:00:00. > :00:00.Police Scotland comes under yet more pressure,
:00:00. > :00:26.this time on its inadequate call-handling system.
:00:27. > :00:32.On tonight's programme: A damning report in the wake of the M9 crash
:00:33. > :00:35.deaths concludes that oversight of the new police call-handling
:00:36. > :00:41.I'll be asking the Justice Secretary who should be held to account.
:00:42. > :00:43.And, should tenant farmers facing eviction be given
:00:44. > :00:54.An investigation into failures with Police Scotland's
:00:55. > :00:58.new national call-handling system has found a series of weaknesses.
:00:59. > :01:01.The police inspectorate raised concern about staffing levels
:01:02. > :01:03.at call centres, and said some workers
:01:04. > :01:08.had been put under high levels of pressure.
:01:09. > :01:11.The report came after police took three days to investigate
:01:12. > :01:25.Andrew Black reports. led to the deaths of two people.
:01:26. > :01:30.everyone expects our emergency services to be there for us in times
:01:31. > :01:38.of need. But, what happens when the system fails? The system failed John
:01:39. > :01:43.Yuill and Lamara Bell. In July, they were in a car crash on the M9.
:01:44. > :01:51.Police did not investigate a report about the incident, for three days.
:01:52. > :01:55.John Yuill was found dead at the scene, and Lamara Bell later died in
:01:56. > :02:00.hospital. Today, report by the police Inspectorate criticised the
:02:01. > :02:05.roll-out of Police Scotland's new call handling system. The brother of
:02:06. > :02:10.Lamara Bell said he hoped action would now be taken. I just want to
:02:11. > :02:15.see that there is change and that this can never happen again. It is
:02:16. > :02:19.good that this report has come out and has said that there are problems
:02:20. > :02:22.and things that need to be done, and hopefully, these will get put into
:02:23. > :02:28.place and we will start seeing changes. Today's report said that
:02:29. > :02:30.staffing levels at Bilston Glen, where the call regarding the M9
:02:31. > :02:35.crash was received were insufficient. They found examples of
:02:36. > :02:39.call handlers being put under pressure to end calls quickly. And
:02:40. > :02:44.it said there were questions over the stability of the call centre
:02:45. > :02:49.computer systems. What we found in terms of the call handling in
:02:50. > :02:54.particular was pressure from Police Scotland to meet deadlines and
:02:55. > :02:58.productivity to make sure that calls were answered quickly. We made a
:02:59. > :03:03.number of recommendations in the report to Police Scotland and the
:03:04. > :03:08.Scottish police authority to improve the way that they manage change. For
:03:09. > :03:11.the organisation representing rank and file police officers, the
:03:12. > :03:17.findings in the report came as little surprise. We have been saying
:03:18. > :03:22.for some time that the drive to save money has resulted in a degrading of
:03:23. > :03:26.service and that has been shown to be the case today. Meanwhile, Police
:03:27. > :03:34.Scotland said it would now take action. Today's report recognises
:03:35. > :03:37.that there have been challenges and issues for us and that we have made
:03:38. > :03:44.progress in meeting those challenges. We will go on to
:03:45. > :03:54.implement all of the recommendations in the report from HMICS. A separate
:03:55. > :03:59.inquiry when a police investigations and review commissioner specifically
:04:00. > :04:05.into the M9 crash which claimed two lives is ongoing.
:04:06. > :04:07.Shortly before we came on air Michael Matheson
:04:08. > :04:10.the Justice Secretary came into the studio.
:04:11. > :04:19.This report lays bare the way the new national call handling system
:04:20. > :04:26.was rolled out, too fast, too few staff. Who is accountable for that?
