:00:00. > :00:08.Have researchers finally worked out why so many people in Glasgow
:00:09. > :00:26.are dying younger than folk in the rest of the UK?
:00:27. > :00:34.Life expectancy is lower in Glasgow, compared to other cities like it.
:00:35. > :00:37.But have governments since the war created the conditions
:00:38. > :00:47.take a tumble once more, so is the water of life
:00:48. > :00:59.It's commonly known as the Glasgow effect.
:01:00. > :01:04.And it's estimated to cause around 5,000 deaths in Scotland a year.
:01:05. > :01:08.But the exact cause of the unusually high death rate remains unclear.
:01:09. > :01:11.This week, new research led by the Glasgow Centre
:01:12. > :01:15.for Population Health claims to have identified a key factor -
:01:16. > :01:19.UK Government policy stretching back to the 1940s.
:01:20. > :01:21.In a moment we'll hear from the author of the report,
:01:22. > :01:24.but first, let's take a look at why Glasgow's death rate continues
:01:25. > :01:34.to be higher than other cities just like it.
:01:35. > :01:39.Glasgow is a place of reinvention, of change in the face of immense
:01:40. > :01:45.challenge. This was the second city of the Empire. For decades its
:01:46. > :01:49.skyline was dominated by shipyards and heavy industry. But things
:01:50. > :01:55.change fast. After the war, many of those shipyards closed and jobs were
:01:56. > :01:58.lost. Hundreds of workers marched in Whitehall, brandishing the demand of
:01:59. > :02:02.the must be no more shipyard closures on the Clyde. The high-rise
:02:03. > :02:07.buildings went up, and slums came down. The Gorbals were once
:02:08. > :02:11.notorious about housing, but thousands of homes here and in other
:02:12. > :02:14.parts of the city were bulldozed, within tyre community is moving out
:02:15. > :02:21.of Glasgow to the new tyrants. Today, Glasgow has a higher death
:02:22. > :02:26.rate in places like it elsewhere in the UK. It is what is known as the
:02:27. > :02:30.Glasgow effect, and its exact cause is a mystery. But now, for the first
:02:31. > :02:36.time, a huge research project suggests decisions by suggestive --
:02:37. > :02:40.successive governments meeting blame. Including policy from the
:02:41. > :02:45.1950s to move selected parts of the population out of the city. The
:02:46. > :02:50.response from local Government in the 1980s diverted funds away from
:02:51. > :02:54.the urban centre, inviting further on a vulnerable population. And the
:02:55. > :02:56.effects are still being felt today. Researchers say the rate of
:02:57. > :03:02.premature deaths is 30 present higher in Glasgow when the city is
:03:03. > :03:05.compared with the likes of Manchester and Liverpool, places
:03:06. > :03:09.with a similar history of deindustrialisation and poverty, but
:03:10. > :03:14.where slum clearance and demolition was on a smaller scale. And it is
:03:15. > :03:19.not just poor people whose lives are blighted. The Glasgow effect appears
:03:20. > :03:23.to impact across the social spectrum, affecting people in
:03:24. > :03:27.middle-class neighbourhoods as well. But these gaping health inequalities
:03:28. > :03:30.are not just confined to Glasgow and its surrounding area. Scotland
:03:31. > :03:34.itself has the lowest life expectancies in Western Europe, and
:03:35. > :03:40.there is a huge gulf in life expectancy between rich and poor. It
:03:41. > :03:41.is to blame for at least 5000 deaths every year, and there is little sign
:03:42. > :03:44.that time is a healer. A little earlier tonight
:03:45. > :03:47.I spoke to David Walsh from the Glasgow Centre
:03:48. > :03:58.for Population Health and one David, explain what you have found.
:03:59. > :04:04.Why are so many people in Glasgow still dying young? A really
:04:05. > :04:07.important point to make is that a huge part of the explanation in
:04:08. > :04:12.terms of why health is poor in Glasgow is about poverty and
:04:13. > :04:15.deprivation. The other drivers of poorer health in any society, and
:04:16. > :04:18.Glasgow has the highest levels of deprivation of any Scottish city.
