:00:00. > :00:00.What protection is there for patients if NHS whistleblowers
:00:07. > :00:32.As one NHS whistleblower is cleared of wrongdoing, we ask if patients
:00:33. > :00:38.and staff are still being let down by Grampian Health Board.
:00:39. > :00:41.And it's not just TalkTalk - we'll be hearing how small businesses and
:00:42. > :00:58.students have been falling victim to the cyber attack blackmailers.
:00:59. > :01:04.If patients are to receive the best medical care, the medical staff must
:01:05. > :01:09.be free to raise concerns without fear of losing their jobs. But one
:01:10. > :01:13.NHS whistle-blower who did just that in Aberdeen found his reputation
:01:14. > :01:17.under fire. Now he has been cleared of bullying allegations by the
:01:18. > :01:19.General Medical Council. The surgeon, Malcolm Loudon, was the
:01:20. > :01:24.original whistle-blower who sparked a review that was critical of
:01:25. > :01:27.Grampian Health Board. The board denies it takes punitive action
:01:28. > :01:29.against off to raise concerns. Here is Fiona Walker from our
:01:30. > :01:38.investigations unit. This all started with one surgeon
:01:39. > :01:42.who blew the whistle. It went to the very top. The Scottish Government
:01:43. > :01:51.intervened and the investigators were sent in. The reports that
:01:52. > :01:52.followed, weaknesses, patient care compromise, significantly
:01:53. > :01:59.dysfunctional. Those were some of the descriptions used. And this is
:02:00. > :02:01.the whistle-blower. But as the health board was under
:02:02. > :02:12.investigation, they investigated him. And Malcolm Loudon was branded
:02:13. > :02:16.a bully. But today, this is a man who feels vindicated. The General
:02:17. > :02:20.Medical Council has not only cleared him on all counts, but this is what
:02:21. > :02:22.they said of NHS Grampian's bullying investigation.
:02:23. > :02:25.The evidence falls far below the standard required to prove
:02:26. > :02:28.We have comments, we find it difficult to understand how the
:02:29. > :02:33.Which makes Malcolm Loudon think the health board was trying to
:02:34. > :02:46.I think it's been an attempt to silence me.
:02:47. > :02:50.It's been done in a way that's really quite ruthless.
:02:51. > :02:53.It's recklessly irresponsible way to behave
:02:54. > :02:55.merely to wreak revenge on those who have called the organisation's
:02:56. > :02:58.conduct and indeed the values and standards into question.
:02:59. > :02:59.And as every senior clinician leaves,
:03:00. > :03:10.From your point of view, NHS Grampian were trying to silence you
:03:11. > :03:15.because you raised claims, allegations, about patient care. But
:03:16. > :03:19.by coming forward as it was a blower, it could be argued that
:03:20. > :03:23.you're using that particular and to hide the fact that you've been
:03:24. > :03:28.accused bullying? I don't believe that is the case.
:03:29. > :03:31.Those allegations have been looked at and completely found to be
:03:32. > :03:36.unfounded. Patients should be at the centre of
:03:37. > :03:41.all of this. Are they? No, it would appear that the conduct of my former
:03:42. > :03:47.employers is absolutely uncaring. You can talk about person centred
:03:48. > :03:48.care and I think this has been ignored completely.
:03:49. > :03:52.I've spoken to nine other doctors who either were suspended by
:03:53. > :03:57.NHS Grampian at the moment or said they felt forced to leave.
