11/04/2016

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:00:00. > :00:00.7,000 pupils still with no school to go to tomorrow.

:00:00. > :00:28.So what's gone wrong in Edinburgh, and why?

:00:29. > :00:31.Edinburgh has found faults in at least four of its schools.

:00:32. > :00:36.The Chief Executive tells us he doesn't know why

:00:37. > :00:43.they were signed off by the council's building control.

:00:44. > :00:49.Two we will be making a full enquiry into what has gone wrong here in

:00:50. > :00:51.order to understand it and we admit that.

:00:52. > :00:53.He was called "Dodgy Dave" in Parliament today.

:00:54. > :00:55.So has the Prime Minister been damaged by revelations

:00:56. > :01:06.It couldn't have come at a worse time for senior pupils

:01:07. > :01:13.Construction faults first discovered last week mean that every

:01:14. > :01:15.school in Edinburgh will - again - remain closed tomorrow.

:01:16. > :01:19.Edinburgh City Council has promised all primary and special schools

:01:20. > :01:23.will reopen next week but uncertainty continues for some

:01:24. > :01:28.high school pupils in the middle of exam time.

:01:29. > :01:32.In a moment we'll discuss how this could have happened and the massive

:01:33. > :01:44.Schools are supposed to be a safe place for children. But that was

:01:45. > :01:49.called into question back in January after this primary in Edinburgh

:01:50. > :01:53.suffered serious damage during harsh weather. Today, further work was

:01:54. > :01:57.underway at the school after it emerged that it was just the tip of

:01:58. > :02:02.the iceberg. Safety concerns have forced the closure of a list of

:02:03. > :02:08.Edinburgh schools are affecting thousands of pupils. And for

:02:09. > :02:12.hundreds of families, that means major disruption. Even if they found

:02:13. > :02:15.somewhere else apart from schools to put the children, I think how the

:02:16. > :02:18.logistics of that will work, I think it is really going to be disruptive

:02:19. > :02:23.to learning, I don't think they will learn as much there as they suddenly

:02:24. > :02:29.without school. Quite concerned about it. And, with exams coming up,

:02:30. > :02:32.problems are putting extra pressure on pupils. I think it is important

:02:33. > :02:37.to go back to school so teachers can prompt you to study and so you have

:02:38. > :02:42.time in school to get help, and it is important to go to school. So how

:02:43. > :02:51.could this have happened? The affected schools were built in 2001

:02:52. > :02:56.by Miller construction, which was later can taken over by Gallup first

:02:57. > :03:01.try. Questions are asked about being the method under which the product

:03:02. > :03:06.was taken forward. We have a build-up, a partnership group that

:03:07. > :03:09.manages the schools, and the counsellor that has the response

:03:10. > :03:15.relative well-being of pupils and staff. That raises questions about

:03:16. > :03:18.whether this is the best way to managed the education system. There

:03:19. > :03:21.is the question of whether the schools were built properly in the

:03:22. > :03:25.first place? There should be safeguarded ways to make sure that

:03:26. > :03:32.happens. Those who are contracted to design and build the buildings have

:03:33. > :03:34.to satisfy the building control procedures first and formats, so

:03:35. > :03:39.there are some checks and balances within that process. They ought to

:03:40. > :03:46.have professional engineers involved, of course, several, and

:03:47. > :03:48.structural engineers to validate the structural stability and the safety

:03:49. > :03:54.of the buildings before they are used by the general public. And when

:03:55. > :03:57.it comes to PPP schemes, he added that the incentive to get it right

:03:58. > :04:02.was even greater. Logically you would expect that we would provide

:04:03. > :04:09.an additionally financial incentives to building a proper school, Brett

:04:10. > :04:12.Lee, from the start. Liability and accountability still lies with the

:04:13. > :04:17.organisation that built these buildings in the first place. Today,

:04:18. > :04:24.the boss of Edinburgh Council tries to offer an initial excavation.