:04:19. > :04:22.What the research has shown is that even for those high levels of
:04:23. > :04:25.deprivation it has worse health than it should have. Research a few years
:04:26. > :04:31.ago should be premature mortality was about 30 present higher than in
:04:32. > :04:35.comparatively deprived cities like Manchester and Liverpool and
:04:36. > :04:38.Belfast. There has been a lot of hypothesising around that, a lot of
:04:39. > :04:42.speculation. We have tried to put an end to the speculation by producing
:04:43. > :04:45.an evidence -based assessment of all the research that has been done.
:04:46. > :04:52.From that we have created a set of what we call rather grandiosely, and
:04:53. > :04:57.explanatory model. What are they explanations for this? It is a
:04:58. > :05:00.complex picture but in large part it points to a series of historical
:05:01. > :05:06.factors, processes and decisions which have had an adverse effect on
:05:07. > :05:10.Glasgow's population, making it more vulnerable to the main drivers of
:05:11. > :05:12.poor health, poverty and deprivation, and therefore resulting
:05:13. > :05:19.in worse health than in these comparatively deprived cities. You
:05:20. > :05:23.looked at post-war policies. We know that Glasgow has heavy industry, it
:05:24. > :05:26.had slums for many years, the slums were cleared after the war, people
:05:27. > :05:31.moved to new estates. Often people moved outside of the city. What
:05:32. > :05:35.impact that that process has on the people who left and the people left
:05:36. > :05:38.behind? There are many different factors in this story. That
:05:39. > :05:42.particular one relates to Scottish office regional policy in the
:05:43. > :05:46.post-war period. This is new evidence that we included in this
:05:47. > :05:49.report undertaken by colleagues, and this is based on previously
:05:50. > :05:54.unavailable material obtained under the 30 year rule. What it points to
:05:55. > :06:01.is a recognition within the Scottish office that of the challenges facing
:06:02. > :06:04.the city, they were unsure that local Government would be able to
:06:05. > :06:08.deal with the processes, the problems. Instead they embarked on a
:06:09. > :06:13.series of policies which we could only describe as in effect, writing
:06:14. > :06:16.off the city. The designated Glasgow to be a declining city, and instead
:06:17. > :06:21.focus was on growth away from Glasgow. As part of that process,
:06:22. > :06:27.the new town zebra built to deal with the population over spill, not
:06:28. > :06:30.everyone could move to the new towns, you have to have a trade and
:06:31. > :06:34.the skill and the targeted younger families with children. If you fast
:06:35. > :06:37.forward to 1981 census and look at the social class composition of the
:06:38. > :06:44.new towns computer Glasgow, were different. Much lower numbers of
:06:45. > :06:46.people of so-called lower class. In Liverpool, the new towns of the bill
:06:47. > :06:51.to deal with that city's problems, it was the same. But the key point
:06:52. > :06:55.is that they continued even though they were aware of the detrimental
:06:56. > :07:01.effect it was having on the city and its population. And the continued
:07:02. > :07:05.for several decades. And the effect of that would be the Glasgow was
:07:06. > :07:07.poor, it was deprived, it became more poor and more deprived over
:07:08. > :07:12.time, nothing was done to address that? Yes, and the point is that
:07:13. > :07:15.although levels of income -based poverty were still similar in the
:07:16. > :07:21.cities, the conditions that people living in in terms of higher levels
:07:22. > :07:25.of overcrowding, in terms of worse housing conditions, in terms of the
:07:26. > :07:28.fact that the sections of the population that had been moved out
:07:29. > :07:33.of the city, all conspired to make the remaining population much more
:07:34. > :07:37.vulnerable. Is it fair to blame governments for what was a crisis
:07:38. > :07:43.right at the heart of Glasgow? Heavy industry was dying, the shipbuilding
:07:44. > :07:46.industry was dying. The reality was that Glasgow was facing an
:07:47. > :07:51.existential crisis itself will stop is it fair to say the Government
:07:52. > :07:56.were responsible for adding to that, or is it that they did not address
:07:57. > :07:59.those issues properly. ? There were huge problems facing the city.
