:00:00. > :00:00.Stabbing at an Aberdeen school - one 16-year-old boy is dead,
:00:00. > :00:29.Family and friends of schoolboy Bailey Gwynne are this evening
:00:30. > :00:36.He was stabbed at Cults Academy in Aberdeen during the school day.
:00:37. > :00:42.Has a Scottish University overreached its ambition?
:00:43. > :00:46.Two years on from setting up in New York, Glasgow Caledonian still
:00:47. > :00:49.doesn't have a licence to teach degree courses.
:00:50. > :00:52.And new research suggests we think of ourselves as Scottish,
:00:53. > :01:02.What will that mean for the in-out referendum?
:01:03. > :01:05.He went to school as normal, but didn't come home.
:01:06. > :01:08.16-year-old Bailey Gwynne was stabbed at his Aberdeen
:01:09. > :01:13.Police are treating the death at Cults Academy as a murder inquiry.
:01:14. > :01:15.Another 16-year-old male was detained after the emergency
:01:16. > :01:26.Huw Williams's report contains flash photography.
:01:27. > :01:32.The boy who died has been named locally as 16-year-old Bailey
:01:33. > :01:34.Gwynne. The headteacher at Cults Academy paid tribute him.
:01:35. > :01:40.The boy involved was a very gentle, caring pupil with a lot of friends.
:01:41. > :01:43.I think it's fair to say the whole school and community is
:01:44. > :01:47.But at the moment, of course, our thoughts are with
:01:48. > :01:50.the boy's family, his family and his friends, and what they must be
:01:51. > :02:09.I would just like to add Aberdeen City Council's deep consoles is to
:02:10. > :02:13.the family of the victim. -- condolences. Also to say the school
:02:14. > :02:17.will be closed to help with the police investigation for the next
:02:18. > :02:22.two days. We have a course put in place counselling and support for
:02:23. > :02:26.all staff and students and we send our condolences to all involved in
:02:27. > :02:30.this incident. Tonight, local people have been
:02:31. > :02:33.gathering at a later by church. At times like this, we feel terribly
:02:34. > :02:38.useless and there are no easy answers, but the one thing we felt
:02:39. > :02:43.we could do was open our church. It is a safe place, a listening place,
:02:44. > :02:46.it gentle place. It was something we could do tonight and we will do it
:02:47. > :02:50.again tomorrow. Earlier in the day, confusion and
:02:51. > :02:52.shock as people outside the school heard the news about what had
:02:53. > :02:57.happened. I've just arrived at the school to
:02:58. > :03:01.see police outside the door, I have three children in the school and I
:03:02. > :03:07.know nothing. There are many things going around,
:03:08. > :03:11.what has happened, what was used, who was involved. I called my
:03:12. > :03:13.brother straightaway, he he said he saw it but couldn't tell me
:03:14. > :03:17.anything. They are all being kept inside.
:03:18. > :03:21.The First Minister took to Twitter to express her thoughts at a local
:03:22. > :03:25.Councillor who went to the academy herself struggled to find the words
:03:26. > :03:29.to say what she wanted. It is sheer shock. When I was told
:03:30. > :03:33.of the incident and the subsequent death, I felt like I had been
:03:34. > :03:37.physically head. It was so unexpected. As a parent myself, I
:03:38. > :03:41.can only imagine the heartache that that family will go through.
:03:42. > :03:49.Police Scotland have confirmed they are currently conducting an murder
:03:50. > :03:56.investigation. A teenager is in custody.
:03:57. > :04:03.We have a team of staff you are interviewing unfortunately teens and
:04:04. > :04:07.teachers of Cults Academy you are significantly affected by this
:04:08. > :04:10.matter. Antennae a former student at Cults
:04:11. > :04:14.Academy had this message for students affected by what happened.
:04:15. > :04:22.It is incredibly important that they know that there were support
:04:23. > :04:25.available. I have 100% stated that the council and school will be
:04:26. > :04:29.available, if they are having concerns or difficulty dealing with
:04:30. > :04:32.this, they need just be the people. Police say they will be maintaining
:04:33. > :04:33.a presence in the area for the foreseeable future.
