:00:00. > :00:25.The gloves are off as the debate over income tax heats up.
:00:26. > :00:40.The battle lines are drawn as the First Minister comes under
:00:41. > :00:43.pressure on income tax. The SNP and the Tories stood
:00:44. > :00:44.shoulder to shoulder to impose hundreds and millions of cuts
:00:45. > :00:48.A leading economist tells us Labour's tax proposal is progressive
:00:49. > :00:52.but questions whether they could pay cash back to low earners.
:00:53. > :00:56.And are young people losing out to pensioners?
:00:57. > :01:06.The Scottish Poverty Tsar thinks they are.
:01:07. > :01:10.MSPs got a stern telling off from the Presiding Officer earlier
:01:11. > :01:15.today in one of the stormiest sessions of First Minister's
:01:16. > :01:18.The subject that was getting everyone hot under the collar?
:01:19. > :01:21.Whether a flat increase of a penny on the Scottish rate of income tax
:01:22. > :01:26.would be a fair way of avoiding cuts to education and public services.
:01:27. > :01:29.Scottish Labour and the Lib Dems say it would.
:01:30. > :01:32.The SNP and the Conservatives are against a flat rise.
:01:33. > :01:48.Can I suggest that members review the footage of First Minister's
:01:49. > :01:53.Questions and consider whether they showed themselves and this
:01:54. > :01:59.parliament in the best light? Let us just rewind. What happened to this
:02:00. > :02:04.lunchtime? There is an issue that has got members mac going. Last
:02:05. > :02:12.night Parliament voted against Labour and the Lib Dems big idea of
:02:13. > :02:18.a penny on income tax. Today, the fallout. The SNP and the Tories
:02:19. > :02:26.stood shoulder to shoulder to oppose hundreds of billions of pounds -- to
:02:27. > :02:29.import hundreds of millions. I was following the advice of Kezia
:02:30. > :02:37.Dugdale herself who last October said this, a feared Scotland is not
:02:38. > :02:42.one where everyone pays more tax, we must stop tax rises on working
:02:43. > :02:46.families. Faced with the choice of using the powers of this Parliament,
:02:47. > :02:53.or hundreds of millions of pounds worth of cuts, why did the First
:02:54. > :03:02.Minister choose austerity? Order. Tax rises on the lowest paid in the
:03:03. > :03:08.society... Order. There is far too much shouting across the chamber.
:03:09. > :03:13.Please let us hear the First Minister and Kezia Dugdale. Let me
:03:14. > :03:17.remind you what Iain Gray told the people of Scotland before the
:03:18. > :03:22.referendum. Scotland was independent then John Swinney would have to
:03:23. > :03:26.increase taxes. Thanks to labour the Tories are in charge of our budget
:03:27. > :03:32.and now we have Labour proposing an increase in taxes. They are an utter
:03:33. > :03:37.disgrace. The Conservatives afforded with the SNP are against a tax rise.
:03:38. > :03:41.The Scottish Conservatives wants to protect people's paycheques and
:03:42. > :03:45.believe workers should not have 2p more than in the rest of the UK and
:03:46. > :03:52.will also try to lower taxes when it is affordable. But the SNP alone
:03:53. > :03:58.keep us guessing. No tax rises this year but who knows after that. The
:03:59. > :04:02.Tories are going into this election also arguing for more tax on low
:04:03. > :04:06.paid people because they are going to bring back prescription charges
:04:07. > :04:11.for people on low pay. They are going to make people pay for their
:04:12. > :04:18.own education. Let us -- it does not pretend... The First Minister was
:04:19. > :04:23.not holding back with the leader of the Liberal Democrats. While the SNP
:04:24. > :04:27.is imposing caps on schools and council services she has strong
:04:28. > :04:32.armed councils into making the cuts with fines if they failed to be her.
