:00:00. > :00:00.Tonight, the family of a 20-year-old Glasgow
:00:00. > :00:27.woman who has joined the jihad in Syria say they feel betrayed.
:00:28. > :00:30.Aqsa Mahmood disappeared from her Glasgow home in November.
:00:31. > :00:33.Today her parents said they were horrified to discover that she had
:00:34. > :00:42.travelled to Syria to marry an Islamic State fighter.
:00:43. > :00:48.The Labour MP Douglas Alexander gives us his take on whether there
:00:49. > :00:52.will be better off if they vote no. And have you read any
:00:53. > :00:55.of the political leaflets coming Do you think they are just full
:00:56. > :00:58.of bluff bluster and lies? Wait until you see what
:00:59. > :01:01.politicians used to push The parents of Aqsa Mahmood appeared
:01:02. > :01:05.in public today to say they were horrified when they learned she had
:01:06. > :01:08.become what they called a bedroom radical. Their daughter is believed
:01:09. > :01:10.to have made comments on social media calling on people in Britain
:01:11. > :01:15.to repeat terrorist atrocities seen in Woolwich, Texas and Boston. They
:01:16. > :01:18.said she had all the chances and freedoms in life and that if this
:01:19. > :01:21.could happen to their family it could happen to anyone. Julie
:01:22. > :01:35.Peacock was at the family's press Her mother 's anguish was plain to
:01:36. > :01:41.see. They cannot believe that they're bright, loving daughter Aqsa
:01:42. > :01:48.could become radicalised and join the terrorist group IS in Syria.
:01:49. > :01:54.Their lawyer made a statement. Aqsa was always a very sweet,
:01:55. > :01:57.peaceful and intelligent child who was inquisitive about everything. We
:01:58. > :02:01.had high hopes for her and would have loved her to become a doctor
:02:02. > :02:05.and save lives. Brought up in a home they described
:02:06. > :02:11.as happy and full of affection, they had no why did that in her bedroom
:02:12. > :02:18.she was posting tweets that celebrated terrorist attacks.
:02:19. > :02:27.Ices are killing in the name of our religion and claiming to defend the
:02:28. > :02:31.weak. -- IS. But in helping them, she is helping those committing
:02:32. > :02:38.genocide. The parents had just as many
:02:39. > :02:43.questions to ask themselves. There is no smoking gun, no family
:02:44. > :02:47.member or fundamentalist preacher who can be blamed for her
:02:48. > :02:50.radicalisation. We have spent months as King ourselves the question
:02:51. > :02:57.whether we could have done better and we still -- asking ourselves
:02:58. > :03:04.whether she we could have done better and there is no easy answer.
:03:05. > :03:06.The one thing that everyone agrees on is that radicalisation is an
:03:07. > :03:13.international problem that crosses all borders. So what is the best way
:03:14. > :03:17.to tackle it? One think tank thinks that the UK's intelligence service
:03:18. > :03:23.plays and crucial role in stopping people from being radicalised.
:03:24. > :03:30.They have traffic on the ground in Syria, seeing who is sending
:03:31. > :03:35.messages to who. They will very soon have a comprehensive understanding
:03:36. > :03:39.of how that traffic is operating. For Scotland to have access to that
:03:40. > :03:41.is critical in the fight against terrorism.
:03:42. > :03:46.But with terrorist groups using social media to reach a bigger
:03:47. > :03:51.audience than ever before, nations are facing a changing battle ground
:03:52. > :03:55.and countries cannot rely on their might to solve the problem.
:03:56. > :04:02.I think that it has shown is that for all the economic wealth, the
:04:03. > :04:08.powers have natural bowl -- have little power to manage this. We also
:04:09. > :04:18.need to pay attention to matters of integration. Engaging with the wider
:04:19. > :04:22.community. That is a difficult issue, because we have been talking
:04:23. > :04:27.about this since 9/11. There has been a lot of debate and
:04:28. > :04:33.international energy channelled into working out what the best way
:04:34. > :04:33.forward is. I am afraid that I do not think that we are closer to
:04:34. > :04:38.finding an answer to that. But with extremist groups still
:04:39. > :04:40.drawing any young British recruits, finding an answer is as pressing as
:04:41. > :04:44.ever. With me in the studio, the solicitor
:04:45. > :05:02.representing Aqsa - Aamer Anwar. The parents have been racking their
:05:03. > :05:07.brains to try and work out how she was indoctrinated. What can any
:05:08. > :05:11.parent to do? They could have done nothing. She
:05:12. > :05:16.was offered all the chances in life. She was given the best
:05:17. > :05:25.education that money could buy. She was known as a quiet and
:05:26. > :05:28.intelligence girl. She was -- they did not notice the radicalisation.
