15/02/2016

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:00:36. > :00:41.Most of the health budget is spent on fixing the physical problems

:00:42. > :00:45.But there's growing demand for mental health care.

:00:46. > :00:54.Is the NHS delivering the complex treatment that's required?

:00:55. > :00:59.It's a big place in mental health if you can accept who you are,

:01:00. > :01:01.accept that new person, but that takes time.

:01:02. > :01:06.And the charity Shelter warns of a chronic lack of affordable

:01:07. > :01:19.housing - with many younger Scots shut out of home ownership.

:01:20. > :01:22.Mental illness is one of the major health challenges facing

:01:23. > :01:25.One in every three GP visits relates to mental health -

:01:26. > :01:31.the most common conditions being depression and anxiety.

:01:32. > :01:33.In a moment, we'll discuss whether the Health Service offers

:01:34. > :01:40.But first, North Lanarkshire Council runs the biggest peer support

:01:41. > :01:42.service in Scotland for adults with a range

:01:43. > :01:45.It started three years ago, but it's been a victim

:01:46. > :01:48.of its own success, and currently has a three month waiting list.

:01:49. > :01:59.Sally McNair has been hearing from two of its workers.

:02:00. > :02:05.Mark has lived with mental illness for more than 15 years. A bout of ME

:02:06. > :02:11.left his depressed, the father of three lost his job and then his

:02:12. > :02:14.house. He says he has his GP to than for pursuing his case and setting

:02:15. > :02:18.him on the road to recovery, by encouraging him to try alternative

:02:19. > :02:24.therapies. Young mum Deborah is a former

:02:25. > :02:28.military clerk, whose mental health deteriorated after the birth of her

:02:29. > :02:33.second daughter. She was told she was clinically depressed. Now they

:02:34. > :02:36.are colleagues working in a peer support group helping others You

:02:37. > :02:40.would get comments like, is that you in your bed again, or you know, what

:02:41. > :02:45.you going to do, are you coming out at the weekend? They couldn't get

:02:46. > :02:49.where I was, you know, and the stigma side of things with people

:02:50. > :02:55.looking at you, because you are not at your work, you are on the sick,

:02:56. > :03:00.it is not your choice to be there. I a loud person, and I found myself

:03:01. > :03:04.being really quiet, I would shut myself out, isolate myself from a

:03:05. > :03:09.lot of people. I wouldn't answer the phone to anybody, I wouldn't want to

:03:10. > :03:13.talk to anybody. To being a fit person and getting up for work in

:03:14. > :03:17.the morning to be being in your bed dealing with different symptoms was

:03:18. > :03:22.a shock to me and my family. I would probably say I was lucky. I had a

:03:23. > :03:27.good GP, and I think that makes all the difference because being able to

:03:28. > :03:32.sit and talk to somebody, makes a huge difference and it takes a

:03:33. > :03:35.weight after your shoulders. All mental health situations are unique

:03:36. > :03:40.to the person but the peer support we have got is, you meet them once a

:03:41. > :03:46.week, for an hour, and we have a chance to sit there, and we learn

:03:47. > :03:51.from each other. I will go over things like coping strategies, we

:03:52. > :03:55.look at thing, ways of identifying things that are wrong, so it could

:03:56. > :04:00.be like anxieties and identifying that problem and working through

:04:01. > :04:04.that. Acceptance is a big, a big place in mental health, if you can

:04:05. > :04:09.accept where you are, accept that new person, but that takes time, it

:04:10. > :04:11.is not after overnight thing. You might not know it yourself but you

:04:12. > :04:16.are getting something from working with that person so they are ening

:04:17. > :04:22.you, but they don't know they are doing it. It works both ways You

:04:23. > :04:26.think you are on your own I know I am not. I hope by the end of that

:04:27. > :04:31.six months they are able to be able to stand up on their feet and say

:04:32. > :04:34.that they are taking control of their mental health, rather than

:04:35. > :04:36.their mental health taking control of them.