:08:00. > :08:04.Problem is that the political decisions that were taken put
:08:05. > :08:08.Glasgow at a disadvantage. As I said, be prioritised areas away from
:08:09. > :08:12.Glasgow and that had a detrimental effect on the population. The main
:08:13. > :08:17.lesson from this research and other research is that political decisions
:08:18. > :08:21.matter for population health. What, then, can be done to turn this
:08:22. > :08:25.around? We still have woeful health inequalities in Glasgow, terrible
:08:26. > :08:29.health record, lots of people dying young. Your report says that
:08:30. > :08:36.economic overseas matter. What should be done now? That isn't being
:08:37. > :08:39.done? The point of the report was first of all to highlight and
:08:40. > :08:44.identify the underlying causes of this excess level of mortality, but
:08:45. > :08:49.not to stop there, to produce a set of recommendations that could be
:08:50. > :08:51.acted on. There are 26 specific recommendations aimed at national
:08:52. > :08:55.Government, Scottish Government and local Government. They are set in
:08:56. > :08:58.the context of the fact that the important things that are identified
:08:59. > :09:04.from this report in terms of vulnerability, inequality, poverty,
:09:05. > :09:08.are closely intertwined. All the recommendations are set around that
:09:09. > :09:12.backdrop. And we have specific recommendations for Scottish
:09:13. > :09:15.Government in terms of how, using current and future powers, they
:09:16. > :09:20.could narrow income inequalities which would have an impact in
:09:21. > :09:23.narrowing health inequalities, a set of recommendations around addressing
:09:24. > :09:26.poverty with existing powers. Some of these echo recommendations from
:09:27. > :09:31.the Joseph Rowntree foundation. And a set of recommendations around how
:09:32. > :09:34.we can help most vulnerable in society. Partly this relates to
:09:35. > :09:37.those who are now living with the consequences of these historical
:09:38. > :09:41.vulnerabilities, but would also point to the importance of dealing
:09:42. > :09:44.with possible future vulnerabilities in terms of, for example, the UK
:09:45. > :09:46.Government's so-called welfare reform.
:09:47. > :09:49.Joining me now to discuss this is Bob Doris from the SNP,
:09:50. > :09:52.Anas Sarwar from Scottish Labour and in our Edinburgh studio
:09:53. > :09:56.is the Scottish Conservative MSP Douglas Ross.
:09:57. > :10:06.Thanks for joining us. Douglas Ross, we heard there that governments
:10:07. > :10:10.since the war created the conditions for the health crisis we have in
:10:11. > :10:13.Glasgow. The Conservatives have been empowered post-war for most of that
:10:14. > :10:19.time. That would make your party largely responsible. And I wrong?
:10:20. > :10:23.Adding the study has been extensive and it is useful to look into the
:10:24. > :10:27.past to see what has happened, but I don't think anyone would expect me
:10:28. > :10:32.as a new young MSP to explain decisions taken decades ago. Quite
:10:33. > :10:35.often we say, I was a child from these decisions were made, actually
:10:36. > :10:38.my parents were children when these decisions were made. We have to look
:10:39. > :10:43.to the future rather than the past, because of the religion to the past
:10:44. > :10:45.we would say that the local Government which was Labour
:10:46. > :10:49.dominated was also responsible, because the report highlighted that
:10:50. > :10:53.Labour lead council did not invest in housing, decided to put more
:10:54. > :10:57.money into regeneration in the city centre. I don't think anyone comes
:10:58. > :10:59.out of this well. The important point is to look to the future
:11:00. > :11:04.rather than looking retrospectively at the past. We will do that in a
:11:05. > :11:09.moment, but we have to understand what happened before we can move on,
:11:10. > :11:12.can't we? And what is clear is it is not local Government that was
:11:13. > :11:17.largely responsible. This report says Government wrote off the city,
:11:18. > :11:21.they encouraged businesses and better educated folk to move out,
:11:22. > :11:26.and that is at the heart of why the city is poor and deprived even
:11:27. > :11:29.though. The report also stated that similar cities such as Liverpool and
