:00:00. > :00:07.One side says peace in Europe could be at risk if Britain
:00:08. > :00:31.The other side claims coming out of the EU wouldn't
:00:32. > :00:37.The newbies at Parliament - all 51 of them - get
:00:38. > :00:55.And why did Rudolf Hess fly to Scotland 75 years ago?
:00:56. > :00:57.Are you sad that the excitement of the Holyrood election
:00:58. > :01:03.Well, today is your lucky day, because there's another big
:01:04. > :01:04.political event just round the corner.
:01:05. > :01:09.The referendum on whether Britain should stay in the EU has been big
:01:10. > :01:12.news south of the border, and now the campaign is showing
:01:13. > :01:18.Ahead of the vote on the 23rd of June, both sides are taking
:01:19. > :01:20.to the streets and whisky distilleries to ask
:01:21. > :01:32.for your support. Andrew Black reports.
:01:33. > :01:40.Today, just in case you didn't know, his Europe Day. The event seen here
:01:41. > :01:47.being not in Italy is supposed to be an annual celebration of peace and
:01:48. > :01:51.unity but not everyone is happy. In Kosovo, these campaigners unveiled
:01:52. > :01:55.what resembled a giant toy building brick representing what they said
:01:56. > :02:00.was the puzzle that is the European Union. Here in Scotland, it almost
:02:01. > :02:03.seems like a sense of calm has befallen the nation as it winds down
:02:04. > :02:10.from the Scottish election campaign and will be EU referendum has been a
:02:11. > :02:12.huge issue south of the border, it hasn't really gripped voters up
:02:13. > :02:19.here, but is all that about the change? Today the UK Environment
:02:20. > :02:24.Secretary and Conservative MP Liz truss was up early, visiting and
:02:25. > :02:30.East Lothian distillery. She warned Brexit could damage the whiskey
:02:31. > :02:33.industry among other things. I believe we're much better off in a
:02:34. > :02:37.reformed the European Union with all those opportunities, all those
:02:38. > :02:41.access for our markets, opportunities for young people, the
:02:42. > :02:46.work and live in Europe, that I'm here campaigning for. But on the
:02:47. > :02:52.other side, Scotland's home-grown campaigning for Britain to leave the
:02:53. > :02:56.EU is ramping up and stop this man thinks he has a challenge on his
:02:57. > :03:02.hands but argues things aren't as clear cut as they might seem. There
:03:03. > :03:06.is a perception that support for the EU in Scotland is widespread. Think
:03:07. > :03:09.it's broad, I don't think it's very deep. It's one of those issues
:03:10. > :03:14.people shrug their shoulders at, they know it's a fact of life and
:03:15. > :03:18.they don't think beyond that. But when they start hearing the
:03:19. > :03:24.arguments, they will reconsider what they have always assumed about the
:03:25. > :03:29.EU. But of course the EU referendum isn't just about the headline issues
:03:30. > :03:34.but the detailed arguments. Today in Glasgow copper Westminster's
:03:35. > :03:38.Scottish affairs committee came to the city to try and get the of
:03:39. > :03:45.smoothie key topics, which includes farming and fishing. We find there
:03:46. > :03:48.is a lack of evidence for the exit, if we had solid information out
:03:49. > :03:55.there to discuss, make a reasoned and sensible decision on, we would
:03:56. > :04:02.be going down that route. I think they would be a significant majority
:04:03. > :04:08.in favour of Brexit. I think some of them will have reservations but I
:04:09. > :04:16.feel that the micromanagement, top-down management from Europe, has
:04:17. > :04:22.been a failure. Meanwhile, down south, the already high octane state
:04:23. > :04:24.of the campaign continues. With the Prime Minister warning that peace
:04:25. > :04:32.could be at risk if Britain votes to leave the EU. The rows of white
:04:33. > :04:34.headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth War ceremonies stand a
:04:35. > :04:40.solid testament to the price this country has paid to help restore
:04:41. > :04:46.peace and order in Europe. At the same time, ex-London Mayor Boris
:04:47. > :04:51.Johnson hit back saying the EU's anti-democratic tendencies risked
:04:52. > :04:56.instability. If we vote to leave TEU, we will not be voting to leave
:04:57. > :05:00.Europe. Of all the arguments they make, this is the one that
:05:01. > :05:11.infuriates me the most. In a hotly contested field. I am a child of
:05:12. > :05:15.Europe. So as Europe Day draws to a close, it doesn't seem there has
:05:16. > :05:17.been much peace or unity in this referendum campaign and that's
:05:18. > :05:20.probably how it will continue until polling day.