:03:58. > :03:59.Now the thing that these nine doctors have
:04:00. > :04:02.in common is that they that they say they all raised concerns about care
:04:03. > :04:14.The ones who are suspended are bound by confidentiality clauses, which
:04:15. > :04:19.means they cannot be cowed, and that includes the Queen's surgeon in
:04:20. > :04:20.Scotland. In fact, the only person he can operate on at the moment are
:04:21. > :04:22.members of the royal family. That is evidence of a very
:04:23. > :04:27.widespread problem in the culture. Doctors are crushed and got rid of
:04:28. > :04:31.because they criticise the system. Or they criticise some aspect
:04:32. > :04:33.of patient care. Now, actually,
:04:34. > :05:09.doctors are supposed to do that. For Malcolm Loudon, this is not the
:05:10. > :05:13.end of the matter. He wants the Scottish Government to intervene
:05:14. > :05:17.once more. This time, investigating the way that staff like him have
:05:18. > :05:20.been treated. The Government must actually get to
:05:21. > :05:25.the heart of what went wrong. The Scottish Government must commission
:05:26. > :05:29.a judge led inquiry into the actions and conduct of all the people
:05:30. > :05:33.involved in this process. The health minister says the matter
:05:34. > :05:36.has been investigated. But for the other and nine doctors who also said
:05:37. > :05:39.they raised concerns, it doesn't feel like this is a case closed at
:05:40. > :05:51.all. Well, earlier I spoke to Fiona
:05:52. > :05:55.Walker. What are the chances of that judge
:05:56. > :05:59.led inquiry that Malcolm Loudon is asking for?
:06:00. > :06:05.Well, the initial indications was suggested that there isn't much of a
:06:06. > :06:13.chance. The health minister has sent a statement today. In it, she says
:06:14. > :06:17.that whistle-blower 's ' issues were fully investigated, they are acting
:06:18. > :06:22.on all of the findings. That would seem to refer to the clinical,
:06:23. > :06:28.medical issues that were raised by Malcolm Loudon and others, rather
:06:29. > :06:31.than the way that the whistle-blowers were treated. I
:06:32. > :06:36.don't think the calls for further investigation will be going away.
:06:37. > :06:39.How does his treatment to compare with the treatment of management
:06:40. > :06:44.within the health board? We saw what happened to Malcolm
:06:45. > :06:48.Loudon. He actually left when he thought he was likely to be
:06:49. > :06:52.suspended. That is what subsequently happened to some of his colleagues
:06:53. > :06:57.who also raise concerns. On the other hand, when these very critical
:06:58. > :07:00.reports came out about NHS Grampian, there was a loss of confidence in
:07:01. > :07:07.some of the senior figures at the health board. If we take the chief
:07:08. > :07:10.executive as an example, he as a result of this loss of confidence
:07:11. > :07:16.took early retirement. I suppose the difference is that when he left, he
:07:17. > :07:24.was given it a quarter of ?1 million to put into his pension pot. We also
:07:25. > :07:28.know that seven others also received payments during that year, which
:07:29. > :07:38.takes it to a total of ?1 million. The subway whistle-blowers are
:07:39. > :07:41.treated have broader implications for patient care?
:07:42. > :07:45.We talk about patient care and safety, what we are actually talking
:07:46. > :07:49.about is potentially life or death decisions that are made in
:07:50. > :07:52.hospitals. So yes, there are management issues which also have
:07:53. > :07:58.come up, but there were things that the whistle-blowers brought up
:07:59. > :08:02.that, like a cancer surgery, mortality rates, care of the
:08:03. > :08:11.elderly, things of that affect patients on a date in, day out
:08:12. > :08:16.basis. There is no good news for the patient if these things are not
:08:17. > :08:18.discussed. There is not the kind of environment where doctors, nurses,
:08:19. > :08:25.any staff feel they can challenge any potentially dangerous
:08:26. > :08:30.circumstances. So, despite all the policy, the aims, objectives, which
:08:31. > :08:33.are stated by the Scottish Government, the health board, if
:08:34. > :08:35.there is an entrenched culture of fear, no policy is going to change
:08:36. > :08:39.that overnight. Thank you very much. I'm joined now from Aberdeen
:08:40. > :08:43.by retired consultant Professor Jamie Weir, who chairs
:08:44. > :08:45.the Patient Action Co-ordinating Team set up in response to
:08:46. > :09:05.the poor standards being encountered We heard their about why protection
:09:06. > :09:08.for whistle-blowers exists come it is this still an issue in NHS
:09:09. > :09:12.grabbing? I think you heard from the news
:09:13. > :09:18.today that there is concern for patients and concern by patients at
:09:19. > :09:23.what is happening in Grampian. Some of it is historical, it has been
:09:24. > :09:29.going back over ten years, which has really resulted from poor
:09:30. > :09:36.management, poor clinical managerial cooperation and to the detriment of
:09:37. > :09:40.patients and patient care. The exoneration of Malcolm Loudon today
:09:41. > :09:47.shows I think that there is still a problem that exists. Grampian Health
:09:48. > :09:50.Board may suggest that it doesn't exist, but I think they are not
:09:51. > :09:58.looking deep enough into the cultural problems that Malcolm
:09:59. > :10:02.Loudon described, the culture as toxic. I think other clinicians have
:10:03. > :10:06.set this. Are you aware yourself of clinicians that have concerned
:10:07. > :10:09.themselves at the moment that are afraid of speaking out?
