:00:00. > :00:00.Don't shoot the messenger - or maybe you should.
:00:00. > :00:26.Can you finish this 'popular' hashtag, hashtag BBC...
:00:27. > :00:28.The dust is settling on the referendum -
:00:29. > :00:32.we ask how the Scottish, British, Traditional and new media acquitted
:00:33. > :00:39.Did you protest outside this building about the way the BBC
:00:40. > :00:43.Tonight we're putting Scotland's media under the microscope
:00:44. > :00:46.and asking if we were up to the challenge?
:00:47. > :00:51.It's the third most-watched sporting spectacle on Earth.
:00:52. > :00:55.150 private jets have landed at Edinburgh, but can women get
:00:56. > :01:04.The referendum results came out a week ago tonight.
:01:05. > :01:10.Weary campaigners from both sides of the divide have now had some time
:01:11. > :01:16.The media, in all its guises, is coming in for praise and criticism,
:01:17. > :01:20.as it informed, guided and sometimes tried to influence our votes.
:01:21. > :01:30.Fiona Walker has been looking to see if the medium is still the message.
:01:31. > :01:39.For a 2 years, headlines, photographs,, press releases,
:01:40. > :01:42.debates, they have been about the most important political decisions
:01:43. > :01:47.that many people in Scotland will ever have taken, but did the media
:01:48. > :01:54.get it right? Professor Neal Blaine is a yes vote and his job is to
:01:55. > :01:58.scrutinise media coverage. Most of the news, broadcast and press coming
:01:59. > :02:02.from London, was sympathetic, really, to the maintenance of the
:02:03. > :02:05.union and either sceptical or depending where you look, if you
:02:06. > :02:11.look at the Daily Mail or the Daily Telegraph, very hostile to the idea
:02:12. > :02:18.of independence. A no vote and journalist, Alex Maskey says that
:02:19. > :02:20.the media stands for freedom of expression, so with the exception of
:02:21. > :02:24.broadcasters, you have to take what you get. The Reds no requirement on
:02:25. > :02:31.the newspaper industry to be fair and balanced on their coverage of
:02:32. > :02:35.any political party. The free press is free to behave appallingly, and
:02:36. > :02:41.that is, if you like, one of the prices of the free press in a
:02:42. > :02:45.democratic society. Many newspapers came out, others did not declare
:02:46. > :02:50.either way, only one can out in support of yes, and this man is the
:02:51. > :02:56.editor. There is not enough diversity, I do not know why that is
:02:57. > :03:00.the case. I do not think there was a conspiracy among editors to do that,
:03:01. > :03:03.I think editors took the decision that they felt was right and I think
:03:04. > :03:08.that is perfectly proper that they should do that, I do not criticise
:03:09. > :03:12.them for that, I just think the fact they all came to the same decision
:03:13. > :03:23.says so much about the diversity of the media in Scotland that isn't
:03:24. > :03:27.good. This rapper did not feel that his life was represented on
:03:28. > :03:37.mainstream media so he started out on YouTube and blogging. You say yes
:03:38. > :03:39.campaigner. We see a liberal class to a different lens from the
:03:40. > :03:44.majority of people that are watching the news, so what it shows us is
:03:45. > :03:51.that inequality is becoming manifested in our attitudes to life,
:03:52. > :03:54.so perhaps it is not just biased, but it is that we are developing
:03:55. > :03:57.different value systems, almost like there are two societies in parallel
:03:58. > :04:06.that do not talk to each other any more. The BBC became the centre of
:04:07. > :04:10.media bias accusations, with protesters outside the BBC
:04:11. > :04:15.headquarters in Glasgow saying that it was prounion. There is now a
:04:16. > :04:20.petition running online with more than 80,000 signatures. So, did the
:04:21. > :04:26.BBC lose sight of its vital selling point, impartiality? Personally, I
:04:27. > :04:31.think some of the views that had been set up for general election
:04:32. > :04:36.campaigns had been imposed on the referendum and I do not think they
