:00:00. > :00:00.The Prime Minister says bombing Syria will make us safer.
:00:07. > :00:30.David Cameron says we can't outsource
:00:31. > :00:36.But would British bombs make a difference in Syria?
:00:37. > :00:42.Difficult decisions ahead for the Scottish Government.
:00:43. > :00:48.Unless the Prime Minister answers these questions satisfactorily, the
:00:49. > :00:49.Scottish National party will not vote for your strikes in Syria.
:00:50. > :00:51.Difficult decisions ahead for the Scottish Government.
:00:52. > :00:53.Can they end austerity without raising taxes?
:00:54. > :00:55.And could pioneering work by Scottish scientists help explain
:00:56. > :01:07.The Prime Minister set out his case for British air strikes
:01:08. > :01:12.He told MPs that bombing Isis militants would make us safer
:01:13. > :01:16.and argued the UK could not outsource its security to allies.
:01:17. > :01:18.But the SNP says it won't support The Prime Minister
:01:19. > :01:23.unless he can address key questions that remain unanswered.
:01:24. > :01:26.Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says he'll vote against air strikes,
:01:27. > :01:29.a stance which puts him at odds with a number of his own MPs.
:01:30. > :01:38.Mike Grundon has been following the debate.
:01:39. > :01:44.British warplanes are already taking part in the US and French led
:01:45. > :01:49.bombing of Isis targets in Iraq but unlike their allies they are not
:01:50. > :01:53.crossing the border into Syria. The Prime Minister says it makes no
:01:54. > :02:00.sense. We face a fundamental threat to our security. We cannot wait for
:02:01. > :02:04.a political transition. We must hit the terrorists in their heartlands
:02:05. > :02:09.right now and we must not shirk our responsibility for security or hand
:02:10. > :02:12.it to others. Throughout our history, the United Kingdom has
:02:13. > :02:19.stood up to defend our values and our way of life. We can and we must
:02:20. > :02:23.do so again. Mr Cameron said seven terrorist plots had been foiled by
:02:24. > :02:29.security services in the past year, all linked to Isis. The reaction in
:02:30. > :02:33.the house to his call for action appeared split today. Not along
:02:34. > :02:36.party lines but putting those who supported his position and those who
:02:37. > :02:45.wanted to know more before committing to it. All that Isis
:02:46. > :02:49.stands for is contrary to everything we stand for. There is no doubt it
:02:50. > :02:53.poses a threat to our people. The question must now be whether
:02:54. > :02:59.extending UK bombing from Iraq to Syria is likely to reduce or
:03:00. > :03:05.increase that threat. Jeremy Corbyn has written to Labour MPs explaining
:03:06. > :03:09.that he cannot support extending military action. Parliament watchers
:03:10. > :03:12.described today's debate as measured and showing the house at its best.
:03:13. > :03:20.They say there was little political point scoring but plenty of
:03:21. > :03:25.thoughtful responses. Two years ago, the Prime Minister urged us to bomb
:03:26. > :03:30.the opponents of Isis in Syria. That would probably have strengthened
:03:31. > :03:33.this terrorist organisation. Today the Prime Minister wants us to
:03:34. > :03:39.launch a bombing campaign without effective ground support in place.
:03:40. > :03:42.Or a fully costed reconstruction and stability plan. The Prime Minister
:03:43. > :03:48.has asked us to consider his plan. We have listened closely. However,
:03:49. > :03:53.key questions posed by the foreign affairs select committee remain
:03:54. > :03:57.unanswered and unless the Prime Minister answers these questions
:03:58. > :04:01.satisfactorily, the Scottish National party will not vote for
:04:02. > :04:05.your strikes in Syria. The chairman of the Defence Select Committee
:04:06. > :04:09.later gave a personal view of what he thought was the big question. I
:04:10. > :04:14.will not be voting for your strikes which alone will be indecisive
:04:15. > :04:18.because I want to see a military strategy which will work and that
:04:19. > :04:26.has to involve the Syrian army, whether Assad is president or not.