:04:34. > :04:36.We can cross live now to Aberdeen and speak to our reporter there,
:04:37. > :04:51.What is the latest? That 16-year-old boy is still being
:04:52. > :04:54.detained by police and clearly they will now continue, if they haven't
:04:55. > :04:57.already started, to question him about the incident that happened
:04:58. > :05:03.around lunchtime today in the school behind me, now specially trained
:05:04. > :05:08.family liaison officers are with Bailey Gwynne's family, clearly
:05:09. > :05:11.relaying to them information as they have it about what happened. What
:05:12. > :05:15.will happen next is police will begin if they have not already that
:05:16. > :05:18.process of taking statements. They said today that many, if not all, of
:05:19. > :05:23.the people who witnessed the incident that happened in the school
:05:24. > :05:28.today behind me were school pupils, so clearly this will be a very
:05:29. > :05:32.delicate and painstaking operation. Aberdeen City Council is offering
:05:33. > :05:37.counselling today and tomorrow and the rest of the week, in fact at any
:05:38. > :05:41.time to students and staff who have been affected by what has happened
:05:42. > :05:46.in the school. The school. This cool it for the rest of the week.
:05:47. > :05:52.Have you spoken to many of the parents their? What is the reaction
:05:53. > :05:59.amongst parents their? This is a very affluent part of
:06:00. > :06:03.Aberdeen. It is an area where many very well-paid people who work in
:06:04. > :06:07.the oil and gas industry in Aberdeen blazer. There are very high-value
:06:08. > :06:11.houses in this neighbourhood and this is an area where parents take
:06:12. > :06:16.an extremely keen interest in what is happening with their children and
:06:17. > :06:22.clearly a lot of those people will be extremely anxious and concerned
:06:23. > :06:27.today. In fact, outside the gates today this afternoon, and many other
:06:28. > :06:31.parents were here, perhaps just for reassurance, to be able to speak to
:06:32. > :06:35.their own children, but also to find out more about what has been
:06:36. > :06:38.happening. One particular parent is said today that they were
:06:39. > :06:42.considering withdrawing their children from the school. That is
:06:43. > :06:47.clearly something that is likely to be considered by many of the parents
:06:48. > :06:51.of students at the school today and of course the school itself, the
:06:52. > :06:54.head teacher and teaching staff and the City Council, will be seeking to
:06:55. > :06:58.try and reassure those parents about the safety of students within those
:06:59. > :06:59.corridors. Thank you very much.
:07:00. > :07:02.I am joined now by Jim Thewliss, who is the General Secretary
:07:03. > :07:07.of School Leaders Scotland, the body which represents headteachers.
:07:08. > :07:17.Thank you for coming in. What is your reaction to this?
:07:18. > :07:21.My reaction is the same as any other teacher, any other parent. First of
:07:22. > :07:27.all, shock at what has happened. It was a truly horrible incident. Going
:07:28. > :07:35.on from that, just the sheer waste of a young life and thereafter the
:07:36. > :07:38.trauma and the heart ache that two families, perhaps more than two
:07:39. > :07:44.families, in Aberdeen are going to have to put up with and live with
:07:45. > :07:48.going on from here. And the trauma and the challenge that the school
:07:49. > :07:51.will now face in supporting school staff and supporting the young
:07:52. > :07:57.people within the school and working within the school community, the
:07:58. > :08:01.wider school community, to get the school community past what has been
:08:02. > :08:10.a truly horrific experience. We have heard that there is support
:08:11. > :08:16.available for students. What about for the headteacher?
:08:17. > :08:20.There be support for the head teacher and students within the
:08:21. > :08:25.school and these teachers. My understanding is that the school
:08:26. > :08:28.authority well altogether along with the staff at the school to support
:08:29. > :08:32.the entire community. My organisation supports leadership
:08:33. > :08:35.throughout Scotland, leaders throughout Scotland, I have been in
:08:36. > :08:41.contact with the head teacher in the school. We will offer support in the
:08:42. > :08:45.normal way in which we weren't under the sort of circumstance.
