:00:00. > :00:07.A new session of parliament, fairly new parliament,
:00:08. > :00:10.but the traditional oath-swearing to the Queen continues.
:00:11. > :00:35.Tonight, it was all smiles as the party leaders met the Prince.
:00:36. > :00:38.But, as for what's happening tomorrow, republicans are angry
:00:39. > :00:43.MSPs will have to swear the oath of allegiance.
:00:44. > :00:45.Their opponents say the monarchy "embodies the people".
:00:46. > :00:49.After the oath ceremony, the new Presiding Officer
:00:50. > :00:58.We'll run the rule over the candidates.
:00:59. > :01:00.And the secret insights into the life
:01:01. > :01:14.The Kirking of the Parliament took place tonight ahead of the first
:01:15. > :01:19.Holyrood's a modern institution but it's an ancient tradition.
:01:20. > :01:22.The ceremony even took place in the pre-union Scots Parliament.
:01:23. > :01:24.Prince Charles was there, representing the Queen.
:01:25. > :01:27.In a moment, we'll debate if it's right that MSPs should swear
:01:28. > :01:29.the oath of allegiance, but first, our political editor
:01:30. > :01:42.This is St Giles Cathedral in Edinburgh, otherwise known as the
:01:43. > :01:44.high Kirk of Saint Giles. The setting this evening for an
:01:45. > :01:53.ecumenical interfaith service known as the cracking of the Parliament.
:01:54. > :01:59.-- the Kirking. Prince Charles arrived, representing a magisterial
:02:00. > :02:01.Queen. This ceremony dates back centuries, to the pre-union Scots
:02:02. > :02:09.Parliament. The contemporary version was joined by party leaders and MSPs
:02:10. > :02:19.from all parties will stop it is a way of a blessing on elected
:02:20. > :02:22.tribunals. And also a reading by Patricia Marwick, the Presiding
:02:23. > :02:28.Officer, retiring Presiding Officer, on the subject of tax. A reading
:02:29. > :02:32.that refers to taxation, I'm sure at all a bit bleak reference by the
:02:33. > :02:39.Presiding Officer, retiring, to the new powers coming Holyrood's way.
:02:40. > :02:44.From that, the MSPs set off to a meeting and reception with Prince
:02:45. > :02:47.Charles and the Duke of Rothesay. I am sure they discuss various issues.
:02:48. > :02:52.He met the party leaders as well. Tomorrow, they move from this
:02:53. > :02:58.service, the ceremonial service, to move on to the work of Parliament.
:02:59. > :03:02.The MSPs will be sworn in tomorrow. They will take a bow of allegiance
:03:03. > :03:08.to Her Majesty The Queen either as a North or an affirmation, according
:03:09. > :03:14.to choice. But the author is obligatory. Then their job as
:03:15. > :03:18.parliamentarians begins. They have to later Presiding Officer fast. It
:03:19. > :03:24.is all was a tough job but in this new parliament, it is articulately
:03:25. > :03:29.tough because we have they minority Government. -- particularly tough.
:03:30. > :03:30.So we have ancient tradition and modern politics intertwined.
:03:31. > :03:33.Now, the Green Party co-convener Patrick Harvie didn't attend
:03:34. > :03:36.the Kirking and didn't meet Prince Charles.
:03:37. > :03:40.The Green Party said he had not gone because he wasn't religious.
:03:41. > :03:43.Of course, as Brian said, MSPs will have to swear or affirm
:03:44. > :03:45.tomorrow that they bear true allegiance to the Queen.
:03:46. > :03:48.If they don't, they lose their seats.