:04:33. > :04:38.She is refusing to use the income tax powers she now has. Frozen to
:04:39. > :04:44.the spot. Incapable of protecting our once proud Scottish education
:04:45. > :04:50.system. Having misled the Scottish people that the only way to avoid
:04:51. > :04:56.tax rises was to vote no he now turns round and tells people they
:04:57. > :05:02.have 2p higher taxes anyway. Willie Rennie should be utterly ashamed of
:05:03. > :05:07.himself. He should be begging the Scottish people for forgiveness. And
:05:08. > :05:15.look at this peer. The copy I of the persuading officer also. That is
:05:16. > :05:21.just enough. And with a bit of a telling off members Mac left the
:05:22. > :05:24.most lively first ministers questions in a while.
:05:25. > :05:28.So who's right in the war of words about the fairness of adding a penny
:05:29. > :05:31.One of Scotland's leading economists, Professor David Bell,
:05:32. > :05:33.has spent the day crunching the numbers.
:05:34. > :05:36.He's come to the conclusion that Labour's proposal is progressive.
:05:37. > :05:42.The poorest 50% of households would barely be affected by a penny
:05:43. > :05:47.increase, while the richest 10% would lose around ?700 a year.
:05:48. > :05:49.However, he casts doubt on the ability of councils to pay
:05:50. > :05:51.?100 cash back to those on low incomes.
:05:52. > :05:56.A little earlier, I spoke to Professor Bell.
:05:57. > :06:06.Both the SNP and the Greens claim that adding a penny to all rates of
:06:07. > :06:11.income tax is not progressive but your figures suggest otherwise. Talk
:06:12. > :06:14.me through them. We are looking at households. There are a lot of
:06:15. > :06:19.households that do not really pay income tax at all so they are not
:06:20. > :06:26.going to be affected. Among Pool A households there is almost no effect
:06:27. > :06:32.at all. As you go up, richer and richer households, there is a bigger
:06:33. > :06:39.effect, up to an average household in the top 10%, it is going to be
:06:40. > :06:45.paying about ?700 more per year for the 1p increase in income tax. The
:06:46. > :06:49.50% of Scots on the lowest income, who much of the burden is falling on
:06:50. > :06:56.them? A relatively small amount. On average they are not going to be
:06:57. > :07:00.paying more than ?50 per year. That group are either just over the
:07:01. > :07:05.personal allowance, or they are not paying income tax at all, so they
:07:06. > :07:10.are only paying a small proportion of the income window is a 1p
:07:11. > :07:18.increase. As a proportion of household income the richest would
:07:19. > :07:26.pay more of the income than the poorest. Is that what you describe
:07:27. > :07:30.as progressive? Yes it is. The top 10% PE bigger proportion of the
:07:31. > :07:37.income when the 1p rate is introduced. You considered the
:07:38. > :07:42.Labour proposal with and without the ?100 cashback to those on lower
:07:43. > :07:46.incomes. What difference does it make? It does not affect the bottom
:07:47. > :07:51.group all that much at all because again they are not paying income tax
:07:52. > :07:55.so they do not qualify for the ?100 cashback. It is mainly in the middle
:07:56. > :08:01.of the income distribution. The top group are not affected much. It does
:08:02. > :08:11.actually put proportionately more of the burden on the top 20% of the
:08:12. > :08:17.income distribution in terms of who will pay the most. Do you think it
:08:18. > :08:19.would be possible for councils to administer and make this cashback
:08:20. > :08:24.would be possible for councils to payment of ?100 to those earning
:08:25. > :08:35.under ?20,000 per year? I am not sure how that will work. Income tax
:08:36. > :08:39.is the responsibility of HMRC, not councils. They would be a problem
:08:40. > :08:44.getting information to the councils to administer that. Even if it was
:08:45. > :08:51.possible I think they would be a lot of administrative problems. And
:08:52. > :08:56.cost? And costs. The cost of setting up the system to do that. We know
:08:57. > :09:01.how computer costs tend to balloon. I would expect it would be an
:09:02. > :09:06.expensive exercise. Because Labour has argued that the mechanism is
:09:07. > :09:11.already in place, mitigating the bedroom tax, it could be done in a
:09:12. > :09:14.similar way. That is true. The benefits system, councils have
:09:15. > :09:21.experience of council tax benefit and administering that. It is not a
:09:22. > :09:26.tax in the sense of something owned by HMRC, it is owned by a different
:09:27. > :09:33.ministry. So it is not clear to me that it would be straightforward to
:09:34. > :09:38.make that transition. Overall, as a way of raising an extra ?475 million
:09:39. > :09:43.to reinvest in education and public services what is your view of this
:09:44. > :09:47.is a proposal? It is a plausible proposal. What we have done with our
:09:48. > :09:53.model is to look at the arithmetic of who would be affected by the
:09:54. > :09:58.changes in the tax. What we have not done is work out how people would
:09:59. > :10:05.react. We do not know of people in the top band might choose to leave
:10:06. > :10:10.Scotland, choose to incorporate themselves in court profits rather
:10:11. > :10:14.than income. Those are unknowns. You have got to think about, while it is
:10:15. > :10:20.good for revenue, there are also risks involved.