:04:37. > :04:40.To discuss how the NHS can improve treatment for people with mental

:04:41. > :04:43.health problems, here in the studio I am joined by Dr Tom Smith.

:04:44. > :04:46.In our Aberdeen studio is the SNP MSP Dennis Robertson,

:04:47. > :04:48.and in Edinburgh is Alex Cole-Hamilton, a Liberal Democrat

:04:49. > :05:00.Dr Tom Smith, what has been your experience as a GP? When a patient

:05:01. > :05:04.comes to you, with a mental health problem, how easy is it to get the

:05:05. > :05:08.treatment that that person needs? They very rarely come to you with a

:05:09. > :05:11.mental health problem, most of the time you diagnose it because they

:05:12. > :05:15.have come with physical symptoms that don't, they don't realise or

:05:16. > :05:19.they don't consider a mental health problem. What will they say to you?

:05:20. > :05:24.Perhaps they have not been sleeping well. They have been wake up at four

:05:25. > :05:33.o'clock in the morning, they have been getting vague digestive upset,

:05:34. > :05:40.fast pulse from time to time, or a high state of anxiety, they may be

:05:41. > :05:44.worried about something like their marital status, their work, things

:05:45. > :05:50.that cause a lot of little physical things, that add up to either a

:05:51. > :05:54.state of depression or anxiety. How easy is it to put your finger o than

:05:55. > :05:58.problem when you just a few minutes? You can usually get an idea of it in

:05:59. > :06:05.ten minutes but the thing you do is ask the patient to come back for a

:06:06. > :06:10.longer time, or maybe extend the surgery perioder, to find out. What

:06:11. > :06:15.you have to do is decide whether this type of mental health problem

:06:16. > :06:19.they have is for you to treat or whether for you to send on to

:06:20. > :06:25.someone else. You see a lot of these patients. About 30% in a practise

:06:26. > :06:28.are like this, there is a lot of underlying depression and anxiety in

:06:29. > :06:31.our society that people don't recognise and people don't recognise

:06:32. > :06:38.themselves, and we have to sort it out. Is 30%. Dennis Robertson, a the

:06:39. > :06:43.Government has said it wants mental health to be treated on a par with

:06:44. > :06:49.physical health, bear in mind what we have heard there, does the amount

:06:50. > :06:54.the NHS spending back that up? I think to some extent, and you would

:06:55. > :07:01.be aware the First Minister made announcement at the beginning of the

:07:02. > :07:07.year, putting an extra 51.4 billion into the services makes it 150

:07:08. > :07:12.million, for mental Health Service, will that be enough? I am not sure,

:07:13. > :07:17.but it is not just the NHS, because as we heard earlier, there are peer

:07:18. > :07:23.group support group, the third sector, the work that has been done,

:07:24. > :07:28.Sam is a brilliant manifesto, for the launch of the 2016 elections and

:07:29. > :07:32.they have got, they have mental health well up there at the

:07:33. > :07:36.forefront. 150 million doesn't sound a huge amount, does it. Bearing in

:07:37. > :07:47.mind that the sheer amount of demand that GPs are experiencing. I will

:07:48. > :07:51.put it into perspective. It was the mental health budget in 1415 was 904

:07:52. > :07:55.million, that was the overall spend, that the actual when you relate to

:07:56. > :08:01.what was being spent towards mental health. This was additional money,

:08:02. > :08:07.so 150 additional money is significant. There is money going up

:08:08. > :08:12.front. There is front loaded money, in terms of money for the A

:08:13. > :08:15.services for instance, to help identify people coming in with

:08:16. > :08:20.mental health problems, but I think we have to work in partnership, I

:08:21. > :08:26.think, with the not just the NHS, but the third sector as well. OK.

