:00:00. > :00:00.As the war of words at Westminster over immigration intensifies
:00:07. > :00:09.in the European referendum debate, here MSPs overwhelmingly
:00:10. > :00:38.The leaders of all five parties at Holyrood say it's in Scotland's
:00:39. > :00:43.How well does that represent what voters think?
:00:44. > :00:46.And a former radical Islamist says Muslim leaders in Scotland aren't
:00:47. > :01:01.The number of people coming to the UK from within the EU reached
:01:02. > :01:05.record levels last year - 184,000 more people
:01:06. > :01:12.That intensified the war of words between senior Tories,
:01:13. > :01:14.with Boris Johnson saying the situation was "completely
:01:15. > :01:19.Home Office Minister James Brokenshire said leaving the EU
:01:20. > :01:24.The tone at Holyrood, meanwhile, was quite different
:01:25. > :01:28.Just three spoke in favour of leaving and the vote
:01:29. > :01:30.at the end was overwhelmingly in favour of staying.
:01:31. > :01:50.With four weeks until polling day, interest in the EU referendum is
:01:51. > :01:55.revving up. And during a BBC debate in Glasgow tonight this audience of
:01:56. > :02:00.Under-13s wanted their questions and sought. One issue came up more than
:02:01. > :02:06.any other. Well I have a job if I leave the EU? I think you stand a
:02:07. > :02:10.far better chance of a good job, one in which you are not competing with
:02:11. > :02:14.potentially thousands of other Europeans everywhere to actually
:02:15. > :02:20.leave the European Union. We have 2.2 million EU workers here already,
:02:21. > :02:26.they have taken effectively UK jobs. Can I say that, let us imagine that
:02:27. > :02:30.a Boris Johnson dislocated his jaw from overuse and he went to his home
:02:31. > :02:34.Hospital and Oxbridge where 10% of the staff are nurses and doctors
:02:35. > :02:38.from elsewhere in the European Union, do you believe he will tell
:02:39. > :02:42.them he does not want treatment for his job because someone is from
:02:43. > :02:46.Estonia? These are hard-working people who are contributing to this
:02:47. > :02:50.country. It was an argument which also fired up the audience. We have
:02:51. > :02:54.a housing shortage now and the more that we let them, the best houses we
:02:55. > :02:59.will have to host them, so how do you work that out? It is Bonnie that
:03:00. > :03:05.you have a selective memory, just remember how many immigrants like my
:03:06. > :03:11.family have built this nation. -- it is funny that you have a selective
:03:12. > :03:15.memory. But many still are unable to make up their minds. I do not have
:03:16. > :03:19.an issue with admitting that I do not have an idea what to do and I
:03:20. > :03:26.blame you got entirely for that. From undecided -- undecided voter to
:03:27. > :03:30.another, Labour's Neil Findlay abstained today at the vote. I am
:03:31. > :03:34.depressed that the debate, it is appalling.
:03:35. > :03:38.Scotland's Culture Secretary Fiona Hyslop said that the EU was not
:03:39. > :03:42.perfect but that in was better than Howard. Neil Findlay wanted to know
:03:43. > :03:46.how the SNP script that position with its support for Scottish
:03:47. > :03:50.independence. If the Minister could expand on our
:03:51. > :03:56.logic of wanting to be a but good union of 60 million to join a
:03:57. > :04:07.political union of 750 million and if she believes... And if she
:04:08. > :04:14.believes that Scotland would have more influence in that scenario? I
:04:15. > :04:17.think I have just made the case why independent countries, 28 of them in
:04:18. > :04:21.the EU can decide for themselves to be part of a market. If he wants to
:04:22. > :04:26.join with others to take the beauty and Scotland out of the 500 million
:04:27. > :04:31.and he can align himself with Boris Johnson. Sticking with the
:04:32. > :04:36.independence referendum thing, Adam Tomkins of the Conservatives argued
:04:37. > :04:39.the case to remain. These are the values of the union, economic
:04:40. > :04:44.prosperity and security for all. It lies at the heart of our case for a
:04:45. > :04:50.No vote in 2014 as the line-out at the core of a case for a Remains
:04:51. > :04:53.vote next month. But not all Tory support that view and one said
:04:54. > :05:01.Britain must leave the EU to control immigration. I understand other
:05:02. > :05:05.people from other parts of UK want to come here to improve their
:05:06. > :05:09.standard of living, above, this could put unsustainable pressure on
:05:10. > :05:13.our schools, health services and housing.