:04:27. > :04:30.That is my personal opinion. Today's debate did not lead to a
:04:31. > :04:34.vote in fact no date has been set. But it gave people a chance to lay
:04:35. > :04:35.out their position on the issue, or at least what their position is
:04:36. > :04:36.today. Well, the Prime Minister is expected
:04:37. > :04:40.to call a Commons vote as early But what difference would British
:04:41. > :04:43.military intervention really make Joining me from our Edinburgh studio
:04:44. > :04:46.is Rae McGrath from the humanitarian organisation Mercy Corps, and from
:04:47. > :05:03.London, Malcolm Chalmers of the Welcome to you both. Malcolm
:05:04. > :05:09.Chalmers, the Prime Minister says arming Isis in Syria will make us
:05:10. > :05:14.more safe stop is that possible? I think it is possible. The impact in
:05:15. > :05:20.the UK is not going to be significant in the short term either
:05:21. > :05:25.way. We are already involved in bombing Isis in Iraq and it will be
:05:26. > :05:30.a long time before their capability for launching terrorist attacks in
:05:31. > :05:35.Europe is significantly degraded. As your presenter made clear, we are
:05:36. > :05:38.already involved in the bombing campaign in Syria by providing
:05:39. > :05:47.refuelling and command and control. Our aircraft tracked Isis militants
:05:48. > :05:50.on the ground. We then pass the target to American or French planes
:05:51. > :05:56.to finish the job. We are involved already. It was put forward as a
:05:57. > :06:01.central argument today by the Prime Minister that we will become safer
:06:02. > :06:04.if we are involved in military intervention in Syria. Is that he
:06:05. > :06:11.did not reason for air strikes against Isis? My concern is that we
:06:12. > :06:19.are consistently seeing the Syrian more from our perspective of whether
:06:20. > :06:27.we can make life for us safer. We have 7.5 million displaced people in
:06:28. > :06:32.Syria and adding more bombing to what is already a terrifying
:06:33. > :06:40.situation to people who have no real reserves left, that is not gone to
:06:41. > :06:44.make things better, it will make things worse. More refugees leaving
:06:45. > :06:52.Syria, more refugees coming to Europe. It is hard for me to
:06:53. > :07:02.understand how that will make things better. Will it make the situation
:07:03. > :07:08.worse? I think the strongest better. Will it make the situation
:07:09. > :07:27.argument for the current coalition air campaign against Isis, which
:07:28. > :07:32.argument for the current coalition overrun by Isis, as would have been
:07:33. > :07:35.the case in Iraq. There is a strong humanitarian argument in favour of
:07:36. > :07:41.providing protection for Kurds who are prepared to fight Isis on the
:07:42. > :07:49.ground to protect their homes, but they need support from others in the
:07:50. > :07:53.area. That has been effective in Kobane were other regional states
:07:54. > :09:54.have not been prepared to support them.
