:00:00. > :00:00.The House of Lords sends the Chancellor back
:00:00. > :00:27.to think again about his plans to cut working tax credits.
:00:28. > :00:31.In a humiliating defeat for the Conservative government,
:00:32. > :00:34.the House of Lords tonight voted to delay cuts to tax credits and to
:00:35. > :00:39.Have unelected peers overstepped the mark, and where does this now
:00:40. > :00:44.The Scottish Conservatives leader, Ruth Davidson,
:00:45. > :00:49.I'll be asking her if she's happy with this government defeat.
:00:50. > :00:54.And we look at what people get out of singing and why choirs are no
:00:55. > :01:04.longer just the preserve of elderly ladies at church.
:01:05. > :01:07.Controversial plans to cut tax credits have tonight been left
:01:08. > :01:10.in limbo, after the UK government was defeated in the House of Lords -
:01:11. > :01:16.Peers voted to delay the changes pending an independent review,
:01:17. > :01:20.even though ministers said the Lords had no right to get involved.
:01:21. > :01:31.Andrew Black looks back on an eventful day at Westminster.
:01:32. > :01:36.What are you entitled to? Tax credits claimed by more than 4
:01:37. > :01:41.million people across the UK have been linked to big improvements in
:01:42. > :01:46.child puppetry. The UK Government now wants to cut them as it brings
:01:47. > :01:51.in other benefits to support less well off families. -- child poverty.
:01:52. > :01:58.That has been argued by those who think the changes will hit those on
:01:59. > :02:02.low incomes. So the scene was set for a political showdown in an
:02:03. > :02:07.unusual setting. Today in the House of Lords, multiple attempts were
:02:08. > :02:10.made to derail the government's reforms, but proceedings began with
:02:11. > :02:15.a warning that the Lords had no right to block a financial measure
:02:16. > :02:20.which had already been backed by the House of Commons. Whether it was to
:02:21. > :02:25.completely reject it outright, or to withhold it, we would be challenging
:02:26. > :02:31.the financial privacy of the other place. Despite that, there were
:02:32. > :02:36.calls for the reforms to be delayed until that impact could be assessed.
:02:37. > :02:39.The Prime Minister said in his speech to the Conservative
:02:40. > :02:44.conference, the British people want a government that supports the
:02:45. > :02:48.vulnerable. We will deliver, he said. This amendment provides an
:02:49. > :02:53.opportunity for the Prime Minister to honour that pledge. He went on,
:02:54. > :02:58.the Conservatives are the party of working people. It is no wonder that
:02:59. > :03:02.dozens of Conservative backbenchers, perhaps most of them in fact, once
:03:03. > :03:06.the government is to think again. They don't want the Prime Minister
:03:07. > :03:13.to have misled the people of Britain. We can be so supportive
:03:14. > :03:18.instead of those 3 million families facing letters at Christmas telling
:03:19. > :03:27.them, on average, they will lose up to around ?1300 a year. In the end,
:03:28. > :03:32.the house backs the Baroness's call. And, moments later, a second defeat
:03:33. > :03:37.for the government as peers voted for Labour's position to increase
:03:38. > :03:45.financial support for anyone affected by tax credits changes. My
:03:46. > :03:53.Lords, we have voted 289 contends, not contend is 272. That has forced
:03:54. > :03:56.the UK Government to think again. Labour and Liberal Lords who were
:03:57. > :04:00.not elected have voted against measures in a Conservative budget
:04:01. > :04:04.and that raises constitutional issues, I think what people want to
:04:05. > :04:08.know is how we will approach the tax credit issue. I said I will listen
:04:09. > :04:15.and we are going to listen to the concerns that have been raised. I am
:04:16. > :04:19.delighted to delay the changes, it would have been better if we had
:04:20. > :04:23.killed this stone dead, but I am happy that there is progress and I
:04:24. > :04:28.am happy that the Chancellor is being forced to think again. The UK
:04:29. > :04:32.Government is clearly not happy with the way events unfold tonight. But
:04:33. > :04:33.it is now committed to bringing forward revised proposals to
:04:34. > :04:34.Parliament next month. And we can speak to our Westminster
:04:35. > :04:48.correspondent, Tim Reid, Good evening, Tim. How significant a
:04:49. > :04:53.defeat is this for the Chancellor? It is hugely embarrassing for George
:04:54. > :04:56.Osborne not to... Just a couple of weeks ago, he was saying before the
:04:57. > :05:00.Treasury Select Committee that he was pushing ahead with plans to cut
:05:01. > :05:04.tax credits and it was a matter of judgment. On that judgment stacked,
:05:05. > :05:08.he has been defeated twice. There was some pretty fierce language
:05:09. > :05:14.being bandied around in the house of Lords today. There is something
:05:15. > :05:16.rather ironic about the now praising unelected Lords in the upper is for
:05:17. > :05:20.doing something that is the House of Commons was unable to do and
:05:21. > :05:24.something ironic about the Conservatives complaining about the
:05:25. > :05:28.unelected Lords in the house of lords doing something which they
:05:29. > :05:31.don't usually do, but on this occasion they have not blinked.