:05:14. > :05:17.Labour's Elaine Smith against her own party's position, argued for a
:05:18. > :05:23.Brexit. Undoubtably many of my left will
:05:24. > :05:27.vote to remain in the hope that reforms will come. I understand that
:05:28. > :05:31.but with an unelected bureaucracy at its core and the largely decorative
:05:32. > :05:36.parliament, that avoids the reality that the EU structures are so
:05:37. > :05:40.closely bound with capitalism. In the end, Holyrood voted to back
:05:41. > :05:46.Britain's continuing membership of the European Union. That is the view
:05:47. > :05:51.apparently amongst most voters in Scotland. But this referendum is
:05:52. > :05:54.across the UK and both sides have said that before polling day
:05:55. > :05:58.anything could happen. Andrew Black reporting.
:05:59. > :06:01.Joining me now to discuss this are SNP MSP Humza Yousaf,
:06:02. > :06:04.who voted to back a Remain vote, and in our Edinburgh studio
:06:05. > :06:05.is Scottish Conservative MSP Gordon Lindhurst,
:06:06. > :06:16.Welcome to both of you this evening. Gordon, you were one of only eight
:06:17. > :06:24.MSPs who voted against the motion today. Why did you not supported?
:06:25. > :06:30.Let me tell you firstly, I would probably class myself as a reluctant
:06:31. > :06:34.out. I do not believe there is any need for alarmist rhetoric on the
:06:35. > :06:39.subject whatever the voters on the 23rd of June, we will not go off the
:06:40. > :06:45.cliff on the 24th of June. Basically, the European Union is, in
:06:46. > :06:50.my view, an outdated social and economic construct of the 1950s.
:06:51. > :06:56.What we need is a political alliance suitable for the 21st-century. So
:06:57. > :07:01.you would prefer Britain and Scotland to be out of the European
:07:02. > :07:05.Union? Out of the European Union as it is at present, and that is what
:07:06. > :07:11.the option if that is on the table for all of us on the 23rd of June.
:07:12. > :07:17.Humza Yousaf, you and every single one of your SNP colleagues voted to
:07:18. > :07:21.back the Remained motion. Every look at the opinion polls, they suggest
:07:22. > :07:26.only half of the event -- SNP voters actually want to stay in. So who is
:07:27. > :07:30.representing the sizeable number of SNP voters who do not agree with
:07:31. > :07:35.you? I do not know about the poor that you referring to, but I would
:07:36. > :07:40.be relaxed but SNP voters taking a different hue. I will work hard to
:07:41. > :07:47.persuade them otherwise. -- the poll. But what about the opinion
:07:48. > :07:52.polls overall, a third of Scottish waters have said they want to leave
:07:53. > :07:56.and yet, fewer than one out of ten MSPs took that line today. Does it
:07:57. > :08:02.accurately reflect what the voters of Scotland actually think right
:08:03. > :08:05.now? The point is that MSPs will take their own views and speak to
:08:06. > :08:09.their constituents but they will make a reasoned judgment as to what
:08:10. > :08:12.they think other benefits. We need a strong case in the Scottish
:08:13. > :08:16.Parliament today about progressive resin and a positive reason, I think
:08:17. > :08:20.Gordon is right, we did not have the alarmist rhetoric in that debate in
:08:21. > :08:24.Holyrood from either side, it was a positive and progressive argument
:08:25. > :08:29.and I think most is -- MSPs were convinced by that. But it was from
:08:30. > :08:33.the SNP 's, the Lib Dems, the Tories, Labour or the Greens. For
:08:34. > :08:37.the next four weeks we will continue to do that and they will not engage
:08:38. > :08:44.in the scaremongering, hyperbolic negativity that we have seen down
:08:45. > :08:49.south from both sides. Gordon, the big buzzword today was a
:08:50. > :08:52.immigration, it was being debated in Westminster and another at the BBC
:08:53. > :08:56.debate. Everyone was arguing about it. Do you believe there is the same
:08:57. > :09:00.level of concern about immigration here in Scotland as in the rest of
:09:01. > :09:04.the UK? No, I do not think it probably is,
:09:05. > :09:07.that is possible because of the circumstances in Scotland are
:09:08. > :09:13.different. What happened south of the border does affect us in terms
:09:14. > :09:18.of the amount of funding available to Scotland automatically. But I do
:09:19. > :09:26.not think that is the key issue because any nation that is trading