:04:25. > :04:28.These faults are internal faults, so they would sometimes pass visual

:04:29. > :04:32.inspection and they were OK, and there have been standing for ten, 15

:04:33. > :04:39.years in most cases. However we have found faults. Edinburgh Council is

:04:40. > :04:45.aiming to ensure primary and special school pupils are back in school by

:04:46. > :04:48.next Monday. But how far might this problem go's right now, every

:04:49. > :04:53.council in Scotland is involved in carrying out surveys of schools

:04:54. > :04:55.which could also be affected. Andrew Black there.

:04:56. > :04:57.Just before we came on air, from Edinburgh I spoke

:04:58. > :04:59.to the Chief Executive of Edinburgh City Council

:05:00. > :05:02.who you saw at the end of that report, Andrew Kerr.

:05:03. > :05:04.And a local parent and Chair of the Royal High Schools parent

:05:05. > :05:08.And just for clarity, in his day job Luke works for the BBC.

:05:09. > :05:15.Good evening to you both. Andrew Kerr, you are blaming shoddy

:05:16. > :05:19.workmanship on behalf of the contractor, but you can't really

:05:20. > :05:23.keep this problem at arms length can you? How did the councils building

:05:24. > :05:29.control inspectors missed the serious faults? Well, we aren't

:05:30. > :05:33.attempting to keep this at arms length, but we are actually saying

:05:34. > :05:37.is that the most important thing is first of all we look after the

:05:38. > :05:42.health and safety of our pupils, and secondly that we get them back into

:05:43. > :05:49.school as quickly as possible. And then a full investigation can be

:05:50. > :05:54.undertaken as to what happened, as long ago as ten or 15 years. The

:05:55. > :05:57.priority is however the peoples, making sure they can set their

:05:58. > :06:01.exams, but they can be educated and that they are safe. People will want

:06:02. > :06:04.to try and understand this though because it raises serious questions

:06:05. > :06:11.about how public projects are actually brought to actuality. Hammy

:06:12. > :06:16.fault and families also be found? Well, we have studied four or five

:06:17. > :06:21.schools we have found similar faults in each of those schools, so what we

:06:22. > :06:27.are making sure we do is fully survey all schools. To make sure

:06:28. > :06:31.that we discover any faults that are there in the building construction,

:06:32. > :06:37.and that we can remediate them and make them safe for the job and go

:06:38. > :06:44.back in. Four or five schools so far. Why then were the buildings

:06:45. > :06:48.ever signed off? Well, as I have explained, I don't know the answer

:06:49. > :06:52.just yet, but what I do know is that we are doing everything we can to

:06:53. > :06:59.swiftly and accurately mediate the problems. What would be the normal

:07:00. > :07:03.process, then, what would you expect the building control inspectors

:07:04. > :07:06.involvement to be question mark throughout the project? There would

:07:07. > :07:10.be some expectation building control to be involved in schools such as

:07:11. > :07:14.this. However, the rules and regulations have changed in the last

:07:15. > :07:18.ten, 15 years, so it may be that what we do now is not exactly the

:07:19. > :07:21.same as what was done ten or 15 years ago, and we have to

:07:22. > :07:25.investigate that properly to ensure that we get the right answers before

:07:26. > :07:29.we make any jumps to conclusions. Luke, you are a parent one of the

:07:30. > :07:37.schools affected. You reassured by that? I think that the council are

:07:38. > :07:40.trying to do the right thing here, but I know that parents across the

:07:41. > :07:45.scarcity will be raising lots of questions about how the council got

:07:46. > :07:47.is offered to be situated in the first case, particularly because

:07:48. > :07:51.many of these goods have been so long ago. We have to us what these

:07:52. > :07:57.problems were detected earlier. What about in the schools were built?

