22/02/2016

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:00:00. > :00:29.Campaigns launched, well-rehearsed arguments expounded -

:00:30. > :00:48.Treated in this message to Scotland and campaigning in Scotland. I

:00:49. > :00:52.enjoyed doing that duelling the Independence Referendum and I look

:00:53. > :00:54.forward to making this item and again that we are better off

:00:55. > :00:58.together. We've been sampling the mood

:00:59. > :01:01.of the nation and we'll hear from Brussels as we debate the pros

:01:02. > :01:05.and cons of in and out. And the question we've been asking

:01:06. > :01:07.ourselves for weeks - is a deal on the fiscal

:01:08. > :01:42.framework finally possible? It was time to stand in the comments

:01:43. > :01:46.and make his argument. We are a great country and whatever

:01:47. > :01:52.choice we make we will still be great but I believe the choice is

:01:53. > :01:58.between being an even greater Britain inside the EU or I great

:01:59. > :02:03.leap into the unknown. And this time the Prime Minister has the SNP as an

:02:04. > :02:08.ally that there is a warning. I want to Scotland and the rest of the UK

:02:09. > :02:14.truly mean within the European Union. However if we are forced out

:02:15. > :02:18.of the EU I am certain the public in Scotland will demand a referendum on

:02:19. > :02:23.Scottish independence and we will protect our place in Europe. The man

:02:24. > :02:34.who wants are place to the out of Europe. Boris Johnson.

:02:35. > :02:38.I ask my right honourable friend the Prime Minister to explain to the

:02:39. > :02:45.House and to the country in exactly what way this deal returns

:02:46. > :02:52.sovereignty over any field of lawmaking to these houses of

:02:53. > :02:56.parliament? This deal brings back some welfare powers, it brings back

:02:57. > :03:01.some immigration powers, it brings back some bailouts powers. So he

:03:02. > :03:08.thought the deal was not good enough. Arleigh Burke MSP also

:03:09. > :03:21.agreed that. -- a Labour member Matt.

:03:22. > :03:24.He went on to say that the Prime Minister had accepted that the City

:03:25. > :03:29.of London would not have special status can bear to Europe's other

:03:30. > :03:31.stock exchanges. Why is there such a deficit in what the French President

:03:32. > :03:36.is saying and what the pie minister is saying?

:03:37. > :03:39.Well, just before we came on air I spoke to the Daily Record

:03:40. > :03:41.Westminster Editor Torcuil Crichton to find out how febrile

:03:42. > :03:55.Today was one of those classic Commons moments where you had high

:03:56. > :04:00.national politics clashing with personal ambition, revenge and

:04:01. > :04:05.jealousy because David Cameron came before the Commons today after he

:04:06. > :04:12.had had a huge blow for his old friend Michael Gove who went to the

:04:13. > :04:16.other side and an even bigger blow by the theatrical move by Boris

:04:17. > :04:22.Johnson to the outcome. David Cameron came facing half the Tory

:04:23. > :04:28.party against him, and eight new figurehead on the outcome pain.

:04:29. > :04:37.What's that he do? He turned on Boris Johnson and lacerated him and

:04:38. > :04:39.slash his argument about Boris Johnson's competition at argument

:04:40. > :04:44.about voting to leave in order to stay to get a better deal which is

:04:45. > :04:49.his tortured way of saying he wants to be Prime Minister. He managed to

:04:50. > :04:52.turn that around and deconstruct its because David Cameron said he had no

:04:53. > :05:01.further ambition except the best interests of the country, in other

:05:02. > :05:09.words Boris Johnson has a different interest. Where is the Conservative

:05:10. > :05:15.Party standing tonight? There was a meeting of the 1922 backbench

:05:16. > :05:18.committee. There was. This is a divided party and that was written

:05:19. > :05:23.large in the Commons today and backbenchers are as David Cameron to

:05:24. > :05:26.take it easy on Boris Johnson which is like asking somebody who has done

:05:27. > :05:35.a hit and run to time back and give a blast addition to the victim.

