurious claims has been over played. -- I think the

:19:40. > :19:44.extent to which. This is about getting money into the tribunal

:19:45. > :19:50.system. Even in that objective it has failed. They wanted to recover

:19:51. > :20:00.33% of the course. The fees they have brought in, extortionate as

:20:01. > :20:05.they are, only recover less than 7%. So the tribunal system would be

:20:06. > :20:09.priced out of everyone's Access. The Ministry of Justice did not want to

:20:10. > :20:13.come on the programme. But they told us they have worked hard to make

:20:14. > :20:20.sure that our fee waivers by people who cannot afford them. Is that

:20:21. > :20:25.system not working? That our fee waivers but what is coming through

:20:26. > :20:30.that for whatever reason, that system which is complicated, is not

:20:31. > :20:35.always working with shoot. It is clear that even amongst lawyers

:20:36. > :20:41.representing claimants, some of the lawyers are saying the system is

:20:42. > :20:47.complex. It is just stacking more against that claimants. Whilst fee

:20:48. > :20:52.waivers are good idea, you have to make sure that the level and

:20:53. > :20:58.complexity of that system are set properly to give the desired effect.

:20:59. > :21:04.Could the union not to pay these fees for people? Presumably if you

:21:05. > :21:10.win, you get the feedback again. On the wall, the trade unions are

:21:11. > :21:13.paying the fees. Having access to union representation and advice also

:21:14. > :21:23.deals with some people's aspirations. If the claim is not

:21:24. > :21:28.genuine and it turns into a spurious claim, that could be because they

:21:29. > :21:33.have not had access to the advice to point them in the right direction as

:21:34. > :21:39.to whether they have a legitimate complaint. That is one of the

:21:40. > :21:44.advantages of being a member. It manages expectations. People who do

:21:45. > :21:51.not have access to that kind of professional advice, I think they

:21:52. > :21:57.lose out. A huge drop in the number of cases, 80% fewer, but we do see

:21:58. > :22:03.more mediation. If people can mediate without the tribunal and are

:22:04. > :22:10.motivated to do so, that is a good thing for all concerned? Definitely.

:22:11. > :22:14.One of the things we have seen more recently, from April this year, the

:22:15. > :22:24.introduction of the conciliation scheme. Now a claimant must go to

:22:25. > :22:28.that scheme before they can bring a tribunal claim. What we have

:22:29. > :22:34.understood from discussions is that that system is working to an extent

:22:35. > :22:39.so I think mediation is a great thing if we can get claims to stay

:22:40. > :22:48.out of the tribunal system most peoples are winners. Now let's look

:22:49. > :22:57.at the headlines around the world tonight.

:22:58. > :23:02.The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, is making headlines on both sides of

:23:03. > :23:06.the Atlantic. The New York Times reports his intention of becoming an

:23:07. > :23:10.MP. Officials in Cairo begin to

:23:11. > :23:19.negotiate between representatives of Israel and Hamas. And ABC News

:23:20. > :23:22.report says that the Rosetta spacecraft has arrived at as

:23:23. > :23:30.speeding comet to begin mapping its surface.

:23:31. > :23:34.Joining me now to talk through the rest of the day's news are

:23:35. > :23:36.the Scotsman's Andrew Whitaker who we spoke to earlier, and Director

:23:37. > :23:47.Thank you both for coming in. The political news electrifying

:23:48. > :23:52.Westminster, Boris Johnson's seeing he does want a seat as an MP after

:23:53. > :23:56.all. He has been teasing the political establishment for months.

:23:57. > :24:02.Does this tell as he wants to become Prime Minister? I think it is an

:24:03. > :24:06.conceivable that someone with the ambition of Boris Johnson would not

:24:07. > :24:11.go over the top job or at least in delivering the top job for someone

:24:12. > :24:16.else. This man considers he has one of the biggest mandates in the UK,

:24:17. > :24:21.having been elected by the people in London. I think it is worth looking

:24:22. > :24:25.at the other side of Boris Johnson. This man tries to put himself across

:24:26. > :24:32.as those lovable, bumbling public schoolboy. Look back a few years ago

:24:33. > :24:35.to when he spoke about the people of Liverpool and referred to them as

:24:36. > :24:43.wallowing in their grief in reference to the Hillsborough

:24:44. > :24:50.tragedy. He ate some fairly large pieces of humble pie in Liverpool.

:24:51. > :24:55.Yes, he did but it says something about his attitude to working-class

:24:56. > :25:04.people. There have been Tweets about his limitless ambition. He mentions

:25:05. > :25:09.that the White House is vacant. Can you see in this play minister of the

:25:10. > :25:15.UK? I think possibly I could. What is attractive about borders is that

:25:16. > :25:27.he is not of an LR politician. He has character and people respond to

:25:28. > :25:33.that. -- vanilla. He has been elected in London. David Cameron

:25:34. > :25:36.says he is delighted to have them back in the House of Commons, you

:25:37. > :25:41.has to see that but will he be pleased or angry? I think some

:25:42. > :25:48.figures in the Tory party will be thinking, all gods, do we really

:25:49. > :25:53.need this? People like Michael Gove will see him as a potential

:25:54. > :26:01.leadership rival for the future. Some will think that his presence

:26:02. > :26:07.but will not want his grandstanding. We are no sooner passed their Alex

:26:08. > :26:11.Salmond and Alistair Darling debate last night and there seems to be

:26:12. > :26:21.another win. There has been a tweet about the BBC debate on the 25th of

:26:22. > :26:24.August. Both men will come away from last night knowing that there were a

:26:25. > :26:29.few things that could have done differently. How do you think they

:26:30. > :26:34.will approach another debate? I think we will see a very different

:26:35. > :26:41.Alex Salmond to begin with. What struck me was I was surprised just

:26:42. > :26:50.how badly Alexander had. It was clear he was second best. -- Alex

:26:51. > :26:55.Salmond did. He was topped up a great deal. Not just that he would

:26:56. > :26:59.defeat Alistair Darling, but he would do so comfortably. That did

:27:00. > :27:04.not happen and he will look to put that right. That man is a political

:27:05. > :27:09.streetfighter and you will see a different approach, there will have

:27:10. > :27:17.been recriminations in his office today. Alistair Darling will be a

:27:18. > :27:20.weird he had to up his game if he is to retain his lead. You say you are

:27:21. > :27:24.undecided, it did last night help you make up your mind? Now, in

:27:25. > :27:29.common with a lot of undecided voters, that is the level of

:27:30. > :27:34.frustration. When people are interviewed in the street he asked

:27:35. > :27:39.for more facts. There will not be more facts between now and September

:27:40. > :27:45.the 15th. Will the format of the debate make a difference? Our

:27:46. > :27:50.viewers have been tweeting that they would like the politicians to

:27:51. > :27:56.Amsterdam and questions. Focus on one thing, drill down and answer

:27:57. > :28:01.those questions. But that happened? It would be much better. The bit

:28:02. > :28:06.which worked better was when a cross examined each other. Questions could

:28:07. > :28:15.have been answered rather than repeatedly dodged. What about the

:28:16. > :28:19.answers voters are looking for? Some of the suggestions about being more

:28:20. > :28:25.firm about them and feeding questions would work. I like the

:28:26. > :28:32.adversarial approach myself. Thanks for that. Join us again tomorrow.

:28:33. > :29:03.MUSIC: "Changing" by Sigma feat. Paloma Faith