:05:29. > :05:35.They became increasingly concerned over the last few months, and it was
:05:36. > :05:37.Syria that seem to be the tipping point. She was angry and
:05:38. > :05:43.frustrated, as many young people and people in the Muslim community are,
:05:44. > :05:46.people in Scotland as well. That is the single issue that they can see
:05:47. > :05:52.as responsible for her radicalisation.
:05:53. > :05:55.So if other parents or teachers noticed someone getting more and
:05:56. > :05:58.more angry and thought that they were getting radicalised, who can
:05:59. > :06:02.they talk to? I think that they need to talk to
:06:03. > :06:08.the individual first, especially if they are a child or young person.
:06:09. > :06:11.There is a concern that with the present political climate, the mass
:06:12. > :06:17.hysteria that meets these cases, that there is a climate of fear.
:06:18. > :06:22.Young people who have questions are scared to ask them. Families are
:06:23. > :06:25.scared to approach the parities, because they are scared that their
:06:26. > :06:34.doors will be hit down and they will be dragged out by counterterrorist
:06:35. > :06:38.authorities. The best way is intelligence in the community, and
:06:39. > :06:44.those bridges were unfortunately destroyed. That is what the security
:06:45. > :06:47.services do not have a solution. If you go to the authorities and
:06:48. > :06:53.arrests are made, then trust is destroyed. If you do not go to them
:06:54. > :06:57.and then they are unable to take action, then you see what has
:06:58. > :07:01.happened to Aqsa Mahmood. Everyone in the community says that
:07:02. > :07:06.if you suspect that your child or a member of your family is going to go
:07:07. > :07:12.abroad to join at jihadist group, then of course. People are asking if
:07:13. > :07:16.Aqsa Mahmood might be prosecuted if she returns. She may well be
:07:17. > :07:21.prosecuted, it is up to the prosecution services to decide that.
:07:22. > :07:27.But what she will face here is much better than being blown up in Syria.
:07:28. > :07:29.Both sides in the referendum campaign say they want a fairer,
:07:30. > :07:32.more equal society - but what's the best way to achieve it? In an
:07:33. > :07:36.independent Scotland or by staying within the UK? In the first of two
:07:37. > :07:38.authored films looking at working people and social justice, Better
:07:39. > :07:41.Together's Douglas Alexander gives his own personal view, and explains
:07:42. > :07:51.why he believes standing together is the best way to tackle inequality.
:07:52. > :07:58.This is Renfrewshire, the community that I grew up with and represent in
:07:59. > :08:02.Parliament. We boast a proud industrial history. It is also one
:08:03. > :08:07.of the many areas across the United Kingdom where people are suffering
:08:08. > :08:11.because of conservative economic policies.
:08:12. > :08:16.Three generations of my family. They took the house from me.
:08:17. > :08:22.When we get into office, we will abolish the bedroom tax 's.
:08:23. > :08:27.There are welfare sanctions. I wish that things would change.
:08:28. > :08:31.We need change, but in my view it does not mean that we have to change
:08:32. > :08:35.our passports. The Nationalists, their purpose and
:08:36. > :08:41.politics is to set up a separate state. For me, for millions of
:08:42. > :08:45.others across Scotland, our first priority is to tackle poverty and
:08:46. > :08:47.inequality and look after working people.