:08:27. > :08:30.Alex, I want to ask, do you think spending here is keeping pace with

:08:31. > :08:38.spending south of the border? Is it enough of a priority, is it being

:08:39. > :08:42.treat as a priority. Everybody accepts that mental health is key to

:08:43. > :08:48.the health not just of our population but of our economy as

:08:49. > :08:52.well. 643 thousand work days are lost every day to depression, so

:08:53. > :08:56.right lit has to be at the heart of any Government's manifesto, but I

:08:57. > :08:59.think we do, the people of Scotland a disservice by making this too

:09:00. > :09:03.party political. The Liberal Democrats have an ambitious plan in

:09:04. > :09:07.terms of putting this into the manifesto. We want other parties to

:09:08. > :09:12.match that commitment and join with us, there is so much evidence to

:09:13. > :09:15.show this is very much at the heart of the preventative spending agenda.

:09:16. > :09:19.On that point, when people come to you, and you then want to refer them

:09:20. > :09:24.on, to get the sort of treatment they need whether it is counselling

:09:25. > :09:30.or some other type of treatment. How easy is it to send them down that

:09:31. > :09:34.pathway? It is easy for. So. Depression and anxiety, perhaps you

:09:35. > :09:37.can get an appointment with the local mental health team within a

:09:38. > :09:42.fortnight. They will be seeing a mixture of a psychiatrist, a

:09:43. > :09:47.psychologist and a CPN. Where are the delays In such things as

:09:48. > :09:51.cognitive behaviour therapy, which 18 months is the delay time for you

:09:52. > :09:55.getting cognitive behaviour therapy. That is a very important therapy you

:09:56. > :10:02.add on to maybe drug therapy as well. It is cost effective too. Yes,

:10:03. > :10:07.the other big delay really must talk about, is in children, children,

:10:08. > :10:11.small children, are affected by mental health problems too. Children

:10:12. > :10:15.with anxiety, depression, he harming, we are having to wait three

:10:16. > :10:18.to four month perfects we can get an appointment for children to be

:10:19. > :10:22.treated especially. People like school nurses are having to do the

:10:23. > :10:28.job for them. That is not right. Well, let me ask you, Dennis about

:10:29. > :10:33.that, because there are these delays a, and, these delays, they matter

:10:34. > :10:39.and the outcomes are not always good, are they? No. No. I think you

:10:40. > :10:44.know, when we are looking at young children and again recognition that

:10:45. > :10:49.something had to be done, and again, I think the commitment from the

:10:50. > :10:52.Government and I take the point, the commitment from the Government is to

:10:53. > :10:58.try and ensure that the appropriate services are there, so there has

:10:59. > :11:03.been another investment for the camp service, about 54.1 million is

:11:04. > :11:12.probably, the majority of that money is going into the service we have

:11:13. > :11:18.doubled the number of psychologists within Cahms as well. Health boards

:11:19. > :11:21.are not meeting the tar gets. The minority meet their targets on

:11:22. > :11:25.counselling and getting young patients seen earlier, is that more

:11:26. > :11:29.of a concern? Of course it is a concern, but we are, we are seeing

:11:30. > :11:35.more and more young people, and I think this is part of the other

:11:36. > :11:39.aspect of the story, is that we are identifying I think at an earlier

:11:40. > :11:42.stage, and sometimes through school nursing, you mentioned that. I think

:11:43. > :11:47.sometimes younger people are being identified and referred on And that

:11:48. > :11:52.is a good thing. We are seeing young people with, I think we are seeing

:11:53. > :11:58.young people with fairly complex needs times and sooner they are melt

:11:59. > :12:03.and dealt with, it is to the, it is to the health of that young person

:12:04. > :12:11.we need to focus on. Let me bring in Alex, we are short of time. Alex,

:12:12. > :12:15.just on that point, these, these delays, in treatment, how much money

:12:16. > :12:20.would have to be spent to reduce them? We know that meeting targets

:12:21. > :12:25.is something the NHS struggles to do across the board however much money

:12:26. > :12:29.you throw at them. How easy is to to is obvious? A considerable amount of

:12:30. > :12:33.money. The Scottish Government are to be commended where ever there is

:12:34. > :12:37.an increase in spending in mental health. We need something seismic,

:12:38. > :12:42.what has happened over the last few months and years has been

:12:43. > :12:44.incremental in terms of increases in mental health spending ful while

:12:45. > :12:49.anything like that is welcome, it needs to see a sea change in

:12:50. > :12:54.provision so if you look at in real terms, while the spending has gone

:12:55. > :13:00.up in mental health in, as a proportion of the budget as a whole,

:13:01. > :13:04.it has slid back slightly We are under 12%, we were at 13% in 2010.