:05:32. > :05:35.Quite often, the House of Lords blinks when it comes to big
:05:36. > :05:38.constitutional issues like this. Particularly when they are being
:05:39. > :05:42.threatened with flooding the House of Lords to prevent it from
:05:43. > :05:46.happening in future. Number ten and number 11 are tonight very unhappy.
:05:47. > :05:51.It leaves George Osborne with a huge headache of how to deal with
:05:52. > :05:55.reducing the welfare bill, particularly with tax credits, and
:05:56. > :05:59.doing it in four weeks. He said it will do -- he will do its bit for
:06:00. > :06:02.the Autumn Statement. Where does this leave his plans? Your macro he
:06:03. > :06:06.is going away to think about it. He's back in the House of Commons
:06:07. > :06:11.tomorrow for Treasury questions. John MacDonald this evening came to
:06:12. > :06:13.the dispatch box. He first criticised the response of the
:06:14. > :06:18.government, saying they would think again, but telling the media first
:06:19. > :06:21.and not the House of Commons. He has been asked to make an oral statement
:06:22. > :06:25.in the House of Commons tomorrow. Whether that happens tomorrow is not
:06:26. > :06:29.clear tonight, but he will be at the dispatch box to defend the
:06:30. > :06:33.government's proposals and presumably to try to answer some
:06:34. > :06:38.questions on that, and there is also the welfare bill back in the Commons
:06:39. > :06:41.tomorrow, at which many MPs presumably will be taunting the
:06:42. > :06:46.Chancellor and the Prime Minister for taking this to the brink and
:06:47. > :06:50.losing with the House of Lords defeating them twice. Will the
:06:51. > :06:55.governments take revenge on the Lords for this? There is certainly
:06:56. > :06:57.some warnings from number 11 and number ten. Number ten say they will
:06:58. > :07:02.review the arrangements around the House of Lords to make sure they
:07:03. > :07:06.cannot do this again and the Chancellor himself saying he will
:07:07. > :07:08.see the approach we take. They have been warned. Thank you.
:07:09. > :07:11.Although she's not in the House of Lords, or the Commons, the Tory
:07:12. > :07:14.tax credit row WILL have an impact on my next guest come the spring.
:07:15. > :07:18.She's the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, Ruth Davidson.