:04:37. > :04:39.worked. I think BBC Scotland were getting to a situation where it was
:04:40. > :04:44.being used, and towards the last weeks of the campaign, when the
:04:45. > :04:48.London-based media woke up to what was going on, I do not know why it
:04:49. > :04:52.took them so long, but it took them a long time. And when they came up
:04:53. > :04:55.here, I think we saw a lot of the same mistakes that were made at the
:04:56. > :05:03.beginning of the campaign being made again. First son who did not fight
:05:04. > :05:07.what they were looking for in traditional media, the gap was
:05:08. > :05:12.filled by emerging online sources and social media. -- for some. The
:05:13. > :05:17.debate online was frenzied. Over five weeks in August and September
:05:18. > :05:21.there were more than 10 million interactions on Facebook around the
:05:22. > :05:26.referendum. The yes campaign had the lead with 76,000 more likes than the
:05:27. > :05:31.better together campaign. The key yes Twitter figures also had more
:05:32. > :05:36.followers. More and more people as we got towards the 18th of September
:05:37. > :05:39.were going online because they felt, and it is perhaps criticism of the
:05:40. > :05:44.mainstream media, they felt they did not have enough information. I think
:05:45. > :05:49.if we are looking to the future, we would expect that this would
:05:50. > :05:53.probably be a boost to online media. Social media redress the balance in
:05:54. > :05:59.terms of giving a voice to the average punter who is perhaps maybe
:06:00. > :06:03.not the most newsletter at. It is important, social media, because it
:06:04. > :06:06.can rally the troops and help with converts but it also runs the risk
:06:07. > :06:11.of being an echo chamber where you will just hear what she wants to
:06:12. > :06:14.hear. Did the media influence the result of the referendum and two
:06:15. > :06:17.will people trust to report their politics in the future? -- who will
:06:18. > :06:19.people trust? I'm joined now from London by Ric
:06:20. > :06:22.Bailey who is the BBC's Editorial In Edinburgh we have John McLellan,
:06:23. > :06:26.the Director of the Scottish Newspaper Society
:06:27. > :06:28.and former Editor of the Scotsman and here in the studio, I'm joined
:06:29. > :06:42.by Mike Small the editor of Thank you for joining us, Rick in
:06:43. > :06:47.London, it has been reported that the BBC had more than 5000
:06:48. > :06:51.complaints about its handling of the independence referendum, the vast
:06:52. > :06:55.majority was that the corporation was biased in favour of the union,
:06:56. > :06:59.our Twitter feed tonight has been alive with comments, was the BBC
:07:00. > :07:04.fair and impartial during the referendum? Impartiality and
:07:05. > :07:08.fairness are critical to the BBC, it is why we are there and why we are
:07:09. > :07:23.trusted by the audience. It is not surprisingly that we are held to
:07:24. > :07:25.account by the audience. In a referendum, it becomes very binary,
:07:26. > :07:28.very polarised, then nearer that you get to the end, the more intense and
:07:29. > :07:31.passionate it becomes. The space for impartiality is very difficult to
:07:32. > :07:34.find, so we knew it would be a big challenge from the start. We did a
:07:35. > :07:36.loss to try and make sure we got it right. Of course the would-be
:07:37. > :07:39.critics. We try to respond to that, we're not arrogant enough to say we
:07:40. > :07:50.got everything right in the huge coverage we had to do. But on the
:07:51. > :07:52.whole, we are the place where people go to the impartial trust and
:07:53. > :07:55.information and that was our goal and I think and I know that we do
:07:56. > :07:57.want people to believe that passionate yes and no supporters,
:07:58. > :08:02.that across the range of our coverage, we did that. Mike small
:08:03. > :08:08.here in the studio, some snort of derision, what did you think of the
:08:09. > :08:13.BBC coverage? Do not believe me, because I am cyber, I am out of the
:08:14. > :08:17.picture, but listen to the words of Paul Mason, the former economic
