20/08/2014

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:00:00. > :00:08.You are clearly a BBC viewer and we are delighted you are

:00:09. > :00:12.Stay tuned to find out what would happen to the Beeb if there is a Yes

:00:13. > :00:33.The Scottish government have promised that in an independent

:00:34. > :00:35.Scotland you will still be able to watch all your favourite BBC

:00:36. > :00:38.programmes and that you wont pay any more for your licence fee.

:00:39. > :00:41.So, even though it is a little awkward to be

:00:42. > :00:43.talking about ourselves, tonight we will examine how much difference

:00:44. > :00:48.a Yes vote would make to the British Broadcasting Corporation.

:00:49. > :00:51.The Labour MP Jim Murphy is touring 100 Scottish towns campaigning

:00:52. > :00:56.Saying he doesn't want to have to choose between being Scottish

:00:57. > :01:07.We'll be debating national identity and its role in referendum with him

:01:08. > :01:09.And we investigate the unofficial government websites

:01:10. > :01:14.which could be costing Scots hundreds of thousands of pounds.

:01:15. > :01:20.Amidst all the talk of currency options and the future oil revenues

:01:21. > :01:23.today it's Dr Who at the centre of the referendum debate.

:01:24. > :01:25.Will you still be able to watch his adventures

:01:26. > :01:28.in an independent Scotland without having to use a Tardis yourself?

:01:29. > :01:31.Better Together have launched an attack on the Scottish

:01:32. > :01:32.government's plans for broadcasting in an independent Scotland.

:01:33. > :01:35.Saying they would break up the BBC and leave audiences paying more

:01:36. > :01:38.But those campaigning for independence are predicting

:01:39. > :01:40.high ratings for the new Scottish Broadcasting Service and

:01:41. > :01:49.Laura Maxwell's been looking at their arguments:

:01:50. > :01:58.This is direct television. Scots have a long and close relationship

:01:59. > :02:04.with broadcasting. From the inventor of TV, to the founder of the BBC,

:02:05. > :02:10.the Scot Lord Reith. The corporation has come a long way, like East

:02:11. > :02:16.Enders and strictly coming dancing pulling massive TV audiences. Of all

:02:17. > :02:21.the issues being raised towards next month 's folk, broadcasting is

:02:22. > :02:26.getting the least attention. It is ironic given almost every house in

:02:27. > :02:31.the country has a radio, TV and computer. Would broadcasting be

:02:32. > :02:34.safer within the UK or under an independent Scotland? If there is a

:02:35. > :02:38.yes vote, what would a Scottish broadcasting service look like? Not

:02:39. > :02:43.great according to pro union campaigns. Better Together are

:02:44. > :02:48.warning independence would be devastating for television. What

:02:49. > :02:54.they are reporting is that if we withdraw, we would have to pay for

:02:55. > :03:00.the services that we currently get. Scottish bid 300 million into the

:03:01. > :03:03.BBC in terms of a licensing fee and we get billions of programmes out of

:03:04. > :03:09.it and I think that is a better deal. Not so, according to the First

:03:10. > :03:12.Minister. With the new Scottish broadcasting system sharing

:03:13. > :03:18.resources with the BBC it would produce more production and Scott

:03:19. > :03:23.would get to value. Only a fraction of the money is spent in Scotland in

:03:24. > :03:26.the present moment so we have the licence fee supporting Scottish

:03:27. > :03:29.broadcasting which creates more jobs and more programmes for the people

:03:30. > :03:35.of Scotland to watch and enjoy. But what about the audience? All voters

:03:36. > :03:40.as politicians say? Scotland has been a big part in the BBC and I

:03:41. > :03:45.would not like to lose that. On a local scale, I would have far more

:03:46. > :03:51.trust. In local journalists than journalists in England. Whether it

:03:52. > :03:59.would impact my life I am not sure. Like I said, a lot of people have

:04:00. > :04:04.sky and Sky News, so. I'm the Doctor, I've lived for over 2000

:04:05. > :04:08.years. One thing for certain, broadcasting, just like the Doctor

:04:09. > :04:11.is constantly reinventing itself. Just how long the current version

:04:12. > :04:13.will stay with us will not be clear until after the referendum.