:09:27. > :09:31.as any healthy economic nation will be, it does have migration,
:09:32. > :09:37.immigration and so forth. The question is more forward planning
:09:38. > :09:41.for essential services such as hospitals, schools, roads,
:09:42. > :09:44.infrastructure and the difficulty with trying to do that for
:09:45. > :09:49.governments to meet legitimate expectations of those living in the
:09:50. > :09:54.country if there is no idea of how many people will be coming in or
:09:55. > :09:58.going out. So you agree with your colleague, Margaret Mitchell, who
:09:59. > :10:02.has said that the pressure is unsustainable on schools, the health
:10:03. > :10:05.service, housing, and the impact on pensions, she read all of these
:10:06. > :10:08.things today? That is only one of the aspects that
:10:09. > :10:13.she raised. One of the main things that you talked about which is of
:10:14. > :10:17.concern to myself and others is the fact that by being in the European
:10:18. > :10:22.Union we are tied into an economic trading bloc, which is not growing
:10:23. > :10:27.at the rate of trading blocs in the world are. It is more the positive
:10:28. > :10:30.case that if we were out of the European Union, we could actually go
:10:31. > :10:35.out there and she our opportunities in the world with other nations and
:10:36. > :10:39.make new trading agreements. And a new political alliance with European
:10:40. > :10:43.nations for the sake of peace and stability would be a good thing, it
:10:44. > :10:47.does not need to be along the lines of the current European Union. But
:10:48. > :10:56.the European nations we are dealing with are possibly all modern
:10:57. > :11:01.economic and sound, progressive countries, like our own, and so if
:11:02. > :11:05.the British people decide, the Scottish and the other British
:11:06. > :11:09.people, they decided not want to be in the European Union as it
:11:10. > :11:16.currently these other countries are not going to re-enact... Basically,
:11:17. > :11:22.they will not cut off their nose to spite their face, that is what...
:11:23. > :11:28.Which is exactly, Humza Yousaf, what you were putting before that about
:11:29. > :11:32.Scotland leaving. I would never engage in the
:11:33. > :11:39.hyperbole that if we were to leave that suddenly the sky would fall and
:11:40. > :11:42.the earth would swallow us up. It is much better for Scottish trade to
:11:43. > :11:46.remain within the European Union. Half of our exports go to the EU
:11:47. > :11:50.whether it is whiskey, or many of our seafood. I am not suggesting
:11:51. > :11:55.that they would not go to the EU but would they be under the same
:11:56. > :11:59.agreements, tariffs, free access... I am not convinced. There is a
:12:00. > :12:06.difference of making such an agreement is part of the world's
:12:07. > :12:10.largest trading block. It is clear that those who want to leave the
:12:11. > :12:17.European Union have wanted to bring up a immigration. We have largely
:12:18. > :12:21.avoided that poor debate that we have seen elsewhere. We know that
:12:22. > :12:22.immigrants contribute more than a foot thank you both for that debate
:12:23. > :12:28.this evening. Are Muslim leaders in Scotland doing
:12:29. > :12:31.enough to counter extremism? Not according to one former radical
:12:32. > :12:33.Islamist speaking at Edinburgh University
:12:34. > :12:34.earlier this evening. Dr Tawfik Hamid was
:12:35. > :12:36.invited to Scotland by the Asia Scotland Institute,
:12:37. > :12:38.to offer his insight in to the rising threat of so-called
:12:39. > :12:42.Islamic State and other militant He used to be a member
:12:43. > :12:46.of an extremist Islamic organization in Egypt alongside the man who later
:12:47. > :12:49.became the second in Shortly before we came on air,
:12:50. > :13:06.I spoke to Dr Hamid. Doctor, you were actually recruited
:13:07. > :13:12.by an extremist group 35 years ago. What was it that drew you in back
:13:13. > :13:17.then? Actually was born into a very secular family, but what drove me
:13:18. > :13:22.honestly was a desire to serve the religion and God. I had such
:13:23. > :13:27.intimacy towards the religion and serving God and unfortunately I was
:13:28. > :13:31.misled. The religious energy in me was violated on the wrong path. I
:13:32. > :13:37.wanted to join something that can help Islam, can help the religion,
:13:38. > :13:43.and unfortunately I went in this direction for a period of my life.