:08:18. > :08:22.editor for your flagship programme who said, the BBC coverage was at
:08:23. > :08:27.propaganda strength, that he hadn't seen since Iraq. These are
:08:28. > :08:31.extraordinary comments and our complacency is also extraordinary
:08:32. > :08:44.about what is a pivotal moment in British history. Brick, pick that
:08:45. > :08:47.up, that point from a former BBC correspondent? He is a former
:08:48. > :08:50.correspondent, but look at the reality, of course you can mobile
:08:51. > :08:53.eyes a lot of opinion, but we did a huge out of opinions, but we did a
:08:54. > :08:58.few demented coverage. We did the work on Radio 1, we had all over
:08:59. > :09:01.Scotland we did drama, current affairs, documentaries. I am not
:09:02. > :09:05.complacent, I do not say everything we did is perfect, we did a huge
:09:06. > :09:09.amount and we try to listen carefully to make sure we get it
:09:10. > :09:13.right. We did lots of training with people in Scotland and across the UK
:09:14. > :09:17.to get them ready for this. The prime goal and this was impartiality
:09:18. > :09:25.and of course, if you are embedded and feel passionately on one side or
:09:26. > :09:28.the other, it is very difficult to understand that. Part of our job is
:09:29. > :09:30.to scrutinise and it is free difficult when your own side is
:09:31. > :09:32.being scrutinised in the conditions of a referendum where it is so
:09:33. > :09:35.polarised, to accept that there is an impartial voice, but I believe
:09:36. > :09:45.the BBC was impartial throughout this, including the UK wide covered
:09:46. > :09:49.coverage from outside Scotland. Alex Salmond, he said to Channel four
:09:50. > :09:52.News, that there was a huge difference public service
:09:53. > :09:56.broadcaster and being a state broadcaster and he said I'm not
:09:57. > :10:08.certain the BBC understands that difference. Is there a public
:10:09. > :10:10.perception problem that people have with the BBC about being a state
:10:11. > :10:15.broadcaster and a public service broadcaster? I do not think that is
:10:16. > :10:18.the argument at all. We always come under in intense pressure because
:10:19. > :10:25.the politicians do that the audience trust us above all other media. I
:10:26. > :10:30.know you can laugh, but it is true. It is true. John McClelland, you
:10:31. > :10:35.have heard this debate sitting there patiently, we heard earlier,
:10:36. > :10:39.research by Doctor David Patrick, he suggested a fair degree of the press
:10:40. > :10:45.showed no constitutional bias, but when they did, it was in favour of
:10:46. > :10:53.the union. Many papers, if you are a daily Telegraph reader, they are
:10:54. > :10:56.preaching to the converted. You know that when you buy the Telegraph, the
:10:57. > :10:59.daily express... But I was particularly heartened by his
:11:00. > :11:06.findings that the indigenous press were fair and balanced and his study
:11:07. > :11:12.has got to this so far and I expect that the second six months of this
:11:13. > :11:17.study will bring that out also. Of course, looking at the press, in
:11:18. > :11:21.some ways, how relevant are you? There is the declining popularity of
:11:22. > :11:25.the printed press, but in some ways you were crucial to the social media
:11:26. > :11:33.debate when one of your respected columnists from a newspaper might be
:11:34. > :11:37.beaten treated and republished in social media. Yes, it is very easy
:11:38. > :11:40.to look at the influence of the press only through the prism of
:11:41. > :11:45.print copy sales, but the reality is, that hundreds of thousands of
:11:46. > :11:49.people are accessing the work of journalists on traditional newspaper
:11:50. > :11:55.companies and websites and the digital come indications. These are
:11:56. > :12:00.very much part of the future of our business. -- website and the digital
:12:01. > :12:06.communications. I see absolutely no conflict between what newspapers are
:12:07. > :12:11.doing digitally and the addition to the world of come indications from
:12:12. > :12:16.online newspapers, the more the merrier, as far as I am concerned.
