14/01/2016

Download Subtitles

Transcript

:00:00. > :00:23.How best can we protect children from explicit content online?

:00:24. > :00:30.MSPs have been debating how to strengthen restrictions

:00:31. > :00:39.We hear from one woman who teaches five-year-olds to be 'porn aware'.

:00:40. > :00:41.Mohammad Sarwar looks back on a turbulent political career

:00:42. > :00:49.and ponders whether Scotland was ready for its first black MP.

:00:50. > :00:53.There are people within the Labour Party who felt that Scotland is not

:00:54. > :01:02.ready for a black MP, and... And the crowdfunding campaign to buy

:01:03. > :01:04.Jeremy Corbyn his dream bike Most children have access to smart

:01:05. > :01:20.phones and tablets these days and most, it seems, are looking

:01:21. > :01:22.at stuff they know their parents Explicit videos, pro-anorexia

:01:23. > :01:29.websites, violent video games. We may set parental controls,

:01:30. > :01:31.but there's no standard regulations and, anyway, savvy kids often run

:01:32. > :01:34.rings round their parents In a moment, I'll be talking to two

:01:35. > :01:59.guests about how we could improve Before I could watch this explicit

:02:00. > :02:01.music video online, I had to confirm that I am old enough. But guess

:02:02. > :02:09.what, people can lie about that. So, it's easy for young people to see

:02:10. > :02:10.graphic sex or violence. The video plays without even having to click

:02:11. > :02:14.on the play button. You look at things like that and it is easy to

:02:15. > :02:19.be friends with people on Facebook that you aren't very close with and

:02:20. > :02:21.they may share a stupid or inappropriate video. What kind of

:02:22. > :02:26.things are we talking about? I have skipped over review things that I

:02:27. > :02:34.skipped over, like Isis, beheadings and stuff. When you hear parents and

:02:35. > :02:36.teachers at the school talking about the Internet, do they understand the

:02:37. > :02:41.issues that you face, or does its just sound out of touch? I think

:02:42. > :02:43.whenever your parents talk about the Internet, there's always some sort

:02:44. > :02:49.of you don't know what you're talking about, feeling, about it. I

:02:50. > :02:58.think they obviously have cause for concern, and it is out of their

:02:59. > :03:02.hands, so to speak, as they prominently don't monitor what's we

:03:03. > :03:08.are doing on the Internet as much as they think they should. There is a

:03:09. > :03:09.paradigms shift between watching your kid playing in the playground

:03:10. > :03:15.knowing that he is safe from people that will approach in and tell him

:03:16. > :03:16.suites in the van for him to take, but with the Internet there is no

:03:17. > :03:23.way that they can see what is going on. They can make approaches to you

:03:24. > :03:28.without control all parents -- from your parents or you. There was a

:03:29. > :03:33.debate today on the subject was there was a recommendation that MSPs

:03:34. > :03:36.aren't necessarily the people do discuss this issue. I think this

:03:37. > :03:42.issue would audibly be more productively discussed at a youth

:03:43. > :03:45.Parliament, who would understand the issue is a great deal better than

:03:46. > :03:51.the average age of those who sits alongside me today. Young people

:03:52. > :03:55.need to become aware that things happen in the use could just will

:03:56. > :04:00.happen to themselves was that they have to protect themselves and

:04:01. > :04:03.realise that the Internet is a dangerous place will stop she says

:04:04. > :04:09.we do need to keep a proper perspective and not panic. I think

:04:10. > :04:11.we must realise that a lot of people are sensible and they do understand

:04:12. > :04:17.what they are doing and when to do silly things and won't post things

:04:18. > :04:19.that they should not do. It is just a small minority that maybe things

:04:20. > :04:26.are going wrong for. Perhaps the answer is to develop trust for

:04:27. > :04:30.children, so we can tell them what it is appropriate, and they can tell

:04:31. > :04:36.us if we come across anything that is unexpected. It is like going Uni,

:04:37. > :04:44.parents can't watch every so you pansies who believe that children

