:00:00. > :00:00.The freeze is off and the thaw is on.
:00:00. > :00:26.Council tax is being reformed by the Scottish Government.
:00:27. > :00:28.Nicola Sturgeon says she's reforming council tax -
:00:29. > :00:34.but what happened to the SNP's radical plans to ditch it?
:00:35. > :00:37.We'll debate with the minister in charge, Labour and the Conservatives
:00:38. > :00:41.as the Government's accused of merely tinkering.
:00:42. > :00:43.And concussion concerns - is rugby being kicked into touch
:00:44. > :00:56.as some medics demand that tackling in school is given the heave?
:00:57. > :00:59."We'll scrap the unfair council tax," the SNP manifesto
:01:00. > :01:07.Today the First Minister announces some reforms to adjust bands
:01:08. > :01:11.so ?100 million extra is raised for education.
:01:12. > :01:14.Critics say - nine years on - the SNP's being timid
:01:15. > :01:17.and squandering an opportunity for real reform.
:01:18. > :01:26.Here's our local government correspondent, Jamie McIvor.
:01:27. > :01:32.For a relatively modest change, this has been a long time in the making.
:01:33. > :01:38.The SNP used to want to replace the council tax completely, now they are
:01:39. > :01:41.opting for mere reform. I'm announcing today some short-term
:01:42. > :01:45.changes to the current council tax system that helped to make it fairer
:01:46. > :01:50.by asking those at the top to pay a bit more, allowing those at the
:01:51. > :01:55.bottom and to pay a bit less. Over the long term, we want to reduce
:01:56. > :01:59.council 's' dependence on central government grant, diversify forces
:02:00. > :02:04.of funding. Arbor tries in Glasgow, it is home to many millionaires but
:02:05. > :02:07.is a street of contrasts. It is the people who live in the more
:02:08. > :02:12.expensive houses who feel the impact. They could see their council
:02:13. > :02:17.tax bills rise significantly. But at the other end of the street,
:02:18. > :02:21.the impact will be very different. Here there will not be any dramatic
:02:22. > :02:26.changes, but Glasgow City Council could, of course, choose to put in
:02:27. > :02:30.council tax by up to 3%. Here is how the owners of the more
:02:31. > :02:33.expensive homes could be affected. According to the Scottish
:02:34. > :02:38.Government, the average band D household would pay more than ?100 a
:02:39. > :02:43.year extra, the average household in the very highest band would see
:02:44. > :02:48.their bills rise by more than ?500. There will be debate about the
:02:49. > :02:52.merits of the SNP proposals, but they are modest foursome. A
:02:53. > :02:56.commission last year looked at local government taxation carefully and
:02:57. > :03:00.came up with some more radical options. We have had a commission on
:03:01. > :03:05.tax reform which did a really good job, collected vast amounts of
:03:06. > :03:08.information and evidence, consulted throughout Scotland and concluded
:03:09. > :03:11.that although they did not come up with a specific, the council tax
:03:12. > :03:17.should end, the council tax stands still should end, there is an unfair
:03:18. > :03:21.scheme of taxation. What we have is a council tax with a fewer bells and
:03:22. > :03:28.whistles. The SNP's opponents were, mostly,
:03:29. > :03:31.unimpressed. The SNP seem more determined to take control from
:03:32. > :03:36.local communities and authorities. They think they know best in this
:03:37. > :03:41.place over my shoulder, I think local communities know that. These
:03:42. > :03:44.plans are insulting and timid. We believe local government should be
:03:45. > :03:47.more autonomous, we believe in strengthening local democracy,
:03:48. > :03:53.eating them the powers to raise money they want to spend on local
:03:54. > :03:59.services. The SNP argued that the money raised will boost spending on
:04:00. > :04:03.education. For some, council tax is just one issue. Less than 15% of
:04:04. > :04:07.their cash comes from it. I am surprised so little has been
:04:08. > :04:11.announced from the point of view of adjusting the bands, it looks like
:04:12. > :04:15.tinkering around the edges, if that was to deliver the quality it could
:04:16. > :04:17.have eaten a considerable number of years ago.
:04:18. > :04:23.As the Scottish Government becomes responsible for income tax, we
:04:24. > :04:29.propose that a portion of council 's' current grant is replaced by the
:04:30. > :04:32.assignation of income tax revenues. That'll help to incentivise councils
:04:33. > :04:36.to help us grow the economy, the more successful we are there, the
:04:37. > :04:39.more revenue there will be for local services.