:03:49. > :03:51.I'm now joined from Dunstable by Graham Smith from the campaign
:03:52. > :03:54.group Republic, and in Edinburgh is the author and commentator,
:03:55. > :04:06.Good evening to both of you. Firstly, if MSPs do not swear or
:04:07. > :04:12.affirm and all of allegiance to the Queen, who do you think they should
:04:13. > :04:17.swear it to? Every politician's allegiance should be to the people
:04:18. > :04:20.who have elected them and the country as a whole. There are many
:04:21. > :04:25.things wrong with the monarchy but on this, it is symbolic and a matter
:04:26. > :04:31.of principle. I think the symbolism is important. Last Thursday, we had
:04:32. > :04:36.a hugely democratic exercise. People across Scotland electing their own
:04:37. > :04:39.parliament. This first day, tomorrow, those same MSPs going into
:04:40. > :04:42.that parliament, not swearing allegiance to the people that chose
:04:43. > :04:46.them but swearing allegiance to the Queen. I just do not buy this idea
:04:47. > :04:51.that the Queen is somehow an embodiment of the people. Let's cut
:04:52. > :04:56.out the middleman. If it is an allegiance to the people, let's hear
:04:57. > :05:01.it. Let's hear MSPs say that the allegiances to be both Scotland and
:05:02. > :05:08.to Scotland as a whole. The argument is that the monarchy embodies the
:05:09. > :05:14.people, but Mr Smith is saying, cut out the middleman. The monarchy does
:05:15. > :05:17.not embody the people without politics. The Queen is the
:05:18. > :05:24.embodiment of the monarchy. There are no politics involved. What you
:05:25. > :05:31.do if you do not have a monarchy... You have a presidency or detect a
:05:32. > :05:39.ship -- dictatorship. We have reckon that back 1500 years. -- we have a
:05:40. > :05:43.monarchy. You laughed at that point. But it would represent the people? A
:05:44. > :05:47.president or some other character? You may have to look at the Republic
:05:48. > :05:53.of Ireland. You have elected heads of state that are nonpartisan, even
:05:54. > :05:58.though they have had a political past. The Queen is political, the
:05:59. > :06:05.monarchy is leading the -- is very political. It is shrouded in
:06:06. > :06:08.secrecy. We have seen this with Prince Charles, in Edinburgh today,
:06:09. > :06:15.who routinely lobbied ministers both in Edinburgh and in London. This is
:06:16. > :06:19.a highly political institution. And now one embodies the people better
:06:20. > :06:22.than the people themselves. This is supposed to be democratic. Let the
:06:23. > :06:26.people be represented freely and fairly and let the MSPs make quite
:06:27. > :06:32.clear that there allegiances to the people, not the monarch. Roddy
:06:33. > :06:40.Martine, perhaps it is not the institution new poetry. Graeme Smith
:06:41. > :06:47.says it is not impartial, in some ways. We have the Queen's comments
:06:48. > :06:50.on the Chinese. We had the referendum, where she asked people
:06:51. > :06:58.to think very carefully. The Royal Family have no power. They are
:06:59. > :07:04.basically a symbol. A nation needs a head of state that is completely
:07:05. > :07:09.remote from the political bearpit, as far as I can see. If you don't
:07:10. > :07:15.have that, you have a president trump, and they know which I prefer.
:07:16. > :07:20.If MSPs do not swear or affirm the oath within two months, they lose
:07:21. > :07:29.their seat. What would your advice be to MSPs who are republicans? What
:07:30. > :07:33.would you say if they are forming golf under pressure? Part of the
:07:34. > :07:39.problem with the oath, in London as well as Cardiff, is that people are
:07:40. > :07:43.elected and want to serve the people and do their job and they have do
:07:44. > :07:54.then say something in Parliament under oath which is dishonest. Now
:07:55. > :07:58.it is very hard for me to say to republicans in Holyrood, don't take
:07:59. > :08:02.Euros, because that is a very serious thing to do. But I think
:08:03. > :08:11.people should not be placed in that position. -- do not take your oath.
:08:12. > :08:15.Whether or not you swear an oath to God or you remove that reference, in
:08:16. > :08:20.the same way, you should have an option, Queen or no Queen. Would
:08:21. > :08:24.that be fair, to have an option, perhaps? And what is your response
:08:25. > :08:30.when some MSPs have sworn it with their fingers crossed? That is their
:08:31. > :08:33.own problem. I can see this is going to happen. The problem is, to my
:08:34. > :08:39.mind, it is all about tradition and what you stand for. I look at the
:08:40. > :08:46.Scotland I live in is a great country that goes back through the
:08:47. > :08:48.generations. Long before being pushed harder monarchy. I would be
:08:49. > :08:54.visible it if we were shedding new traditions. We have been fighting
:08:55. > :08:58.for democracy and discarded will fight for the establishment of the
:08:59. > :09:01.new establishment and that is where allegiances should lie. We will have
:09:02. > :09:03.to leave it there. Thank you for joining me, both.
