:00:00. > :00:00.It's shaping up to be the tax and spend election.
:00:00. > :00:24.So whose plans would the raise the most cash?
:00:25. > :00:31.A new league table suggests NONE of the parties' income tax plans
:00:32. > :00:35.will plug the spending gap forecast for Scotland.
:00:36. > :00:38.I'll be asking Lord Puttnam if Public Service Broadcasting
:00:39. > :00:44.And the former boss of MI5, Dame Stella Rimington,
:00:45. > :00:52.on the biggest danger faced by the UK.
:00:53. > :00:58.I think I'll register to the national security which is after all
:00:59. > :01:02.what the intelligence and services are there to deal with, must come I
:01:03. > :01:05.think from the sort of terrorism that is coming out of the Middle
:01:06. > :01:07.East at the moment, and it is a potentially large threat and it is
:01:08. > :01:13.an immediate threat. Already in this election campaign
:01:14. > :01:16.we've heard a lot about how much extra tax the parties might ask
:01:17. > :01:20.you to pay if they form the next But just how much additional cash
:01:21. > :01:26.might their plans raise? The left-of-centre think-tank
:01:27. > :01:30.the IPPR has done the sums Scottish Labour would raise
:01:31. > :01:35.the most, followed by the Greens, the Lib Dems and the SNP,
:01:36. > :01:38.with the Conservatives, Here's our political
:01:39. > :01:52.correspondent Andrew Kerr. It claims to be Labour who would
:01:53. > :01:58.gather in the most revenue in the next electoral cycle. Powering round
:01:59. > :02:04.the Hydro Reservoir, the IPPR said the parties plan to levy an extra
:02:05. > :02:08.penny on income tax and raise the top rates to 50% means they will
:02:09. > :02:13.build up the biggest reservoir of cash. This could raise extra
:02:14. > :02:18.billions of pounds by 2021. Above what the UK Government plans to
:02:19. > :02:22.bring in. It could be 1.1 billion this no additional revenue is read
:02:23. > :02:29.to the 50% rate. We have a very soon clear sense from the IPPR today that
:02:30. > :02:32.only Labour plan will stop the cuts. By using the tax powers of the
:02:33. > :02:39.parliament we could use that money to stop any further cuts to tax
:02:40. > :02:44.services, and the report highlights that our competitors would raise the
:02:45. > :02:47.revenue to stop the cuts. Scotland were education system is falling
:02:48. > :02:53.behind, say the Liberal Democrats. They are offering a lifeline of ?475
:02:54. > :02:58.million. Paid for by a penny increase in the basic, higher and
:02:59. > :03:03.additional rate of income tax will stop in total, the IPPR estimate,
:03:04. > :03:07.this will bring in an extra ?715 million. They have identified that
:03:08. > :03:13.the Liberal Democrats will invest in education, with a ?475 million
:03:14. > :03:16.investment, to get Scottish education back to the best in the
:03:17. > :03:22.world again. It contrasts starkly with the Conservative plans, a ?1.5
:03:23. > :03:33.billion tax rate for the wealthiest in society. Meanwhile, the SNP 's
:03:34. > :03:37.claim to have the fiercest brands. They have not planned to raise the
:03:38. > :03:43.higher rate tax rate, but it will rise with inflation. All in all, the
:03:44. > :03:48.IPPR says this means the party rakes in an additional ?300 million in
:03:49. > :03:52.revenue. The party says the plans are carefully thought out. They
:03:53. > :03:58.don't transfer the burden of the Tory austerity to the local
:03:59. > :04:02.escapade. We want to protect the impounded for the lowest paid,
:04:03. > :04:06.Labour wants to put taxes up for people earning under ?20,000 of our
:04:07. > :04:10.proposals will allow us to protect public services but do so in a way
:04:11. > :04:15.that doesn't penalise the lowest earning people in our society. Of
:04:16. > :04:17.the main parties, one has a very different Prosser position on tax.