:04:45. > :04:45.can be trusted with a Facebook account, and they are old enough and

:04:46. > :04:46.responsible enough to look at the right things and not the wrong

:04:47. > :04:52.things and get themselves into trouble. To be honest it is not

:04:53. > :04:54.always easy to get it right. My son when he was eight had a new iPad and

:04:55. > :05:01.he had forgotten the password which is another pitfall of giving a child

:05:02. > :05:03.a gadget. I, with great skill, I thought restored it to factory

:05:04. > :05:11.settings, but forgot to reinstall the parental controls will stop when

:05:12. > :05:14.I remembered this save you hours later, I checked up on what he was

:05:15. > :05:16.doing and yet managed to download an app called 106 positions. That makes

:05:17. > :05:29.With me now is Stewart Maxwell, who led today's debate

:05:30. > :05:31.in Parliament, and in our Hull newsroom is Lynnette Smith,

:05:32. > :05:37.a sex education consultant who works with children as young as five.

:05:38. > :05:46.Welcome to both of you. Some hair raising stuff there in the report,

:05:47. > :05:46.watching beheading videos, eight-year-olds downloading 100

:05:47. > :05:54.different sex positions. What more do you think needs to be done to

:05:55. > :05:56.regulate content that children can access? There is no sort of simple

:05:57. > :06:03.answer to that question, there is no single solution to the problem. I

:06:04. > :06:05.think some of the steps that we are beginning to see taken, the fact

:06:06. > :06:12.that some of the major labels in the UK are now beginning to sign up to

:06:13. > :06:14.or have signed up to the classification of their music videos

:06:15. > :06:20.online, on YouTube and Vevo, I think is a start was one of the issues

:06:21. > :06:21.raised in the report was that how can you tell, how can you help to

:06:22. > :06:26.educate your children if you yourself don't know what these

:06:27. > :06:31.videos contain, so that is helpful, you know if I see a video that has

:06:32. > :06:33.ever classification rating, I know roughly what that means and I can

:06:34. > :06:39.take the appropriate action if I have a child that is perhaps ten or

:06:40. > :06:42.12 years of age. As you saw, we can get round these YouTube consent

:06:43. > :06:48.things. You over to 18 but at yes will stop you aren't always sitting

:06:49. > :06:51.over a child shoulder. Of course not, but listening to the

:06:52. > :06:58.classification process is a start. Music videos that are available in

:06:59. > :07:03.UK online, for YouTube etc, are classified by the BBFC, and Internet

:07:04. > :07:09.filters, parental filters can then be used to save I no longer want

:07:10. > :07:15.this mobile device or this phone or this PC to be able to access music

:07:16. > :07:18.videos which have a classification of 18 or 15. Once they are

:07:19. > :07:24.classified then you can implement those measures. What about

:07:25. > :07:26.education. Lynette Smith, you work with children as young as five. Is

:07:27. > :07:32.it really necessary to make them porn aware at that early age? I

:07:33. > :07:34.think as soon as students not to use the Internet we have a

:07:35. > :07:38.responsibility to a educate them, as educators and parents, to make them

:07:39. > :07:42.aware that whilst there are interesting things on the Internet

:07:43. > :07:45.there are also some things which are not very nice. They are the words we

:07:46. > :07:53.use with children of that age. We use specialised age-appropriate

:07:54. > :07:59.resources... Like drawings, for example? Yes, Little parties that

:08:00. > :08:04.give children a really good idea of being able to identify risk because

:08:05. > :08:07.it may not be then that find inappropriate things on the

:08:08. > :08:12.Internet, it may be other, older children that want to show them,

:08:13. > :08:17.younger children, those things. It is important that children from a

:08:18. > :08:22.really young age know to tell an adult, parents, carers that if they

:08:23. > :08:30.feel they are being put in a dusty situation so we can all protect

:08:31. > :08:34.them. Do anyone get frightened? How do they respond to this? No-no, they

:08:35. > :08:39.love it. There are 12 of us in the team and we worked with nursery

:08:40. > :08:40.children right through to 18-year-olds, and they all love it.