:07:58. > :08:02.What about these inspections that Andrew Kerr carried out was the

:08:03. > :08:08.schools were actually operating? Our regular inspections are carried out

:08:09. > :08:14.every year, and we try and ensure that where it is possible we can

:08:15. > :08:18.pick up any faults as possible, but a number of the faults that we are

:08:19. > :08:22.discovering now are internal to walls, and internal to the fabric of

:08:23. > :08:26.the building, so they wouldn't be picked up by visual inspection.

:08:27. > :08:32.Look, how are your children affected by this? It is obviously exam time,

:08:33. > :08:39.a difficult time it takes a leap for older children. That is right,

:08:40. > :08:43.Shelley. As children are praying for higher level exams, and from the end

:08:44. > :08:46.of the Easter holiday, to the point where they go on study leave for the

:08:47. > :08:50.exams, they have 12 and based teaching, and study time remaining

:08:51. > :08:55.in school, and obviously at least of those two days ago at least two of

:08:56. > :08:59.those days have now gone, so that is ten and a half, and they had to get

:09:00. > :09:02.finished the course, said there was a number of centres where senior

:09:03. > :09:09.pupils haven't yet finished, they haven't been taught all of the stuff

:09:10. > :09:15.that could come about unit assessments, as they call them,

:09:16. > :09:18.number four being allowed to sit the exams can and some of them haven't

:09:19. > :09:22.been carried out yet. People this week have also been expecting to do

:09:23. > :09:28.actual assessable work for the part of their exams. Assessments in

:09:29. > :09:31.German and French and Spanish, other modern languages, they won't be able

:09:32. > :09:40.to take praise because the schools are shut, but those battles take

:09:41. > :09:45.account for a third of that mark. Being ready to set those exams, the

:09:46. > :09:48.run-in has been quite disrupted, and we welcome getting the pupils back

:09:49. > :09:52.in on Wednesday, for most schools heavily that will be the case, but

:09:53. > :09:56.only half the schools will be open, and a number of the battle areas of

:09:57. > :09:59.the school will be off-limits because they are in the new part as

:10:00. > :10:02.opposed to the old part of our building. What reassurances can you

:10:03. > :10:10.give them Andrew Kerr, to particularly to parents of the more

:10:11. > :10:15.senior schoolchildren? I have much sympathy with the concerns

:10:16. > :10:20.expressed. I am a father myself of a 14-year-old and I and perfectly well

:10:21. > :10:25.aware of the anxiety preceding exams. What we are trying to do as I

:10:26. > :10:29.have pointed out is get people back into school as quickly as possible,

:10:30. > :10:32.and certainly for the pupils of Fernhill, Drummond, and Royal high

:10:33. > :10:36.we should have them back into school on Wednesday. For the pupils of the

:10:37. > :10:40.other schools, we should help them back into alternate accommodation by

:10:41. > :10:44.the end of the week at the very latest. We are prioritising these

:10:45. > :10:49.pupils before any others alongside those with special measures for

:10:50. > :10:55.obvious reasons. What we have been lucky enough to be able to do is we

:10:56. > :11:00.are lucky enough to be able to put some measures in place that allow

:11:01. > :11:02.us, we think, subject to final health and safety measures, to put

:11:03. > :11:06.some of our primary school pupils back into school on Wednesday,

:11:07. > :11:15.starting on Wednesday, and the whole of the primary school card by

:11:16. > :11:19.Monday. So we are moving as quickly as we can. We found out the problem

:11:20. > :11:23.on Friday afternoon. We have worked all weekend, and a number of teams

:11:24. > :11:27.of engineers are checking schools right now. Health and serve the

:11:28. > :11:33.people are checking the schools, and both teachers and head teachers are

:11:34. > :11:38.working all hours to try and make sure that we get pupils back in as

:11:39. > :11:41.soon as we can. Very briefly, would you support calls for a full enquiry

:11:42. > :11:46.into what is wrong here? What I can say is that we will be making a full

:11:47. > :11:50.enquiry as to what has gone on here because we are to understand it, and