:08:46. > :08:49.Obviously schools have a duty of care towards their students. How
:08:50. > :08:56.much can you do to keep them safe? Schools, teachers working with the
:08:57. > :09:00.parent body, work hard at making sure that the young people learn how
:09:01. > :09:05.to make correct choices. If they make correct choices, then the
:09:06. > :09:08.lifestyle which they lead will be a lifestyle which does not hinge on
:09:09. > :09:14.what we have seen this afternoon from time to time. Young people will
:09:15. > :09:24.make less than good choices from time to time, and carrying a knife
:09:25. > :09:30.is a choice. In the majority of occasions, we get through the young
:09:31. > :09:36.people that it is the bad choice to take. If you choose to carry a knife
:09:37. > :09:38.or choose not to carry a knife, you are not placed in the position to
:09:39. > :09:39.have the decision, we'll use it or not? In the majority of situations,
:09:40. > :09:42.we yet young people to make good choices in all aspects of the
:09:43. > :09:44.lifestyles. Thank you very much for coming in
:09:45. > :09:45.this evening. The market for university
:09:46. > :09:47.degrees and research is global. Scottish universities are competing
:09:48. > :09:50.at home and abroad for students, Two years ago, Glasgow Caledonian
:09:51. > :09:53.University became the first from the UK to open a campus in
:09:54. > :09:56.New York, as its international But the project has
:09:57. > :10:04.yet to pay dividends. The university is still working to
:10:05. > :10:06.win It's a Scottish university
:10:07. > :10:16.with global ambitions. Glasgow Caledonian is working to
:10:17. > :10:22.build its international reputation with college partnerships
:10:23. > :10:23.in Bangladesh and by opening New York is firmly established and
:10:24. > :10:30.beginning to thrive and beginning The university Principal
:10:31. > :10:41.seems happy with progress. But breaking into the New York
:10:42. > :10:44.market is proving far harder than They applied for degree granting
:10:45. > :10:50.authority in early 2013 and, two-and-a-half years later, they are
:10:51. > :11:05.still waiting to secure a licence. I always want Scottish universities
:11:06. > :11:10.to harness opportunities across the world, but we have here is a
:11:11. > :11:16.university's ambition going far ahead of what they can deliver in
:11:17. > :11:18.reality. What we are left with is a very expensive white elephant.
:11:19. > :11:20.University bosses say Labour's criticism is grossly unfair.
:11:21. > :11:23.It is a good investment, as far as we're concerned.
:11:24. > :11:27.We assessed the risks at the time and decided that it was
:11:28. > :11:42.In September 2013, they signed a 15-year lease
:11:43. > :11:49.The campus opened for business in April 2014 by Alex Salmond.
:11:50. > :11:57.?5.6 million had been spent by October of this year,
:11:58. > :12:10.although they insist none of this draws on public funds.
:12:11. > :12:14.that is the refit of the building and the staff we have there.
:12:15. > :12:16.It is worrying, in an age of wage restraint and
:12:17. > :12:19.austerity in general, that money is being used in quite a speculative
:12:20. > :12:22.project which the unions have always thought was too high-risk to get
:12:23. > :12:34.An international strategy could best be pursued through other means.
:12:35. > :12:38.Such as? Targeting markets within the European Union where we could
:12:39. > :12:41.have much easier links, working jointly with campuses in other
:12:42. > :12:44.countries including America, instead of launching our own campus.
:12:45. > :12:46.The New York campus has brought in some cash from teaching short,
:12:47. > :12:49.non-degree courses to business and securing its first research grant.
:12:50. > :12:52.It has also attracted some high-profile endorsements.
:12:53. > :12:54.Glasgow Caledonian is the first Scottish university to
:12:55. > :13:06.establish a campus here in New York and is a fantastic development.
:13:07. > :13:09.Glasgow Caledonian is not expecting to hear a decision on its New York
:13:10. > :13:11.application before the new year, but it remains convinced
:13:12. > :13:13.its international investment will eventually pay off.
:13:14. > :13:18.Joining me now to talk about the advantages and possible pitfalls of
:13:19. > :13:20.exporting Scottish education, from our Edinburgh studio, is Lindsay
:13:21. > :13:28.Paterson, Professor of Education Policy at Edinburgh University.
:13:29. > :13:35.Good evening. Tell me first of all, it is pretty risky to set up a
:13:36. > :13:39.Scottish university somewhere like New York, isn't it? It is not
:13:40. > :13:43.exactly short of top class universities. Why do we?
:13:44. > :13:47.This business of setting up what is sometimes called the branch campuses
:13:48. > :13:51.across the road became very fashionable at the ten years ago. It
:13:52. > :13:56.is honestly passed its peak, there is a lot fewer of these things going
:13:57. > :13:59.on. A lot of those that have done these kind of things, setting up
:14:00. > :14:04.campuses in Asia, setting up a campus in New York, oversupplied
:14:05. > :14:06.with universities, which has some very distinguished universities, to
:14:07. > :14:12.a the best universities in the world, does seem to me to be quite
:14:13. > :14:16.risky, bold, but not guaranteed to succeed.