:04:14. > :04:15.Joining me now is Labour's Shadow Secretary of State

:04:16. > :04:20.And from Yes Scotland, Blair Jenkins.

:04:21. > :04:28.Let me ask you Blair, the former director-general of the BBC said

:04:29. > :04:31.your plans for the Scottish podcasting service and the BBC are

:04:32. > :04:37.essentially swapping programmes was make-believe? There is a long record

:04:38. > :04:41.of him not understanding Scotland so that should come as no surprise.

:04:42. > :04:46.What we can do in an independent Scotland is what viewers want. This

:04:47. > :04:50.is access to BBC programmes, there is no scenario in which we won't

:04:51. > :04:54.have that. Also to create a great many more Scottish programmes which

:04:55. > :04:58.we know the Scottish audience one. They'll be more programmes, more

:04:59. > :05:03.jobs and a better service. Will we have definite access to the BBC? I

:05:04. > :05:06.do think you can get the guarantee at all. It is not a credible

:05:07. > :05:12.argument and has been backed up by independent experts. It is not

:05:13. > :05:15.credible that will get the same range and quality of services

:05:16. > :05:18.without contributing anything at all to that. Yet again, it is the

:05:19. > :05:31.uncosted and untested promises we are getting from the BBC. -- yes

:05:32. > :05:37.scholar not the BBC sorry. In that report, you said, that the BBC was

:05:38. > :05:41.the pillar of public service broadcasting and that every country

:05:42. > :05:47.once you have. But he once put Scotland out of that. Let me as Q

:05:48. > :05:50.how that would work Blair? You're going to have the rest of the BBC

:05:51. > :05:55.and Scotland will have 10% less funding, it is going to have to try

:05:56. > :05:58.and sell is programmes for as much money as possible to make the

:05:59. > :06:04.funding gap which will cost quite a lot? There are lots of international

:06:05. > :06:08.benchmarks in comparisons. The cost would be relatively small. The very

:06:09. > :06:13.large amount of money from licensing fee in Scotland has been race. The

:06:14. > :06:16.Scottish broadcasting system recommend a dedicated Scottish

:06:17. > :06:21.channel which was supported by all the parties in Scottish Parliament.

:06:22. > :06:26.It has not happened because all power over Scottish media remains in

:06:27. > :06:31.Westminster. This is interesting while anti-independence parties are

:06:32. > :06:35.giving contradictory notions of revolution, none are suggesting

:06:36. > :06:40.devolved broadcasting. If you look at what happens inside the BBC,

:06:41. > :06:43.there is a devolution which says certain numbers programme have to

:06:44. > :06:48.come from all around. A large number of programmes are commissioned in

:06:49. > :06:51.the Scotland. The BBC would not enter commission things in Scotland

:06:52. > :06:56.any more which would put a lot of independent people out of work. The

:06:57. > :07:01.BBC will have financial issues and the budgets are being cut so the BBC

:07:02. > :07:04.will have an incentive to co-commission with a new public

:07:05. > :07:09.service broadcaster. It'd make perfect sense. Most of high-value

:07:10. > :07:14.productions are coproductions funded by more than one broadcaster which

:07:15. > :07:16.is an exciting opportunity for Scottish producers. On any scenario

:07:17. > :07:24.that the tens of millions more pounds spent. But you just cannot

:07:25. > :07:30.guarantee that. We would be pulling out of the BBC. Currently the BBC

:07:31. > :07:36.networks Benz 10.8% in Scotland. That is more than our population. We

:07:37. > :07:41.do not have that guarantee after independence. We cannot accept an