:11:30. > :11:33.Manchester recovered far quicker, that it was local Government
:11:34. > :11:38.decisions that have a far longer impact on Glasgow itself. But as I
:11:39. > :11:41.said, I think it is a useful piece of research, it is a very extensive
:11:42. > :11:45.piece of research and we should use that moving forward. But those
:11:46. > :11:49.decisions have been taken, the impact has been felt, but the
:11:50. > :11:52.important points are to use the powers in the Scottish Parliament
:11:53. > :11:57.going forward. Let me put this to Anas Sarwar. Labour were in charge
:11:58. > :12:02.for many years in the post-war period. At a national level and here
:12:03. > :12:08.in Glasgow at a local authority level. Does Labour accept any
:12:09. > :12:13.responsibility for what happened here? The first thing to say is that
:12:14. > :12:17.this is a very welcome report and makes clear that unless we are
:12:18. > :12:20.serious about the deprivation gap and serious about the poverty gap we
:12:21. > :12:25.will not be serious about transforming the mortality gap. I
:12:26. > :12:28.can point to positive things that Labour has done to the city of
:12:29. > :12:34.Glasgow, for example the greatest rudest abusive measures taken in the
:12:35. > :12:38.history of Scotland, ?1 billion of housing debt was written off in
:12:39. > :12:41.order to regenerate parts of Glasgow, ?600 million has been
:12:42. > :12:45.invested in education, the tax credit system, the minimum wage. But
:12:46. > :12:49.what is more important rather than going over past arguments is what
:12:50. > :12:53.this report rightly says about what we can do going forward. There are
:12:54. > :12:59.three key recommendations that I fully support that have come from
:13:00. > :13:02.this report. One is how we properly do income and health redistribution.
:13:03. > :13:06.That is why it is right to have a more progressive tax system in
:13:07. > :13:09.Scotland to address these issues, secondly housing which is crucial,
:13:10. > :13:13.and thirdly we have to fund local Government. You have mentioned local
:13:14. > :13:17.Government quite rightly, but it is not right to say we can invest in
:13:18. > :13:22.Glasgow at the same time as cutting Glasgow's budget by ?130 million
:13:23. > :13:27.over the next two years. Bob Doris, your party has been in charge for
:13:28. > :13:31.nine years. Has the SNP even put a dent in the health inequalities we
:13:32. > :13:35.find in the city? I have to say there has been some progress, but we
:13:36. > :13:38.have to do far better. It is interesting to give Labour and the
:13:39. > :13:42.Conservatives blaming each other for which UK Government wrote off
:13:43. > :13:46.Glasgow is being expendable within the UK, which is absolutely
:13:47. > :13:52.shocking. I agree with Anas Sarwar in that as far as we should improve
:13:53. > :13:56.matters and work in partnership to take Glasgow forward. I can point to
:13:57. > :14:00.improvements in relation to heart disease, in relation to stroke
:14:01. > :14:04.prevention in relation to cancer detection and improvement. But here
:14:05. > :14:09.is the big issue, when you improve these things by and large, the
:14:10. > :14:10.middle classes tend to improve at a greater rate than the working
:14:11. > :14:20.classes, and What are you going to do with the
:14:21. > :14:23.powers at your disposal in the Scottish Parliament to turn these
:14:24. > :14:28.problems around? I have to say there are a few things we are doing. The
:14:29. > :14:32.first thing we are doing, given income and equality is a huge driver
:14:33. > :14:35.for health and equality. We are spending ?is 00 million every year
:14:36. > :14:42.putting money back in fact pockets of the poorest people in the
:14:43. > :14:47.Scottish society, attacked by UK wealthy reform -- ?100 million.
:14:48. > :14:51.Doing dramatic investment in health care, hoping to double childcare
:14:52. > :14:56.provision. That long list s it enough? Bob talks about Labour
:14:57. > :15:00.verses Tory. Labour was in Government for 13 years, the SNP are
:15:01. > :15:02.in Government for nearly ten years, they cannot run away from their
:15:03. > :15:05.responsibility. In terms of the powers of the Scottish Parliament?