:04:40. > :04:44.While radical council tax reform might be of the SNP agenda for now,
:04:45. > :04:45.voters can decide if they approve in May.
:04:46. > :04:48.Joining me now to discuss council tax reform we have the Local
:04:49. > :04:50.Government Minister Marco Biagi from Edinburgh,
:04:51. > :04:51.the Conservative Finance Spokesperson Murdo Fraser
:04:52. > :04:54.is in Dundee, and here with me is Labour's Community Spokesperson,
:04:55. > :05:08.Gentlemen, good evening. Thank you for joining me. Marco Biagi, with me
:05:09. > :05:16.I have the manifesto from 2007, Alex Salmond wrote, we will scrap the
:05:17. > :05:22.unfair council tax and introduce a local income tax. After nine years,
:05:23. > :05:27.why do we still have the unfair council tax? Gulp I recall it was
:05:28. > :05:31.the parties you have represented by others tonight but voted to stop us
:05:32. > :05:35.doing much. There has been an election since then, in 2011 we were
:05:36. > :05:40.elected on a promise to freeze the council tax and consult with others
:05:41. > :05:45.on a fairer system. We have frozen the council tax, we have a
:05:46. > :05:49.commission that I was co-chair of, we are putting forward a series of
:05:50. > :05:53.reforms including short-term reforms to council tax, bigger changes
:05:54. > :05:57.indicated in terms of the fundamental shift that comes when
:05:58. > :06:02.you take the income tax and put it into the local governments fear and,
:06:03. > :06:06.indeed, also in the package announced... It is not local income
:06:07. > :06:13.taxed, your critics say you are ducking reforms, the party says you
:06:14. > :06:21.squander this opportunity. We have not had a re-evaluation since 1991.
:06:22. > :06:24.We are the first party to put these proposals forward. The criticism is
:06:25. > :06:28.strange coming from people who have not put forward what they want to
:06:29. > :06:32.do. Perhaps we might hear some of that this evening. We have a
:06:33. > :06:38.measured step that will in the next year, and people need clarity, the
:06:39. > :06:42.20 17th do changes that will raise a little bit more for schools from
:06:43. > :06:46.people at the very top, bearing in mind three quarters of households
:06:47. > :06:50.will pay no more, but which set in place the bigger changes over the
:06:51. > :06:54.medium-term through the Parliament whereby a portion of income tax will
:06:55. > :06:58.move into the local governments fear and a bigger chunk... Let's hear
:06:59. > :07:05.from your opponent, Ken Macintosh. Mr Biaggi made that point, you have
:07:06. > :07:10.been quick to criticise the Scottish Government's proposals, what does
:07:11. > :07:13.Labour propose? We will announce shortly, but we're here today
:07:14. > :07:18.because the SNP have told us what they plan to do. I was hoping that
:07:19. > :07:22.Mr Biaggi would start with an apology for a broken promise. He
:07:23. > :07:27.promised to abolish the unfair council tax, the punitive council
:07:28. > :07:33.tax and replace it with something based on ability to pay. He promised
:07:34. > :07:38.it twice. I was wondering what excuse he would come up with,
:07:39. > :07:43.apparently it is our fault, that the opposition parties, despite the fact
:07:44. > :07:47.they have in overall majority in parliament, the other parties that
:07:48. > :07:54.stop them doing this. Apps Marco would like to apologise? What will
:07:55. > :07:59.lead the cupboard instead? We have outlined several policies, we will
:08:00. > :08:03.outline our policies on local government before the election, in
:08:04. > :08:09.the next few days and weeks. We have been waiting nine years to hear how
:08:10. > :08:13.the SNP will replace the punitive unfair council tax. After nine years
:08:14. > :08:19.they come up with a policy remarkably similar, less fire and
:08:20. > :08:24.less progressive, than the one we stood on in 2007. De Vos Murdo
:08:25. > :08:29.Fraser, turning the clock back to the early 1990s, the Conservatives
:08:30. > :08:37.have perhaps poisoned the well of local taxation with the poll tax? It
:08:38. > :08:43.is difficult for any parties to move on? So it is our fault? You could
:08:44. > :08:47.not make this up. Four years we have had to put up with the SNP telling
:08:48. > :08:53.us they would scrap the hated... The hated council tax, telling us that
:08:54. > :08:57.tinkering at the edges would not be good enough. They set up a tax
:08:58. > :09:02.commission, we do not take part because we say we are having run
:09:03. > :09:08.parallel tax commission under the chairmanship of Sir Ian Botham.