:04:18. > :04:24.The Conservatives think less is more. They value entrepreneurship
:04:25. > :04:28.and aspiration. That was a position made very clear here in Glasgow
:04:29. > :04:33.today, as they launch their manifesto. Marching side by side
:04:34. > :04:38.with George Osborne and not promising any tax cuts, means the
:04:39. > :04:42.Conservatives plans result in zero extra revenue at being raised. Let's
:04:43. > :04:46.grow our tax base, let's have the jobs and opportunities that we need
:04:47. > :04:49.in Scotland to grow the economy, and bring in more money that way. We
:04:50. > :04:53.want to put forward a really strong campaign at this election to say we
:04:54. > :04:56.don't want to be the highest tax party in the UK, we don't want the
:04:57. > :05:01.government to reach in the pockets of working men and women and take
:05:02. > :05:03.more money, and harmed the Scottish economy collapsed by making us the
:05:04. > :05:06.most uncompetitive place to do business in the whole of the UK. For
:05:07. > :05:10.those who wish to levy further taxes, there could be a word of
:05:11. > :05:16.warning. What difference will that money actually make? But for all the
:05:17. > :05:21.parties, the IPPR point out that by 2020 there will be a ?2 billion
:05:22. > :05:23.spending gap for the next Scottish Government. Perhaps more
:05:24. > :05:29.importantly, where we'll the cuts fall? -- where will the cuts fall?
:05:30. > :05:32.And with me to discuss these latest figures is
:05:33. > :05:33.the economic commentator Alf Young,
:05:34. > :05:37.and the political commentator Gerry Hassan.
:05:38. > :06:00.Jerry, are paying a lot of attention to
:06:01. > :06:05.nuance figures. We have the make the assumption that those will inform
:06:06. > :06:10.them. There is a shift hereabouts talking about facts, we are talking
:06:11. > :06:14.not about who wins and who loses stop there is an issue about the
:06:15. > :06:17.thinness of the policy of all parties here. We are talking about
:06:18. > :06:20.income tax only, that's just one bit. That is the only bidder
:06:21. > :06:20.income tax only, that's just one adversity. We are trying to discuss
:06:21. > :08:12.something we were thing that one can have clear from
:08:13. > :08:15.these proposals is that there may be an appetite amongst voters to pay
:08:16. > :08:19.more if it is invested in public services Jamaat you can say yes it
:08:20. > :08:23.with a caveat because voters always like the idea of somebody else
:08:24. > :08:27.playing taxes. The voters like the idea of a high rate of tax. That is
:08:28. > :08:31.based on the assumption that they won't pay it. With that fact, we
:08:32. > :08:38.have that differentiation of the spectrum from Tory to Labour, trying
:08:39. > :08:41.to mine the myth, the mythology of centre-left, redistributed Scotland.
:08:42. > :08:46.There was a Labour message in there which might be too late, and there
:08:47. > :08:50.was a distinct story message, not raising taxes, not mitigating the
:08:51. > :08:55.cuts, also not been responsible for the cuts. That is a distinct message
:08:56. > :08:59.saying that the party is looking forward to be a powerful opposition.
:09:00. > :09:04.There is also an opinion poll evidence from the BBC but like poll
:09:05. > :09:07.last week suggesting strong support in Scotland that income tax should
:09:08. > :09:17.remain the same as it is in England. So, do you think the mere SNP may be
:09:18. > :09:23.right to be wary of this issue's? When you get to the kind of top end
:09:24. > :09:29.up paying 20% tax, there is a little band there of about ?4000 where
:09:30. > :09:34.because they will only raise the threshold by inflation, whereas
:09:35. > :09:38.George Osborne, having kept the threshold down so that more and more
:09:39. > :09:41.people paid 40%, is now recanting and going in the opposite direction,
:09:42. > :09:45.and sticking it up to 51,000th. There will be a little gap there. A
:09:46. > :09:52.lot of people in reasonably highly played jobs in the public sector can
:09:53. > :09:55.in the health service, people in industry too, getting on in their
:09:56. > :10:01.careers, will be getting to the stage of thinking well, if I am
:10:02. > :10:04.going to start paying that 40% earlier, ?4000 earlier here than I
:10:05. > :10:07.would be paying it if I were south of the border, there will be a
:10:08. > :10:10.behavioural impact of that, people saying well I want to be a teacher
:10:11. > :10:14.would it be better being its south of the border button marked so that
:10:15. > :10:19.I didn't have to pay that additional tax earlier on. That is quite apart
:10:20. > :10:23.from the black hole that you have been talking about, the lack of
:10:24. > :10:26.honesty from spending cuts. Do you think maybe the discourse would be
:10:27. > :10:31.different if it didn't seem like a foregone conclusion about who will
:10:32. > :10:35.win this election? No, because then there would be something to play
:10:36. > :10:40.for, and there is an issue of risk aversion. The assumed SNP majority
:10:41. > :10:43.of the last election, and if you take last week's debate on this
:10:44. > :10:51.programme, and the general campaign as much as it is, why, for instance
:10:52. > :10:59.are the Greens and you get knots trying to call other parties out on
:11:00. > :11:03.this? -- Ukip. It will only lead to disillusionment after the vote, and
:11:04. > :11:07.anger, because there will be huge cuts. There is no scenario planning
:11:08. > :11:10.going on in government even at the highest levels, so people will be
:11:11. > :11:13.annoyed. I'm afraid we're out of time there, we must leave it.