:10:10. > :10:14.Yes, there are clinicians who have spoken to us in confidence and I
:10:15. > :10:21.have heard it from other sources as well that they raise concerns about
:10:22. > :10:24.patient care and standards and the requirements necessary to fulfil
:10:25. > :10:32.their jobs and look after patients properly, but they dare and do so
:10:33. > :10:35.because they are targeted and told in no uncertain terms that they will
:10:36. > :10:40.shall be, how shall he say, not victimised in so many words, but it
:10:41. > :10:44.would be unwise for them to do so. That is a very sad situation as
:10:45. > :10:49.being occurring in Grampian for about ten years. I sincerely hope
:10:50. > :10:54.and I think our group sincerely hopes that the new management that
:10:55. > :10:59.is in place will change this culture. It has to change, it is not
:11:00. > :11:04.good for patients, it is not good for staff. Staff morale is low at
:11:05. > :11:09.the moment. It takes 20 years to build up a wonderful reputation, it
:11:10. > :11:13.takes 20 minutes to destroy it and until the change is there and the
:11:14. > :11:18.funding, which is really what it amounts to, which I would like to
:11:19. > :11:22.talk about, is in place to look after the patients, our patients, in
:11:23. > :11:26.Grampian at a standard that is acceptable, then this is not going
:11:27. > :11:29.to change. What is the problem here? Why is
:11:30. > :11:36.this not changing the smack we are told everything has been addressed.
:11:37. > :11:43.--? They may have been told it has been
:11:44. > :11:49.addressed, but it hasn't been. Since 1992, Grampian has been receiving
:11:50. > :11:58.less funds of about ?2 billion as comparison to Teesside. There is no
:11:59. > :12:07.difference to the disease profile across Teesside then Grampian. Why
:12:08. > :12:11.are they... You think this is affecting staffing
:12:12. > :12:15.and resources? You think this is having an actual impact in the care
:12:16. > :12:21.that clinicians are able to give patients?
:12:22. > :12:24.Yes, it is bound to. The point is if you're on 20% less staff and you
:12:25. > :12:28.want to do the same for patients and you want to produce the same high
:12:29. > :12:33.quality of care, you're going to be working hell of a lot harder than
:12:34. > :12:36.the people next door. That does not engender good patient care and
:12:37. > :12:43.continuity. It puts stresses on the people who are left to be here --
:12:44. > :12:53.might do it, you only have to look at the figures to show the cancer
:12:54. > :12:57.waiting times, the A times, the number of agency nurses employed, to
:12:58. > :13:00.see that there is a retention problem in Grampian. It has got to
:13:01. > :13:04.be addressed in a has to be addressed essentially and it has to
:13:05. > :13:10.be brought forward so that there is proper funding throughout the NHS in
:13:11. > :13:16.Grampian. ?200 per person per year less that we get in Grampian then we
:13:17. > :13:21.get in case I. Why? There we must leave it.
:13:22. > :13:27.Thank you very much for coming on this evening.
:13:28. > :13:36.Cybercrime, the act of breaking into people's computers and other IT
:13:37. > :13:40.devices is on the rise. The large-scale hacking of phone
:13:41. > :13:41.provider TalkTalk has been served as a reminder of the problem.