:12:17. > :12:20.The more the merrier, in some ways you are reflecting each other,
:12:21. > :12:32.Bristol a role for the traditional printed press, people like you can
:12:33. > :12:39.focus people on what is being said. -- there is still a role for the
:12:40. > :12:44.traditional printed press. Tomorrow, we are launching a boycott to retail
:12:45. > :12:50.energy the one to give up on their commitment to the licence fee to the
:12:51. > :12:53.BBC or their commitment to the newspapers and pay instead to online
:12:54. > :12:57.services. That will happen in a huge way and so this kind of complacency
:12:58. > :13:05.in the wake of this bias is going to be huge. I guarantee you that. We
:13:06. > :13:08.saw some tweet this week and some articles saying that there has been
:13:09. > :13:14.a research and is of new media, is this what you're trying to create,
:13:15. > :13:19.an alternative vision of media in Scotland? Yes, some people call it
:13:20. > :13:23.the fifth estate where people are unable citizens, empowered to be
:13:24. > :13:29.able to translate media and create content and that is what we're
:13:30. > :13:31.doing. There are podcasts, videos, logs, everything that will
:13:32. > :13:37.transferred the media landscape in Scotland. Rick, it must be
:13:38. > :13:43.interesting to you to listen to what is happening, what would devolving
:13:44. > :13:48.broadcasting to Scotland mean? Would it mean that it was perhaps a little
:13:49. > :13:52.bit closer to the people of Scotland, we hear about this
:13:53. > :13:56.research and of new media, but if broadcasting was devolved, would
:13:57. > :14:00.that perhaps help to address some of these concerns? I do not think we
:14:01. > :14:12.are near a position to be talking about that, yet, to be honest. We
:14:13. > :14:18.are one week from the campaign, we are assessing how it went, we looked
:14:19. > :14:20.at the idea of complacency, that is completely untrue. We take
:14:21. > :14:22.complaints very seriously, we set up a hotline for the two campaigns to
:14:23. > :14:24.make sure that if there was something they were unhappy with
:14:25. > :14:27.that they thought was going wrong, we had the ability to do something
:14:28. > :14:32.about it really quickly and it is interesting that to read the 16
:14:33. > :14:36.weeks of the campaign, between them, they used that less, and we had to
:14:37. > :14:43.change less than one complaint per week. That is because people are
:14:44. > :14:49.switching off from your service. That is not true. That feeling of
:14:50. > :14:57.protest, there was that march on BBC Scotland here at Pacific key on that
:14:58. > :15:00.Sunday, a huge presence here from the yes campaign, does that concern
:15:01. > :15:06.you about the public perception of the BBC in Scotland?
:15:07. > :15:12.All referendums become very polarised and very passionate. I am
:15:13. > :15:18.not surprised that people feel very strongly and not surprised that the
:15:19. > :15:22.BBC gets the criticism. If you go back to the referendum in 1975 on
:15:23. > :15:26.the common market, the BBC gets it in the neck. It does not mean we get
:15:27. > :15:32.it right all the time, it means we have to scrutinise what we do. It
:15:33. > :15:38.means we are not popular. I want to put a point to you. We are hearing
:15:39. > :15:46.from Alex Massie that perhaps you are an Echo chamber. Apps people
:15:47. > :15:53.just want to hear from their own side. Do you think that is the case?
:15:54. > :15:59.From someone who writes for the Spectator, the idea of an echo
:16:00. > :16:05.chamber is laughable. Social media exists now. When Nick Robinson went
:16:06. > :16:10.on and told people that Alex Salmond had not answered a question, 100,000
:16:11. > :16:15.people had already viewed him answering that question. There is
:16:16. > :16:20.total transparency and that is what the BBC cannot cope with so it is a
:16:21. > :16:24.dying media. John McLellan, we were hearing from Richard Walker about
:16:25. > :16:31.the lack of diversity of opinion in the printing press. It was just the
:16:32. > :16:35.Sunday Herald who came out for Yes. Is that concerning? Is it strange
:16:36. > :16:42.that only one newspaper came out in that way? The editors will come to
:16:43. > :16:45.their conclusion individually. You would have to collectively ask
:16:46. > :16:51.editors. They came to their views on their own. Some came out for No,
:16:52. > :16:57.others expressed no preference. As you say, the Sunday Herald came out
:16:58. > :17:05.for Yes. It is a free and diverse press and there are new means of
:17:06. > :17:10.communication. I think in large part the newspapers reflected the
:17:11. > :17:14.opinions of their reach ships. You can argue whether that is right or
:17:15. > :17:22.wrong but certainly in the case of the sun and the record, it is clear
:17:23. > :17:26.that there is a 50-50 split. Both those papers did their utmost to
:17:27. > :17:34.plough a very straight furrow between the two. The Sunday Herald
:17:35. > :17:41.is popular in academia in Glasgow. It reflected the views of those
:17:42. > :17:47.people. In that newspapers reflect rather than lead the opinions of