:11:14. > :11:14.Senior figures from the Scottish media world
:11:15. > :11:17.were gathered in Edinburgh earlier to give evidence to an inquiry
:11:18. > :11:19.into the future for public service broadcasting.
:11:20. > :11:21.The inquiry is chaired by the Oscar winning film-maker
:11:22. > :11:24.Lord David Puttnam, who we'll hear from in a moment.
:11:25. > :11:26.Inevitably, one of the central themes of the evening
:11:27. > :11:29.was whether Scotland should be getting a better deal
:11:30. > :11:36.from this particular public service broadcaster.
:11:37. > :11:46.Because the domestic agenda has so much come from Holyrood here, it is
:11:47. > :11:52.ironic that the BBC News services have accommodated that. We have the
:11:53. > :11:57.same structure of news on television in 1999. The BBC have not met the
:11:58. > :12:04.integrated demand for Scottish broadcasting. There has been a lack
:12:05. > :12:08.of editing from a Scottish perspective. John M, former
:12:09. > :12:09.controller of BBC Scotland. Lord Puttnam came
:12:10. > :12:16.into our Edinburgh studio. Lord Puttnam, there has been some
:12:17. > :12:20.criticism that it has taken your enquiry quite a while to come north
:12:21. > :12:23.of the border. Were you worried about the reception you might
:12:24. > :12:27.receive tonight? Is reception in terms of the amount of time it as
:12:28. > :12:32.they can. Truth is it has still not been delivered, and to Sheffield in
:12:33. > :12:35.a couple of weeks' time. Everything has been geographically as and when
:12:36. > :12:40.we have been able to put it together. I was less concerned about
:12:41. > :12:44.what the reaction would be, but what thrilled me was how well moderated
:12:45. > :12:49.and sensible the discussion was. How different where the concerns
:12:50. > :12:53.expressed here to concerns expressed elsewhere in the UK about public
:12:54. > :12:58.broadcasting? I think the big difference for me, my takeaway, is
:12:59. > :13:01.that there are very litigious was concerned about governments. What
:13:02. > :13:05.will be the relationship between the new unitary body, which will be I am
:13:06. > :13:10.absolutely convinced as a result of this. What will be the relationship
:13:11. > :13:13.between that unitary board and people who wish the BBC to be more
:13:14. > :13:16.accountable to what happens in Scotland, the weather programming is
:13:17. > :13:21.done in Scotland and money is spent there, what will be the relationship
:13:22. > :13:28.between that board and Scotland? Just expand that for our viewers? It
:13:29. > :13:34.is the same as happens in Channel 4. A board of 12 people, in memory, a
:13:35. > :13:37.board like any other. It doesn't go through the convolutions of
:13:38. > :13:43.pretending to be government who are then answerable to a trust and what
:13:44. > :13:46.else. It is a proper board, appointed, and obviously the issue
:13:47. > :13:50.of appointments is not going to be insignificant, but they should be
:13:51. > :13:54.appointed by a transparent, hopefully accountable process, that
:13:55. > :13:55.will make decisions as a board about the BBC, regarding the future of the
:13:56. > :14:03.BBC. What to make of the Culture
:14:04. > :14:09.Secretary's suggestion that he should appoint the new board? I
:14:10. > :14:16.think it is probably impossible to head off the fact that the chairman
:14:17. > :14:20.and the deputy chairman will be appointed by some Parliamentary
:14:21. > :14:25.process. One of the breakthroughs is that, I think this has been agreed,
:14:26. > :14:28.they will be confirmed in their appointment by the DCMS select
:14:29. > :14:32.committee. That is much more of an American system, it is good news.