:13:42. > :13:48.provider TalkTalk has been served as not just big businesses
:13:49. > :14:14.provider TalkTalk has been served as and all of her information had been
:14:15. > :14:19.encrypted and if we wanted it back, we would have to contact and e-mail
:14:20. > :14:24.address. He was forced to pay a ransom of
:14:25. > :14:30.1000 euros to regain access, but even then, much of the information
:14:31. > :14:31.stored on his database was gone. An average
:14:32. > :16:25.seriously. Back at the hair salon, can hopes to
:16:26. > :16:29.be fully up and running in the next day or so, but it has been a
:16:30. > :16:34.sobering experience. There is a terrible feeling in the
:16:35. > :16:43.pit of your stomach, fear, emotional issues. I was terrified, but over a
:16:44. > :16:46.period of time, as a businessman and self-employed, you have just got to
:16:47. > :16:50.get on with it. His message to other business
:16:51. > :16:53.owners, and get protected or risk an attack from cybercriminals.
:16:54. > :16:56.Joining me now is Professor Bill Buchanan from Napier University.
:16:57. > :17:10.Good evening. That was a pretty worrying case study we heard there,
:17:11. > :17:14.how widespread is the problem? It is pretty widespread, we have seen it
:17:15. > :17:20.in major industry, typically they will attack targets like the finance
:17:21. > :17:25.industry where you have sensitive data, so obviously they are looking
:17:26. > :17:29.at extortion, if they can get control of systems they will then
:17:30. > :17:33.encrypted with a special key and then it is almost impossible for it
:17:34. > :17:38.to be unbroken, the only way it can be unbroken is to pay the money so
:17:39. > :17:43.it is a very difficult crime to follow up and limit the damage. It
:17:44. > :17:46.is not even just small businesses like we heard in the report, even
:17:47. > :17:55.students are being attacked in this way. Anyone who clicks on a link in
:17:56. > :18:00.an e-mail is in danger of this, it might contain an executable
:18:01. > :18:03.programme which contains the ransom ware, once it is on the machine it
:18:04. > :18:07.will contact the headquarters of whoever is involved and create the
:18:08. > :18:12.encrypting key, encrypt the files and tell the user that they need to
:18:13. > :18:18.pay the money to get the encrypting the back. You can also get things
:18:19. > :18:24.like a drive-by download or someone visits a website and it contains the
:18:25. > :18:27.piece of malware in there. The advice and keeping your virus
:18:28. > :18:32.scanner up to date and also having Web protection on your e-mail is a
:18:33. > :18:38.very good thing to do. Who are the people doing this? Where are the
:18:39. > :18:43.base? I could not name, we can trace IP addresses to many regions of the
:18:44. > :18:46.world as they are probably the same countries that appear again and
:18:47. > :18:50.again, whether those people are actually based in those countries is
:18:51. > :18:57.debatable. They tend to be using what is called proxy system, a proxy
:18:58. > :19:00.system is when the attack might source itself from a certain
:19:01. > :19:04.computer but there are a whole lot of other computers behind that
:19:05. > :19:09.computer. It is almost impossible for the police to retrace the actual
:19:10. > :19:14.end source of it so the hackers tend to be based in countries that have
:19:15. > :19:19.got lower threshold for their lives than they do in this country. How
:19:20. > :19:26.lucrative is it for these cyber criminals? The FBI reckon there has
:19:27. > :19:30.been an $18 million hits just this year alone and that is likely to be
:19:31. > :19:36.the tip of the iceberg. Many people probably through the embarrassment
:19:37. > :19:41.of getting a crypto wall will not actually reported. These types of
:19:42. > :19:45.crimes go unreported. If you have a Ph.D. Dissertation that you have
:19:46. > :19:49.written and it has to be handed in and you have not backed up then of
:19:50. > :19:54.course you will pay out because every minute that was passed by the
:19:55. > :20:00.be a greater risk of you not getting your data back. And you have heard
:20:01. > :20:03.of examples like this with students? Yes, there are many occasions.