:04:27. > :04:33.The purpose behind this particular report was to provide us with
:04:34. > :04:36.assurance around the way police, and was taking forward the call handling
:04:37. > :04:41.arrangements put in place with the reform of call handling throughout
:04:42. > :04:45.Scotland. Clearly, there was a problem with call handling. Whose
:04:46. > :04:51.responsibility is that? The report highlights that from about October,
:04:52. > :04:56.November last year, to March, April of this year, there were challenges
:04:57. > :05:01.around with how they work coping with additional calls coming in as a
:05:02. > :05:08.result of the closure of sterling and claim bosses call centres. And
:05:09. > :05:12.the levels of staffing dealing with that additional workload coming into
:05:13. > :05:18.those particular call centres. That is something that you were warned
:05:19. > :05:21.about it in March. Willie Rennie was warning about problems with the
:05:22. > :05:27.Bilston Glen call centre saying that they were struggling to cope, back
:05:28. > :05:32.then. Why didn't you address that? Towards the end of March, we raised
:05:33. > :05:37.it with the Chief Constable and Deputy Chief Constable, the policy
:05:38. > :05:42.and also the Assistant Chief Constable about the issues round
:05:43. > :05:46.call handling matters. They try to identify exactly what the problems
:05:47. > :05:51.were, to then take action in order to address them. As the report
:05:52. > :05:54.highlights, as a result of those actions we improve the situation and
:05:55. > :05:59.stabilise the way that they were dealing with calls. Dealing with
:06:00. > :06:02.them much more effectively. When these concerns were raised by Willie
:06:03. > :06:07.Rennie, Police Scotland denied that there were any problems. You must be
:06:08. > :06:10.pretty cross that you were misled by the police on that. One of the
:06:11. > :06:14.things the report highlights is aware that information has been
:06:15. > :06:17.excavated through Police Scotland and they have identified problems.
:06:18. > :06:21.That is something that Police Scotland need to address as part of
:06:22. > :06:25.the 30 recommendations in this report, to have better management
:06:26. > :06:28.and quality assurance of the way in which they take forward this type of
:06:29. > :06:33.reform within the service. That is why it is essential that these
:06:34. > :06:39.recommendations are fully implemented to make sure that the
:06:40. > :06:46.issues identified by HMICS in this report are not repeated in any
:06:47. > :06:49.measures Police Scotland are taking forward with their call handling
:06:50. > :06:55.system. You seem to have been misled by police Scotland after Lamara Bell
:06:56. > :06:58.and John Yuill were found after the crash because they suggested that
:06:59. > :07:04.they had been no systemic failure, but we know now from this report
:07:05. > :07:11.that systemic failures were rife. It is important to recognise that the
:07:12. > :07:15.HMICS report doesn't look into the particular circumstances around the
:07:16. > :07:20.M9 report. We can see what the problems were, with call handling.
:07:21. > :07:25.That is being investigated by the police investigations and review
:07:26. > :07:28.commissioner and it is limited what I can say about that because it is
:07:29. > :07:34.being investigated by the Crown Office. The report identifies
:07:35. > :07:38.improvements Police Scotland have put in place to deal with calls that
:07:39. > :07:42.come into the command and control centres, and alongside that to
:07:43. > :07:46.provide assurances about the way that Police Scotland is dealing with
:07:47. > :07:54.these calls as a result of the audit which HMICS has taken. It gives us a
:07:55. > :07:58.level of assurance around how the police are dealing with these calls.
:07:59. > :08:00.We need to make sure that the recommendations are fully
:08:01. > :08:05.implemented, to make sure that we have a further reassuring is we need
:08:06. > :08:09.before any further training is implemented in future. If Stephen
:08:10. > :08:14.Howes had not been resigned already, wouldn't you be calling for his
:08:15. > :08:17.resignation? There are lessons to be learned for Police Scotland in how
:08:18. > :08:22.they manage this area of reform. Would you be calling him to account
:08:23. > :08:26.on this? Stephen Howes has stepped down as Chief Constable and we
:08:27. > :08:31.should accept that. He will finish up at the end of this month. It was
:08:32. > :08:35.on his watch. We need to make sure that the oversight and the way in
:08:36. > :08:40.which there is external oversight of these types of changes, are much
:08:41. > :08:43.more robust, so the role that the Scottish police authority has in
:08:44. > :08:49.making sure that they are analysing and looking at these issues
:08:50. > :08:52.critically, that is why the Scottish police authority has said it will
:08:53. > :08:55.provide a gateway review mechanism for these types of reforms to make
:08:56. > :08:58.sure that there was external input and validation of that before any
:08:59. > :09:02.changes take place in future. Now, do the Scottish Government's
:09:03. > :09:05.plans for land reform go far enough? Campaigners gathered at Holyrood
:09:06. > :09:07.today to demand more protection It comes
:09:08. > :09:13.as one farmer faces eviction in two weeks time after more than 20
:09:14. > :09:28.years farming land in East Lothian. It has been this way for centuries.