:07:19. > :07:20.Joining me for the last in our series of interviews with
:07:21. > :07:35.Good evening. Good evening. This was a humiliating defeat for the
:07:36. > :07:40.government. You pleased? I think we got to remember the principle here,
:07:41. > :07:44.which is to go from a high welfare society to a high wage society,
:07:45. > :07:46.meaning companies paying their workers in wages that they don't
:07:47. > :07:50.need them topped up by the government. I agree with that
:07:51. > :07:53.principle, but I have put on record that I was worried about the
:07:54. > :07:58.fermentation and how that would work, and we had to find a way to
:07:59. > :08:04.make sure people didn't lose out in the transition period. So this is
:08:05. > :08:07.good news. This option is -- this offers an opportunity for the
:08:08. > :08:11.comments to look at fine tuning the implementation. This is a sound
:08:12. > :08:16.policy. People right across the UK agree that we shouldn't have a big
:08:17. > :08:19.company, some of the big supermarkets for instance, paying
:08:20. > :08:22.wages to their employees that they cannot live on, knowing the
:08:23. > :08:26.government will top adults, while recording hundreds of millions of
:08:27. > :08:30.pounds whether profit every year. There was always going to be a
:08:31. > :08:34.shortfall, wasn't there? If you introduce these cuts before the
:08:35. > :08:38.living wage bills up. Before these companies were forced to pay more to
:08:39. > :08:42.their employees. This shouldn't have come as a surprise. I think you had
:08:43. > :08:45.from the Chancellor before the debate today that he was listening
:08:46. > :08:49.to some of the concerns that people within the Conservative Party and
:08:50. > :08:53.other parties had raised. He came out immediately after the vote
:08:54. > :08:58.tonight to see he had taken at board and was looking at how to implement
:08:59. > :09:01.this. There is an issue here about if you are reducing tax credits
:09:02. > :09:07.before the uptake in wages in, how does that affect people on the
:09:08. > :09:11.lowest wages? I have spoken publicly about senior people within the
:09:12. > :09:15.Conservative Party. It was something we were aware of and were looking
:09:16. > :09:19.at. The Chancellor said it was a judgment call. His judgment was
:09:20. > :09:23.wrong. I think he has been defeated in a vote tonight. Concerns were
:09:24. > :09:27.raised, not with the principle of this. We have support from others
:09:28. > :09:31.than the Conservative Party, that you should pay people enough that
:09:32. > :09:35.they should be able to live on it without being subsidised. It is
:09:36. > :09:38.about making sure you get this right and I think this offers is an
:09:39. > :09:42.opportunity and I have been saying for a couple of weeks since our
:09:43. > :09:44.party conference, I was expecting movements and more detail on how we
:09:45. > :09:53.would do this by the Autumn statements. We have had confirmation
:09:54. > :09:56.from the Chancellor. I was asked by the Guardian journalist on this and
:09:57. > :09:59.said I was expecting movements, I would welcome movement and a bit
:10:00. > :10:06.more detail by the Autumn Statement. Tim was in the room at
:10:07. > :10:09.the time and did a number of interviews with the BBC during the
:10:10. > :10:12.course of that conference for whatever reason. Nobody decided to
:10:13. > :10:20.pick up on that or think it was a story or to ask me about it. I spoke
:10:21. > :10:23.on Thursday, Friday, in the Sunday newspapers. I spoke to colleagues
:10:24. > :10:27.down south and in the cabinets. This is something I have raised, that
:10:28. > :10:30.other people within the Conservative Party have also raised. Did you
:10:31. > :10:36.raise it with the Chancellor? I raised this at Cabinet level, I
:10:37. > :10:39.often speak to the Chancellor and reminisced and do not discuss our
:10:40. > :10:44.conversations on television programmes. Do you think they took
:10:45. > :10:49.your concerns on board but you might he wasn't watching. The Chancellor
:10:50. > :10:54.was an listing Nicky Morgan, saying the same thing, you heard George
:10:55. > :10:59.Osborne say again tonight that he had said he would listen, he has
:11:00. > :11:02.listened again, and he will go back and look at how we will implement
:11:03. > :11:06.this. I really think this is an opportunity to take a step back,
:11:07. > :11:10.take a deep breath, go back to the problem. It is quite a thorny,
:11:11. > :11:14.knotty problem. Nobody said this would be easy. To work out a way in
:11:15. > :11:17.which we can do this so that we get the aim is that we as a party have
:11:18. > :11:21.always wanted, a party that gets people into work. We have got 2
:11:22. > :11:25.million more people into work. We allow people to get on once they are
:11:26. > :11:29.in work and makes work pay. These are things we have been doing for
:11:30. > :11:34.five years. What is the bottom line? If we see a single mum working
:11:35. > :11:39.full-time on a minimum wage, who currently loses ?1500, should she,
:11:40. > :11:44.as the Lords are demanding, be fully compensated, or do you think that
:11:45. > :11:45.people, everybody will have to take a hit? I have
:11:46. > :11:48.people, everybody will have to take people, particular those at the
:11:49. > :11:52.bottom end, losing out. different ways you can do that.