:13:44. > :13:47.How far down that path did you go? I went into periods of radicalisation.
:13:48. > :13:54.I didn't contribute to any business of the crime, I didn't do terrorism.
:13:55. > :13:59.I was dreaming of doing jihad in Afghanistan and I changed completely
:14:00. > :14:06.in eight months to someone who had a lot of hatred in his heart towards
:14:07. > :14:11.others and desire to do a lot of harm thinking it would benefit the
:14:12. > :14:15.religion. What were the biggest influences on you at the time? What
:14:16. > :14:19.made you change? It was a short period of time that you were
:14:20. > :14:24.radicalised. I will tell you exactly what happened from the beginning.
:14:25. > :14:29.The first thing that happened to me when they invited me to join is
:14:30. > :14:34.suppression of my critical thinking. The second was suppression of my
:14:35. > :14:38.human conscience. What the mitigating factor that made me
:14:39. > :14:44.retreat or return was when they asked me to help them in kidnapping
:14:45. > :14:49.a police officer in Cairo in Egypt and dig a grave for him and bury him
:14:50. > :14:56.alive beside the mosque. This was honestly too much for my humanity
:14:57. > :15:01.and my human conscience to accept. This was a moment. It was a change
:15:02. > :15:06.from the theoretical desire to do violence to reality. Now I see a
:15:07. > :15:10.human being and they want to bury him alive. This was a moment of
:15:11. > :15:15.awakening of my human conscience and I started to think. Once I started
:15:16. > :15:20.to think this was critical thinking coming back to me and the process
:15:21. > :15:26.was reversed. How hard was it to remove yourself from all that? It
:15:27. > :15:29.took me another six months or so to be able. What helps me
:15:30. > :15:33.significantly, when I found a friend of mine who offered me different
:15:34. > :15:39.ways of interpretation and thinking within the religion. There are
:15:40. > :15:43.groups who have different ways of thinking, regarding the religion.
:15:44. > :15:47.They were relatively peaceful compared to the other one. This
:15:48. > :15:50.helps me a lot to make the transition. Now you are saying that
:15:51. > :15:58.you think Muslim leaders here are not doing enough to stop extremism.
:15:59. > :16:02.What makes you think that? My answer is absolutely they are not doing
:16:03. > :16:09.enough. Why I think they are not doing enough is simply the current
:16:10. > :16:20.teachings available under the name of charade interpretations, they
:16:21. > :16:27.approve certain principles. -- Soraya -- beating women, stoning
:16:28. > :16:32.women to death, slavery. Declaring war to spread the religion and
:16:33. > :16:37.offering people to convert or you will be killed. The current teaching
:16:38. > :16:41.is still teaching this, then the scholars are having heavy
:16:42. > :16:48.responsibility to provide an alternative form of understanding of
:16:49. > :16:52.the religion that clearly and unambiguously stands against or
:16:53. > :16:56.criticised or denounces such values. If they fail to do so, it will be
:16:57. > :17:00.very hard to consider them moderates because it is so easy to tell you I
:17:01. > :17:04.am a moderate. But if I am a true moderate, I am able to stand in my
:17:05. > :17:12.mosque and say it clearly, loudly and unambiguously that I am against
:17:13. > :17:14.killing a man, beating women, and provide you with an alternative
:17:15. > :17:20.interpretation as a young Muslim that brings a different way of
:17:21. > :17:24.understanding of the religion. I am not doing this. We recently had a
:17:25. > :17:29.case in Glasgow of an imam at the biggest mosque in Scotland. An imam
:17:30. > :17:34.praising on social media and extremist who was praised for
:17:35. > :17:38.committing murder in Pakistan. He says his comments were taken out of
:17:39. > :17:45.context. Is that the sort of thing that worries you? Yes, it is. As
:17:46. > :17:49.long as Islamic scholars do not provide the name or the title of a
:17:50. > :17:56.single approved Islamic book, approved by leading scholars, that's
:17:57. > :18:01.clearly denounces such values that practised in the name of Islam, I
:18:02. > :18:04.believe they have no right to ask the others to call them moderates.