:05:36. > :05:38.David Cameron just let his anger and frustration of years with Boris

:05:39. > :05:45.Johnson vent today and cut him down. The trouble with that is that this

:05:46. > :05:49.is in danger of being a Tory psychodrama, this civil war in the

:05:50. > :05:54.Tory party. It is entertaining. It is the first time Labour MPs have

:05:55. > :05:57.been in the Commons for a long time and enjoyed themselves because

:05:58. > :06:04.usually the boot is on the other fruits but none of that is what the

:06:05. > :06:08.European referendum is all about. In Scotland will be a be a different

:06:09. > :06:14.type of conversation when it comes to this debate? There are two

:06:15. > :06:20.factors. Boris Johnson cleans he is one of the big figures you can shift

:06:21. > :06:24.opinion. Let us not pretend that Scottish viewers are any less immune

:06:25. > :06:29.to the political machinations at Westminster than they are to the

:06:30. > :06:32.plotlines of Eastenders or Coronation Street. Of course it will

:06:33. > :06:36.have an effect but Boris Johnson will not change votes in Scotland

:06:37. > :06:40.but the fact that things are falling apart a little bit for David Cameron

:06:41. > :06:48.will have an effect. The SNP which has strict discipline about April

:06:49. > :06:54.European front, that'll have an effect. There is a big gap in the

:06:55. > :06:58.market for the SNP, once again to the left, where Labour should be,

:06:59. > :07:04.and Labour are just not in this debate, about making a positive case

:07:05. > :07:09.for a social Europe, a cohesive unit, a unit that opens its arms to

:07:10. > :07:16.refugees. That is where the SNP will go and fill that void where there is

:07:17. > :07:18.not a positive case for Europe. Labour could be doing it but the SNP

:07:19. > :07:22.will. Thank you. Now there is no question

:07:23. > :07:24.that the continent of Europe has had an influence on what we

:07:25. > :07:28.eat in this country. So what better places to guage

:07:29. > :07:31.opinion than in restaurants, Our reporter Catriona Renton went

:07:32. > :07:35.on a tour of European eateries to find out what people think

:07:36. > :07:46.about the referendum. At the editorial meeting this

:07:47. > :07:52.morning the talk was all about Europe and we quickly got onto the

:07:53. > :07:56.topic of food. French, German, Italian. It took very little to

:07:57. > :08:01.persuade me to go out and take a sample of the flavour of what we

:08:02. > :08:07.were talking about out there. We started at this little part of Italy

:08:08. > :08:11.in the centre of Glasgow. This man is from Italy and works in

:08:12. > :08:15.Glasgow. He has lived here for two years so he will not have a vote. He

:08:16. > :08:25.thinks however that Scots should vote to leave the EU based on his

:08:26. > :08:32.experiences in Italy. The system is not working. Now we need something

:08:33. > :08:38.to wash our pizza down with. This German beer hall is a good bet. What

:08:39. > :08:41.does the owner think about the referendum? They would be lots of

:08:42. > :08:49.problems if we left and if we stay in there will still be problems. I

:08:50. > :08:55.am more tending to stay in at the moment. Now we could do with some

:08:56. > :09:00.cake for dessert. This person moved to Scotland from France over 60

:09:01. > :09:05.years ago. She thinks Scots would be better off out of the EU. Do we stay

:09:06. > :09:18.in or leave the EU? We should leave the EU. Why? Because the people here

:09:19. > :09:25.are nice and are wealthy enough to look after ourselves. It is one

:09:26. > :09:31.country and we should look after it the best we can. Without any

:09:32. > :09:36.stranger coming over and taking advantage. This time we went for a

:09:37. > :09:40.place with Scottish names to round off our meal. This person thinks we

:09:41. > :09:48.should stay in the European Union. There is no reason to leave. It

:09:49. > :09:52.would jeopardise jobs. A lot of the things we have built up, protections

:09:53. > :09:59.that Europe gives as, we should definitely keep. Now we know the

:10:00. > :10:02.date. There is four months to pick what to your taste.