:05:21. > :05:22.Just before we came on air I spoke to the SNP's foreign
:05:23. > :05:24.affairs spokesperson, Alex Salmond, in Millbank.
:05:25. > :05:26.He was just back from Brussels where, earlier today,
:05:27. > :05:29.he was setting out the case for remaining in the EU.
:05:30. > :05:31.And in our Edinburgh studio, the former Conservative MSP
:05:32. > :05:41.and Leave.EU spokersperson, Brian Monteith.
:05:42. > :05:46.used to hearing you argue that Scotland is better off as an
:05:47. > :05:52.independent country, Alex Salmond, not tied to an undemocratic
:05:53. > :05:57.superstate. That being the case, why are you so keen on the European
:05:58. > :06:00.Union? Because Scotland can be independent within the European
:06:01. > :06:04.structure. The key difference between the European Union and the
:06:05. > :06:08.whispers the arrangement is if Scotland were independent within
:06:09. > :06:12.Europe, we would control 99% of our taxation base, everything except the
:06:13. > :06:16.VAT contribution. In Westminster, even with the new powers coming to
:06:17. > :06:20.the Scottish Parliament, 70% of our taxation base is controlled from
:06:21. > :06:24.London. That difference between independent from Europe and the
:06:25. > :06:28.arrangement we have within the it's quite simple. Countries can be
:06:29. > :06:35.independent within the European Union. I wonder if you are out of
:06:36. > :06:39.step with many SNP supporters. The beauty leader said there is plenty
:06:40. > :06:44.of evidence to show almost half of SNP supporters do not want the UK or
:06:45. > :06:52.Scotland to remain in the European Union. Is he wrong? He is. In the
:06:53. > :06:55.last poll, two thirds of supporting the position I taken notice of
:06:56. > :07:02.identical to the majority among Scots, two thirds of them want to
:07:03. > :07:04.remain within the EU and a healthy number of these people would like to
:07:05. > :07:10.see Scotland independent within that structure. Brian Monteith, the
:07:11. > :07:15.challenge you have is that, persuading people in Scotland to
:07:16. > :07:21.come to your site, it's a much closer race south of the border than
:07:22. > :07:26.here. It's a challenge we welcome. I think it's fair to say that over the
:07:27. > :07:34.last ten or more years, the oxygen up the city has been taken by the
:07:35. > :07:40.issue of Scotland's place in the UK -- oxygen of publicity. Not
:07:41. > :07:45.Scotland's place in the EU. As people in all parties begin to
:07:46. > :07:52.discuss more the issues at hand, and the possibility that if we were to
:07:53. > :07:54.leave the EU because of the Scotland act, the powers on fishing and
:07:55. > :08:02.farming would automatically come to Holyrood, then there are attractions
:08:03. > :08:06.which means they can support leading the EU and still support Scotland
:08:07. > :08:12.eventually leaving the UK. For the Nationalists, it could be a win-win.