:10:21. > :10:23.Joining me now in the studio to discuss this from the SNP
:10:24. > :10:25.is Kenneth Gibson and from Scottish Labour,
:10:26. > :10:37.The professor thinks the Labour proposal is progressive. Why is he
:10:38. > :10:42.wrong? We heard evidence from a range of organisations from the
:10:43. > :10:47.Scottish jade union Congress to the Federation of Small Businesses and
:10:48. > :10:54.voluntary organisations and none of them thought that freezing tax was a
:10:55. > :11:00.good idea because we want stability as we go towards 2017 and the new
:11:01. > :11:04.powers. We produced a report on Friday of last week and the Labour
:11:05. > :11:10.Party also supported the position that there should be no tax rise.
:11:11. > :11:14.They have done a U-turn on their own position within one week. The
:11:15. > :11:19.Scottish trade union Congress did not support it because workers have
:11:20. > :11:22.below inflation pay rises and they needed a break and this was not the
:11:23. > :11:27.time to raise taxes. The finance ready to evidence and all members
:11:28. > :11:32.agreed unanimously that taxes should remain at the same as the UK level
:11:33. > :11:36.and then labour can I put this gimmick, clearly thought out on the
:11:37. > :11:44.back of a cigarette packet. It is already unravelling. Are you saying
:11:45. > :11:50.this is written on the back of a cigarette packet? Certainly not. We
:11:51. > :11:55.are putting forward a clear choice. You can forward the austerity
:11:56. > :11:59.measures that the SNP has put forward, ?500 million of council
:12:00. > :12:05.cuts, thousands of council workers facing the prospect of an appointed,
:12:06. > :12:10.or you can look at the Labour Party approach which will protect public
:12:11. > :12:14.services, invest in schools, give our young people hope. That is what
:12:15. > :12:18.we should be using the powers of this Parliament for. Choosing the
:12:19. > :12:22.referendum campaign Scottish Labour said that a vote for independence
:12:23. > :12:27.would lead to higher taxes. Be only a year has gone by and you want to
:12:28. > :12:30.put taxes up. Will the voters by this? It is about what you want to
:12:31. > :12:38.use the powers of the Parliament for. Kenneth Gibson in last year's
:12:39. > :12:41.Scottish Parliament urged his own Government to use the levers of the
:12:42. > :12:48.parliament to tackle inequality yet this week we saw Kenneth and the SNP
:12:49. > :12:52.standing shoulder to shoulder with the Tories to pass on George
:12:53. > :12:56.Osborne's austerity package instead of supporting communities and
:12:57. > :12:59.councils. That must have been uncomfortable to have been standing
:13:00. > :13:03.in the same corner as the Scottish Conservatives. We are not standing
:13:04. > :13:13.in the same corner as the Conservatives. At least this year we
:13:14. > :13:19.have a policy, last year they did not. This is a choice. You are
:13:20. > :13:24.choosing not to raise an extra 475 million. One of the things that the
:13:25. > :13:33.Labour Party ignored in the debate is that our budget has been cut by
:13:34. > :13:39.three 71 million. Last week again in the Finance Committee report,
:13:40. > :13:43.paragraph 65, the Labour Party signed up, they opposed the SNP view
:13:44. > :13:52.that this should be indexed per capita deduction methods. What that
:13:53. > :13:56.would mean is 3000 ?500 million will be cut from the Scottish budget in
:13:57. > :14:00.the next tenuous. That is austerity. Labour and the Tories will sit for
:14:01. > :14:07.that one week ago and that will do more damage to the Scottish economy.