:10:03. > :10:04.I'm now joined from Brussels by the Shadow Scottish Secretary,

:10:05. > :10:08.He's been making a speech there tonight and with me

:10:09. > :10:11.in the studio is the former Conservative MSP Brian Monteith

:10:12. > :10:29.Ian married, you were speaking in Brussels and you said opponents of

:10:30. > :10:32.the EU would deny rather than face the forces of globalisation but

:10:33. > :10:36.Jeremy Corbyn is against controversial trade deals. He is

:10:37. > :10:44.denying the forces of globalisation is he not? If you look at Scottish

:10:45. > :10:49.industry and British industry it is in the interest to stay within the

:10:50. > :10:52.European Union. I was with the Scottish Whisky Association last

:10:53. > :10:57.week and they were telling me the great benefits of being part of the

:10:58. > :11:00.European Union, not just with the half a billion people that live

:11:01. > :11:05.within it but with the bilateral trade agreements and other parts of

:11:06. > :11:08.the world. It is about jobs and livelihoods and putting forward a

:11:09. > :11:13.positive case as to why that is important for Scotland and the UK.

:11:14. > :11:17.That is the kind of conversation we had in Brussels today. It is about

:11:18. > :11:22.jobs and livelihoods. That is what one of your colleagues said. She

:11:23. > :11:26.said it is a Labour left-winger I come and leaving the European Union.

:11:27. > :11:32.You could end the rules against the state aid for the steel industry and

:11:33. > :11:38.support the steel industry in the UK. The state industry could be

:11:39. > :11:51.supported if conservative MPs were not voting regarding steel dumping.

:11:52. > :11:59.The rest of the Labour MPs are voting to stay in. We will be

:12:00. > :12:04.putting a positive case about why we should stay in. Being an integral

:12:05. > :12:07.part of rules to Scotians is in the interests of all Scots. Businesses

:12:08. > :12:12.will tell you that. Individual Scottish workers will tell you that.

:12:13. > :12:22.Social protections, cultural protections. Brian Monteith, Ian

:12:23. > :12:27.picked up on the point that the entire country is having to watch

:12:28. > :12:33.this conservative psychodrama being played out. We are all having to

:12:34. > :12:39.watch and listen again to the arguments of Margaret Thatcher and

:12:40. > :12:43.Geoffrey Howe. I do not see it that way at all. I struggle to recognise

:12:44. > :12:51.what Iain Murray is saying about the Labour Party. There is more than

:12:52. > :12:58.just one MP. There are many other Labour MPs who are speaking. They

:12:59. > :13:04.are speaking out against EU membership. He said six or seven.

:13:05. > :13:11.This is the Tory psychodrama. It is not about the Tory party. This is a

:13:12. > :13:16.binary referendum. Leave or stay. Across parties you will find

:13:17. > :13:22.divisions. It is only natural. That will play out. If people want to

:13:23. > :13:25.focus on personalities and partisan politics they are missing the

:13:26. > :13:31.biggest opportunity in a generation. Let us focus on a key issue,

:13:32. > :13:35.security. Iain Duncan Smith said yesterday that staying in the EU

:13:36. > :13:40.could contribute to more Paris style terror attacks. David Cameron put

:13:41. > :13:46.him firmly in his place today did he not? The Prime Minister was not

:13:47. > :13:54.trusting to the BBC security correspondent who revealed out the

:13:55. > :13:58.security services themselves believe that the most important

:13:59. > :14:04.relationships are not with EU countries but are worth the United

:14:05. > :14:09.States, Australia and so on. That is where the security relationship is

:14:10. > :14:13.strong. The fact that we have a terrific security service that we

:14:14. > :14:17.have no doubt that people would want to share information with us because

:14:18. > :14:22.we will be able to give them information that they need. Ian

:14:23. > :14:26.Murray, let us pick up on what Michael Gove was saying, a key

:14:27. > :14:29.figure in the out campaign, he was saying that as a minister she does