:09:04. > :09:05.As Brian mentioned, the new Presiding Officer
:09:06. > :09:09.So who are the candidates to sit in the big chair at Holyrood?
:09:10. > :09:12.Various MSPs have put their names forward to replace Tricia Marwick,
:09:13. > :09:14.some expected and some perhaps a little unexpected.
:09:15. > :09:16.Let's take a look at the runners and riders
:09:17. > :09:35.If you keep interrupting... Mr Kelly, please sit down. Sit down. I
:09:36. > :09:39.will not sit down. Politicians are lightly lot. A stern voice and firm
:09:40. > :09:45.hand are sometimes needed. Just ask Tricia Marwick. Please escort Mr
:09:46. > :09:49.Kelly from the chamber. As you keep up rowdy lot under control, some
:09:50. > :09:54.gentle humour is also required. Here is the House of Commons speaker
:09:55. > :09:58.earlier today as MPs groan when he called the Liberal Democrat leader.
:09:59. > :10:06.He has a right to be heard and he will be at! And I insist on a velvet
:10:07. > :10:09.glove is needed. That might be a good line in the job advert for the
:10:10. > :10:13.Holyrood Presiding Officer's post. Who is now running? Former Labour
:10:14. > :10:20.leader Johann Lamont has made her intentions known. Ken Macintosh, who
:10:21. > :10:24.fought Johann Lamont for the Labour leadership, also wants the job.
:10:25. > :10:28.Completing the Labour trio of applicants, Elaine Smith, was a
:10:29. > :10:33.Deputy Presiding Officer in the last Parliament. From the Conservatives,
:10:34. > :10:37.another former Deputy, John Scott, hopes to move into the hot seat. And
:10:38. > :10:44.Murdo Fraser, who try to be Tory leader in 2011, is also looking for
:10:45. > :10:48.support from fellow MSPs. But Prescott and of the SNP, who had
:10:49. > :10:51.been widely tipped before the election as a next Presiding
:10:52. > :10:55.Officer, will not be going for it, with his party needing to hang on to
:10:56. > :10:59.every one of their 63 votes. Indeed, in Westminster today, the
:11:00. > :11:05.reverberations from election were still being felt. The Prime
:11:06. > :11:08.Minister's Government was elected with 37% of the vote. I am sure he
:11:09. > :11:14.would acknowledge these excess of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP in being
:11:15. > :11:22.returned victorious for the third time with 46%. We have something in
:11:23. > :11:25.common because of course the SNP have gone from majority to minority,
:11:26. > :11:30.whilst the Conservatives have gone from coalition to majority.
:11:31. > :11:33.Chairing a session of Parliament whether in Westminster Hall and it
:11:34. > :11:37.can be a tough job, although the Presiding Officer is rewarded,
:11:38. > :11:44.receiving an annual salary of ?106,000.
:11:45. > :11:46.Her West Minister candidates lightly interrupted what was going on there.