:18:05. > :18:08.They had to provide this first or the name of the book and they have
:18:09. > :18:13.not. They just want everyone to call them moderates and that is it. In
:18:14. > :18:18.this particular case, you rascal Central Mosque came out clearly and
:18:19. > :18:22.said it condemns terrorism of any kind -- Glasgow Central Mosque. Is
:18:23. > :18:28.that in or should they do more? It is not enough. They need to do more.
:18:29. > :18:35.The problem is not terrorism, it is radicalism itself. If you can
:18:36. > :18:39.denounce, for example, the terrorist acts against innocence. This is
:18:40. > :18:42.different from denouncing the hatred, denouncing the symptoms of
:18:43. > :18:46.the principle that you kill someone because he converted from Islam to
:18:47. > :18:51.another religion for example. Once you approve killing of an innocent
:18:52. > :18:56.human soul because he converted from your religion to another, you are
:18:57. > :19:04.really creating the base for other forms of violence. You think they
:19:05. > :19:08.are encouraging it. Yes, by not denouncing this system, it is
:19:09. > :19:11.enough. As a young Muslim, tell me where can I find an Islamic textbook
:19:12. > :19:17.that clearly stands against these principles. Tell me! I am just
:19:18. > :19:25.waiting for the answer from these scholars instead of just telling
:19:26. > :19:30.that Doctor Hamid is exaggerating. Please, tell me matter where we can
:19:31. > :19:36.find this golden textbook that can interpret Islam in a way that stands
:19:37. > :19:39.against killing people and stoning women and against all these
:19:40. > :19:44.atrocities. Where can we find this book? Show it to us. Tell us the
:19:45. > :19:49.name of this book and the problem would be solved if they did. You
:19:50. > :19:52.came to Scotland to talk. You said that First Minister should challenge
:19:53. > :19:56.is like leaders here to condemn extremism. The Muslim Council for
:19:57. > :20:04.Scotland says you don't really know the situation here. Look, the word
:20:05. > :20:07.extremism is a general term. I would prefer that if instead of just
:20:08. > :20:11.telling me I don't know the situation now, the solution is much
:20:12. > :20:18.more simple than best. All they need to do is to go to their mosques next
:20:19. > :20:22.Friday prayer and inviting them to do so and stand in front of their
:20:23. > :20:31.congregations and clearly and unambiguously denounce what I call
:20:32. > :20:36.the ABCs of Islam. Declaring jihad... All I am asking is that
:20:37. > :20:40.instead of telling that, Doctor Hamid does not know Scotland, stand
:20:41. > :20:44.up and denounce the values and I will continue to say, I have no
:20:45. > :20:49.problem with you at all. Why do you think they are not doing that?
:20:50. > :20:52.Because they keep teaching this fundamental part of the religion.