:13:05. > :13:09.This is not the kind of political dynamism we need in this agenda, we

:13:10. > :13:14.need a wholesale reform of many of the services we provide in terms of

:13:15. > :13:19.the care we give patient, but we need a radical investment of cash,

:13:20. > :13:25.as well. There we must leave it. Thank you very much indeed.

:13:26. > :13:27.The charity Shelter has called for urgent action to tackle

:13:28. > :13:33.what they call a crisis in Scottish housing.

:13:34. > :13:36.Shelter warns that there's the risk of a generational gulf

:13:37. > :13:38.between the housing haves and have-nots

:13:39. > :13:41.unless there's a major increase in the supply of affordable housing.

:13:42. > :13:44.And they've unveiled a survey which reveals growing unease

:13:45. > :13:52.In a moment, we'll hear what the SNP and Labour are promising to fill

:13:53. > :13:55.the housing gap - but first here's our reporter,

:13:56. > :14:07.21 years old, about to graduate of this summer. Ross is ready to leave

:14:08. > :14:11.home. The trouble is, he cannot afford to rent a flat. I want to

:14:12. > :14:16.move out to get more independence, to see the world and find out who I

:14:17. > :14:23.am, and to further job prospects as well. But right now, I don't think

:14:24. > :14:26.it is possible because of rent. Paul rents privately in Glasgow. But he

:14:27. > :14:33.fears he will not be able to take the next step any time soon. The

:14:34. > :14:37.more that prices increase, it seems unrealistic to own my own home. By

:14:38. > :14:40.the time we have the deposit we need, the house prices will have

:14:41. > :14:50.gone up and that means we will need even more money. It is an ongoing

:14:51. > :14:55.cycle. Paul's experience is in sharp contrast to his parents', who bought

:14:56. > :15:02.their first home at 21 for ?70,000. His employers say that the risk is a

:15:03. > :15:07.generational gulf between haves and have-nots. Just one strand, they

:15:08. > :15:11.argue, feeding into a wider housing crisis. The numbers speak for

:15:12. > :15:19.themselves. 150,000 people on the waiting list, 76,000 people across

:15:20. > :15:25.from word -- across Scotland homeless last year, and tonight 5000

:15:26. > :15:29.children in temporary accommodation without somewhere to call home. That

:15:30. > :15:33.is a crisis by any stretch of the imagination. In Edinburgh, the

:15:34. > :15:37.pressure on housing is pronounced. The development behind me is one

:15:38. > :15:42.example of the efforts being made to tackle the problem in partnership

:15:43. > :15:47.with local housing associations. The council are aiming to build 16,000

:15:48. > :15:55.affordable homes in a city where every available property in that

:15:56. > :15:59.bracket receives 150 applications. Fresh construction is a key plank of

:16:00. > :16:04.what shelter are calling their manifesto for homes, set to be

:16:05. > :16:08.published tomorrow. They want the next government to commit to

:16:09. > :16:12.building 12,000 affordable rented properties every year, but tackling

:16:13. > :16:16.a lack of supply is not an entirely straightforward proposition. What we

:16:17. > :16:19.saw with the recession was that a lot of builders went out of business

:16:20. > :16:25.so there are fewer competitors able to deliver it. We also see a skill

:16:26. > :16:30.shortage in the construction industry, so there is a lack of

:16:31. > :16:34.capacity. Also, there are other things that impact, the planning

:16:35. > :16:38.system can slow down development so physically the ability to deliver on

:16:39. > :16:43.the ground gets shorter. With an election around the corner, there is

:16:44. > :16:44.added impetus to the discussion about Scotland's relationship with