:08:48. > :08:52.It was the fight against inequality and social justice that brought me
:08:53. > :08:58.into politics. It is finally over. The power
:08:59. > :09:03.production in Scotland has ceased. I was only a teenager when the car
:09:04. > :09:07.plant closed, and it was not just here. They're with the shipyards in
:09:08. > :09:13.the North of England, the coal mines in the West valleys. People were
:09:14. > :09:20.suffering across the UK. Now the plant is a retail park. But when it
:09:21. > :09:25.closed, I saw the parents of my classmates out of work and
:09:26. > :09:29.struggling. It was that revulsion at mass employment that inspired me to
:09:30. > :09:32.join the Labour Party. 30 years on, I still think that
:09:33. > :09:38.solidarity is the best means by which to achieve social justice --
:09:39. > :09:45.much social justice. The Labour Party has understood that
:09:46. > :09:51.unity is strength. It is nonsense for the Nationalists to suggest that
:09:52. > :09:59.everyone south of the border is a posterity believing Tory. -- at
:10:00. > :10:05.cutting costs. You worked in the credit union. What
:10:06. > :10:09.has that experience taught you? The work I do, the advantages of
:10:10. > :10:13.spreading financial risk. I can see what happens on a daily basis,
:10:14. > :10:18.particularly with people who have the most to lose from the risks of
:10:19. > :10:24.independence. These are people who do not have the financial
:10:25. > :10:30.wherewithal to move their money offshore. I want to make sure that
:10:31. > :10:35.people with the least in Scotland are protected. That is what we have
:10:36. > :10:38.got right now. Alison's experience shows us how
:10:39. > :10:42.standing together can help us manage our risk. But I believe that staying
:10:43. > :10:47.within the United Kingdom is also a choice that reflects our values. I
:10:48. > :10:52.have come to meet a Church of Scotland minister and a Chief
:10:53. > :10:57.Executive of an anti-poverty charity. For him, the message of
:10:58. > :11:04.nothing by neighbour should not end at the border. -- of loving your
:11:05. > :11:11.neighbour. The same experience is felt not just
:11:12. > :11:16.in Scotland, but in Wales and Ireland and England. What would we
:11:17. > :11:19.be saying to those people if we said that we are better than being fairer
:11:20. > :11:28.than pencil we walked away? What have your experiences with the
:11:29. > :11:31.poor taught to? What would you say about walking away from the United
:11:32. > :11:35.Kingdom? The extraordinary thing that I have
:11:36. > :11:41.heard is that we would be richer by walking away. We would be making our
:11:42. > :11:44.neighbours poorer, therefore. I do not think that those are good
:11:45. > :11:49.values. Sport is one area where people have
:11:50. > :11:55.often stood against each other rather than side-by-side. This man
:11:56. > :12:03.spent four decades as a football commentator.
:12:04. > :12:06.I was way up here at the top. He is passionate about Scotland, but
:12:07. > :12:09.believes that we should stand together with working people across
:12:10. > :12:13.the United Kingdom, like those that he met as a young man in England.
:12:14. > :12:17.I realise that I was bonding with these Englishmen with different
:12:18. > :12:23.accents from me, even more so than some of my colleagues north of the
:12:24. > :12:31.border. I thought to myself, this shows that the values I have got
:12:32. > :12:36.were not parochial values. They work universal values. They could be
:12:37. > :12:38.replicated anywhere in the United Kingdom.
:12:39. > :12:45.What does that mean as you look ahead to the choice that the Scots
:12:46. > :12:50.face on the 18th? I have wept for Scotland. I have had
:12:51. > :12:55.to watch them being beaten, I have had triumphs, but I have been
:12:56. > :13:00.disappointed sometimes. I am voting for my heart as well as my head. I
:13:01. > :13:04.have empathy with everyone that I have met outside of Scotland who
:13:05. > :13:11.thinks the way that I think. It is that working class feeling
:13:12. > :13:16.that the yes campaign would have us give up. We do not have do turn our
:13:17. > :13:22.backs on our neighbours. My politics is about working class
:13:23. > :13:27.people standing together for fairness and equality. On the 18th
:13:28. > :13:32.of September, I will be voting for a principled solidarity that shares
:13:33. > :13:36.the risks and saying no thanks to walking away from our friends,
:13:37. > :13:38.families and colleagues across these islands.
:13:39. > :13:40.Douglas joins me now in the studio, with Humza Yousaf, Minister for
:13:41. > :13:53.We have heard what Douglas has to say, so I will come to you first. If
:13:54. > :14:00.Scotland would be a richer country, he says that this would make our
:14:01. > :14:09.neighbours poorer, and that are not good social values?