:14:17. > :14:20.What does a foreign student get from attending say a Scottish university
:14:21. > :14:23.in their own country as opposed to coming to Scotland?
:14:24. > :14:27.There are good educational grants for really being quite skeptical
:14:28. > :14:32.about this process of the branch campuses. If we for example say that
:14:33. > :14:34.part of the advantage of coming to a multicultural university with
:14:35. > :14:38.students from across the world is that you meet people from across the
:14:39. > :14:41.world and also by coming to Tallinn or Britain or Europe, you of sort
:14:42. > :14:45.something out the throw open critical free debate that we write
:14:46. > :14:51.ourselves on celebrating here, then you're not going to get that. If
:14:52. > :14:56.you're campuses in a campus that is not liberal or open the if your boy
:14:57. > :14:59.to go to a liberal critical university in New York, you would
:15:00. > :15:04.think it would be better to go to one of the excellent universities in
:15:05. > :15:09.New York. That is a separate issue. Many the branch campuses are in
:15:10. > :15:12.areas that are quite problematic is far as free open to be is concerned.
:15:13. > :15:15.It is far more attractive on educational and the programmes to
:15:16. > :15:19.get people to come here rather than for if you stop to go there.
:15:20. > :15:23.Do you have any concerns about polity when this Scottish education
:15:24. > :15:28.is taken abroad? How is that monitor?
:15:29. > :15:30.The monitoring is in the hands of the universities autonomy 's bodies.
:15:31. > :15:34.They are entitled to do what they want with their money and hire staff
:15:35. > :15:38.anywhere in the world. I think the concert is not so much that they
:15:39. > :15:43.might be hiring the staff, but it is the number of staff is really quite
:15:44. > :15:45.small. If you come to a large university, most of the universities
:15:46. > :15:52.and Stalin are large, you come into contact potential in with many staff
:15:53. > :15:55.and hundreds of potentially a enormously diverse history, great
:15:56. > :15:59.libraries, great social facilities. You're not quick to get that in what
:16:00. > :16:00.are always really quite small branch campuses as burst across various
:16:01. > :16:11.countries across the world. Is there a danger it could damage
:16:12. > :16:15.the brand here? You would hope that the management is indeed making sure
:16:16. > :16:20.that the finances of thesent tease are ringfenced. They will not
:16:21. > :16:24.impinge on the viability of the universities here. There is the
:16:25. > :16:27.processes of public scrutiny and audit that would make sure that
:16:28. > :16:31.would be the case. There is no danger of actually a real threat to
:16:32. > :16:36.the core activity here. What is more of a danger is perhaps a damage to
:16:37. > :16:42.reputation. I mean, you could caricature this. It's not untrue pie
:16:43. > :16:48.by saying it's UK universities being under funded by the state trying to
:16:49. > :16:53.hock there goods across the world in a shoddy world. I think that's going
:16:54. > :16:55.too far. The things we're trying to do in education are tarnished
:16:56. > :16:58.slightly. Thank you very much for joining me.
:16:59. > :17:01.The Prime Minister warned today that the UK would lose out if we were to
:17:02. > :17:04.move to a relationship with the EU more like Iceland or Norway's.
:17:05. > :17:07.His comments come as new research suggests that fewer than one in
:17:08. > :17:18.David Cameron arrived in Iceland this evening ahead of an annual
:17:19. > :17:24.meeting with Nordic leaders. Before he left for the summit he was keen
:17:25. > :17:30.to challenge eurosceptic views that countries like Iceland and Norway
:17:31. > :17:35.thrive outside of the EU. Some who argue they want the UK to leave they
:17:36. > :17:40.are not burdened by membership fees and are free to strike their own
:17:41. > :17:43.trade deals. The Prime Minister questioned those who want to emulate
:17:44. > :17:49.a Norwegian-style relationship with the EU. Norway actually pays as much
:17:50. > :17:53.per head to the EU as we do. They actually take twice as many per head
:17:54. > :17:57.migrants as we do in this country. But, of course, they have no seat at
:17:58. > :18:02.the table, no ability to negotiate. As the debate on the future of
:18:03. > :18:05.Britain's place in Europe heats up, pollster's attentions have turned to
:18:06. > :18:12.our attitudes towards the European Union. Research published last week
:18:13. > :18:18.found that 58% of those living in Scotland wanted to remain and only
:18:19. > :18:23.28% wanted to leave the EU. This was in contrast to 45% in England
:18:24. > :18:32.wanting to stay, and 35% wanting to leave. So do Scots feel more
:18:33. > :18:36.European than the rest of the UK? New research published today
:18:37. > :18:40.suggests not. With only 9% of Scots identifying as European, compared
:18:41. > :18:46.with 15% in the rest of the UK. Overall, it's clear the UK doesn't
:18:47. > :18:48.feel as European as our continental neighbours, suggesting that
:18:49. > :18:53.arguments around economics and migration will be the main focus for
:18:54. > :18:56.both the leave and remain campaign groups.