:11:47. > :11:48.Sorry about that! Let's discuss this a bit further
:11:49. > :11:50.with two political commentators. From the Guardian, we have
:11:51. > :11:52.Severin Carrell, and we're also joined by the Herald columnist David
:11:53. > :12:01.Torrance. Good evening to you both. Severin,
:12:02. > :12:04.who is your money on? I genuinely do not know. That is a lot of
:12:05. > :12:08.discussion in the press gallery at Holyrood about who are the real
:12:09. > :12:12.favourites. It seems to be a race between Ken Macintosh and Johann
:12:13. > :12:21.Lamont. Part of the uncertainty is working in which we SNP MSPs will
:12:22. > :12:25.go. Obviously, they have 63 votes. They have the biggest bloc. It
:12:26. > :12:28.depends, really, on how much they think they are going to gain from
:12:29. > :12:33.having either Johann Lamont or Ken Macintosh in the post. They properly
:12:34. > :12:41.have good reason to dislike both of them. David Torrance, that is the
:12:42. > :12:44.key point. You might SNP MSPs back? If Murdo Fraser becomes Presiding
:12:45. > :12:48.Officer, that is quite an important Conservative frontbencher
:12:49. > :12:53.neutralised at a time when the Conservatives are looking a bit more
:12:54. > :12:58.powerful in Holyrood. No disrespect to Murdo Fraser, but am not sure
:12:59. > :13:02.that is how the SNP view that scenario. I think the SNP's concern
:13:03. > :13:05.would be more giving the Conservatives another boost when
:13:06. > :13:10.they have had a boost, as has been widely covered in the election last
:13:11. > :13:14.week will stop it is fascinating how political tribalism works, but I
:13:15. > :13:18.suspect that Labour, now that it is no longer a threat in the eyes of
:13:19. > :13:22.the SNP, would be considered a preferable choice. So it comes down
:13:23. > :13:28.to the Labour candidates. That is a crowded field. I think Ken Macintosh
:13:29. > :13:33.is probably in with a good shout. Again, now disrespected Ken, but he
:13:34. > :13:38.is very mild mannered and perhaps there is the perception he would
:13:39. > :13:41.give the SNP are slightly easier ride. Johann Lamont is a former
:13:42. > :13:49.leader, obviously skilled in the cut and thrust of political debate and
:13:50. > :13:54.might be more assertive. Severin, who would you like to see in the
:13:55. > :13:59.role? Someone who could be ambassador for the parliament and
:14:00. > :14:05.make take on a form of reform for the parliament? Someone who has
:14:06. > :14:09.Johann Lamont's skill set because she has had more senior roles in her
:14:10. > :14:12.recent political past. There is a lot of talk in Holyrood about
:14:13. > :14:16.whether or not actually, since she stopped being the Scottish Labour
:14:17. > :14:22.leader, she has developed a better relationship with more SNP MSPs,
:14:23. > :14:28.more collegiate behind-the-scenes. Ken Macintosh is seen as... Very
:14:29. > :14:31.particular in his politics and perhaps more tribal. One of the
:14:32. > :14:34.things we have to look for is someone who has the ability to be
:14:35. > :14:39.able to manage different groups and different interests and also
:14:40. > :14:41.competing egos. With him Johann Lamont would have more experience
:14:42. > :14:51.doing that as a former party leader. David, we are hearing about
:14:52. > :14:55.reforming Parliament, from Nicola Sturgeon. We heard from the
:14:56. > :14:59.Conservatives wanting a parliament with teeth, and Labour as well. What
:15:00. > :15:06.do you think the priorities are for the new residing officer --
:15:07. > :15:11.presiding Officer? It will be looking at restoring more
:15:12. > :15:14.of a balance within Scottish Parliament after five years of a
:15:15. > :15:19.majority government and I think there is a broad consensus that the
:15:20. > :15:27.Holyrood parliament work as well as it could when it had the overall
:15:28. > :15:32.majority, like the 2007 Parliament. Something to consolidate that and
:15:33. > :15:40.keep it on track. The outgoing presiding officer, Tricia Marwick,
:15:41. > :15:44.tried that, inspired by the select committee system in the House of
:15:45. > :15:49.Commons. That is a good model and is one that allows SNPs from all
:15:50. > :15:54.parties to carve out an alternative career path but it does mean they
:15:55. > :15:59.have to focus on being ministers. Away from Parliament to Bute House
:16:00. > :16:05.and government, Nicola Sturgeon was talking about splitting up John
:16:06. > :16:07.Swinney's roll, having two separate finance and economy briefs.