:08:41. > :08:48.The younger ones love it because it is very interactive. We have bending

:08:49. > :08:51.thumbs up, dumbs down as to whether the situation on the card is a good

:08:52. > :08:58.one or one that is not a good one. It is all very age-appropriate and

:08:59. > :09:00.they love it. We look at situations like pornography, abuse, sexual

:09:01. > :09:03.exploitation, and we think about those in a very adult way and we

:09:04. > :09:09.know how serious and how devastating it can be. Children, when they look

:09:10. > :09:15.at the card, they do not see that. They just see a situation which is

:09:16. > :09:22.not very good, so they don't interpret it in the way we do as

:09:23. > :09:28.adults. Stewart Maxwell, the British board of film classification, the

:09:29. > :09:30.BBFC, found that 60% of children aged 12 to 18 wouldn't approve of

:09:31. > :09:37.the music videos they were watching. Was it ever thus? I'm sure people

:09:38. > :09:39.didn't approve of the music I listen to when I was that age was up I

:09:40. > :09:45.think it is about a combination of responses that we have few

:09:46. > :09:46.undertake. I absolutely agree with what has been said about education

:09:47. > :09:50.but I think we also need classification we are beginning to

:09:51. > :09:57.see, and in some cases we need regulation. We can solve this

:09:58. > :10:03.problem, we cannot pin down the Internet nor should we. Are we not

:10:04. > :10:06.panicking unnecessarily? The kids in that film seemed quite sensible.

:10:07. > :10:13.Maybe we are just panicking like generations past. They were

:10:14. > :10:20.obviously 17 or 18 years of age, what I am talking about is children

:10:21. > :10:28.younger ages. It is giving intimation to children, and also

:10:29. > :10:30.parents, and children actually respecting the classification is, if

:10:31. > :10:36.they understand what an 18 is, we need to give them the opportunity to

:10:37. > :10:44.see those ratings. Let us be honest that this material is sexually

:10:45. > :10:47.inappropriate in some of these videos. Do you see the impact of the

:10:48. > :10:52.viewing of this material on people exposed that content? What is that

:10:53. > :10:59.impact? This is the reason that we started working for years ago with

:11:00. > :11:06.children because I had been delivering sexual education since

:11:07. > :11:09.4002. That summer we saw the Internet into our homes. From that

:11:10. > :11:14.September onwards, September 2002, we were seeing different attitudes

:11:15. > :11:20.towards girls, towards women towards sex, and that has increased, so four

:11:21. > :11:23.years ago, a combination of seeing that real peak in a change of

:11:24. > :11:28.attitudes, and boys especially thinking that a lot of the things

:11:29. > :11:35.that they were seeing in pornography on the Internet was how sex really

:11:36. > :11:44.was. That combined with primary aged children being referred to in...

:11:45. > :11:51.They had gone off the rails and exhibited strange sexual behaviour.

:11:52. > :11:52.This made us realise that we have to start sexual education much, much

:11:53. > :11:55.younger and the Ofsted report that said that the primaries was doing

:11:56. > :12:00.the sexual side of it as well as they could. We decided to move into

:12:01. > :12:08.primary schools as well as a senior schools, and start helping schools,

:12:09. > :12:12.teachers and importantly, parents, understand what the issues were so

:12:13. > :12:19.we could all work together to help the approach. Do you think, Stewart

:12:20. > :12:25.Maxwell, that Lynette's work is in Scottish schools, and should be

:12:26. > :12:28.happening there? We have do educate parents but we also certainly have

:12:29. > :12:33.the educate children. As I there is a combination of the things that she

:12:34. > :12:40.would be provided. We need to understand what we are facing and

:12:41. > :12:42.deal with it appropriately. We need to give the parent is the confidence

:12:43. > :12:44.that they can use that ability and knowledge and that companies to take

:12:45. > :12:47.the decision to protect their children and the domination of these

:12:48. > :12:51.things will mean that we don't have to worry about the measures of panic

:12:52. > :12:56.that we were talking about earlier. There we must leave it. Thank you

:12:57. > :12:58.Stewart Maxwell and Lynette Smith for coming in.