:14:30. > :14:35.not feel he has control over what he can do it is own job. And a Labour

:14:36. > :14:38.MP who has been a minister picked up on that as well. UK ministers do not

:14:39. > :14:44.have freedom to manoeuvre because the European Union. I do not accept

:14:45. > :14:48.that. There is this scaremongering story that the European Union

:14:49. > :14:52.contributes 90% of legislation in the UK. That is not true. The House

:14:53. > :14:56.of Commons library has looked at this time and time again and

:14:57. > :15:00.emphasised it is close to 10% or perhaps 12% if you take into account

:15:01. > :15:04.even the word unit. Let us look at what some of that legislation is.

:15:05. > :15:10.Holiday pay. Paternity pay. Social protections. All those kinds of

:15:11. > :15:14.issues that are low Scots and Brits to live in Spain or Italy or

:15:15. > :15:18.Germany. That is the kind of thing and I would've thought that it Iain

:15:19. > :15:20.Duncan Smith, I could go off, was on one side of the idle and, most Scots

:15:21. > :15:34.would want to be on the other. So some key issues at play here.

:15:35. > :15:39.Annie Conservative MEPs are supporting you in your campaign? I'm

:15:40. > :15:44.not aware of any and I are not troubled by it. This is about

:15:45. > :15:49.people. If I look at the polling and surveys, I find that why the

:15:50. > :15:55.Conservative voters are split 50-50, I find in the SNP it is nearly one

:15:56. > :15:59.third of SNP supporters who want out of the European Union and in the

:16:00. > :16:03.Labour Party it is a quarter. So there are large blocks of people in

:16:04. > :16:08.Scotland who are unrepresented by the parties they vote for. That is

:16:09. > :16:13.not very clever. I think what the party leaders should have done is

:16:14. > :16:19.have greater debate within their own parties. What about Nicola

:16:20. > :16:22.Sturgeon's point about leading to a second independence referendum? You

:16:23. > :16:29.could be putting the union you probably want to save by campaigning

:16:30. > :16:47.for an out road. Not at all. I think if people are worried about

:16:48. > :16:51.saving the union because of Nicola Sturgeon's sabre rattling, then they

:16:52. > :16:53.should vote for Scotland to leave the EU because that would bring us

:16:54. > :16:55.closer together. Iain Murray, on that final point, what are your

:16:56. > :16:58.views on a second independence referendum? How would it be if there

:16:59. > :17:01.was Brexit but Scotland voted to stay? I think we should stop talking

:17:02. > :17:05.about process and why we should be an integral part of the EU. Nicola

:17:06. > :17:10.Sturgeon is now arguing about -- for a social and economic union when she

:17:11. > :17:16.was not doing that last year. There is a case for jobs, for growth, for

:17:17. > :17:23.people's livelihoods. Oral and gas, financial lively -- financial

:17:24. > :17:25.services, all depend on a strong membership of the EU. Thank you both

:17:26. > :17:26.very much for joining us. Now, Mr Cameron may say he got

:17:27. > :17:29.a deal in Brussels last week but in the world of Scottish

:17:30. > :17:32.politics, we're still waiting for an agreement on a deal that

:17:33. > :17:35.would underpin the new powers coming Here's Lord Dunlop in the House

:17:36. > :17:49.of Lords this afternoon. The fiscal framework negotiations

:17:50. > :17:54.are at a sensitive and critical point. There have been intensive

:17:55. > :17:59.discussions between the UK and Scottish governments throughout last

:18:00. > :18:02.week. These have continued over the weekend and today. Significant

:18:03. > :18:09.progress has been made and while nothing is ever certain, a deal now

:18:10. > :18:13.seems within reach. Both governments are very conscious of pressing

:18:14. > :18:16.timetables for both this timetable and the Scottish Parliament to be

:18:17. > :18:22.able to scrutinise the fiscal framework before the bill reaches

:18:23. > :18:27.the final and mending stages in this house and also to enable the

:18:28. > :18:32.Scottish Parliament to consider a legislative consent motion. I have a

:18:33. > :18:37.great deal of sympathy with the remarks from many members of this

:18:38. > :18:42.house in relation to the importance of the fiscal framework. It's no

:18:43. > :18:46.exaggeration to say that without it, this entire legislation will fall

:18:47. > :18:50.apart. It's the most important part of the Smith settlement and it is

:18:51. > :18:54.deeply regrettable that here we are at the Parliamentary equivalent of

:18:55. > :18:57.the 11th hour and we still don't know what it is and what is in it.