:09:55. > :09:57.have not been prepared to support It is not clear to me why selecting
:09:58. > :10:02.Isis as a target to bring an end to the war is going to help. It is a
:10:03. > :10:09.very complex situation. Malcolm Chalmers still you think the Prime
:10:10. > :10:15.Minister has made a strong enough case? It is a very difficult issue
:10:16. > :10:21.and I think you can argue both sides of the case. Personally, I think it
:10:22. > :10:25.is wrong to say we should only get involved in a military campaign in
:10:26. > :10:32.Syria if we have a complete political solution to Syria, because
:10:33. > :10:34.we clearly do not have that. Most of the external powers involved are
:10:35. > :10:44.more interested in the war between the regime and the rebels, Iran,
:10:45. > :10:49.Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Russia. If we are convinced that an air
:10:50. > :10:53.campaign will make a difference and save lives on the ground and help to
:10:54. > :11:00.push back Isis then I think it is worthwhile. We do not have to make a
:11:01. > :11:06.complete case for solving all the problems of Syria. That was the
:11:07. > :11:11.approach we had in Iraq and Afghanistan where we had to solve
:11:12. > :11:15.all the problems and it is just not possible. Thank you both for coming
:11:16. > :11:15.in. After the Chancellor's U-turn
:11:16. > :11:17.on working tax credits, the newspapers this morning
:11:18. > :11:19.heralded "the end of austerity". George Osborne is still planning
:11:20. > :11:25.to cut ?12 billion from welfare And the news for Scotland
:11:26. > :11:31.was grimmer than expected. Yes, capital spending is up,
:11:32. > :11:34.but day-to-day spending will see a drop in real terms
:11:35. > :11:38.of ?1.5 billion a year. In a moment, we'll discuss what
:11:39. > :11:44.the Scottish government might do. Swinney, Swinney, Swinney, out, out,
:11:45. > :11:51.out! Swinney, that is,
:11:52. > :11:58.as there are protests at Holyrood, Dash-mac Labour councillors protest
:11:59. > :12:08.at Holyrood. People will minimise it
:12:09. > :12:11.at the sharp end but by the same token, no matter the service we
:12:12. > :12:14.provide, and we do so to the best of our ability but we cannot
:12:15. > :12:17.continue under the circumstances. But John Swinney says he is out to
:12:18. > :12:32.protect services like these affordable homes.
:12:33. > :12:34.He announced 330 million It was said that the Chancellor
:12:35. > :12:45.had brought good news with I thought you might have had a more
:12:46. > :12:50.cheerful disposition today. For years, he has called for more money
:12:51. > :12:56.for capital spending and the Chancellor has delivered a 14%
:12:57. > :13:00.increase. John Swinney said capital plans only just compensated for
:13:01. > :13:06.earlier cuts. He will be Taylor's plans in three weeks. Today, the
:13:07. > :13:09.guiding principles. We will be driven by our principles of
:13:10. > :13:13.establishing a system which is fair and progressive and creating a
:13:14. > :13:18.sustainable economy that has opportunities for all in Scotland.
:13:19. > :13:24.Earlier, angry exchanges over a sharp decline in oil revenues.
:13:25. > :13:28.Labour claimed the SNP painted a misleading picture during the
:13:29. > :13:33.referendum. It would be bad enough if the government had been off by
:13:34. > :13:41.ten or 20% but the First Minister was out by 6000%. 6000% on the money
:13:42. > :13:47.needed to fund our schools, hospitals and pensions. The day
:13:48. > :13:52.after George Osborne's budget, which announced plans to reduce the
:13:53. > :13:58.revenue budget of this Parliament by ?1.5 billion in real terms over the
:13:59. > :14:02.remainder of this decade, what does she do? That should exercise their
:14:03. > :14:09.Conservatives? No, she plays politics with the SNP. And so on to
:14:10. > :14:14.John Sunny's detailed budget which will be presented to Parliament on
:14:15. > :14:19.December 16. It will form a core element of political debate in the
:14:20. > :14:23.run-up to Holyrood elections next year. Opposition parties want to get
:14:24. > :14:28.away from the constitutional debate and move onto a challenge to the SNP
:14:29. > :14:33.to say what they would do with new tax and welfare powers which are
:14:34. > :14:38.coming the way of Holyrood. John Swinney intends to rise to that
:14:39. > :14:43.challenge but he wants to tread a line between condemning constraints
:14:44. > :14:46.upon spending from the UK Government, and demonstrating his
:14:47. > :14:50.capacity to ameliorate those constraints.
:14:51. > :14:54.So has the Chancellor cleverly backed the SNP into a corner with
:14:55. > :14:58.Shortly before we came on air, I spoke to Russell Gunson
:14:59. > :15:00.from the Institute for Public Policy Research Scotland,
:15:01. > :15:09.How much of a problem is the Scottish Government facing? Scotland
:15:10. > :15:13.as a whole is the an enormous challenge from this Spending Review,
:15:14. > :15:19.with the real terms cut in each of the next four years overall to the
:15:20. > :15:23.budget. But moreover, that would be hard enough after five-year is
:15:24. > :15:27.spending increases, but this comes on the back of five years of
:15:28. > :15:32.posterity already. So they are getting new tax welfare powers in
:15:33. > :15:35.April. If they use the new tax powers to reverse the spending cuts
:15:36. > :15:41.entirely, how much wood income tax have rise? As an illustration rather
:15:42. > :15:50.than a suggestion, it would take 3p in the pound to reduce these cuts.