:08:13. > :08:17.Let me put you a point Alex Salmond made today, he said the EU underpins
:08:18. > :08:23.hundreds of thousands of jobs in Scotland and that it is a huge
:08:24. > :08:29.single market. That being the case, how many of those jobs that are tied
:08:30. > :08:34.to Europe would be lost if we left the EU? Actually, I would be honest,
:08:35. > :08:40.I have no idea. Just as the Germans and the French and the Italians have
:08:41. > :08:47.no idea how many jobs they would lose if they started a trade war as
:08:48. > :08:51.some repercussion of Scotland and the UK leaving the EU. There won't
:08:52. > :08:56.be one because what we know is, they sell more goods and services to us
:08:57. > :08:59.then we to them, so it is in their interests that not just hundreds,
:09:00. > :09:05.but tens of hundreds of thousands of jobs would be lost on the continent,
:09:06. > :09:08.and it does seem rich coming from Alex to make that kind of argument
:09:09. > :09:12.when he was less concerned about the hundreds of thousands of jobs that
:09:13. > :09:18.might be lost from losing market share from the UK. It doesn't seem a
:09:19. > :09:24.strong suit for the Nationalists to play. Well, of course, what is
:09:25. > :09:29.really rich is Brian Monteith, part of a scaremongering edge together
:09:30. > :09:34.campaign, complaining about scaremongering from his party
:09:35. > :09:41.colleagues like David Cameron. That's not true. I have never asked
:09:42. > :09:44.to have an arrangement to guarantee the trading position between the UK
:09:45. > :09:50.and the rest of Europe, but he was to accept a Switzerland or Norwegian
:09:51. > :09:54.type deal, or if you do that, you are stuck with the incumbency is
:09:55. > :10:00.that they except to get access to the single market and the essential
:10:01. > :10:05.divide in the Brexit campaign is between people like Brian, who see
:10:06. > :10:09.the UK as some sort of Singapore in the mid-Atlantic, trading with the
:10:10. > :10:15.world, and those who say, we could do the same deal as we have got, but
:10:16. > :10:19.we would be out with. If you do that deal, which is possible, you have to
:10:20. > :10:24.accept like Norway and Switzerland do, all of the incumbency is of the
:10:25. > :10:30.EU if you want the advantages of access to the single market. That's
:10:31. > :10:35.the conundrum nobody in the Brexit campaign has come close to solving
:10:36. > :10:40.which is why I suspect they will lose the election. If you want free
:10:41. > :10:45.trade, you have to make the rules you are working with, how can we do
:10:46. > :10:51.that outside the EU? I first of all have the correct Alex on the
:10:52. > :10:55.suggestion that somehow I am a scaremonger, I was one of the
:10:56. > :11:01.loudest critics on the unionist side, saying it was a mistake and
:11:02. > :11:06.what they needed was a popular and positive campaign. The same goes for
:11:07. > :11:09.this referendum and what I have been advocating in this EU referendum is
:11:10. > :11:14.that we can have a solution to trade that is not some Singapore solution
:11:15. > :11:19.but takes us back to the position when Glasgow was the workshop of the
:11:20. > :11:24.world. He don't have to be part of China to trade with China. You don't
:11:25. > :11:31.have to be part of the USA to trade with the USA and you don't have to
:11:32. > :11:34.be part of the EU to trade with EU countries. What is self-evident is
:11:35. > :11:41.some of the richest countries of the world have different, separate
:11:42. > :11:45.arrangements. We have a strong hand to play because of hours trading
:11:46. > :11:51.strength as the fifth largest economy in the world. Look at World
:11:52. > :11:55.Trade Organisation rules and we can trade with those rules or even get
:11:56. > :12:02.better trade deals if EE you want them. Can the UK be an independent
:12:03. > :12:08.country like you would like Scotland to be? Brian has given the game
:12:09. > :12:15.away. If you want to be Switzerland and Norway and what access to the
:12:16. > :12:19.single market you do accept... Norway excepts free movement of
:12:20. > :12:25.labour, which of course most of the Brexit ears, that is anathema to
:12:26. > :12:29.them. If you want to be Switzerland and Norway, you have to do what they
:12:30. > :12:36.do. Norway pays money into the EU budget in the same way as the UK
:12:37. > :12:43.does. That's not true either. Can I correct the point that if Brexit
:12:44. > :12:46.campaigners, the promise to ship and the Tory party would be delivered
:12:47. > :12:52.into the hands of the likes of Boris Johnson, who is somebody who doesn't
:12:53. > :12:55.want additional powers for the Scottish parliament but wants to
:12:56. > :12:58.reverse the powers we already have, rather like Brian Monteith did when
:12:59. > :13:04.he campaigned against having a Scottish parliament in the 1990s,
:13:05. > :13:08.that's the trouble with the Brexit campaign. People who say they are
:13:09. > :13:12.keen on Scotland getting extra powers, but in the past like Prine
:13:13. > :13:18.and Boris Johnson, have done everything possible to stop Scotland
:13:19. > :13:21.getting the powers we need to be an independent country -- like Brian.