:18:58. > :18:58.Joining me now is our Westminster Correspondent -

:18:59. > :19:10.The House of Lords earlier today, where are we tonight? The Scotland

:19:11. > :19:15.Bill is still going through Parliament. It has been passed by

:19:16. > :19:19.the comments already. This was a chance to discuss further details.

:19:20. > :19:23.There was frustration that they have not had a chance to scrutinise the

:19:24. > :19:26.fiscal framework. There is still no deal on that front but there has

:19:27. > :19:31.been a more optimistic tone in recent days than we had seen in

:19:32. > :19:39.previous weeks. Behind the scenes, talks have continue today. I

:19:40. > :19:44.understand there was further, conversations at ministerial level.

:19:45. > :19:48.John Swinney was down at the Treasury for talks with Greg Hands,

:19:49. > :19:52.the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. When he came out of those talks he

:19:53. > :19:56.said there were still significant is used to sort out but crucially, both

:19:57. > :20:02.sides were saying that progress had been made. I think one important

:20:03. > :20:06.thing that happened was that George Osborne turned up and try to bridge

:20:07. > :20:13.some of the gaps. Tomorrow is the second deadline that the MSP 's have

:20:14. > :20:18.set. So although we have said it before, time really is running out.

:20:19. > :20:22.As you and I have seen through in the past, often these deals are

:20:23. > :20:28.often quite finely balanced. If you cannot get one part right, the whole

:20:29. > :20:32.deal can collapse. But after the pessimism of recent weeks, it sounds

:20:33. > :20:36.like we are starting to get a more optimistic tone from both sides. It

:20:37. > :20:41.sounds like some of the issue 's have been solved. Is a deal there

:20:42. > :20:48.yet? Not quite, but we are getting there. What exactly is happening,

:20:49. > :20:52.there is a row about the Chief Secretary to the Treasury? MSP is on

:20:53. > :20:56.the devolution committee will quiz Mr Swinney and the Scottish

:20:57. > :20:59.Secretary David Mundell. One of the key criticisms of this the

:21:00. > :21:04.distillation process so far, Alistair Darling made this point in

:21:05. > :21:07.the Lords, is that it has been behind closed doors. We have a rough

:21:08. > :21:12.idea of some of the sticking points but when it comes to the minutiae,

:21:13. > :21:15.we are not sure what the problems. It'll be interesting to see how much

:21:16. > :21:43.detail we get from John Swinney and David Mundell on what

:21:44. > :21:45.the sticking points are, whether they have been bridged and whether

:21:46. > :21:49.we are nearly at the deal or whether there is no prospect of one at all.

:21:50. > :21:51.One man who will not be talking to MSP 's is Greg Hands, Chief

:21:52. > :21:53.Secretary to the Treasury. He has led a lot of the negotiations on

:21:54. > :21:56.behalf of the Scottish Government. He has declined a request to appear

:21:57. > :21:59.for the finance committee later this week. The committee has asked him to

:22:00. > :22:02.reconsider I did the key will be doing that. He's that I don't think

:22:03. > :22:03.he will be doing that. But he will appear before them at some stage. --

:22:04. > :22:05.I don't think he will be doing that. And you can watch extensive coverage

:22:06. > :22:08.of the Devolution Committee from 8:30 tomorrow morning on BBC

:22:09. > :22:10.Scotland's Holyrood Live webpage. Hamish Henderson's songs

:22:11. > :22:12.are still known internationally, but makers of a new documentary felt