:09:29. > :09:32.And, through generations. Landowners leasing acres to tenant farmers who
:09:33. > :09:37.make their living from the land. Over the years, legislation has
:09:38. > :09:41.sought to offer protection to tenant farmers but a series of cases lately
:09:42. > :09:47.have brought the issue to light again. And restored art farms 500
:09:48. > :09:53.acres in East Lothian. He has been here since 1993. Investing and
:09:54. > :09:57.growing his business. He thought it would secure a long-term future, but
:09:58. > :10:01.at the end of this month, he, his wife and children will have to
:10:02. > :10:08.leave. It is totally devastating. We have spent 22 years here. Building
:10:09. > :10:14.the place up and making it a home. This chap -- it is just absolutely
:10:15. > :10:19.gutting to have to leave. He believed legislation brought in in
:10:20. > :10:26.2003 would give them security of tenure, but two years ago, the law
:10:27. > :10:30.was made ineffective and his landlord wants the land back. The
:10:31. > :10:35.trust has said that it would like to farm the land in hand itself and
:10:36. > :10:40.that is their prerogative. It is their land, it is their prerogative.
:10:41. > :10:45.They entered into the Tennessee with the rain free will and that is their
:10:46. > :10:49.decision. Several other farmers now face eviction because of this
:10:50. > :10:52.defective law. You have sons who have returned home in the
:10:53. > :10:57.expectation that there was security for them, that they could plan as a
:10:58. > :11:02.family for the future, so you now have sons with businesses with their
:11:03. > :11:06.fathers, and some of them have moved onto the next generation, so there
:11:07. > :11:12.is a profound human aspect to this position, whereby they as families
:11:13. > :11:17.do not know what the future holds for them. Today, land reform
:11:18. > :11:21.campaigners gather that Parliament, calling on the government to step
:11:22. > :11:27.in. We should address this as a matter of urgency given that the
:11:28. > :11:35.date is approaching fast, to see how we can help him because we don't
:11:36. > :11:39.want that, and that is why we want to do all we can to help him. Land
:11:40. > :11:43.reform is on the difficult -- political agenda, with a bill going
:11:44. > :11:46.through Parliament at the moment, but many here today think that it
:11:47. > :11:51.will not go far enough. The campaign here today don't think that the
:11:52. > :11:54.government's new land reform proposals are radical and if and
:11:55. > :11:58.they say that more needs to be done to protect them in farmers in huge,
:11:59. > :12:03.so that situations like Andrew's can't happen again. We need
:12:04. > :12:07.something like a restricted right to buy for tenant farmers, Abbot like
:12:08. > :12:11.crofters got, and it might apply to only 100 acres, but it means that
:12:12. > :12:15.the cottage or House that they are living in is something that they
:12:16. > :12:18.could own and the farms, things close to the House, things that they
:12:19. > :12:23.can own, and perhaps raise money against. Back on the farm in East
:12:24. > :12:28.Lothian, the sheep still need tending. And restored art can only
:12:29. > :12:33.hope for some compensation so that he can start again. The trust says
:12:34. > :12:36.that it is willing to discuss that with him and are willing to be
:12:37. > :12:38.flexible on when he can leave the farm cottage.