:17:48. > :17:52.their readerships, it is no surprise that most editors came out the way
:17:53. > :17:57.they did. Just briefly, when you look at the architecture of the
:17:58. > :18:03.media and the referendum campaign, the BBC, new media and newspapers,
:18:04. > :18:08.in the future, if papers are struggling, how might that change
:18:09. > :18:12.things? Papers are not struggling for audiences. They are wrestling
:18:13. > :18:16.with different economic models that newspapers are reaching more people
:18:17. > :18:21.than they have ever done. This kind of talk, it seems to me there is an
:18:22. > :18:25.attempt to fulfil the prophecy here. Newspaper audiences are as
:18:26. > :18:29.vibrant as they have ever been, if not more so. The work of the
:18:30. > :18:37.journalists working for mainstream Scottish newspapers is reaching more
:18:38. > :18:44.people than ever. Their work should not be denigrated, just because some
:18:45. > :18:50.commentators focused only on a very out of date measurement of what we
:18:51. > :18:53.do. Mike, John is talking about the professional journalists who
:18:54. > :18:57.disseminate that information, who can be trusted to give an impartial
:18:58. > :19:01.view. Is that the problem with social media, that you are preaching
:19:02. > :19:09.to the converted, it is perhaps that echo chamber, it is not giving the
:19:10. > :19:18.two sides of the coin? No, it we are about opening voices to the
:19:19. > :19:31.excluded. Some have reached the dizzy heights of Number Ten will
:19:32. > :19:38.stop no one is preaching to you. The tabloid press has changed us in the
:19:39. > :19:47.last 30 years. It is nonsensical to conflate those issues. The only
:19:48. > :19:56.newspaper out of 37 daily newspapers, the only one that has
:19:57. > :20:01.111% increase in sales... There are not 37 daily newspapers in Scotland.
:20:02. > :20:09.The only one to back independence has had a 111% increase in sales. Is
:20:10. > :20:13.that true or false? True. So there is a commercial interest which is
:20:14. > :20:21.failing in the mainstream media. That is why new media is coming
:20:22. > :20:23.forward to fill that gap. OK, gentlemen, we have to leave it
:20:24. > :20:29.there. An interesting discussion. Thank you.
:20:30. > :20:32.Let's now take a look at some of the stories that are making
:20:33. > :20:45.CNN reports a Pentagon spokesperson has said fighting Islamic State
:20:46. > :20:51.would take years, as US led air strikes target a number of oil
:20:52. > :20:58.refineries in Syria. Al-Jazeera says a Scottish man on
:20:59. > :21:03.death row in Pakistan for blasphemy charges is in intensive care after
:21:04. > :21:07.being shot by a prison guard. And the Guardian proclaims forget
:21:08. > :21:16.the referendum, Scotland says yes to the Ryder Cup which will host 40,000
:21:17. > :21:18.fans a day in Gleneagles. Let's take a look at some of the
:21:19. > :21:22.other stories making the news. I'm joined by the journalist
:21:23. > :21:32.and commentator Anna Burnside and Thank you for joining me. What did
:21:33. > :21:39.you make of the BBC's coverage of the independence referendum. We are
:21:40. > :21:43.hearing interesting comments. I can see it is very, very tempting if you
:21:44. > :21:49.are angry and you have a certain point of view. It is very tempting
:21:50. > :21:52.to find something big like the BBC and direct a lot of anger against it
:21:53. > :21:59.and I think that is what happens with the yes campaign. I think the
:22:00. > :22:04.BBC is an easy target and as someone made the point in an earlier clip,
:22:05. > :22:08.towards the end of the campaign, when you saw national commentators
:22:09. > :22:12.coming into the debate, possibly a bit clunky on the fine point of the
:22:13. > :22:19.issues, there were mistakes made and it upset people. I think it got a
:22:20. > :22:22.bit nasty. Really interesting to see the discussion between John McLellan
:22:23. > :22:33.and Mike small, traditional media and new media. Of course, they have
:22:34. > :22:35.got that very close relationship where a respected commentator like
:22:36. > :22:42.you could write about it in the Observer. Social media is one of the
:22:43. > :22:49.best things which has happened in Scotland. Given the not too distant
:22:50. > :22:55.future, given the massive success in crowd funding, it will be a social
:22:56. > :22:59.job for a lot of jobless journalists. John McLellan is right
:23:00. > :23:08.when he talks about the outdated way of measuring the success of
:23:09. > :23:15.newspapers. The narrative is the sales are declining. However, when
:23:16. > :23:18.you look at the websites, these have become quite sophisticated. They are
:23:19. > :23:25.drawing in loads of readers in numbers which journalists and the
:23:26. > :23:30.traditional form of newspapers could only dream of. There is a place for
:23:31. > :23:36.both. Let's look at something else making the headlines today. The
:23:37. > :23:41.Smiths commission, Lord Smith looking at more powers for
:23:42. > :23:50.devolution. There is a tweet from a SNP councillor, now he has got time
:23:51. > :24:01.on his hands, SNP should go radical and nominate Alex Salmond.