:22:13. > :22:15.the man himself was in danger Ahead of tomorrow's world premiere

:22:16. > :22:18.at the Glasgow Film Festival - our arts correspondent

:22:19. > :22:33.Pauline McLean had a preview. He was a poet, a singer and a

:22:34. > :22:38.songwriter who, as well as writing his own, gathered songs from around

:22:39. > :22:45.the country, recording and documenting them and safeguarding

:22:46. > :22:49.them for future generations. They tell their fault with plenty of

:22:50. > :22:53.action stop macro but while the songs were safe, the makers of this

:22:54. > :22:59.film felt that Hamish Henderson himself was in danger of being

:23:00. > :23:03.forgotten. They searched archive including unseen family film and

:23:04. > :23:10.spoke to 22 of his closest friends about the man and his music. One of

:23:11. > :23:13.Hamish's biggest country since the Scottish life was in being involved

:23:14. > :23:20.in setting up the school of Scottish studies in which contains the last

:23:21. > :23:24.glimmerings of the oral tradition of Scottish life. So many aspects have

:23:25. > :23:28.been recorded for posterity and that lives on in the spirit of Celtic

:23:29. > :23:33.connections, one of the biggest winter festivals in the world for

:23:34. > :23:37.music. That this down to Hamish in many respects. He was the standard

:23:38. > :23:47.bearer that allowed that traditional music renaissance in Scotland to

:23:48. > :23:51.happen. This South African singer shared Hamish Henderson's most

:23:52. > :23:58.famous song at the opening of the Commonwealth Games. The makers of

:23:59. > :24:03.Hamish hope their home, which has its world premiere at the Glasgow

:24:04. > :24:06.film Festival tomorrow, we'll do the same for the songwriter.

:24:07. > :24:10.I'm now joined by the author and commentator Dr Gerry Hassan

:24:11. > :24:14.and the health journalist Pennie Taylor.

:24:15. > :24:20.Good evening to you both. Thanks for joining me. Really interesting

:24:21. > :24:26.debates in the European Union and the campaign seems well underway. --

:24:27. > :24:32.interesting debates on the European Union. What you make of the Tory

:24:33. > :24:37.division and hearing about the 1922 committee meeting this evening and

:24:38. > :24:43.telling the Prime Minister to go easy on Boris Johnson? It has been a

:24:44. > :24:47.couple of days of Tory party theatre. Boris Johnson announcing

:24:48. > :24:52.today that he was for the out campaign, and ill kept secret. And

:24:53. > :24:56.today when Cameron laid down the fact that he was so wounded and

:24:57. > :25:00.displeased. This is part of a long-running set of this years.

:25:01. > :25:07.Cameron said a few years ago that he wasn't going to bang on about

:25:08. > :25:14.Europe. -- a long-running set of cracks. Even if this is a win, it be

:25:15. > :25:19.a countdown to the end of David Cameron. He has stuck himself with

:25:20. > :25:24.this. He made an interesting point, he said I'm not up for re-election,

:25:25. > :25:28.a pointed reference to Boris Johnson. Basically saying that the

:25:29. > :25:33.man is out for themselves. I read the Telegraph today where Boris

:25:34. > :25:37.Johnson was saying his piece to the captive audience, the readership of

:25:38. > :25:42.the Daily Telegraph, where he appeared to be aligning himself to

:25:43. > :25:47.Winston Churchill and knocking Brussels as being a representative

:25:48. > :25:52.of a nanny state, which for a man of his background, would have been

:25:53. > :25:56.rather comforting, I would have thought! Labour, speaking to Ian

:25:57. > :26:00.Murray and hearing his argument, where have Labour been in this

:26:01. > :26:06.argument? Jeremy Corbyn added a rough ride in the Commons. He days,

:26:07. > :26:14.and Jeremy Corbyn has not been a front line politician. Pupils at the

:26:15. > :26:19.wrong moment at -- and when he said he had gone to Brussels. And allow