:20:53. > :20:57.Now they are in trouble. They told people that killing people is part
:20:58. > :21:03.of it, beating women is OK, slavery is OK. Now you are asking the same
:21:04. > :21:08.teacher to change his teaching. So they don't want to look hypocritical
:21:09. > :21:12.in front of people, plus there is another factor. Financial support
:21:13. > :21:16.coming from some radical people, as well. We are out of time. Thank you
:21:17. > :21:18.very much for coming in. It is my pleasure and honour, thank you for
:21:19. > :21:18.having me. Joining me now to talk
:21:19. > :21:21.about some of the day's other news is Campbell Gunn,
:21:22. > :21:22.Former Special Adviser to the First Minister of Scotland,
:21:23. > :21:33.and the journalist Katie Grant. Welcome to both of you. Let's go
:21:34. > :21:40.back to the EU debate. It's got noisy, bad-tempered at some point
:21:41. > :21:45.today. Vote Leave was focusing on those net immigration figures. How
:21:46. > :21:50.do you think that plays in Scotland? I think immigration means something
:21:51. > :21:54.different in Scotland because it is not absolutely there with us. If you
:21:55. > :21:59.live in London or the south-east, it is much more present. We talk about
:22:00. > :22:02.immigration in a much more theoretical way than people in the
:22:03. > :22:10.south of England who talk about it in a much more practical way. I
:22:11. > :22:13.think it will have an impact on the Leave campaign, but I don't know
:22:14. > :22:18.that it will have much of an impact up here. We saw a debate on the
:22:19. > :22:24.Scottish Parliament today. There were no party leaders in Scotland
:22:25. > :22:30.supporting Leave. Overwhelming support among MSP is for the Remain
:22:31. > :22:34.case. Is that representative of Scottish voters? No, but the only
:22:35. > :22:40.party leader in Scotland who is in favour of leaving is David Cockburn
:22:41. > :22:47.and he was not elected, so I think that more or less sums up. The party
:22:48. > :22:54.leaders and the party official lines are all in support of remaining. In
:22:55. > :22:59.Scotland, it is an eminently sensible position to be in. I know
:23:00. > :23:03.there are probably about 30, 30 3% of Scots are against it. I think the
:23:04. > :23:08.feeling in Scotland is far more pro-European than it is in the UK as
:23:09. > :23:11.a whole. It is still quite a disconnect between the elected
:23:12. > :23:14.representatives and the number of Scottish people who say they want to
:23:15. > :23:18.leave, if we believe the opinion polls. I don't understand why the
:23:19. > :23:22.Scottish parliament had a vote in first place. Given that everyone has
:23:23. > :23:28.an individual vote, and the debate was highly skewed for Remain, but
:23:29. > :23:36.Campbell is right. We have an election appear very recently.
:23:37. > :23:40.People were elected to very clearly work for Remain and so that is how
:23:41. > :23:46.it pans out. People who are going to vote to leave are still going to. Do
:23:47. > :23:49.you think in the parliament, making it the will of the Scottish
:23:50. > :23:53.Parliament to remain in the EU, makes it even more inevitable that
:23:54. > :23:58.there would be a second independence referendum if the rest of the UK
:23:59. > :24:02.voted to leave? This is a very difficult point. Actually, in
:24:03. > :24:05.practical terms, it is difficult to have a second referendum. Alex
:24:06. > :24:08.Salmond cannot just say, we will have a second referendum and
:24:09. > :24:12.suddenly out of the ether comes a second referendum. It will be much
:24:13. > :24:17.more propagated. If the UK votes to leave, the whole of the UK will
:24:18. > :24:20.leave. And so Scotland leaves with the UK and we haven't even had a
:24:21. > :24:27.referendum by that time. God knows what would happen then. It is no
:24:28. > :24:33.longer Alex Salmond's decision, but Nicola Sturgeon's. It is hardly even
:24:34. > :24:36.hers. It is much more complicated than people imagine, although I
:24:37. > :24:40.agree it is almost inconceivable that, whether a big push for a
:24:41. > :24:45.second referendum, that anyone would stand in the way about. Talking of
:24:46. > :24:49.Alex Salmond, on the BBC debate earlier, he was putting forward a
:24:50. > :24:55.very positive upbeat message about why we should vote to stay. But I
:24:56. > :24:58.wonder, actually, if that is the best way of convincing people.
:24:59. > :25:07.Didn't we see from the last independence referendum that project
:25:08. > :25:11.the works? Perhaps Alex Salmond was correctly critical of Project Fear.
:25:12. > :25:17.There is no sense in him supporting a similar project in this
:25:18. > :25:23.referendum, either. It did work. I don't think it will work this time.
:25:24. > :25:28.I think there were far more factors in the independence referendum
:25:29. > :25:31.result than this. I still think... I don't think there will be the
:25:32. > :25:34.trigger for another referendum because I don't really think, in my
:25:35. > :25:41.heart of hearts, that UK will to leave. I think I have confidence in
:25:42. > :25:46.the imminent good sense of the rest of the people in the rest of the UK.