:15:06. > :15:09.The most transformative powers we have are around tax. We can do
:15:10. > :15:14.something different, redistribution of the tax system and around
:15:15. > :15:18.housing, we said we should build near 60,000 new homes in the course
:15:19. > :15:21.of the Parliament. New home building is at the Lows level for a
:15:22. > :15:25.generation. Local government finance, we have to take it
:15:26. > :15:29.seriously f we are recognising Glasgow has a specific challenge and
:15:30. > :15:32.problem, we not at the same time say Glasgow should get the poorest deal
:15:33. > :15:37.of any local authority and be forced to make ?130 million of cuts over
:15:38. > :15:41.the next two years. That's pound to affect the most vulnerable people in
:15:42. > :15:45.our communities. Let me put this to Douglas Ross. You won't raise income
:15:46. > :15:49.tax in the Scottish Parliament and making cuts to welfare at
:15:50. > :15:54.Westminster level, that's a recipe for trouble s it not in Glasgow We
:15:55. > :15:57.have seen so far politicians wanted to atact other political parties.
:15:58. > :16:03.Unfortunately we are maybe too close to an election to get away from
:16:04. > :16:07.that. Do you have solutions? I have. This report has highlighted serious
:16:08. > :16:10.problems. Nicola Sturegon is saying she wants parties to deal with these
:16:11. > :16:13.problems. It is not saying that Labour has the answers or the SNP or
:16:14. > :16:17.Conservatives have the answers but we have said during our campaign
:16:18. > :16:20.that we want to see increased childcare provision, not at three
:16:21. > :16:23.and four-year-olds that the SNP want but for one and twol-year-olds
:16:24. > :16:28.because there is already a gap before they get to three and
:16:29. > :16:32.grierlds. Funding going into education, all these are point, and
:16:33. > :16:36.it is important we twoshgt A key point in working together is - I'm
:16:37. > :16:39.in the arguing with the SNP. I think what Nicola Sturegon said today is
:16:40. > :16:43.an opportunity for us. We would support the SNP if they came forward
:16:44. > :16:48.with proposals on significant new house building across Scotland. We
:16:49. > :16:52.would support the SNP if they rightfully decide to do something
:16:53. > :16:58.meaningful about the council tax reform and support the SNP? This
:16:59. > :17:02.progressive... The specifics say, make the reduction of income and
:17:03. > :17:07.wealth inequalities the central objective economic policy. Are you
:17:08. > :17:11.prepared to do that? So that is That's why we have progressive
:17:12. > :17:14.taxation, ?2 billion to invest in public services but we are going to
:17:15. > :17:21.launch a fairer Scotland stwreedge and have an income and pfrty
:17:22. > :17:26.commission. With you have ruled out higher rates of income tax Let me
:17:27. > :17:29.finish the point. We are going to have an income and equality
:17:30. > :17:32.commission, with and poverty advisor. We are going to follow all
:17:33. > :17:36.the recommendations they have already made and we are going to
:17:37. > :17:44.drive forward change. That's partnership working. Can I also say
:17:45. > :17:49.he is saying to look for consensus so the ?750 million Scottish
:17:50. > :17:53.attainment fund targeted the most deprived areas of Glasgow and across
:17:54. > :17:57.Scotland. That should be welcomed by the Labour Party. Childcare for
:17:58. > :18:00.vulnerable three and four-year-olds, that can be welcomed. Hopefully
:18:01. > :18:06.there is a will the we can agree on. The SNP won the mandate and let's
:18:07. > :18:12.get together and deliver T You proposed tax rises in your manifesto
:18:13. > :18:16.and we saw how voters thought about that. It is about being hob host.
:18:17. > :18:20.You cannot do more with less muvenlt austerity is not the answer, more
:18:21. > :18:24.cuts is not the answer. Doing nothing about progressive taxation
:18:25. > :18:28.is not the answer. We can do things different in in Scotland. We have
:18:29. > :18:32.the powers. The SNP have a strong mandate to do things differently and
:18:33. > :18:42.we would support them if they came forward with... The the SNP policy
:18:43. > :18:45.policy is just a platform. We seek to work in partnership across the
:18:46. > :18:49.parties to deliver for the people of Scotland to tackle the Glasgow
:18:50. > :18:53.effect. There we must leave T thank you very much indeed.