:16:45. > :16:48.bricks and mortar. Just before we came on air,

:16:49. > :16:51.I spoke to the SNP MSP Kevin Stewart who was in our Aberdeen studio,

:16:52. > :16:54.and the Scottish Labour candidate Daniel Johnson,

:16:55. > :17:02.who was in Edinburgh. Kevin Stewart, this is the latest

:17:03. > :17:07.survey from Shelter and it makes pretty grim reading. It found the

:17:08. > :17:12.vast majority of Scots save the children of today will find it to

:17:13. > :17:16.buy or rent a home than their parents' generation. You have been

:17:17. > :17:22.in power for all these years now, and how have you allowed that to

:17:23. > :17:27.happen? I think we have to ensure that we build enough homes for the

:17:28. > :17:32.future. And that is why the SNP government has said it will build

:17:33. > :17:37.50,000 affordable homes in the next Parliament. We managed to pass our

:17:38. > :17:43.target of 30,000 affordable homes in this Parliament, including over 5000

:17:44. > :17:47.new council houses, and beyond that we have seen a radical change in

:17:48. > :17:54.housing policy including the abolition of right to buy, which I

:17:55. > :17:59.think has been extremely beneficial. That alongside help to buy policies

:18:00. > :18:05.means that we are doing what we can to ensure that the future is

:18:06. > :18:08.brighter in Scotland. The number of people renting from a private

:18:09. > :18:12.landlord has doubled in a decade and something like 150,000 households

:18:13. > :18:18.are on a waiting list for social housing. Have you been asleep at the

:18:19. > :18:23.wheel? Certainly not. I would say that we are trying to put right the

:18:24. > :18:31.ills that went before. Write to buy was devastating in terms of our

:18:32. > :18:35.housing stock. And beyond that, the last Labour and Liberal coalition,

:18:36. > :18:41.the last term, the only built six council houses in the whole of

:18:42. > :18:46.Scotland. Daniel Johnson, he has a point. You didn't do enough when you

:18:47. > :18:49.were in power. That has been a financial crisis, a slump in

:18:50. > :18:56.home-building and it is harder to get a mortgage. It is not all their

:18:57. > :18:58.fault. I welcome the Shelter report because providing adequate,

:18:59. > :19:03.affordable housing is fundamental for a civilised society. But the

:19:04. > :19:09.only point that there is there is the sleight of hand that is going on

:19:10. > :19:14.with the figures. The only reason the SNP met the 30,000 housing

:19:15. > :19:18.target was by changing the category from social, rented housing to

:19:19. > :19:25.affordable housing. And in terms of the number of houses that were

:19:26. > :19:28.built, between 1997 and 2007, under the last Labour government, over

:19:29. > :19:34.40,000 social sector houses were built. So I think there is an awful

:19:35. > :19:39.lot more to do but frankly, the allegations made by the SNP do not

:19:40. > :19:46.stack up. He has got a point. You change the figures. You failed to

:19:47. > :19:52.meet the targets for delivering on social housing. At the beginning of

:19:53. > :19:58.this Parliament, the SNP said it would build 30,000 affordable

:19:59. > :20:01.houses. One of the things which I would say to the labour

:20:02. > :20:06.representative is that Iain Gray himself said of the last Labour

:20:07. > :20:11.government in Scotland that they put together the most amazing housing

:20:12. > :20:16.and homelessness policies, but they failed to build the housing. That is

:20:17. > :20:25.the reality. Six council houses, they built in the last government.