:09:09. > :09:18.People like Marco Biagi criticise us for not participating -- said Ian
:09:19. > :09:23.Macmillan. The SNP today are giving two fingers to their own cross-party
:09:24. > :09:27.commission and adopting wholescale, more or less would forward, key
:09:28. > :09:33.recommendations from our low tax commission. I would be sending
:09:34. > :09:40.Nicola Sturgeon eight Copyright charge tonight if I were certainly
:09:41. > :09:43.in Mac Millan. You're saying it is making Scotland more expensive to
:09:44. > :09:49.live in, but council taxes compared to the lower than in England? You
:09:50. > :09:53.have to put together what has been proposed in council tax with the
:09:54. > :10:02.changes already put in for the stamp duty replacement and the way that it
:10:03. > :10:05.lumps of very substantial additional charges to larger properties. What
:10:06. > :10:10.estate agents and property agents will tell you, outside hot spots
:10:11. > :10:14.like the centre of Edinburgh and Glasgow, it is causing a stagnation
:10:15. > :10:19.in the property market. We are already getting evidence that there
:10:20. > :10:24.is a perception across the UK that Scotland is becoming more expensive
:10:25. > :10:30.to live in because of the combination of other potential tax
:10:31. > :10:36.changes and LBBT. Let's be careful about the overall impact. Marco
:10:37. > :10:42.Biagi, Nicola Sturgeon had her photocall, you are saying it is ?100
:10:43. > :10:46.million extra for education. I think you're worrying about what Labour
:10:47. > :10:53.are saying with the extra penny in income tax, and the Lib Dems. Why is
:10:54. > :10:57.it being ring fenced for education? The First Minister has been very
:10:58. > :11:01.clear since she took office that education is a personal priority,
:11:02. > :11:06.something we should be judged by. In the recent Budget we doubled the
:11:07. > :11:09.attainment fund going into school to target the intractable issues of
:11:10. > :11:14.attainment. This is a clear priority. I was quite amused by
:11:15. > :11:21.Murdo Fraser, he seemed to be in favour and against what we put
:11:22. > :11:25.forward. If his policy is to put ?500 on each household to fund state
:11:26. > :11:31.schools, he is deviating from the political lifetime that he has
:11:32. > :11:36.behind him. This is a progressive change not just because there are
:11:37. > :11:40.reforms to the basis of council tax, that is a modest improvement, but
:11:41. > :11:46.because of the wholesale move to take some of the income tax we
:11:47. > :11:51.already pay, not an additional income tax, but serve the income tax
:11:52. > :11:57.already paid and put into local government. I would like to put that
:11:58. > :12:02.to Ken Macintosh, you reemphasised modernist, but you are against the
:12:03. > :12:06.assignation of the income tax? Why don't you want to share with your
:12:07. > :12:10.local government colleagues? We put a policy to the Department last week
:12:11. > :12:15.in which we would use the powers of the parliament to use progressive
:12:16. > :12:18.taxation measures and give ?500 million for education through local
:12:19. > :12:23.government. This is one of the most harebrained parts of the SNP
:12:24. > :12:28.proposal, they want to assigning contextual local Godman. John
:12:29. > :12:32.Swinney has spent the last three months trying to negotiate a deal
:12:33. > :12:36.with the Treasury, income tax revenue is volatile, it goes up and
:12:37. > :12:40.down, and he insisted, quite rightly, in my view, on a no
:12:41. > :12:47.detriment clause. I would like to hear there is no detriment to local
:12:48. > :12:51.authorities. It is not fair, some authorities, the income tax revenue
:12:52. > :12:55.stream will be very high. The more prosperous authorities like
:12:56. > :12:59.Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh, and the most deprived,
:13:00. > :13:06.will have very little income. That is not fair or right. Murdo Fraser,
:13:07. > :13:12.will this issue come back again? We will have this election in May, the
:13:13. > :13:15.2017 council election? We have waited nine years for the Scottish
:13:16. > :13:21.Government to come up with a change to the council tax, it is a very
:13:22. > :13:26.modest change, Sun is quite sensible. Given it has taken so long
:13:27. > :13:30.to come up with alternatives, I would not expect more radical
:13:31. > :13:32.alternatives any time soon. The system is well understood and I
:13:33. > :13:37.don't think we should impose a radical change. Murdo Fraser, Ken
:13:38. > :13:39.Macintosh and Marco Biagi, thank you for joining us.