:18:57. > :18:59.I am joined now from our Edinburgh studio by Rachel Ormston, who is
:19:00. > :19:01.co-director of the Scottish Social Attitudes survey
:19:02. > :19:07.and author of today's report - Do we feel European and does it matter?
:19:08. > :19:17.Good evening, Rachel. Does it matter The short answer is, not as much as
:19:18. > :19:21.other things. As your report said, people in Britain, as a whole, and
:19:22. > :19:26.particularly in Scotland, don't tend to say they feel particularly
:19:27. > :19:28.European when you ask them how they describe themselves as British,
:19:29. > :19:32.Scottish, English anything else with European on that list. European is
:19:33. > :19:36.not a particularly common answer. While it's true that people who do
:19:37. > :19:38.say they feel European are likely to want to stay in the EU actually
:19:39. > :19:45.amongst the bulk of people who don't most people say they want to stay in
:19:46. > :19:49.the EU. most people say they want to stay in
:19:50. > :19:50.kind of matters of identity are going to matter that much
:19:51. > :20:16.to identify as European as people in England? I was, initially. You
:20:17. > :20:20.expect in some ways, given the discussions of links with Nordic
:20:21. > :20:23.countries in the north Scotland and the alliances and the fact we know
:20:24. > :20:27.that people in Scotland are slightly more likely to be in favour of
:20:28. > :20:31.Britain staying in the EU that they would also feel more European. I
:20:32. > :20:32.think my hunch would be that actually in Scotland the debate
:20:33. > :22:30.around how Scottish we feel actually in Scotland the debate
:22:31. > :22:35.out during the Coatbridge College emergencier. MSP's on the public
:22:36. > :22:44.audit committee heard evidence today from the former college Principal,
:22:45. > :22:49.John Doyle. It's incomplete and vexatious. It was based on a scheme
:22:50. > :22:57.for all colleges in Lanarkshire. So I take exception to the way in
:22:58. > :23:02.which, as the auditor Auditor General said herself, limited
:23:03. > :23:05.evidence, our reputations have been absolutely trashed when we've done
:23:06. > :23:08.nothing wrong. What do you make of it all, Ruth? It's quite
:23:09. > :23:13.extraordinary when you think about it. It was described locally as
:23:14. > :23:17.three funerals and a wedding when these colleges got together. The
:23:18. > :23:20.fact remains a small number of senior managers got by far the
:23:21. > :23:24.lion's share of the severance payments. There is a strong
:23:25. > :23:29.suspicion that the Scottish funding council, who issued guidelines for
:23:30. > :23:31.these payments, Thai evidence wasn't properly considered by the
:23:32. > :23:38.remuneration committee in the college itself. I think, I mean he
:23:39. > :23:42.is perfectly entitled to say he has done nothing wrong. In the court of
:23:43. > :23:54.public opinion I would guess people think he has been well over commend
:23:55. > :24:00.xen compensated. What do you make of it? It's an extraordinary amount of
:24:01. > :24:03.money. Two-and-a-half years worth of pay he was awarded, Mr Doyle. If you
:24:04. > :24:08.step back from this process there has been a big structuring. Three
:24:09. > :24:11.colleges into one. Any business person doing a restructuring will
:24:12. > :24:16.tell you they will do that there will be redundancies. You are making
:24:17. > :24:21.post redundant. The process of managing those redundancies or
:24:22. > :24:26.managing the voluntariself recipes packages have been badly managed.
:24:27. > :24:31.Large sums of public money have been spent, I agree with Ruth,
:24:32. > :24:35.disproportionately towards those well-paid members of staff. It's
:24:36. > :24:39.pretty clear. Another story that involves vast sums of money. A
:24:40. > :24:44.multi-million-pound settlement has been reached with Fife Council over
:24:45. > :24:48.unequal pay. Let us listen in to what the two sides made of the deal.