:20:26. > :20:29.In the last four years, the SNP have delivered more than 5000 council

:20:30. > :20:33.houses in Scotland. Hopefully there will be much more to come and we

:20:34. > :20:38.have pledged 50,000 affordable houses in the next parliamentary

:20:39. > :20:43.term. You promised 50,000. Labour promised 60,000. You are trying to

:20:44. > :20:47.outbid them. Having said that, house-builders say you need to build

:20:48. > :20:56.100,000 in order to keep up with demand. You are falling short, are

:20:57. > :21:01.you? -- aren't you? The real point is that this is a very real and

:21:02. > :21:09.serious item that all parties need to face up to. It is good that the

:21:10. > :21:14.SNP is have stepped up. Shelter have said that we need to provide that

:21:15. > :21:18.figure and it is quite right, all the parties need to do whatever they

:21:19. > :21:27.can in terms of meeting the housing challenge. That is why we pledge to

:21:28. > :21:33.60,000 new homes, and we also have a ?3000 matching for first-time

:21:34. > :21:38.buyers, and we are looking at regulating private rent increases,

:21:39. > :21:41.because as you mention, that is the other top item, the huge increase in

:21:42. > :21:45.the renting sector is a real challenge that Scotland has to meet.

:21:46. > :21:49.The problem is, changing the way that people pay, and readily can

:21:50. > :21:54.rent and the rest of it, it is a sign that you have failed. It is a

:21:55. > :21:59.sign that you are simply not delivering on a houses and I wonder,

:22:00. > :22:05.Kevin Stewart, whether actually you are 60,000 target, whether that is

:22:06. > :22:11.far short of what is needed across the board and you acknowledge that.

:22:12. > :22:15.And this is across all housing, isn't it? We have to ensure that

:22:16. > :22:18.housing is available for people. As I said previously, we have done a

:22:19. > :22:24.huge amount in terms of changing housing policy since the SNP took

:22:25. > :22:29.power. The abolition of the right to buy being one of the most important

:22:30. > :22:34.things. The delivery of 30,000 affordable houses is another. What

:22:35. > :22:39.we also have to ensure is that we have homes for the future. That is

:22:40. > :22:46.why the Pledge of 50,000 has been made. Daniel mentioned Labour's

:22:47. > :22:50.?3000 for first-time buyers. That is a policy built an extremely shady

:22:51. > :22:56.foundations as far as I am concerned. I have never bought a

:22:57. > :23:02.house. I would qualify for about ?3000 from Labour. There are huge

:23:03. > :23:06.amount of folks who are much more in need of that money. I think that is

:23:07. > :23:14.an ill thought out policy. It is certainly not a progressive one. And

:23:15. > :23:17.that is the kind of scenario that Labour are coming out with. If there

:23:18. > :23:23.are shady foundations to that policy, it is the fact that it is

:23:24. > :23:28.built on forgoing a cut to a passenger duty. That is how we're

:23:29. > :23:35.going fund it. But that is being cut. If you let me finish, it is a

:23:36. > :23:40.cut... How many times can you use one thing? If you let me finish, it

:23:41. > :23:46.is a cut that are disproportionately impacts the wealthy. The wealthiest

:23:47. > :23:50.20% will benefit by ?20 a year. The poorest, by only ?5. I think that is

:23:51. > :23:56.a progressive policy and I think that is positive. But you are also

:23:57. > :23:59.a progressive policy and I think using... I'm sorry, we are

:24:00. > :23:59.a progressive policy and I think time. Thank you both very much.

:24:00. > :25:46.Joining me now to talk about some of today's other news

:25:47. > :25:52.Joining me now to talk about some have the same needs. You cannot have

:25:53. > :25:54.a Visa policy that suits people in the south-east but disenfranchises

:25:55. > :25:59.people in the south-east of Scotland. I think it has been a

:26:00. > :26:03.victim of the immigration debate. In 2012, it was part of that whole

:26:04. > :26:06.package. I agree with the sentiment but I do not think it is an

:26:07. > :26:10.education issue. It is a growth issue. It makes no sense to bring

:26:11. > :26:14.the brightest to Scotland to make them study and then have them go

:26:15. > :26:18.away as soon as they finish. We need to allow these people to stay here

:26:19. > :26:24.and work, creating wealth and tax for the government. What if they do

:26:25. > :26:28.not want to stay in Scotland? What have they would rather move to

:26:29. > :26:31.London or the south-east? That is fine. They might want to move home

:26:32. > :26:36.and we should allow people to do what they want but we need to make