:13:40. > :13:42.A group of 70 doctors and academics has called for a ban on tackling
:13:43. > :13:45.They highlight the risks of concussion which -
:13:46. > :13:47.they say - can have lifelong consequences for children.
:13:48. > :13:49.But supporters of the sport say it challenges youngsters
:13:50. > :13:54.And the Scottish Rugby Union - which says it's committed to player
:13:55. > :13:56.welfare at every level - says every sport carries some risk.
:13:57. > :14:10.These pupils are members of the elite School of rugby at Wallace
:14:11. > :14:16.Hartley in Stirling. Their coach has been playing rugby since he was
:14:17. > :14:20.five, not surprisingly he is a passionate advocate of" children
:14:21. > :14:24.getting a lot out of it, they become more confident within themselves and
:14:25. > :14:29.their own abilities, especially just the physical aspect of it, they
:14:30. > :14:32.really progress and they become a lot fitter and confident about their
:14:33. > :14:36.ability in other sports as well as rugby.
:14:37. > :14:42.It seems that his pupils agree. It is really good to work as a team.
:14:43. > :14:46.It can be physical sometimes, do you enjoy that?
:14:47. > :14:50.Yes. It is good fitness and it is fun.
:14:51. > :14:56.I guess you have not been playing for one, why are you playing rugby
:14:57. > :14:58.and what did you think about it as a game?
:14:59. > :15:03.It is fun, it is a team sport and you get fitness as well.
:15:04. > :15:07.It includes fitness and good physical nature. For football that
:15:08. > :15:09.is like skill and running but this is about strength and all-round
:15:10. > :15:13.sport. The school has a bit of a tradition
:15:14. > :15:19.of producing players of the highest level. Finn Russell went to the
:15:20. > :15:27.school. Yes, it is really good for all-round
:15:28. > :15:32.rugby. There are only a small number of schools that can help rugby
:15:33. > :15:37.players like this. But rugby is inherently a contact
:15:38. > :15:41.sport and that has its own dangers. It was my fault, it was the tackle
:15:42. > :15:45.technique that I had used was wrong, I got my head in front of someone's
:15:46. > :15:51.my and I got it in the side of the head and knocked out.
:15:52. > :15:55.I not worried you could have got damaged, there is the potential for
:15:56. > :15:59.injury, is there not? There is, but I do not think it
:16:00. > :16:04.affected me. I took plenty of time to recover after my head north and
:16:05. > :16:07.it is taken very seriously, especially for the safety of the
:16:08. > :16:09.children, that is the most important thing.
:16:10. > :16:16.Those behind the letters today have said that tackles have no place in
:16:17. > :16:20.school sports like this. But is it necessary to take away all the rest?
:16:21. > :16:22.-- risk. I'm now joined in the studio
:16:23. > :16:25.by John Beattie, the former Scotland rugby international
:16:26. > :16:26.and now a BBC presenter. He's investigated the issue
:16:27. > :16:29.of concussion in the sport. And from London we have
:16:30. > :16:36.Allyson Pollock, professor of public Guidelines to both of you, thank you
:16:37. > :16:42.for joining me. To you first, John, no tackling in the scrums and rocks,
:16:43. > :16:45.is the game of rugby being sacrificed?
:16:46. > :16:52.If you take tackling out of the game, you no longer have rugby. I
:16:53. > :16:56.think Allyson and I both have things in in this. I have children playing
:16:57. > :17:02.in the game, but I've looked at rugby, and I think, in terms of my
:17:03. > :17:05.life it has been of incredible value, and where we are all beating
:17:06. > :17:08.around the bush is that we're guessing as to whether rugby is good
:17:09. > :17:11.or bad for you. We know that football is good for you,
:17:12. > :17:17.International studies have shown that it is better to play it than
:17:18. > :17:21.not to play it. So we are all doing programmes about concussion, we have
:17:22. > :17:25.parents that are terrified, children who are terrified that they might
:17:26. > :17:29.get blinded or injured playing rugby. We have to have one of these
:17:30. > :17:32.school studies that find out if rugby is good for you. And then we
:17:33. > :17:39.will know. At the moment, we both have thieves and we both wonder, but
:17:40. > :17:43.we have to find out. If we find out it is good for us, it will be a
:17:44. > :17:47.great game. That has been a brilliant game for me.