:15:51. > :15:53.However, whether that is possible politically or even desirable is
:15:54. > :15:58.another question, and it is more an idea of the scale of the challenge
:15:59. > :16:02.that Scotland as a whole theses rather than a potential policy we
:16:03. > :16:06.are suggesting. Are there other things the Government could do to
:16:07. > :16:10.offset these cuts, or RE saying they are going to have to think about
:16:11. > :16:15.spending cuts? Scotland and the Scottish parliament as a whole has a
:16:16. > :16:20.choice, and the choice with the new powers is either to raise tax
:16:21. > :16:26.revenue - that can happen of course to raising taxes, but also drew
:16:27. > :16:30.growing her economy - or secondly to work out where are these cuts are
:16:31. > :16:34.best made. It may be a mix of those. It may be that the Scottish
:16:35. > :16:38.parliament chooses to end these cuts and end this territory in Scotland.
:16:39. > :16:46.It is a debate that absolutely needs to involve the whole of Scotland. It
:16:47. > :16:50.is not just the SNP that will have to set out his plans before the next
:16:51. > :16:57.election on how they will use these powers, if they were use. There is a
:16:58. > :17:01.challenge for the whole of Scotland here, in that we have an election
:17:02. > :17:05.next year that will at least set the long-term direction for the Scottish
:17:06. > :17:09.Parliament. We have a budget before them from John Swinney that again,
:17:10. > :17:15.whether it is one year, two years, the full four years, will lay out
:17:16. > :17:19.some plans. But this is a debate that is an absolutely huge one that
:17:20. > :17:26.needs to match the challenge we are facing, which is enormous. It sounds
:17:27. > :17:31.premature, then, to talk about the end of posterity. Absolutely. These
:17:32. > :17:37.are deep cuts in themselves. The back of five years of austerity
:17:38. > :17:42.across the UK, it is a challenge for Scotland, for local authorities
:17:43. > :17:48.across the UK. The idea of an end of austerity is premature. There is no
:17:49. > :17:53.change to the amount the Chancellor is hoping to save in terms of
:17:54. > :18:02.welfare spending cuts, so do we know, yet, hoodies are going to fall
:18:03. > :18:10.on? In terms of welfare, it looked at face value less bad than we
:18:11. > :18:16.expected, in the U-turn on tax credits. However, tax credits are
:18:17. > :18:19.being phased out and universal credits Baisden, and the cuts to
:18:20. > :18:22.universal credit are being phased out and universal credits based on,
:18:23. > :18:24.and the cuts to universal credit or maintain. So therefore the cuts are
:18:25. > :18:30.delayed rather than stopped. So you are right to suggest that the
:18:31. > :18:33.poorest in Scotland may well still face the same amount of Scots as
:18:34. > :18:38.they were expected to from the summer budget. We must leave it
:18:39. > :18:39.there. Thanks for coming in this evening.
:18:40. > :18:43.For the first time in 50 years, Scottish scientists are working
:18:44. > :18:45.with an entirely new type of solid matter.
:18:46. > :18:48.Well, these so-called "spontelectric"
:18:49. > :18:53.materials could help explain a pretty fundamental question -
:18:54. > :18:57.Our science correspondent Kenneth Macdonald explains,
:18:58. > :19:20.Space - not quite as empty as you might think. In the intense vacuum
:19:21. > :19:25.and a low temperatures of space, close of DOS, gas and simple
:19:26. > :19:29.molecules, they are at the nursery were stars are being born. At
:19:30. > :19:35.Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh, they are creating the same
:19:36. > :19:41.conditions, only for smaller scale. What we have here is a vacuum
:19:42. > :19:46.chamber. At the top we have our refrigerator. And they have created
:19:47. > :19:49.a vacuum like that in interstellar space. We work at variable
:19:50. > :19:55.pressures. If you think about your household vacuum cleaner, the
:19:56. > :20:01.pressure is about 100 of atmospheric. -- very low pressures.