:14:08. > :14:12.Talking about Scottish rate of income tax, the professor was clear,
:14:13. > :14:18.he thinks the ?100 cashback is a bit of a nonstarter. You have not got
:14:19. > :14:22.that through. I do not agree. It is not a nonstarter if you are on the
:14:23. > :14:27.minimum wage and you would in effect from an additional ?81 per year. How
:14:28. > :14:35.I councils going to administer this? Councils already administer council
:14:36. > :14:41.tax payments. This is income tax. Discretionary housing payments. This
:14:42. > :14:46.is about identifying names and addresses, identifying the payments,
:14:47. > :14:49.a verification process and getting it to low paid workers. It is not
:14:50. > :14:56.rocket science. It is about putting it to low paid workers. It is not
:14:57. > :15:01.a robust computer system in place. It is about delivering these rebates
:15:02. > :15:04.to low paid workers but it is also about protecting public services
:15:05. > :15:10.from the savage cuts that the SNP and the Tories are proposing and
:15:11. > :15:14.investing in schools and supporting teachers and young people.
:15:15. > :15:26.James is talking about a new system with HMRC input. The rebate, it
:15:27. > :15:32.would be at the end of the year. Anyone with the rebate... Litany of
:15:33. > :15:38.excuses from the SNP It is not an excuse. Excuse me, please don't
:15:39. > :15:41.interrupt me. In two hours yesterday, and tonight you were
:15:42. > :15:46.unable to say how the system, which you came up with on Monday, because
:15:47. > :15:50.you wanted to say something different, you have no idea how it
:15:51. > :15:54.will work. That is the reality. Anyone looking at the systems know
:15:55. > :16:00.that they take months or years to bed. In it is a gimmick.
:16:01. > :16:05.James Kelly, Labour used the same argument against the SNP's penny for
:16:06. > :16:09.Scotland in 1999, now that the SNP is using against Labour. Is there a
:16:10. > :16:17.danger with both sides that the voters get exasperated? The
:16:18. > :16:21.difference in 2003... 19 the 9. The Scottish budget was growing. At this
:16:22. > :16:26.point in time, the Scottish budget is contracting. I hope by stage
:16:27. > :16:30.three that Kenny Gibson and colleagues discorp a backbone. That
:16:31. > :16:34.is what is needed to protect the jobs of council workers and to
:16:35. > :16:37.protect public services. We are out of time. Thank you very
:16:38. > :16:40.much for coming in. Thank you.
:16:41. > :16:45.While we're on the subject of who should be paying more
:16:46. > :16:47.and who should be paying less in times of austerity,
:16:48. > :16:49.have pensioners been over-protected from spending cuts?
:16:50. > :16:51.The Scottish Government's Poverty Tsar thinks they have,
:16:52. > :16:54.at the expense of young people. And she also says its time
:16:55. > :16:57.for a rethink on some of the government's popular -
:16:58. > :16:59.but expensive - universal benefits like prescription charges.
:17:00. > :17:00.Just before we came on air I spoke to Naomi Eisenstadt
:17:01. > :17:11.from our Edinburgh studio. I began by asking her if the
:17:12. > :17:14.Scottish government should do less for pensioners and more for the
:17:15. > :17:19.young. I think that they do. But I do think
:17:20. > :17:24.that the Scottish government is serious about tackling poverty.