:12:39. > :12:42.I'm joined now by David Johnstone, chairman of Scottish Land
:12:43. > :12:43.and Estates Scotland, the body representing
:12:44. > :12:47.And, in Inverness is Angus McCall, chairman of the Scottish Tenant
:12:48. > :13:08.What do you think should happen in the case of Andrew Stoddart? He is
:13:09. > :13:15.in a difficult position. Legally he has to be out of the farm by the
:13:16. > :13:19.28th of November. The Government has said it will assist others are
:13:20. > :13:23.stepping in to give him a hand. We need to make sure that if he cannot
:13:24. > :13:31.stay in the farm he is able to relocate somewhere else. He must get
:13:32. > :13:43.the compensation due to him for all of the investment in the farm. At
:13:44. > :13:50.the end of the day this is due to a mistake made by the Government back
:13:51. > :13:55.in 2003. He will be due some sort of compensation by the Government. This
:13:56. > :14:01.defective legislation has caused a bit of a mess. What do you think of
:14:02. > :14:06.the response of the Scottish Government? So far it has been slow.
:14:07. > :14:13.We have known since 2013 that they will have two sort out the problems
:14:14. > :14:17.regarding these tenancies. They were encouraged to enter into mediation
:14:18. > :14:21.which has been slow to happen. It has gathered pace in recent weeks
:14:22. > :14:25.but not enough was done early enough to prevent the situation we are in
:14:26. > :14:31.now. This raises broader issues about the
:14:32. > :14:37.right to buy for example. Should tenant farmers have the right to buy
:14:38. > :14:43.the land that they work? The question of a right to buy has been
:14:44. > :14:50.on the political horizon for the last 15 years. In many circumstances
:14:51. > :14:55.there is a very compelling case by tenants should be able to buy their
:14:56. > :15:02.farms to give them security and collateral against which to borrow.
:15:03. > :15:07.And in many cases, particularly where you have a collection of
:15:08. > :15:13.tenants, and a landlord who has not of the pathetic, there is every
:15:14. > :15:20.reason why there should be some conditional right to buy. When you
:15:21. > :15:24.see somebody being pushed off their land, the land they have worked for
:15:25. > :15:29.20 years, I do comfortable with that? Do you think that is
:15:30. > :15:35.appropriate? What we have here is the need for a vibrant tenancy
:15:36. > :15:47.sector. We need more land to come into the tenanted sector. If we are
:15:48. > :15:53.going to encourage more landlords to release land to that sector they
:15:54. > :15:58.have two be confident that they are going to be honoured for the full
:15:59. > :16:03.length of that Agreement. An Agreement in place for a fixed
:16:04. > :16:07.period of time, 15 years, is now looked as a vehicle, that will not
:16:08. > :16:15.encourage more people to go into the market. The mess over the previous
:16:16. > :16:19.defective legislation is not going to encourage the Scottish Government
:16:20. > :16:28.to be more radical land reform plans now, is it? Having been around in
:16:29. > :16:31.2003 when the act went to, there was not the same amount of scrutiny with
:16:32. > :16:39.the legislation as is happening at the moment. I am confident that all
:16:40. > :16:53.the legislation proposed in the current Bill is fully up to speed as
:16:54. > :16:58.far as compliance with ECHR. There is also concern about the property
:16:59. > :17:02.rights of landowners. But it must not be forgotten that they are not
:17:03. > :17:06.the only people that have rights and tenant farmers have property rights
:17:07. > :17:11.as well because they have well established interest in the land.
:17:12. > :17:15.Any legislation has got to be a balance of rights between the two
:17:16. > :17:23.groups of people. I would be confident that the current Bill will
:17:24. > :17:28.be compliant. This is one of the reasons why it is being criticised
:17:29. > :17:32.for not being very radical because the Government are seeing it as a
:17:33. > :17:34.stepping stone to further land reform down the road and they do not
:17:35. > :17:38.want to get it wrong. Scotland's economy is going
:17:39. > :17:39.through a bumpy patch. Yesterday we learned
:17:40. > :17:42.of a slight improvement in output from private firms,
:17:43. > :17:45.but growth is still very weak and What's new about this is that
:17:46. > :17:53.the Scottish economy appears to be diverging from the rest of Britain,
:17:54. > :17:56.and not in a good way. Here's our business
:17:57. > :18:04.and economy editor, Douglas Fraser. In the past couple of decades of
:18:05. > :18:08.Scotland has come a long way to catching up with the rest of the UK.