:20:02. > :20:05.We go to 100 billionth of atmospheric pressure.
:20:06. > :20:16.We can also kill down the inside of that to just a few degrees above
:20:17. > :20:18.absolute zero. It's all to create a new type of stuff.
:20:19. > :20:24.it can be a crystal like this metal.
:20:25. > :20:30.If is more irregular, then it is like this glass.
:20:31. > :20:32.But what is in there, spontelectrics, is a new form
:20:33. > :20:43.a gas like carbon monoxide becomes a solid, with massive electric field,
:20:44. > :20:56.Because the conditions in the lab mimic those where
:20:57. > :20:59.it could explain why a sun like our own was the right
:21:00. > :21:12.We need molecules to help form small stars.
:21:13. > :21:14.Without small stars you don't necessarily get stars that
:21:15. > :21:22.live very long and you don't get evolution.
:21:23. > :21:27.so the idea of having small stories is linked together.
:21:28. > :21:28.Spontelectrics was first created in Denmark.
:21:29. > :21:32.Heriot-Watt University is taking them forward.
:21:33. > :21:40.But so far, spontelectrics are too small to see.
:21:41. > :21:50.To give you a size scale, the human here is about a micron across, one
:21:51. > :21:57.made from eater. We are working with things typically between ten and 15
:21:58. > :22:05.nanometres, which is 100 times smaller. We can't see them. They are
:22:06. > :22:12.very volatile, hence the low temperatures. And we have to look at
:22:13. > :22:17.them indirectly. This research is that a very early stage. One
:22:18. > :22:20.potential spin off could be better video displays. More intriguingly,
:22:21. > :22:22.it could explain why we are all here.
:22:23. > :22:26.With me this evening are two seasoned commentators - the author
:22:27. > :22:31.David Torrance and the Guardian's Scotland correspondent Libby Brooks.
:22:32. > :22:38.Welcome to you both. Let's top first of all about the Spending Review as
:22:39. > :22:42.the dust settles and we try to work out what it all means. One thing is
:22:43. > :22:47.clear - the Scottish Government will have to make tough decisions on
:22:48. > :22:57.spending. We heard Russell Gunson from the IPPR earlier saying income
:22:58. > :23:04.tax would have to do raised by 3p a band. Do you think any party would
:23:05. > :23:08.seriously consider those kind of income tax rises? No. Across all
:23:09. > :23:12.parties across the last decade or so, there has been a quiet consensus
:23:13. > :23:21.that income tax never goes up. It stays the same rate gets cut. There
:23:22. > :23:27.is ably right orthodoxy that you don't win the election pledging tax
:23:28. > :23:30.increases. When you're on a fixed budget, the blog rant is getting
:23:31. > :23:38.squeezed year after year, and you're not prepared to put up tax, you have
:23:39. > :23:41.to cut. We see complaints from Scottish local authorities at the
:23:42. > :23:47.moment, that is really starting to bite. There is not much there that
:23:48. > :23:52.can be sliced from local authority and departmental budgets. Has the
:23:53. > :23:57.Chancellor backed them into a corner of your? It certainly does seem that
:23:58. > :24:01.Osborne has thrown down the gauntlet to Swinney to see what he is going
:24:02. > :24:05.to do in the budget that is coming up at the beginning of December. The
:24:06. > :24:10.problem that he faces, of course, is that these new taxes, the new tax
:24:11. > :24:16.powers coming to Scotland, are also causing problems before they have
:24:17. > :24:23.even started. The Office for Budget Responsibility was forecasting that
:24:24. > :24:26.the London buildings transaction tax and the new Scottish income tax
:24:27. > :24:32.aren't going to bring back as many receipts as people had expected, and
:24:33. > :24:39.that does mean a difficult balancing act for Swinney. And of course, the
:24:40. > :24:43.guests from the IPPR was hoping for a mature and sensible debate in the