:12:59. > :13:00.There were people in Labour who thought Scotland was just not

:13:01. > :13:04.That's the view of Scotland's first minority ethnic MP,

:13:05. > :13:06.Mohammad Sarwar, looking back over his often controversial life.

:13:07. > :13:10.Earlier today I caught up with him at his family home in Glasgow.

:13:11. > :13:12.And there was a hint of regret that he hadn't climbed higher

:13:13. > :13:28.It's a real-life rags to riches story, from shelf stacking to

:13:29. > :13:33.millionaire businessman. That's a good seller. A journey that led this

:13:34. > :13:43.entrepreneur not do the Conservatives but to Labour. They

:13:44. > :13:47.were campaigning for poor people in this country, they wanted to have a

:13:48. > :13:54.narrow gap between the rich and the poor, and I always believed that he

:13:55. > :13:56.the party policies were more friendly to communities than only

:13:57. > :14:01.other political party in this country. But things turned nasty

:14:02. > :14:08.when he decided to seek the nomination for Glasgow government in

:14:09. > :14:10.1995. As a young reporter, I actually covered that selection. It

:14:11. > :14:16.was a pretty, pretty dirty affair, wasn't it? I mean you describe in

:14:17. > :14:21.this book a visit from what sounded like two heavies, but were actually

:14:22. > :14:24.two Labour MPs at the time. Tell me about that. Mike Watson and Ian

:14:25. > :14:32.Davidson made a deal between themselves that Mike Watson would go

:14:33. > :14:37.for Parliament and Ian Davidson would go for tomorrow's, and by

:14:38. > :14:44.joining forces against me that he would make sure that I wouldn't be

:14:45. > :14:49.selected, and they were being very abusive, and I had a lot of

:14:50. > :14:55.difficult times during this process. They tried to talk you out of

:14:56. > :15:00.standing. They tried to talk me out of it, they said I must not stand, I

:15:01. > :15:06.told them luck. I have a right to go in the democratic process. If I win,

:15:07. > :15:25.fine, if I don't win, then you will be selected and I give useful

:15:26. > :15:31.support during the elections. I can't get rid of this feeling that,

:15:32. > :15:38.for some he is a lackey that is too big for his books and that ain't

:15:39. > :15:44.Westminster, it is the gentleman's club. I think he is absolutely

:15:45. > :15:49.right. People in the Labour Party who felt Scotland is not ready for a

:15:50. > :15:54.black MP and that I should be limited to just being a Councillor

:15:55. > :15:59.and supporting the Labour Party wherever they need me, and that is

:16:00. > :16:18.why they approved of me -- treated me so prettily -- "For some he is a

:16:19. > :16:21.Paki that is too big for his bits". 20 years ago I followed Mohammad

:16:22. > :16:25.Sarwar on a trip to Palestine will Pakistan. He had gone to bring back

:16:26. > :16:31.to Glasgow sisters who had been abducted by their fathers and forced

:16:32. > :16:35.into marriage. I am from the BBC in Scotland and I wanted to speak to

:16:36. > :16:39.you about abduction of your 13-year-old daughter to marry a

:16:40. > :16:42.40-year-old man. I do not think back then as a young reporter I

:16:43. > :16:46.understood quite a controversial thing that was for you to do. There

:16:47. > :16:51.are a lot of people here in the Asian community who thought you had

:16:52. > :16:54.no business intervening in a family's fears. When I discussed

:16:55. > :17:03.this issue with my community members I was advised not to intervene in

:17:04. > :17:07.other families's business but I felt very strongly I should help these

:17:08. > :17:13.girls in difficulty and my wife encouraged me. She encouraged me to

:17:14. > :17:17.take a bold step. Your successful intervention brought the girls back

:17:18. > :17:22.and they were happy with the resolution, but not everybody here?