:16:08. > :16:12.It is an important decision and it is pretty inevitable, even though
:16:13. > :16:17.fact Scotland has its own tax and welfare powers coming on and also
:16:18. > :16:20.the finance secretary in future is going to have more work to do trying
:16:21. > :16:25.to build consensus around the Budget, giving they have the tiny
:16:26. > :16:31.shortfall of two seats of a majority. She is candid in
:16:32. > :16:35.explaining that actually, the Scottish economy is having a rough
:16:36. > :16:39.patch at the moment so there is a lot of serious headwind to push
:16:40. > :16:45.through. Implement figures are not looking good and also the GDP
:16:46. > :16:48.numbers for Scotland are not as healthy as the UK level, despite the
:16:49. > :16:53.billions borrowed to invest in Scottish services.
:16:54. > :16:56.Thank you both very much for joining me from Edinburgh.
:16:57. > :16:59.Highlands: Scotland's Wild Heart is a new BBC TV series that tracks
:17:00. > :17:03.the seasons and tells the story of the people who live in and shape
:17:04. > :17:04.some of the country's most spectacular landscapes.
:17:05. > :17:07.A surprising, shocking element of the series is footage showing
:17:08. > :17:10.a bull seal eating a seal pup - the first time that kind
:17:11. > :17:13.The cameraman who filmed that has been telling our reporter
:17:14. > :17:16.Huw Williams about the making of the series, and you may find
:17:17. > :17:35.Spring is the busiest time for the animals in the valley. Brown hares,
:17:36. > :17:39.curlews and stoats are all getting ready for the reading season.
:17:40. > :17:43.People sometimes forget what is on their own doorstep and through this
:17:44. > :17:47.series you will reason is he/she is I think you would describe as iconic
:17:48. > :17:57.as people would like to see when they go to the Highlands. Fantastic
:17:58. > :18:02.birds like the golden Eagle, ospreys, otters, dolphins and seals
:18:03. > :18:07.and there is that pressure as well because when it is on your doorstep
:18:08. > :18:14.you need to do it justice and show it off at its best. I think we have
:18:15. > :18:18.managed to do that. For me, it is always about the wildlife- watching
:18:19. > :18:21.birds and animals when I was young and I got into photography. I
:18:22. > :18:27.actually begin a press photographer after that and then kind of went
:18:28. > :18:30.full circle when I discovered my passion for wildlife again and I
:18:31. > :18:34.wanted to do camera work rather than photography. Already pregnant with
:18:35. > :18:44.kittens, this female is looking for a comfortable nest site, away from
:18:45. > :18:49.predators. She will either build a dre from twigs and leaves or use an
:18:50. > :18:56.uninhabited tree. You have got to have that tenacity
:18:57. > :18:59.and drive to see it out, when you are in a situation when the wildlife
:19:00. > :19:07.isn't behaving in the way you would hope and you have to sit with it. It
:19:08. > :19:09.becomes a very much team effort with researchers and producers are aiming
:19:10. > :19:15.for the same thing. Leaving her offspring alone like
:19:16. > :19:20.this seems like a high risk G. But the mother needs to feed. --
:19:21. > :19:25.strategy. The youngster is to young to run away from danger though
:19:26. > :19:31.hiding is the only option. We see some lovely footage of roe
:19:32. > :19:38.deer in the spring film and that is a very sensitive girl who have got
:19:39. > :19:41.her fawn in the grass. The cameramen wouldn't have got that footage if
:19:42. > :19:45.you didn't know what he was doing and he was sensitive and moved
:19:46. > :19:53.slowly so he built up those kind of skills.
:19:54. > :20:06.Cannibalism. The other netball is feasting on the -- the dominant bull
:20:07. > :20:10.is feasting on the carcass of a pup. This strange behaviour is a recent
:20:11. > :20:15.discovery. It probably is quite shocking for us
:20:16. > :20:21.because we associate seals with being quite... Certainly perhaps,
:20:22. > :20:27.cute with the big black eyes, seeing them behave like this is quite
:20:28. > :20:32.jarring but it is unique and unusual footage and it is treated very much
:20:33. > :20:35.like that in the film, where the footage speaks for itself and we
:20:36. > :20:40.don't embellish or sensationalise it. We kind of alludes to why that
:20:41. > :20:46.behaviour might be happening but it is such rarely seen behaviour that
:20:47. > :20:52.it is best guessing at the moment. 50 miles beyond the forest, a pair
:20:53. > :21:00.of special highland birds have already built a nest.