:18:09. > :18:16.The north side dividers for the English. Growth, income, employment
:18:17. > :18:20.levels, Scotland was as good as the UK average and in some ways the best
:18:21. > :18:26.performer outside of London and the south-east. In recent months however
:18:27. > :18:31.an appointment in Scotland is above the UK average, job creation side of
:18:32. > :18:35.the border has been stronger. Growth is lagging far behind the rest of
:18:36. > :18:50.the country. The freezer of Al and Institute reduced its forecast from
:18:51. > :18:55.2.5% to less than 2%. If it were not for certain projects we could
:18:56. > :19:02.already be in recession. More private firms reported in eyes but
:19:03. > :19:07.last month. But that fill the month before. Manufacturing continues to
:19:08. > :19:13.contract. Another survey of manufacturers emphasised that
:19:14. > :19:20.problem. That said that there is deep pessimism. A lot is to do with
:19:21. > :19:26.the price of oil which has stayed low longer than was expected. Others
:19:27. > :19:32.who find energy prices lower should have more money in their pockets but
:19:33. > :19:40.they seemed reluctant to spend it. How much of the problems in the oil
:19:41. > :19:42.and gas sector to blame for the wider problems in the Scottish
:19:43. > :19:45.economy? If you are looking at the
:19:46. > :19:50.divergences between Scotland and the rest of the UK that is probably the
:19:51. > :19:54.best explain because it is a bigger part of the Scottish economy. It is
:19:55. > :19:58.distinctive about the Scottish economy. Yes, there are jobs and
:19:59. > :20:01.east of England dependent on oil and gas but Scotland has the
:20:02. > :20:06.concentration near. A lot of the countries operating -- lot of
:20:07. > :20:12.companies operating in that sector will to hold onto trained staff back
:20:13. > :20:16.in January when the place of a barrel hit $45. There was an
:20:17. > :20:21.expectation that by now the place would have come up. These are global
:20:22. > :20:26.forces at work and that has not worked out that we. The place
:20:27. > :20:34.remains very low. Demand is low from Asia and China in particular. Saying
:20:35. > :20:39.that that is going to be a sustained period of low prices, the North Sea
:20:40. > :20:44.is an expensive place to work. Companies are now having to shed
:20:45. > :20:46.workers and slash costs and investment.
:20:47. > :20:53.Should cheaper energy not boost other parts of the economy? Yes.
:20:54. > :20:57.Other parts of the UK, those that use energy and paper energy, that
:20:58. > :21:03.includes households, filling up the petrol tank, businesses that rely on
:21:04. > :21:07.oil, the plastics industry, you would have thought there would be
:21:08. > :21:14.more profitability, more cash left over, but in Scotland that money is
:21:15. > :21:30.not feeding through to spending, to business
:21:31. > :21:33.invest, they do not see the demand summer particularly for
:21:34. > :21:37.manufacturers. And householders may be paying down debt or saving
:21:38. > :21:41.money. You mentioned that manufacturing is
:21:42. > :21:46.deep in pessimism. Why is that? Trade is the main reason. For the
:21:47. > :21:50.whole of Britain, not just in Scotland, the pound sterling is very
:21:51. > :21:54.strong against the euro. Very tough to sell into European markets and
:21:55. > :21:59.beyond. Also we are vulnerable to those trying to sell them to our
:22:00. > :22:04.markets. Manufacturing is particularly exposed to that. The
:22:05. > :23:36.critical mass across the guest of Europe, services
:23:37. > :23:38.critical mass across the guest of is not broke, why fix it? The head
:23:39. > :23:43.of Robert Gordon University said they were accountable to no one. Is
:23:44. > :23:46.it not time that university balls were made accountable like any other
:23:47. > :23:52.organisation? They are accountable at the moment. That is the role of
:23:53. > :23:59.university courts. There are two issues. There is an issue of
:24:00. > :24:04.governance. Maybe it is time in some university situations where they
:24:05. > :24:12.make up of the governance is slightly different. But that is
:24:13. > :24:16.singularly different than having ministers controlling the strings
:24:17. > :24:21.behind the scenes. I agree, it is important for democracy that
:24:22. > :24:26.universities are totally independent. And, yes, they are
:24:27. > :24:32.accountable to the students. The students can voice their opinions. A
:24:33. > :24:37.number of universities in Scotland have staff on the university courts.