:18:54. > :19:00.-- there we must leave it. Next
:19:01. > :19:02.The amount of whisky exported from Scotland fell last year
:19:03. > :19:04.and so did the value of overseas sales.
:19:05. > :19:06.The industry has blamed the decline on the instability
:19:07. > :19:08.of worldwide markets but says there are some positive signs.
:19:09. > :19:11.The export figures were released on the day Scotland's latest
:19:12. > :19:24.We probably make about a million litres of spirit every year. We
:19:25. > :19:32.aren't even into the summer season yet but there's in shortage of
:19:33. > :19:38.visitors touring the Glengoyne distillery. Easily accessible from
:19:39. > :19:41.Glasgow, here it sees more than 70,000 visitors a year but the
:19:42. > :19:47.industry figures announced aren't as buoyant. Last year's whiskey exports
:19:48. > :19:52.totalled more than ?3.8 billion. A touch down on the previous year.
:19:53. > :19:55.Scotch is down almost 3%. Single malts are up, though, now comprising
:19:56. > :20:00.almost one-quarter of the export market. Good news for malt but the
:20:01. > :20:04.general slowdown is being laid at the door of some foreign countries
:20:05. > :20:09.slowing down themselves. Really it does depend on global economic
:20:10. > :20:15.conditions. And, for example, Brazil, a market that has gone into
:20:16. > :20:19.a pretty steep recession, one-third of the decline in exports is
:20:20. > :20:24.explained by what happens in Brazil. So really it depends on the global
:20:25. > :20:27.conditions of particular countries rather than anything more broad.
:20:28. > :20:31.Here they are saying they are bucking the trend in some respects,
:20:32. > :20:35.as last year was their best ever but like others they are benefitting for
:20:36. > :20:39.the growing appetite for malt whiskey and are keeping one-third of
:20:40. > :20:48.what is produced in the skills for single malt We are a dissers
:20:49. > :20:52.havified company. Malt is the fastest-growing for us in our new
:20:53. > :20:55.distilleries, their sales are up considerably around the world. Blend
:20:56. > :20:59.is more difficult. More competitive. I think that's the case across the
:21:00. > :21:03.industry but by in large we still feel positive about the outlook. In
:21:04. > :21:08.these barrels is the malt whiskey maturing for the future and just how
:21:09. > :21:11.the whiskey industry does in the future is something of importance
:21:12. > :21:15.far beyond just those who are involved in the industry. Without
:21:16. > :21:20.whiskey, the UK balance of payments would have been significantly worse.
:21:21. > :21:25.As bad as it is. But last year it would have been significantly worse.
:21:26. > :21:30.It is a very substantial earner of foreign currency which is very
:21:31. > :21:34.important for the UK economy. A crop of new distilleries springing
:21:35. > :21:40.up are hoping to bring in even more foreign currency. Perhaps inspired
:21:41. > :21:45.by the microbrewery trend and Scottish begin, in years to come
:21:46. > :21:51.there will be even more single malts to savour. This distillery has just
:21:52. > :21:56.opened and in a decade from now it hopes to tempt with something rather
:21:57. > :22:00.fragrant. Flavour is the important thing. We are working hard on
:22:01. > :22:04.flavours, bringing special flavours, something really nice and it is a
:22:05. > :22:10.bit like a walk in a garden, lots of flowers. And for those of you keener
:22:11. > :22:13.on the bottom line than top notes, with while the whiskey industry last
:22:14. > :22:18.year still skipped industry for export at the rate of 34 bottles
:22:19. > :22:21.every second. So in the time you have been watching this piece,
:22:22. > :22:22.almost 6,000 bottles of whiskey are heading abroad.