:25:47. > :25:51.OK. Moving on, although it is linked to the subject of immigration. First
:25:52. > :25:54.Minister Nicola Sturgeon as met an Australian family who have been told
:25:55. > :25:56.they must leave the UK if they cannot meet these rules. Here is
:25:57. > :26:03.what she said earlier. The UK Government is fond of telling
:26:04. > :26:06.us right now that we have the most powerful devolved parliament
:26:07. > :26:09.anywhere in the world, and yet as First Minister I cannot take the
:26:10. > :26:13.decision myself to allow a family that can contribute so much to
:26:14. > :26:20.Scotland to stay here. The wee boy has lived most of his life here. He
:26:21. > :26:22.is a Gaelic speaker and to all expense and purposes, he is
:26:23. > :26:27.Scottish. It will be tragic to see them leave. I hope they can stay
:26:28. > :26:32.because they have a lot to contribute. Katie, why do you think
:26:33. > :26:36.this case has captured the public's imagination? They are an attractive
:26:37. > :26:43.family, they came because of the homecoming advertisements. The
:26:44. > :26:45.little boy is a Gaelic speaker. Does that make a difference? It
:26:46. > :26:52.shouldn't. He clearly speaks English. I think this is a very
:26:53. > :26:57.difficult thing, but I also think that emotion is not often the best
:26:58. > :27:01.way of dealing with these things. There will be other families who are
:27:02. > :27:06.in exactly the same position. Is Nicola Sturgeon going to meet all of
:27:07. > :27:11.them? There is something slightly uncomfortable about the way this
:27:12. > :27:15.case has been argued. I think this is a very particular case. The
:27:16. > :27:20.family did come here under a scheme jointly run by the Home Office and
:27:21. > :27:26.the Scottish Government. They changed the rules halfway through
:27:27. > :27:31.their stay here. They have family here. I think their ancestors are
:27:32. > :27:35.Scottish. The wee boy, as you said, has spent most of his life here. His
:27:36. > :27:41.friends and cousins are here. There probably are other cases that might
:27:42. > :27:45.deserve equal publicity. This is a pretty particular case. I don't
:27:46. > :27:48.think there are many as extreme as this. We had the First Minister
:27:49. > :27:54.saying it is crazy that she cannot make that decision. Is it partly to
:27:55. > :27:57.highlight the fact that immigration is a reserved power? Everything is
:27:58. > :28:02.at the moment highlighting something else. It is not just about itself,
:28:03. > :28:09.if you see what I mean. I think there is some of this. Clearly, the
:28:10. > :28:13.family want to stay here, but I think, yes, I don't think many
:28:14. > :28:16.politicians do something without an ulterior motive. This would never
:28:17. > :28:22.have come to the public knowledge, had it not been for Angus Robertson
:28:23. > :28:26.yesterday raising it at PMQs and then Ian Blackford today with an
:28:27. > :28:30.emergency question and the UK Government seeming to back down very
:28:31. > :28:36.sharpish. It seems as if the family I now going to be able to stay and
:28:37. > :28:40.that is a very good thing. It does seem from the UK immigration will
:28:41. > :28:44.see movement on this, briefly? Probably. Most of the viewers and
:28:45. > :28:48.certainly myself, we don't know the full facts of this case. We only
:28:49. > :28:50.know what we have been told. Thank you so much for coming in.
:28:51. > :28:54.I'll be back on Tuesday after the bank holiday.
:28:55. > :29:08.Once upon a time, there was a great and glorious king.
:29:09. > :29:16.But they would all see him destroyed.
:29:17. > :29:21.MUSIC: Kings Of The Wild Frontier by Adam The Ants
:29:22. > :29:24.How much pain before you get what you want?!
:29:25. > :29:29.They will write stories about this place of wonder.
:29:30. > :29:37.With so many claims being made on both sides,
:29:38. > :29:40.the EU referendum might appear confusing.
:29:41. > :29:45.BBC Reality Check investigates the facts behind these claims,