:07:42. > :07:46.argument or a proposal that says we will get all of the benefits and

:07:47. > :07:50.keep all the licence fee money, more money and more jobs, that makes no

:07:51. > :07:55.sense. What he is changing is the relationship that we currently have

:07:56. > :08:00.as part of the BBC which which would change it to a commercial

:08:01. > :08:03.relationship. On a budget of 250 mill in would get a less service. We

:08:04. > :08:05.have to leave it there. Joining me now

:08:06. > :08:09.from London is Guardian columnist and presenter of the BBC Radio 4

:08:10. > :08:19.Media Show, Steve Hewlett. Thank you Steve. As you listen to

:08:20. > :08:25.these arguments about a Scottish broadcasting service my work does it

:08:26. > :08:33.sound feasible to you? The truth is, nobody knows. On the face of it, the

:08:34. > :08:38.numbers do not add up. I can see a perfectly plausible scenario west

:08:39. > :08:41.people in Scotland can have it all. A new broadcasting service and the

:08:42. > :08:47.existing BBC. I just do not see how you can do it for the money.

:08:48. > :08:51.Roughly, back of a cigarette packet, 230 million in Scottish licensing

:08:52. > :08:56.fees. Money spent on programmes in Scotland plus network commissions

:08:57. > :08:59.from Scotland, between about two widget milling, this does not

:09:00. > :09:06.include the cost of broadcasting in Scotland. This does not include any

:09:07. > :09:09.allowance for what Scotland may be contributing phrase share of the BBC

:09:10. > :09:16.global or international new services. This leaves you with a 100

:09:17. > :09:20.million or slightly less. Now Blair's own report when he came with

:09:21. > :09:25.the Scottish broadcasting service, reckon it would cost 75 million to

:09:26. > :09:31.run. This means that, the numbers only stacker provided there is no

:09:32. > :09:36.commercial value at all. No value put on any other BBC services. I

:09:37. > :09:40.just do not see how you can do it. I don't know that what is necessarily

:09:41. > :09:42.staring down the barrel of apocalypse, but do not and are

:09:43. > :09:50.messed to Dechawat I interviewed Alexandre in Edinburgh

:09:51. > :09:58.at a television Festival and he said, let us call this the Edinburgh

:09:59. > :10:02.declaration. He said East Enders will be safe with us. He made light

:10:03. > :10:06.of it and you know he is a great character. He did brilliantly but

:10:07. > :10:12.the underlying message was, if voters go phrase second that they

:10:13. > :10:18.might lose BBC programmes that they value, that might have an impact on

:10:19. > :10:22.how they vote. It is not for me to say. I sit down here and merely look

:10:23. > :10:27.at these things. I have no skin in this game. I'm not saying you cannot

:10:28. > :10:31.have everything, I suspect you cannot have everything unless you up

:10:32. > :10:35.paying more for it and that is apolitical difficulty. As you know

:10:36. > :10:39.better than I do, the yes campaign are insisting you can have it all

:10:40. > :10:50.for the same price. Thank you very much. Blair you insist the licence

:10:51. > :10:53.fee would not go battle? I think there's absolutely no question that

:10:54. > :10:57.we can afford to have our own national broadcasting. That just

:10:58. > :10:58.does not add up. Thank you very much.

:10:59. > :11:01.Now, you may remember that a couple of weeks ago we ran

:11:02. > :11:04.an authored film by leading SNP MP Pete Wishart examining the often

:11:05. > :11:07.Well, tonight, it's the turn of the other side.

:11:08. > :11:11.With less than a month to go before Scots cast their vote, Labour MP Jim

:11:12. > :11:14.Murphy, a former Secretary of State for Scotland, gives his personal

:11:15. > :11:16.take on Scottishness and Britishness and explains why he doesnt want to

:11:17. > :11:30.If you want to vote no thanks, do not let nationalist minorities drown

:11:31. > :11:39.out the silence and quiet page of the majority.