:22:23. > :22:25.A lot of whiskey. Joining me now for further
:22:26. > :22:32.discussion of the news is journalist and broadcaster,
:22:33. > :22:40.Ruth Wishart and Businessman Which heard whiskey exports are down
:22:41. > :22:45.yet we are still producing something like 1 billion a year. Do you see
:22:46. > :22:50.the glass half full, half empty? I'm on the half full side on whisky. You
:22:51. > :22:56.have to recognise that export has doubled over the seven years, up to
:22:57. > :22:59.2014. What we have seen recently, is foreign exchange affect. The pound
:23:00. > :23:04.is strengthened by 7% against the euro. Half the whiskey ex#130r9s go
:23:05. > :23:09.to the EU and they decline by 2.5%. Our exports to the US grew because
:23:10. > :23:13.the pound we cannened delens the $. A will the is exchange rate effects
:23:14. > :23:24.and fundamentally an I credibly important and well-positioned
:23:25. > :23:32.industry. Ruth, we know -- -- the pound declined against the Vlaar.
:23:33. > :23:34.And it is fundamentally an incredibly important,
:23:35. > :23:40.well-positioned industry. Ruth, do we place too much reliance
:23:41. > :23:44.on big ticket industries like oil and Wickesy If you remember at the
:23:45. > :23:48.time of the referendum it was how much oil and whiskey mattered as
:23:49. > :23:51.well. Certainly if there is another referendum in the foreseeable
:23:52. > :23:57.future, that argument is going to have to be reinterrogated in some
:23:58. > :24:02.detail. I don't actually think - I agree with Kevin, unusually... I
:24:03. > :24:06.think whiskey has had a slate wobble but in the context of the EU
:24:07. > :24:10.referendum, mainland Europe, without the UK, is our biggest market. So I
:24:11. > :24:14.mean, I think the whiskey industry would take a very big interest in
:24:15. > :24:17.that. In the future we have all of the things we said about the
:24:18. > :24:21.Scottish economy, in the last election, it was the last election.
:24:22. > :24:26.We used to be bigger on manufacturing, and a big industrial
:24:27. > :24:30.nation. Things move on, we have gaming bioteches, renewables.
:24:31. > :24:33.Tomorrow's financial picture, tomorrow's GDP picture will look
:24:34. > :24:37.different. Let's move on and talk about the First Minister, we have a
:24:38. > :24:41.new one, oh, it is Nicola Sturegon again. Here she is speaking to
:24:42. > :24:44.Parliament today During the election campaign, I described the SNP
:24:45. > :24:48.manifesto as my application for the job of First Minister and the
:24:49. > :24:51.election allowed the people of Scotland to deliver their verdict.
:24:52. > :24:56.The SNP increased our constituency vote share. We won a record number
:24:57. > :25:00.of constituency seats and became the first party in the devolution era to
:25:01. > :25:06.secure more than 1 million constituency votes. So, there is no
:25:07. > :25:10.doubt that the SNP has a mandate to govern, and I have a mandate to
:25:11. > :25:15.continue as the fist minister of our country. I hope that Parliament will
:25:16. > :25:20.recognise that clear mandate today. There has There has been a lot of
:25:21. > :25:22.talk of mandates in the days following the election and again
:25:23. > :25:27.from the First Minister today. The truth is that it is this Parliament
:25:28. > :25:31.which holds the real, unchallenged mandate, to decide on our First
:25:32. > :25:35.Minister, on our Cabinet Secretaries, the ministerial team
:25:36. > :25:39.and once than is done, to scrutinise their decisions, their actions and
:25:40. > :25:46.the legislative programme they bring forth, to question and to challenge,
:25:47. > :25:50.to argue and to offer alternatives, to promote better governance in this
:25:51. > :25:54.place, not for its own sake but for the people of Scotland. Unusual,
:25:55. > :25:57.Kevin. We saw today an election of the First Minister. You would have
:25:58. > :26:01.thought Nicola Sturegon, having led the biggest party by a mile, into
:26:02. > :26:05.the election, it would be a sort of done deal, but the Parliament still
:26:06. > :26:09.had to go through that? Yes, it is a bit of a formality, isn't it? It was
:26:10. > :26:13.really a coronation today. Quite rightly. The point made about the
:26:14. > :26:19.SNP's mandate is absolutely correct -- you know the Conservatives got
:26:20. > :26:26.36% of the vote and the SNP... ... 22. Of the vote and the SNP on the
:26:27. > :26:29.same basis - well if we are going to play that game, got a declining
:26:30. > :26:32.share of the vote, lost their majority and lost MSPs but
:26:33. > :26:35.nevertheless have a very strong mandate and of course Nicola
:26:36. > :26:39.Sturegon should be First Minister and get to work implementing the
:26:40. > :26:45.manifesto. She talks about the mandate but doesn't have a majority.