:21:01. > :21:12.They are dippers. Birds that are marvellously adapted for life in
:21:13. > :21:16.this fast changing environment. Britain's only aquatic songbird,
:21:17. > :21:20.dippers have waterproof plumage to keep them dry and long, flexible
:21:21. > :21:25.feet for gripping rocks. A lot of the species in the
:21:26. > :21:30.programme are quite rare and there is a responsibility not to encroach
:21:31. > :21:34.but I think I would rather people went out and see them for
:21:35. > :21:38.themselves. It is great for me to film it but there is nothing like
:21:39. > :21:42.coming and watching wildlife yourself and I would hope that
:21:43. > :21:44.people would still have a sense of awe and wonder when they go and see
:21:45. > :21:49.Let's have a look at some of the issues making the news tonight.
:21:50. > :21:51.I'm joined by the playwright Alan Bissett and by the political
:21:52. > :22:02.Good evening and thank you for joining. Let's pick up on the
:22:03. > :22:07.discussion we were having about the oath taking in Parliament tomorrow.
:22:08. > :22:11.What is your view on that? I think it makes sense and in a modern
:22:12. > :22:15.democracy the idea that elected representatives have to swear an
:22:16. > :22:19.oath of allegiance to the Queen or they don't get to take up the seat
:22:20. > :22:23.doesn't make sense to me and no matter what political party you are
:22:24. > :22:27.in the idea that you are representing the Scottish people and
:22:28. > :22:31.you take your mandate from the Scottish people it is difficult to
:22:32. > :22:35.challenge that. It is something that would modernise the Parliament. Do
:22:36. > :22:40.you think there should be a choice for MSP two with Mac should they be
:22:41. > :22:51.allowed to swear the oath or take it from other people? -- for MSPs? Yes,
:22:52. > :22:55.I do. I would imagine for some people it would feel quite nice to
:22:56. > :22:58.pledge allegiance but for others it is a betrayal of the political
:22:59. > :23:03.principles and it is unfair to ask them to do that. 15 or 20 years ago,
:23:04. > :23:09.when the Scottish Socialist party had six MSPs and everyone of them a
:23:10. > :23:15.Republican, they were in an extreme situation where they had to pledge
:23:16. > :23:18.allegiance to the Queen while raising a fist to show that they
:23:19. > :23:24.didn't back what they were doing so the they could take the option away.
:23:25. > :23:28.What do you think, Katie? I think lots of good things don't make much
:23:29. > :23:33.sense and when we modernise sometimes we miss what we have lost.
:23:34. > :23:37.Sometimes people should maybe have the option but I actually think it
:23:38. > :23:42.is much better if everybody does the same thing. This is the argument we
:23:43. > :23:45.will have every time there is a new Scottish parliament and nothing will
:23:46. > :23:57.be done. I think it is a perfectly nice thing to do and the Queen is a
:23:58. > :24:01.nonpolitical unifier and she is a symbol of something that is old and
:24:02. > :24:05.traditional and I think most people... From the opinion polls,
:24:06. > :24:11.most people still approve of her assertion we should keep going. I
:24:12. > :24:17.suppose if it wasn't the Queen it would be a president, you have to
:24:18. > :24:24.have a representative of the people? There has to be a representative in
:24:25. > :24:29.place but I wouldn't necessarily agree with Katie that the Queen is a
:24:30. > :24:32.unifying figure. I think she is a political figure and we see various
:24:33. > :24:36.examples of that. It isn't necessarily the case that there are
:24:37. > :24:40.numerous people in Scotland who are comfortable with the idea of the
:24:41. > :24:43.representatives swearing allegiance to the Queen so I didn't see it as
:24:44. > :24:46.unifying. I think the Queen is the least
:24:47. > :24:51.physical figure and the notion they should wear to the Scottish people,
:24:52. > :24:58.the phrasing has become degraded. That is what we are.
:24:59. > :25:02.That doesn't fit, to be also. Whatever we do people will be
:25:03. > :25:04.unhappy and the status quo is the best we will get.