:11:53. > :12:20.There are ways in which different ways you can do that.
:12:21. > :12:23.taken into account. I don't think I can sit here without looking at all
:12:24. > :12:30.the numbers, I am not part of the Treasury team. You don't want
:12:31. > :12:35.working families to be out of pocket at all. What I want is, exactly, I
:12:36. > :14:25.want working families, work to keep paying.
:14:26. > :14:29.people across the whole of the UK to have that deterrent. This is
:14:30. > :14:34.something that will last until 2060. I have no idea what strategic
:14:35. > :14:39.security threats will face as a nation in ten, 15, 20 years, never
:14:40. > :14:42.mind 40. I don't know if North Korea will be more or less dangerous, if
:14:43. > :14:46.Russia will be more or less dangerous. That is where you have an
:14:47. > :14:50.insurance policy. Frankly, I think it is disappointing to see the
:14:51. > :14:57.Labour Party in Scotland and the kind of political bank was in 70% of
:14:58. > :14:59.their own members support renewing this and understand that this is
:15:00. > :15:05.about having that insurance policy for the security of our nation.
:15:06. > :15:13.The first is that you want to be judged on closing the attainment gap
:15:14. > :15:17.in education. What is your big idea for the election?
:15:18. > :15:21.There is a number of ways that we can close that attainment gap.
:15:22. > :15:25.Nicola Sturgeon has been Deputy First Minister and now First
:15:26. > :15:29.Minister for nearly nine years, we have seen that attainment gap widen,
:15:30. > :15:32.not close. We have been talking about education for some time. I
:15:33. > :15:38.think education has to be the top of everybody's education. In these two
:15:39. > :15:42.opportunities in life chances. We talked about the ways in which you
:15:43. > :15:45.can improve this. I have been a bit disappointed that it is only eight
:15:46. > :15:48.and a half years into the jobs of that she has held that Nicola
:15:49. > :15:51.Sturgeon has woken up to the fact that there is a problem here.
:15:52. > :15:54.A couple of weeks ago at your conference, you were saying you
:15:55. > :15:58.expected the Tories will have the best ever election result. What are
:15:59. > :16:01.you predicting that in terms of seats?
:16:02. > :16:04.I'm not quick to say in terms of seats, but it is easy enough for you
:16:05. > :16:07.to look up what we have had in the past.
:16:08. > :16:12.19? I'm not putting a limit on my ambition, but that would give us
:16:13. > :16:14.better than we have had in the past and I would like to see that and
:16:15. > :16:16.more than that. And you really think that is
:16:17. > :16:20.possible? We know that about quarter of all
:16:21. > :16:23.Conservative supporters voted tactically it election we just had
:16:24. > :16:27.four other parties to keep the SNP out. We note that a full 10% of
:16:28. > :16:31.Labour voters across Scotland have said they are now moving to the,
:16:32. > :16:34.around or he doesn't week. Do you think you will push Labour in
:16:35. > :16:38.the third-place? I think there are a lot of people
:16:39. > :16:40.out there who voted to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom that are
:16:41. > :16:44.looking on at horror to vacillation but the Labour Party is having right
:16:45. > :16:47.now, the Jihad Jeremy Corbyn and seeing him taking them so far away
:16:48. > :16:51.from this idea of responsible governance, responsible economy,
:16:52. > :16:55.looking after people who work hard and do the right thing. I figure
:16:56. > :16:58.these people, you're welcome in the Conservative Party. If you want a
:16:59. > :17:02.party that wants to have good education, reform public services, a
:17:03. > :17:06.well funded and managed economy that does not hammer you want tax, but
:17:07. > :17:10.also will always stand up for the decision that we made as a nation to
:17:11. > :17:12.stay as part of the United Kingdom, the Conservative Party is here for
:17:13. > :17:18.you. If you do not meet that -- reach
:17:19. > :17:21.that magic 19, would you continue as leader?