:14:33. > :14:37.Much more serious is the appointment of the rest of the board, the other
:14:38. > :14:40.six or seven people. How independent, how arms length of
:14:41. > :14:45.government will that be? That is going to be a very tough and hard
:14:46. > :14:50.fought battle. Are you worried that independence and trust may be
:14:51. > :14:54.compromised? Talking to the guys the other day about exactly this, in
:14:55. > :14:59.days of yore, when I was in the frame for this sort of job, the type
:15:00. > :15:03.of Secretary of State you are dealing with were very trusted
:15:04. > :15:07.people, even when they were political opponents, good man, and
:15:08. > :15:11.you knew exactly that impartiality was at the core of what they did. We
:15:12. > :15:16.do not live in that world anymore, there is mistrust, people suspect
:15:17. > :15:19.that there is an angle on appointments, someone has been
:15:20. > :15:24.appointed to pursue a particular agenda. The Secretary of State now
:15:25. > :15:28.has a tougher job to justify changes and claim they are utterly
:15:29. > :15:32.transparent and nothing to do with the Government attempting to impose
:15:33. > :15:35.its views on the public broadcaster, that is much more difficult, and
:15:36. > :15:38.therefore the requirement of transparency becomes much greater.
:15:39. > :15:43.What was the view coming across to you tonight about how Scotland
:15:44. > :15:49.should be represented? I think there was a general sense that in the past
:15:50. > :15:55.there has been disappointment, a lack of transparency, that London
:15:56. > :15:59.was running things, that the BBC, by its very definition, was London
:16:00. > :16:04.centric, and that Scottish affairs, Scottish politics were not being
:16:05. > :16:08.treated as properly and sensibly and fairly as the Scottish people have
:16:09. > :16:12.every right to deserve. Now, interestingly, I know Tony Hall very
:16:13. > :16:15.well. I don't think, as a Director-General, that he has any of
:16:16. > :16:22.the neuroses that might have been shared about what that meant for the
:16:23. > :16:25.future of the BBC. And he is a listening Director-General, I am
:16:26. > :16:29.convinced of that, and I am certain that if there is sufficient debate
:16:30. > :16:32.and sufficient discussion, he will come up with a resolution that will
:16:33. > :16:38.not make everyone happy but will satisfy enough people. I am sure the
:16:39. > :16:41.Scottish six came up once or twice denied in the course of your
:16:42. > :16:45.discussions, when you look at how people are viewing content these
:16:46. > :16:49.days, if it seems like an old-fashioned idea that we are
:16:50. > :16:55.debating, you know, an hour-long programme going out at a specific
:16:56. > :16:58.time of night? I think, under certain circumstances, you could say
:16:59. > :17:03.that, but unfortunately the nature and complexity of the world, things
:17:04. > :17:07.like Brexit, all the things we are being forced to look at, climate
:17:08. > :17:11.change is a big one for me, and unless you have got programmes which
:17:12. > :17:16.to reflect people's concerns, which are as objective as possible, which
:17:17. > :17:19.are evidence based, unless you have a broadcasting system that you can
:17:20. > :17:24.absolutely rely on what you are listening to is as truthful as it
:17:25. > :17:30.can be, then I think is a democracy, and I mean this very sincerely, we
:17:31. > :17:32.are severely endangered. The line between good evidence based
:17:33. > :17:36.broadcasting and entertainment is a thin one, and I'm sure you credit
:17:37. > :17:40.every single day of your life. Making sure that your audience
:17:41. > :17:44.believes what your audience is saying, that what you are saying is
:17:45. > :17:48.as accurate as you can become spaced, that is not easy, and the
:17:49. > :17:53.notion that the BBC does hold that trust and retains that trust is
:17:54. > :17:57.hugely important to stop you will have seen the BBC's and evidence
:17:58. > :18:00.suggests that trust is lower in the corporation north of the border, do
:18:01. > :18:06.you think it needs a shake-up here? I think that probably the
:18:07. > :18:10.relationship, and I am now speaking and reflecting about what I've
:18:11. > :18:12.night, the relationship between the governance of the BBC and the
:18:13. > :18:17.ability to listen to and take account of the concerns of Scotland
:18:18. > :18:21.does need not so much a shake-up, it needs refining and it needs, I'm
:18:22. > :18:24.sorry to keep using the word, it needs to be utterly transparent so
:18:25. > :18:30.people know what is going on and understand why it is happening.