:26:20. > :26:24.the Tories to jump in and save and they ask who are you? There's an

:26:25. > :26:28.absent Labour agenda on social Europe. As the commentator was

:26:29. > :26:33.saying earlier, is give the SNP a big chance. Very few Labour people,

:26:34. > :26:39.maybe only a couple of Labour MPs have gone for the out campaign, but

:26:40. > :26:46.there is and absence of a powerful Labour campaign and agenda. Penny,

:26:47. > :26:49.Kate Hoey is making the point that there is a left-wing argument for

:26:50. > :26:56.leaving but we don't hear that so much in this debate? Maybe it is a

:26:57. > :27:00.Labour tactic to leave it as a fight between Tories and Tories in the

:27:01. > :27:05.south of England, because it strikes me that this feels very distant from

:27:06. > :27:09.the political scene in Scotland. It will be interesting to see how it

:27:10. > :27:14.unfolds over the next few months. Right now, it seems to be something

:27:15. > :27:18.that is happening down there. An interesting point, perhaps the

:27:19. > :27:22.conversation will be different in Scotland. Brian Monteith was saying

:27:23. > :27:25.that there was a democratic deficit, people in Scotland don't have a

:27:26. > :27:32.choice because the main parties support staying in. That is right,

:27:33. > :27:36.but Penny is right as well. UK electoral contests often feel in

:27:37. > :27:40.Scotland because they are happening elsewhere because of Tory England

:27:41. > :27:45.and because we are in a union of 65 million people. England has become a

:27:46. > :27:50.Eurosceptic country and Scotland has more and more become a European

:27:51. > :27:53.country. And our polling shows that about Scotland. But the problem we

:27:54. > :27:58.have is that the European Union, the kind that the Scots want, maybe is

:27:59. > :28:03.not on offer in Europe and certainly is not on offer on the ballot paper

:28:04. > :28:10.because we have two versions of Euroscepticism. It is somebody

:28:11. > :28:16.else's debate. Is very great love of the European Union in Scotland as an

:28:17. > :28:22.institution? Is it something that people don't have an emotional

:28:23. > :28:27.attachment to? I think perhaps there is a greater emotional attachment to

:28:28. > :28:32.Europe in Scotland. The vote will tell that. But interestingly, in the

:28:33. > :28:35.Telegraph today, Boris Johnson seems to be indicating that he didn't

:28:36. > :28:40.think there would be much different between the way England and Scotland

:28:41. > :28:46.vote over this. I think he is wrong. But time will tell. Just before we

:28:47. > :28:55.go, I want to pick up, there will be a new newspaper launch called The

:28:56. > :29:01.New Day. What you make of that? At a time when the Independent has closed

:29:02. > :29:06.its print division. It does seem quite a risky venture, but it is

:29:07. > :29:13.possible for new titles when you have very little journalistic costs,

:29:14. > :29:16.the National being a success there. It daring enterprise. As a

:29:17. > :29:23.journalist, I like to see the launch of a new newspaper. I'm sceptical

:29:24. > :29:29.about its target market. It strikes me that it is going to be aiming at

:29:30. > :29:33.a female market. Personally, as a woman, I would rather see a lots

:29:34. > :29:39.more investigative journalism, which is expensive journalism, then happy

:29:40. > :29:40.stories pulled from the wire. -- than happy stories pulled from the

:29:41. > :29:43.wires. Thank you very much. Shelley will be back

:29:44. > :29:46.at the same time tomorrow. From all of us on the programme,

:29:47. > :30:03.have a good night. Bye for now. Join Steve Backshall

:30:04. > :30:22.on the top of a lost world. I've kept what happened to me

:30:23. > :30:32.buried away for 50 years. I only want to know

:30:33. > :30:34.if he's all right. My guess is that Anthony was adopted

:30:35. > :30:38.and sent to America. She's spent her whole life

:30:39. > :30:45.trying to find him. I just want to talk to you

:30:46. > :30:47.about my son. He was taken from me and I've been

:30:48. > :30:50.looking for him ever since.