:17:22. > :17:23., and asked me the week after election, but I think we will do
:17:24. > :17:25.well in May. Thank you for joining me this
:17:26. > :17:26.evening. That's the message of a new musical
:17:27. > :17:30.which opens in Glasgow this week. A longheld ambition
:17:31. > :17:32.of singer-songwriter Ricky Ross of Deacon Blue and actor
:17:33. > :17:36.Paul Higgins, The Choir is also the first co-production outside London
:17:37. > :17:39.for the Ambassador Theatre Group. Our arts correspondent
:17:40. > :18:06.Pauline McLean reports. In Glasgow's citizen Theatre, and
:18:07. > :18:10.you musical is taking place. The Acquired follows a fortune of small
:18:11. > :18:15.but diverse immunity brought together by singing. It is a
:18:16. > :18:20.long-held ambition of Ricky Ross and actor Paul Higgins.
:18:21. > :18:23.I thought it would be a very fraternal area, committee choir, the
:18:24. > :18:26.idea being that these 12 people would never be in the same room
:18:27. > :18:34.together if it wasn't for this choir.
:18:35. > :18:40.It allows each member of the choir to tell their story in song and for
:18:41. > :18:42.the songwriter, he will need to get around his discomfort around
:18:43. > :18:47.musicals. Suddenly, someone is in the middle
:18:48. > :18:50.of a very important dialogue or they are embracing or widen suddenly
:18:51. > :18:55.burst into song and I think I had a slight issue with that, I have to
:18:56. > :19:01.admit. I'm over that now, I'm fine, but I wanted to make sure that when
:19:02. > :19:06.songs... I had to feel that the songs had a real natural place in
:19:07. > :19:15.it. I'm sorry, I don't think it is in
:19:16. > :19:18.the right part of your voice. You could have this over-the-top.
:19:19. > :19:21.Committed a sin he used to be limited to churches and football
:19:22. > :19:26.terraces, but choirs are everywhere at the moment. Not least in the BBC
:19:27. > :19:30.show The Naked Choir, in which groups have to sing a cappella.
:19:31. > :19:35.Glasgow University's root Choral Stimulation are the hot favourite to
:19:36. > :19:40.win. The thing I love about singing is
:19:41. > :19:45.the connection you get with other people in the sound you can make in
:19:46. > :19:49.with that sound you can get a reaction from people of either
:19:50. > :19:52.laughter, crying, the silence, being able to give someone some sort of
:19:53. > :19:57.experience through the music you're singing, it is relieved, really
:19:58. > :20:02.nice. Especially we can do that with some of the greatest people you
:20:03. > :20:05.know, it is very special. For most choirs, it is about the
:20:06. > :20:10.community, not the competition. That is what is ago veteran Peter
:20:11. > :20:15.Polycarpour believes make this new show a winner.
:20:16. > :20:18.They are not professionals, these are people coming together making
:20:19. > :20:22.music and I find that fascinating. It is really honest, down-to-earth
:20:23. > :20:27.and is full of heart. It's about why people want to come together, give
:20:28. > :20:35.their evenings up and make these up. It's a lovely idea, isn't it?
:20:36. > :20:39.-- make this music. Ambassador Theatre Group certainly think so.
:20:40. > :20:46.This is their first oh original co-production in Scotland. Only
:20:47. > :20:50.don't expect everyone to sing along. I'm terrible. I probably look at
:20:51. > :20:54.myself, I'm the one who does want to join in, but I am unusual. Most
:20:55. > :20:58.people do. I certainly want to join in. It
:20:59. > :21:03.frustrates me that I cannot, and usually I know I am on stage and I
:21:04. > :21:15.find hard. Envy them being able to sing these fantastic songs together.
:21:16. > :21:21.Now for analysis of some of today's big stories - I'm joined by a couple
:21:22. > :21:25.From the Times, Lindsay Mcintosh, and Tom Gordon from
:21:26. > :21:36.Thanks to you both of you to coming in this evening. But back to the top
:21:37. > :21:41.story tonight, the humiliating defeat in the Lords for the
:21:42. > :21:44.Government over tax credits. Where do you think this leaves the
:21:45. > :21:48.Chancellor's plans? As you say, it is humiliating for
:21:49. > :21:53.him, embarrassing for him. He made this really a question of his own
:21:54. > :21:57.personal judgment. He was saying that right up until recent days, and
:21:58. > :22:00.the fact that he is not managed to get it through the House of Lords is
:22:01. > :22:03.indeed very embarrassing for him. And for a man who is seen as the
:22:04. > :22:07.sort of master strategist of the Conservative Party and clearly has
:22:08. > :22:10.ambitions to lead the party after David Cameron.