:18:31. > :18:32.While we have you, what do you make of the current controversy
:18:33. > :18:40.surrounding John Whittingdale? Do you think he has been comprised? It
:18:41. > :18:45.is not about John Whittingdale per se. What I think is worrying is that
:18:46. > :18:53.the group of newspapers have censored themselves, probably in my
:18:54. > :18:58.judgment in order to see off Leveson 2. I have always believed there will
:18:59. > :19:03.be a Leveson 2, it is in a sense more important than Leveson 1, and
:19:04. > :19:07.the possibility that newspapers have shelves this story in order to
:19:08. > :19:10.achieve the removal of that threat, that worries me much more than
:19:11. > :19:15.anything John Whittingdale has got up to. But doesn't it work both
:19:16. > :19:18.ways? Isn't there concern he may have gone easier on the press
:19:19. > :19:23.because he knew they had this ammunition on him? If John
:19:24. > :19:29.Whittingdale was concerned about the possibility that the press might
:19:30. > :19:38.miss use information that he had, surely that falls on the media. The
:19:39. > :19:42.media have to behave in a way we can accept, they cannot start playing
:19:43. > :19:48.games about who they will try and pillory or not, and that is not
:19:49. > :19:52.press freedom as they describe it, and it is not press freedom as you
:19:53. > :19:58.and I understand it. That is, frankly, using the media to obtain
:19:59. > :20:02.your own very aims. And that is my concern, that the newspapers may
:20:03. > :20:05.well have used John Whittingdale's foolishness, and it probably was
:20:06. > :20:09.foolishness, to actually put him in a position where they were able to
:20:10. > :20:13.secure the things they wanted. That is not a democracy, that is not
:20:14. > :20:15.media, that is not good journalism. Lord Puttnam, thank you.
:20:16. > :20:17.Terrorism coming out of the Middle East
:20:18. > :20:20.poses the biggest threat to the national security of the UK.
:20:21. > :20:23.That's the view of the former head of MI5, Dame Stella Rimington.
:20:24. > :20:26.She's been up in the capital for the University of Edinburgh's
:20:27. > :20:29.Spy Week, talking about espionage, international terrorism,
:20:30. > :20:34.She took time to talk to our reporter Suzanne Allan
:20:35. > :20:44.and the difficulties of living a secret life.
:20:45. > :20:49.Dame Stella Rimington, you have been in heaven but this week to talk
:20:50. > :20:55.about women in spy fiction, how has the role of women in spying changed?