:17:23. > :17:29.Yes, there were a lot of people in the community upset about me

:17:30. > :17:33.involving myself in this other family's affair, and this might

:17:34. > :17:39.surprise you. Even though there was a meeting of the powerful leaders of

:17:40. > :17:43.the community and they decided unanimously to boycott my business

:17:44. > :17:47.-- there was. It was not an easy decision but again, when you are in

:17:48. > :17:51.politics you should not be in politics if you can't make these

:17:52. > :17:59.difficult decisions. Tougher still was his decision to get involved in

:18:00. > :18:03.one of Scotland's most notorious murders the brutal killing of second

:18:04. > :18:11.Macdonald by four Asian young men. All the community were shocked and

:18:12. > :18:15.they were very sympathetic -- Kriss Donald. All of Kriss Donald's

:18:16. > :18:19.family, and people thought there would be trouble in Pollokshields

:18:20. > :18:25.because there was trouble in other parts of the UK when there was the

:18:26. > :18:29.fight and the trouble. And there were riots afterwards, but luckily

:18:30. > :18:36.the communities all became United at this difficult and challenging time

:18:37. > :18:39.and they also ported me in my struggle -- they all supported me in

:18:40. > :18:43.my struggle to bring the killers back to Scotland. I have always

:18:44. > :18:51.believed in integration, because, you know, when children from the

:18:52. > :18:55.minorities go into the schools tomorrow, they make friends with

:18:56. > :19:00.each other and impractical life, this networking helps people to

:19:01. > :19:04.become successful in their life. But this is a long story which I have

:19:05. > :19:10.mentioned in my book as well. What are the reasons, why things went

:19:11. > :19:17.wrong? And I still believe that this war is in Afghanistan and Iraq did

:19:18. > :19:27.not help to bring the international community together, these wars have

:19:28. > :19:30.become recruiting Sergeant for terrorists in the eastern world. How

:19:31. > :19:39.does it feel no to see the woman you beat when you got elected in

:19:40. > :19:43.Government running the country? Yes, I confess at my selection with

:19:44. > :19:49.Margaret Curran and of course she became the sack in the Secretary of

:19:50. > :19:53.State for Scotland, Mike Watson becoming a member of the House of

:19:54. > :19:58.Lords and then the cabinet minister -- became the Secretary of State for

:19:59. > :20:03.Scotland. And Nicola, I beat her in 1997, and she becomes the First

:20:04. > :20:08.Minister, and I am the one who remained a backbencher MP for 13

:20:09. > :20:13.years in British politics. Any bitterness about that? I am content.

:20:14. > :20:19.Why do you think you remained a backbencher? The reason is simple, I

:20:20. > :20:25.was a controversial MP and then in British politics, one thing I have

:20:26. > :20:29.learned, that you do not go up the ladder by voting against your own

:20:30. > :20:32.Government. Except, of course, if you're Jeremy Corbyn. Do you think

:20:33. > :20:40.he will turn things around for Labour? I have campaigned with him

:20:41. > :20:43.on many issues. He was campaigning with me against the war in

:20:44. > :20:51.Afghanistan, he shared my views on the Iraq war, on Palestinian issues.

:20:52. > :20:59.He is a man of integrity and he won the election of the Labour Party

:21:00. > :21:05.with a massive majority. A Prime Minister in waiting? I wish him

:21:06. > :21:08.well. But would he be Prime Minister, do you think? This is a

:21:09. > :21:13.matter for the British people, not for me. But what do you think? I am

:21:14. > :21:21.out of British politics know, for the last two years, so I don't know

:21:22. > :21:23.what will happen in for yours' time. -- four years' time.

:21:24. > :21:25.Mohammad Sarwar earlier, not quite answering that last question.