:11:40. > :11:43.CROWD CLAPPING For the past three months I have

:11:44. > :11:53.been debating the referendum across Scotland. It is street politics,

:11:54. > :11:59.just me and a microphone. There has been passion on both sides but it

:12:00. > :12:04.also reminds Lee how culturally complex Scotland is.

:12:05. > :12:15.This is where I spend most of my early years. In Glasgow's south side

:12:16. > :12:20.much has changed. The local Co-op is long gone and it is now a Polish

:12:21. > :12:25.deli. Down the road lies Scotland's biggest Muslim and Jewish

:12:26. > :12:29.communities. So me different identities is the story Scotland. I

:12:30. > :12:36.do not seem the logic of one identity over the others. Most of us

:12:37. > :12:45.are constable being British. -- constable. Today I meeting a young

:12:46. > :12:50.woman who I know feels really strong about her identity. One of the

:12:51. > :12:54.remarkable things is the way we are connected across the UK with

:12:55. > :13:02.families having multiple identities, what is your experience

:13:03. > :13:05.as someone who is voting? I just have too maintained while I am

:13:06. > :13:12.completely Scottish I am also British. I feel both equally. My mum

:13:13. > :13:18.is English and my dad is Scottish. I am half and half. My brother is in

:13:19. > :13:24.London and I feel like my identity is shared and I do not see why I

:13:25. > :13:32.have tea at 18 years have to pick a side. And when Scotland play

:13:33. > :13:33.England, who do you cheerful? It depends who I'm watching it with.

:13:34. > :13:46.LAUGHING Whitehall 's most senior civil

:13:47. > :13:50.servant is voting against independence but he has wrestled

:13:51. > :13:57.with Scottish and British identity his entire career so what is his

:13:58. > :14:01.take? Most people in Scotland think of themselves as Scots. But three

:14:02. > :14:06.quarters think of themselves as British to some degree or other.

:14:07. > :14:13.What I think is happening is people are taking for granted they are

:14:14. > :14:14.both. In recent years we have been concentrating on improving

:14:15. > :14:20.Scotland's reputation and in creating a parliament. When we are

:14:21. > :14:29.faced with a choice, if you want to give up Britain, accurate member

:14:30. > :14:32.being British is who they are. At the heart of shaping the Scottish

:14:33. > :14:40.identity, there has been the River Clyde. This is the river who brought

:14:41. > :14:44.other cultures into Scotland. Far too many face racism and

:14:45. > :14:50.sectarianism, but it was a waterway that helped Scotland become a

:14:51. > :14:54.diverse place. Glasgow is a city not without its Gaza but this is the

:14:55. > :14:58.River that gave its shape. It is also the first thing that

:14:59. > :15:03.generations of immigrants found. When they brought multiple

:15:04. > :15:08.identities. Part of the river 's identity is a sense of working-class

:15:09. > :15:12.pride. Men and women and a sense of industrial heritage. Liverpool and

:15:13. > :15:19.the Mersey, Glasgow and the Clyde are synonymous with that. It is

:15:20. > :15:30.fitting that on the banks of the Clyde, I meeting a ship Yard Stewart

:15:31. > :15:37.who is a passionate Scott. It is a great honour to be working part of

:15:38. > :15:42.the shipyard heritage. To be part of watching ships being built by your

:15:43. > :15:46.own hands, your own mates hands, it gives a great sense of satisfaction

:15:47. > :15:51.and pride because of the toil that went into those ships. I would hate

:15:52. > :15:59.to see that go. I would hate to be turning round to say I used to be

:16:00. > :16:11.part of the Clyde shipyard. That ship Yard being the last shipyard

:16:12. > :16:16.would not be something I would like. In the end, when you strip away

:16:17. > :16:18.everything else, what I am saying is pretty straightforward. Modern