:11:51. > :11:54.we have to admit that. However, we don't think it is the priority right

:11:55. > :11:57.now, we think the priority is the safety of the peoples and making

:11:58. > :12:01.sure that they can do their exams, making sure they can be educated,

:12:02. > :12:09.and that is of a major concern right now. Luke, very briefly? I think

:12:10. > :12:13.parents would surly support calls for an enquiry. Not just in the

:12:14. > :12:18.schools, but a range of other buildings passed by contractors in

:12:19. > :12:23.Edinburgh into the school estate very quickly, concerns going on for

:12:24. > :12:27.years, parents would look forward to the chance to the building in

:12:28. > :12:29.Edinburgh and what it is doing for the children of the future.

:12:30. > :12:31.Now, from financial secrecy to tax transparency.

:12:32. > :12:33.What a difference a few days can make.

:12:34. > :12:35.When the Prime Minister published details from his tax

:12:36. > :12:37.return at the weekend he called it "unprecedented".

:12:38. > :12:40.Now senior politicians are falling over themselves to publish theirs.

:12:41. > :12:43.All the party leaders in Scotland, George Osborne, Boris Johnson

:12:44. > :12:51.and - slightly later than planned -

:12:52. > :12:55.Earlier today David Cameron appeared before MPs and defended his own

:12:56. > :12:56.financial arrangements and his government's record

:12:57. > :13:07.The speaker, I accept all of the criticisms for not responding more

:13:08. > :13:12.quickly to these issues last week. But as I have said I was angry about

:13:13. > :13:15.it when my father's memory was being produced. I know he was a

:13:16. > :13:19.hard-working man and a wonderful dad, and I'm proud of everything he

:13:20. > :13:22.did to build a business and provide for his family. Mr Speaker, this is

:13:23. > :13:28.a government and this should be a country that believes in aspiration

:13:29. > :13:32.and wealth creation. So we should defend the right of every British

:13:33. > :13:37.citizen to make money lawfully. Aspiration and wealth creation are

:13:38. > :13:40.not somehow dirty words. They are the key engines of growth and

:13:41. > :13:44.prosperity in our country and we must always support those who want

:13:45. > :13:48.to own shares and make investments to support their families. I

:13:49. > :13:53.suggest, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister's record particularly over

:13:54. > :13:58.the past week shows the public no longer has trust in him to do with

:13:59. > :14:04.these matters. Does he realise why people are so angry? Does he realise

:14:05. > :14:09.that members opposite don't realise why people are so angry? We have

:14:10. > :14:14.gone through six years, six years of crushing austerity. Families lining

:14:15. > :14:22.up at food banks to feed their children. Disabled people losing

:14:23. > :14:27.their benefits. Elderly care cut and slashed. Living standards going

:14:28. > :14:31.down. Much of this could have been avoided if our country hadn't been

:14:32. > :14:34.ripped off by the super-rich refusing to pay their taxes.

:14:35. > :14:36.From our Westminster studio, I 'm joined by Isabel Hardman

:14:37. > :14:42.from The Spectator and the Political Commentator - James Cusick.

:14:43. > :14:52.Good evening to both of you. Fiery stuff, there, James, and the promise

:14:53. > :14:57.to very much on the offensive. Has he done enough to shut this down? I

:14:58. > :15:01.think it was an open goal for Jeremy Corbyn. It was by this time the

:15:02. > :15:04.seventh exhalation of what had happened by the Prime Minister, and

:15:05. > :15:09.the strategy shouldn't have been what the Prime Minister was doing,

:15:10. > :15:13.but one what excuses the Prime Minister was offering. As you just

:15:14. > :15:17.heard Jeremy Corbyn went off on almost a massive class war rant,

:15:18. > :15:22.bringing in everything from the rich, poor, austerity, house and has

:15:23. > :15:25.not, the Tory party debated and the Ritz party, the Labour Party at the

:15:26. > :15:29.party of justice, and I think at the end of the day to be honest the

:15:30. > :15:32.opportunity I think the week in the Prime Minister that didn't happen,

:15:33. > :15:39.and I think it was an open goal and a mistake.