:13:22. > :13:27.You like to play the man and not the ball. If you read any of my writing
:13:28. > :13:32.even though I campaigned against the Scottish parliament because of its
:13:33. > :13:36.inconsistency, and when it was brought about, I argued for more
:13:37. > :13:40.powers, to make it work. So if you're going to bring in history,
:13:41. > :13:43.you need to read the history, you need to read what people say and you
:13:44. > :13:48.will know I have been an advocate of more powers for the Scottish limit.
:13:49. > :13:53.Don't play the man, tackle the issues. This debate could run for
:13:54. > :14:04.hours and hours. We are out of time. Fresh-faced MSPs have been
:14:05. > :14:05.arriving at Holyrood for their first day on the job
:14:06. > :14:08.after the election last week. The result saw the SNP
:14:09. > :14:11.lose its majority and the Tories They're the first batch of MSPs
:14:12. > :14:20.to undergo a four-day induction programme, a scheme developed
:14:21. > :14:22.by Tricia Marwick and one of her last achievements
:14:23. > :14:23.as Presiding Officer. Here's a taste of what some of those
:14:24. > :14:47.new MSPs made of their first day It is one thing to have worked in
:14:48. > :14:52.Parliament before, quite another to be here as an MSP. I have already
:14:53. > :14:57.been registered so I have my security pass. I have given my
:14:58. > :15:03.details to the HR team and I am about to go and get logged onto my
:15:04. > :15:07.new e-mail system. My name is thine Lee Johnson and I
:15:08. > :15:12.am the new MSP for Edinburgh Southern. This is a lot to take in.
:15:13. > :15:17.It is a bit like the first day at school. Lots of new things to find
:15:18. > :15:23.out about. Finding my way around the building. Learning about how to get
:15:24. > :15:29.the information I need, who is who. So there is a lot to take in.
:15:30. > :15:32.The opportunity that I have got as the youngest Member of Parliament is
:15:33. > :15:36.proving that young people are not just the future as a silly cliche
:15:37. > :15:41.but that we are here now and then important part of the
:15:42. > :15:44.decision-making process. Brian Little, Central Scotland. I am
:15:45. > :15:48.most looking forward to putting some of my ideas into the Chamber, it is
:15:49. > :15:53.great to see some of the people that I got to know getting in. Ruth
:15:54. > :15:59.Davidson has shown that she is the right person to be in opposition, so
:16:00. > :16:03.it will be feisty! My name is Alex and I am the newly
:16:04. > :16:09.elected MSP for Edinburgh Western. It is a bit of a world wind to that
:16:10. > :16:13.the staff of organised the parliament. There is lunch with the
:16:14. > :16:15.Presiding Officer, 4-ball Kos... This is the place I have wanted to
:16:16. > :16:22.be for a long time. In our Edinburgh studio, we are
:16:23. > :16:25.joined by a couple of new MSPs - Kate Forbes for the SNP
:16:26. > :16:31.and the Scottish Congratulations to you both, Ross
:16:32. > :16:34.Thomson you were elected on the regional list for the Conservatives,
:16:35. > :16:39.did you even expect to make it to Holyrood today?
:16:40. > :16:42.It has been quite a surreal day. In terms of my expectations, you never
:16:43. > :16:46.take anything for granted. We work really hard in the north-east of
:16:47. > :16:51.Scotland to win as many votes as we can. I was always the third on our
:16:52. > :16:56.party list. I was confident that we could at least go back to three. But
:16:57. > :16:59.at the end of the day we ended up with five and in doing so, denied
:17:00. > :17:04.the SNP their majority in parliament. So the region has played
:17:05. > :17:08.a key role in securing Ruth Davidson as Leader of the Opposition.
:17:09. > :17:13.Indeed. Kate Forbes, congratulations to you as well. You have more reason
:17:14. > :17:18.to be confident ahead of this election. But now that you are
:17:19. > :17:23.there, what did you do first? What Tiger priorities as a new MSP?