:17:48. > :17:53.Professor Pollock, do you have the research evidence to back this up?
:17:54. > :17:57.There is a lot of worldwide evidence from surveys, but John is correct,
:17:58. > :18:00.the big problem is that neither the government or the rugby unions have
:18:01. > :18:05.been collecting and monitoring injury data in the children.
:18:06. > :18:11.However, we do have enough evidence from what has been happening from
:18:12. > :18:17.surveys to suggest that there is the potential, there are high risks and
:18:18. > :18:24.rates of injuries. There is a study in Ulster that was conducted in 28
:18:25. > :18:30.schools and published in December of this year that it the hundred and 25
:18:31. > :18:36.more than 304 were actually injured in one season. That is 36% injury
:18:37. > :18:41.rate. These were serious injuries, fractures, dislocated shoulders,
:18:42. > :18:45.head traumas and concussion. John is correct, we do not have a lot of
:18:46. > :18:49.studies but the ones that we have show that more than 90% of the
:18:50. > :18:54.injuries are occurring during contact. It is a no-brainer, we must
:18:55. > :18:59.remove the collision and contact until it is shown that it is safe
:19:00. > :19:03.enough to be reintroduced. John, a no-brainer and the little
:19:04. > :19:08.evidence that there is suggest there is a real risk there.
:19:09. > :19:12.I am not sure that I agree because only one out of every six head
:19:13. > :19:17.admissions to hospital from children are from any kind of sport or
:19:18. > :19:22.recreational activity. The most dangerous thing that a child can do
:19:23. > :19:26.is to play unsupervised and, OK, we could assume that rugby is fairly
:19:27. > :19:31.dangerous, I have had my operations and Ehab replacement. On balance,
:19:32. > :19:35.was the game good for me or not? I do not know, but I think it was. So
:19:36. > :19:39.I would be unwilling to make any sweeping changes to rugby, I had a
:19:40. > :19:45.phone call from an old physical education teacher friend who said
:19:46. > :19:49.that children told him that they enjoy the contact. We do not know if
:19:50. > :19:54.that is good or bad for you, but we must find that out. To rush into
:19:55. > :19:58.taking this out of a game that is quite fun, although it causes
:19:59. > :20:03.injury, would damage the game long term.
:20:04. > :20:10.Professor Pollock, Abe going to far, is this risk reward, should children
:20:11. > :20:13.be streamed in terms of weight or age, perhaps that would be something
:20:14. > :20:16.that would help to tackle the problem?
:20:17. > :20:22.One of the problems again is that we have no evidence that matching top
:20:23. > :20:25.weight and age makes any difference. A lot of initiatives are rolled out
:20:26. > :20:31.and are never evaluated. What we must know that more than 90% of the
:20:32. > :20:35.injuries occurred during contact and collision and we know from the
:20:36. > :20:39.number of studies that the rates and risks of injuries are high. That is
:20:40. > :20:44.why they have to put the child at the centre and not just the interest
:20:45. > :20:47.of the game. We are making some assumptions that you only get
:20:48. > :20:51.benefits from rugby but you do not get them from the other sports and
:20:52. > :20:55.other activities, which have lower injury rates. So it is not just
:20:56. > :21:00.about what is unique to rugby, that is over egging the pudding a bit, it
:21:01. > :21:04.is about what children get from physical activity and the enjoyment
:21:05. > :21:10.of the game. We must remember that the most common reason for children
:21:11. > :21:16.giving up rugby is the fear of injury or being injured, or the
:21:17. > :21:20.interference with their education. So, John, do you think calls like
:21:21. > :21:26.this are putting the rest of the future of rugby in jeopardy?
:21:27. > :21:31.Yes, I worry about it as an expert. One of the numbers that I like as an
:21:32. > :21:36.ex-auditor, only 5% of children in Scotland play rugby. It is not in
:21:37. > :21:41.the school curriculum. Very schools play rugby, that 5% is fantastically
:21:42. > :21:45.inflated by the way that the measure things in Scotland. I think it would
:21:46. > :21:48.be alarmist. I think that we both agree, firstly, let us find out if
:21:49. > :21:54.rugby is good or bad for you, then they can have these arguments, but
:21:55. > :21:58.nobody knows. We should start in Scotland and find out if this game
:21:59. > :21:59.is good for us. If it is good, let us expand.