:15:40. > :15:48.An own goal? If the objective was to weaken the Prime Minister and expose

:15:49. > :15:54.what he was doing. Then at the end of that, I think there were seven

:15:55. > :15:57.points that Jeremy Corbyn made and the Prime Minister answered them all

:15:58. > :16:01.and the debate afterwards disappeared and I have no idea how

:16:02. > :16:08.effective the opposition is supposed to be but whoever was advising

:16:09. > :16:12.Jeremy Corbyn on how you take down someone, the strategy is weak and at

:16:13. > :16:19.times pathetic and if that is all there is, the Prime Minister does

:16:20. > :16:22.not need to worry. What do you think about the choice of words from the

:16:23. > :16:29.Prime Minister, talking about wealth creation not been dirty words? He

:16:30. > :16:35.tried to turn the debate on something that is uncomfortable for

:16:36. > :16:39.the Labour Party which is about its approach to wealth creation and what

:16:40. > :16:43.parents want to do about their wealth when they die. This has been

:16:44. > :16:48.a difficult few weeks for the Conservatives and they have not

:16:49. > :16:51.handled it well. I thought it was striking that Parliament which is a

:16:52. > :16:58.place where ministers face pressure and heat and where rows can become

:16:59. > :17:02.serious, it was a place where the row calmed down and David Cameron

:17:03. > :17:07.emerge from it having at least stopped it from going further which

:17:08. > :17:13.is not an achievement on the part of Jeremy Corbyn at all. There was a

:17:14. > :17:18.bit of a class war going on, not just by Jeremy Corbyn, we heard a

:17:19. > :17:22.Tory MP talk about whether we want a Parliament of under achievers with

:17:23. > :17:30.this transparency, how do you think that talk goes down with voters? You

:17:31. > :17:34.are probably too young to remember the 1992 election but I remember

:17:35. > :17:42.John Smith produced a budget where he talked about raising income tax

:17:43. > :17:45.to 50p and John Smith was widely credited with being one of the

:17:46. > :17:49.reasons why it Labour lost. Aspiration is a key point of any

:17:50. > :17:56.political strategy, the Labour Party have to figure out a way of

:17:57. > :18:03.appealing to core supporters, it has to go wider and if Jeremy Corbyn is

:18:04. > :18:09.only a mean his criticism at Tory votes, middle-class votes then the

:18:10. > :18:14.Labour Party have nowhere to go. If they are talking about limiting

:18:15. > :18:18.inheritance tax, the Labour Party are missing that common ground and

:18:19. > :18:23.if that is all Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party have over the next

:18:24. > :18:27.couple of years, then I am struggling to think what is the

:18:28. > :18:32.point. They have to do more than just appealed to core support and

:18:33. > :18:38.that is who Jeremy Corbyn was talking to. It is not enough. What

:18:39. > :18:42.are Tory backbenchers making of this? They are relieved that the

:18:43. > :18:44.Prime Minister cut off the idea of them having to publish their tax

:18:45. > :19:06.returns. He said the publication should be

:19:07. > :19:08.limited to the leaders of the main parties and Chancellor and Shadow

:19:09. > :19:10.Chancellor. That is something that Conservative MPs were agitated

:19:11. > :19:12.about. The only unhelpful question came from Alan Duncan. He ended up

:19:13. > :19:14.making snide comments at about underachievers which did not help

:19:15. > :19:18.the Conservatives. It was not as if they had piled into the chamber to

:19:19. > :19:24.beat up David Cameron verbally. A lot of them are angry with him about

:19:25. > :19:31.the European referendum campaign. Can we expect more revelations? I

:19:32. > :19:36.think we can. I have spoken to some investigated journalists in Germany

:19:37. > :19:40.about it. They got the documents and one of them said, previous

:19:41. > :19:44.generations of politicians in London, even down to ministers,

:19:45. > :19:50.should be wary that there is plenty more stuff out there. This could be

:19:51. > :19:56.chapter one and I am looking to further chapters coming up as soon

:19:57. > :19:58.as possible. We will see what the future holds. Thank you.