:17:25. > :17:29.You mentioned inheritance tax offers a clearer route to a fairer and more
:17:30. > :17:36.just society. That will not go down well with older people? The tax
:17:37. > :17:39.issue is toxic for most politicians. But talking about intergenerational
:17:40. > :17:42.social mobility, there is no question that children who were born
:17:43. > :17:46.to families where they own properties grow up with a kind of
:17:47. > :17:51.security that children who are born to renters don't have.
:17:52. > :17:55.Now part of that is reducing poverty so more people can own their own
:17:56. > :17:59.homes but part is inheritance tax. But I'm not hopeful about that one.
:18:00. > :18:02.I think it is a difficult one for the politicians. What sort of
:18:03. > :18:08.response have you had from the government about it? Well, really,
:18:09. > :18:11.it wasn't part of my proposals as I understand it is so difficult for
:18:12. > :18:16.governments. It is deeply unpopular with the voters.
:18:17. > :18:20.You believe in progressive taxation, earlier we heard from economist
:18:21. > :18:25.Professor David Bell, saying a penny on income tax in Scotland could be a
:18:26. > :18:33.progressive way of raising ?475 million. Is it worth consideration?
:18:34. > :18:38.Of course I believe in progressive taxation, whether that change would
:18:39. > :18:45.have the impact it would be needed, I don't think enough work is being
:18:46. > :18:50.done. The fundamental principle is to pay for proper public services
:18:51. > :18:55.you need income tax, property tax, and you need to have a thriving
:18:56. > :19:00.economy. How you balance investment in getting a thriving economy so
:19:01. > :19:03.people are in work and can pay taxes and what the rate of the taxes
:19:04. > :19:07.should be is a very, very complicated issue.
:19:08. > :19:12.You have come up with lots of ideas about the long-term but in the
:19:13. > :19:14.short-term, nearly half a billion pounds extra could be targeted at
:19:15. > :19:19.education and local services for younger people? I think that there
:19:20. > :19:25.is up, one of the recommendations in my report is that we need to do a
:19:26. > :19:29.lot more work in understanding what would work for young people. I think
:19:30. > :19:35.yes a gap in knowledge on what policies would be best for young
:19:36. > :19:41.people, 14 to 24. The reason I think this is important for Scotland in
:19:42. > :19:45.the poverty debate is that Scotland has very generous free tuition fees,
:19:46. > :19:49.great for the young people who have that ability to go on to university.
:19:50. > :19:55.I think we should be thinking about what investment we should make in
:19:56. > :20:00.less academic youngsters who tend to be from poorer back grounds. We
:20:01. > :20:05.don't know enough about them in the way we know enough about the needs
:20:06. > :20:10.of very young children. We have won the argument on under five but we
:20:11. > :20:14.have don lots of research and testing on what work, we have not
:20:15. > :20:18.here from young people from poorer back grounds. What could the
:20:19. > :20:24.government look at doing differently for those younger people from poorer
:20:25. > :20:29.back grounds? There must be better careers advice in school. Better
:20:30. > :20:32.lingages between the schools and the local economy and local industrip.
:20:33. > :20:37.If you talk to employers they say that they can't find people with the
:20:38. > :20:43.right skills, well where is the link between the skills needed in the
:20:44. > :20:47.economy and what is happening? Happening early in school from 14 to
:20:48. > :20:54.15-year-old, it should not be left to the school leaving age.
:20:55. > :21:00.Is it fair that so much is ploughed into free tuition fees? Perhaps it
:21:01. > :21:06.is time to rethink that and divert the money to people from poorer back
:21:07. > :21:09.grounds? I have thought that a lot if I felt certain that the money was
:21:10. > :21:15.diverted in that way. But usually when the government takes something
:21:16. > :21:19.away, the savings goes into a general pot and everybody has a go.