:21:26. > :21:30.Here now to discuss some of today's other news are the journalist

:21:31. > :21:39.Welcome to you both. We will stick with Jeremy Corbyn for our first

:21:40. > :21:44.story. A crowdfunding campaign has raised nearly ?5,000 already for a

:21:45. > :21:49.new bicycle for the Labour leader after column in which he mentioned

:21:50. > :21:57.his dream bike, and this is it, a ?475 Raleigh Criterium. Katie, can

:21:58. > :22:05.we read anything into his choice of baked? Nothing at all. He can also

:22:06. > :22:09.buy many bikes for ?5,000, and I think this shows something about

:22:10. > :22:12.Jeremy Corbyn which is whether you like him or you don't there is

:22:13. > :22:16.something very attractive. He wanted a bike and that is what he said he

:22:17. > :22:23.wanted, so great he has got one. I think it is just a nice thing, ...

:22:24. > :22:28.And the fact he cycles. Is that attractive in a leader do think? Is

:22:29. > :22:32.there an example in Britain just know of any political person at all

:22:33. > :22:40.as genuinely earnest as Jeremy Corbyn? His authenticity exposes the

:22:41. > :22:45.superficial nature of a lot of politics. You know, a whole

:22:46. > :22:52.generations of politicians that came up with a public relations head on

:22:53. > :22:54.Seoul, yes, he is old school, he will not be the next Prime Minister,

:22:55. > :22:56.but I think people all across the political spectrum are attracted to

:22:57. > :23:05.that authenticity because I think people want to be more like him --

:23:06. > :23:10.so, yes, he is old school. Jeremy Corbyn, yes, but Boris Johnson,

:23:11. > :23:13.David Cameron, they ride bicycles, but no one rides one quite like

:23:14. > :23:19.Jeremy Corbyn, so I think it has done a good thing for bicycles. When

:23:20. > :23:23.he is riding his icicle, he is never the too far off his principles and I

:23:24. > :23:25.think that is all part of the package -- bicycle. I don't think

:23:26. > :23:32.you could say the same of some of the figures you mention who are part

:23:33. > :23:38.of that pragmatic bullet -- political class. Which is there

:23:39. > :23:43.enough. You mentioned that he is earnest. The people like that?

:23:44. > :23:51.Cyanide yes, and I think some kind of relief from the current pantheon

:23:52. > :23:52.of political figures. Really we are all sitting in a living rooms and

:23:53. > :23:59.suffering -- yes, and I think some of the relief. A lot of ours are not

:24:00. > :24:05.that engaged, to be honest. It is the same old tricks, just a

:24:06. > :24:10.different colour -- a lot of us. Ride a bicycle because he likes a

:24:11. > :24:13.bicycle but he is also on ideologue and I think unfortunately in the

:24:14. > :24:17.deep's world a lot of the people who succeed or managers and that is what

:24:18. > :24:24.politics is about, managing things nowadays. While he may be attractive

:24:25. > :24:25.in his earnestness and I like that, politician who says what he means,

:24:26. > :24:29.but when it comes to actually being Prime Minister, I don't think that

:24:30. > :24:34.quite works. So we like him but we don't really trust him to leave the

:24:35. > :24:39.country. There is a report out today looking at Labour's General Election

:24:40. > :24:43.defeat and it has suggested the biggest challenge for the party

:24:44. > :24:45.would be connecting with voters on immigration and welfare. You think

:24:46. > :24:49.he will achieve that on these two issues? I think that is the biggest

:24:50. > :24:55.challenge for a lot of people on the left. It is a delicate balance

:24:56. > :24:59.between not being seen or genuinely not condoning xenophobia, for

:25:00. > :25:05.example, but also coming to where people are and listening to what

:25:06. > :25:08.might be some valid genuine concerns people have around what some believe

:25:09. > :25:14.to be a sort of open-door policy where a lot of people not accounted

:25:15. > :25:18.for. I think in times of austerity when communities in poverty or under

:25:19. > :25:22.such chronic stress it is difficult to lecture from on high about

:25:23. > :25:27.tolerating this and that because tolerance is something that comes

:25:28. > :25:32.from being free from the daily stress of, where is the money coming

:25:33. > :25:36.from? This, that and the next thing. It is a delicate balance and I think

:25:37. > :25:41.it will be interesting to see how Corbyn plays it because he will make

:25:42. > :25:44.his own arguments. I do not see him capitulating a lot of the time to

:25:45. > :25:49.what the others do but I think it is a real debate that needs to be had.