:17:24. > :17:26.It is great to come down to the parliament from my Highland
:17:27. > :17:30.constituency where I was given a personal mandate from the people of
:17:31. > :17:35.the constituency to be part of a party that has got a historic third
:17:36. > :17:40.term in the parliament. We do not have an outright majority but we
:17:41. > :17:44.still have more MSPs than the Labour Party, the Tories or the Lib Dems
:17:45. > :17:50.combined. But our job is to deliver for the people of Scotland, and to
:17:51. > :17:54.do that, we must understand how the parliament works and how to use the
:17:55. > :17:58.procedures and the systems in the parliament. That is why these four
:17:59. > :18:02.days have been so useful and will be so useful, as we learn how the
:18:03. > :18:07.parliament works and how we can deliver for the people of Scotland,
:18:08. > :18:13.using the systems in the parliament. You must have an idea, I wonder,
:18:14. > :18:17.ahead of time. Ross Thomson, how did you go about making a difference and
:18:18. > :18:21.not just making up the numbers? Today was quite an example of it.
:18:22. > :18:25.There was an exception where I meant some of the new members of the
:18:26. > :18:29.Scottish Parliament from across the political divides. Myself and Kate
:18:30. > :18:32.Forbes had some good discussions today and I am looking forward to
:18:33. > :18:37.working with everyone. I think we can build a consensus within the
:18:38. > :18:39.Scottish Parliament, we can operate with our colleagues, particularly,
:18:40. > :18:43.with the named person coming up. Ruth Davidson has made it clear that
:18:44. > :18:46.this is something upon which we can make a difference and with working
:18:47. > :18:51.with the Lib Dems and the Labour Party, we can help to change the
:18:52. > :18:54.direction, not only of the Scottish Government but this country well.
:18:55. > :18:59.I wonder Kate Forbes, is that on your agenda as well, are you willing
:19:00. > :19:03.to compromise, DC consensus as the way ahead or is it more complicated
:19:04. > :19:06.than that? Nicola Sturgeon has been very clear
:19:07. > :19:11.since the weekend that we want to build a government that is open and
:19:12. > :19:15.inclusive, and that finds common ground because there is common
:19:16. > :19:18.ground to be found on things like education, on the environment, on
:19:19. > :19:24.justice. And it is making sure that together, as parliamentarians
:19:25. > :19:28.elected by the people of Scotland, weekend of the changes that we want
:19:29. > :19:32.to see in Scotland. Scotland has moved a long way in the last nine
:19:33. > :19:35.years but we have got further to go. Over the course of the next five, we
:19:36. > :19:39.intend to be a government that is open, inclusive and build consensus
:19:40. > :19:44.on issues that matter to the people of Scotland.
:19:45. > :19:48.Well, we must be that there. Thank you both very much for your time. We
:19:49. > :19:49.will no doubt speak you both again in the coming years.
:19:50. > :19:54.Thank you. 75 years ago tomorrow,
:19:55. > :19:56.one of the strangest episodes of the Second World War took
:19:57. > :19:58.place in Scotland. Late in the evening,
:19:59. > :20:00.a German plane crashed The pilot turned out to be Hitler's
:20:01. > :20:04.deputy, Rudolf Hess, who was on a secret mission,
:20:05. > :20:06.the details of which have He flew from Bavaria
:20:07. > :20:11.straight to Scotland, The wrecked Messerschmitt,
:20:12. > :20:16.Rudolf Hess flew to Hess survived several attempts
:20:17. > :20:23.to down him but finally with the plane out of fuel,
:20:24. > :20:26.he bailed out just before it crashed I am the man that
:20:27. > :20:33.captured Rudolf Hess. Ploughman David McLean detained
:20:34. > :20:37.the Vice Fuhrer until the home guard took him to Maryhill
:20:38. > :20:39.Barracks in Glasgow. There, Rudolf Hess asked
:20:40. > :20:42.for and was granted a meeting with the Duke of Hamilton,
:20:43. > :20:45.a senior RAF officer who had been at the Berlin Olympics five years
:20:46. > :20:48.earlier, and who Rudolf Hess wrongly The captured German pilot had given
:20:49. > :21:01.a false name to everybody else My father had been to the Olympic
:21:02. > :21:06.Games, he did not meet Rudolf Hess but he met one of his colleagues who
:21:07. > :21:11.was advising the regime on foreign affairs and advised Hitler stronger
:21:12. > :21:16.against starting the Second World War. -- strongly against. My father
:21:17. > :21:19.did not know Rudolf Hess antilitter stated in prison to this comment and
:21:20. > :21:27.that he had not met my father before the Second World War.