:21:20. > :21:23.So I don't think that change is due until we understand what it takes
:21:24. > :21:30.for the other 50% of young people. What it would take for the nine
:21:31. > :21:34.universities, I don't know the cost for a new system, until you
:21:35. > :21:37.understand that, there is no point in saying take the money from here
:21:38. > :21:39.and put it there. OK. Naomi Eisenstadt. Thank you very
:21:40. > :21:40.much. Thank you very much.
:21:41. > :21:46.Joining me now to discuss some of the day's news are Cat Boyd,
:21:47. > :21:48.a candidate for RISE, Scotland's left wing alliance.
:21:49. > :21:52.And the Daily Record's political editor, David Clegg.
:21:53. > :21:57.Welcome to you both. Let's kick off with the comments
:21:58. > :22:02.from Professor Bell in the programme, that he thinks that
:22:03. > :22:07.Labour's proposed penny on income tax is progressive. David do you
:22:08. > :22:12.think that is a problem for the SNP? I think that the problem is that
:22:13. > :22:17.most experts think it progressive and people looking at the detail
:22:18. > :22:23.feel it is progressive. But it does not mean it will translate into an
:22:24. > :22:27.electoral problem for the SNP. They are doing well in the polls.
:22:28. > :22:34.Scottish Labour have problems earning a hearing from the Scottish
:22:35. > :22:39.people. But it does make the SNPs desire to present themselves as
:22:40. > :22:43.anti-austerity difficult when they are ridiculing the idea despite the
:22:44. > :22:47.weight of academics suggesting it could be a way to help people who
:22:48. > :22:51.need the help. Difficult when it was an idea that
:22:52. > :22:57.they proposed once? You but it was a long time ago. I think that the real
:22:58. > :23:02.issue is going to be that they have spent a long time, a lot of time in
:23:03. > :23:06.the last couple of years as an alternative to austerity, pitching
:23:07. > :23:11.themselves that way. But when it comes down to doing something that
:23:12. > :23:17.could help, they don't seem to want to do that in case it scares off the
:23:18. > :23:26.middle-class voter base. We saw a bad tempered FMQs but do
:23:27. > :23:31.you think that the strategy of painting the SNP into the same
:23:32. > :23:38.corner as the Conservatives could be successful? No, it did not look
:23:39. > :23:43.great today. But in a way, the SNP and Labour are right on this to take
:23:44. > :23:46.a stand against Tory austerity and have a discussion about making sure
:23:47. > :23:51.that the poorest do not shoulder the burden. That is why many of us
:23:52. > :23:56.campaigned for independence at the end of the day. Since 1979 we have
:23:57. > :24:01.seen a global consensus that there will be tax cuts for the rich and
:24:02. > :24:05.falling wages for the workers. It is a good thing to have a discussion
:24:06. > :24:10.about progressive taxation. Do you think there will be sympathy
:24:11. > :24:14.among the public for the local authorities stuck with a Council Tax
:24:15. > :24:18.raise? There is nothing that they can do to mitigate the spending
:24:19. > :24:24.cuts. Do you think that they may be willing to pay more in tax if it is
:24:25. > :24:28.clear what the money is spent on? The political orthodoxy is not to go
:24:29. > :24:33.into an election to raise taxes. I think we are at an unusual moment,
:24:34. > :24:38.where there has been many sustained years of cuts to public services,
:24:39. > :24:43.that there is a developing idea amongst the public that this can't
:24:44. > :24:47.go on like this, the councils cannot take it anymore, the local services
:24:48. > :24:52.cannot take it, we need money into the system and taxation is how to do
:24:53. > :24:57.it. Coming to that conclusion, that is one thing, you then take the next
:24:58. > :25:01.step of saying: I'm willing to pay extra tax myself, that is the
:25:02. > :25:08.question. However, I do I think that the point is that it is a policy
:25:09. > :25:11.that is not being designed by a party that expects to stay in
:25:12. > :25:17.government, they are looking at it not thinking it will be labour. So
:25:18. > :25:23.no-one is expecting it to be introduced by SNP.