:22:11. > :22:14.He has thrown down the Government, saying it was his judgment call.
:22:15. > :22:19.Looks like you got it wrong. The media plans are obviously
:22:20. > :22:24.problematic for him, he has to come back with the audit stated -- Autumn
:22:25. > :22:28.Statement next month with his longer plans. It has ambitions to lead the
:22:29. > :22:32.party, those of the interesting ones. It is early in the parliament,
:22:33. > :22:37.a lot of voters will have forgotten about this in a few years' time.
:22:38. > :22:40.Tory MPs who will choose the next leader will not have forgotten about
:22:41. > :22:45.this. It is not long ago that George Osborne made a complete mess of the
:22:46. > :22:49.2012 budget. People confidence in him saying. It just are the recover
:22:50. > :22:52.and that this along. He shows himself as a tone deaf politician,
:22:53. > :22:56.does not understand what is worrying the public, what is worried the
:22:57. > :23:00.parliament and he is bungled it. You will have heard Ruth Davidson
:23:01. > :23:04.talking as well. She basically said she had been concerned about this
:23:05. > :23:09.for sometime, although I had not heard concerns until the comedy
:23:10. > :23:14.programme she was on recently, but perhaps as political editors maybe
:23:15. > :23:17.you heard of her concerns comes back it has been her position for some
:23:18. > :23:20.weeks. Ruth Davidson has been very good at
:23:21. > :23:24.reading the political weather in terms of what has happened at UK
:23:25. > :23:30.level and position herself well in that. I think as well for a leader
:23:31. > :23:33.who has very much topped up the working-class Tory side of her
:23:34. > :23:37.party, it really make sense for her to be very much opposed to what was
:23:38. > :23:40.going on with these tax credit cuts and I think it's really a genuine
:23:41. > :23:43.position that she has been taking to say this cannot be the kind of thing
:23:44. > :23:47.that we as the new modern Conservative Party stand for.
:23:48. > :23:51.So it's not a difficult line to try to, basically, by saying on the one
:23:52. > :23:54.hand I believe in the principal, but I have serious concerns about how
:23:55. > :23:57.it's implemented. Do you think that will be easy to sail on the
:23:58. > :24:03.doorsteps? Not really. The principal is
:24:04. > :24:09.slashing ?4.5 billion of the budgets he really need the money. It is one
:24:10. > :24:12.thing about reducing the deficit, people can understand that. But the
:24:13. > :24:16.mechanism you do, the route you take him at the choices you make and the
:24:17. > :24:19.people you hurt, the losers you create, these are big choices for
:24:20. > :24:23.politicians. She is on the wrong side of the argument, I think, for
:24:24. > :24:27.that. She cannot say it is a matter of fine-tuning the detail or I
:24:28. > :24:31.favored the general principle, the general principle involves taking
:24:32. > :24:34.billions of pounds away from people who cannot afford it.
:24:35. > :24:38.She was still maintaining that the Tories will have their best ever
:24:39. > :24:43.collection at Holly Ridge, we even got a number, 19 seats. Is that
:24:44. > :24:50.possible, achievable? I think there is a coherent argument
:24:51. > :24:52.that extends why that should happen post-referendum she is pursuing this
:24:53. > :24:56.intelligent vote for the union strategy and I think it also clearly
:24:57. > :25:00.Labour are in a bit of disarray at the moment. There is an argument to
:25:01. > :25:03.be made about why the Tories should do well north of the border.