:14:10. > :14:15.We have heard about solidarity with Scott 's -- Scotland, or Leeds, all
:14:16. > :14:22.Wales. But I will stand in solid are T with people -- Solidarity trade
:14:23. > :14:30.with people across the world. It does not matter to be part of the
:14:31. > :14:33.UK, to have a social justice agenda, abolishing the bedroom tax
:14:34. > :14:41.or tax credits or winter fuel allowance. The sad thing about what
:14:42. > :14:47.Douglas is talking about, we have one opportunity to do that. He would
:14:48. > :14:53.rather risk a Labour government that is wanting to cut costs, or a Tory
:14:54. > :15:00.government, rather than taking the costs in his own hands. If they were
:15:01. > :15:02.elected by the Scottish people, they would be able to act in favour of
:15:03. > :15:12.the Scottish people here. Dew shares so many ideals. You want
:15:13. > :15:17.to abolish the bedroom tax. Why don't you want to see them happen in
:15:18. > :15:22.Scotland sooner? If you want to get away from this territory, he would
:15:23. > :15:25.not want an extra ?6 billion of cuts in she, which is what would be
:15:26. > :15:31.necessary to deal with the large deficit. He did his best, but if
:15:32. > :15:37.Scotland vote yes in September, we will be walking away not just from
:15:38. > :15:41.the ideal of solidarity, but the practice of solidarity, because we
:15:42. > :15:47.share risks, rewards and practices. We have a welfare system based not
:15:48. > :15:50.on nationality, but needs. We have built this together, the health
:15:51. > :15:58.services, and established a minimum wage. If we were instead to see more
:15:59. > :16:03.competition for the war wages, lower terms and conditions and taxes, the
:16:04. > :16:11.first redistribution of policy in the Scottish Government, is actually
:16:12. > :16:14.an immediate 3p tax cut for the richest corporations, and it would
:16:15. > :16:20.be against the interests of working people. That is true. You are
:16:21. > :16:24.talking about cutting corporation tax, not putting the top level of
:16:25. > :16:36.income tax up. It is only cutting tax for the big corporations. I just
:16:37. > :16:42.gave you three examples. We would stop the abolition of disability
:16:43. > :16:48.living allowance is, which will affect 100,000 disabled people. Hold
:16:49. > :16:57.on. I didn't interrupt you. Afford me that same courtesy. That is three
:16:58. > :17:01.things we would do. Douglas talks about sharing resources. Before I
:17:02. > :17:03.came here, I was less than a mile down the road and the road a
:17:04. > :17:08.government venue where there is a food bank. But we asked the tens of
:17:09. > :17:16.thousands of people queueing at food bags whether they feel the social
:17:17. > :17:21.justice? -- food bags. What redistribution of taxes to you
:17:22. > :17:29.propose in an independent Scotland? Of course these policies would help
:17:30. > :17:34.the social fabric of society. Politics is about our priorities,
:17:35. > :17:39.which is to spend money on social services. You have to tell us where
:17:40. > :17:44.that money will come from. Other any redistribution of taxes in that
:17:45. > :17:48.plane? We are choosing to spend that money on things like protecting the
:17:49. > :17:54.NHS. That tells you where you are spending it, not one where it is
:17:55. > :17:59.coming from. We don't want to spend money on a renewed Trident. Politics
:18:00. > :18:02.are one thing. It is the priorities of where you choose his own money,
:18:03. > :18:10.and we want to spend it on the nuclear -- on the fabric of this
:18:11. > :18:15.country, not nuclear weapons. The mac Alex Salmond has spent that
:18:16. > :18:18.money on the cost of establishing a separate state, and Nicola Sturgeon
:18:19. > :18:24.has a ready spend that money twice in relation to childcare. That is
:18:25. > :18:27.not a compelling argument. Secondly, there is one redistribution policy
:18:28. > :18:33.in the White Paper, which is a immediate tax cut on the richest
:18:34. > :18:37.corporations of 3p. We support a bank deposit bonus. Take it from the
:18:38. > :18:40.richer banks and use it to provide a compulsory job for the young people
:18:41. > :18:47.in my committee. It is opposed by the Scottish National Party. Young
:18:48. > :18:54.people with independents will have the greatest opportunity. The EU
:18:55. > :19:02.gives a constitutional guarantee. Why would you get a anchor pots-mac
:19:03. > :19:10.bonus to find it? -- bank are pots-mac bonus. We have already
:19:11. > :19:16.given a commitment to abolish the bedroom tax. The money raised in
:19:17. > :19:25.Scotland should be spent in Scotland, it should be spent on
:19:26. > :19:32.pensions and the disabled. It was a bed chance but by choice that we
:19:33. > :19:37.could lift 100,000 Scottish children out of poverty. We want a top rate
:19:38. > :19:44.of tax of 15p for those earning more than ?100,000 a year. Why would you
:19:45. > :19:50.oppose that? The SNP held a debate, which were absent from, when it came
:19:51. > :19:55.to the abolition of that tax. When Gordon Brown abolished tax, you were
:19:56. > :20:03.absent. I can't take lectures from Douglas Alexander. Yes or no? Do you
:20:04. > :20:10.support this tax? We said we would explore all tax options in 2016. It
:20:11. > :20:12.makes sense to look at where the finances are on the Dave
:20:13. > :20:17.independents and make sure we spend that money raised in Scotland on the
:20:18. > :20:20.poorest in Scotland. -- on the day of independence. We will have to
:20:21. > :20:25.leave it there. We will hear from Jim Sillars next week.