:26:46. > :26:49.What sort of majority do you think it'll be, a Parliament of deals You
:26:50. > :26:55.could call it deals or more consensual. Famously the last
:26:56. > :26:59.minority government, the 2007 minority SNP government by common
:27:00. > :27:04.consent did quite well by having to talk to other opposition parties and
:27:05. > :27:07.having to, if you like, do deals. But what if they are doing deals
:27:08. > :27:11.with the Conservatives, a lot of people might be uneasy for that,
:27:12. > :27:15.having voted for the SNP? I can see that, of course, but there is a lot
:27:16. > :27:23.about petro chairmenistry in politics. That first minority
:27:24. > :27:27.Government, Alex Salmond and Annabel Golding got on incredibly W What are
:27:28. > :27:33.you saying I think they share a similar sense of humour, is what I'm
:27:34. > :27:37.trying to say in an odd way. I'm not sure about Ruth Davis son and Nicola
:27:38. > :27:40.Sturegon, I'm not sure if that will work as well. But minority
:27:41. > :27:48.governments are not unhealthy. The Scottish party last time around
:27:49. > :27:53.majority, we saw SNP dominating all the committees. It will have to
:27:54. > :27:56.change. Yes, we know it is a system designed to create minority
:27:57. > :27:58.governments and we saw in the last Parliament the lack of a
:27:59. > :28:03.scrutinising chamber a revising chamber, so in this Parliament I
:28:04. > :28:07.think what we can see is a very healthy process of legislation being
:28:08. > :28:12.debated and scrutinised and improved through that process, as the SNP
:28:13. > :28:16.require, to get some consensus on the policies they want to put
:28:17. > :28:20.forward. Ruth what do you think? Should the party that ends up with
:28:21. > :28:23.the biggest majority be able to get most of its legislation through.
:28:24. > :28:28.What do you think? I do think that, by in large, but I also think it is
:28:29. > :28:32.quite healthy if they are challenged and it is also healthy in my book we
:28:33. > :28:37.started off in 1999 with a rainbow Parliament. The fact we have six
:28:38. > :28:43.grooeps now I think is enormously healthy. They will keep, I hope the
:28:44. > :28:48.SNP Government onnest on the environment and land reform. -- six
:28:49. > :28:52.Greens. Taxation. If you like, taxation. But everyone will have
:28:53. > :28:56.their own pitches to make and in order to get votes through, the SNP
:28:57. > :29:00.government will have to listen as well as led. If you were Nicola
:29:01. > :29:04.Sturegon, Kevin... A great imagination. Would you try to do
:29:05. > :29:07.deals with all the parties or would you say - I'm not going to do deals
:29:08. > :29:12.with the Conservatives, whatever happens, I'm going to lean left? I'm
:29:13. > :29:17.still struggling with the concept of - if I was Nicola Sturegon, forgive
:29:18. > :29:21.me. I think what you have to do is work to pro-Dawes good legislation
:29:22. > :29:24.and that means working with all parties -- produce, and particularly
:29:25. > :29:28.given the SNP's position on tax, how they fought the last election, they
:29:29. > :29:31.are closest to the Conservatives, when it comes to those principles of
:29:32. > :29:36.tax and spend, so of course they need to work with the Conservatives.
:29:37. > :29:39.In a word, what do you expect? Well I expect more consensus than we are
:29:40. > :29:42.perhaps imagining at the moment, because the Scottish Conservatives
:29:43. > :29:45.have distanced themselves some way from the London Conservatives and
:29:46. > :29:50.the SNP and Lib Dems and Greens have lots in common. OK, so, lots of
:29:51. > :29:52.surprises ahead no doubt. Ruth, Kevin thank you both very much
:29:53. > :29:55.indeed. That's it for tonight
:29:56. > :29:57.and for this week. Shelley is back tomorrow. Bye for
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