:24:38. > :24:43.You need that inputs but you do not need Government behind the scenes
:24:44. > :24:48.making their desires known. It looks like a U-turn. Nicola
:24:49. > :24:51.Sturgeon has said repeatedly she wants to be judged on how
:24:52. > :24:57.Government's record and education. Is this a good thing for her or a
:24:58. > :25:05.bit embarrassing? That is a difficult one. It is a good thing to
:25:06. > :25:12.recognise that people object to this policy, this meddling. The very fact
:25:13. > :25:22.that the Government tried to almost sneak it in under the radar and hope
:25:23. > :25:26.that no one would pick up on it meant that two people in the street
:25:27. > :25:31.it's means nothing. But is that a good thing? Rituals they are either
:25:32. > :25:41.listening they have been caught out. Let us move to Westminster.
:25:42. > :25:48.The SNP has threatened to block Sunday trading laws. That prompted a
:25:49. > :25:57.heated exchange on the daily politics between the SNP and Lord
:25:58. > :26:01.Digby Jones. We are not bringing forward
:26:02. > :26:07.protections for people. That is an excuse. An excuse to protect the
:26:08. > :26:10.poorest people. In the Midlands of England would you take exception to
:26:11. > :26:15.him coming up to Edinburgh to tell you what to do with your shops. I
:26:16. > :26:22.take exception... Answer the question. Tax credit cats will
:26:23. > :26:28.affect hundreds of thousands of people in Scotland. What do you make
:26:29. > :26:32.of the SNP position on this? It is a tricky one. I am not surprised that
:26:33. > :26:36.Digby Jones responded in immunity did. If I was living in England I
:26:37. > :26:41.would be feeling the same and feeling very pleased about it. But I
:26:42. > :26:47.remember when the original Sunday trading laws came in. And I was
:26:48. > :26:50.living in England at the time. And at that time shop workers were
:26:51. > :26:55.guaranteed that they were going to get double-time, they were going to
:26:56. > :27:00.get one and a half times before working at a weekend. That was
:27:01. > :27:09.completely eroded. It has been eroded. Scottish workers are much
:27:10. > :27:12.better rewarded. The are getting paid for working those anti-social
:27:13. > :27:19.hours. I have got sympathy both sides. Taking a stand for one of the
:27:20. > :27:23.most vulnerable of our employment sectors is actually a good thing.
:27:24. > :27:27.But if I was living south of the border maybe I would say things
:27:28. > :27:31.slightly differently. Is it a tenuous justification for the SNP to
:27:32. > :27:35.read into this when actually it could be argued that does not affect
:27:36. > :27:42.Scotland? We know what the politics are. The self denying ordinance of
:27:43. > :27:47.not putting in legislation that only affects legislation in England and
:27:48. > :27:52.Wales was abandoned during the fox hunting debate earlier this year.
:27:53. > :27:58.They have got 56 MPs. They want to show they have got muscle in holding
:27:59. > :28:05.the Tory Government's feet to the fire. That is the politics. It is a
:28:06. > :28:11.win -win situation for the SNP in many ways. What was said about shop
:28:12. > :28:21.workers, we just conditions, people in retail, their wages are not
:28:22. > :28:27.great. There is a fair if it becomes a normal trading day, Sunday, across
:28:28. > :28:33.the UK, retailers will adjust wage rates to suit. Do you think this
:28:34. > :28:39.Scottish voters will be impressed by the stance that the SNP has taken? I
:28:40. > :28:44.would like to think that they were but I am sure there is going to be
:28:45. > :28:52.huge division of opinion. Do not forget that the conservative lobby
:28:53. > :28:59.that is going to vote against that, that has been missed by the media.
:29:00. > :29:05.That is all for tonight. Goodbye.