:20:26. > :20:28.How many election leaflets have you had through the door from Better
:20:29. > :20:32.Do you carefully consider the points they put forward, or does another
:20:33. > :20:35.barrage of claim and counter-claim send it straight to the recycling?
:20:36. > :20:37.Before the internet age, leaflets were an important source
:20:38. > :20:50.These leaflets they have appeared through your letterbox. They are
:20:51. > :20:55.designed to help you make up your bite with facts. However, there are
:20:56. > :21:01.facts agreed to yes, and according to Better Together. -- make up your
:21:02. > :21:05.mind. I have come here to see if I can find anyone who is able to
:21:06. > :21:09.unscramble these facts. Have you had these through your door? I have had
:21:10. > :21:15.both types of literature through my door. What you think? Will I find it
:21:16. > :21:20.confusing. I haven't really read them. I don't know who is telling
:21:21. > :21:24.the truth. The information Alex Salmond has given in these leaflets,
:21:25. > :21:35.as far as I'm concerned, is not factual. Because they present as
:21:36. > :21:43.facts? But so do the other side. To use the these facts are right? I
:21:44. > :21:48.don't believe anything the Yes campaign say. It doesn't matter what
:21:49. > :21:59.they put through the door, you won't change your mind? I'm still voting
:22:00. > :22:04.yes. I'm afraid I've put them in the recycling bin. Most people didn't
:22:05. > :22:10.have recycling bins when these leaflets were put through letter
:22:11. > :22:13.boxes ahead of the referendum on whether Scotland should have its own
:22:14. > :22:15.assembly. Leaflets are an established four of political
:22:16. > :22:20.campaigning, but how have they changed over the years? If
:22:21. > :22:25.politicians today are accused of scaremongering, take a look at this.
:22:26. > :22:30.Warning! This referendum is dangerous! Here is another one. The
:22:31. > :22:37.menace of separation. And on the other side, if Scotland says no, we
:22:38. > :22:43.will never be taken seriously again. Scotland will be universally
:22:44. > :22:47.ridiculed, a laughing stock. Since the invention of the printing press,
:22:48. > :22:50.leaflets have been used to get political messages across. But have
:22:51. > :22:55.they lost their relevance since the invention of social media? I found
:22:56. > :23:02.this one was printed on my father pots-mac printing company. In 1979,
:23:03. > :23:10.multicoloured renting was considered extravagant. -- multicoloured
:23:11. > :23:15.printing. This would've been a standard layout for the technology
:23:16. > :23:21.of the time. The other one with the full-colour images, the time and
:23:22. > :23:24.cost involved at that point in time would have been astronomical. So
:23:25. > :23:31.that was a much more expensive and bigger printing budget? Ethnically.
:23:32. > :23:41.It may have paid off. Scotland did not go to semi. -- absolutely. --
:23:42. > :23:47.Scotland did not get its assembly. Have you made up your mind? No.