:22:00. > :22:02.Thank you both for joining me. Time for a look at the rest
:22:03. > :22:04.of today's stories. Before I'm joined by my guests,
:22:05. > :22:07.let's look at a clip The SNP's Angus Robertson laid out
:22:08. > :22:11.what he saw as the benefits of the European Union,
:22:12. > :22:13.pointing out that co-operation between countries meant
:22:14. > :22:22.there was peace and not war. While the Prime Minister concentrate
:22:23. > :22:28.on the positive arguments for EU membership and reject the approach
:22:29. > :22:32.of Project Fear? My arguments about being stronger in
:22:33. > :22:36.the reformed European Union and safer in the EU and better off and
:22:37. > :22:40.that reformed EU are all positive arguments. I would add the Portland
:22:41. > :22:46.that he makes that things like pollution crosses borders. --
:22:47. > :22:50.pollution. So it make sense to work together. The fundamental point that
:22:51. > :22:53.he makes is worth thinking about. He and I are both post-war children but
:22:54. > :22:59.we must never forget that when we sit around that table, 70 years ago
:23:00. > :23:03.these countries were murdering each other on the continent of Europe.
:23:04. > :23:05.Joining me now to discuss is the investigations editor
:23:06. > :23:08.for the Sunday Herald, Paul Hutcheon, and the Daily
:23:09. > :23:09.Record's feature writer Anna Burnside.
:23:10. > :23:16.Welcome both. Thank you for joining me. The bit of Prime Minister's
:23:17. > :23:21.Questions today, Paul, Project Fear, that was the essence of the speech
:23:22. > :23:24.of Nicola Sturgeon in London on Monday and today, the government
:23:25. > :23:28.released what Iain Duncan Smith called a dodgy dossier.
:23:29. > :23:31.Yes, I heard this phrase Project Fear a lot but I do not think that
:23:32. > :23:37.people should be surprised that the inside would want to poke holes in
:23:38. > :23:41.the campaign for Brexit. Even those who want to be the European Union
:23:42. > :23:46.must admit that there are questions about our readmittance to the single
:23:47. > :23:50.market. I think that criticisms of negative campaigning are a little
:23:51. > :23:53.bit overplayed. What I find interesting about the Project Fear
:23:54. > :24:00.aspect however is that there is a clear divide in the In campaign. The
:24:01. > :24:05.Lib Dems and the SNP are speaking about the positive benefits of EU
:24:06. > :24:10.membership. The other side you have Cameron and Osborne who have no love
:24:11. > :24:13.of EU institutions, they are moderately Eurosceptics. They cannot
:24:14. > :24:16.bring themselves to make the positive case and in that absence
:24:17. > :24:23.what they do is go for the Brexit campaign.
:24:24. > :24:26.Anna, I suppose that is a good point, Angus Robertson was pointing
:24:27. > :24:29.out what he's as the benefits of the European Union and perhaps that is
:24:30. > :24:35.things like increasing the rights of workers and perhaps the trimester
:24:36. > :24:40.was not quick to recognise that. Yes, that is not something that
:24:41. > :24:44.plays well with him or his supporters, those are the things
:24:45. > :24:50.about the EU that Paul alluded to, they are uncomfortable with that,
:24:51. > :24:54.they put on their CSI clubs on before the deal with those parts of
:24:55. > :25:02.EU legislation. -- gloves. Looking at the dodgy dossier, the UK
:25:03. > :25:06.Government looked at alternative models outside of the European
:25:07. > :25:11.Union, IDS called at the dodgy dossier, it is getting to the point
:25:12. > :25:14.where Cabinet ministers are arguing with each other, do you think that
:25:15. > :25:18.David Cameron was correct to allow members of his government to
:25:19. > :25:22.campaign for the different sides? I do not see how he could have
:25:23. > :25:26.allowed anything other than that. He would have had problems. They would
:25:27. > :25:30.have resigned if he had tried to put them. David Cameron was clever and
:25:31. > :25:33.putting forward a quick referendum because this was always going to be
:25:34. > :25:36.the case that this could expose what's within the Conservative
:25:37. > :25:41.Party. At least they can contain them for a few months, we are only
:25:42. > :25:45.talking about until June, you could have an after-shock after that,
:25:46. > :25:49.perhaps defections to Ukip, but by the end of this year, this argument
:25:50. > :25:54.will be done and dusted and the Conservative Party will look forward
:25:55. > :25:58.to the next election. ?700 million aid package over three
:25:59. > :26:04.years to help migrants is another big story as they prepare for a
:26:05. > :26:10.likely summer crisis of refugees and migrants coming from over in Turkey.