:21:28. > :21:32.It was not until the meeting in Glasgow that Rudolf Hess revealed
:21:33. > :21:35.his identity. This news was reported to Winston Churchill.
:21:36. > :21:37.The captured German pilot had given a false name to everybody else
:21:38. > :21:41.but had revealed his true identity to my father and when my father
:21:42. > :21:43.reported to Churchill at Ditchley Park, Churchill
:21:44. > :21:57.And then he said, Rudolf Hess or no Rudolf Hess, I am going out to see
:21:58. > :22:01.the Marx Brothers, and he went out to see the film.
:22:02. > :22:03.40 years ago, James Douglas-Hamilton wrote what is regarded as the
:22:04. > :22:07.He believes Rudolf Hess came without the knowledge
:22:08. > :22:09.of Hitler to try to get Britain out of the war,
:22:10. > :22:12.not for the sake of peace, but because Germany planned
:22:13. > :22:14.to attack Russia and Rudolf Hess did not think that they
:22:15. > :22:20.He had two motors to get Britain out of the war before the attack on
:22:21. > :22:29.Russia, six weeks before Rudolf Hess landed. And to begin his Lindo Wing
:22:30. > :22:32.influence upon Hitler. In that famous book, Germany must never
:22:33. > :22:36.again make the mistake of fighting a war on two fronts. And you could see
:22:37. > :22:45.that very soon Hitler was going to make the mistake which was warned
:22:46. > :22:47.against in that book. Britain had to be removed from the war.
:22:48. > :22:52.A version of events that Rudolf Hess did not contradict.
:22:53. > :23:00.His comandante put to him the account is made in my book about
:23:01. > :23:02.him. And he did not deny what I had said.
:23:03. > :23:03.The book is republished for the 75th anniversary,
:23:04. > :23:05.with additional information from papers just released under
:23:06. > :23:13.But even now, other documents remain secret.
:23:14. > :23:16.Rudolf Hess was convicted of war crimes at Nuremberg and spent
:23:17. > :23:19.The Duke of Hamilton described his encounter
:23:20. > :23:29.But the intrigue surrounding it has endured for 75 years.
:23:30. > :23:31.Now joining me to further discuss the day's news
:23:32. > :23:33.is editor of the Big Issue, Paul McNamee, and freelance
:23:34. > :23:49.Thank you to you both for coming in. Paul McNamee, that is talk about the
:23:50. > :23:53.EU referendum. Lots of passion, you probably heard from the big are
:23:54. > :23:59.there. But I wonder if the debate has set the heather on fire here
:24:00. > :24:03.quite as it has south of the border. People are still growing up to it
:24:04. > :24:06.and waking up to it now that the election is finished.
:24:07. > :24:10.That is the reason, I think. We have been focused upon that election, we
:24:11. > :24:15.had been looking to see how it would play out, where the SNP would be,
:24:16. > :24:19.with the power would be. We have not focused too much on Brexit. I think
:24:20. > :24:26.that that will change. We were discussing earlier, the possible
:24:27. > :24:32.turn up. I think it will get more engagement. People like going to a
:24:33. > :24:33.polling station in Scotland, they have been doing a lot of it
:24:34. > :24:38.recently! Whatever they get fed up with that?
:24:39. > :24:42.It is possible. I would like to think not because it is so
:24:43. > :24:47.fundamentally important, they think people will get engaged.
:24:48. > :24:54.Andrea, can a referendum settle this issue once and for all?
:24:55. > :24:57.It depends on the resort, if we have another 55-45 spot across Britain,
:24:58. > :25:03.it obviously won't because the people that want Brexit will not
:25:04. > :25:07.shut up about it. If it is a fairly definitive judgment, it could do for
:25:08. > :25:12.at least what they would call a liquid generation, ten years or so.