:23:48. > :23:54.Maybe you should read these? Maybe I should. Maybe I will. Ultimately,
:23:55. > :24:01.today pots-mac points are remarkably similar to those on the hysterical
:24:02. > :24:05.leaflets. But nobody has told us his facts are more factual than the
:24:06. > :24:17.others. Joining us to talk to the rest of today pots-mac news
:24:18. > :24:19.Now joining us to talk through the days news, Labour blogger
:24:20. > :24:24.and solicitor Ian Smart, and Green Yes campaigner Sarah Beattie-Smith.
:24:25. > :24:31.the Prime Minister was asked why he was running away from the debate.
:24:32. > :24:34.Earlier, the Prime Minister gave a commitment on Scottish television to
:24:35. > :24:38.take part in a programme with undecided voters before the
:24:39. > :24:42.referendum. Will he be doing that, or running away just as he ran away
:24:43. > :24:48.from the First Minister in a debate? On the television programme, I
:24:49. > :24:53.offered them a date, and format, but they seem to run away themselves,
:24:54. > :24:57.which is a great beauty. STV say that the possibility of a referendum
:24:58. > :25:02.debate is still possible. They tweeted today that it is still a
:25:03. > :25:07.possibility. There is an argument over editorial the Prime Minister
:25:08. > :25:10.wants to have an interview where they're asking questions, or just
:25:11. > :25:15.undecided voters. For Better Together, it is not helpful that
:25:16. > :25:23.David Cameron can never quite get it right on Scotland. This is about the
:25:24. > :25:24.the format of a television programme. There is always
:25:25. > :25:29.negotiation between politicians and TV programmes about the format. The
:25:30. > :25:35.BBC debate nearly happened because Alex Salmond was not happy with the
:25:36. > :25:40.original format. Any people think the BBC gave into easily. We can't
:25:41. > :25:44.comment on that obviously. These things happen. Whether this happens
:25:45. > :25:50.with David Cameron, one thing I think is important is there is an
:25:51. > :25:56.assumption that there are no Tories in Scotland. There are more than you
:25:57. > :26:01.think, and they are going to vote in the polls. On this occasion, a
:26:02. > :26:08.common cause might not be such a bad thing. Will it help Better Together
:26:09. > :26:11.if David Cameron will appear on the programme? I figure will be a huge
:26:12. > :26:18.boost to the Yes campaign. We heard him to the CBI conference, preaching
:26:19. > :26:23.to the already converted, but he won't speak to undecided voters, and
:26:24. > :26:32.particularly not to yes voters. He won't debate with Alex Salmond.
:26:33. > :26:34.Nicola Sturgeon... He is a bit of a control freak. He wants to come in
:26:35. > :26:39.on his own platform and run the show. I think it is important for
:26:40. > :26:44.media standards that STV hold its own on this, and they maintain that
:26:45. > :26:48.editorial neutrality. Whenever he comes to Scotland, you can see the
:26:49. > :26:52.yes polls go up. He is welcome to come back any time. One former Prime
:26:53. > :26:58.Minister we haven't seen dive into the referendum campaign is Tony
:26:59. > :26:59.Blair. He made every appearance when he won four and the rest of the
:27:00. > :27:13.year. He has established a large
:27:14. > :27:18.charitable foundation and spent a lot of time doing charitable work.
:27:19. > :27:21.Does that not count as being a global philanthropist? I could
:27:22. > :27:30.figure of others who may be more worthy. I do wonder whether... I
:27:31. > :27:37.didn't even know Gigi was still being published. It is a hugely
:27:38. > :27:43.successful publicity stunt for them. Is he under fairly vilified? He may
:27:44. > :27:49.well do a lot of charity work, but so do a lot of millionaires. For the
:27:50. > :27:52.man who took this to a war in Iraq and is apparently a Middle East
:27:53. > :27:58.peace envoy, and we have seen what is going on Gaza, the man who
:27:59. > :28:03.carried on Thatcher pots-mac legacy, he looks the same as every other
:28:04. > :28:09.party in Westminster. For him to be awarded as a philanthropist is
:28:10. > :28:12.beyond irony. It is almost shameful. Thank you both very much for coming
:28:13. > :28:15.in to join us. That is it from us. Thank you for watching the
:28:16. > :28:18.programme. I will be back at the same time tomorrow night. Join me
:28:19. > :28:23.then. Have a good night. Goodbye.