:20:04. > :20:07.Students visit sites they maybe should not be visiting, you might
:20:08. > :20:14.click on links they should not be, so even computing students are open
:20:15. > :20:19.to this type of attack. The main thing is if you receive an e-mail
:20:20. > :20:23.then you have to watch when you click on it. We have seen cases
:20:24. > :20:28.where a fishing e-mail is sent and it sent a message of your daughter
:20:29. > :20:33.has fallen at school, please contact us, attached is a document that will
:20:34. > :20:38.outline what happened. The parents will panic and click on the length
:20:39. > :20:44.and are affected by the software. What would you suggest people can do
:20:45. > :20:50.to protect against this? Users really need to back-up your files as
:20:51. > :20:53.much as possible and probably disconnect from the network. In
:20:54. > :20:58.order of protecting against something they just need to be savvy
:20:59. > :21:03.about some of the things that they actually get and to make sure that
:21:04. > :21:09.they are wise in changing passwords and so on. We have observed on
:21:10. > :21:16.broadband providers that a simple password reset is done with
:21:17. > :21:19.someone's mother 's maiden name, these days that kind of data can
:21:20. > :21:24.actually be sourced fairly easily, such as through Facebook. Thank you.
:21:25. > :21:26.If you are concerned about online security and want to
:21:27. > :21:28.find out more about precautions you could take, Police Scotland
:21:29. > :21:38.Joining me now to discuss the rest of the day's news are
:21:39. > :21:40.Shabnum Mustapha, former Liberal Democrat advisor and Ewan
:21:41. > :21:54.Welcome to you both. Let's kick off this evening with the fallout from
:21:55. > :21:59.last night the Lords revolt over working tax credits. Will the
:22:00. > :22:06.Chancellor wreak revenge over all of this? It certainly sounded like it
:22:07. > :22:11.today. Personally I have always supported and voted for an elected
:22:12. > :22:17.House of Lords but to be frank I have not been able to persuade the
:22:18. > :22:21.majority of the House of Commons. So while we have the House of Lords as
:22:22. > :22:24.it currently is I think it should respect the Constitutional
:22:25. > :22:29.convention that says the elected part of our Parliament votes on the
:22:30. > :22:34.financial matters and the unelected part doesn't. The government has
:22:35. > :22:40.announced a review into the workings of parliament, it will examine how
:22:41. > :22:42.to protect the ability of elected governments to secure their
:22:43. > :22:47.business. Is this the beginning of the end for the Lawrence? It could
:22:48. > :22:51.be, in the last parliament the Lib Dems and Tories had a deal to have
:22:52. > :22:57.the form of the House of Lords and the Tories broke that deal, we had
:22:58. > :23:00.90 Tories rebelling. This could have been done in the last Parliament and
:23:01. > :23:04.the could have had an elected chamber and we would not have had
:23:05. > :23:08.what happened last night so this has been a smoke screen to cover up the
:23:09. > :23:14.fact that George Osborne was humiliated yesterday. So you think
:23:15. > :23:19.it is all about revenge? Years trying to deflect attention from the
:23:20. > :23:22.bad use the and manufacture a constitutional crisis, there is no
:23:23. > :23:25.constitutional crisis. The House of Lords were within their rights do
:23:26. > :23:31.what they did. It was a statutory incident and was not a financial
:23:32. > :23:36.bill. If there is to be reform of the House of Lords then bring it on.
:23:37. > :23:42.Is it fair enough, you? You might be happy with the result that this is
:23:43. > :23:45.an unelected house taking action. The House of Lords itself is a
:23:46. > :23:50.constitutional crisis, it is ridiculous that you have an elected
:23:51. > :23:52.peers and awful I was agreeing with Church of England bishops and what
:23:53. > :23:57.they were saying about tax credits you have to remind yourself that
:23:58. > :24:01.this is a Church of England bishop in the legislature taking decisions
:24:02. > :24:04.about the laws of our country for no other reason than the are Church of
:24:05. > :24:09.England bishops so I think the House of Lords should be abolished, as it
:24:10. > :24:11.is we have the House of Lords and I do not think the Conservatives
:24:12. > :24:16.notwithstanding what George Osborne was seeing about an elected house,
:24:17. > :24:21.the majority of them support the House of Lords and if that is the
:24:22. > :24:26.system that supports, they have put in place, they refused to reform
:24:27. > :24:29.than what they should do is get out of it. They cannot complain when the
:24:30. > :24:34.system they support exercises their rights that done. The dead Sea in
:24:35. > :24:40.their manifesto that they saw a strong case for introducing an
:24:41. > :24:44.elected element into the House of Lords. It is very conveniently
:24:45. > :24:49.priority now, at the RCA 's about this then let's see what the review
:24:50. > :24:54.has got to say. It is the that in 21st-century Britain we have in an
:24:55. > :24:59.elected second chamber that make decisions about our day-to-day
:25:00. > :25:02.lives. It is right it is sorted but we must not forget about the serious
:25:03. > :25:08.debate about tax credit cuts that will impact on the working poor.