:24:44. > :24:48.run-up to Holyrood elections. Is there any hope of that? I think it's
:24:49. > :24:51.extremely unlikely. The Spending Review has changed the dynamic, of
:24:52. > :24:57.course. Scottish Labour was hoping it would be set up for this
:24:58. > :25:00.substantial policy debate about mitigating tax credit cuts, but
:25:01. > :25:04.there are going to be no tax credit cuts at least in the short-term. So
:25:05. > :25:10.that puts Scottish Labour in a difficult position. We will see what
:25:11. > :25:14.they know campaign on, that strategy was set out. It also gets John
:25:15. > :25:18.Swinney off the hook to an extent. He doesn't have to find the money to
:25:19. > :25:23.mitigate that. But still the pressure is on in terms of what he
:25:24. > :25:25.may do with income tax powers. More gloomy news for the Scottish
:25:26. > :25:31.Government and for Aberdeen since last year. Actors and 500 people
:25:32. > :25:37.have lost their jobs in the North Sea oil industry. -- 5500. At First
:25:38. > :25:44.Minister's Questions, Nicola Sturgeon reacted angrily when
:25:45. > :25:50.Scottish Labour use this as a stick to beat her with. This is a
:25:51. > :25:54.challenging time for the oil and gas sector, which is why the task force
:25:55. > :26:00.I established earlier this year is working hard to support the industry
:26:01. > :26:04.at this time. But every time people here laboured gleefully crowing
:26:05. > :26:10.about the challenges in the oil and gas sector, they realised how little
:26:11. > :26:15.Labour actually care about people's jobs and livelihoods. She came out
:26:16. > :26:18.fighting there, but she seemed a bit rattled, didn't she? I do think it
:26:19. > :26:24.is they are enough for her to point out that it is not the SNP's fault
:26:25. > :26:28.that the oil prices plummeting. Regardless how you feel about their
:26:29. > :26:33.fastness and looseness with the predictions during the referendum
:26:34. > :26:43.campaign. But it is difficult. It is also, given that those tax receipts
:26:44. > :26:47.do actually go to the Treasury, it is technically up to George Osborne
:26:48. > :26:51.to sort this out. But the pain is felt up here in Scotland. It is
:26:52. > :27:03.gorgeous jobs and Scottish families affected. But politically a problem?
:27:04. > :27:07.I have spoken to some in the parties say they will bounce back, and they
:27:08. > :27:11.have a point. We have been here before. There was a similar crash in
:27:12. > :27:21.the mid-19 80s. But you can't rely on that. It is volatile, and we have
:27:22. > :27:26.seen that over the past year or so. So it's bad timing, it is bad lot,
:27:27. > :27:33.not only for those involved, but politically for the SNP. I thought
:27:34. > :27:40.the First Minister's response was a bit weak. She threw it back at Kezia
:27:41. > :27:48.Dugdale and accused her of hypocrisy. But because the SNP went
:27:49. > :27:56.so strongly on oil predictions that turned out to be nonsense. One other
:27:57. > :28:01.thing, Alex Salmond missed the debate in Parliament today because
:28:02. > :28:05.he was unveiling a portrait of himself. Do you think it was unfair
:28:06. > :28:11.of them to accuse them of pitting his eagle before politics? I don't
:28:12. > :28:16.think one could ever accuse Alex Salmond of not taking his own ego
:28:17. > :28:20.very seriously. He made a legitimate calculation about what was going to
:28:21. > :28:25.get him most attention today, and seems to have done quite nicely out
:28:26. > :28:29.of it. You were there. What did you think of the painting? I think it is
:28:30. > :28:35.a good likeness of Alex Salmond a year ago, maybe less so now.
:28:36. > :28:39.Whatever you think of him, he is a big historical figure, and big
:28:40. > :28:45.historical figures belong in the Scottish portrait Gallery.
:28:46. > :28:51.David's back on Monday night, same time.