:25:04. > :25:07.However, we have heard similar arguments before and it has ever
:25:08. > :25:10.translate into those votes and seats to the degree that Ruth Davidson
:25:11. > :25:13.would want them to. Are you seeing signs of her Tory
:25:14. > :25:16.revival? The much famed Tory revival! We have
:25:17. > :25:21.heard about it many times before and never seen it. The complexities of
:25:22. > :25:26.the regional vote system in Holyrood. And that Labour decline
:25:27. > :25:31.could see the rise of this. It is possible they could do very well and
:25:32. > :25:35.conceivably even better than Labour, some think Labour may crash into the
:25:36. > :25:38.teens of from where they are now. So it is just about possible. But as
:25:39. > :25:42.Lindsay said, we have seen this movie before.
:25:43. > :25:47.You bring me quite neatly round to Scottish Labour, who are obviously
:25:48. > :25:52.hoping for a revival as well. Kezia Dugdale and Jeremy Corbyn today
:25:53. > :25:56.signed a joint letter of intent, pledging to make Scottish Labour
:25:57. > :26:00.more a... Economist, they had Tom Watson there witnessing the whole
:26:01. > :26:04.thing. Here is what Kezia Dugdale had to say about it.
:26:05. > :26:09.This will put any perception that we were a branch office to bed. The
:26:10. > :26:13.Scottish Labour partner will be run in Scotland by me. It is a good news
:26:14. > :26:16.for Scotland, means we will have strong position in place for the
:26:17. > :26:19.Scottish National Party, we will have a Labour Party fit for the
:26:20. > :26:21.future. That is very much what people want.
:26:22. > :26:28.Is it clear how these plans are actually going to work in practice?
:26:29. > :26:32.No, it's not. Kezia Dugdale was at Westminster tonight speaking to the
:26:33. > :26:35.PLP and laying out these plans which he got through. But after that,
:26:36. > :26:39.there were a number of people at that meeting saying, awaited second,
:26:40. > :26:44.we agree in principle but we do not know how this will work in
:26:45. > :26:49.practice, if the UK party and Scottish party take a different
:26:50. > :26:52.opinion on a key issue, how is the one Scottish Labour MP expected to
:26:53. > :26:57.vote if he comes up in comments? It is not clear yet. And Jeremy Corbyn
:26:58. > :27:00.said it was the historic day today, that Kezia Dugdale is now the boss
:27:01. > :27:03.in Scotland. Do you buy the?
:27:04. > :27:09.I think it a necessary change, but I do not think it is historic or
:27:10. > :27:12.dramatic. It will not while voters. If you go to the doorstep saying
:27:13. > :27:14.that you can now make basic decisions about policy and
:27:15. > :27:17.candidates, people will say you should've been able to do that all
:27:18. > :27:21.along. It will not get credit for doing what everybody else does. It
:27:22. > :27:24.is a necessary step in the right direction. The problem for Labour in
:27:25. > :27:32.Scotland is the do not have enough money to stand on her own tune VAB
:27:33. > :27:36.-- on their own two feet. Two more years like what they've had and they
:27:37. > :27:39.are broke. They need the money the UK can bring them and they will
:27:40. > :27:42.never have economy that way. One Labour MP was reported this
:27:43. > :27:45.evening as saying his could potentially mean the end of Labour
:27:46. > :27:51.as a Unionist party. It is an interesting narrative here.
:27:52. > :27:54.On one side we have got the Labour Party and the Scottish Labour Party
:27:55. > :28:00.docking the union and saying we are Better Together, but then
:28:01. > :28:04.concurrently with that we have got the Labour Party itself looking like
:28:05. > :28:08.it is splitting or fragmenting to a degree. So it's interesting how they
:28:09. > :28:12.will square those two arguments. And just briefly, do you see any
:28:13. > :28:17.clamour within Labour? They are talking about a federal Labour
:28:18. > :28:21.Party. Is anywhere else in UK Labour clamoring for that?
:28:22. > :28:24.Not that I am aware of. There is a big chance for Kezia Dugdale,
:28:25. > :28:34.because the roadblock to reform is always the Scottish MPs. Now the
:28:35. > :28:37.MSPs outnumber them 37 or 38 21. -- 37 or 38-1.
:28:38. > :28:39.That is all we have got time for tonight.
:28:40. > :28:43.For fans of Gareth Malone's The Naked Choir, we'll leave you with
:28:44. > :28:46.an exclusive performance from the finalists, the Glasgow University