:25:05. > :25:09.We will see what happens tomorrow. In Westminster, reverberations from
:25:10. > :25:13.the election were being felt and MPs were turning their attention to the
:25:14. > :25:20.European Union referendum. A rerun of reject fear from the
:25:21. > :25:24.Prime Minister will not win the European referendum. Stories of war,
:25:25. > :25:29.genocide and economic crashes are not in keeping with making a
:25:30. > :25:32.positive case for the EU. Can the Secretary of State tell the house
:25:33. > :25:36.when we will hear a positive case for remaining in the EU?
:25:37. > :25:44.When will we hear it, Katie? I think we would be went. The EU
:25:45. > :25:48.debate has become so polarised and such nonsensical stuff is set on
:25:49. > :25:51.both sides it is impossible for anybody to make up their minds.
:25:52. > :25:59.Project fear worked well in the Indian referendum so -- independence
:26:00. > :26:02.referendum so I think people will carry on doing it.
:26:03. > :26:06.You were a prominent campaigner in the independence referendum so a
:26:07. > :26:13.sense of deja vu? Yes. It is often how it works. Use
:26:14. > :26:16.fear as a tactic to avoid encouraging people to take a chance
:26:17. > :26:21.or ushering in a new type of politics. You spray the idea of risk
:26:22. > :26:26.all over the place and that was the tactic during the referendum. It
:26:27. > :26:31.worked to the extent that it won the referendum but it also exposed the
:26:32. > :26:34.structure and I think it will be very difficult in future for a
:26:35. > :26:40.campaign to operate on that basis without people going, here we go
:26:41. > :26:44.again. It gets people's backs up. It does. I think there are a lot of
:26:45. > :26:48.people who feel they are told to feel afraid because of an agenda and
:26:49. > :26:51.that was 100% the case. Katie, do you think that means they
:26:52. > :26:59.get voters backs up? I don't think it does. I think it
:27:00. > :27:04.makes people think. It would be better to have a positive case for
:27:05. > :27:08.coming out and staying in. I don't think it gets people's backs up. I
:27:09. > :27:13.think it gets people thinking and occasionally people will say, like
:27:14. > :27:18.the world War three thing, maybe it does annoy them but it does work.
:27:19. > :27:21.It did work and it is something that politicians are always going to use
:27:22. > :27:27.bullet I think people often want to feel inspired -- but I think people
:27:28. > :27:30.will want to feel inspired. They don't want to be told that if you do
:27:31. > :27:34.this, civilisation is going to collapse.
:27:35. > :27:38.The SNP is on the side of project fear in this referendum and David
:27:39. > :27:44.Mandel in the House of Commons said today that, isn't it ironic they are
:27:45. > :27:49.using the same tactics we used against them when we wanted people
:27:50. > :27:54.to vote the other way in the referendum?
:27:55. > :27:59.I was just going to say, that is what David Mandel three back.
:28:00. > :28:05.Similar arguments are going to be used. -- the real back.
:28:06. > :28:09.Fair enough. I am undecided. It is an unusual position for me because I
:28:10. > :28:14.felt fairly certain during the independence referendum. What is not
:28:15. > :28:21.going to sway me is people telling me that the whole of Britain is
:28:22. > :28:24.going to collapse. I want to hear a positive case for being part of this
:28:25. > :28:28.union and if that can't be made, I will have to re-evaluate my
:28:29. > :28:29.decision. Katie, the electorate now very
:28:30. > :28:36.sophisticated? Yes. Often they don't listen to the
:28:37. > :28:42.politicians and try to find out for themselves. It has never been easier
:28:43. > :28:45.to do that. We will be up to the wire, deciding where to go.
:28:46. > :28:50.I'll be back here at the same time tomorrow.
:28:51. > :29:43.Facing destruction, or business as usual?
:29:44. > :29:45.Where will the BBC be this time tomorrow?
:29:46. > :29:48.The government is to set out its plans to change the way it's run.
:29:49. > :29:51.If it didn't already exist you wouldn't invent it,