:24:49. > :24:53.We are talking millions of pounds. And, we are working through the fine
:24:54. > :24:56.detail of that cost and as soon as we completed that exercise that will
:24:57. > :25:00.enable us to move forward and progress payments to staff and then
:25:01. > :25:06.to make public the overall cost to the council. It's a very significant
:25:07. > :25:12.multiple million pound cost which we will need to address alongside
:25:13. > :25:19.addressing the budget cap that we have going forward -- gap. It's in
:25:20. > :25:22.the order of ?75 million. It's not just about obtaining money for the
:25:23. > :25:28.women brave enough to take on their employer. Albeit that is incredible
:25:29. > :25:31.important. Unison obtained a commitment from the Council to look
:25:32. > :25:35.again at certain jobs we have concerns about that. That will
:25:36. > :25:39.ensure, going forward, that all women will be fairly paid within
:25:40. > :25:43.Fife. Bad for the Council, Ruth, pretty good news for the women
:25:44. > :25:48.involved? It's bad for the Council. I feel slightly sorry for the
:25:49. > :25:51.Council in as much they are having the sins of previous administrations
:25:52. > :25:55.visited on them at a time of huge austerity. This is a soap opera that
:25:56. > :26:02.has been ten years in the making. It goes back to a time when, for
:26:03. > :26:05.instance, male road sweepers and male refuge collectors were paid
:26:06. > :26:09.significantly more than women who were perhaps care assistants or
:26:10. > :26:13.catering assistants or classroom assistants. It was because deals
:26:14. > :26:17.were done. Some kind of weird deals were done where the men's jobs
:26:18. > :26:21.carried huge bonuses the women's jobs didn't. It's nice the unions
:26:22. > :26:25.are backing them now. At the time, at the beginning, the union was
:26:26. > :26:30.giving equal pay a bit of a body swerve, to be frank. Do you think
:26:31. > :26:34.attitudes have changed now, Kevin? You are an employer yourself. Are
:26:35. > :26:41.you surprised that that gap existed for people doing similar types of
:26:42. > :26:45.work? I am actually as an employer. There are three types of wage
:26:46. > :26:51.discrimination that happens. There is what is referred to as the
:26:52. > :26:55."motherhood penalty" occupational segregation. Those need addressing
:26:56. > :26:59.and will take time to address. What we are dealing with is direct
:27:00. > :27:03.discrimination. People doing the same job, jobs to the same value,
:27:04. > :27:09.being paid a different rate because of their gender. I find it kroerd in
:27:10. > :27:13.this day and age, 100 years since the suffragettes we are working
:27:14. > :27:18.through the progress of making sure we don't have gender segregation
:27:19. > :27:26.through pay. 40 years since the Equal Pay Act. Women are being paid
:27:27. > :27:30.80p in the ?1 against men is quite extraordinary. It's indefensively.
:27:31. > :27:34.It's a huge pay difficult reasonsal considering how long that
:27:35. > :27:37.legislation has been in place. I remember when that legislation came
:27:38. > :27:41.out. For instance, a major shoe chain in Scotland which overnight
:27:42. > :27:47.promoted all its men to assistant managers so they weren't doing work
:27:48. > :27:52.of comparable value to the female sales assistants. It's a
:27:53. > :27:59.longstanding soap opera. I'm glad these women got the money and it's
:28:00. > :28:05.sad today's Council had to pick up the tab. If we were more open,
:28:06. > :28:09.talked about our salaries? As an employer I always twitch when I hear
:28:10. > :28:12.that. I mean, certainly within our business, I've taken the view - you
:28:13. > :28:15.have to assume that everyone is talking to everybody and everybody
:28:16. > :28:21.know what is everybody is paid. But, they don't! But they don't. You
:28:22. > :28:25.should assume that. You could look any employee in the eye and defend
:28:26. > :28:29.what another employee is getting paid. Clearly in this case they
:28:30. > :28:35.couldn't. Finance you applied that rule to yourself you would end up
:28:36. > :28:37.with fair pay. Most small entrepreneurial to medium-sized
:28:38. > :28:45.businesses do that. The larger businesses and councils who get into
:28:46. > :28:49.difficulty. From every job job - We are out of time. We have to leave
:28:50. > :28:52.it. There we could talk for longer. Thank you for watching.
:28:53. > :28:55.I'm back the same time tomorrow night.