:26:37. > :26:38.them welcome when they are there and feel that they can stay if they

:26:39. > :26:43.wanted and come back in future if they want to. Moving on to a subject

:26:44. > :26:48.of a boycott, a sticky point about what is and is not a devolved. The

:26:49. > :26:52.UK Government is set to ban publicly funded institutions like a local

:26:53. > :26:57.councils from boycotting Israeli goods and services. Here is what the

:26:58. > :27:02.cabinet Minister, Matt Hancock, told us earlier. We have introduced

:27:03. > :27:06.clearer guidelines making it crystal clear that we have international

:27:07. > :27:10.agreement and we have free trade with many countries around the

:27:11. > :27:14.world. It is not for a council to decide who to boycott. We have one

:27:15. > :27:19.foreign policy set by the Foreign Office and it is not for the Council

:27:20. > :27:25.to decide who they will boycott. What do you make of this? Can they

:27:26. > :27:30.do this? It is a bit of a nonsense. Hancock is going to make this

:27:31. > :27:35.announcement tomorrow and that is no coincidence. It is about trade, not

:27:36. > :27:39.boycotts. We have a useful history of boycotts, boycotting everything

:27:40. > :27:45.from slave trade sugar to South African origins, and they have been

:27:46. > :27:49.quite powerful. -- South African oranges. More important for Israel

:27:50. > :27:53.is not banning goods from the occupied territories, it is brand

:27:54. > :27:57.Israel. I think Israel is worried that the brand is tarnished and as

:27:58. > :28:02.far as I am concerned, they are tarnishing their own brand by having

:28:03. > :28:06.more and more Israeli settlement in occupied territory. Labour have

:28:07. > :28:11.called this an attack on local democracy. Are they right? I think

:28:12. > :28:14.they are but I accept the sentiment. The government is worried about

:28:15. > :28:18.cultural relations and they are worried about growing anti-Semitism.

:28:19. > :28:21.I think they have a point because in Scotland, we have this perception of

:28:22. > :28:25.Israel being an aggressive act in the Middle East are surrounded by

:28:26. > :28:31.benevolent forces, which is emphatically not what is happening.

:28:32. > :28:34.They have said the same about Saudi Arabia. Israel have made many

:28:35. > :28:38.mistakes and they deserve some of this criticism but it is not the

:28:39. > :28:42.only aggressor in the region. It is part of a bigger picture. I think we

:28:43. > :28:45.fall into the trap often of saying that Israel is to blame for

:28:46. > :28:49.everything. This is about local democracy and I think he is wrong

:28:50. > :28:54.about that. We have to allow local councils to do what they want to do.

:28:55. > :28:59.I wonder, is it possible to say that this will happen? Is it possible for

:29:00. > :29:04.a government to issue an edict? They are now calling it guidelines rather

:29:05. > :29:08.than an agreement, so I don't know what will happen. This is a nonsense

:29:09. > :29:13.talking about local Council and for all the lean back foreign policy.

:29:14. > :29:21.Local councils, they should be able to decide from whom they want to

:29:22. > :29:25.buy. -- foreign policy. And local councils have made the decision not

:29:26. > :29:31.to buy Israeli goods. Even if this rule applied, they would scrap that.

:29:32. > :29:33.We are in an era of greater devolution, and that should be

:29:34. > :29:37.allowed to apply here as much as anywhere else. There we must leave

:29:38. > :29:41.it. Thank you both very much. We're back at the same

:29:42. > :29:45.time tomorrow night. Scotland's Grime Scene Queens

:29:46. > :30:14.have to deal with. Every single day in this job

:30:15. > :30:17.is completely different. This time, we're aiming higher

:30:18. > :30:22.than ever before. I'm raising my game

:30:23. > :30:32.and I WILL come out on top. Bring it on. Bring it on.

:30:33. > :30:40.Bring it on. This time, we're aiming higher

:30:41. > :30:44.than ever before. The Sport Relief season

:30:45. > :30:47.continues with