:16:19. > :16:22.Scotland is a melting pot of identities. Generations have come

:16:23. > :16:26.here and brought the language, culture, food and identity and made

:16:27. > :16:31.our country more prosperous and diverse. We share one thing in

:16:32. > :16:35.common whether we were born here or came here, and that is a lot of our

:16:36. > :16:41.nation. We also see things across the island, north and south. A

:16:42. > :16:48.shield history. What sense does it make in the modern world to be

:16:49. > :16:49.forced into a false choice of being Scottish or British when we can be

:16:50. > :16:52.bought? -- both. Well, Jim joins me now

:16:53. > :16:59.in the studio along with Yes Pat Kane, you spend a lot of time in

:17:00. > :17:04.England and consider yourself to have some kind of British identity

:17:05. > :17:09.as well as Scottish one. If there is a yes vote, would you have to choose

:17:10. > :17:14.between them? I am not as interested in Britishness as I am Englishness,

:17:15. > :17:21.Scottishness Irish and wealth. -- Welsh. One of the things I have

:17:22. > :17:28.always been terribly idealistic about 40 yes vote is that, actually,

:17:29. > :17:34.we have to think of our governance. I too a lot in England. I have done

:17:35. > :17:39.that for 25 years. It is a hugely diverse country and there are a lot

:17:40. > :17:44.of different areas. I am not anti-British but I am not a big fan

:17:45. > :17:55.of the great, punch above our weight, part of Britishness. We can

:17:56. > :17:59.make things more modest and go forward with a different identity.

:18:00. > :18:04.Would Britishness disappear? Lots of Scandinavians lived in independence

:18:05. > :18:09.countries who consider themselves Scandinavian as well as their own

:18:10. > :18:13.nationality. There is no unique Scottish identity in the same way

:18:14. > :18:23.that Pat said there is no unique English identity. I do not want a --

:18:24. > :18:27.romanticise this idea. We did not ask those people who came, no matter

:18:28. > :18:31.where they came from, we did not ask them to leave and deposit their

:18:32. > :18:35.identity, their culture, food or language at the side of the dock.

:18:36. > :18:40.Those people brought an identity and added to the sense of Scottishness.

:18:41. > :18:43.The peculiar thing about the referendum is that it is the first

:18:44. > :18:49.time we have been asked to remove one of identities. The Irish, the

:18:50. > :18:54.Lithuanians, everyone brought a richness. That sense of adding to an

:18:55. > :18:57.identity. And yet we are being asked to remove ourselves from one. Most

:18:58. > :19:03.Scots are Scottish first but are in some way been comfortable as British

:19:04. > :19:06.as well. Not to remove British identity but set it back a little

:19:07. > :19:13.bit so that we can focus on Scottish. We adding to identities,

:19:14. > :19:19.which is a European and global identity. An old phrase was stop the

:19:20. > :19:23.world, we want to get on. That was a reason for independence. I think

:19:24. > :19:27.this fits with a multicultural idea of Scottishness. If all the world is

:19:28. > :19:32.in Scotland, that makes sense for Scotland to become independent and

:19:33. > :19:34.be in the wider world and have that conversation about Scottishness with

:19:35. > :19:39.other people in the family of nations as a nation. So the general

:19:40. > :19:45.identity, and I have an Irish background, I have a Polish

:19:46. > :19:52.grandfather somewhere, and I remember the great moment in 1982

:19:53. > :19:57.when McIlvanney said we are a mongrel tradition. But I simply do

:19:58. > :20:04.not see why that diversity cannot support a strong bid for

:20:05. > :20:08.independence. First of all, the UK is a multinational state in itself.

:20:09. > :20:13.Pat is articulate, but I just did not agree. His argument is wrong in

:20:14. > :20:17.that the idea that you can vote for independence and vote to leave the

:20:18. > :20:22.UK state and leave the British state and yet some way still be British...