:20:56. > :21:01.-- in Edinburgh. It has changed a lot, actually. When I first joined
:21:02. > :21:05.MI5, in 1970, women were definitely second-class citizens, it was a male
:21:06. > :21:09.dominated world, and we had our own career structure, and it was a
:21:10. > :21:14.structure of support, basically. Our job was to look after the blokes who
:21:15. > :21:17.went out and did the intelligence gathering, and we were there to look
:21:18. > :21:20.after the papers, you know, do the things that were needed, not quite
:21:21. > :21:26.making the tea but something like that. And so as the 1970s wore on,
:21:27. > :21:35.and sex discrimination legislation came in, and Women's Lib, women like
:21:36. > :21:37.me, who had degrees and previous careers, and indeed were almost
:21:38. > :21:43.indistinguishable in the background from the men started to say, we are
:21:44. > :21:47.not very content with this second-class role, so it amounted to
:21:48. > :21:51.be a quiet revolution, and the men in charge sort of puffed on the
:21:52. > :21:55.pipes and scratched their heads and decided they would have to let at
:21:56. > :21:59.least to some of us try to do the real intelligence work, and that is
:22:00. > :22:04.how the role of women in MI5 gradually began to change. So these
:22:05. > :22:09.days are female spies and male spies completely equal? Yes, I would say
:22:10. > :22:11.they are, in all three of our intelligence services there are
:22:12. > :22:18.women working on what you might regard as the front line, doing
:22:19. > :22:21.intelligence gathering, but also doing all the other work. Because
:22:22. > :22:26.the work of an intelligence service is not just James Bond, it is a
:22:27. > :22:29.combination of intelligence gathering, intelligence assessment,
:22:30. > :22:35.working out, you know, what you need to do, how you will prevent the arm
:22:36. > :22:39.that somebody is planning. You obviously keep up with the news
:22:40. > :22:43.regularly, in order to inform your writing. Do you find... What sort of
:22:44. > :22:48.things you working on now for your next book? Which crises, which
:22:49. > :22:54.situations around the world are giving you pause for thought now?
:22:55. > :22:57.For my next book, which I have just completed, actually, coming out in
:22:58. > :23:01.June, I decided that they were two themes that I had not covered much
:23:02. > :23:06.in the previous books. And one was the increased my shall we say
:23:07. > :23:10.aggression of the Russian intelligence services as far as the
:23:11. > :23:14.West, particularly Europe? So I decided that was going to be one
:23:15. > :23:20.theme. What might they be doing in order to, you know, somewhat
:23:21. > :23:24.destabilised western Europe? And the second theme, which I thought was
:23:25. > :23:29.quite current today, is this theme of the civil liberties. Beginning, I
:23:30. > :23:34.suppose, with the revelations of Edward Snowden, there is now quite
:23:35. > :23:40.an advanced sort of civil libertarian view that the
:23:41. > :23:43.intelligence services must not intrude into our privacy, and I
:23:44. > :23:47.thought that was a very strong theme as well, because clearly, you know,
:23:48. > :23:52.these are the matters that my colleagues now working in the
:23:53. > :23:55.services are having to deal with. Do think intelligence agencies need
:23:56. > :24:00.more surveillance powers? They need what they need in order to be able
:24:01. > :24:03.to prevent the harm that is intended, and obviously there is
:24:04. > :24:08.always going to be this debate between, you know, those who believe
:24:09. > :24:11.in civil liberties, as I do, and in privacy, and those who have the
:24:12. > :24:17.responsibility of trying to prevent harm. Where this balance lies is
:24:18. > :24:20.something that I cannot possibly comment on now, but it is being
:24:21. > :24:25.extremely carefully thought about, and it was always going to be. What
:24:26. > :24:29.do you think is the greatest threat facing the UK at the moment? The
:24:30. > :24:33.greatest threat to our national security, which is after all what
:24:34. > :24:36.the intelligence services are there to deal with, must come from the
:24:37. > :24:41.sort of terrorism that is coming out of the Middle East at the moment,
:24:42. > :24:46.and it is potentially a large threat, and it is an immediate
:24:47. > :24:50.threat, and it is something that the public, people, are very aware and
:24:51. > :24:54.are worried about. When you look at what happened in Paris and Brussels,
:24:55. > :24:58.do you think there has been a failure in the intelligence services
:24:59. > :25:02.there? It is difficult for me to tell, actually. You always think,
:25:03. > :25:06.when something happens, there is a failure somewhere, and that is one
:25:07. > :25:10.of the difficulties of working in an intelligence service and leading an
:25:11. > :25:13.intelligence service. You have to motivate people, because failures,
:25:14. > :25:17.as you might call it, there for all to see, and their successors are
:25:18. > :25:21.not, you often never hear about successful prevention. So,
:25:22. > :25:25.obviously, it is easy to say something is a failure, but it is a
:25:26. > :25:32.difficult job to find out in advance what is being covertly planned.