:24:02. > :24:09.Do you think Mr Salmond might be interested? I am hoping not. I think
:24:10. > :24:14.he might be a bad choice for a committee like that. He is far too
:24:15. > :24:19.strong flavour, he is far too big a figure that kind of commission. It
:24:20. > :24:24.is more a job for your more senior elder statesman, I think, not
:24:25. > :24:29.someone who is a week out of the most bruising political campaign of
:24:30. > :24:34.his life. I think he needs to chill out, as the young people say,
:24:35. > :24:38.without going to join another big constitutional debate. Nicola
:24:39. > :24:42.Sturgeon says she will work with the commission. It seems like these
:24:43. > :24:48.elder statesmen and women are quite good chums. That can be a blessing
:24:49. > :24:54.or a curse. I think the SNP have got a chance to be quite imaginative and
:24:55. > :25:00.radical here. I would like to see somebody like Jean Freeman or Leslie
:25:01. > :25:03.Riddoch, each of whom had fantastic referendums and added to the gaiety
:25:04. > :25:10.and the jollity of the entire campaign and who must have traipsed
:25:11. > :25:14.every single yard of the length and breadth of Scotland. Each of them
:25:15. > :25:18.represented this country well and can be proud of what they did. I
:25:19. > :25:24.think they can have a major contribution to this. I mentioned
:25:25. > :25:29.Nicola Sturgeon. She will be looking for a new deputy. Keith Brown says,
:25:30. > :25:35.delighted to announce my intention to stand as deputy leader of the
:25:36. > :25:39.SNP. And another tweet from Stuart Hosie, delighted to launch my bid
:25:40. > :25:46.for the SNP deputy leadership. Interesting, these two men coming
:25:47. > :25:53.into the race. One is an MP and one is an MSP. I think that is the most
:25:54. > :25:59.interesting thing about it. It comes, should the debate be centred
:26:00. > :26:02.in Westminster? Is that the right place to hold the heels over the
:26:03. > :26:10.fire, or should it be centred in Holyrood? Is that the focus of the
:26:11. > :26:20.next stage. Kevin briefly, we know who these guys are, do other people?
:26:21. > :26:28.More so Kevin Brown. He has a very colourful hinterland. -- Keith
:26:29. > :26:32.Brown. I take an's point that it would be a deputy based in
:26:33. > :26:36.Westminster because it would be a statement of intent of taking the
:26:37. > :26:41.fight into the belly of the beast, so to speak. And a final tweet, a
:26:42. > :26:49.tweak from BBC Scotland's environment correspondent, UK
:26:50. > :26:55.government to remove householders' right to object to fracking beneath
:26:56. > :27:01.their homes. Great news for everybody. The
:27:02. > :27:06.Scottish government very upset. Anyone who sees a Land Rover with
:27:07. > :27:12.heavy kit approaching their house would be upset about that. It is
:27:13. > :27:19.horrendous. It is so far beneath your house, it is that an issue? I
:27:20. > :27:23.have to confess, I did not realise they had the right to object to this
:27:24. > :27:29.underneath my house. I suppose it depends on what sort of house you
:27:30. > :27:33.have. You are making the point about the West End and some would say the
:27:34. > :27:39.West End could do with a bit of fracking here and there. However, I
:27:40. > :27:42.think also it is not good that the Westminster government, the first
:27:43. > :27:45.thing you do is take away something. Thank you both very much for joining
:27:46. > :27:48.me tonight. Thanks for being with us this
:27:49. > :27:52.evening. Sarah will be back here on Monday
:27:53. > :27:55.at the usual time of 10.30. Ladies and gentlemen,
:27:56. > :28:23.we have liftoff. QI is back with a series all about L,
:28:24. > :28:28.so loosen up your laughing gear, live a little and let us
:28:29. > :28:31.light up your life.