:20:23. > :20:26.When Ireland got independence, Ireland was fiercely not British. If

:20:27. > :20:31.Catalonia gets its independence from Spain, they are not Spanish. So the

:20:32. > :20:35.idea we can vote remove yourself from the social, political and

:20:36. > :20:38.economic union from the -- of the UK and some with the British, we are

:20:39. > :20:45.choosing to break that tradition. We're choosing voluntarily to remove

:20:46. > :20:50.that identity. Particularly young people, who live in a social media

:20:51. > :20:53.age, they do not understand this. Did you not think it was beautiful

:20:54. > :20:56.when we had the recent exchanges between the Irish and British

:20:57. > :21:01.governments? The Queen standing next to Martin McGuinness... It was

:21:02. > :21:10.brilliant watching the Scots cheering on the English at Hampden!

:21:11. > :21:12.We have to leave it there, now we have found something we agree on.

:21:13. > :21:16.Thank you very much for that. Many of us know what it's like to

:21:17. > :21:19.have a last-minute passport panic Well,

:21:20. > :21:22.the Passport Office has been having a panic all summer long, with months

:21:23. > :21:25.of backlogs and strike action. The Scottish Business Resilience

:21:26. > :21:29.Centre says more and more people are being caught out by unofficial

:21:30. > :21:31.websites who offer passport services or by sites which are identical

:21:32. > :21:42.clones of Government ones. I did a Google search and came up

:21:43. > :21:56.with the website called British passport services. I am always quite

:21:57. > :21:58.reassured when I see a .org website. That sinking feeling when your

:21:59. > :22:07.passport has to be renewed just before you fly. This man felt he had

:22:08. > :22:12.been joked. He paid a company more than ?100 simply for arranging --

:22:13. > :22:15.arranging an appointment. I was waiting in the Passport Office, busy

:22:16. > :22:22.as always. I saw some signs on the wall saying, please make sure you

:22:23. > :22:30.only use an official website. I thought, imagine being filled by

:22:31. > :22:34.that. At that point I realised I was probably going to have to pay for my

:22:35. > :22:37.passport again. Your guard is down when you are under pressure with

:22:38. > :22:39.regards to time. You want to get everything done as quickly as

:22:40. > :22:44.possible. All you're thinking about is getting the passport in your hand

:22:45. > :22:49.by the time you depart. The company told the BBC that it made clear on

:22:50. > :22:54.their website that they are an independent service. That fees paid

:22:55. > :23:00.to them are separate to passport fees and they are not the Government

:23:01. > :23:05.website. Agency selling passport services are something the Passport

:23:06. > :23:10.Office ASDA, we're all. Like and Gavin's situation, it is not against

:23:11. > :23:14.the law. This man helps Government and business combat cyber crime but

:23:15. > :23:27.can only act when a crime has been committed. -- the Passport Office

:23:28. > :23:29.are we're of. The way the wording is, they are not committing a

:23:30. > :23:35.criminal offence. But some websites are simply cloning and are almost a

:23:36. > :23:38.form of hacking or malware and are used for criminal purposes. Cloning

:23:39. > :23:43.is entirely different to what Gavin experienced. No-one likes feeling

:23:44. > :23:49.they have been shipped. But now we are discovering we may not even know

:23:50. > :23:53.we have been had. You could be on a cloned website which means criminals

:23:54. > :23:57.behind it can get personal information and your credit card

:23:58. > :24:01.details. But they can link you back into the real website, which might

:24:02. > :24:08.mean you get your passport, for example, as planned and be none the

:24:09. > :24:11.wiser. At the hub of the Scottish Business Resilience Centre are these

:24:12. > :24:19.guys, ethical hackers known as white hats, as opposed to sinister

:24:20. > :24:25.hackers, the black hats. This is a legitimate Government website. So I

:24:26. > :24:41.can go out very easily. That is our version of the Government website

:24:42. > :24:53.here. -- cologne -- clone that. There are sites on line to

:24:54. > :24:57.specifically con people. The advice is not to follow links because this