:25:33. > :25:35.Recently Police Scotland confirmed it was investigating claims made by
:25:36. > :25:40.the BBC that a leading member of Glasgow Central mosque had a link
:25:41. > :25:44.with banned terrorist organisations, does that surprise you? I don't
:25:45. > :25:49.know, actually, I cannot comment on that, I am not an expert on what is
:25:50. > :25:53.going on now. But you know, if these things are happening, then somebody
:25:54. > :25:57.has to take steps about it, and it is a very difficult and delicate
:25:58. > :26:04.area. Do think Scotland is just as much at risk as any other part of
:26:05. > :26:07.the UK? I think it is, though I have no inside information. White you
:26:08. > :26:17.think women make good spies? YouGov why not, almost! People sometimes
:26:18. > :26:22.ask whether women make better spies than men. No, they come in all
:26:23. > :26:26.shapes and sizes. Women are very good at recruiting and running a
:26:27. > :26:28.human sources, and much of the information comes from human beings,
:26:29. > :26:34.in spite of the technological world that we live in, and women have the
:26:35. > :26:37.soft skills, the feminine skills that enable you to be had is
:26:38. > :26:41.persuade somebody to do something that, you know, they might not want
:26:42. > :26:47.to do full stop instead of being a terrorist, they might like to work
:26:48. > :26:51.for Her Majesty's government! You have been a writer for a long
:26:52. > :26:56.time, how do your two careers compare? Well, it is about age,
:26:57. > :27:02.quite frankly. I could no longer be head of MI5, I am getting too old,
:27:03. > :27:06.but I am able to sit quietly at my laptop and dried. One of the things
:27:07. > :27:11.I like to write about is what it is like to work in a secret
:27:12. > :27:15.organisation, what effect that has on people and their relationships,
:27:16. > :27:19.the way they relate to each other, and people outside. That is the kind
:27:20. > :27:23.of things I bring from my previous career to my present career as a
:27:24. > :27:27.writer. Could you tell any friends what you did? How much did your
:27:28. > :27:32.family know? We don't hear a lot about what it is like to live the
:27:33. > :27:36.normal day-to-day of being a spy. Until I became a public figure, when
:27:37. > :27:41.I was appointed director-general, nobody knew what I did exactly. My
:27:42. > :27:48.husband knew, because he was there when I first started work for MI5.
:27:49. > :27:51.My children vaguely knew I worked for something secret that we didn't
:27:52. > :27:55.talk about. My friends, I did not talk about what I did. And that is
:27:56. > :28:00.one of the difficulties. Even today, when there is a lot more openness,
:28:01. > :28:03.if you are going to work covertly and possibly undercover, you cannot
:28:04. > :28:07.go around telling people what you do. Even today, people who work in
:28:08. > :28:11.the intelligence services do not talk about what they do, they have
:28:12. > :28:14.to make up a cover story of some kind or another or avoid getting
:28:15. > :28:20.into situations where you have to talk about what you do. Were your
:28:21. > :28:24.friends surprised when they found out? Yes, some of them were, people
:28:25. > :28:28.I had known since I was a school were surprised and in some cases
:28:29. > :28:33.offended that I had not told them. That you had not taken them into
:28:34. > :28:37.your confidence? There was a whole aspect of my life they knew nothing
:28:38. > :28:42.about. That is one of the downsides, I suppose, of working in a secret
:28:43. > :28:44.organisation. Dame Stella Rimington, thank you very much for your time.
:28:45. > :28:47.We're having another in our series of election debates next Tuesday,
:28:48. > :28:49.this time on the subject of energy and the environment.
:28:50. > :28:52.If you'd like the chance to be in the audience,
:28:53. > :28:55.through BBC Scotland's Election 2016 online page.
:28:56. > :29:09.I think I love you. I love you too. Let's move in together.
:29:10. > :29:12.Let's get married. Let's have kids. Two. Three. Four.
:29:13. > :29:14.I'm so glad we met. Oh, me too.
:29:15. > :29:18.I just need some space. You're stifling me.
:29:19. > :29:23.I want a divorce. Talk to my lawyer. I'm keeping the CDs. In your dreams.