:26:11. > :26:16.All that money address the problem? Obviously, I hope so, but I think
:26:17. > :26:21.that it will. It shows good will, it shows that it is being treated
:26:22. > :26:28.seriously as an EU wide problem. We cannot as a European Union leave
:26:29. > :26:33.Greece to do with this on their own. -- they have found themselves coping
:26:34. > :26:37.with this huge influx of people that they have neither the infrastructure
:26:38. > :26:43.or the money to deal with. Their economy is in the toilet. So this, I
:26:44. > :26:51.hope, is going to start a process of helping them to cope and of setting
:26:52. > :26:57.up a structure to cope with big serious crisis of this nature.
:26:58. > :27:00.Paul, the EU has often been criticised of being too slow to
:27:01. > :27:03.respond and I think that a lot of politicians you will be concerned as
:27:04. > :27:09.to how the summer will play out with the migrant and refugee crisis.
:27:10. > :27:12.There is an ardent of being too little, too late and that the
:27:13. > :27:18.migration crisis has shown that the EU is not capable of dealing with
:27:19. > :27:21.these sorts of problems. -- there is an argument. I have no doubt that in
:27:22. > :27:28.the referendum campaign migration will be The Big Issue for the Brexit
:27:29. > :27:34.side, it is the clearest issue, they will see that we should handle our
:27:35. > :27:37.borders. It is something that the other side will struggle on, it is a
:27:38. > :27:42.gut and emotional argument. Some people do not want to have it,
:27:43. > :27:47.simply. It will be really close in the month of June.
:27:48. > :27:52.And rock and roll is coming to Cuba, the Rolling Stones will play their
:27:53. > :27:57.first gig the first leg by a Western band in Havana since 1959. President
:27:58. > :28:01.Obama will go to see them as well. What role do you think music as to
:28:02. > :28:05.play in geopolitics, global politics?
:28:06. > :28:11.I think we have come to a pretty sorry state if we need a skinny old
:28:12. > :28:17.dude in a sparkly jacket to do the job of politics for us! You know,
:28:18. > :28:20.the Rolling Stones, the Cubans have waited all of these years for a rock
:28:21. > :28:26.and roll concert and they get a load of pensioners! I am not sure they
:28:27. > :28:29.are getting that good a deal out of it.
:28:30. > :28:33.Paul, quite a transformation for Cuba to have that kind of thing
:28:34. > :28:38.happening, not least of all, the president of the United States are
:28:39. > :28:41.arriving as well on the night! Where we are now is where we should
:28:42. > :28:45.have been 40 years ago. I can understand the logic of the US and
:28:46. > :28:51.the trade embargo but it did not work. But when you fight a Communist
:28:52. > :28:57.country with Western goods and Western music, people will want more
:28:58. > :29:01.of it and give me the Rolling Stones over Communist poetry every day of
:29:02. > :29:06.the week. And David Hasselhoff at the Berlin
:29:07. > :29:12.Wall, did he have an impact? Or Communist, they have all of the
:29:13. > :29:17.violations of communism for all of these years and any have the
:29:18. > :29:23.detritus of popular culture that they do not want any more. They have
:29:24. > :29:26.not had a good deal out of it. Perhaps Cuban culture might be lost
:29:27. > :29:33.as America takes over Western-backed I am not sure what Cuban culture is
:29:34. > :29:38.or I am not also sure what British or Scottish culture is either.
:29:39. > :29:41.You get good and bad books. I am glad that Cuba is finally catching
:29:42. > :29:42.up. Thank you Paul and Anna for joining
:29:43. > :29:44.me this evening. That's it for tonight
:29:45. > :29:48.and for this week. So join her then at
:29:49. > :29:56.the usual time, bye-bye.