:19:59. > :20:00.Education was in the spotlight tonight on the Holyrood campaign

:20:01. > :20:03.trail, as the main parties made their case to the

:20:04. > :20:06.Nicola Sturgeon announced a future SNP Government would seek

:20:07. > :20:07.to "equalise" financial support for students

:20:08. > :20:23.Strathclyde University in Glasgow for the leaders, a place to learn

:20:24. > :20:26.more about what the party think about education. The event was

:20:27. > :20:33.organised by the National Union about education. The event was

:20:34. > :20:39.priorities ahead of May the 5th. Support first you'd is in college,

:20:40. > :20:44.students and later stages and better mental health provision. We are

:20:45. > :20:49.expecting 400 students to come and hear what they have to say and what

:20:50. > :20:54.their plans are for education. Four of the main parties and their

:20:55. > :21:03.leaders, the Conservatives opted for Adam Tomkins, a professor at Glasgow

:21:04. > :21:04.university. A number of different issues are under discussion from

:21:05. > :22:55.mental health to gender issues are under discussion from

:22:56. > :23:00.we would reinstate bursaries back to the 2012 level and said that we

:23:01. > :23:03.would give the right to student support for further education

:23:04. > :23:10.students. At the moment, when the bursary part runs out, that is it.

:23:11. > :23:15.We would make sure the system guaranteed that for the full

:23:16. > :23:19.academic year. A pledge from Nicola Sturgeon. She said she would look at

:23:20. > :23:27.offering more help to students in further education. Access to student

:23:28. > :23:30.support should be based on your particular circumstances as a

:23:31. > :23:35.student and I think we should be looking at having an equaliser

:23:36. > :23:39.system of student support across further education and higher

:23:40. > :23:43.education so that it is you and your circumstances that drives the level

:23:44. > :23:44.of support not where you choose to study. Answers to more questions in

:23:45. > :23:46.the weeks to come. And with me this evening to talk

:23:47. > :23:49.about some of the day's news - is the journalist -

:23:50. > :24:02.Peter Geoghagan and from Oxfam UK - Welcome to both of you. Let us

:24:03. > :24:06.return to the Prime Minister 's troubles over tax, Dennis Skinner

:24:07. > :24:13.was kicked out of the Commons Forex pressing his view of David Cameron.

:24:14. > :24:23.This man has done more to divide this -- divide this nation than

:24:24. > :24:31.anyone else! Eyes still refer to him as dodgy days! Do what you like! Is

:24:32. > :24:37.that a name that you think we'll stick as a result of this whole

:24:38. > :24:42.affair, Dodgy Dave? He will always call him Dodgy Dave. He has released

:24:43. > :24:48.his tax returns, so has George Osborne and it is supposed to be OK,

:24:49. > :24:53.but you will not get all that much from those tax returns and it suits

:24:54. > :24:59.the Prime Minister, suits his narrative, I think for the Prime

:25:00. > :25:04.Minister, the question is not going to go away in terms of what we do

:25:05. > :25:09.about tax. None of these things will come up in a tax return. His trust

:25:10. > :25:13.ownership, none of that will come up, this will not make the issue go

:25:14. > :25:19.away and it will not make a huge difference if the Leader of the

:25:20. > :25:23.Opposition and the Shadow Chancellor all publish their tax returns. It

:25:24. > :25:30.will not make much of a difference. Is it time for a total transparency

:25:31. > :25:33.from all MPs? It is not just about the individuals, we need

:25:34. > :25:38.transparency from countries and companies and I agree with Peter,