:25:13. > :25:16.-- result. What will be interesting is how different or not different
:25:17. > :25:22.Scotland's vote is to the rest of Britain. That is where we will see
:25:23. > :25:26.the line. That is where the interest will come in Scotland, how does it
:25:27. > :25:31.play out for us? That is a bit of an inch of view to take on it because
:25:32. > :25:37.by and large polls show that there is a stronger support for the EU
:25:38. > :25:41.here in Scotland and there is no big figures, nor Scottish version of
:25:42. > :25:45.Boris Johnson that has come out in favour of Brexit here, so I think we
:25:46. > :25:53.will look at it in terms of how it affects Scottish politics, which
:25:54. > :25:57.perhaps is a Nairobi to look at it. Paul, is it possible, is it a fact
:25:58. > :26:00.free zone, this debate? It is hard to establish the facts ahead of the
:26:01. > :26:05.independence referendum, I wonder what this one, it is much the same
:26:06. > :26:10.sort of thing, it comes down to how you feel about it?
:26:11. > :26:16.Yes, we saw in one of your earlier clips to do with the agricultural
:26:17. > :26:20.subcommittee, the people have said that they do not know, they do not
:26:21. > :26:26.know where this local and therefore there is confusion. That is the
:26:27. > :26:30.case. It will be a gut feeling, people thinking, right, I believe
:26:31. > :26:33.this is the right thing to do. Because the evidence for it does not
:26:34. > :26:39.exist, so they will have to go that way. And if it does, chances are, it
:26:40. > :26:43.will be Remain because people will stay with what they know.
:26:44. > :26:49.Let us talk about the election result. Especially about the
:26:50. > :26:52.apparent fault line that has opened up in Scottish politics, the
:26:53. > :26:55.polarisation, the divide between unionists on the one hand and
:26:56. > :27:00.nationalists on the other hand. David Torrance in The Herald has
:27:01. > :27:05.described it as Oscar Isaac show. That has generated a lot of heat
:27:06. > :27:10.online. Ian Mackay has said that Oscar Isaac show there is an
:27:11. > :27:14.absorbed comment. It comes with a gun and a mask, Alistair has also
:27:15. > :27:19.said that it is something that we understand to revert to
:27:20. > :27:26.constitutional politics. -- Ulsterisation.
:27:27. > :27:33.I think David Torrance has been a little bit cheeky. We do not have
:27:34. > :27:36.wars between two communities, by and large it has been a pretty
:27:37. > :27:40.respectful and reasonable discussion. People have been looking
:27:41. > :27:43.at the issues. They have really strong views on each side of it but
:27:44. > :27:49.I do not think you can name it violence. But there is a deeper
:27:50. > :27:53.point that things are becoming tribal, people are identifying
:27:54. > :27:57.themselves still but these mental badges of Yes or Noel, to some
:27:58. > :28:02.extent. I do not think that is the story of last week's election, even
:28:03. > :28:06.if you can call it a field success of the Tories.
:28:07. > :28:11.The Tories have shown that there is a left, right debate as well. It is
:28:12. > :28:20.not just about Robert you want an independent Scotland. -- No.
:28:21. > :28:25.They were very clever, Ruth Davidson, very likeable, she was
:28:26. > :28:28.able to somehow uncouple herself from the Westminster Conservative
:28:29. > :28:32.Party to make it look as though the Conservative Scottish party was not
:28:33. > :28:37.involved with some of the nastier elements of austerity, cuts, health
:28:38. > :28:43.and education, therefore she can look progressive, as if she was for
:28:44. > :28:48.the underclass and for the people, rather than the way that Westminster
:28:49. > :28:52.conservatism is. She has cannily set up a different sort of feeling
:28:53. > :28:57.around Scottish conservatism. They cannot understate that. Let us
:28:58. > :29:00.remember that the proportion of their vote was not much higher than
:29:01. > :29:06.it had been in recent years. The dead still of a good number or
:29:07. > :29:11.MSPs, that should be considered. There was some tactical voting going
:29:12. > :29:15.on as to the location of those MSPs. It is not as simple as saying all of
:29:16. > :29:18.the union votes went to the Tories. I am not telling you that was not
:29:19. > :29:23.part of it, but I think that they certainly framed like that. To some
:29:24. > :29:27.extent, it worked in terms of a political image, product that will
:29:28. > :29:31.last throughout the term of the parliament and probably can't be
:29:32. > :29:35.identified that we, I am not sure. Well, we are about out of time.
:29:36. > :29:40.Thank you both very much indeed for that. Paul McNamee and Andrea
:29:41. > :29:44.Mullaney. Thank you very much. That is it tonight.
:29:45. > :29:51.So join me then, usual time, bye-bye.