:25:24. > :25:27.On raising taxes, RISE are a party saying that we will raise tax on the
:25:28. > :25:33.top 1% of Scotland. The rich need to pay more.
:25:34. > :25:37.To 06%? Yes, a 60 pence tax rate is fair to protect public services.
:25:38. > :25:44.You think that people will vote for that? It is easy to vote for other
:25:45. > :25:48.people to pay tax, is the argument? This is about fairness, justice.
:25:49. > :25:57.Workers' wages are falling. That is ongoing. We shouldn't have to make
:25:58. > :26:02.poor workers pay more tax. There are four billionaires in Scotland that
:26:03. > :26:12.own more than the 20% bottom Scots. This is what RISE is promising to
:26:13. > :26:20.do, to redress the balance. It was said that the Incampaign
:26:21. > :26:28.would win by a substantial majority, that the TV debates were beyond his
:26:29. > :26:34.pay wage. Nigel Farage said he may be in for a
:26:35. > :26:41.shock? There is a poll from YouGov in the morning. Showing that the
:26:42. > :26:45.leave is well ahead. I think that parallels between the Scottish
:26:46. > :26:50.referendum and the EU referendum are drawn out. But we should look at the
:26:51. > :26:57.fact that the polls narrowed. The change proposition made up ground
:26:58. > :27:04.over the period of the referendum. The momentum at the minute feels
:27:05. > :27:08.with the Leave campaign. There are some disadvantages, there is not a
:27:09. > :27:13.political figure backing it, they will face the project fair style
:27:14. > :27:18.political figure backing it, they big business to come out against it
:27:19. > :27:24.and heavy artillery unleashed on it before voting day. But I expect the
:27:25. > :27:29.polls to be close. And is there complacency with the
:27:30. > :27:37.SNPs saying a new poll showing strong support for the EU, 44% is
:27:38. > :27:40.that strong? I think that the Incampaign is complacent. There is
:27:41. > :27:45.an assumption that left-wing people in Scotland and Wales will vote to
:27:46. > :27:50.stay with the EU as we all hate Nigel Farage. There is the
:27:51. > :27:54.assumption that people vote to stay with Europe on that basis but the
:27:55. > :28:00.issue is that every time I hear about David Cameron and Europe, he
:28:01. > :28:03.is off negotiating terms that are about cuts, privatisation, curbs on
:28:04. > :28:08.people being able to come here to work and live. That is not the type
:28:09. > :28:14.of Europe I want to live in. I might vote to stay but not with any
:28:15. > :28:17.particular joy. Lord Rose's comments came as MPs
:28:18. > :28:21.were debating UK sovereignty in the Commons. It is understood that
:28:22. > :28:27.Number Ten is looking at introducing a sovereignty bill. How will that
:28:28. > :28:31.play in Scotland? I don't know if people will pay much attention to
:28:32. > :28:32.it. I think it is a thing that is striking, the EU referendum debate
:28:33. > :28:33.is not so prominent. striking, the EU referendum debate
:28:34. > :28:38.is not so prominent. That's it for tonight
:28:39. > :28:43.and for this week. Thanks for watching.
:28:44. > :28:51.We leave you with Pete Wish art, who revealed their ambition to represent
:28:52. > :28:56.We leave you with Pete Wish art, who themselves at this year's UK
:28:57. > :29:04.Eurovision. # I can't stand it
:29:05. > :29:10.# Romeo and Juliet and Juliet # Should have banned it
:29:11. > :29:18.# All of the things I said # I was only pretending
:29:19. > :29:24.# It's a game # Love, it's just a foolish
:29:25. > :30:18.# Love is a foolish # Slav a foolish game.
:30:19. > :30:18.Tonight, a special programme on Trident -
:30:19. > :30:23.our nuclear weapon of choice.