:25:39. > :25:42.there is a risk this can become to individualised and it takes are gaze

:25:43. > :25:47.away from these massive systemic problems, it is not just a case of

:25:48. > :25:52.the few bad apples, it is a whole apple cart that is broken. There is

:25:53. > :25:56.lots the Prime Minister can do, he will host an anti-corruption Summit

:25:57. > :26:04.and he will show the leadership he can provide and get his hands on

:26:05. > :26:07.this issue and turn his attention to the British Virgin Islands, lab --

:26:08. > :26:15.most of the Company is on the Panama papers are registered there. It is

:26:16. > :26:20.very risky if we individualise this. We saw all the Scottish party

:26:21. > :26:24.leaders publish their tax returns without any hesitation, what does

:26:25. > :26:33.that say about them? There was not that much interest. If you Google

:26:34. > :26:40.them, you will see what they get paid. If you look at Boris Johnson,

:26:41. > :26:44.he released his, he is taking in a quarter of ?1 million a year from

:26:45. > :26:49.the Daily Telegraph, Kezia Dugdale 's columns is a fraction of that. Is

:26:50. > :26:55.a noble not burn as burn as much as someone like Boris Johnson? It is

:26:56. > :27:00.interesting. Some voters feel, Donald Trump is saying I cannot be

:27:01. > :27:04.bought because I earn more than anyone, for some there is an

:27:05. > :27:09.element, but by looking at what someone is declaring, we are not

:27:10. > :27:16.really seeing... If someone was corrupt, they will not put it in

:27:17. > :27:21.their returns. The kind of corruption that involves giving jobs

:27:22. > :27:26.to friends, involves more systemic corruption, that is not on a tax

:27:27. > :27:31.return. We could get fixated on what is on what line and we will comb

:27:32. > :27:38.over the tax returns and see how many thousands did he get back from

:27:39. > :27:42.shareholdings, David Cameron had around 140,000 in shareholdings that

:27:43. > :27:47.he's sold in 2010. We will see that coming out, but I think we are on

:27:48. > :27:56.the same hymn sheet, the worry is that they will focus on the issue

:27:57. > :28:09.and forget the rest. I would like to move on, to Barack Obama. This is

:28:10. > :28:15.what he said to the Fox news anchor. Biggest achievement. Saving the

:28:16. > :28:26.economy. Worst mistake. Probably failing to plan for the day after,

:28:27. > :28:31.what I think was the right thing to do in intervening in Libya. Was that

:28:32. > :28:36.a fairer self-assessment? I think it is widely accepted that there was

:28:37. > :28:41.not enough planning for a Libya and the whole region has become so

:28:42. > :28:44.destabilised, we saw the situation in Yemen and Syria and the

:28:45. > :28:49.consequent humanitarian crisis with the flood of refugees moving out

:28:50. > :28:53.because the situation there is so desperate. I think that is a fair

:28:54. > :28:59.shout. Let us look at the situation he came into. He came into office as

:29:00. > :29:10.the global financial crisis started, he is now facing a Congress that is

:29:11. > :29:13.held and tied up by the Republicans and he has been able to get a few

:29:14. > :29:15.things through, particularly things like putting planet before people

:29:16. > :29:20.with the keystone or oil pipeline. His take on gay rights, let us not

:29:21. > :29:26.undermine the significance of the first black President. Do you think

:29:27. > :29:29.he has fulfilled expectations? Expectations were sky high, it was

:29:30. > :29:32.always going to be difficult to fulfil and it will be a long time

:29:33. > :29:37.before he can see what his legacy is. It will depend what happens in

:29:38. > :29:41.November, whether it is Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump.

:29:42. > :29:46.I'm back with a special hour-long election debate on health

:29:47. > :29:49.A studio audience will get the chance to grill senior

:29:50. > :29:52.politicians so please do join us if you can.