:24:58. > :24:58.is becoming the way that passport applicants and others are becoming

:24:59. > :25:02.cyber victims. Now, to talk about some other news

:25:03. > :25:06.of the day, I've got Daniel Johnson, Chair of Scottish Fabians, and

:25:07. > :25:12.Carolyn Leckie from Women for Thank you for coming. There has been

:25:13. > :25:17.a bit of controversy today about a medal sent to the staff of work and

:25:18. > :25:21.bench and is from the most senior civil servant in the department. He

:25:22. > :25:25.was talking about the referendum. He said the UK Government has a clear

:25:26. > :25:29.position to maintain the union is legitimate and for UK civil servants

:25:30. > :25:35.to support the Government in this objective. Was he telling staff

:25:36. > :25:38.devote no when he sent that memo? He was taking the Government position

:25:39. > :25:43.and what civil servant should do to support that. He was clumsy, but,

:25:44. > :25:49.you know, Alex Neill yesterday sent e-mails to tell NHS Scotland staff

:25:50. > :25:51.what they should do and the benefits of independence. Let's look at what

:25:52. > :26:14.he had to say. It is pretty similar, isn't it? No.

:26:15. > :26:22.The DWP letters implying, at best, that people should support the union

:26:23. > :26:26.and it is the jetty. Alec Newell is reassuring health workers, who have

:26:27. > :26:30.been scared to death about their pensions, that an independent

:26:31. > :26:35.Scotland will be able to deliver their pensions. It is two different

:26:36. > :26:40.things. It illustrates as well the imbalance in this debate. You have

:26:41. > :26:46.the whole UK state machinery arguing for a no vote and putting papers out

:26:47. > :26:50.and letters to staff. They have complete power over them. It is an

:26:51. > :26:56.abuse of power. All you have ended up with is the British state with

:26:57. > :27:00.egg on their face. I do not think he should be just as embarrassed. That

:27:01. > :27:05.was a stunning interpretation of just a few words. There is a wider

:27:06. > :27:08.question about how should the state machinery in Scotland and the UK act

:27:09. > :27:12.toward referendums? It is clear they have to be neutral and there are

:27:13. > :27:19.other clear rules. One of the questions is, is there an ambiguity

:27:20. > :27:24.around referendums? We need to look at that after the referendum. An

:27:25. > :27:30.interesting poll taken by voters in England. It was in the Herald and it

:27:31. > :27:37.said English say Scots will pay a heavy price for the referendum. They

:27:38. > :27:42.said Westminster should reject the currency union. It gives you a

:27:43. > :27:47.glimpse of why, even though it might make economic sense, some would

:27:48. > :27:53.argue, for Westminster to a greater currency union, English voters might

:27:54. > :27:55.not let them. It is a responsibility of the Westminster Government and

:27:56. > :27:59.media in London to cover this referendum responsibly. I am not

:28:00. > :28:05.sure they have on them not sure how much information people have had. It

:28:06. > :28:10.is my experience, with trade unionist activists who I know, and a

:28:11. > :28:13.supportive of Scotland being independent, Scotland challenging

:28:14. > :28:19.Westminster, privatisation of the NHS etc, going on its own and

:28:20. > :28:22.inspiring people... Do you think English photos will refuse to

:28:23. > :28:28.cooperate with an independent Scotland if it happens? -- English

:28:29. > :28:33.voters. It is more complicated than that. There has been a slow like to

:28:34. > :28:37.England to wake up to the consequences of the referendum. The

:28:38. > :28:41.media have not covered it as they should. The message I got from this

:28:42. > :28:43.poll was that people are confused and I think we need more clarity.

:28:44. > :28:47.Thank you very much for coming. That's all from us tonight. Thank

:28:48. > :28:50.you for watching. I'll be back at the same time tomorrow night. Do

:28:51. > :28:53.please join me then.