:25:50. > :25:56.I will move on because Glasgow's folk Festival, Celtic Connections,

:25:57. > :26:00.kicks off today. More than 2000 artists will be performing in

:26:01. > :26:03.Glasgow over the next 18 days. It is funded by public and private sector

:26:04. > :26:07.support and just before Christmas the Scottish Government announced it

:26:08. > :26:14.would cut the whole culture budget by almost 10%. Does that worry you,

:26:15. > :26:22.Katie? Well, we live in times of austerity, and as many of the people

:26:23. > :26:23.affected have said, or the administrators in the affected

:26:24. > :26:26.organisations have said, you know, in times of austerity everybody must

:26:27. > :26:32.bear some of the cost... But is culture and easy hit? I would not

:26:33. > :26:37.have said it was an easy hit, but it is in one way in that people, you

:26:38. > :26:41.know, it doesn't affect their daily lives in the same way cutting

:26:42. > :26:44.welfare affect their daily lives, and I find the response quite

:26:45. > :26:51.interesting. You know, when the SNP cut the budget, everyone says quite

:26:52. > :26:54.nicely, of course, we must take our fair share of the cuts, but if it is

:26:55. > :26:59.the Tories, they are all devils incarnate, but I do not think

:27:00. > :27:04.culture is an easy hit, especially in Scotland where it means a lot to

:27:05. > :27:10.most people but, you know, there are cuts and we must all take some.

:27:11. > :27:15.Creative Scotland is taking a cut of 3.6%. You have had some words to say

:27:16. > :27:22.about Creative Scotland. I come from a community where, quite often,

:27:23. > :27:25.well-meaning and valiant community arts projects are parachuted in with

:27:26. > :27:28.massive resources, they withdraw resources from the community, go

:27:29. > :27:31.back to the Government and speak about legacy when really they have

:27:32. > :27:35.sold a lot of seeds of resentment and made people sceptical of art so

:27:36. > :27:39.that is my experience. In terms of the cuts, I do not see a festival

:27:40. > :27:42.like Celtic Connections taking a massive hit. They are well

:27:43. > :27:50.oversubscribed and every gig is packed. The people who feel the cuts

:27:51. > :27:51.will be the local organisations with two or three core staff member is

:27:52. > :27:56.who do not have the resources to find the pots when other funding is

:27:57. > :27:59.cut. When you see those cuts that is really who it is affecting, the

:28:00. > :28:03.local organisations that have deep roots in communities, the ones who

:28:04. > :28:10.cannot afford to send someone out scouting. There are a lot, you know,

:28:11. > :28:17.there are many administrators in Rate in Scotland. I looked at the

:28:18. > :28:21.website before coming in and I think there are about 36 employees and the

:28:22. > :28:25.chief executive -- Creative Scotland. We have to work out how to

:28:26. > :28:29.-- look at how these organisations work, whether we are getting good

:28:30. > :28:33.bang for the buck out of the administrators. Because I think the

:28:34. > :28:36.people who suffer are the performers and creative people and somehow the

:28:37. > :28:41.administrators and administration, you know, keeps on chugging along.

:28:42. > :28:45.If it is anything like the other sectors and public life at the

:28:46. > :28:49.minute there is probably a middle tier of managers, isn't there?

:28:50. > :28:55.Slowly becoming more empowered as cuts are falling everywhere else.

:28:56. > :28:57.OK, I am afraid that is where we will have to read it. Thank you both

:28:58. > :29:00.for coming in and thank for watching.

:29:01. > :29:18.Behind the scenes of Thainstone's renowned livestock market.

:29:19. > :29:22.Welcome to The Mart - a place of business...

:29:23. > :29:26...and of friendship. I've got... Oh, man!