:25:09. > :25:10.There will just be a delay to aid rather than the bill being killed
:25:11. > :25:16.off so there is still concern out there for working people. Living to
:25:17. > :25:19.Catalonia, the Catalan parliament has declared the start of a process
:25:20. > :25:24.to create an independent Catalan state. The Spanish Prime Minister
:25:25. > :25:30.has vowed to use all political and legal means to block Catalan
:25:31. > :25:35.independence. How do you think this will play out? Just seeing the
:25:36. > :25:39.present they're point towards a podium talking about the
:25:40. > :25:43.constitutional issue brings back bad memories to the time when he used to
:25:44. > :25:47.push a podium to talk about the catastrophe of independence, he was
:25:48. > :25:53.normally talking about Scotland. I think some of his interventions were
:25:54. > :25:57.disgraceful and here we have a situation in Spain where unlike the
:25:58. > :26:03.British garment and you must credit the British government to recognise
:26:04. > :26:08.the mandate of the SNP which held a legal valid well-run referendum we
:26:09. > :26:11.have the situation here where he and his party will not even allow a
:26:12. > :26:17.referendum despite the fact that you have a majority in the Catalonian
:26:18. > :26:23.Parliament for independence. There is only 48% of seats, is it a bit
:26:24. > :26:27.risky to try and push ahead so aggressively with this? They want to
:26:28. > :26:33.hold the referendum and to be told you cannot hold a referendum, they
:26:34. > :26:36.then hold an election in which they say this is in effect an independent
:26:37. > :26:40.referendum and get the majority of seats, they are engaging in the
:26:41. > :26:46.Democratic process and the president is not. What do you think? Like you
:26:47. > :26:49.said they got 48% of the share of the public votes they did not quite
:26:50. > :26:54.reach the majority they wanted so public opinion is not all in favour
:26:55. > :26:59.of cessation so I am quite cautious on this because I am in favour of
:27:00. > :27:02.the UK but I think in terms of the processes they are going through I
:27:03. > :27:08.do not think this is the right way to do it, I would have preferred a
:27:09. > :27:12.referendum model. The wattage to hold a referendum and the Spanish
:27:13. > :27:15.government said you can't have that, they are actually threatening the
:27:16. > :27:18.Catalonian president with legal action for having the temerity to
:27:19. > :27:23.try and hold a consultative referendum. Before we end I want to
:27:24. > :27:28.talk about the BBC licence fee, the Culture Secretary has been talking
:27:29. > :27:32.about the BBC charter renewal process, he spoke about concerns
:27:33. > :27:37.that BBC online is causing problems for print journalism. The problems
:27:38. > :27:41.of newspapers go beyond the BBC but the express a firm view that the
:27:42. > :27:45.fact that you can access content that looks like longform journalism
:27:46. > :27:49.on the BBC website is clearly something they are unhappy about and
:27:50. > :27:55.phrases this question as to whether or not the BBC should be essentially
:27:56. > :28:01.entering the printed news market and that, I think, is a legitimate
:28:02. > :28:06.concern for them to express. Is BBC online killing local newspapers? I
:28:07. > :28:10.don't think it is, I think it is a tragedy what is going on in relation
:28:11. > :28:16.to the printed press in Scotland that I do not think that is the
:28:17. > :28:20.issue, there is a big issue across the western world with regards to
:28:21. > :28:24.print circulation. The issue with regard to the BBC in Scotland is do
:28:25. > :28:28.we want a proper national public service broadcaster in the way that
:28:29. > :28:31.we probably do not have at the moment, that would be good for
:28:32. > :28:36.newspapers and creative industries and democracy. It would be good to
:28:37. > :28:37.discuss that at more length. But we are out of time. Thank you both.
:28:38. > :28:42.I'll be back same time tomorrow night.